Leyndell's Hidden History | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 11
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Elden Ring Lore: The City of Leyndell is old indeed. We look deep underground to reconstruct its ruined and nameless past.
"The Eternal City of Leyndell", Part V of the series Elden Empires, Risen and Felled:
• The Godfrey and Marika...
#eldenring #eldenringlore #eternalcity #tarnishedarchaeologist
Cited content: u/NamelessSinger
Gameplay footage/music credit: Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, Dark Souls, Bandai Namco and FromSoftware.
Music samples: Elden Lords - Ljós Detta, Alex Roe; Pvrification, Megaloschemos II.
Creative Commons and stock attributions:
Images:
Xenophon statue, Gerd Eichmann; Via Egnatia, Carole Raddato; maps, Elden Ring Walkthrough Team.
Video samples:
Rome, luca costa. Nineveh and hoplites, Fall of Civilizationos, ep 13. The Assyrians - Empire of Iron. To learn about the real Xenophon and the destruction of Nineveh, check out their video:
• 13. The Assyrians - Em...
Contents of the Video
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0:00 Intro
0:50 Xenophon's Anabasis
3:45 Chapter 1: Leyndell's Mystery Gate
5:53 Chapter 2: Leyndell, Eternal City
11:45 Chapter 3: An Eternal Empire
17:15 Conclusions - Ігри
Absolutely Seismic video dude, blowing my mind here. What a treat to the lore community.
We respect this pun.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist It felt right
@@tarnishedarchaeologist groundbreaking even
@@tarnishedarchaeologist It was earth shattering.
Thanks for turning me on to this channel SmoughTown! Love all you lore sleuths ❤
How ? Just how had seemingly everybody missed that the Nameless Eternal City might have been the hole in Leyndell ? Just wow.
Your work is phenomenal !
It does look visibly wrecked like it the whole thing just fell out of the sky, or rather from the surface. A chunk of the city just tumbled down and the only stuff that lives there are animals surveying the wreckage.
I think everyone assumed it was the eternal city astel destroyed and took the sky from
@@pirata2027 Those two things are not really mutually exclusive though.
I KNOW RIGHT?? It's freaking my bean!
@@pirata2027 I wonder if this is why Radahn is holding back the stars. Because Astel went through Leyndell?
"The eternal city is exactly where the missing part of the Leyndell's lower city should be." How dare you drop another mind shattering revelation on my feeble brain. I love it, great work.
And how he just drops it like a commnon fact...
As someone currently working on my Anthropology degree, these videos have been going hand in hand with the classes/lectures I’ve been taking and it’s SO fun!!!
Glad you enjoy. Keep up the hard work.
Working on my Anthro degree also and it works perfectly. Fromsoft have a great appreciation for cultural studies.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Hey, do you think the star pattern/design/effect on the walls in the Divine Tower of Limgrave (while going up the elevator) have to do with the Nox? It looks fairly similar to the underground night skies, and it seems like far too much of a coincidence that there would be another star pattern like that without being related to the Nox.
It’s a little different (on the walls as opposed to a floating sky), but it evokes the same celestial feeling IMO.
Myasaki is a social scientist after all
It's crazy how much actual history I have learned because of Elden Ring lore and the content creators trying to decipher it!
History is fucking rad, fellow Tarnished! So many things from fiction are inspired by real-world history and a lot of what's actually happened in reality is wilder than a lot of fiction too!
You'd be suprised at how close uncovering Fromsoft game lore can mirror real world archaeology and history. Unlike math or science where you can set up a hypothesis and then perform experiments to prove or disprove that idea, in history, it isn't really possible to just go and ask someone "Hey what was the fall of rome like?" for obvious reasons. You need to take what evidence has survived the wearing away of time, try to figure out what is clearly biased in some way, either from political interests or simple ignorance due to lack of information, what is genuinely honest, and then try to piece everything together, using context to explain things that lack evidence, and determine "What most likely happened".
It's really fun to delve into the world of historical theories, it's just I'd assume for most people, learning about bland names and dates in public school where you relearn the same few subjects over and over makes it seem way less interesting. You just need to find what area of history you like the most.
Personally, it wasn't until I finally got out of the "relearning American history for the upteenth time" in American public schools, and discovered how absolutely wild ancient Babylonian myths are that I finally realized it could be fun.
It real shows the love and attention to detail miyazaki and the team that is FromSoftware have for their games and our history that helped to inspire them.
Ya it’s crazy how THIS is how you learn. Smdh. 🙈
This is actually the secret to why his videos are so damn good. It is VERY similar to the channel The History of the Universe. That channel is a beautiful mix of History, science, and Philosophy. in which this channel replaces the science part with lore
Damn, before I discovered your channel I knew FromSoft was very detail oriented in their environmental design, but this kind of shit is next-level. The both literal and figurative world building is amazing. Thank you so much for exposing all of these details that would go over most people's heads, never would have pieced any of this together myself.
The road between Leyndell and northern Liurnia is now known as Bellum Highway, and its current iteration connected the capital of the Erdtree to the Academy of Raya Lucaria before the greatbridge was broken. Considering that two separate wars were waged between these two factions and that 'Bellum' is Latin for 'War', I believe the current iteration of the highway was built after the Eternal City of Nokstella was banished underground.
Agreed, it was just built over top of a pre-existing major artery.
You have no idea how much you're blessing the Elden Ring Lore community with your videos. It amazes me how much you can learn from all the architecture and just looking around your surroundings. Keep blessing us with these awesome videos bro!
Yes Please!
How dare you not list the architectural features of Sellia in depth, I was so excited and then you tore it away from me
You might get your wish next time
Another piece of evidence connecting Lyndell to the eternal city below is the giant limbless Gargoyles. This unusual enemy is found primarily in these two locations.
Yup!
Edit: Wrote this before getting very far into the video, so now I feel silly for pointing out the obvious
I would like to just point out that much of Elden Ring's topological and geological features, particularly around Liurnia and Altus, suggest a massive seismic upheaval that raised large portions of the map to higher strata and/or forced others either down to surface level or beneath the surface entirely. The upper areas of Liurnia, as well as Altus are situated on cliffs or buttes, with sudden drops around them that often contain debris from manmade structures that we see the remnants of above. Almost like large portions of The Lands Between were suddenly and violently shifted up or down at some point. That seems to be the case with Leyndell as well.
perhaps that was the "shattering" of the Lands between in a literal sense. i would not be suprised if shattering the Elden Ring would have such a dramatic effect on the rest.
@@schokoladenjunge1 Yeah, perhaps... Looking briefly (there might be more things pointing to this idea too) at the map description of Mt. Gelmir:
"Map of Mt. Gelmir and environs.
Mt. Gelmir, which houses the Volcano Manor at its summit, is characterized by sheer cliffs and ominous skies.
These qualities only became more pronounced after the Shattering."
hmmm.
@@hprd2229Well, that’s fascinating, and makes a lot of sense. Only the latest massive upheaval, given the previous Eternal Cities as well.
It's been in front of our eyes the whole time, even in the name of the region, "Liurnia of the Lakes". Lakes, plural, even though what we see of it is basically a single lake, which isn't even really a lake, more like a swamp. It's description even acknowledges the landmass is sinking : "With its shallow waters and vast wetlands, the region of Liurnia is beset with the gradual sinking of most of its landmass. With its forests perpetually blanketed in fog, eerie sounds of bells can be heard in the distance." Another evidence of it is the sunken Academy Gate Town.
@@hprd2229 never thought to look to see if the maps had descriptions, ffs
Great video! I’d also point out that the broken gargoyles are only found in to places: Leyndell and the Nameless Eternal City
Indeed. In other words, Leyndell and Leyndell
One of gargoyles in the nameless city has a black corpsewax axe embedded in it. One might start to see how the Nox would harbor resentment against Marika.
EDIT: It's not a black corpsewax axe. My bad.
@@Xandros999 to me it sounds like marika is a mimic tear created by the nox, the mimic's veil is even called marika's mischief implying she is a mimic, same with law of regression it reveals mimicry and returns her to the original form
@@Xandros999 I am new to this channel so could you explain why that is? What connection is there between the Gargoyles and the Nox, other than that they both hail from Eternal Cities?
@@AnthonyDoesUA-cam There isn't any connection apart from that. Black corpsevax is what glues together the gargoyles that serve Malekith, Marika's executioner. As such it's pretty much a smoking gun for Marika's involvement.
I'm so excited!!!
You fall into a very small group of creators that inspire actual feelings of glee when I see you've posted a new video! Thank you for the work you put into them!
I get most excited for the Archeologist and Quelaag.
Side note:
If anyone hasn't seen the Hawkshaw video going into depth about the colors in Elden ring, it is phenomenal.
Man figured out how to merge a game we already played with a history lesson and has us waiting with bated breath. It's criminal how few subs he has.
@@seanconnors1613 same!
@@hardgay7537 YOU GOT DAMN RIGHT!
@@seanconnors1613 @Quelaag for the rambles, this man for the concise bits.
You are the only creator that is making any progress with the story.
The value of your input cannot be overstated!
I hope you take a look at Malenia, and finally find out how many times she has bloomed, and whether “true” goddess of rot is something else entirely.
Thank you!
That is insane. How have we missed this. That's amazing! I love this
Your research, observations and ability to link the game's architecture back to real world historical precedents is honestly amazing. You're easily one of the best lore hunters in the game right now, and I only heard of you about two months ago.
How could it be that I figured out on my own that Nokron and Nokstella both fit the topography of the upper world and never thought that the Nameless Eternal City would be the same? Well, kudos to you!
Funny story: I'm Italian and me and my friends frequently joked saying "Roma è l'unica vera Città Eterna" (Rome is the only true Eternal City). I then imagined the Nox speaking in modern roman dialect, which to me is the somewhat equivalent of cockney accent in English.
This was a really cool comment to read. Thanks for sharing. I love hearing insights of the game from people outside the US. I used to speak a little Italian but lost it. Now I’m depressed but I really wanna get back into speaking it. I want to be motivated again and your comment kinda helped :) thanks.
I get the feeling that Leyndell wasn't the name that the third eternal city had, until its conquerors renamed it; doesn't have the same scheme as the other two.
Also it makes more sense for the third city to be nameless (in addition to it now being uninhabited) because its old name was stripped and replaced.
Nokdell
Nokville, Tennessee
Stunning discovery. I'd never considered the old Leyndell nucleus to actually *be* the Nameless Eternal City. It makes so much sense, and completely recontextualizes Marika, the Black Knives, the Nox and Numen apparent connection, the growth of Leyndell through the ages, and the succession of ages itself. Great food for thought.
On a semi-related note: what do you think of the crypt chair relief design (the "notochord" as you well noticed) and its resemblance to a certain embodiment of Order?
Stay tuned for next time! We’ve got some things to say about that chair crypt design.
For whatever my opinion is worth, I believe this channel is one of the best in terms of Elden Ring content. It's a crime that you don't have more subscribers.
The more of these I watch the more it feels like you're reading directly from Miyazaki's stolen design documents and the less it feels like any other channel of this type was even making a dent by reading item descriptions. It's actually revelatory.
Happy to be here, among a few enthusiasts, your work is incomparable, your way of narrating through the setting honors the way From wanted to make art
ER really turned my 35+ years of gaming experience on its head. I walked by the buildings in Leyndell half noticing their similarity to Sellia and the eternal cities but just chalked it up to the typical video game technique of reusing assets. However, this video along with the other one discussing the fortified manor/colosseum point out there's at least three distinct building styles in Leyndell and all purposefully quartered off in their own areas. This isn't the first one either, your other vids have shown what I wrote off to be typical video game development time saving practices to actually be important parts of the world building. I'd almost write it off as accidental but it all just fits together so well.
Of all the lore UA-camrs your channel is the most compelling and backed by actual real world principles. Thanks for taking the time to make these!
I cannot believe how easily I batted an eye at the fact the half-constructed Gargoyles only show up in two places: Leyndell and the nameless eternal city...This is a fantastic video and is highly insightful
It’s really interesting that you can see erdtree leaves falling down in the “underground” leyndell eternal city.
I’m so glad you decided to do this series and piecing together all the archeological evidence Fromsoft has left about
It’s helping me fill I the puzzle pieces I was missing
16:50 this shot also made me notice that the very land itself was taken down into the depths with the city. Past the bounds of the actual grounds of the city the floor just drops off into the abyss below the world, but the eternal cities are all on shelves held up above the void. Really cool detail, I'd love to know more about what lives in the abyss and/or what caused it? I feel like it would have been easy to just make cave walls around the cities to keep you in them, but to actually make huge chasms under the entire world must mean something (from a dev point of view). Knowing what FromSoft is like, I am sure they didn't do this without consideration
Wow. This discovery might be the most important yet, and I can't wait to see how all of the implications are pulled together. What this could mean for our understanding of the narrative and timeline of Elden Ring... Bravo guys. Bravo.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the implications of this, but it all makes so much sense! You truly have the best analysis of Elden Ring lore out there and I can't wait to both replay the game with this new knowledge in mind and see what else you find!
This might explain why the Nox bear a symbol on their capes that the Godrick Knight Armor identifies as "two-headed war axe, an emblem of the golden lineage", visible on the jousting shield and the cape of that armor as well as their gilded shields. Just like the Beast once was the sign of Serosh, the golden lineage must have apropiated this Nox symbol as well, likely taken from the oldest part of Leyndell, the Eternal City, to establish further continuity. It only vaguely looks like an axe anyways
Every single episode completely blows my mind and makes me restructure my entire understanding of the world of elden ring. this is phenomenal lore content.
I am still very curious about the nature of the power that took the cities underground. for the night cities, I would assume its just astel's teleportation, for the lendyell, I would assume some man made cave in, perhaps done to stop the advancing enemy forces. Either way we don't need to understand how it happend, just that it did.
In the lore, Astel is a creation of the Eternal City. The creature that is Astel is a metamorphosis that spawns many Astels. The Greater Will was said to have done this act I believe.
@@LloydsSky9 There is no mention anywhere that Astel was a creation of the eternal city. What happened definitely suggests that that is not the case.
@@tinminator8905 Nor is it stated Astel did. It is implied that the the Nox envoked the ire of the greater will. How the cities ended up underground is obviously through some catastrophic cataclysm, I recon the Elden Beast would have more power to do this than Astel
@@tinminator8905 Also, look up what videos have come out about Astel. Astel is a Metamorphosis from the FallingStar Beast (It's based off of a real world Insect)
@@LloydsSky9 Yes it is stated that Astel did it. It is is stated that he leveled the eternal city and took away their night sky in the remembrance of the naturalborn.
Yes, he is inspired by an insect larva but that does not mean that we should attribute the insects traits in real life to its Elden Ring counterpart. It could just be a visual inspiration. You are mixing up what is confirmed lore with small pieces of evidence.
Sorry if someone brought this up already, but isn't in these "lower Leyndell quarters" above ground where we find a deathbed companion dress on a bed inside a building? That is interesting seeing how directly below in the Nameless Eternal City we know that Fia is with Godwyn's body.
Very good point.
Presumeably Fia made her way here from Roundtable Hold during her investigation into finding where Godwyn's corpse is, and it seems she was accompanied at least that far by her adoptive father, Lionel the Lionhearted: we find his armor in the same building and in the same bed, as well as what I assume is his charred corpse.
I wish we knew more about Lionel and what happened to him. Given the state of his body maybe he was wounded by one of the broken statues, the Omenkiller right outside the building where you find him, or the Tree Spirit that's not far away in the same quarter of the city (all these enemies can breathe fire). Hell, I'd even suspect he tried to fight Fortissax (not sure how he'd reach Fortissax) since as valiant and skilled of a knight as Lionel is I could see him losing to a dragon's fire breath or fried by lightning in his distinctive armor (whose weakest protection is against lighting) and Fia tried to get him above ground to find help but he succumbed to his wounds.
Whenever I see you post, I drop everything else to watch. Thank you for the awesome lessons and insight
All this additional lore baked into the very earth is insane! So Marika is of the Numen race, which we know are the same as the Nox, or at least their ancestors. I kind of assumed that, when Marika took up the Elden Ring and turned to the Greater Will, she abandoned her people. This evidence suggests, however, that maybe she didn’t and instead for a time the early Erdtree faith coexisted with Night Sky worship and other Numen might have followed her to the capital. Then perhaps certain members of the Nox created the finger-slayer blade in secret and only after they used it to slay a Two-fingers were they seen as a threat and the Eternal Cities sunk. The Nox quarter in Leyndell could have been kept because its inhabitants were supposedly adherents to Erdtree worship, an assumption that wouldn’t be proven wrong until the Night of the Black Knives.
Thanks for these videos- your analysis has shifted the foundations of my understanding so many times now. Eagerly awaiting the next piece. Excellent work!
Your videos always blow me away, but this one takes the cake. You bring up these details that I may have noticed, but would never have pieced together in such a complete way. Very VERY looking forward to the continuation.
You are a treasure, it's insane how detail oriented you are, seriously kudos, I'm going through your Playlist right now and so many mind blowing revelations
So much of elden ring is telling us to our face, and yet so many of us are blind. Grace has truly left some of our eyes.
Another one in a streak of consistently great videos. It is really hard to imagine these connections aren't there with a purposeful design. The Nameless City-Leyndell really is a neat theory.
Please keep up the fantastic work you are an awesome addition to this community. Very much enjoy all of your videos. Thanks for doing what you do. Cheers!
Thanks!
Unbelievable work. Putting pieces together that are so clearly there, but I’ve seen few others making such connections. Completely changing the way I see the story.
Always a pleasure seeing your videos appear in the feed!
I have watched, probably, hundreds of lore videos about souls games, but I have to thank you or should I say, curse you for keeping me literally hours watching your videos one after the other, I have some left but, the music choices and the dissected, eloquent and pieced together narrative...
Love it, subscribed.
Your content is incredible. Seriously the best Elden Ring lore channel rn.
I love that you always start these videos with a cold cut of a lesson about the real world parallel of the subject of the video, makes the lore feel so much more real
Phenomenal work. I look forward to these videos more than any other Elden Ring content.
Great video mate, thank you! Please keep it up! 🙏🏾
Wow man. These are truly fascinating discoveries that you show us to learn about. I'm waiting impatiently to see what's more to come. Thanks for the content!!
The consistency that you manage to blow my mind is unreal
I once got curious myself about that giant gap between Leyndell and its main gate, so I tried getting a good look from a few different vantage points. From most angles it’s covered in fog, but one angle I found made it clear there’s water there, just like the map indicates. I theorized that the defenders of Leyndell had flooded it as a desperate defensive measure during the Shattering, but I hadn’t made the connection that the remains would be below in the Deeproot Depths until I saw this video. Great detective work here.
Would love to see your archeology in Lothric, Lordran, and Drangleic.
Good chance that is coming, someday…
We can't forget the biases of those rediscovering history either. Places that have been denied existing are later found. The human element is always going to be an issue beyond memory alone. Records are locked away, destroyed or changed. Even Elden Ring or FromSoftware games are made with bias it's perspective on things that don't match with history itself, but told from a occult perspective for the most part. It's fun unraveling, but crucial to keep that in mind.
Thank you for uploading so frequently, your videos are very well researched.
I don't comment on youtube videos much since I watch them on my tv, but your channel and this video was great and I really appreciate your work! Especially love the tie in with Xenophon.
I loved playing this game upon release! It was so magical and just what I needed at the time. The lore in it is so vast… thank you for the quality video! ♥️
This absolutely blows the lid open on so much stuff. I knew that architecture played a role in these games but had no idea how deep it went in Elden Ring. Great work!
I literally dreamed about this last night. Had a feeling this is where we'd end up. Great work my man.
this is my straight up favorite elden ring lore vid. my view of the story shifted like 15 fuckin times upon first watch.
You have the best and most entertaining lore videos on ER, I can not believe my luck in discovering your channel!
Very interesting video, as always. I'm both impressed with the sleuthing and with FromSoft for putting all of this detail in the game.
Ha! I've been looking for tiny details that much up with above/below ground maps almost since launch, can't believe I never spotted this one! Good stuff.
Specifically the Leyndell chasm. Seems like the most obvious thing in the video, but it never even entered my mind to connect with anything
Your and Quelaag's videos are the lore vids i anticipate the most. I await them patiently, but fervently . Thanks for the work you put in.
As said beforehand. As architect hearing your archaeological and historical analysis is absolutely perfect. Really looking forward to seeing the next episodes
Another stunning masterpiece, it's Amazing how entertaining, relaxing and Extreme accurate and "logical" these videos are
Man I discovered your work via SmoughTown that kept citing your videos. The view you have of Elden Ring lore and world is a real gem. Thanks for the content.
We never get to see Marika in action but her control over the Erdtree is godlike. She used it's roots to make massive sinkholes under all who defied her. It also looks like she soloed most of those root impaled fire giants. The closest we get to see is her son's death blight that impales us after build up but here's hoping we get a erd incantation in the DLC.
You are a beast! These caught me off guard and started a bit slow, but man I am glad I held on. These are diamonds
Dude your videos are mindblowing, I can’t believe I never noticed the hole in leyndell lining up with the nameless eternal city, plus that being godwyn’s burial place oh my wordddd
I would adore a deep dive into the architecture of Elden ring, these videos are so unique and wonderful I’d watch just about anything
It's such a pleasure listening to your analyses.
The mere title is quite provocative, but the content within far exceeds it. This channel's ability to point at what's exactly in front of everyone and then following suit with a cogent interpretation is quite amazing.
Utterly mind-blowing. Seriously well done!
My mind was blown when you explained that the eternal cities were literally driven underground. I had always taken it to mean just the people were banished underground and then they had to rebuild. It explains so much of the stranger architecture you find like the aqueduct hanging out of the rock ceiling. Subscribing now!
Youve quickly became 1 of my favorite lore tubers. I wouldve loved to see youre takes on Bloodborne and Souls
I am thoroughly addicted to your lore videos right now.
Great video as usual, pls do not stop this beautiful work 🫡
Awesome Video Great Skills detailing road systems and the Eternal Cities
I have nothing to add, but commenting for the algorithm anyway because liking and subscribing just isn't enough for this amazing channel
This really hammers home their environmental storytelling capabilities. So much has clicked for me because of this.
your videos deserve so much more praise, i know for a fact that there are elden ring lore creators out there who use your video but dont give you the credit you deserve. Keep it up man this is obsurdley great content.
I seriously need more, this is the best lorehunting i have found on elden ring thank you so much
More to come!
One of the best lore (if not THE BEST) channels, indeed!!!
This was seriously good, thanks for your work
Absolutely brilliant content!!! You people are awesome!!
This actually crazy like I’ve followed the lore for so long and like this is a crazy revelation to me how could we have not noticed this before 💀 good video ❤
I found this to be a mesmerizing approach to exploring the lore of Elden Ring. Well done. Subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
I really enjoy the discoveries you share in each video and how much I learn.
Smashing work Maidenless Tarnished!
You just blew my mind. this game goes deeper every time i lokk into it
This is some insane lore man, thank you!
I am amazed how interesting, inspiring and informative your videos are! The game doesn't share these information at all, you can just rush through area not noticing all of these complex connections and hidden stories. Great content ❤ more please 🥺
Bro, the depth and richness of your videos have me totally engaged, it's hard for me to pay attention for so long, but this series is just wow
Glad you like them!
I don't even wait to finish the video anymore, as soon as the next one starts *aggressively hits like button*
This was deep. Well done!
Another amazing video, thank you
A "saint's statue" can be found in front of the elevator to the Nokstella River Basin site of grace. Another thing worth pointing out is the masonry leading up to the Eastern Ramparts of Leyndell is different than the walls themselves, and is also lined with saint's statues. You've already pointed out the Nox/Sellian floral designs on the buildings, but I think it's also worth reiterating how not-so-Valiant Gargoyles can be found in abundance in the nameless Eternal City as well as Leyndell and how Maliketh's "Black Blade Kindred" are also these ancient gargoyles.
As always, nice video, and I'm in awe of the speed you're able to produce them. Nicely done
Alright so what is the timeline here? It only makes sense for the Nox to gain/create their false night skies _after_ their banishment underground as they'd have the real thing prior to that, and if we assume the Swordstress set description to be in chronological order that fits too. And the city needs to have that false sky by the time Astel arrives and wrecks it because we find the stolen sky in Astel's lair (and the Yelough Anix version shows this is not some "space cobweb" they just create by themselves). So we have Banishment->Sky->Astel, right?
Except the Shattering supposedly led to "abandonment by the Greater Will" so the banishment occurring during/after the war is a bit iffy, and more importantly the Starscourge Greatsword claims Radahn earned that title "in his youth". And the corresponding sword monument names Sellia meaning it already existed as such at the time. So how does that line up with Radahn's participation in the Shattering war(s?) seeing as the Starscourge victory _should_ have prevented Astel's attack had it already occurred.
Which means the order of events according to this video would be Black Knives->Siege of Leyndell->Banishment of Leyndell Eternal City->creation of false sky->Astel attacks->Radahn, still "in his youth", conquers the stars->Radahn fights in more Shattering wars? Also Radahn and Ranni need to become traitors to Morgott at some point but Ranni's supposed to be dead at this point and seems to be unaware of Radahn's influence on star-written fate. That seems like an awfully long time for a world that's supposedly locked in a brutal civil war/succession crisis as well as fundamentally fucked thanks to the Elden Ring itself being shattered.
Edit: the Ainsel River Map also says those underground regions are "the grave of civilizations that flourished before the Erdtree" - civilisationS plural i.e. most likely including the Eternal Cities. _Before_ the Erdtree, therefore definitely before the Shattering.
No reason to twist ourselves in knots. It appears as though the Nameless ET persisted above ground long after the other two were banished.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist But that is precisely the one which got wrecked by Astel! So it persisted longer, somehow got banished in a very similar fashion but post-Shattering, had time to deploy its own fake sky afterwards and then got destroyed by Astel all before Radahn conquered the stars. How does that work out?
@@Photoloss bit of a late reply, but one potential possibility is that, given how Astel in the Japanese description is a spawn of Darkness, could have been summoned by the despair the Nox felt when they were banished underground, and this wouldn’t conflict with Radahn stopping the stars since Astel didn’t crash-land into the banished city, but was unintentionally summoned instead.
We often find Fallingstar and Full-grown Fallingstar beasts at crater impact sites, but we don’t ever encounter an Astel near a crater site save for one in an underground (not sure how an impact crater can be underground) dungeon in the Mountaintop of the Giants. Yes, there is cut content showing an Astel crashing down on Radahn’s arena, but it’s difficult to use cut content to prove something in the game’s canon lore. This is also the same kind of cut content that labeled Radahn as a giant-killer rather than a starscourge.
Last Protagonist did a video about Astel, and he theorized based on the item descriptions of the spell Eternal Darkness and of Astel’s Remembrance in their Japanese descriptions, that the Nox were banished underground and that their despair (aka their “darkness”) caused Astel to be summoned.
So the summoning of Astel and the theft of the Leyndell Eternal City’s sky could still occur even after Radahn stopped the stars from moving.
Remember that Astel can teleport, and summon portals. And Radahn would have only been able to stop stars from falling from the sky. So a potential timeline of events is that in his youth Radahn stops the stars from moving and therefore falling from the sky and hitting the Earth. The Black Knives happen, and during/after the Shattering the Leyndell Eternal City is banished underground. The Nox have their night sky built, and later Astel is summoned by their despair (either from being banished or having Godwin’s body buried so close to them) levels the city, and steals their night sky before teleporting to underground Liurnia, close to an area that was used to worship the stars and moon in the past.
This is my personal take on it anyways.
Holy shit dude you blew my mind like 3 different times this video, great research my bro
wow... amazing work man, you have just given another depth in the historical value amd significance of the sunken eternal cities... it shows how the Golden order both symbolicaly and geographically dominated all... no wonder the eternal cities ended up down there.