Why Bass Drum Beater Type ALMOST Doesn't Matter...
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 лют 2019
- → Conquer one-handed hihat 16ths at 80bpm in 5 simple steps. Download my FREE “Secret to Hihat 16ths” guide! the-non-glamorous-drummer.myk...
It’s easy to get hung up on beater choice. After all, we drummers can feel a huge difference between beaters of various materials and weights. But can the audience tell the difference? Furthermore, can the microphones tell a difference?? Well, today we’re going to find out by comparing three common beater types. We’ll also compare three different miking combinations, each of which will bring a different listening perspective to the experiment. So here we go! Let’s compare a Vater wool bomber beater with a standard felt sided and plastic sided beater that came with my bass drum pedal. Wool versus felt versus plastic… Also, a special note to any of you who are actually reading this description… :) Comment below with any other video ideas you have involving beater testing. I think it’s pretty interesting comparing volume of various beaters as well as feel. Maybe a topic for a sequel.
I hope you enjoyed the video! If you’re new to the channel, be sure to click the SUBSCRIBE button before you go!
Follow me on Instagram!
/ thenonglamorousdrummer
Contact me here at my email! It’s always great to get mail.
stephen@thenonglamorousdrummer.com
I disagree. I've listened with both my eyes open, and closed. I'm hearing a big difference. Maybe it's subjective. 🤷♂️
Agreed. It changed the attack vs body ratio. Also...different beaters give different feel. That can make a huge difference to your playing
I think it depends on the tuning
A higher tuned Jazz Bass sound vastly different with a big felt beater compared to plastic. What do you think?
Exactly. And it doesn't even need to be that much higher, just as long it's more open bass drum tone. With that kind of drum and played off the head, the beater makes a big difference.
As I've said elsewhere, we forget that the bass drum is a MUSICAL instrument. I like a nice melodic TONE, not the dull thud of a cardboard box. I put a 3 inch wide piece of white felt under the heads 1/3 of the way from the left (front head, from the right - batter head) and tune both heads to the same pitch (said pitch tuned at each lug). I tighten the heads just above a loose "whappy" sound, then tune them up just beyond loosing the loose "whap" sound. I usually tune my drums to the key of "C" so they are almost always in tune with the band. I even try to get my cymbals in "C" when I purchase them new (Zildjians, of course). I use a hard felt beater.
That's PART of being a "Musical Drummer".
As a recording/mixing engineer (and also drummer), not sure I totally agree with your conclusion. Yes, the tone/pitch/general timbre of the drum isn't gonna change; obviously the shell and (mostly) the head used will make the biggest differences. That said, there is a distinct envelope shape to each beater type, contributed to by the significant volume difference between each.
The wool has a softer (slower) transient and a louder post-stroke resonance.
The felt is tighter (faster attack), and (when gain-normalized) has a less resonant body. (low pass click, some drum)
The plastic is even more transient and less body, PLUS a much higher frequency stroke noise. (bright click, no drum)
For a live gig, Im with you 100%. Unless you're playing a very resonant jazz kick, the volume/compression on the board can render your beater choice pointless.
But if you're doing session work and spending time to get your kit sound, the right beater can make your kick fit in your mix a lot more easily without post-processing.
Then again, re-tuning tighter can probably get you clickier results, but at least this way you dont have to change the pitch of the drum in that pursuit. Just my 2c
Some great points here. I definitely think Stephen was coming from a more “live sound” approach and how it will effect that (and probably most people that watch this might not be pro drummers and only play in “live situation” situations). But I agree, in the studio - this stuff dramatically effects transient shape and can make getting a “particular sound” a lot easier if you match the tuning of the drum, with the beater type, to match the end result you are shooting for.
100% agree, there is a difference to my engineer's ears too, and I also think in a live it would be lost on the audience, but I also think in a full recorded mix most listeners would not be able to hear any difference. What I do think, and I believe this is the most important thing to any music production, is that choosing a beater that makes the drummer the most comfortable will result in the best performance, and in the end that will always sound better
True af.
Of course there's a difference in sound and rebound of felt, fluffy felt, wood, and plastic.
There's a difference between regular felt beaters and the felt beater side of a pearl quad beater.
Just like there's a difference between wood, nylon, and aluminum tip sticks (and different wood too)
Its density and hardness that contribute to the different characteristics of the sound.
Unless you've already damaged your hearing from playing too loud and heavy.
Or burying the beater. That muffles it immediately.
This proved what my intuition has told me.. slight differences yes of course but as far as what my foot likes (and I love ) is the soft 'bomber' on my 20x18" bass drum.. I use the Vic Firth one and yes they 'flatten' a bit and need occasional rotation for the softest sound/feel.
On my 24x18 kick, I have an ambassador on batter and reso with just a felt strip on the batter and it's tuned crazy high. I can say with surety that the beater makes a massive difference on my sound. Also I prefer recording with just 1 or 2 room mics, which could also be why beater choice is important for me.
Keep it comfy, man. You're rockin the groove in those slippers.
With the plastic, there's more high end attack. Which i really need for recording metal so that i don't have to boost high mids to +35 dB
From my experience I like having the hard plastic beater and extra attack there regardless of the style of music just for the simple fact it's always easier to dial down the mid-range than to turn it up several dozen decibels to get some good slap and articulation for the fast grooves
@@Leonnoelmusic Yeah, i still have to turn up the high shelf by 6 dB, but like you said it's way easier with plastic beaters.
I have a Bomber for the acoustic shows and the felt/plastic DW one for the rest.
That’s really all you need.
I did get one of those Low Boy beaters with the leather disc and man does that have punch!
But it’s a one trick pony since if you need anything else, it can’t provide it.
Great video, brother! This should help many of us make a more informed decision on what to use and when.
Love the moccasins man!
Use an SM58 inside the kick drum. You'll be surprised how much of a difference there is between the plastic and felt side.
Finally, good content in my feed
I like you were just going ham at 3:42 with the plastic side. And those doubles in the linear fill??? Holy shit.
True, all sound good. I think those subtle choices add up at the end of a recording though (as long as they're not paralyzing you from creating). Plastic has awesome attack for metal, felt side sounds like rock/funk soft beater sounds like it'd be perfect for jazz/folk/vibey stuff. Nice to think about so you have a great starting tone come mix time
Wood is even better for metal
Great video SC! Wpukd a condenser work on batter side kick? Wohkd there be too mucn of "mechal" noise?
Informative vid, Stephen. I notice you use a heel-down foot technique. If this is your usual style then I'm glad I'm not the only one!
I love your videos man
It absolutely makes an audible difference!
I think the reason that you aren’t hearing a difference in this case is to do with tuning and head choice. On a bass drum with unmuffled heads (ambassadors, G1s), you don’t have the suppression of the pitch and boom of the drum. As well as that, the higher you tune a bass drum, the more that comes out of it (to a point). So with an open bass drum with unmuffled heads in not a crazy high tuning, but medium-high, you’ll hear a huge difference!
hi sir.. I wanna understand the importance of 8 on a hand... if I wanna improve my single strokes.. do I have to practice 8 on a hand or the straight single stroke roll.. help me understand the difference and the importance of both..
in short, should I do 8 on a hand or the straight single strokes and why
Makes a big difference in attack and clarity like wood or plastic and overall round tone like felt and softer materials. Also most importantly they all feel completely different which is the most important thing.
diggin the slippers I have the same ones!! :-)
Been using the Pearl Quad Beater with Axis Pedals mainly for the weight and feel. The Axis pedals are so smooth I cant get the proper force I sometimes require with the lighter beaters. All comes down to personal preference.
Yes I can hear a difference! Now when recording: I myself use a plastic beater with a metal danmar kick pad and Audix d6 combined with a Poseidon audio sub kick mic. Now when I’m playing live I use the wood beater with the metal danmar kick pad and a shure beta 52A. 🤘🏼🤘🏾🤘🏼great video by the way!!! Rock on bro.
Cant stand the Danmar metal beater, takes every bit of tone out and replaces it with a terrible tinny click sound.
From what i see, for a "stock" bass drum sound, really it makes little difference.
The more you go for a dry and clicky bass drum sound (the more you go toward a metal) the more the beater is paramount for the drum sound. As a matter of fact i believe it's impossible to take a clicky sound out of a bass drum without a wooden, plastic or similar beater. And i tried different heads and tunnings. The beater is a sine qua non factor for achieving the tone - it's not enough alone, but without it it's almost impossible to get it right from the source acoustically, then you're bound to do a whole lot of processing to compensate
I like the plastic one the most cause it gives the most attack.
I could tell some difference in attack between the different beaters but like you said it probably gets lost in all the mics and full band going
Mic 🎤 placement makes more of a difference to me for tone and attack
The difference in feel is the primary difference between beaters. They can make you strike the drum differently which accounts for more difference than the material. I don't mean to say there is *no* difference between a plastic and a felt beater, but the rebound, and heft will cause a player to strike the drum differently. Weight probably has more to do with a beater's effect on sound than material. The exception is a super soft beater. But wood, plastic, rubber and hard felt will all sound similar if they strike the drum with the same speed and intensity.
I use the vertical felt side of a 4 sided beater. I like a heavy beater because it feels better to me. I also have beater patch on the BD batter. It's a 22 inch oAk Custom with a Remo PS3 batter. Mostly play rock and prog so it works for what I need. I did like the sound of the softer beater on its own, but i think some of the nuances get lost in the mix. I guess it depends on the person at the mixing board really.
attention kids! don't run out and buy different beaters save that money for a good crash.
also . what about the different bass drum patches .. not your deal but there are ones geared towards different sounds (mostly metal) the plastic click disk and the metal click disk ( purchased metal click disk vs vinny paul half dollar .. I used quarters .. trick )
That's right, the cymbals are the most important investment you'll make.
You can make cheap drums sound good, but you can't make cheap cymbals sound better.
And of possible, don't get entry level or beginner cymbals if you're planning on sticking with drums.
It will just screw you up and make you frustrated with cheap, bad sounding cymbals.
What is a good heavy bass drum beater out there that I can buy
Idk what to choose
it mostly doesn't matter on a dead bass drum like the one you're playing. on a 16 or 18" BD tuned pretty high it's gonna make a bigger difference ESPECIALLY on a coated bater head.
I actually hear MORE of a difference withOUT the batter side mic...the tone is the same but the attack is noticeably less on the big felt one (probably would sound even more pillow-y with a brand new one of those). The difference between the felt and plastic side is subtle, with it sounding like there's a TAD bit more high end snap to it.
This is the BEST Drum lessons teacher for beginners online that I have experienced.
Your beater angle is pretty weird, wouldn't it feel better with a 90 degree angle? Personal reference I guess
i thought the same thing.Could be his height hes kinda tall.
I think it's angled that way so that the flat plastic beater hits the kick parallel to the head instead of digging in on the top edge. The felt beater on the other side has a round face, so it doesn't care too much about the angle it hits.
It's impossible for any of my pedals to get that angle unless you have a wider hoop. Or maybe not push the pedal up onto the hoop all the way.
I figured out how to do it, you take the piece off that is on the horizontal bar that holds the beater rod, and turn it around and put it back on.
That's the only way I can think of to get that angle.
Maybe he took his pedal apart and didn't realize it's backwards.
That's the only thing I can think of.
@@gaboogablah what do you mean? i can rotate the beater on my head up and down wit respect to the arm it sits on?
How can you make ur bass drum sound huge and deep like on kiss's album creatures of the night?
Record in a professional studio with sound engineers.
Fantastic. Certainly right about sound mix. BUT, really its about how it feels. Desks are great but having a good ( for you) beater is one that ties in well with YOU for accuracy. Also a ‘nice’ sound off the bass head helps with a good true lock-in with tempo. So, yes and no!!
Good vid/channel.👍
Do you bury the beater on purpose? You tend to do both when you play.
Wait lol I don’t get it.. is this video trying to insinuate beaters don’t make a difference? I can easily hear a tonal difference and more importantly a difference in feel between each one of my beaters.. and I have 6 different pairs and numerous others. I love how a beater can change the entire feel of my playing from wood, felt, aluminum, leather, canvas, fleece, it all makes a difference ✌🏼
I reckon that differences in beaters are more apparent with a patch on the beater head, plastic sounds a lot more like a smack, I don’t hear a massive difference between wood and felt ime
so as the touch and tactile aspect of drumming goes. it matters a great deal. a wood beater feels vastly different than the softer types. So i submit its not a sonic as much as a touch tactile thing.
I disagree. I use wood specifically because I love how much it sounds better than plastic or felt. I would rank it wood > plastic > felt. Wood and plastic feel pretty similar to me but the sound is why I prefer wood by mile
what about ceramic/glass and rock/crystal
I think your attack is averaging out the differences. I find that the bomber beater has a bigger range of sounds possible. When you kick softly, it's super round, and when you lay in there's more attack. A harder beater gives a similar click no matter how soft you play. But you're playing *pretty hard* for this whole demonstration.
It's sort of like using exclusively rimshots to test whether different sticks sound different.
I play in a big band and I used to care a lot about beaters. So much that I would switch out or put a cut up paint roller on the beater to change the sound. Listening back, the sonic difference didn’t justify the hassle. The key is feathering vs playing out (which has a ton to do with what you said in your video about heel up or heel down)
To mee i like the feel of the plastic or wood etc etc.. cause felt beaters doesn't feel solid.. feels fluffy 😂..
the black and white one most used in church i seen
Do nylon tips VS wood tips
what about wood beaters?
The only one I noticed a difference for was plastic side, there was a slight bit of a smack
You can really hear the plastic once bouncing after the initial hit, I didn't like the sound of that one. Instead of sounding like "thud" it sounded like "thud.d.d".
I have a wood beater, good attack
Roger Sellars I agree wood seems to be the best attack the only thing I don’t like about wood is it brings out the sound of the plastic of the head. But I totally agree wood is by far best for attack
what about wooden beaters?
In metal it does.
Where are the metal ones and the wood ones?
Of course you're not going to hear much of a difference when the batter is tuned that low and muffled that much.
In a recent soul session I was in, I wasn't getting exactly what I wanted out of the kick attack, so got the idea to put a kid's sock (care of the guitar players laundry) on the beater and everyone was shocked how well the tone fit. 🤣
Highly disagree. Acoustically i can easily hear a difference but especially if theyre micd close, wood absolutely destroys the competition. My kick started sounding amazing as soon as i switched
Bomber gives better low end than either of the other two. Too bad the audio was edited to even out the volume differences, because on here, the bomber definitely has the fullest and strongest sound, which is contrary to Stephen's intro comment that he uses the harder beater for louder situations. Also, the tuning of the drum is sure to make a difference. A very loose tuning (like this one) is less sensitive to alterations in technique than a slightly (or not so slightly) tighter one, and I'll bet the same goes for changes of beaters.
tbh i did notice a difference
should have included wood beaters .....
Untrue. It makes a big difference. Trick beaters are amazing.
Attack and Weight.
Of course it matters..
Clearly different attacks
100% genre dependent. It might not matter for some genres. But for metal, it very much does matter.
Sorry i gotta strongly disagree. The one withh soft material vs hard material make huge difference. Is just matter of More attack Or more roundish soft tone.
Those shoes make me sad
Your neck is longer than an giraffes
Would seem like God didn’t want his neck to look like yours mate.
Your snare sounds awful
Not about the audience, about the feel under my feet. Sorry dude but you are completely wrong plus you only tested 3 beaters. You gotta get out of here.