Pokémon Gold/Silver's postgame is surprisingly elegant
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- #pokemon #retrogaming #gamereview #retrospective
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The postgame Kanto part of Pokémon Gold and Silver has a bad reputation. But did we all judge it so harshly as kids? By knowing the right order to fight the Kanto league gym leaders and structuring your playthrough around that, the Pokémon Gold/Silver postgame actually becomes sensible and smart.
We may disagree with the designers' choice to make Kanto feel lore-accurate, with low level wild pokemon and Red being crazy overpowered, but it's clear they were going for vision more than what we NOW call "good game design."
Come listen to my little retrospective on the gen 2 Kanto experience, and why I feel positively about it. - Ігри
slugma balls
Nailed it
gg well played
Pee is stored in the Voltorbs
King
Theyr2 meant to be slug like
The coolest moment in the post game is going up Mt. Silver, seeing no other trainers around the outside, the inside, anywhere. And then you get to the last room and see Red. And rather than say anything, he just goes straight to the battle. Your eyes met. You both know what time it is.
Then you hear the crazy music, see level EIGHTY ONE and realize how serious they are taking it 💀
TIMEE TO FCKKKK
To me it's seeing Kanto in color. Mind you, I was a kid when I had this game and we got it right after Red and Yellow. Just the fact that it's there at all is a huge mind f-ck when youre used to playing Pokemon games that usually have a single region.
Mt Silver is special though. Probably my 2nd fondest memory of the post game is that little area and finding the secret boss.
I mean it was huge mind fuck period. Games at the time were very small and very focused, often being beaten in an afternoon. To have a full length rpg that surprised players with a post game that teased at doubling its content was something else for the time.
it's such an intense moment. i don't quite know how to explain that feeling, but child me was both scared and excited to battle against red. i still remember the nostalgia and shock i felt seeing red use some of the pokemon _i_ used in yellow version.
Wait people think the post game is bad? This shit blew our minds over 20 years ago.
"Wait people think the post game is bad?"
Only on Reddit/Twitter where kids listen to UA-camrs spouting lies without zero fact checking
The inclusion of a second region was great to have, however the level curve in the Kanto region was hot garbage. The wild pokemon on all routes should have been in the mid thirties to early fourties and the trainers pokemon should have been in the mid fifties (with the gym leaders in the low to mid 60s). Just one shotting most of the pokemon there gets really boring really fast.
The post game is bad in terms of the leveling curve. Trainers are too weak and wild Pokémon are way too low lv
It’s garbage and the fact some Johto Pokémon can only be found on Kanto like Slugma, Houndour and Murkrow, which lore wise make zero sense
The idea of Kanto is great, the implementation was trash
@@aceclover758 "and the fact some Johto Pokémon can only be found on Kanto like Slugma, Houndour and Murkrow"
Never become a game designer
If they were all in Johto you fuckers would complain that there's nothing in Kanto
And also, there weren't Generations when GSC released, they were just new Pokemon and not Gen 2 Pokemon
@@brandonlangley1009 you didnt notice any of that when the game was new and you were 9 years old at the time. If you dont remember how you felt landing in kanto and going through the entire game and how magical that was at the time, then you are probably one of those reddit/twitter kids the previous comment is mentioning. Objectively, yes, its hot garbage having the pokemon be such low level in kanto as a post game area, buta s a kid, when it mattered, it was a fantastic experience. Everyone had a gameboy, and a lot of kids would battle each other during recess or after school. It was how i completed my pokedex. Loser trades whatever pokemon winner wanted. Yall dont have that experience today, so it seems trash. Back then, though, we had reasons to catch the rare dark pokemon just to show off to your friends, or raise the new pokemon to battle your friends and counter their team with a houndour because they dont know how low the chance is to actually catch one. Doing things like raising pokemon with egg moves to trade with your friends. It was a different time back then, and kids these days will never enjoy the original games the way they were meant to. I highly reccomend yall play the DS remakes, Heartgold and Soulsilver. As someone who literally am the 9 year old in this scenario, the remakes were fantastic and had a ton of quality of life changes that brought it to modern game design.
As a child, it's existence itself was a beautiful treat that we didn't deserve.
I felt this too. I was beyond amazed when I found out not only was johto connected to Kanto but you could also VISIT KANTO? it was wonderful being (slightly) older remembering my first pokemon game. The fact that you could experience that was more than I could imagine when playing crystal for the first time. Magical they let us to do that.
Amen to that , I legit lost my mind when we took our first step in Kanto then saw the map
>we didn’t deserve
Stfu plebbitor. Go back, take your cringe millennial catchphrases with you.
I absolutely deserved it
Ikr??? Idk why people have an issue with it.
I can't fault Kanto being mostly empty because it's a miracle they managed to fit as much as they did in addition to the entire Johto region. There isn't really much to do, aside from catching some new pokemon that are way too low level for most players to bother using, but there is novelty in being able to return to the region of the previous game and see how things have changed, and it was even more novel when the game first came out.
What I can fault them is the bad level curve, though. And if there was supposed to be an intended order to fight the gym leaders, it really makes no sense to have you land in Vermillion and be immediately able to fight Surge if he wasn't designed to be the first. Just have his gym be locked until you complete some story event, instead of letting players face him first and then finding some of the subsequent gym leaders trivial because their teams are at lower level than Surge's. Needing out of game information and planning just to play the postgame gym quest in a way that feels sensible is clearly not good design.
I honestly don't mind the openness of the second half of Johto and then all of Kanto. Being able to choose where to go next, and actually being able to do so, makes the adventure truly feel like your own, and not the same curated Disneyland tour everyone else takes on. It certainly would be nicer if the trainers had higher levels to sort of hint which order is suggested like Zelda 1's dungeons, however, you'd still run into being stronger than your opponents at some point. Cause if you're already strong enough to take on even the hinted 1st leader, but decide to choose your own adventure and do them out of order, you'll power up more and make the other ones easier, just like Zelda 1's dungeons.
In Zelda 1, you can do Levels 1, 2 and 3 in any order, no holds barred. Of course the later ones feature slightly stronger enemies than the former, but if you're skillful enough, you can finish Level 3 first. Getting the heart container there and coming back to any of the first two dungeons means you now have more health than if you did either of them first. You can also walk straight to Level 6 and pick up the magic wand before any of the dungeons, if you really wanted to. It's possible for the orange Wizzrobes to 1-shot you this early in the game, but that's a risk a skilled player can take.
I firmly believe Pokemon should be of similar design; how can you call it an adventure if you're not allowed to take risks and choose your own path.
That Calcium _is_ to the left of the sign, if you take into account the direction your character is facing while reading it.
While Gen 2 has its faults, *NOTHING* will ever top being able to play through Kanto again and battling all the Gym Leaders as well as the old Rival and protagonist of the first game. This generation is special.
Knocking out that Lugia instead of catching it hurt my soul 😢
In another world, he would have knocked out a Ho-Oh to break your heart
Oh, that's odd. I didn't know people thought the post game was bad. All of my friends still say Gold and Silver were the best, back in the day. Sure, looking at it now, it seems limited. But back then, it felt like they'd put nearly the entirety of Red and Blue into our new games and it was a shock when it happened. We had no idea there was gonna be a return to Kanto, so maybe the rose colored glasses have kept it nice in my mind. Playing the Crystal Clear romhack a lot also colors my perception though, I'll admit. lol
"Oh, that's odd. I didn't know people thought the post game was bad."
That's the neat thing: they don't.
It's very underwhelming besides red.
It was not a remotely popular opinion until the past few years where people decided to look back at these games "in retrospect"(aka without context for the limitations of when and how they were made). This kind of dissatisfaction with the older games is also peddled pretty aggressively by a certain Poketuber who decided one of the mainstays of their channel would be rom-hacking older Pokemon games in order to "fix" them.
@@BradTheDead Pretty much anyone that remembers the game fondly thinks very highly of it. Pretty much anyone that plays gen2 with any frequency thinks it's bad. The gym leaders are just pathetic. Janine is probably the worst offender, with pokemon as low as level 33. Brock's entire team is quad weak to grass, and are just bad in general. Over half of his team isn't even fully evolved, and this is, again, post-game content. There's literally only one competent leader, meaning every battle is a joke until suddenly you get really good battles with Blue, then Red. Seven wasted gyms, a rocket subplot in which you are required to battle 0 rockets, and a boatload of nostalgia.
@@TotallyCluelessGamer That's a pretty cheap shot to take at other people that make romhacks. You can like these games and still admit more could have been done with them. No need to get catty.
People need to stop looking at this through a modern lens: when you where 10 year old and have no idea Kanto was in the game, well it was simply mind blowing. 🌋
True....i was wandering around Johto then for whatever reason i remembered that right next to your house is water you could surf. The rest is history.
Especially compared to the basically non-existent post game of Red/Blue/Yellow.
@@SimonFrack
Non existent post game in any other generation except 5th.
How can anyone call the dumb battle towers post game? That's just a boring gauntlet.
@@Gatitasecsii The only thing with any real longevity for a single save file. Replay value is insane plus it offers an actual challenge. That is why people love them.
@@Gatitasecsii This. Battling difficult NPC trainers is okay but gets old really quick, plus you have to grind the shit out of it just to get any rewards. I'd much rather have the bonus adventure that the gen 2 games offered
My only issue with the post game of Johto is that it locks out content from the main game. I cannot use stone evolutions until i beat the game and make it to celadon. If it didn't mess up my fun with the main game, I would consider it a 10/10
Was also not a fan, in gen 2 specifically, that the radio card was optional. Had to go all the way back to jubilife to wake up the snorlax. But that's because I started johto with the 4th Gen, and I didn't even think about it
@@masoncasey9353 I assume by Jubilife you meant Goldenrod, but easy to mistake honestly, considering they both feature in gen 4 games and fill broadly similar roles XD. I agree the potential for missing the radio card in a casual playthrough is unfortunate, both for the reason you describe and several others. For one it's straight up intended as a core feature of the 'Pokegear' and missing it almost makes a redundancy of this extra menu. Another is the intertwining of the radio mechanic with the Rocket takeover narrative - probably one of the most memorable moments I've had playing a pokemon game was of hearing the news of strange radio signals, turning my radio on, and discovering for myself that Team Rocket really had taken over all the channels.
Probably because the game designer is assuming you are using the Time Machine to trade with Gen 1 for stone Evolutions.
@@kutless45This was definitely the case originally because Bill’s grandfather only gives you one stone of each type in Gold and Silver. This was fixed in Crystal, where he gives you a stone every time you show him the correct Pokémon. Trainers who give you a stone if you exchange numbers were also added.
'False Swipe' is a move Scythers can learn that cannot damage an opponent below 1hp, it is indispensable for capturing and not killing low level pokemon.
I'm in the process of 100%ing gen 2 (so Stadium 2 included) and just got Blue's badge today, which means Red is the only thing that's left. I have to say... the problem I have with the postgame is that it fails to take advantage of the things that make Johto great. Kanto proper is completely devoid of daily events, not a single berry tree or Pokegear trainer or anything else. When you're in the heart of Johto, after beating Whitney, that's the sweetspot and peak of the game. You have a bit of freedom but not too much to where it feels like there's nothing to do. And you have a reason to check in every day for daily stuff, even if you aren't planning on making story progress. You have a ton of daily trees, trainers, Bug Contest, etc available to you. Once I progressed past that point to Radio Tower and beyond, it felt like the game got thinner and thinner on content, and the level curve also drops off at this point. Kanto is that problem to an extreme. It really just feels like they ran out of time on this game, and it's a big shame...
17:18 The sign doesn't say "on the east side". It says "on the left side" and you can only read it from above. So the item is, in fact, to the left of the sign for every non-fourth-dimensional being reading the sign..
Ah, I was worried no one else would defend the sign's honor
Analysis of Gen 2’s postgame requires so much context - yes, 20 some years later, there are some glaring issues. At the time of its release? This was a pretty profound inclusion especially when you consider how bare the Gen 1 games were after beating the elite four. I think that’s why you see such a vast difference in perception of Gen 2 amongst players of different ages. Younger players who weren’t there to experience it in real time will never understand the excitement and aesthetic and vibes back then.
Totally. And without internet, we didn't know how much game there still was.
Even looking at it now, it's clear many issues came from a single choice to make Kanto feel accurate rather than to make it fit in with the existing level curve. Beefing up the trainers, OR giving another ~2 ways to grind, would have gone quite far to help it.
@@ji_mothy if the VS seeker had come out 1 generation sooner, GSC would’ve had a real argument as the best games in the series lol
Taking temporal context into account when reviewing an early entry in a long-running series? Blasphemy!!
It was also shocking for memory reason. red and blue already were cramming a lot of stuff in for a gameboy game and somehow gold and silver had like... two games? almost double the number of pokemon, better sprites and colors, just, more more more, a lot more stuff. Nowadays it's not really a limiting factor anymore, but at the time it really shown great care to work around these limitation to bring in as much content as possible (mentality which has had pretty bad repercussions later down the line on game design philosophy but lead to very cool moments at the time).
And even as kids we were really aware of the limitations of the games we were playing. Like, even materially, when you play red and blue with a cartridge you realize quickly it's held by duct tape and a prayer, when you have to blow in your cartridge to dislodge some dust so that the game boots properly for exemple. So even if we weren't fully aware of the behind the scenes of how everything works it was still pretty clear what was technically impressive and what wasn't.
Nowadays it feels more blurry and some high tech feats can be to be able to do an effect without needing a lot of worker while something can look impressive and just be the result of one hundred people crunching to death. And there aren't that many game design decision guided by technical limitations anymore. (at least not as a primary factor).
Not saying those technical limitations were good, but yeah it's really important to understand the context and the wonder something like that has generated.
@@colevitiritto8976 it has the battle tower and some other stuff like that. It's still directly inferior to HGSS but having grown up with GSC I still prefer them
I thought it was coolest thing ever riding the ship as a kid to a new area
8:08 fun fact: Cycling Road has Slugma too. It is definitely located in Gen 2
I think a lot more kids used the post game correctly and had a lot of fun creating new teams and crafting their own narratives for them. Unfortunately, the incentive to do this isn't exactly strong enough to convince more extrinsically motivated players to play in this way.
I think the GS post game is in an interesting spot where it is beloved by many, but the conversation around it doesn't often include these people because most of them aren't the kind of people to be so concerned
Amen! Crafting new teams is a big part of the experience I didn't touch on here, since my style still did need me to be goal focused on Red. All of us back in 2000 were plenty happy with this part of the game as a large unexpected bonus.
were you intoxicated when you made this pointless comment?
@@balthasargerard7246 🦐
@@balthasargerard7246"I am insecure and need attention"
@@balthasargerard7246if you consider a comment pointless (which i'd contest here given this is a relevant anecdote expressing this person's feelings on the subject of the video), surely there are better uses of your time and energy than responding to it in a totally non-constructive manner?
Post-Game-Kanto content, very nice!🥰 By the way: Vermilion City has with Lt. Surge the 3rd gym batch - not the 4th.
I literally just finished watching your first Gold/Silver video after it was recommended to me! What a fun, elegant surprise.
I cant believe that there are people that legitimately believe gold and silver post game is bad
GS set the bar for post games for me. I still hope for the same quality in new games (and hope for an additional region)
@@Tryingtogetradical When played gen 3 for the first time as kid, not having johto and kanto to revisit seriously disappointed me
I had to pause 13 minutes in because I had to check that Berserk Gene was real. Wild stuff!
4:56 - "For now, steal a Full Heal from his bush."
No idea why he would keep one in there.
Well, where do you store your Full Heals? Because I can’t think of many better places to
You are very well-spoken and insightful for a grown man who 100%'s old pokemon games
Did 2 years in radio and 10 years in corporate 😅 now we doing things for me. Glad you are enjoying.
@@ji_mothy that's awesome you did radio!
@@ji_mothy2 years in radio sounds so fucking cool ngl (even if in reality it was probably just A Job:tm:)
@@ji_mothy Good stuff! With your delivery i'm not surprised you have Radio experience.
However, Not to sound obnoxious, but I would like to offer a small amount of criticism. Not sure if it bothered other people, but the close-up radio style recording introduced alot of plosive popping and it was a bit much for me.
Did love the video though bud.
@@ji_mothyjust curious…..in the 10 corporate years were you able to payoff your mortgage and car loan in order to launch a UA-cam channel? Or do you do other work like own a business now?
I don't want to even think about the horrors of that Rapidash/Pikachu mating ritual
The post-game put this generation above the rest. I remember playing Ruby/Sapphire for hours trying to find a way into Johto/Kanto and was so disappointed it wasn't included. No generation has raised the bar like Gen 2 did.
I've never understood the hate the Kanto post game got. Even then I understood that Kanto was an extra area, a nostalgic return.
My favorite aspect of Post Kanto is how the physical limitations made Kanto into a You can never go home story
Kanto remains familiar but forever changed by time, in a way it really helped me understand Tajiri's sense of loss of his old rural stomping grounds.
THANK you. The postgame moment where you realise this is YOUR quest YOU decide to do in YOUR way was years ahead of its time and a lot of people just weren't ready for it. The player fight also has one of the best final boss tracks in gaming and really feels like it caps off the the GB/GBC era perfectly.
4:56 "For now, steal a Full Heal from his bush."
Is that what they call it now?
Johto really does have some comfy ass tunes on its OST doesn't it?
The OST is very strong. And WAY longer than you remember. It's like 90 tracks
It does one of my favorite ones is the Pokémon Lullaby
Not a comfy song per se but Dragon’s Den goes hard too
15:33 I was surprised to hear this mentioned. To those who don't know, this is an example of a graph that is Semi-Eulerian, meaning that a trail exists that passes through all edges without repetition that ends at opposite odd vertices (odd vertices appear in pairs as a result of the Handshaking Lemma). In a discussion about the Seven Bridges of Königsberg, Euler discussed a problem similar to this one. The paper was actually the first in the field of Graph Theory. He also found that a path could exist through all edges, without repetition, while ending at the vertex of origin if the number of edges connected to each vertex was even. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
They charged me college tuition to learn this once and here you are in the yt comments giving it away 🤦🏻♂️
@@ji_mothy I actually just learned that stuff last semester in my Discrete Mathematical Modeling class. Now I'm going to grad school for my PHD in Applied Mathematics this upcoming semester.
Been following these since the Dark Souls videos. It's such a treat to see this approach applied to my childhood favorite game. :)
So glad you made this video Mothy! I started out playing Pokemon with these games, so they've always had a special place in my heart. I've always been aware that there were flaws, but they weren't ever enough for me to not love every aspect of the games. These pair of videos you created really helped highlight all of the great things in these games, while also taking the time to acknowledge the flaws that came along with them. Thanks for making great content, I'm looking forward to your next video!
Ngl, as someone who played gold when it came out, I had no idea people didn't like the post-game. Thought it was dope. No one I knew complained about it
There is a reason us old heads like GSC.
They didn't have enough room to fit the whole of Kanto however.
I binged all of your Pokemon videos in the last few days and what a pleasant surprise to see this in my feed the day after I finished! I love the look at content that most people skip over. High quality stuff, looking forward to whatever you do next.
It didn't bother me having it separated into two videos. I think it worked fantastic and I'm definitely looking forward to more videos I know you probably won't do all the Pokemon in a row but do you plan on going through all of them eventually?
Id say so! Not sure if I have a good way to record the DS ones so I might bounce forward to Switch games eventually
@@ji_mothy I know it's not technically as intended but I would suggest an emulator. I believe some of the emulators even support Link cable Trading if that is required at any point
@@McLovinModsEmulators are, to the best of my knowledge, basically how everyone records handheld nintendo games these days if they havent been ported to a later system
New mothy!!!
I never knew about the postgame as a kid? Like... I learned about it during a GDQ run a few years ago! 😅
I've been meaning to replay Gold/Silver ever since.
That sign saying the item was left makes sense, from the player's perspective the calcium was left when they were facing the sign and reading it lol
Uh, Vermilion has the 3rd gym, my guy, not the 4th
17:19 It is literally impossible on every existing physical level to read that sign from any other side than above, so >your< only possible right side is exactly where the item is, no issues here
The dude with the lvl 12 Pidgey actually gives you a tip on how to train low level pokemons against stronger foes, so it's not as weird as it first seems.
This series is gonna go crazy in Ruby/Sapphire. Love it
I saw the Japanese copies of Gold/Silver locked behind glass in an American store a few months before the English version release as a kid and the magic feeling of that moment has never been matched since.
Literally who is complaining abou Gen 2 postgame. It's the most robust post game in any Pokemon game. It's partially to blame for lukewarm reception of Gen 3 back in the day, since it seemed so short in comparison (that and you had to get like 6 games to get all the Pokemon at the time). And it allowed you to get the other box legendary.
This guy is just making videos to make videos dude it’s pretty obvious
(Ji)Mothy I watched two whole ads for you for this video. One for FB and one for some mobile game. Know I appreciate what you do but this was torture to my adhd
17:24 It might be to the right of the sign from our perspective - but remember, the CHARACTER is looking south, reading the sign. Meaning from the characters perspective, they need to move east, which is to their left. So the sign is correct in-universe (as how it should be).
I never heard anyone in real life disparage the gen 2 post game.
As much as I loved the base game, my favourite part about playing Gold as a kid was the post Elite 4 content. Not really sure why, maybe the nostalgia or seeing how Kanto changed.
Red was such a beast in 1999 but seeing you dismantle him with a much lower level team was poetic.
Incredible video, keep up the great work.
The level curve is silly, the battles are a joke but.. G/S postgame is pure asthetic kino and I love every second of it
the whole game is peak pokemon vibes and aesthetics tbh
Been watching since the Dark souls route videos and I just wanna say I love your channel! I'm so glad to see you taking the idea and applying it to other games, it's been a real blast!
Thank you for sticking around! Pokemon is such fun to make, it's gonna give whiplash when I go back for Sekiro 😵💫
@ji_mothy ahhh sekiro, my favorite rhythm game
Murkrow is arguably an even better counter for Red’s Espeon since its flying type negates Mud-Slap damage which could harm houndoom especially if it has crunch instead of faint attack and a lower level
I used to watch Scykoh as a kid and you kinda sound like him. Great video!
The first game ever to fall into my hands was Pokemon Crystal. You could say I have a bias, but you could also say, I was the only one with animated Pokemon sprites.
The fact that this video contained a random reference to Maximum Overdrive earned you a sub.
As a kid this blew my mind getting to go back to Kano when I beat the elite 4. This was the most expansive game I played at age 9
The Kanto experience was the first time in my entire life I recognized the feeling of nostalgia. I didn't know there was a word for the feeling but I felt it. I do wish it wasn't such a cakewalk but it's honestly not a dealbreaker for me. I just think it's so impactful to see the progression of the in-game world over time and see what has changed. It's a simple thing but so effective. This is a fantastic video, and I love your philosophy with which you make your videos that you stated in the intro. I'm subbed :)
Exactly! Jeeze. It sold so well for a reason.
Example: If you got a houndoom early, what reason would there be for you to keep looking for one? It enhances replayability and trading with friends.
There are way too many harsh critics of this game. While there are definitely some things that can be addressed(same with any game), it seems unfair, disrespectful and dishonest to call it out as being bad or lacking a vision.
I'd love to play the legacy rom hacks of this game but it's hard when they say over and over "this is how it should've been".
The people who wanted Houndoom early only look at the Johto games from Falkner and Lance. These are the only Pokémon games with two regions and sixteen gyms. However, they play the Johto games as if they only had one region and eight gyms. Players who want to catch Houndour in Johto wonder why using a strong Pokémon with STAB Dark and Fire Type moves to defeat half of the Johto gym leaders, Silver, and half of the Pokémon used by the Elite Four is not an option unless they trade in a Houndour egg in the early game.
I didn’t even know people didn’t like the post game for Gold/Silver it was a great experience and the nostalgia
Bruh, I just finished the Kanto postgame video, went to subscribe and Johto's already here.
As a kid playing silver, I had no idea there was a post game. When I got to Kanto I was blown away that I got to reexperience blue version. But it was even better because I felt like all my childhood struggles with certain parts of blue were made easier because I have new gen pokemon. Got revenge on Brock and felt great
when you said “vulpices” thats when i knew i had to sub
Great video. The shock and joy i felt as a 9 year old discovering kanto is in the game... I still remember it clearly at age 31
One of the best things about pokemon regardless of age is seeing other ppls teams. Their strategy/favorites are always fun and interesting to see
It was a tradition for me when reaching Kanto to go face Brock first and lastly Blue before facing Lt. Surge... Best tradition I always follow whenever I replayed Crystal version. Memories
Video randomly popped up on my feed. I had no clue Kanto was in the game. This was amazing to find out. Thank you for this!
Came for the Souls challenge runs, stayed for the Pokeymanz content. Megami Tensei soon, hopefully?
I just realised the stuff I always thought were rocks were bushes....
Sorry if someone already commented this but it's called Oli Vine City, it's basically Olive Vine City when you read it. Not Oli Veen City.
When i was a kid the Gold/Silver post game felt really cool. I do like how most of the Kanto leaders were stronger than the elite 4 with Blue still stronger showing us how he was champion 3 years prior. The random level 12 Pidgey i think was an intentional nod to switch training, give the trainers dialogue, if i recall correctly. However the AI typically won't bother switching, I think he did once against me though. I appreciate the level of detail you went into here as I always thought the post game was cool although a slight let down.
I feel like the Kanto experience only turned out like it did because they had no choice but to send us to vermillion first.
I also don't mind that they decided to send us a different route than the original RBY, because it would've felt redundand to just go from Pallet through to Cinnabar.
But i agree that Lt. Surge should've been the lowest level Kanto Leader. The curve could've been something like Surge, Sabrina, Misty, Erika, Janine, with Blue/Blaine and Brock all being on a similar difficulty as final 3 options.
Brock, Gen1s easiest Gymleader being one of the hardest one is also just a fun idea.
Shuffling the levels they gave to each leader would have been smart, yeah. They have all trained since gen 1; no reason they need to have all trained proportionate amounts. Brock and Misty are young, they could have been made powerful gym leaders. Strong Brock would have been legendary
Found your channel recently and loving your videos. Thanks!
I just found the channel and I love it. Seeing things from a game devs eye and the little hints and items that are placed to teach and help you in an organic way is something often over looked by a lot of people in their rush to just bull head their way through a game. They forget the craft that went into to making said game.
17:23 the sign was correct, item was to it's left... from character perspective, not top-down perspective ;-)
Really been digging your Pokemon videos....it's been a serious trip down memory lane. You've really been nailing it!
Honestly, I'd love to do some Pokemon content someday....🤔
hi JK!! Happy you're enjoying :D I definitely threw my subs for a loop when I picked up pokemon content but I'm happy I ended up here! Now how to complete pokemon with knives only...
Kanto is less so the last half of the game, and more so the last third imo. I usually beat the Johto side with 4 mons, then pick up 2 more mons to focus on for the kanto third.
Allows me to use some of the creatures that are exclusive to Kanto, and makes it more interesting because my own team won't just roflstomp the region.
that doesn't make it the last third. In Sinnoh most people catch 3 pokemon by Gardenia. Does that mean the 2nd gym is the halfway mark of the entire game?
@@blackout6519 No? I don't quite understand what you're saying
I think it is safe to say that the Johto games were designed for players to add at least one more Pokémon to their team in Kanto. The game was designed for players to have the Shiny Gyarados from the Lake of Rage on their team so that they can reach Indigo Plateau. Then Gyarados can be replaced after defeating the Elite Four and Lance.
Fav part of 2nd Gen is having NPC friends to call you back for a rematch.
You'll see their Pokemon get stronger and evolve in every rematch.
Forretress! My absolute favorite Pokemon, Knife is perfect.
If the Kanto gym's were pumped up 10 - 20 levels it would be the most perfect endgame in Pokemon history.
I still love the idea of going back to sweep Kanto then fighting Red, but man, even Blue is just a scrub if you have even the most basically built up team and that will always be sad to me.
Awesome video! Always happy to see another mothy vid! Keep it up!
@6:03 my mom’s name is Aly, how did you know? 😮
5:20. Is that a Violent femmes reference. Like the 3 doors down lyric in your other video
Everything is a reference 🫣
17:20 The trainer is reading the side looking downward on the screen, so that Calcium is still technically on his left. That’s pretty funny
There are people who dislike the Gold/Silver postgame? It was legitimately one of the greatest experiences of my childhood gaming and I’m convinced that it’s what sparked my interest in hidden areas in other games, like everything Fromsoft for example.
What I find the most impressive about the post game of gen 2 is a techincal aspect: the entire game is only ~2MBs of data. Yes, Megabytes. How did they fit so much stuff in only 2 MBs??!
Im ok with some new Pokémon being in Kanto/postgame. Its weird until you realise they probably intended all these new species as that, new, not necessarily tied to Johto at all. Just like there are Kanto Pokémon only in Johto, Im ok with the opposite. It gives you a reason to explore the Kanto encounters when you would have otherwise just stuck to the team you beat Lance with. It might have been super intended to introduce some new Pokémon to your team post -E4.
Loved gold/silver growing up and glad to see you doing this. Also, really loved the Kanto region section of the game as a kid as it was cool to see two regions in one game! Also, Typholsion will always be my favorite gen 2 starter pokemon.
I have never heard anyone say that gold and silver have a poor post game experience everyone raves about it from what I’ve seen so I don’t know where that data came from
it blew my mind first time i continued playing after elite 4 and getting to visit kanto again thought they jsut used th evictory roadpart as a weird combination and throwback
These videos have been brilliant. I know it risks burnout but I would love this type of unique detail on the rest of the series.
I loved the part 2 of this please make more
Fun fact if you choose cyndaquil and only battle with it you can bosses walk the whole game no turning around no grinded just one school yard stomping after another XD
I grew up playing Gen 2 after gen 1 like most kids so I admit learning I was back in Kanto (which I didn't even know was the name of the region at the time) blew my mind. And while I did notice Kanto was more barren as a kid I didn't consider that a minus either because kid me didn't care about that.
While I think it's fair to say the post-game could have been better, it's mainly in ways that the rest of these games could have been better (fixed level scaling, better encounter for all Pokemon, better story regarding Team Rocket, etc) so in that regard I don't see Kanto's emptiness as a unique enough problem to single is out as worse than the rest of Gen 2.
I literally planned on doing this exact same thing in Pokémon Silver post game.
I started my initial playthrough about 2 months ago, just started postgame about three weeks ago but haven’t had time to play it. I only beat Janine in Fuchsia City so far.
I didn’t plan a route like you did, just gym members in a slightly different order, but naturally the way I am taking is the same as yours. I am just about to get to the power plant, this way feels like the intended way to go about the game even if at first it feels weird passing up battling the first three towns with gyms in them.
My order is going to be (because of their highest leveled Pokémon), Janine (venemoth 39), Brock (onix 44), Lt Surge (electabuzz 45), Erica (bellossom 46), Misty (starmie 47), Sabrina (48) , Blane (50) ,Blue (58)
Still though, ruining Misty’s date only to leave her waiting in a line of other gym battles feels satisfyingly slightly evil 🙃
I feel like G/S slightly ruined me, since I started to expect 16 gyms from future games and was just let down.
I actually stopped playing for a while after I first beat the E4 because I didn't know you could go to Kanto. I just never stopped to think about the Bullet Train.... granted you unlock that even later and need to get the boat ticket.
Oh, people are not liking the postgame of GSC now? I remember when it was the gold standard of how to do postgame in Pokémon and how no other games got it right before Black and White. Sure, HGSS helped a lot (more legendaries to chase, better movesets for trainers, second League, a few restored areas, rematches with Gym Leaders, less cumbersome to travel from one region to the other, slighly better leveling curve, etc.), but GSC is still amazing for the time, it's really incredible how much the popularity of those original games fell down in the last decade or so.
Off topic, I love what the romhack Crystal Clear did with the map, they restored Kanto as it was in RBY and added a bunch of new areas to explore and they solved the Gym problem by using different teams according to your number of badges, that's probably my favourite way of playing Gen 2 nowadays.
Not sure if you know this Mothy, but Satoru Iwata was the reason this game even has Kanto. It needed to be compressed to fit on the cartridge hence it's so stripped down.
Yeah i dont get why people want to be harsh on post game content for gold and silver. I mean red and blue was all we ahd before then and the post game there was mewtwo....
Adding a whole map with updates and a high level challenge was a very nice addition.
Plus it was cool you could fight level 50 starters in viridian city or, fight your friends team if you did mystery gift.
It was kind of neat you got to feel like a champion and were stronger then alot of the trainers in kanto and havibg to revist places for events and later on did male it feel more interesting and like there was a good bit that was hidden away all over.
mate...vermillion's the 3rd gym. It's the 4th with a gym IN it, and can be battled as up to the 7th gym if you want, but it's the intended 3rd gym, with the first you encounter, Viridian's, being closed until you have the other 7 badges
7:08 saltine being a flying type is absolutely crazy to me... (Update did some research HOW?!?)