@@ridleyroid9060 the homogenization used to bother me more than it does now. I played The Secret World heavily and that game didn't even have classes, you just chose 2 weapons and could make a build out of any and all learned skills. So in comparison, XIV felt restrictive. I feel like the "over-balancing" in XIV actually blends with the game's overall design of respecting the players' time. You never have to worry about not being able to spend your time how you want because of your choice of job or gameplay style.
@@longboi3426 basically time spent preparing to fight a boss again after failing to kill it the first time. Buffing up again, pots, repairs, stuff like that
As a veteran of the 40-man raid era... it was a disaster. I got Horde-first (edit: on Perenolde, not worldwide) MC/BWL clears in vanilla and there was no night where getting 40 people together wasn't a massive exhausting undertaking. I hated it so much. It really taught me how much better a smaller, tightly-focused raid is than managing a battalion of people.
It was horrible. Then again I remember doing 100 man raids in Everquest, keeping 100 people focused for hours to do Plane of Earth boss in EQ was unreal.
@@qlcrane8019 iirc its 48 Man(the Southern Front Final instanced dungeon you mean right?)and from experience you dont normaly que for it with 48 People but between 24-48
This wouldn't be as much of an issue in the modern era, as classic has already proven. Back in the days you got 'Horde-first MC/BWL', you just invited anyone who was willing to play because you had no way of measuring if someone was good (everyone was new) and you were limited to players on your realm. Someone with a pulse that had enough time to spend going into the raid was a 'Horde-first MC/BWL' player. Nowadays, there's a plethora of methods of ensuring you know 1. the player is experienced and 2. there's at least 40 players present, days in advance of the actual raid. Classic had an insane amount of 40-man guilds and even organized pugs running around clearing everything within an hour or two at the same time every week.
@@joostleisder1956 Our Horde balance on Perenolde was low, like 5:1 Alliance:Horde, so having a pulse was indeed enough to get me in the door for Luci attempts. Once we cleared that the arrangement shifted to a three-guild alliance among my guild (Champions of the Horde) and two others and we formed a vetted, stable roster with a small bench. Even still, we did have nights where were needed to grab random folks to fill out, say, Vael attempts (because people loved to mysteriously have conflicts during that one). Perenolde's Horde balance was so bad that no Horde group ever cleared AQ40 or Naxx in vanilla. It was an odd place to be.
It's worth noting that TEA makes UWU look and feel like a little baby boss. When comparing the most difficult content in the game this is something to think of.
I've done both and I can't agree more. TEA is the only content left with somewhat of a dps check and is also by design extremely unforgiving. Someone died on wormhole? Well better hope it's not a healer or someone whose mitigation was needed because good luck recovering for the stack damage, double mega holy and BJ's J waves. Even on perfect alex if your group is under average a single healer or tank death can mean dying to enrage. And I reckon it used to be harder even.
I think the amount of clearing TEA is still not as long as what Max said in WOW. Tho I don't think taking longer time to clear make the content better.
"His or her goldfish is drowning" or rolling out the window with the bowl edit: about song copyright at least for FFXIV, iirc song accompanied by relevant gameplay should not be problem.
I think the transitions being long in FFXIV makes sense and helps. Because the Ultimate fights in FFXIV are gauntlets and are significantly longer than any WoW raids (TEA itself is about 18 minutes), the longer downtime helps gives players a bit of breathing room and reprieve from the next onslaught of mechanics.
@@joostleisder1956 yea and ff has savage raids with 15 mins lenght so. titan in e4s is 14+ mins, e8s over 14 mins, e12s over 18 mins(with cutscene, without 16,5 mins), every omega raid last tier stage is around 14 mins. every last tier raidboss has a equal batlle duration of pure mechanics, thats also the reason why uwu is considered the easiest ultimate, its just abit longer than e12s, same transition duration(or close the same), just faster mechanics to solve. so uwu is more like a harder savage content, like super savage, fight duration is around 16,5 mins, ucob holds the beer with 19 mins and alex with 18 mins.
WoW raids are a succession of 10/13 boss + lots of trahs mob is 4h per night during 3/4 day per week during 2/3/4 or more weeks for clean a raid HM/MM. FF14 is just one boss & zero trash bro, is not same thing (i am a FF14 player, 1,5 years on FF14 now)
You cant do Ultimate raids unsynced in ff14 you are forced to sync so the titel and the weapons will allways be a challenge to get. Becouse of this the BIS gear for lower lvl Ultimates are not the same as your BIS for your current lvl, some Ultimates even have dungeon gear as part of the BIS set.
While a challenge, they'll also still not be the same level challenge due to buffs and gear changes since gear sync is usually set to the weapon's ilvl which is usually 5 ilvls higher than the rest of the gear at the time so now the ilvl syncs all of the gear to that extra 5 ilvls.
@@writer_man5318 It's not the same level, no, but it's really still not that far off. Memorization, skill and flexibility will always be the main challenge.
the other thing is the gear synching is actually kind of jank for ultimates since it will fuck up the materia stats. Hence why people have dedicated BIS sets for each ultimate.
If a goldfish is drowning I have too many questions where I would be incapable of raiding. Possibly for the rest of the week. That is a great example. Lol
If nothing else, this video is a prime example in the difference in overall philosophy of the two dev teams. Your examples highlight the fact that Yoshi P's team design their game to be a hobby. Whereas Ian's team want their's to be a lifestyle.
@xouri That's another thing that's honestly designed intentionally at Blizzard. They've actively used psychology to find the best systems to keep people playing. The thing is, those systems aren't fun and don't have people playing because they WANT to but because they feel they NEED to.
Gotta be really hard trying to maintain a neutral stance when doing these comparisons. I've given up on it already. I can no longer pretend FFXIV isn't just objectively better than WoW in basically everything at this point.
I understand the logic behind it, but the idea of sitting on a bench roster for a mythic raid, is the dumbest thing. Who wants to pay to play a game where you grind for days to get RNG to prep for raid, just to sit there all night doing nothing, watching others raid, on the CHANCE they might bring you in to play? Miss me with that BS
What caught my eye for FF as a WoW player was the extreme raids. The mechanics looked (and are) super fun. I haven't done an extreme yet, probably never will, but I have finished the MSQ & really enjoy doing the dungeons/trials.
Give it a try! Don’t miss out, nothing to lose. Study the fight from a UA-cam video, get a group of like-minded players and try to clear for as long as it takes! I never knew I could have so much fun in a game until my first extreme. The sense of achievement is uncanny.
Raid in ffxiv nowadays getting easier, even pick up group can clear it after few tries or days. Long ago even number 1 static raider need 2 weeks or 1 month to clear the raid. My static were 3rd places in tonberry need a month at least.
14 knocks it so out of the park in terms of music. One thing I'm excited for about new raids isn't just the fights themselves or the loot, but the music. You should have seen me when I loaded into p8 the first time, I was going crazy
The absolute necessity of addons in WoW really makes me question encounter design as a whole. Yes, they might be fun, but they're created with addons in mind. Are those WoW fights as well designed if you remove Weak Auras? (this is an honest question)
You are right that the addons affect the design, as the devs build fights knowing they will be used. Fun is subjective. But personally, I found it less engaging, and a step removed from the experience in games where you respond more to visual and audio cues in the arena and to your party. As you learn the fight you internalize the timings naturally by yourself and this gives you the illusion you are really beating the boss. I began to think of my WoW raid UI as a kind of screen between me and the arena that distanced me emotionally. But also in FFXIV you can have the experience of what used to be 10 person raiding in WoW which many remember fondly because being with a smaller team does give a more personalized feel to the fight and makes you more aware of your team inside the arena. The 8-person team really makes a difference.
It's a bit of a design paradox for Blizz, I think. Because players CAN use addons like Weak Auras, they will. Because they will, Blizz has to design the fights under that assumption. If they don't do so, then the addons trivialize the fights. The results is some fights would probably be nearly impossible w/o addons. It's a complexity arms race.
I'm not 100% sure about this but I think the big issue isn't encounter design, it's the game itself. It's so old that it looks like adding good markers to mechanics would be extremely complicated so people have to rely on addons to show them what is going on. The raids have 20 people and I don't remember being able to completely turn off other people's spell effects, so that combined with how old the game looks makes it absurdly hard to notice what is happening without addons.
@@scotaloo77g73 old? I would say raiding and the design of wow raids is far better than ff14 plus the mechincs and how the chars feel to play is far better than ff14...the thing that let's wow down is having a mess of addons and weak auras all over the screen
From my experience, that's very far off the truth. I'd love to have seen you try beat E4S with a mix of Bard, Machinist, Dancer, Ninja and Red Mage at the start of Shadowbringers. I'd love to see it because it was statistically impossible. Honestly, it's not very far off from WoW's "bring the class", however it was easier to swap class. As for "need add-ons", just shows you've never done a WoW fight. You can do them without addons, they're just significantly more challenging fights thus people resort to addons to assist them in the challenging aspects. With addons, WoW fights are still on par if not harder than FF14's fights, and those addons don't just magically appear. You still have to learn the fight. If you're a latecomer to the raid, FF14 has an entire spreadsheet you can study before entering the fight so you know EVERYTHING the boss does in advance. So saying "follow directions of screen" applies to FF14 even more than WoW, since WoW has more randomized things you have to adapt to while FF14 is, as the spreadsheet indicates, 100% mapped out. Follow your spreadsheet opened on your second screen and you literally can't make a mistake other than doing bad dps.
@@joostleisder1956 You can't compare WoW raids to FF14 raids like that. WoW lets you cheese Mythic raids with gear over time. FF14's Ultimate doesn't. Week 12 Sylvanas is an excessively easier fight than Week 2 Sylvanas. Not so much Week 12 TEA versus Week 1 TEA.
character progression? hello? And its not like you can cheese mythic mechanics left and right, its like 1 time per raid tier? And it make some classes looks badass while doing it?... There are many strats, and sometimes different guild do stuff in other way...
@@joostleisder1956 Also: there's lots of randomized mechanics, which you 100% cannot plan out and overcome simply by reading a spredsheet. This is just not true. Have you raided on FF?
I think on release blind UwU > UCoB > TEA But with now with standardized guides and job changes and gear ilvl sync scaling from 80 to 70 TEA > UCoB >>> UwU The hardest part of TEA is wormhole prog but that's it IMO aside from living liquid doll memes. It being in the latter half of the fight helps makes progging it difficult.
@@MorpheusCh hardest part of tea is pressure, tea is extremely difficult to sabotage if anyone die since dps check is really tight, wormhole is really easy since we all have sim
I need to say, despite FF14 having blinding spell effects: It's still much easier for me to watch a fight and figure out what's going on. Meanwhile in WoW these days, I look at the fight and have no idea what's going on because everything blends together.
@@austins.2495 Honestly that's how I feel about ff14, with the difference being that every ability affect flashbangs you. FF14s artstyle is just so bland and uninspired, looking pretty much like every other eastern mmo out there.
@@FullMetalEdits it really doesnt. Maybe its artstyle is similar but thats because its cartoony (graphics and art style aren't the same thing). And honestly the ff14 artsyle reminds me of Raid, so...
WA just customizes the UI of what the game already shows you. Placing my buffs and debuffs closer to where i can see it instead of tiny in the corner doesn't play the game for me. Or in my case i change the visual indications of my spec procs into audio since i im susceptible to visual overload so i do what i can to keep it to a minimum
@@phatymcdaddy I’m talking about whatever he’s talking about that indicates exactly when and where to move in a raid so you don’t have to do any thinking for yourself
@@phatymcdaddy That is one way to use WAs, but you can use it in other ways too where it, combined with other admins (mostly DBM or BigWigs), tell you exactly what to do. Prime examples were fights where you had to pair up with another raid member who had the same debut as you, it'll tell you who to pair up with. They've had this all the way back to Gruul in TBC in 2007 where there were add-on that told you if you were too close to other raid members on the Shatter. FWIW, I love how I can customize my UI with WA for playing my class/spec with a very minimal UI, but I hate how it basically drives raiding.
As a long-time player of both games, agree 100% Quazii! In FF it takes 10x less the time investment and effort spent for a character to be Mythic-ready. Now, sure, both games have challenging bosses and the other opinions may be more objective, but in sheer time, yeah, FF is by far easier to maintain. I can't count how much time I dumped in Legion grinding out AP, M+ drops and Islands in BFA only to be barely stronger or eventually hit a time gate or fell on the wrong side of loot drops. In FF I can gear up, do other things, or even just take the time to enjoy other games - an option not really "offered" to you in WoW if you get past the Heroic level just for the amount of dailies you have to keep up with.
I appreciate this comment. I have experience in both games just not end game raiding and now I want to play one with the end goal to do some raiding but having a family I don’t have unlimited about of time to dump but I do have some time. Haha
Yes, you are allowed to play the music as long as the content said music is from is being shown on screen. So Quazii could play the UWU soundtrack while showing UWU content but not the WoW content.
That was something I didn't really like about WoW was trying to keep up on all my addons for optimization, and you were basically ostracized from raiding if you didn't have them. FFXIV doesn't make you rely on outside help to deal with mechanics
You never 'need' addons in WoW, it's for optimization indeed. It isn't required in FF14 because the fights are significantly easier. The first clearers throw everything down on a spreadsheet and anyone else can just study that spreadsheet, have it opened on a second screen, and they have their own addon right there because everything happens at the exact moment it shows on that spreadsheet in that exact order. And guess what: first WoW raiders don't have addons either, because they're the ones that have to learn the fight in order to make the addon in the first place. Addon vs spreadsheet, it's really no different, except that WoW fights are harder so the addon is 'needed' to ensure you don't get overwhelmed mid fight by the mechanics, while memorizing FF14 boss rotations for 10-15 minutes long isn't very challenging to someone who's.. well, been to school before and did the same for an exam.
When you started talking about how in WoW you need to bring specific classes for the buffs they bring but not in FF14, I was thinking "damn you're lucky you started during Shadowbringers" lol. I'm sure you've been told already, but before 5.0 some physical jobs could apply debuffs to enemies which would increase their slashing, piercing or blunt damage taken. Each physical job does one of those three types of damage. However not every physical job brings the debuff for the type of damage they deal. Most notably, Bard and Machinist dealt piercing damage, but only Dragoon had the piercing debuff. So if you wanted to bring a BRD or MCH, you automatically also had to bring a Dragoon because it was 5% of their damage (10% in Heavensward and ARR). You also needed at least one job which brought the slashing debuff (Warrior, Ninja or Samurai) because Paladin and Dark Knight did not have it, and since there were only 3 tanks back then, your comp would always have at least one of those two jobs. Blunt debuff was irrelevant since only Monk does blunt damage, and it had the blunt debuff. On top of this, aggro management was a thing back before Shadowbringers. Turning on tank stance used to reduce your damage dealt, so tanks wanted to be out of tank stance as much as possible to maximize their DPS, but this also lead to the need to manage aggro. Ninja had a buff which could redirect its own aggro onto another party member (basically Tricks of the Trade from WoW), as well as a buff which could reduce the aggro from another party member. So bringing a Ninja was essential for giving your tanks maximum DPS time, but you wanted a Ninja anyway because Trick Attack was broken af.
One upside of Wow raids is that the boss arena isn't limited to a circle every time. Depending on your preference, 25m can be better than 8m if you want less pressure for each mechanic.
Well the size alone in WoW can be a factor for difficulty... many players learn by doing and many mechanics in WoW just hit 1-2 players. So when you have 10+ DPS:ers, there's a chance/risk that some players never end up targeted by the mechanic leaving them clueless or unaware of a mechanic so they die/wipe raid because of it. In FFXIV it's pretty much impossible to not be targeted by a mechanic at some point in a fight, tbh. most of the time everyone have to deal with every mechanic(unless role specific)... which also can be really difficult. I like that limit and echo have fun progressing in FFXIV, personally i enjoy both styles of raiding and I'm glad they seem to do that aswell.
@@florianfeige6323 (2yrs later lol), can you name a ff14 fight that isn't just the circle or square arena? Even something just shaped differently like Ragnaros area
great video again! Actually I gave a shot to ffxiv thanks to one of yours videos :) What I like a lotabout ffxiv is that there is not lockout as for mythic in wow raid as you mentioned. Next is that you can go back to do old raids with downscale and fight it at aaalmost original power, when it was released (to get cosmetics etc), basically new player get sooo massive content, since they will want to do old raids for sure too! But the n. 1 thing, was that actually they are able to test their own game and players go to the new content blindly! In wow impossible, you know everything about each boss and almost everything about the story and if you dont want to spoil yourself, you will just slow down everyone on progress etc..... And as you said in wow weak auras and addons basicly hold your hand and guide you -.- Classes looks balanced as never seen in wow and as you said and even limit max have video about that - in wow you NEED to have classes on certain encounters and when max was done counting he had 1 or 2 spots for "any" spec. Rest was mandatory. Next thing which is awesome - 8player raids, this makes your group so much versatile about time. JOBS? Awesome system having all toons on 1 character, thats just epic! Gold saucer is pretty nice idea too, I wasted there so many time during leveling LOL. Dont even know why, but I enjoy collecting tripple triads or chocobo racing :D. In wow on the legion I managed to do max 1 toon, from bfa i didnt managed even that (If i wanted him to be ready for mythics raiding), on shadowlands I gave up on toon after 3 weeks because of all the chores you needed to do, again and again just to repeat the same thing all over again, which is not fun (torghast had sooo much potentional, I would say as much as m+ and they screw hard on it, to make it just "weekly" chores). In ffxiv you do short quest, then unique class quests (with even some kind of story), level up character and here you go! You can start learning the job and start gearing up :) I still love wow, but a lot of times it felt like wow tries to waste my time to get those "online players numbers", Instead of me want to waste my own time, to have fun in the game.
I myself find it fun to be able to optimise comps to make the fight easier, its like picking the best Pokémon to fight a specific gym leader :D. However, I can see arguments against it as some guilds may not have certain classes/jobs thus making the fights unbearable.
Really fair, truthful coverage of both raiding scenes! I didn't do any mythic raiding in WoW, but I experienced normal and heroic a lot so I can generally understand the points you are making from both sides. The way I see the two is that WoW's raiding difficulties fall too often on the wrong things like roster and gear gating, which really takes away from the experience that I personally want which is having fun fighting bosses and getting loot. FFXIV is in stark contrast where those issues are often a lot less crippling and there are just more challenging things to engage with across the entire history of the game. Oh and the music is no contest. The FFXIV team actually spends a lot of time syncing fights with the music, sometimes even down to the millisecond for important plot moments, and it just adds so much to the experience for me. The energy and excitement is never missing, and I love farming bosses just to listen to the themes more.
Roster and gear gating - so many hurdles for raiders just to get in the door - roster, gear, AP grinds, rep grinds, daily grinds, M+ spam for RNG trinkets, Torghast runs, Islands, and we're not talking even mythic raiding here, just your average heroic team that wants to raid twice a week and beat a few bosses. Most of us are not Olympic gymnasts training for ten years to do a 2 minute floor routine we just want to get in there and fight the boss please. But those hurdles weren't even training which might make sense although it would still be backwards, it was just required farming so we could all raid.
FFXIV static drama... (*Proceed to remember that time when a love triangle happened where this guy tried to get in between a couple ended up with static disbanding) ...yeah FFXIV static drama is horrible
lol Static drama is always there, I had one where 2 people happened to live close to eachother in a static, they met up and started dating. Then some drama happened in the background between them both and it destroyed the static. lol Was hilarious.
@@Wrendy2k7 my last static was destroyed by a dude breaking up with his gf and leaving, then another static member simping for her hard trying to get with her. Basically it fell apart because he was too creepy and no one wanted to be there anymore.
@@scoobiusmaximus9508 oh god that's just... ugh. Some people are just absolute creeps... plus it's also another reason why I don't play with couples in statics it always ends badly.
By the end of my wow career all I did was raid log. Every wednesday we did the content and I barely touched the game outside of raiding. Pet battles brought some life since it was something that I could sink some time in and it felt like playing a pokemon game. :D But that alone wasn't enough to keep my interest up. Playing the game was a chore, a 2nd job without pay at worst. Raid comps switched left and right every tier. Sometimes you need hunters, sometimes rogues, sometimes warlocks. I always frowned at the need of "meta" classes. This caused some to quit or leave the guild, because they happened to main a certain class and now they were stuck on bench for the choice they made long ago. Even I had to reroll into a hunter once to cement a guaranteed roster spot during MoP.... I actually tried to return to WoW during classic, but the raid "meta" was horrible. The content is easy enough to do, but everyone wants to cut corners and stack mages. I'm happy that I achieved doing all the content on the highest level that was available at the time... But the grind wore me out and I haven't touched Wow seriously in 6 years. Well, maybe I spent 2 months in classic... I do like to watch people play WoW, but I have a love and hate relationship with the game :D If someone asked me what MMO he/she should play. I wouldn't recommend WoW... Which is kinda sad as it kinda is among my favourite games of all time. Why else would I had sinked so much time into it in my teenage/young adult years :D WoW could learn a lot from FF14. Just like FF14 has learned a lot from WoW.
The "must-bring" specs/class/job issue was more prevalent in stormblood Most common example was Dragoon + Bard due to their synergy. Must-Have Ninja for its Trick Attack was another big one. Thankfully Shadowbringers doesn't really have that anymore
Yeah, that's always been meta speedrun/racing stuff. You could always clear any content fine with any comp. The worst was when debuffs were a thing, but even then it wasn't a big deal.
@@Axemninja he said they were must haves in Stormblood and back then it was 100% true. I remember a time when there were literally 0 clears of UCoB without a Bard because Bard gave the healers MP. The standard dps raid comp from basically mid- ARR to the end of Stormblood was Bard, Dragoon, and Ninja with the 4th spot changing based on the fight and the most recent balance patches. You saw basically no variance there. Warrior was basically the required tank as well that entire time, but DRK got several rounds of buffs throughout Stormblood to the point that it eventually became somewhat competitive at the end. Warrior was the only tank that ever pulled anything until DRK was sufficiently buffed because their tank stance was oGCD and their burst aggro generation was by far the best of all tanks. You didn't see many DRKs for most of Stormblood because they did less damage and had less utility than Paladin and nothing could compete with Warrior. You didn't see Paladin in HW because it couldn't take magic attacks. Game balance used to suck. It was never at WoW levels from what I understand, but the meta used to be a lot more defined and oppressive.
@@Axemninja There's definitely no must bring, but there were a couple of "must not bring" jobs. 2.0 WAR, HW PLD and MNK, and 3.0-3.5 AST were major oof.
@@thomaswood8405 i mean.. with that list of "must not bring" you already have a "must bring" tank in heavensward, and most bring Melee DPS in Heavensward.(sure its a soft bring with some wiggle room) Tanks woudl be Warrior and DRK(or even 2 Warriors given how i heared DRK was bad during most of HW and SB) Melee DPS would be either Ninja or Dragoon, you also needed/wanted a ranged physical DPS for the MP thingy(forgot the name)so healers could actualy heal. If you picked Dragoon as one of the likely 2 DPS slots, you already made the Choice for the optimal "Must have" Ranged physical DPS of Bard. I think the fourth DPS was the one most flexible and mostly depending on fight iirc but most likely would be a Caster. Every other combination WILL WORK most likely with enough effort, but if you want the optimal/reasonable choiches(aka not choosing classes which where considerd "bad"/must not bring as well as not wasting any Raid buffs or Boss debuff(like iirc the Piercing defence down the dragoon could inflict that made bard so optimal)) then you had the tanks set, the Melee DPS set, and the Ranged DPS set. Meaning out of 8 spots, 5 Where more or less set, leaving 1 DPS(likely caster, so 1 of 2 Classes) and Healers 2 out of 3 Classes
@@Axemninja The "must bring" was not exactly a "must" but more a synergy matter. If you had a Dragoon it was better if you had a BRD so they both could take profit from the piercing debuff. Yeah you could go with a MCH instead but that was a "dps loss and it would bring "toxicity" to light and this "we dont want this class or that class" kind of comments. So getting rid of that was actually good for the community.
I have never done ultimate, but I was a part of an Extreme raid group with my FC 2 years ago. Unfortunately, since I work in the medical field, when the world event happened I was so stressed out and I felt like Extreme raiding was just adding to my stress. It was no longer fun. So I told my raid that I couldn't raid anymore and why. They were very understanding and I am still a member of the same FC. I'm glad there was no drama because I was stressed out as it was. (BTW, I'm not a doctor or a nurse, I work among the support staff so save most of the respect for doctors and nurses. They have it even worse than paper pushers like me.)
Seems like a lot of people in comments haven't played at cutting edge level in wow, or dont even understand how the mechanics work that weakauras are used to. No they dont blame game for you. End bosses still have hundreds wipes on them, because you need to learn the fight. Some mechanics like in video queen azhara and debuffs would be undoable for with out weakaura. If ff14 had as well addons like bigwigs and weakauras, most of the ultimate fights would A LOT easier. The fight are just made in mind that people dont have them, like fights in wow are made knowing that players have these tools.
Gonna be honest. I never considered a game/raid that depends on outside add-ons to achieve goals to be a positive thing. It's great as an aid or something to make things easier, but when it becomes something you have to have just to clear content then a dev somewhere dropped the ball.
Yeah, that was one of the biggest reasons I left WoW. I wanted to do end game content for the first time, but I was A) Not spected the right way. B) Need to download DBM just to play the game.
oh bullshit. In last 4 expansions, the raid helping addons were necessery maybe in 2-3 fights. If you needed them to play every encounter then you didnt know the fight well and the fault is on you.
While I agree about the class balance between the 2 games, gota remember 2 more things that really makes/break things. 1 - In WoW not only are there classes that are mandatory for said things, but Blizzard most certainly purposely designs some classes to simply do WAY more damage than other classes during certain patches/updates, and by a RIDICULOUS amount that bringing certain classes is actually detrimental. In FFXIV the jobs a reletively well designed that where, yes while there is a bit of a DPS disparity, jobs have certain design/utility/etc within them to make up for the gap with the entire raid group, and has been proven by many players that any job combination can clear any content. The only thing FFXIV group avoid is bringing 2 of the same job and stacking certain roles too many times (Meta make up is of course 2 tank, 2 healer, 2 melee dps, 1 caster and 1 ranged). 2 - In relation to the first reason, in FFXIV, you can play EVERY job with 1 character. Meaning if you have put in the time and effort to level multiple jobs and manage to gear them alongside your main job, you can fill any role, any job, anytime, as long as you can play said job well of course, and the game itself has content to help people level up alt jobs on 1 character reletively quick to max level even after you finish the Main Scenario Quest. In WoW it is 1 character 1 class, so for people with limited time will find themselve almost have NO chance of joining mythic raid groups purely for the class they play, no question asked. Of course you can level multiple alts to cover for this, but the timegate, chore-ghast, MANDATORY daily/weekly over multiple alt will become a intense headache to keep up with. This simply adds even more flexibility with raiding in FFXIV as a whole, even in ultimate fights because of how content and jobs are designed by the dev team, thus everyone has equal chance and opportunity to do every content in the game and the only thing stopping them is their own confidence or time. WoW's wall to simply get into mythic raiding near impossible for MANY players, casuals or people with basic real life commitment (like working) have almost no chance of finding the time to grind and do mandatory things JUST to gear up enough to do mythic content.
There are no right or wrong opinions when it comes to subjective stuff like 'visual design' and how much you like transitions from phases. Except for music. There are wrong opinions about which game has better music.
Great video! From my experience I've played wow since original wotlk since then I played on and off I missed SL, BFA and most of legion. On my ff14 experience Ive only played till past ARR (yes I'm a complete noob). I will immediately say that on wow I've never been a fan of pve and only ever did PVP but in DF I dabbled in mythic + which I enjoy. First thing is raiding in wow I've only done LFR and I have done that across most the expansions I played but predominately PVP. It felt like wow has a lot of gatekeeping behind normal/heroic/mythic raids anything that wasn't queue-able felt very hard to get into it unless you made your own group, this is another reason I missed out on wow pve as with the PVP it was very simple queue and join or find 1 person maybe 2 and boom u got ur arena team. Since playing ff14 the pve I find is extremely intuitive, fun and engaging.. I liked how the mechanics were shown quite obviously whereas I find wow mechanics they're not obvious at all I mean ofc they're swirlys n such but other than the STEP OUT of this mechanic the others weren't obvious and was always needing to watch a guide before hand especially with mythic + as well. Anyway going back to ff the pve kept me engaged and I just found the speed of it to be relaxed and chilled ofc that's early days but for me as a true PVP player I hadn't even dabbled into PVP on FF since I'm on free trial i will be buying dawntrial and get a go of their daily bgs so I'd have to say it was very interesting seeing a veteran of both games asses them and give an unbiased opinion. Very good video.
Generally a nice comparison, lots of the stuff mentioned is very factual. As for the addon side I will just mention WA and DBM/Bigswigs (or other external tools) are not needed to clear mythic, thing is right these tools are used cause 'path of least resistance' (either have to think or can smash red button choice is yours), a lot of these tools are generally being used as a lot of people A. Do not trust their co raiders to play flawlessly B. Managing 20 people to do the same thing is rough (even in business) C. The Era of pure raiders/pvp players in WoW is mostly gone, making is so that to have an 'equal' playing field people want to use the same advantage others got. An everyday example: If you would need to do the dishes and got choice out of two options 1. Doing them by hand or 2. use the Dishwashing machine, what is the choice you will pick, more oftendly then not most people will choose for option 2 why? cause its easier does it for them and they don't need to care about it anymore. same rule of thumb goes to the addon part of WoW
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I play both games (mainly WoW) and comparisons of stuff like mechanics or difficulty or visuals don't matter, they are great in both games. But stuff like raid music, barrier of entry into endgame content and maintaining the roster (or even pugging) are all on the side of final fantasy. I really hope WoW devs can improve on some of these things, mainly the amount of mindless gameplay you have to do before you can get into m+ and raids.
That was one of the things I was also thinking about. Especially if your doing the older stuff and not cutting edge you can always swap. If you loose your healer for example you can change from a DPS to healer (Provided to have the gear) for that raid and find a DPS to step in. In wow if you, for the prot paladin example, loose him then you NEED another geared prot paladin. And if you beat it with an alt, you still need to do it on your main for progress. A good example I have is back when I was WoW raiding there was Leotheras the blind that you needed a warlock tank with high FR to deal with. I had that warlock... As my alt, I needed to log off my main Prot pally for the raid in order to get that warlock to tank that one boss. So I had an alt that I geared, had him sit with a certain spec to tank one boss, that got nothing from it.
As someone who likes different games, do you have opinions how GW2 does raids? Ofc we don't know if Strikes (10man raid like single boss) will be the new raids in End of Dragons ... here I'm hoping more raids. Edit: no more raids just more strikes :
We have HTCM and Cerus LM now though :D I know different then raids, but htcm took 5 days prog to kill for world 1st and cerus LM almost 9 days to kill for world 1st, imo strike cm's (and legendary modes from now on fingers crossed) are supperior over raids in gw2 in terms of diffuculty! Not sure if you are still playing but you should give those strikes a shot
If you talk about difficulty, with the condition that players are at the best possible ilvl that they are in for the highest level of raiding, then in my opinion Mythic Raiding is Easier than Ultimate raiding. And it's simply because Mythic raiding there is Weakaura and a whole bunch of addons added into the mix to make things easy for you. While there are external addons in FFXIV too, but it's not actually like WA or DBM etc. FFXIV is also visually hard to distinguish some mechanics, like you can actually miss some mechanics because of your positioning, even if you are warned to move out of it before hand. As such, i think FFXIV is much harder compared with WoW for raiding.
After playing both I disagree to a point. I'd say Mythic raids are a different type of difficulty because of how WoW is set up. FFXIV mechanics are basically a dance and most of the time has little to no variation on them, now in recent years that has changed somewhat but the script is still there for FFXIV that mechanics will almost always go off at certain times so I feel they can be easier to perform as you are just repeating the dance until you get it done. Now the mechanics themselves can be punishing and hard but because of little variation I feel most people can get to grips of them. (What I mean by this is a random factor.) WoW is very different as its raid mechanics are extremely randomised and one pull will be entirely different to another due to how mechanics work. So this adds a more random element to the mechanics which adds a layer of difficulty. This is purely my opinion and I mainly raid on FFXIV currently going through TEA right now, but yeah I prefer FFXIV over WoW but I wouldn't say FFXIV highest difficulty raids are harder than WoWs but moreso they have a different type of difficulty which in my opinion makes them easier to learn. (They are in no way "easy" just easier than WoW)
@@Wrendy2k7 Whether a mechanic is randomized or not doesn't change much. A basic puddle is still a basic puddle and a basic soak is still a basic soak. WoW mechanics are extremeIy simple due to the raid size and pretty much all of the difficulty comes from "overtuned" bosses. If their raids were tuned just like FF raids are tuned, the world first race would end within a couple hours.
@@scotaloo77g73 this. Mythic raiding core difficulty is increased boss health and damage done. There are some additional mechanics added here or there, but still they are doable with ease and with WA, it makes them ridiculously easy. I remember progging on Sire D and my guildies were just dying to the puddles that spawn from the 2nd phase adds, then we all downloaded a particular WA that makes a sharp slicing sound when an add dies and immediately everyone is awake and aware of this mechanic. But when it comes down to damages dealt, we were still not able to get past some of these mechanics since the healers are either not good enough or dps is just not high enough to end the fights.
@@chinaman1 See yeah I see what you are coming from, but I am in a different mindset and find ffxiv mechanics easier just because its so structured and rarely any variation. But hey like I said it's just my opinion at the end of the day. This sort of thing is purely subjective.
I am late watching the video. But thanks for explaining. Luckily FFXIV doesn’t gate keep so much. At least with Yoshi P still heading the team, the core value is still making the SE board happy while also making the game fun rather than a chore. And does not greedily tie you to only one game. It’s not perfect but I am happy. Plus,I get time off to experience other games from SE as well. 😂
Nonsense. Square is just lazy and they brutally cut down the content since years and streamline everything. That's all. There is overall simlpy much less content and it's a lot copy/paste and always the same. When you look at the WoW raid, there are so many different fights by the arena alone. It's always a circle or square in FF14. Meanwhile FF14 raid aren't even fights. It's more Dance Dance Revolution. You go in blind without any info (WoW itself gives you the info what the Boss is doing, even without using any mods) and then die your way through until you got the 99% scripted fight and learn the dance routine. Using mods to tell you what to do makes FF14 fights a hell lot easier. Meanwhile even if you use all the mods you can in WoW, it's still heavily challenging while you overall got way more freedom. FF14 being scripted as it is, rarely gives you any choice. You follow the dance or you wipe. Such fights are simlpy way easier to design - typical for Square and also the reason why they are all the same. When the game started, they had played around with ideas how to even make dugneons bosses different. But that's too much work, the don't care anymore.
@@joostleisder1956 Doubt. Limit and Echo both lack the experience of blindprogging Ultimates. Blind progging Ultimate is a must-have experience to even come close to world first.
What an amazing video. This video serves a great deal for those that are wondering about both raids. I have one question though. Now that you have quit WoW and as you spend longer time with FFXIV, do you worry that WoW becoming a stranger to you as the day goes by? I ask because this happened to me when I left AION back in 2013 for FFXIV. After a year, I was no longer an expert to the former MMORPG. And I recently looked at AION and it has completely changed to a point where I couldn't recognise anything anymore.
Great comparison :) wow overall is just so tedious. You literally can't do anything BUT work on your raiding toons or you will fall behind. In FF you can have so much more than just raiding. I clear savages within their respective tiers, and I have time for side content, glamour farming, mount farming, maps and just hanging out with people. The whole Ishgardian Restoration is a great example really, it's a GIANT chunk of content specifically for crafters and gatherers, dedicated to restoring the main city from 2 expansions ago just because. If it was wow it'd be mandatory and provide some advantage to those who are doing it, and it'd be a huge chore. In FF people are doing it because it provides some nifty cosmetics and because they love Ishgard and want to help the place many still regard as their home/favorite city.
That's far from true lol. I played from launch of shadow lands til castle release completed the raid on heroic stopped playing for months ... Fell way behind went back and within a week of casual play was caught back up and doing mythic in the current patch, while still mount farming, mog farming, etc
This sounds like someone who doesn't know shit about WoW. You can definitely mount and transmog farm while raiding a current tier. FF14 does do professions way better though.
@@DMG_MTG true, sadly most every MMORPG does. Wow for some reason hasn't been able to make professions relevant since TBC...been one of my biggest complaints for years
thanks for sharing your thoughts about raiding between the two games, as a vet FF player with no WoW experience, it's really insightful to see the differences! my only feedback here regards 17:00 where you talk about the 'purists' saying its not how the fight would have felt when relevant. As an in-game mentor, I react this way towards sprout players who queue up old Extreme content or sometimes 24-player raids with no clue on what they are getting into. When we explain how to do mechanics, they don't understand and ignore it or just say they will learn by seeing it more. When veteran players end up with it in Duty Finder, they may not necessarily have the time to commit 1-hour of progression and then they are the ones having to adjust to deal with all the mechanics or surviving long enough to build up echo just to carry the others through. of course this is different to Ultimates and Savage, and a static group progressing in that content deserves their pride when they clear the content! My sentiment is just to be respectful to who you play with and if you are going in to do old Extremes, party finder is the go-to for learning and progression. Sorry for my long rant :'D thanks again for the video!!
I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying. While UwU is not an easy fight by any stretch of the imagination, the game has aged past it and things like potency and eHP creep have taken away a significant amount of teeth UwU had in its prime; its not uncommon to say if you've done E8S, you can do UwU - putting it on the scale of harder savage fights. When he says "for the purists" he just means he's addressing the people who already give his opinion less weight because he's talking about UwU in Shadowbringers, rather than UwU in Stormblood.
In WoW they use a bunch of mods, whereas FFXIV they don't. Raid design in both games is designed based on this. So a legitimate comparison would be impossible.
You are right in the sense that most groups like having war for HG, but I'd like to point out that in the race to world first of TEA, Sfia themselves said that they ran drk over war because WAR mechanically doesn't benefit from CRIT or DHR buffs from bards which they switched to from dancer because dancer requires your partner to play out of their gourd to be worth having. So there are significant advantages to both tanks and I think this is much better balanced than implied in the video. It's part of what I love about this game is that the devs care more about each classes balance because they have to. You don't have 3 specs per class to work with so you have to try and find a good place for every single job.
I don't have experience with WoW Mythic raids, just...everything up to Pandaria. In terms of raiding for the first few expansions for WoW and FFXIV...every FFXIV player has the potential to have every class leveled and geared on a single character. This means if you're used to raiding with a ninja, but the girl who normally plays is on a date, someone else can easily replace her role at any given moment. That being said, anyone who knows anything about WoW raiding can attest to the difference between 10-man raiding and 25-man/40-man raiding...representation. When at least 1 member of every class is represented, the raiding experience is made that much easier (WoW had 9-11 different classes for 10-40man content, FFXIV has 17 different classes for 8-24man content), and when the raid crew is larger, raid bosses are made significantly easier. Woe be unto the single warlock or mage in a 40-man who not only had to empty all of their bags before a raid to spend the hour before a raid summoning up health stones and food/water. I never understood why WoW's 10-man raid gear was lower quality than 25-man raid gear, when 25-mans were easier and faster to do with experienced players. As far as fun goes, I had significantly more fun in WoW raids like Karazhan where the path to the final boss was littered with optional bosses and secret passages, since it felt more like a raid on a spooky mansion, and players could choose where to go, based on how much time players were allowed for their daily lives. Most other raids like Onyxia and Molten Core were the standard D&D-style of giant dungeon combat: pull small groups of trash mobs and kill them individually, slowly following a big obvious path until you get to a Big Bad and you do a thing to get loot, repeat. FFXIV is more of the same, just with more "PULL EVERYTHING, KILL EVERYTHING AT ONCE" tactics in between the Big Bads, a TONNE of classic Asian RPG impressive visual environments but invisible walls and linear paths, fun combat, great music that I actually want to listen to more often than not, and fun boss battles with increased difficulty based on the level of the raid (level 50 raids are super basic and easy with one or two insta-kill mechanics, level 80 raids are more complicated with lots of instant-kill mechanics). Oh, and some FFXIV raids have Egoraptor's Megaman ideas: some of the trash pulls in a raid will have mechanics similar to what you will encounter with the upcoming boss, thus teaching you innately through combat in a relatively relaxed place.
Before we even start: You better bring up how WoW uses crap like Weak Auras and DBM and that kinda stuff is ALLOWED, whereas it's not in FF14. So FF14 content is designed to be run without the assistance of third party software and WoW's is designed to be run WITH third party software assistance. As such WoW's fights can be made harder.... but.... are you really even fighting the boss at that point? Half the work is being done FOR you. Edit: wait, Denathrius just pulled a Kefka though >.>
One thing to note as well in the difference is the personal difficulty of raids. With 20 people there's lower personal responsibility because asking 20 people to flawlessly follow a fight is a larger ask than 8. With 8 each person has multiple mechanics to resolve and can easily wipe the party if a single person is out of position or dies during a mech.
20-man raids vs 8-man raids. Biggest difference? Probably 8/20 of the raiders in my WoW guild are worth a crap. Less dead weight = doing harder content with less effort trying to carry others over that threshold to winning.
Seems like WoW mythic raiding is artificially made difficult - not because mythic raiding is hard (because it seems FF and WoW are equal in the content department), but the devs placed a lot of artificial barriers to access mythic raiding.
Hardest thing about WoW raiding is limitations tbh: - First you need 20 decent players. - Then those players need to have the "right classes/specs"(Ain't strange to see mythic raiders play multiple characters). - Gear drops is a significant factor. It ain't strange that people get "stuck" with poor items and some stuff increase your output significantly, some tier set bonuses in the past could increase dps output by 10-15%, now It's instead replaced by domination shards which is/was even harder to properly setup. - Then having 20 people stay focused for a full raid and paying attention to mechanics that may or may not hit them. Sure at the end of a "season" alot of these factors irons out, since gear makes it easier, good players can then "carry" less optimal players etc. But if you want to do the raids and progress them early on, there's always some hurdles to overcome which is often out of a players controll. I spent most of the last expansion cursing my shamans "weapon situation", I never got any weapons from anything... Then i also was cursed with the "Wail of shadows" curse, all my drops were; Cloaks... from all the sources. So my shaman(main character) was always about 20-30 ilvl's behind my Paladin. When i play FFXIV many of these issues are just "not there", there's a BiS list which eventually gets completed and It mostly boils down to skill when it comes to any role. Sure I don't mind playing a different job if It's better for a encounter, but It's not like in WoW where i have to log on a different character entierly or remain benched on raid night. Being a restoration shaman main sure had It's perks since they have worthwhile utility, but so had my holy paladin and disc priest... Simply put it was a mess.
i know some people who left wow for FF. The main reason for them to leave wow was the time and they how wow plays. The time to gear up in wow is massive not like in FF where you can easy get gear. ANother point was they said bosses in wow are to hard to play with all mechanics you must remember and a small mistake kills you or your grp. For myself i exp FF as a much softer and easier game then wow. Bosses wherent that hard to beat. And mistakes wont kill mostly your grp but only you. but i see FF is a more story fokused game and the main fokus is more on custimzing your hero. For myself i like wow more mostly because of the grafik settings like in some playing in some kind of comic. FF ist for myself not good looking, but the bosses are something else
As a player who raided in mythic and savage / ultimate (UWU and TEA also delubrium savage) i can tell who ff14 savage and ultimate are by far more hard they have more mechanics adjusted dps check and if someone mess it up can end on wipe meanwhile on wow u can kill a boss whit half of the party dead.
I gotta say, I don't miss WoW whatsoever. I quit at the end of tier 1 MoP (came back for one month to kill Garrosh) and even by that point I was so burned out of everything. You'd find a great raid guild, you'd clear the heroics (highest content at the time), then the group would break up even if no drama. Then you'd have to spend weeks sending out job applications and doing interviews to find a new guild. You'd HAVE to do reputation grinds to get BiS enchants which were boring and time gated. Because of no syncing like you said, there was no "Ulduar was fun, let's go do that at min ilvl now that we have this new content on farm". And honestly, not sure if Legion, BfA, or Shadowlands changed anything, but I felt like the raid mechanics were getting pretty bland. Like, Ulduar had a few really cool and unique fights, and Firelands was amazing (Alysrazor is still one of my favorite fights of all time), but overall in a tier with 13 fights there would be maybe two to three fun and unique ones. Even when they were fun they often weren't replayable. It was more like yay we got the kill, now let's never come back. Meanwhile in FF14 I've been farming Levi Unreal for faux leaves since it came out and I'm still not tired of it, and that's one of the oldest/worst fights in the game.
Not wishing to be like "oh Quazii arguments aren't because blablabla'' I know nothing about WoW, my only ever MMO was FFXIV, but hearing that WoW raids are large 30ish people group, wouldn't comparing DRS maybe be better to compare? It would be closer to compare due to the amount of players needed for the fight 🤔
Comparing the amount of people needed to do a raid doesn't inherently mean that it's a direct comparison to the actual substance behind said content which may explain why he hasn't compared DRS to the mythic raids.
When it comes to things like mechanics, yes because there's mechanics you just can't give to a group of 20 people but in terms of difficulty they're nowhere even close. It's a completely different type of content.
It's also worth noting that WoW raids are constantly buggy (even with a ptr). Also WoW doesn't have to have a high barrier of entry, the devs just like wasting your time on garbage systems that don't need to exist.
I think the community plays a large part of barrier to entry to raids too. You can have perfectly acceptable gear to be in the raid and all the groups reject you because you are not in full heroic gear trying to run a heroic.
Only time I would go extremes/savages with pug is at release, since everyone goes blind. I am too lazy to read/watch guides, and it is much more fun to solve the mechanics with your team. Mechanics are rarely too hard to figure out quite fast. With guides it feels like cheating, since fights are so heavily scripted that you can almost do them blind folded if you just memorize the patterns - so it kind of takes the fun away from doing it.
There was actually one moment in FFXIV's history where there was a "bring the job" moment to cheese a mechanic. Zurvan had a mechanic called soar, which was honestly not exceptionally difficult but skipping mechanics is inarguably easier than doing them properly. The first soar could be skipped by appropriate dps, and the second soar was handled by tank invulns and tank LB. This was the only fight I can think of where non level 3 tank LB had a use. Anyway, WAR, who up until this point was tank god king, found itself passed up over PLD, who was the expansion's punching bag because WAR's invuln required a target to activate while PLD didn't.
I'm still finishing the MSQ for FF14 and I'd agree with most of what you say. You forgot to mention the absolute chore in Shadowlands that has been getting sockets for your gear.
Perhaps WoW Mythic is more similar to Delubrum savage instead of ultimate? Though I don't know which one is more chaotic, progging ultimates or Delubrum savage
@@Riku2005 When people talk about mythic raiding they talk about raiding for the Cutting Edge achievment which you can only get by clearing the raid before the next raid tier gets released. So while you obviously are stronger at the end of the tier compared to the beginning of the tier, the fight just gets a little easier and not easy and when the next tier gets released and the gear gets so strong that you dont have to properly play the fights anymore the raid is already irrelevant and no one cares if you clear it or not.
@@Riku2005 You're right that you can't go in unsynced and that item level caps exist, but if you waited until 5.0s lifespan of job reworks or a year and a bit after TEAs release to hop in (bozja relic customization), you do have the luxury of having to worry significantly less about the DPS checks.
Every time I heard people complaining about FFXIV classes balancing, I'm convinced FFXIV is the only MMO they have played.
Yeah. XD so far the FFXIV balancing is really really good.
Same goes with most complaints tbh. None of them would complain about anything in the game if they saw the current state of the other mmos.
So true it hurts.
@@ridleyroid9060 the homogenization used to bother me more than it does now. I played The Secret World heavily and that game didn't even have classes, you just chose 2 weapons and could make a build out of any and all learned skills. So in comparison, XIV felt restrictive. I feel like the "over-balancing" in XIV actually blends with the game's overall design of respecting the players' time. You never have to worry about not being able to spend your time how you want because of your choice of job or gameplay style.
Probably only game they have ever played, most mmo players just play one mmo and thats about it.
I think i remember reading that the more elaborate phase transitions in XIV are that way to give people a break between phases.
This is especially true for Ultimates.
I'd rather have a transition that gives me a bit of time to breathe after 8 minutes of absolute mayhem.
A few things you didn't mention is: no downtime between tries in FF14, the encounter length being longer in FF, and the difference in difficulty
Ok. New to raiding. What is downtime?
@@longboi3426 basically time spent preparing to fight a boss again after failing to kill it the first time. Buffing up again, pots, repairs, stuff like that
"His or her goldfish is drowning" ...
guess I need to call Greg.. or maybe Bob to check if surgery is still available.
OH SHIT PTSD. I AM FISH.
As a veteran of the 40-man raid era... it was a disaster. I got Horde-first (edit: on Perenolde, not worldwide) MC/BWL clears in vanilla and there was no night where getting 40 people together wasn't a massive exhausting undertaking. I hated it so much. It really taught me how much better a smaller, tightly-focused raid is than managing a battalion of people.
It was horrible. Then again I remember doing 100 man raids in Everquest, keeping 100 people focused for hours to do Plane of Earth boss in EQ was unreal.
There is a 56 man raid in XIV that requires alot of organization unless its full of people who exactly know whats going on
@@qlcrane8019 iirc its 48 Man(the Southern Front Final instanced dungeon you mean right?)and from experience you dont normaly que for it with 48 People but between 24-48
This wouldn't be as much of an issue in the modern era, as classic has already proven. Back in the days you got 'Horde-first MC/BWL', you just invited anyone who was willing to play because you had no way of measuring if someone was good (everyone was new) and you were limited to players on your realm. Someone with a pulse that had enough time to spend going into the raid was a 'Horde-first MC/BWL' player. Nowadays, there's a plethora of methods of ensuring you know 1. the player is experienced and 2. there's at least 40 players present, days in advance of the actual raid. Classic had an insane amount of 40-man guilds and even organized pugs running around clearing everything within an hour or two at the same time every week.
@@joostleisder1956 Our Horde balance on Perenolde was low, like 5:1 Alliance:Horde, so having a pulse was indeed enough to get me in the door for Luci attempts. Once we cleared that the arrangement shifted to a three-guild alliance among my guild (Champions of the Horde) and two others and we formed a vetted, stable roster with a small bench. Even still, we did have nights where were needed to grab random folks to fill out, say, Vael attempts (because people loved to mysteriously have conflicts during that one). Perenolde's Horde balance was so bad that no Horde group ever cleared AQ40 or Naxx in vanilla. It was an odd place to be.
It's worth noting that TEA makes UWU look and feel like a little baby boss. When comparing the most difficult content in the game this is something to think of.
This.
@Lucas Clara The Epic of Alexander, currently the hardest ultimate boss fight in the game.
@Lucas Clara The Epic of Alexander, most recent ultimate in the game
I've done both and I can't agree more. TEA is the only content left with somewhat of a dps check and is also by design extremely unforgiving. Someone died on wormhole? Well better hope it's not a healer or someone whose mitigation was needed because good luck recovering for the stack damage, double mega holy and BJ's J waves. Even on perfect alex if your group is under average a single healer or tank death can mean dying to enrage. And I reckon it used to be harder even.
I think the amount of clearing TEA is still not as long as what Max said in WOW. Tho I don't think taking longer time to clear make the content better.
whenever a raid drops we dont even have a dps meter for a good day or two, let alone cactbot.
the couple days of Solving the fights are great. Until the community comes up with general strats that PUGs can do.
"His or her goldfish is drowning"
or rolling out the window with the bowl
edit: about song copyright at least for FFXIV, iirc song accompanied by relevant gameplay should not be problem.
"My pool caught on fire"
Last words from a guildie that never logged back on anywhere again.
I think the transitions being long in FFXIV makes sense and helps. Because the Ultimate fights in FFXIV are gauntlets and are significantly longer than any WoW raids (TEA itself is about 18 minutes), the longer downtime helps gives players a bit of breathing room and reprieve from the next onslaught of mechanics.
It also helps them "reset" their brains and prep for the next phase's mechanics.
WoW's had 15-minute fights. Heck, the most recent one, Sylvanas, is 15 minutes as well.
@@joostleisder1956 yea and ff has savage raids with 15 mins lenght so. titan in e4s is 14+ mins, e8s over 14 mins, e12s over 18 mins(with cutscene, without 16,5 mins), every omega raid last tier stage is around 14 mins. every last tier raidboss has a equal batlle duration of pure mechanics, thats also the reason why uwu is considered the easiest ultimate, its just abit longer than e12s, same transition duration(or close the same), just faster mechanics to solve. so uwu is more like a harder savage content, like super savage, fight duration is around 16,5 mins, ucob holds the beer with 19 mins and alex with 18 mins.
Sha of Fear: Am i a joke to you?
WoW raids are a succession of 10/13 boss + lots of trahs mob is 4h per night during 3/4 day per week during 2/3/4 or more weeks for clean a raid HM/MM.
FF14 is just one boss & zero trash bro, is not same thing (i am a FF14 player, 1,5 years on FF14 now)
re: music - one of my favourite musical sync ups in an ultimate raid is in ucob, when Answers goes 'witness, suffer', Bahamut will cast flare breath.
You cant do Ultimate raids unsynced in ff14 you are forced to sync so the titel and the weapons will allways be a challenge to get.
Becouse of this the BIS gear for lower lvl Ultimates are not the same as your BIS for your current lvl, some Ultimates even have dungeon gear as part of the BIS set.
While a challenge, they'll also still not be the same level challenge due to buffs and gear changes since gear sync is usually set to the weapon's ilvl which is usually 5 ilvls higher than the rest of the gear at the time so now the ilvl syncs all of the gear to that extra 5 ilvls.
@@writer_man5318 It's not the same level, no, but it's really still not that far off. Memorization, skill and flexibility will always be the main challenge.
the other thing is the gear synching is actually kind of jank for ultimates since it will fuck up the materia stats. Hence why people have dedicated BIS sets for each ultimate.
I heard people are still using ShB materia because it's better for TEA
If a goldfish is drowning I have too many questions where I would be incapable of raiding. Possibly for the rest of the week. That is a great example. Lol
I hope Quazii gets to see the Exdeath transition in O4S someday.
If he ever wants to do ucob, he'll have to.
If nothing else, this video is a prime example in the difference in overall philosophy of the two dev teams.
Your examples highlight the fact that Yoshi P's team design their game to be a hobby. Whereas Ian's team want their's to be a lifestyle.
@xouri That's another thing that's honestly designed intentionally at Blizzard. They've actively used psychology to find the best systems to keep people playing. The thing is, those systems aren't fun and don't have people playing because they WANT to but because they feel they NEED to.
@@ShutterSnapped "Keep people playing"...it ain't working, chief.
@@pluna3382 "visit every now and then for new patches" That's literally what people do in FFXIV too LOL
Gotta be really hard trying to maintain a neutral stance when doing these comparisons. I've given up on it already. I can no longer pretend FFXIV isn't just objectively better than WoW in basically everything at this point.
Not true whatsoever, there are many things WoW does better than FFXIV
I understand the logic behind it, but the idea of sitting on a bench roster for a mythic raid, is the dumbest thing. Who wants to pay to play a game where you grind for days to get RNG to prep for raid, just to sit there all night doing nothing, watching others raid, on the CHANCE they might bring you in to play?
Miss me with that BS
Yeah seriously that seems to suck.
What caught my eye for FF as a WoW player was the extreme raids. The mechanics looked (and are) super fun. I haven't done an extreme yet, probably never will, but I have finished the MSQ & really enjoy doing the dungeons/trials.
Give it a try! Don’t miss out, nothing to lose. Study the fight from a UA-cam video, get a group of like-minded players and try to clear for as long as it takes! I never knew I could have so much fun in a game until my first extreme. The sense of achievement is uncanny.
Raid in ffxiv nowadays getting easier, even pick up group can clear it after few tries or days. Long ago even number 1 static raider need 2 weeks or 1 month to clear the raid. My static were 3rd places in tonberry need a month at least.
14 knocks it so out of the park in terms of music. One thing I'm excited for about new raids isn't just the fights themselves or the loot, but the music. You should have seen me when I loaded into p8 the first time, I was going crazy
The absolute necessity of addons in WoW really makes me question encounter design as a whole. Yes, they might be fun, but they're created with addons in mind. Are those WoW fights as well designed if you remove Weak Auras? (this is an honest question)
You are right that the addons affect the design, as the devs build fights knowing they will be used. Fun is subjective. But personally, I found it less engaging, and a step removed from the experience in games where you respond more to visual and audio cues in the arena and to your party. As you learn the fight you internalize the timings naturally by yourself and this gives you the illusion you are really beating the boss. I began to think of my WoW raid UI as a kind of screen between me and the arena that distanced me emotionally. But also in FFXIV you can have the experience of what used to be 10 person raiding in WoW which many remember fondly because being with a smaller team does give a more personalized feel to the fight and makes you more aware of your team inside the arena. The 8-person team really makes a difference.
It's a bit of a design paradox for Blizz, I think. Because players CAN use addons like Weak Auras, they will. Because they will, Blizz has to design the fights under that assumption. If they don't do so, then the addons trivialize the fights. The results is some fights would probably be nearly impossible w/o addons. It's a complexity arms race.
I'm not 100% sure about this but I think the big issue isn't encounter design, it's the game itself. It's so old that it looks like adding good markers to mechanics would be extremely complicated so people have to rely on addons to show them what is going on. The raids have 20 people and I don't remember being able to completely turn off other people's spell effects, so that combined with how old the game looks makes it absurdly hard to notice what is happening without addons.
@@scotaloo77g73 old? I would say raiding and the design of wow raids is far better than ff14 plus the mechincs and how the chars feel to play is far better than ff14...the thing that let's wow down is having a mess of addons and weak auras all over the screen
@@matthewpartridge8784 Did you even read my comment lol
WOW = need meta alts, need add-ons, follow directions on screen.
Ff14 = bring any class, learn the fight yourself, have fun.
From my experience, that's very far off the truth. I'd love to have seen you try beat E4S with a mix of Bard, Machinist, Dancer, Ninja and Red Mage at the start of Shadowbringers. I'd love to see it because it was statistically impossible. Honestly, it's not very far off from WoW's "bring the class", however it was easier to swap class.
As for "need add-ons", just shows you've never done a WoW fight. You can do them without addons, they're just significantly more challenging fights thus people resort to addons to assist them in the challenging aspects. With addons, WoW fights are still on par if not harder than FF14's fights, and those addons don't just magically appear. You still have to learn the fight. If you're a latecomer to the raid, FF14 has an entire spreadsheet you can study before entering the fight so you know EVERYTHING the boss does in advance. So saying "follow directions of screen" applies to FF14 even more than WoW, since WoW has more randomized things you have to adapt to while FF14 is, as the spreadsheet indicates, 100% mapped out. Follow your spreadsheet opened on your second screen and you literally can't make a mistake other than doing bad dps.
@@joostleisder1956 You can't compare WoW raids to FF14 raids like that. WoW lets you cheese Mythic raids with gear over time. FF14's Ultimate doesn't.
Week 12 Sylvanas is an excessively easier fight than Week 2 Sylvanas. Not so much Week 12 TEA versus Week 1 TEA.
character progression? hello? And its not like you can cheese mythic mechanics left and right, its like 1 time per raid tier? And it make some classes looks badass while doing it?... There are many strats, and sometimes different guild do stuff in other way...
@@joostleisder1956 Also: there's lots of randomized mechanics, which you 100% cannot plan out and overcome simply by reading a spredsheet. This is just not true. Have you raided on FF?
TEA is in its own tier above the other ultimates too
I think on release blind UwU > UCoB > TEA
But with now with standardized guides and job changes and gear ilvl sync scaling from 80 to 70
TEA > UCoB >>> UwU
The hardest part of TEA is wormhole prog but that's it IMO aside from living liquid doll memes. It being in the latter half of the fight helps makes progging it difficult.
@@MorpheusCh naaah, this is not like that, TEA>>>UCoB>UwU... yeah thats the way of it.
THat's true for endbosses in mythic WoW too. Not every Last boss stand in the same tier
Your point? Mythic bosses have varying difficulties to.
@@MorpheusCh hardest part of tea is pressure, tea is extremely difficult to sabotage if anyone die since dps check is really tight, wormhole is really easy since we all have sim
I need to say, despite FF14 having blinding spell effects: It's still much easier for me to watch a fight and figure out what's going on. Meanwhile in WoW these days, I look at the fight and have no idea what's going on because everything blends together.
It doesn’t help that wow has that terrible, muddy art design and graphics
@@austins.2495 Honestly that's how I feel about ff14, with the difference being that every ability affect flashbangs you.
FF14s artstyle is just so bland and uninspired, looking pretty much like every other eastern mmo out there.
@@TimeyWimey. wow has mobile game graphics
@@FullMetalEdits it really doesnt. Maybe its artstyle is similar but thats because its cartoony (graphics and art style aren't the same thing).
And honestly the ff14 artsyle reminds me of Raid, so...
Weak auras doesn’t sound like a plus. The mod plays the game for you. Why would anyone consider that fun?
WA just customizes the UI of what the game already shows you. Placing my buffs and debuffs closer to where i can see it instead of tiny in the corner doesn't play the game for me. Or in my case i change the visual indications of my spec procs into audio since i im susceptible to visual overload so i do what i can to keep it to a minimum
@@phatymcdaddy I’m talking about whatever he’s talking about that indicates exactly when and where to move in a raid so you don’t have to do any thinking for yourself
@@phatymcdaddy That is one way to use WAs, but you can use it in other ways too where it, combined with other admins (mostly DBM or BigWigs), tell you exactly what to do. Prime examples were fights where you had to pair up with another raid member who had the same debut as you, it'll tell you who to pair up with. They've had this all the way back to Gruul in TBC in 2007 where there were add-on that told you if you were too close to other raid members on the Shatter. FWIW, I love how I can customize my UI with WA for playing my class/spec with a very minimal UI, but I hate how it basically drives raiding.
@Atheist Biologist yeah I don’t play trash games
@Atheist Biologist lol
As a long-time player of both games, agree 100% Quazii! In FF it takes 10x less the time investment and effort spent for a character to be Mythic-ready. Now, sure, both games have challenging bosses and the other opinions may be more objective, but in sheer time, yeah, FF is by far easier to maintain. I can't count how much time I dumped in Legion grinding out AP, M+ drops and Islands in BFA only to be barely stronger or eventually hit a time gate or fell on the wrong side of loot drops.
In FF I can gear up, do other things, or even just take the time to enjoy other games - an option not really "offered" to you in WoW if you get past the Heroic level just for the amount of dailies you have to keep up with.
I appreciate this comment. I have experience in both games just not end game raiding and now I want to play one with the end goal to do some raiding but having a family I don’t have unlimited about of time to dump but I do have some time. Haha
I think SE allows u to play some ost in the condition that you have to show gameplay.
Yes, you are allowed to play the music as long as the content said music is from is being shown on screen. So Quazii could play the UWU soundtrack while showing UWU content but not the WoW content.
Easy sub coming from Max love hearing comparisons between the two games as a fresh 80 on FF and a 11 year Vet on wow
Thanks for the support 🙏
That was something I didn't really like about WoW was trying to keep up on all my addons for optimization, and you were basically ostracized from raiding if you didn't have them. FFXIV doesn't make you rely on outside help to deal with mechanics
@@masterpain7742 meanwhile wow players with a bot telling them exactly where to go, when boss mechanics are gonna happen, you don't even need a brain.
My Heroic guild asked me to install dbm, but they never checked if anyone had it. Was quite chill.
@@masterpain7742 lmao fuckin salty goober sad he sank 15 years of his life into a dying game
@@masterpain7742 lolyou would prob be a grey boy in 14 raids
You never 'need' addons in WoW, it's for optimization indeed. It isn't required in FF14 because the fights are significantly easier. The first clearers throw everything down on a spreadsheet and anyone else can just study that spreadsheet, have it opened on a second screen, and they have their own addon right there because everything happens at the exact moment it shows on that spreadsheet in that exact order.
And guess what: first WoW raiders don't have addons either, because they're the ones that have to learn the fight in order to make the addon in the first place.
Addon vs spreadsheet, it's really no different, except that WoW fights are harder so the addon is 'needed' to ensure you don't get overwhelmed mid fight by the mechanics, while memorizing FF14 boss rotations for 10-15 minutes long isn't very challenging to someone who's.. well, been to school before and did the same for an exam.
When you started talking about how in WoW you need to bring specific classes for the buffs they bring but not in FF14, I was thinking "damn you're lucky you started during Shadowbringers" lol.
I'm sure you've been told already, but before 5.0 some physical jobs could apply debuffs to enemies which would increase their slashing, piercing or blunt damage taken. Each physical job does one of those three types of damage. However not every physical job brings the debuff for the type of damage they deal. Most notably, Bard and Machinist dealt piercing damage, but only Dragoon had the piercing debuff. So if you wanted to bring a BRD or MCH, you automatically also had to bring a Dragoon because it was 5% of their damage (10% in Heavensward and ARR). You also needed at least one job which brought the slashing debuff (Warrior, Ninja or Samurai) because Paladin and Dark Knight did not have it, and since there were only 3 tanks back then, your comp would always have at least one of those two jobs. Blunt debuff was irrelevant since only Monk does blunt damage, and it had the blunt debuff.
On top of this, aggro management was a thing back before Shadowbringers. Turning on tank stance used to reduce your damage dealt, so tanks wanted to be out of tank stance as much as possible to maximize their DPS, but this also lead to the need to manage aggro. Ninja had a buff which could redirect its own aggro onto another party member (basically Tricks of the Trade from WoW), as well as a buff which could reduce the aggro from another party member. So bringing a Ninja was essential for giving your tanks maximum DPS time, but you wanted a Ninja anyway because Trick Attack was broken af.
TEA also has some of the most interesting boss mechanics ive seen.
One upside of Wow raids is that the boss arena isn't limited to a circle every time.
Depending on your preference, 25m can be better than 8m if you want less pressure for each mechanic.
Well the size alone in WoW can be a factor for difficulty... many players learn by doing and many mechanics in WoW just hit 1-2 players. So when you have 10+ DPS:ers, there's a chance/risk that some players never end up targeted by the mechanic leaving them clueless or unaware of a mechanic so they die/wipe raid because of it. In FFXIV it's pretty much impossible to not be targeted by a mechanic at some point in a fight, tbh. most of the time everyone have to deal with every mechanic(unless role specific)... which also can be really difficult.
I like that limit and echo have fun progressing in FFXIV, personally i enjoy both styles of raiding and I'm glad they seem to do that aswell.
One downside of this comment is that it's just not true. This is patently false, not every boss fight has a circle arena. What are you talking about?
@@florianfeige6323 (2yrs later lol), can you name a ff14 fight that isn't just the circle or square arena? Even something just shaped differently like Ragnaros area
great video again! Actually I gave a shot to ffxiv thanks to one of yours videos :)
What I like a lotabout ffxiv is that there is not lockout as for mythic in wow raid as you mentioned.
Next is that you can go back to do old raids with downscale and fight it at aaalmost original power, when it was released (to get cosmetics etc), basically new player get sooo massive content, since they will want to do old raids for sure too!
But the n. 1 thing, was that actually they are able to test their own game and players go to the new content blindly! In wow impossible, you know everything about each boss and almost everything about the story and if you dont want to spoil yourself, you will just slow down everyone on progress etc..... And as you said in wow weak auras and addons basicly hold your hand and guide you -.-
Classes looks balanced as never seen in wow and as you said and even limit max have video about that - in wow you NEED to have classes on certain encounters and when max was done counting he had 1 or 2 spots for "any" spec. Rest was mandatory.
Next thing which is awesome - 8player raids, this makes your group so much versatile about time. JOBS? Awesome system having all toons on 1 character, thats just epic! Gold saucer is pretty nice idea too, I wasted there so many time during leveling LOL. Dont even know why, but I enjoy collecting tripple triads or chocobo racing :D.
In wow on the legion I managed to do max 1 toon, from bfa i didnt managed even that (If i wanted him to be ready for mythics raiding), on shadowlands I gave up on toon after 3 weeks because of all the chores you needed to do, again and again just to repeat the same thing all over again, which is not fun (torghast had sooo much potentional, I would say as much as m+ and they screw hard on it, to make it just "weekly" chores). In ffxiv you do short quest, then unique class quests (with even some kind of story), level up character and here you go! You can start learning the job and start gearing up :)
I still love wow, but a lot of times it felt like wow tries to waste my time to get those "online players numbers", Instead of me want to waste my own time, to have fun in the game.
I myself find it fun to be able to optimise comps to make the fight easier, its like picking the best Pokémon to fight a specific gym leader :D. However, I can see arguments against it as some guilds may not have certain classes/jobs thus making the fights unbearable.
Really fair, truthful coverage of both raiding scenes! I didn't do any mythic raiding in WoW, but I experienced normal and heroic a lot so I can generally understand the points you are making from both sides. The way I see the two is that WoW's raiding difficulties fall too often on the wrong things like roster and gear gating, which really takes away from the experience that I personally want which is having fun fighting bosses and getting loot. FFXIV is in stark contrast where those issues are often a lot less crippling and there are just more challenging things to engage with across the entire history of the game.
Oh and the music is no contest. The FFXIV team actually spends a lot of time syncing fights with the music, sometimes even down to the millisecond for important plot moments, and it just adds so much to the experience for me. The energy and excitement is never missing, and I love farming bosses just to listen to the themes more.
Roster and gear gating - so many hurdles for raiders just to get in the door - roster, gear, AP grinds, rep grinds, daily grinds, M+ spam for RNG trinkets, Torghast runs, Islands, and we're not talking even mythic raiding here, just your average heroic team that wants to raid twice a week and beat a few bosses. Most of us are not Olympic gymnasts training for ten years to do a 2 minute floor routine we just want to get in there and fight the boss please. But those hurdles weren't even training which might make sense although it would still be backwards, it was just required farming so we could all raid.
FFXIV static drama...
(*Proceed to remember that time when a love triangle happened where this guy tried to get in between a couple ended up with static disbanding)
...yeah FFXIV static drama is horrible
lol Static drama is always there, I had one where 2 people happened to live close to eachother in a static, they met up and started dating. Then some drama happened in the background between them both and it destroyed the static. lol
Was hilarious.
@@Wrendy2k7 my last static was destroyed by a dude breaking up with his gf and leaving, then another static member simping for her hard trying to get with her. Basically it fell apart because he was too creepy and no one wanted to be there anymore.
@@scoobiusmaximus9508 oh god that's just... ugh.
Some people are just absolute creeps... plus it's also another reason why I don't play with couples in statics it always ends badly.
There are assholes everywhere. When you've got 25 people, you're just that much more likely to have assholes vs 8 people.
Its always dating stuff KEKW
I like quazii... He explains things so well
By the end of my wow career all I did was raid log. Every wednesday we did the content and I barely touched the game outside of raiding. Pet battles brought some life since it was something that I could sink some time in and it felt like playing a pokemon game. :D But that alone wasn't enough to keep my interest up. Playing the game was a chore, a 2nd job without pay at worst.
Raid comps switched left and right every tier. Sometimes you need hunters, sometimes rogues, sometimes warlocks. I always frowned at the need of "meta" classes. This caused some to quit or leave the guild, because they happened to main a certain class and now they were stuck on bench for the choice they made long ago. Even I had to reroll into a hunter once to cement a guaranteed roster spot during MoP.... I actually tried to return to WoW during classic, but the raid "meta" was horrible. The content is easy enough to do, but everyone wants to cut corners and stack mages.
I'm happy that I achieved doing all the content on the highest level that was available at the time... But the grind wore me out and I haven't touched Wow seriously in 6 years. Well, maybe I spent 2 months in classic... I do like to watch people play WoW, but I have a love and hate relationship with the game :D If someone asked me what MMO he/she should play. I wouldn't recommend WoW... Which is kinda sad as it kinda is among my favourite games of all time. Why else would I had sinked so much time into it in my teenage/young adult years :D
WoW could learn a lot from FF14. Just like FF14 has learned a lot from WoW.
The "must-bring" specs/class/job issue was more prevalent in stormblood
Most common example was Dragoon + Bard due to their synergy. Must-Have Ninja for its Trick Attack was another big one.
Thankfully Shadowbringers doesn't really have that anymore
Yeah, that's always been meta speedrun/racing stuff. You could always clear any content fine with any comp. The worst was when debuffs were a thing, but even then it wasn't a big deal.
@@Axemninja he said they were must haves in Stormblood and back then it was 100% true. I remember a time when there were literally 0 clears of UCoB without a Bard because Bard gave the healers MP. The standard dps raid comp from basically mid- ARR to the end of Stormblood was Bard, Dragoon, and Ninja with the 4th spot changing based on the fight and the most recent balance patches. You saw basically no variance there. Warrior was basically the required tank as well that entire time, but DRK got several rounds of buffs throughout Stormblood to the point that it eventually became somewhat competitive at the end. Warrior was the only tank that ever pulled anything until DRK was sufficiently buffed because their tank stance was oGCD and their burst aggro generation was by far the best of all tanks. You didn't see many DRKs for most of Stormblood because they did less damage and had less utility than Paladin and nothing could compete with Warrior. You didn't see Paladin in HW because it couldn't take magic attacks.
Game balance used to suck. It was never at WoW levels from what I understand, but the meta used to be a lot more defined and oppressive.
@@Axemninja There's definitely no must bring, but there were a couple of "must not bring" jobs. 2.0 WAR, HW PLD and MNK, and 3.0-3.5 AST were major oof.
@@thomaswood8405 i mean.. with that list of "must not bring" you already have a "must bring" tank in heavensward, and most bring Melee DPS in Heavensward.(sure its a soft bring with some wiggle room)
Tanks woudl be Warrior and DRK(or even 2 Warriors given how i heared DRK was bad during most of HW and SB)
Melee DPS would be either Ninja or Dragoon, you also needed/wanted a ranged physical DPS for the MP thingy(forgot the name)so healers could actualy heal. If you picked Dragoon as one of the likely 2 DPS slots, you already made the Choice for the optimal "Must have" Ranged physical DPS of Bard.
I think the fourth DPS was the one most flexible and mostly depending on fight iirc but most likely would be a Caster.
Every other combination WILL WORK most likely with enough effort, but if you want the optimal/reasonable choiches(aka not choosing classes which where considerd "bad"/must not bring as well as not wasting any Raid buffs or Boss debuff(like iirc the Piercing defence down the dragoon could inflict that made bard so optimal)) then you had the tanks set, the Melee DPS set, and the Ranged DPS set.
Meaning out of 8 spots, 5 Where more or less set, leaving 1 DPS(likely caster, so 1 of 2 Classes) and Healers 2 out of 3 Classes
@@Axemninja The "must bring" was not exactly a "must" but more a synergy matter. If you had a Dragoon it was better if you had a BRD so they both could take profit from the piercing debuff. Yeah you could go with a MCH instead but that was a "dps loss and it would bring "toxicity" to light and this "we dont want this class or that class" kind of comments. So getting rid of that was actually good for the community.
I have never done ultimate, but I was a part of an Extreme raid group with my FC 2 years ago. Unfortunately, since I work in the medical field, when the world event happened I was so stressed out and I felt like Extreme raiding was just adding to my stress. It was no longer fun.
So I told my raid that I couldn't raid anymore and why. They were very understanding and I am still a member of the same FC. I'm glad there was no drama because I was stressed out as it was.
(BTW, I'm not a doctor or a nurse, I work among the support staff so save most of the respect for doctors and nurses. They have it even worse than paper pushers like me.)
Seems like a lot of people in comments haven't played at cutting edge level in wow, or dont even understand how the mechanics work that weakauras are used to. No they dont blame game for you. End bosses still have hundreds wipes on them, because you need to learn the fight. Some mechanics like in video queen azhara and debuffs would be undoable for with out weakaura. If ff14 had as well addons like bigwigs and weakauras, most of the ultimate fights would A LOT easier. The fight are just made in mind that people dont have them, like fights in wow are made knowing that players have these tools.
Seems like you are far less knowledgeable than the comments you're talking about.
@@GarrusN7 How so?
"An emergency where his pet fish is drowning" lmfao
Gonna be honest. I never considered a game/raid that depends on outside add-ons to achieve goals to be a positive thing. It's great as an aid or something to make things easier, but when it becomes something you have to have just to clear content then a dev somewhere dropped the ball.
Yeah, that was one of the biggest reasons I left WoW.
I wanted to do end game content for the first time, but I was A) Not spected the right way. B) Need to download DBM just to play the game.
oh bullshit. In last 4 expansions, the raid helping addons were necessery maybe in 2-3 fights. If you needed them to play every encounter then you didnt know the fight well and the fault is on you.
@@szaka9395
I'd like you to read your comment and notice that you admitted to needing them to clear content.
@@szaka9395 You really gonna sit there and blatantly lie that addons aren't needed for Mythic fights? Shut up 😂
@@veritasabsoluta4285 which fights you need addont to finish, remind me. But not SL crap, because i didnt play it. Go legion bfa mop cata raids
This was amazingly well done. After years of wow, years of not having played wow, and now diving into ff14 these are the things I care about.
love the comparison content between 2 biggest mmo
looking forward to stuff like pvp, story, dungeons, glamour, etc.
While I agree about the class balance between the 2 games, gota remember 2 more things that really makes/break things.
1 - In WoW not only are there classes that are mandatory for said things, but Blizzard most certainly purposely designs some classes to simply do WAY more damage than other classes during certain patches/updates, and by a RIDICULOUS amount that bringing certain classes is actually detrimental. In FFXIV the jobs a reletively well designed that where, yes while there is a bit of a DPS disparity, jobs have certain design/utility/etc within them to make up for the gap with the entire raid group, and has been proven by many players that any job combination can clear any content. The only thing FFXIV group avoid is bringing 2 of the same job and stacking certain roles too many times (Meta make up is of course 2 tank, 2 healer, 2 melee dps, 1 caster and 1 ranged).
2 - In relation to the first reason, in FFXIV, you can play EVERY job with 1 character. Meaning if you have put in the time and effort to level multiple jobs and manage to gear them alongside your main job, you can fill any role, any job, anytime, as long as you can play said job well of course, and the game itself has content to help people level up alt jobs on 1 character reletively quick to max level even after you finish the Main Scenario Quest. In WoW it is 1 character 1 class, so for people with limited time will find themselve almost have NO chance of joining mythic raid groups purely for the class they play, no question asked. Of course you can level multiple alts to cover for this, but the timegate, chore-ghast, MANDATORY daily/weekly over multiple alt will become a intense headache to keep up with.
This simply adds even more flexibility with raiding in FFXIV as a whole, even in ultimate fights because of how content and jobs are designed by the dev team, thus everyone has equal chance and opportunity to do every content in the game and the only thing stopping them is their own confidence or time. WoW's wall to simply get into mythic raiding near impossible for MANY players, casuals or people with basic real life commitment (like working) have almost no chance of finding the time to grind and do mandatory things JUST to gear up enough to do mythic content.
There are no right or wrong opinions when it comes to subjective stuff like 'visual design' and how much you like transitions from phases.
Except for music. There are wrong opinions about which game has better music.
Great video! From my experience I've played wow since original wotlk since then I played on and off I missed SL, BFA and most of legion. On my ff14 experience Ive only played till past ARR (yes I'm a complete noob). I will immediately say that on wow I've never been a fan of pve and only ever did PVP but in DF I dabbled in mythic + which I enjoy. First thing is raiding in wow I've only done LFR and I have done that across most the expansions I played but predominately PVP. It felt like wow has a lot of gatekeeping behind normal/heroic/mythic raids anything that wasn't queue-able felt very hard to get into it unless you made your own group, this is another reason I missed out on wow pve as with the PVP it was very simple queue and join or find 1 person maybe 2 and boom u got ur arena team. Since playing ff14 the pve I find is extremely intuitive, fun and engaging.. I liked how the mechanics were shown quite obviously whereas I find wow mechanics they're not obvious at all I mean ofc they're swirlys n such but other than the STEP OUT of this mechanic the others weren't obvious and was always needing to watch a guide before hand especially with mythic + as well. Anyway going back to ff the pve kept me engaged and I just found the speed of it to be relaxed and chilled ofc that's early days but for me as a true PVP player I hadn't even dabbled into PVP on FF since I'm on free trial i will be buying dawntrial and get a go of their daily bgs so I'd have to say it was very interesting seeing a veteran of both games asses them and give an unbiased opinion. Very good video.
Generally a nice comparison, lots of the stuff mentioned is very factual. As for the addon side I will just mention WA and DBM/Bigswigs (or other external tools) are not needed to clear mythic, thing is right these tools are used cause 'path of least resistance' (either have to think or can smash red button choice is yours), a lot of these tools are generally being used as a lot of people A. Do not trust their co raiders to play flawlessly B. Managing 20 people to do the same thing is rough (even in business) C. The Era of pure raiders/pvp players in WoW is mostly gone, making is so that to have an 'equal' playing field people want to use the same advantage others got.
An everyday example: If you would need to do the dishes and got choice out of two options 1. Doing them by hand or 2. use the Dishwashing machine, what is the choice you will pick, more oftendly then not most people will choose for option 2 why? cause its easier does it for them and they don't need to care about it anymore. same rule of thumb goes to the addon part of WoW
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I play both games (mainly WoW) and comparisons of stuff like mechanics or difficulty or visuals don't matter, they are great in both games. But stuff like raid music, barrier of entry into endgame content and maintaining the roster (or even pugging) are all on the side of final fantasy. I really hope WoW devs can improve on some of these things, mainly the amount of mindless gameplay you have to do before you can get into m+ and raids.
I've always said this about the 2 games, I always hated trying to fill a 20man roster..shit sucked...
I'd say it's quite dumb to bring the world first kills into this discussion.
Great vid. I might add the need in WoW to have several alts fully geared which multiplies the entry barrier.
That was one of the things I was also thinking about. Especially if your doing the older stuff and not cutting edge you can always swap. If you loose your healer for example you can change from a DPS to healer (Provided to have the gear) for that raid and find a DPS to step in.
In wow if you, for the prot paladin example, loose him then you NEED another geared prot paladin. And if you beat it with an alt, you still need to do it on your main for progress. A good example I have is back when I was WoW raiding there was Leotheras the blind that you needed a warlock tank with high FR to deal with. I had that warlock... As my alt, I needed to log off my main Prot pally for the raid in order to get that warlock to tank that one boss. So I had an alt that I geared, had him sit with a certain spec to tank one boss, that got nothing from it.
@@steveklass6823 and nowadays a Rogue main has 1-3 alts on different covenants which is just absurd
As someone who likes different games, do you have opinions how GW2 does raids? Ofc we don't know if Strikes (10man raid like single boss) will be the new raids in End of Dragons ... here I'm hoping more raids. Edit: no more raids just more strikes :
yeah, they are repetitive grindy shit yopu will grind 5 times a day for tomes.
We have HTCM and Cerus LM now though :D I know different then raids, but htcm took 5 days prog to kill for world 1st and cerus LM almost 9 days to kill for world 1st, imo strike cm's (and legendary modes from now on fingers crossed) are supperior over raids in gw2 in terms of diffuculty! Not sure if you are still playing but you should give those strikes a shot
Enjoying the raid comparison commentary while getting ready for work office.
"please look forward to it"
I see you're picking up ffxiv memes :D
If you talk about difficulty, with the condition that players are at the best possible ilvl that they are in for the highest level of raiding, then in my opinion Mythic Raiding is Easier than Ultimate raiding. And it's simply because Mythic raiding there is Weakaura and a whole bunch of addons added into the mix to make things easy for you. While there are external addons in FFXIV too, but it's not actually like WA or DBM etc.
FFXIV is also visually hard to distinguish some mechanics, like you can actually miss some mechanics because of your positioning, even if you are warned to move out of it before hand.
As such, i think FFXIV is much harder compared with WoW for raiding.
After playing both I disagree to a point. I'd say Mythic raids are a different type of difficulty because of how WoW is set up. FFXIV mechanics are basically a dance and most of the time has little to no variation on them, now in recent years that has changed somewhat but the script is still there for FFXIV that mechanics will almost always go off at certain times so I feel they can be easier to perform as you are just repeating the dance until you get it done. Now the mechanics themselves can be punishing and hard but because of little variation I feel most people can get to grips of them. (What I mean by this is a random factor.) WoW is very different as its raid mechanics are extremely randomised and one pull will be entirely different to another due to how mechanics work. So this adds a more random element to the mechanics which adds a layer of difficulty.
This is purely my opinion and I mainly raid on FFXIV currently going through TEA right now, but yeah I prefer FFXIV over WoW but I wouldn't say FFXIV highest difficulty raids are harder than WoWs but moreso they have a different type of difficulty which in my opinion makes them easier to learn. (They are in no way "easy" just easier than WoW)
@@Wrendy2k7 Whether a mechanic is randomized or not doesn't change much. A basic puddle is still a basic puddle and a basic soak is still a basic soak. WoW mechanics are extremeIy simple due to the raid size and pretty much all of the difficulty comes from "overtuned" bosses. If their raids were tuned just like FF raids are tuned, the world first race would end within a couple hours.
@@scotaloo77g73 this. Mythic raiding core difficulty is increased boss health and damage done. There are some additional mechanics added here or there, but still they are doable with ease and with WA, it makes them ridiculously easy. I remember progging on Sire D and my guildies were just dying to the puddles that spawn from the 2nd phase adds, then we all downloaded a particular WA that makes a sharp slicing sound when an add dies and immediately everyone is awake and aware of this mechanic. But when it comes down to damages dealt, we were still not able to get past some of these mechanics since the healers are either not good enough or dps is just not high enough to end the fights.
@@chinaman1 See yeah I see what you are coming from, but I am in a different mindset and find ffxiv mechanics easier just because its so structured and rarely any variation. But hey like I said it's just my opinion at the end of the day. This sort of thing is purely subjective.
Aspects that FF clearly has an advantage in:
1. Dynamic music
2. clear AoE effect visuals
i love that music changes depending on boss phase it rreally is a good way to learn phase differences as a newer player
so what, you chill while raiding and got no need to listen to the raid group?
Relaxed, rational, to the point. Suberb vid!
I am late watching the video. But thanks for explaining. Luckily FFXIV doesn’t gate keep so much. At least with Yoshi P still heading the team, the core value is still making the SE board happy while also making the game fun rather than a chore. And does not greedily tie you to only one game. It’s not perfect but I am happy. Plus,I get time off to experience other games from SE as well. 😂
Nonsense. Square is just lazy and they brutally cut down the content since years and streamline everything. That's all.
There is overall simlpy much less content and it's a lot copy/paste and always the same.
When you look at the WoW raid, there are so many different fights by the arena alone. It's always a circle or square in FF14.
Meanwhile FF14 raid aren't even fights. It's more Dance Dance Revolution. You go in blind without any info (WoW itself gives you the info what the Boss is doing, even without using any mods) and then die your way through until you got the 99% scripted fight and learn the dance routine.
Using mods to tell you what to do makes FF14 fights a hell lot easier. Meanwhile even if you use all the mods you can in WoW, it's still heavily challenging while you overall got way more freedom.
FF14 being scripted as it is, rarely gives you any choice. You follow the dance or you wipe.
Such fights are simlpy way easier to design - typical for Square and also the reason why they are all the same.
When the game started, they had played around with ideas how to even make dugneons bosses different. But that's too much work, the don't care anymore.
Every ultimate in FFXIV has been world first cleared with what was deemed a sub-meta comp. Think about that =p
They've also been cleared way later than they could've, as Limit and Echo will prove if they stick around long enough for the next Ultimate release.
@@joostleisder1956 Doubt. Limit and Echo both lack the experience of blindprogging Ultimates. Blind progging Ultimate is a must-have experience to even come close to world first.
What an amazing video. This video serves a great deal for those that are wondering about both raids. I have one question though. Now that you have quit WoW and as you spend longer time with FFXIV, do you worry that WoW becoming a stranger to you as the day goes by? I ask because this happened to me when I left AION back in 2013 for FFXIV. After a year, I was no longer an expert to the former MMORPG. And I recently looked at AION and it has completely changed to a point where I couldn't recognise anything anymore.
Great comparison :) wow overall is just so tedious. You literally can't do anything BUT work on your raiding toons or you will fall behind. In FF you can have so much more than just raiding. I clear savages within their respective tiers, and I have time for side content, glamour farming, mount farming, maps and just hanging out with people.
The whole Ishgardian Restoration is a great example really, it's a GIANT chunk of content specifically for crafters and gatherers, dedicated to restoring the main city from 2 expansions ago just because.
If it was wow it'd be mandatory and provide some advantage to those who are doing it, and it'd be a huge chore. In FF people are doing it because it provides some nifty cosmetics and because they love Ishgard and want to help the place many still regard as their home/favorite city.
That's far from true lol. I played from launch of shadow lands til castle release completed the raid on heroic stopped playing for months ... Fell way behind went back and within a week of casual play was caught back up and doing mythic in the current patch, while still mount farming, mog farming, etc
This sounds like someone who doesn't know shit about WoW. You can definitely mount and transmog farm while raiding a current tier. FF14 does do professions way better though.
@@DMG_MTG true, sadly most every MMORPG does. Wow for some reason hasn't been able to make professions relevant since TBC...been one of my biggest complaints for years
thanks for sharing your thoughts about raiding between the two games, as a vet FF player with no WoW experience, it's really insightful to see the differences!
my only feedback here regards 17:00 where you talk about the 'purists' saying its not how the fight would have felt when relevant. As an in-game mentor, I react this way towards sprout players who queue up old Extreme content or sometimes 24-player raids with no clue on what they are getting into. When we explain how to do mechanics, they don't understand and ignore it or just say they will learn by seeing it more. When veteran players end up with it in Duty Finder, they may not necessarily have the time to commit 1-hour of progression and then they are the ones having to adjust to deal with all the mechanics or surviving long enough to build up echo just to carry the others through.
of course this is different to Ultimates and Savage, and a static group progressing in that content deserves their pride when they clear the content! My sentiment is just to be respectful to who you play with and if you are going in to do old Extremes, party finder is the go-to for learning and progression.
Sorry for my long rant :'D thanks again for the video!!
I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying. While UwU is not an easy fight by any stretch of the imagination, the game has aged past it and things like potency and eHP creep have taken away a significant amount of teeth UwU had in its prime; its not uncommon to say if you've done E8S, you can do UwU - putting it on the scale of harder savage fights.
When he says "for the purists" he just means he's addressing the people who already give his opinion less weight because he's talking about UwU in Shadowbringers, rather than UwU in Stormblood.
In WoW they use a bunch of mods, whereas FFXIV they don't. Raid design in both games is designed based on this. So a legitimate comparison would be impossible.
Automatic "Like" for the shirt!
you hit the nail on the head with WoW's mythic roster limit
Ooh I implore you to try Delubrum Reginae Savage. It was a nightmare.
I would say that group itself is most important when it comes to raiding(in any game).
You are right in the sense that most groups like having war for HG, but I'd like to point out that in the race to world first of TEA, Sfia themselves said that they ran drk over war because WAR mechanically doesn't benefit from CRIT or DHR buffs from bards which they switched to from dancer because dancer requires your partner to play out of their gourd to be worth having. So there are significant advantages to both tanks and I think this is much better balanced than implied in the video. It's part of what I love about this game is that the devs care more about each classes balance because they have to. You don't have 3 specs per class to work with so you have to try and find a good place for every single job.
I don't have experience with WoW Mythic raids, just...everything up to Pandaria.
In terms of raiding for the first few expansions for WoW and FFXIV...every FFXIV player has the potential to have every class leveled and geared on a single character. This means if you're used to raiding with a ninja, but the girl who normally plays is on a date, someone else can easily replace her role at any given moment. That being said, anyone who knows anything about WoW raiding can attest to the difference between 10-man raiding and 25-man/40-man raiding...representation. When at least 1 member of every class is represented, the raiding experience is made that much easier (WoW had 9-11 different classes for 10-40man content, FFXIV has 17 different classes for 8-24man content), and when the raid crew is larger, raid bosses are made significantly easier. Woe be unto the single warlock or mage in a 40-man who not only had to empty all of their bags before a raid to spend the hour before a raid summoning up health stones and food/water. I never understood why WoW's 10-man raid gear was lower quality than 25-man raid gear, when 25-mans were easier and faster to do with experienced players.
As far as fun goes, I had significantly more fun in WoW raids like Karazhan where the path to the final boss was littered with optional bosses and secret passages, since it felt more like a raid on a spooky mansion, and players could choose where to go, based on how much time players were allowed for their daily lives. Most other raids like Onyxia and Molten Core were the standard D&D-style of giant dungeon combat: pull small groups of trash mobs and kill them individually, slowly following a big obvious path until you get to a Big Bad and you do a thing to get loot, repeat. FFXIV is more of the same, just with more "PULL EVERYTHING, KILL EVERYTHING AT ONCE" tactics in between the Big Bads, a TONNE of classic Asian RPG impressive visual environments but invisible walls and linear paths, fun combat, great music that I actually want to listen to more often than not, and fun boss battles with increased difficulty based on the level of the raid (level 50 raids are super basic and easy with one or two insta-kill mechanics, level 80 raids are more complicated with lots of instant-kill mechanics). Oh, and some FFXIV raids have Egoraptor's Megaman ideas: some of the trash pulls in a raid will have mechanics similar to what you will encounter with the upcoming boss, thus teaching you innately through combat in a relatively relaxed place.
Before we even start: You better bring up how WoW uses crap like Weak Auras and DBM and that kinda stuff is ALLOWED, whereas it's not in FF14. So FF14 content is designed to be run without the assistance of third party software and WoW's is designed to be run WITH third party software assistance. As such WoW's fights can be made harder.... but.... are you really even fighting the boss at that point? Half the work is being done FOR you.
Edit: wait, Denathrius just pulled a Kefka though >.>
Ah yes, goldfish drowning. Right up there with "brb cats on fire"
When most peoples complaints obviously read like its the only MMO or game they play.
yo good points but I wanna know what your ending song is tho
no worries :D here you go - Aero Chord - Shadows (feat. Nevve)
One thing to note as well in the difference is the personal difficulty of raids. With 20 people there's lower personal responsibility because asking 20 people to flawlessly follow a fight is a larger ask than 8. With 8 each person has multiple mechanics to resolve and can easily wipe the party if a single person is out of position or dies during a mech.
20-man raids vs 8-man raids. Biggest difference? Probably 8/20 of the raiders in my WoW guild are worth a crap. Less dead weight = doing harder content with less effort trying to carry others over that threshold to winning.
Seems like WoW mythic raiding is artificially made difficult - not because mythic raiding is hard (because it seems FF and WoW are equal in the content department), but the devs placed a lot of artificial barriers to access mythic raiding.
Hardest thing about WoW raiding is limitations tbh:
- First you need 20 decent players.
- Then those players need to have the "right classes/specs"(Ain't strange to see mythic raiders play multiple characters).
- Gear drops is a significant factor. It ain't strange that people get "stuck" with poor items and some stuff increase your output significantly, some tier set bonuses in the past could increase dps output by 10-15%, now It's instead replaced by domination shards which is/was even harder to properly setup.
- Then having 20 people stay focused for a full raid and paying attention to mechanics that may or may not hit them.
Sure at the end of a "season" alot of these factors irons out, since gear makes it easier, good players can then "carry" less optimal players etc. But if you want to do the raids and progress them early on, there's always some hurdles to overcome which is often out of a players controll. I spent most of the last expansion cursing my shamans "weapon situation", I never got any weapons from anything... Then i also was cursed with the "Wail of shadows" curse, all my drops were; Cloaks... from all the sources. So my shaman(main character) was always about 20-30 ilvl's behind my Paladin.
When i play FFXIV many of these issues are just "not there", there's a BiS list which eventually gets completed and It mostly boils down to skill when it comes to any role. Sure I don't mind playing a different job if It's better for a encounter, but It's not like in WoW where i have to log on a different character entierly or remain benched on raid night. Being a restoration shaman main sure had It's perks since they have worthwhile utility, but so had my holy paladin and disc priest... Simply put it was a mess.
Bruh I can't make it, my goldfish in a drowning
i know some people who left wow for FF. The main reason for them to leave wow was the time and they how wow plays. The time to gear up in wow is massive not like in FF where you can easy get gear. ANother point was they said bosses in wow are to hard to play with all mechanics you must remember and a small mistake kills you or your grp.
For myself i exp FF as a much softer and easier game then wow. Bosses wherent that hard to beat. And mistakes wont kill mostly your grp but only you.
but i see FF is a more story fokused game and the main fokus is more on custimzing your hero.
For myself i like wow more mostly because of the grafik settings like in some playing in some kind of comic.
FF ist for myself not good looking, but the bosses are something else
As a player who raided in mythic and savage / ultimate (UWU and TEA also delubrium savage) i can tell who ff14 savage and ultimate are by far more hard they have more mechanics adjusted dps check and if someone mess it up can end on wipe meanwhile on wow u can kill a boss whit half of the party dead.
In LFR maby
LOL
@@jaip7399 raided a mythic dungeon 1 key you mean?
“Less chance of talking over one another “ in FF14 group.
I guess he has never watched a NEST video
Oooooh, don't even get me started on FFXIV static drama, it makes NN look like the kiddie pool in comparison.
I gotta say, I don't miss WoW whatsoever. I quit at the end of tier 1 MoP (came back for one month to kill Garrosh) and even by that point I was so burned out of everything. You'd find a great raid guild, you'd clear the heroics (highest content at the time), then the group would break up even if no drama. Then you'd have to spend weeks sending out job applications and doing interviews to find a new guild. You'd HAVE to do reputation grinds to get BiS enchants which were boring and time gated. Because of no syncing like you said, there was no "Ulduar was fun, let's go do that at min ilvl now that we have this new content on farm". And honestly, not sure if Legion, BfA, or Shadowlands changed anything, but I felt like the raid mechanics were getting pretty bland. Like, Ulduar had a few really cool and unique fights, and Firelands was amazing (Alysrazor is still one of my favorite fights of all time), but overall in a tier with 13 fights there would be maybe two to three fun and unique ones. Even when they were fun they often weren't replayable. It was more like yay we got the kill, now let's never come back. Meanwhile in FF14 I've been farming Levi Unreal for faux leaves since it came out and I'm still not tired of it, and that's one of the oldest/worst fights in the game.
Yeah but which one do you actually enjoy more?
Smaller raid sizes and flexing automatically makes raiding uninteresting and easier in FF.
uwu is the EASIEST ultimate in ffxiv. should have done dsr or tea. hell even ucob
Not wishing to be like "oh Quazii arguments aren't because blablabla''
I know nothing about WoW, my only ever MMO was FFXIV, but hearing that WoW raids are large 30ish people group, wouldn't comparing DRS maybe be better to compare? It would be closer to compare due to the amount of players needed for the fight 🤔
Comparing the amount of people needed to do a raid doesn't inherently mean that it's a direct comparison to the actual substance behind said content which may explain why he hasn't compared DRS to the mythic raids.
When it comes to things like mechanics, yes because there's mechanics you just can't give to a group of 20 people but in terms of difficulty they're nowhere even close. It's a completely different type of content.
Literally impossible to carry people through 8 man content , 20 people you can carry
good luck. Check how many players clear even half of the mythic content in wow....
It's also worth noting that WoW raids are constantly buggy (even with a ptr). Also WoW doesn't have to have a high barrier of entry, the devs just like wasting your time on garbage systems that don't need to exist.
I think the community plays a large part of barrier to entry to raids too. You can have perfectly acceptable gear to be in the raid and all the groups reject you because you are not in full heroic gear trying to run a heroic.
Only time I would go extremes/savages with pug is at release, since everyone goes blind.
I am too lazy to read/watch guides, and it is much more fun to solve the mechanics with your team.
Mechanics are rarely too hard to figure out quite fast.
With guides it feels like cheating, since fights are so heavily scripted that you can almost do them blind folded if you just memorize the patterns - so it kind of takes the fun away from doing it.
goldfish is drowning lmaoo
There was actually one moment in FFXIV's history where there was a "bring the job" moment to cheese a mechanic. Zurvan had a mechanic called soar, which was honestly not exceptionally difficult but skipping mechanics is inarguably easier than doing them properly. The first soar could be skipped by appropriate dps, and the second soar was handled by tank invulns and tank LB. This was the only fight I can think of where non level 3 tank LB had a use.
Anyway, WAR, who up until this point was tank god king, found itself passed up over PLD, who was the expansion's punching bag because WAR's invuln required a target to activate while PLD didn't.
holmgang didnt need a target since 5.2 though
@@TheTroubleshooter And they're talking about a Primal from patch... 3.5 ... 3.4? The Waring Triad...
I'm still finishing the MSQ for FF14 and I'd agree with most of what you say. You forgot to mention the absolute chore in Shadowlands that has been getting sockets for your gear.
Hopefully you can make a follow up video after clearing TEA. That would be interesting xD Since TEA is wayy above compared to UWU and UCOB.
You should try Delubrum Reginae (Savage)
Isn't the only hard part about that one the fact you cannot rez unless you are using Lost Actions and such?
@@Tython82 Mechanics are much harder too. And if you wipe you have to start from the beginning.
Perhaps WoW Mythic is more similar to Delubrum savage instead of ultimate?
Though I don't know which one is more chaotic, progging ultimates or Delubrum savage
DRS is a piece of cake, only casual player struggle on it.
You can't compare the 2. Tea can't be outgeared, wow mythic can. It's hard to experience the real difficulty of mythic for many ppl.
@@Riku2005 When people talk about mythic raiding they talk about raiding for the Cutting Edge achievment which you can only get by clearing the raid before the next raid tier gets released. So while you obviously are stronger at the end of the tier compared to the beginning of the tier, the fight just gets a little easier and not easy and when the next tier gets released and the gear gets so strong that you dont have to properly play the fights anymore the raid is already irrelevant and no one cares if you clear it or not.
@@Riku2005 You're right that you can't go in unsynced and that item level caps exist, but if you waited until 5.0s lifespan of job reworks or a year and a bit after TEAs release to hop in (bozja relic customization), you do have the luxury of having to worry significantly less about the DPS checks.
The FF raids look hideous: a bunch of schoolgirls dancing inside an overlit pinball machine
And no I’ve not played WoW for years.
I... what? Have you *seen* WoW, my dude? Were you high?
BiS...savage raid...you mean
Hero Gauntlet (savage)
Tea would be a better gauge
it was a long video and it needed to be to talk about the nuisances each game has in depth.