The fact that only these 3 abilities generate Vision score may be connected to being the only abilities that give you an assist when they reveal an enemy.
They can also give "assists" to towers. If your Hawkshot reveals an enemy champion who then gets executed, it awards you the kill, including kill gold and shutdown bounties. Same goes for Janna E on turrets, funnily enough, though the fact that you can shield turrets as Janna is a barely known mechanic, in and as of itself.
Interesting, I was going to say you should've checked Lux's E, since that one just gives literal vision of a pretty sizable area for as long as it doesn't explode--but then when you said Swain's eye didn't give vision score it made me think Lux's E probably is in the same boat. Thanks for this video, by the way, good info.
this is hella interesting to watch as a support main i had a vision score of 120 as Umbral+zombie wards Pantheon last week. denying so much wards felt so good
@@happycamperds9917 Disagree! They're nonstandard as far as support goes, but ADC-styled supports work very excellently for this. Senna is a close to standard option if you want to try this with a slightly more traditional support. I commonly run support Kindred and support Quinn. Both of these picks are intended as roaming supports, as their ganks are fairly impactful, but more than that, as vision-denying scouts. For both picks, rushing Umbral as first item is your top priority. Zombie ward is mandatory, and either Ingenious or Relentless Hunter are both excellent options-- Ingenious gives you more wards and vision denial, Relentless gives you stronger roams. For Kindred, you have the upshot of being able to pretty significantly help your jungler without losing very much for it. For those who may not know, you don't need to ever take kills to proc her passive marks, which means that helping your jungler take crabs gives you marks, while they still get the benefits. I often take smite on laning or support Kindred for this reason, as it essentially guarantees double crab as long as you have prio-- If you scout the other jungler out of position for a contesting crabs, your jungler can take one with smite, and you can break the second one's shield with smite so they can immediately take it. Alternatively, you can take the second crab cross map from your jungler at the same timing so that you guarantee the deny on it from the enemy, or use smite to give crab to your ADC for the same reason. And so on and so forth. Quinn's roaming potential is a little lower until you hit 6, but her W is incredibly useful for checking areas and ensuring safe engagements early before your more powerful vision tools are online especially. In lane, her blind makes for a strong trading tool into the enemy ADCs (As long as they're traditional ADCs, she struggles a little more against mage carries since they can usually respond better) and her E can help you peel yourself and your ADC, or set up for ganks when you start roaming, and boy can her ganks be impactful. Both of these picks become very oppressive after getting Umbral online, as their strong roam potential allows them to sweep the map of wards pretty quickly. In a weird way, Kindred is a little better for this in some respects, as I've found with Quinn, the fact that you have to drop out of ult to hit the wards is a little awkward at times. I don't think I need to explain much further, it's already a bit of a wall of text. It's definitely a different playstyle and mindset than many supports, but I encourage you to give it a shot sometime if you think it sounds fun
What u forgot to test are the spells that act like wards. Notably zyra W and nida W. Maybe also pets like heimer's, tibbers ? Anyway as an ashe player with full cdr + max e second, i was persuaded that spells gave nothing, since i wouldnt get notably more vision score than other ranged immobile supp, and always way less than god warders (nida pyke bard etc). But thanks to you i now know that it does but very little x) thanks for the video and all of ur work , ur channel is awesome !
hopped on practice tool, Teemo R does not grant vision score for sitting next to dummies or objectives nor does it for detonating on enemies or objectives
traps would be an interesting mechanic to test. maokai sapling and shaco trap are both abilities that make those champs "useful" supports, and it would be interesting if they count toward VS
Fun fact: Nocturne's R used to give Wd or denied vision score at one point. There was ARURF and a vision quest at the time, and simply told him try to fish for Nocturne. 0 wards placed 150+ vision score every time. My theory out of this is, it might have been bugfixed or patched out at some point.
This is super interesting. Maybe a week ago a friend and I were discussing support and I asked gow Vision Score is determined and they had no idea. Now we both have an answer. I would love to see more videos like this.
Neat. I intuitively guessed that some of this stuff contributed. Thanks for explaining the details of how it works. Never would have guessed on some of it.
what a coincidence. i was curious about how to get more vision score when i saw "get 35 or more vision score" mission. and i was recommended a fresh video about it today on youtube. incredible
Great video and great effort!! The only relevant thing you forget was teemo R and the nocturne R with enemy wards active (they became disable during the R duration). Anyway, great job, tnx!!
I mean i didn't catch up all of it , but thanks so much i mean personally I wouldn't search for such a thing but that seems like it gonna help improving my VisionControl off course . A really enjoyable , informative and different type of a video . All love and support ; keep it up you'll shine very soon buddy
I didn not have the faith to read through all comments, so maybe it's been asked already (I've checked the top ones to be sure but you never know) : How about Horizon Focus ? It gives true sight of the champions hit iirc. Anyway, great video ! As a supp main I'm glad to see the mechanics I already kinda knew put into numbers, so it's clearer wher my score comes from !
Yes, Vision is important, but if you place them not at the right time at the right spot (like place a ward in dragon pit while drake has still 4mins to show up) then it has nothing to say. Place them right at the right time. Vision is for everything in your team helpful as long they are good placed
Hey there! I had a couple vision score questions I think you might be able to answer: Who gets how much vision score when a support reveals a ward, but has the ADC kill the ward? Similarly, at the end-of-game "Wards Destroyed" total, who gets credit for those destroyed wards? The support? ADC? Both?
Great video and maybe there's a weird part of the equation with abilities like Aphelios R where you get no vision score if you combat tag persists, also missed out of other traps besides Caitlyns like Temo, Nid, Zyra, Jhin, or abilities that let you scout like Pyke W or Twitch Q
I was wondering if Lux W added to vision score, (her E probably doesn't because it deals damage) but i'll check it out in practice tool, very good vid btw !
Does destroying or placing illaoi tentacles do anything? For some reason they count as wards for the new challenges that have gone up (killing them counts as killing wards for one mission)
I swear Teemo's Shrooms (and possibly other champs with invisible, destroyable, ward-like traps), give vision score...I always end up with a very solid score on Teemo, after all. Idk, might be wrong about that, but you didn't get to that section of abilities, so I might have to test in-game.
I am pretry sure that something in the train room is wrong on the nocturne ult- vision score, because in general my noct jungle vision score is about double if not even tripple or quadruple as high as my other junglers (depending on lenght of the game betwenn 100 and 350 vision score). Maybe it has somerhing to do with wards, like you "disable" wards for the time of your ult and get a similar score to destroying these
How is vision score split for ward denials? Does each champion that assist in a kill of a ward receive the full vision score adjustment or is it split between them in some way? I.e. should I be KSing wards from my ADC to ensure my vision score stays top notch?
How does Nocturne ult doesn't contribute to vision score. I definetly remember a match i played Nocturne with axiom on urf. I basically ulted every 15 seconds. In the end i had around 250 vision score in a 20 minute match which is pretty far from normal.
Just curious, but how much vision score do scuttle crab and scryer's orb give? Are they both 0.33 per champion as well? What if you spot a ward with them?
I wonder if there is ways to improve this vision score system to more reflect the actual value of the vision given/denied. Most things seem pretty good as they are but for instance the mechanic of wards being worth more if they are further away from your base is kinda silly. It probably tries to promote deep wards over defensive ones but that isnt always better. Imo some of the most important vision to get is the one in your own jungle when your team is significantly behind trying to get to an objective on the map. Also wards that dont see anything over their lifetime can still be incredibly valuable as they tell you where the enemies are not right now. Which by process of elimination is almost as good as seeing them
Im 100% sure noc ult gives you vision score, they always end up with insane amounts unless they changed it recently. maybe its because he also denies wards vision though
So I once swept out 2 wards, left the last hits to my team for the gold sharing, but all 3 of us had 1 ward score at the end of it. (Was a lvl 1 invade)
sure I went 0/9 but have you seen my vision score?
True support humblebragging.
Noob I have more vision score than u. Git gud scrub
*I'm Impressed*
You're the 1st one to achieve a negative digit Vision score 👏
if you're 0/9/20 tank supp that's fine I think
Sure I'm 0/15/7 but gotdam my vision score was 100 at 35 min game end I am the all seeing support that feeds
The fact that only these 3 abilities generate Vision score may be connected to being the only abilities that give you an assist when they reveal an enemy.
What. 11 years of league and I didn't know you get an assist with those
@@eckhart5443 Ashe E explicitly only gives assists if the target was out of vision, even for a second as far as I know.
They can also give "assists" to towers. If your Hawkshot reveals an enemy champion who then gets executed, it awards you the kill, including kill gold and shutdown bounties. Same goes for Janna E on turrets, funnily enough, though the fact that you can shield turrets as Janna is a barely known mechanic, in and as of itself.
Tf ult??
Quinn W doesn't give assist though
Love how in depth it is
Glad you enjoyed it! Was a little scared to put out a video like this
@@BCawk Understandable, sometimes people get turned off by stuff like that. Most supports I know are very calculated though and would also like this.
Momma always to me that, whatever I chose to be in life, I had to be the best at it.
I really appreciate how the ability called Vision of Empire gives no vision score
nice pun/joke
Lee sin’s ability cripple doesn’t affect the enemy with cripple like fiora w does
Interesting, I was going to say you should've checked Lux's E, since that one just gives literal vision of a pretty sizable area for as long as it doesn't explode--but then when you said Swain's eye didn't give vision score it made me think Lux's E probably is in the same boat. Thanks for this video, by the way, good info.
Same with traps that give vision but no vision score like teemos r or jhins e
its bizarre that Swain's eye doesnt give vision score. maybe a bug?
The pride I feel when I play fiddle and get a higher vision score than both supports, sometimes combined is something you don't understand
this is hella interesting to watch as a support main
i had a vision score of 120 as Umbral+zombie wards Pantheon last week. denying so much wards felt so good
Oh, Umbral definitely explains why he gets so much VS. He and Pantheon are the only supports who can really use Umbral.
@@happycamperds9917 Disagree!
They're nonstandard as far as support goes, but ADC-styled supports work very excellently for this. Senna is a close to standard option if you want to try this with a slightly more traditional support.
I commonly run support Kindred and support Quinn. Both of these picks are intended as roaming supports, as their ganks are fairly impactful, but more than that, as vision-denying scouts. For both picks, rushing Umbral as first item is your top priority. Zombie ward is mandatory, and either Ingenious or Relentless Hunter are both excellent options-- Ingenious gives you more wards and vision denial, Relentless gives you stronger roams.
For Kindred, you have the upshot of being able to pretty significantly help your jungler without losing very much for it. For those who may not know, you don't need to ever take kills to proc her passive marks, which means that helping your jungler take crabs gives you marks, while they still get the benefits. I often take smite on laning or support Kindred for this reason, as it essentially guarantees double crab as long as you have prio-- If you scout the other jungler out of position for a contesting crabs, your jungler can take one with smite, and you can break the second one's shield with smite so they can immediately take it. Alternatively, you can take the second crab cross map from your jungler at the same timing so that you guarantee the deny on it from the enemy, or use smite to give crab to your ADC for the same reason. And so on and so forth.
Quinn's roaming potential is a little lower until you hit 6, but her W is incredibly useful for checking areas and ensuring safe engagements early before your more powerful vision tools are online especially. In lane, her blind makes for a strong trading tool into the enemy ADCs (As long as they're traditional ADCs, she struggles a little more against mage carries since they can usually respond better) and her E can help you peel yourself and your ADC, or set up for ganks when you start roaming, and boy can her ganks be impactful.
Both of these picks become very oppressive after getting Umbral online, as their strong roam potential allows them to sweep the map of wards pretty quickly. In a weird way, Kindred is a little better for this in some respects, as I've found with Quinn, the fact that you have to drop out of ult to hit the wards is a little awkward at times.
I don't think I need to explain much further, it's already a bit of a wall of text. It's definitely a different playstyle and mindset than many supports, but I encourage you to give it a shot sometime if you think it sounds fun
What u forgot to test are the spells that act like wards. Notably zyra W and nida W. Maybe also pets like heimer's, tibbers ? Anyway as an ashe player with full cdr + max e second, i was persuaded that spells gave nothing, since i wouldnt get notably more vision score than other ranged immobile supp, and always way less than god warders (nida pyke bard etc). But thanks to you i now know that it does but very little x) thanks for the video and all of ur work , ur channel is awesome !
pretty sure they act like Caitlyn W, which he did test
hopped on practice tool, Teemo R does not grant vision score for sitting next to dummies or objectives nor does it for detonating on enemies or objectives
They tested cait w???
@@phantom8699 yes
@@badgoogle4509 ye manco whines about it sometimes xd
you just answered a life long question in 10 minutes
you sir, earned this sub
traps would be an interesting mechanic to test. maokai sapling and shaco trap are both abilities that make those champs "useful" supports, and it would be interesting if they count toward VS
I'm pretty sure maokai saplings contribute
Fun fact: Nocturne's R used to give Wd or denied vision score at one point. There was ARURF and a vision quest at the time, and simply told him try to fish for Nocturne. 0 wards placed 150+ vision score every time.
My theory out of this is, it might have been bugfixed or patched out at some point.
it worked a few patches ago, it gives 10 vision score per enemy that u affect by your ult, thats how i still do those vision quests
What does still exist is Nocturne consistently getting 250 CC score because of ult xD
Neat
Might not work on test dummies.
I would have guessed the enemy needs wards to effect.
knowledge is power mah boi, thx for this
Thanks for the kind comment homie. Hope this helped clear some things up :P
This is super interesting. Maybe a week ago a friend and I were discussing support and I asked gow Vision Score is determined and they had no idea. Now we both have an answer. I would love to see more videos like this.
Regarding vision I think it also takes into account how many times it spots enemy champions into account
Neat. I intuitively guessed that some of this stuff contributed. Thanks for explaining the details of how it works. Never would have guessed on some of it.
Really great content man, I can tell this channel will eventually skyrocket soon.
what a coincidence. i was curious about how to get more vision score when i saw "get 35 or more vision score" mission. and i was recommended a fresh video about it today on youtube. incredible
Great video and great effort!! The only relevant thing you forget was teemo R and the nocturne R with enemy wards active (they became disable during the R duration). Anyway, great job, tnx!!
Loved the vid! I like that you actually tested what the wiki said instead of just reading it!
Really enjoyed these in-depth game mechanics! Keep it up!
As a supp main who keeps getting sad that enemy supps have half or less my vision score... Thanks for this vid and I'm now subbed.
Great video, I'm starting the edits within the wiki community now
I mean i didn't catch up all of it , but thanks so much i mean personally I wouldn't search for such a thing but that seems like it gonna help improving my VisionControl off course . A really enjoyable , informative and different type of a video . All love and support ; keep it up you'll shine very soon buddy
I had always wondered how wards work Thanks man!!
And the edits are live. Again thank you for the deligent testing
Thank you for all the effort that was put into the research for this video.
Absolutely appreciate and love you for the effort that went into this one
very informative bro goodjob very unique content 2 10/9
I want you to know that your videos are so great to see, and just so educational thanks and keep it up
I didn not have the faith to read through all comments, so maybe it's been asked already (I've checked the top ones to be sure but you never know) :
How about Horizon Focus ? It gives true sight of the champions hit iirc.
Anyway, great video ! As a supp main I'm glad to see the mechanics I already kinda knew put into numbers, so it's clearer wher my score comes from !
Thank you so much for how depth it is
Yes, Vision is important, but if you place them not at the right time at the right spot (like place a ward in dragon pit while drake has still 4mins to show up) then it has nothing to say. Place them right at the right time. Vision is for everything in your team helpful as long they are good placed
you put in so much work and did such a great presentation, here's a sub!
My guy loved the content, have you thought about doing a video on cc score? Could be a nice sequel
Plays top against Zac jg
Places pink in the bush behind the 1st tower
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves
Hey there! I had a couple vision score questions I think you might be able to answer:
Who gets how much vision score when a support reveals a ward, but has the ADC kill the ward?
Similarly, at the end-of-game "Wards Destroyed" total, who gets credit for those destroyed wards? The support? ADC? Both?
Vision score is calculated by takedowns on enemy wards, so you and adc get the same vision score if you both hit it.
Was super interesting! I always thought you got more vision score for "detecting" enemies around your ward
I am officially subbed now. Keep up the awesome content!
Amazing quality. You put in a lot of effort
Great video and maybe there's a weird part of the equation with abilities like Aphelios R where you get no vision score if you combat tag persists, also missed out of other traps besides Caitlyns like Temo, Nid, Zyra, Jhin, or abilities that let you scout like Pyke W or Twitch Q
Thank you for sharing those informations, great video you worked well ! thumbs up here !
Really well presented and informative video mate well done.
Now can we have the video on best places to place wards early mid and late game. Thanks.
Not a bad idea, I'll look into it thanks for checking it out!
What about kai’sa’s W (void seeker) though? It grants sight in its trajectory and reveals them on hit?
Presumably same as Rek'sai's Prey Seeker. Its a poke tool that supplements her passive/Ult and AP Kaisa's burst. Its not for the vision.
Great guide man!!!
I thought it gave points by spotting enemies and destroyig enemy wards, 1 for each instance.
It's good to know it gives points based on time aswell.
I was wondering if Lux W added to vision score, (her E probably doesn't because it deals damage) but i'll check it out in practice tool, very good vid btw !
This man put so much effort into this he deserves alot more views and appreciation
Man... what a fantastic video about vision. Geez... I never saw something NEAR to this content. It should be Riot Official
Bro il support main too and I was damn tryin to understand this
Just thanks you
Keep going this kind of topic
Amazing work put on this video man, congrats
this will go viral.
Does destroying or placing illaoi tentacles do anything? For some reason they count as wards for the new challenges that have gone up (killing them counts as killing wards for one mission)
So.... does Crab give vision to only your team or to both teams depending on which team kills it?
I swear Teemo's Shrooms (and possibly other champs with invisible, destroyable, ward-like traps), give vision score...I always end up with a very solid score on Teemo, after all.
Idk, might be wrong about that, but you didn't get to that section of abilities, so I might have to test in-game.
I don't know about gaining with shrooms but I can tell with certainty you don't get vision score by clearing teemo shrooms.
just liked cuz of the creative thumbnail
what about shaco boxes and teemo mushrom ?
just a question, what if you put your wards in your abse after all three inhibitors get detroyed?
Insane you tested this! Still gonna spam my wards before recall tho 😂. Did you also check the horizon focus item? Curious about this one too!
I am pretry sure that something in the train room is wrong on the nocturne ult- vision score, because in general my noct jungle vision score is about double if not even tripple or quadruple as high as my other junglers (depending on lenght of the game betwenn 100 and 350 vision score). Maybe it has somerhing to do with wards, like you "disable" wards for the time of your ult and get a similar score to destroying these
How is vision score split for ward denials? Does each champion that assist in a kill of a ward receive the full vision score adjustment or is it split between them in some way? I.e. should I be KSing wards from my ADC to ensure my vision score stays top notch?
Is the vision score from denied wards split (like gold is) when the ADC last hits the ward while the support is sweeping?
nearsighted doesn't count to vision score, but it does for cc score! That's why noct usually has crazy high CC scores
What about lux E?
Teemo R gives vision score that's why I love playing him support, because of the vision score and nothing else
Just found this video and i must say your voice is amazing and for that you're getting a sub. (Edit: your video is also amazing fyi)
How does Nocturne ult doesn't contribute to vision score. I definetly remember a match i played Nocturne with axiom on urf. I basically ulted every 15 seconds. In the end i had around 250 vision score in a 20 minute match which is pretty far from normal.
Excuse me, but do stuffs like Shaco box or Nadlee W which I consider as information skill give vision points?
I was surprised T.F. ulti don't give vision score, the first part of his ulti is only for reveal enemies.
Did you try Nida traps? I'd say they're very vision centric. Maybe along Teemo shrooms and Jhin E.
I really do think that Swain W should give vision score. I mean, it's literally called VISION of Empire!
Do you get a minimal amount for wards cleared?
Like does it make sense to last hit an almost dead ward?
I WOULD RECOMMEND MY FRIENDS TO WATCH THIS
Just curious, but how much vision score do scuttle crab and scryer's orb give? Are they both 0.33 per champion as well? What if you spot a ward with them?
What about Teemo's ult or Shaco's W? Have you tried? Also zero?
you're sick, that was awesome :D
What about using sweeper? I’ve used sweeper in the past and not located any wards and my vision score still goes up by one
Reaally nice vid !
I wonder if there is ways to improve this vision score system to more reflect the actual value of the vision given/denied. Most things seem pretty good as they are but for instance the mechanic of wards being worth more if they are further away from your base is kinda silly. It probably tries to promote deep wards over defensive ones but that isnt always better. Imo some of the most important vision to get is the one in your own jungle when your team is significantly behind trying to get to an objective on the map.
Also wards that dont see anything over their lifetime can still be incredibly valuable as they tell you where the enemies are not right now. Which by process of elimination is almost as good as seeing them
You could ask enemy supp to inflate your vision score by letting you kill wards next to his nexus with umbral glaive
Fiddle's wards are really odd when it comes to vision score. I get sooo much every time i play
Kaisa W has text that describes it as giving vision right?
Im 100% sure noc ult gives you vision score, they always end up with insane amounts unless they changed it recently. maybe its because he also denies wards vision though
I thought the same, but it's actually CC Score. Nocturnes get ridiculous amounts of CC Score due to their ults.
This is why I get 200 vision score per hour, insider info 👍
300IQ and 200 vision score??? Azzapp OP
But why do I have a vision score of 1 after running into the enemy jungle with a sweeper at level 1 even without spotting any enemy wards?
I applaud the hustle
what about teemo shorms
When I've played teemo, it doesn't seem to go up, like at all.
Great work!
Does ashe E give vision score if it sees already seen champions or is it only when it reveals them?
wow well done with the vid!
good video, i have had this exact question multiple times. thx youtube agorithm for showing me! And thx for the good content!
So where do I place my wards for the best score?
amazing and very interesting video!!!
So I once swept out 2 wards, left the last hits to my team for the gold sharing, but all 3 of us had 1 ward score at the end of it. (Was a lvl 1 invade)
What about teemo shrooms especially in combination with the item that grants vision on slow and Quinn w?
How much vision score does the scuttle crab, vision plant, and blue ward activation give?
Also, do abilities like ashe arrow give vision score only on champions revealed or epic monsters too?
does nidalees trap work since it says it grants sight when activated?
Great content!
what about teemo shrooms and shaco boxes? since those are "wards" with hit points
What was the music that played during the montage?
Honestly I had no idea that this mechanic is so deep. I feel bad for not knowing that despite maining support lul
What's about nida / turrets / zyra plants / corki Q ?