Leo's faith crisis and how it inspired him to start the Uplift Community of Faith to help others
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- "So that is what I needed to do, find a way to trust my leaders again and their humanity, they are human. And being able to trust that God can still work miracles through these humans. He can and he does! He has done amazing things through me - and I know me, and I know my problems and I know that The Lord has worked miracles through me! I've seen it! If God can work through someone like Leo and do some pretty great things. Not because of me, but because of Him, then I know that through personal experience, and have seen that amazing miracle. I know that through the church Christ is working and that is the miracle of the church. And once I saw that everything made sense."
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"The best missionaries are those who serve, and love, and listen, and then walk together." Well said Leo!
Beautiful episode!! I am so glad I have found your channel. I have two children that have left the church. Your channel gives me hope that one day they might come back. Thank you. ❤️❤️❤️
I totally identify with not disclosing your faith crisis to your sweet wife. I also have an angelic wife and I didn’t want to be responsible for inflicting her with the darkness I was in. Why would I want to knock her off her spiritual plain? I wanted out of that darkness, not to drag her into it. Seeing her glow and goodness gave me a anchor.
Maybe you're being serious, maybe you're being sarcastic, but I say in earnest: a man especially should not accept any obligation to open up, share or "be vulnerable" with his wife about his doubts.
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp definitely sincere. That same attitude goes for my children and close friends. Why make my doubts their doubts. Especially when I was just in the discovery phase. I’m more open now because I’ve seen the end of the movie and the good guys win!
@@jerry_phillips Good. I went through some crisis of my own, and there came a time when my wife said she thought I was leaving the Church, and I realized I had been too free with expressing what was going on. I've come through stronger, and I wish I had kept a lot more to myself when I was facing the hardest questions.
@@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp yes, you never know if the other person you’re confiding in will invest the time to research it to the end in the same way you did or if they’ll just take it at face value. I’ve come to realize the primary questions are the anchors of our faith and the secondary are unending and not a productive pursuit spiritually.
Is this from Stand Forever by Laurence Corbridge?
I love Leo Winegar! He and his Uplift Community have been a great blessing in my life. Thank you both!❤
So sad. I became a member at 50 years old well over 20 years ago. maybe because 50 years of worldly living desensitized me of any shock having to do with the Church. I’ve heard it’s hard to be a convert, but I think it’s harder to have been born in the church and sheltered. The more I heard about things as discussed here the more enthused I became about the church. I surely would not let any TikTok or anything else having to do with the masses throw me off course.
“By their fruits ye shall know them”💕💕💕 Amen!!
Leo’s story is so faith affirming. I can relate; when I explored my question of faith (the one that really bothered me), I also received answers from the Lord. If we go to Him in humility, faith, and patience (we need to be willing to wait for answers sometimes), He will answer. He wants us to come to Him, He wants to strengthen our faith. For me, it was worth the struggle and the discomfort because now I can say that the one thing that bothered me has been resolved by the Lord, and no one can take that away from me. I love that Leo has taken his experience and gone on to help so many. His story inspires me!
One problem, people who quit give up the true Bible teaching that a man is not without the women in God's kingdom. They now embrace the belief that God takes away your marriage at death and destroys your family unit forever that you sacrificed your whole life to have. You must now float around by yourself single for eternity. That's hell not heaven. LDS is the only true biblical Christ today.
@@paulgregersen3570Happiness is the plan of a majestic loving God. Family matters for a men to be happy.
@@knotskieskyramirez9491 Matthew 22: 24-28. It's important that Christ's answer to the Saducees question whose wife of the 7 brothers who were all married to her, will she be married too in the resurrection? Must be understood in its biblical context. No.1 The Saducees didn't believe in the resurrection. No.2 ( No more earthly works are possible) by the time the resurrection and final judgment is here. By that late time it is too late to get baptized, or be saved, or get married. All earthly works are finished and no more work can be done! It's the final judgment! Christ says they won't be passing wives out when it's all over! You can't wait until the school year ends to prepare for graduation! Christ answered them by telling them there is no more marriages by the time the resurrection arrives. He didn't say no marriages before the final judgment. They tried to trick Christ by a man who married a woman by the laws of God. Then the man suddenly dies! This man had NO kids with this woman! God's law in Israel says this man's brother must marry the women except he HAD kids with her! Then he suddenly dies, and 5 more marry her and all die, leaving her with many kids. Well, God's law says that all these brothers must raise these kids unto the FIRST dead husband only. Why? He's dead! Why raise a family for a dead guy up in heaven if there is no marriage and family after death? The answer is simple, the first husband married this woman for eternity and the other brothers did not. They were raising a family for the dead guy up in heaven. God law says they must raise seed( children) unto the first dead husband only. Read it? To see why all Christian churches fail to understand the Bible saying no marriage in heaven is wrong! It says only the resurrection not heaven they lie. Link UTube ( Book of Abraham part 7). .. by only Paul Gregersen name on the video.
I love this, it's crazy how similar my experiences have been compared to Leo's. A big reason I stopped sharing my spiritual experiences was because of the often negative responses from skeptics. The skeptics ranged from members to non members alike. It was devastating to experience a miracle and then have them easily rationalized as being nothing more than psychology creation of my own making. After several spiritual experiences though and choosing to keep seeking truth, I could look back on my experiences and the skeptical thoughts started to have less and less of an effect.
I have been thinking about this a lot lately as well. I am glad you are moving forward from it!
It really is hard to keep sharing when our experiences are discounted and dismissed or openly contested. I think I need to better discern from the Spirit what is appropriate to share when and with whom. I like that approach better than constantly condemning myself for being a coward 👍🏻😉
Leo’s wife was very smart and is what Lawrence Corbridge states as focusing on the primary questions. John Dehlin is evil and will have his day before the Lord. He try’s to tell people they can get closer to God if they leave the church and then they don’t believe in anything and find themselves stranded in a faith crisis.
Well said!
Exactly. I remember that Satan was described as the enticer, once he gets you he brutally damages you, and then when you need a hug and another perspective he laughs at you while walking away with his back turned to you to get more souls to dump into the same pit of darkness. John Dehlin is Satan, 100%.
John Dylan is not evil John Dylan encourages people to look at both sides. He doesn’t influence people one way or the other. He just presents information you’re wrong.
@@shawnjensen3896this is not dehlin. He absolutely pushes his side.
Are we talking about the same person, Shawn? My 6th sense says he’s evil when I look at Dehlin
I LOVE this episode!!!! Inspiring and enlightening! I've been down my fair share of rabbit holes. I had to go back to the basics. I never lost my belief in the Book of Mormon being the word of God. I couldn't, because it's truthfulness had been witnessed to me in a sacred experience. I cannot and never will deny that it happened. So when things got dark and questions came up I always had that experience and others to fall back on. We are all humans and humans make mistakes...even Prophets and Apostles are human...so if they do or have ever done something they shouldn't it's between them and God. They have to work that out between them. I have enough to repent of. I loved Leo's simple testimony. I think we should all be more mindful of the words we use when when baring our testimonies. Words are powerful. When I say "mindful" I mean to be in touch with what we really believe because if we do that it will carry the spirit into the hearts of those who listen. God bless you for your efforts in having this podcast! ❤️
Wow one of my favorite episodes. Leo is so well versed in this faith crisis terminology and really understands what the anti retórica is trying to say. I am so grateful for his pastoral care with people that are going through this intense pain. Wow, I learned so much and thank you for sharing!
Leo, I love your testimony! You are so true - I listened closely to your story and realized that I heard exactly the same experience that the other brother expressed about his coming back to church. I love listening to people like yourself and others who decided to come back on the covenant path! Thank You!😍
Thank you for your kinds words. I send my best, and if I can ever be of service, please let me know.
I really appreciate these "come back" interviews. Leo's is certainly one of my favorites. Thank you both, Ashly and Leo. Thank you both for putting yourselves out there so publically and so honestly. I relate very much to much of Leo's own faith crisis. I don't need to give details of my own faith reconstruction, other than to say I've always had a desire to go down rabbit holes that would, or could possibly, challenge my faith. It's only come back to eventually strengthen my testimony while knowing that first and foremost, the foundation of testimony ultimately begins and ends with faith in Christ. Thank you both again! Ashy, your interview/podcast skills have always been so good, and they're just getting better all the time.
Thank you so much for helping me understand my brother and his decision to leave. I will continue to “walk with him”. ❤
I love this man! I watched Leo grow up, I know his heart, and don't you love his smile? His whole face smiles and lights up❤ I didn't know he went through a faith crisis, but I do know his goodness never faded. And now he's helping to rescue others and reaching them armed with his own story.
"...if it so be that you should labor all your days...and bring [return] save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father!" D&C 18:15.
Love you, Leo
Hi Deb, our family appreciates and loves you. Thanks for being such a good friend to my mom. We'll see you again this summer!
This is a testament to if you love someone you should tell them, thanks!
Fascinating discussion. Thanks to you both!
That’s one thing I can’t wrap my head around: how can the 15 men leading this church today who offer up such beautiful concepts and teachings at conference be liars , deceivers, charlatans, false prophets ??? These 15 men live the gospel every day. These men keep the covenants they make in the temple. How can these men be deceivers ?
And what is the motivation to lie. It isn’t money or popularity or anything else. They literally dedicate every moment of their lives to the gospel and live it.
I know. It’s utterly ridiculous. People who have served their whole lives since childhood. While having extremely demanding full time professional careers and large families. Yeah, they’re such usurpers 🙄 while leaders in the ex-mo roadshow are all asking for money 🥴
@@millennialfalkon right! That's what gets me. John Dehlin now makes almost double what an apostle makes. And John Dehlin focus solely on doubt, fear, and pain
I don't know, Talk to Paul Dunn, He will explain...
So are you saying they never lie? I have actual proof that they have if you would like for me to send you the material, you would be most welcome.
Loved the discussion about how a mere accusation has so much power, before any investigation of the facts. Leo has a great mind and it's a great blessing that the Lord found a way to reach his mind and heart. Praise God for miracles. Thanks so much for sharing !!!
THANK YOU FOR SHARING. YOU HAVE SAID IT. NONE OF THE NOISE OR FOG IS IMPORTANT. HOLD TO THE IRON ROD.
Thank you for this podcast. I just found you and this episode. I know how it feels to leave the church for reasons I don’t want to get into right now. I’ve talked bad about the church even yelling matches. The guilt I’ve held for over 50 years. My wife and I have started going back to church and the new atmosphere is amazing even for this tattooed up great great grandson of Wilford Woodruff. Try harboring that guilt. Anyway thank you I just finds very tearful confession and asked for repentance. Thank you for this podcast.
Love this. I assume you know of the Wilford Woodruff Papers Project?
@@Come.Back.Podcast I’m studying that now. I also have a copy of his journal that’s amazing reading. I used to be ashamed and make fun of the fact that I was born into Mormon royalty so I can do whatever I want I’ve got a place reserved for me in Heaven. Now I’m very grateful to have him as a great great grandfather. I thank our Heavenly Father every night to have been so blessed.
What a great podcast! Thanks for sharing and I know something we all need to work on is working on listening and caring for those that hate and leave the church. I find myself too often combating with them but I love that statement by Lauren, “if President Nelsen saw my comments would he approve of them.” I have shifted my comments towards “love, share, and invite” much more and MY feelings in those interactions have become much more SPIRIT filled vs ADRENALINE filled. I love this so much, and Leo if you read this I’d love to connect. Thank you all for what you do!
I LOVED this podcast and Leo's insightful perspective.
It seems to me that Leo hit the root of the topic when he spoke of reconciling with the infallibility of leaders. "Lack of trust in the senior church leaders" was identified as one of the leading reasons for millennials leaving the church. Based on my tiny sample size of people I have worked with - I feel at times it is less about mistakes that are made than it is the perception about how those mistakes are handled (perception they are not seeing open, honest transparency, accountability, remorse, but instead experiencing reluctant conceding, reactive adjustments and no apology). The whole experience of God working with man is God working in spite of men's weaknesses and mistakes-which makes personal spiritual experiences so important
Personally profound for me to hear the importance of Leo's personal miracles from the Savior...and reminds me that my job is to listen, love, care, invite and trust that Savior will work within each person's agency to provide them opportunities to experience the Savior's love. Sometimes hard to be patient and remember my timing is not the Lord's timing.
I think they ex-mo community is quite diverse... I know some are very angry, feel they have a calling to expose things they felt were hidden from them-and some will use any means to persuade. On the other hand, some I interact with are not angry, join activities with active LDS present and have retained strong values- yet feel the church is not true/not for them. And I suspect there is a wide range of experiences in between those extremes. I know for us humans it can be helpful and useful to discuss trends and groups - fortunately, the Lord works one-by-one in each person's unique circumstances.
This is an interesting take on how information, and how much information is shared in the church. I understand his idea that Church History is boring, although I am fascinated by it.
I joined the church my Freshman year of college, and went on my mission 18 months later. Within the first 2 and a half years, I had been exposed to all of the anti arguments that I hear today. I came home from my mission in 1988, and I am shocked that so many have never heard these controversial topics that affect people's testimonies.
The church has never hid this information, but perhaps it wasn't readily spoken of or made available.
I love this podcast, and sharing people's experiences of how they have come back to God and the Gospel!! It seems the common thread to most, if not all of these wonderful people is the development of their relationship with God and Jesus Christ!!! That is exactly where it is at.
I joined the church almost 30 years ago at 18 years old. I am fascinated by these stories of life long members trying to come to terms with these aspects of church history. I am so grateful for missionaries that kept nothing hidden from me and my passion for history. Like you it was all fascinating to me!
Very depressed and upset when a brother or a sister leave the church for whatever reason. Always ask myself why? And then as my testimony grow stronger and my faith increases in the truthfulness of the Gospel, I realised I got it all wrong questioning why members leave the church but the real question is, Why I’m still a member a member of the church?❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
This was such a tremendous podcast!!!! Thank you so much. God Bless You for your honesty and seeking to help and guide others. You two are INCREDIBLE. Latter-Day Heroes!!! ❤❤❤
Great talk. I love that you have made this conversation available to us. The talk by Davis Bitton at Fair Mormon "I do not have a testimony of the history of the church" any way thanks again for sharing this conversation
Bless you, bless both of you! Thank you so much for your honesty and faith. I am one of those older members who has never had a faith crisis. I just love the gospel. I’m not naive, but I think all will be straightened out in the end. If leaders have done wrong they will be held accountable. I do have 2 adult children out of 7 who have left the church. Even though I’m broken hearted, I know God knows their hearts and they are in his care. They are both really good Christians and we have a good relationships.
I believe there is great value in authentically addressing all of the churches history issues, because if the church is true, then there will always be answers that need not be feared, and the fear is gone, and the understanding hads come, the foundation is much stronger.
I would go even as far as to say that most people would benefit if the church would acknowledge that there were things going wrong, and that even some of the Prophets were just humans, for in the end, noone is perfect, and those that try to achieve being perceived as perfect, will ultimatly fail.
So, simply being authentic about addressing things for what they are, without the need to bend anything to make a faith work, will turn out benefitial to each one of us.. At least thats what it has done for me to really don't care about what I will encounter, as along as I don't deceive myself into a construct of illusionary faith..
Leo brought up the website LDS scholars testify. I have read many if not all of those personal testimonies. They are wonderful!
I guess you could say that I’m a “Child like faith” kind of guy. I listen to some arguments against the church but I don’t give them much credence. Instead, I find much more growth studying the gospel and serving in my callings. I feel bad for people who lose so much valuable time in the dark when there is so much to do in the light.
Honest, uplifting and awesome!!!
I've never had a faith crisis but let me tell you, this is amazing, I love listening to these stories because there are questions that need to be answered. One's spiritual exprience ultimatlely need explanation, it gets to a point that ones feelings and "6th sense" experiences need to be explained, broken down and better understood in order for us to come to "know" and move away from simply "I believe."
Well said, Leo. Thank you for your insights and testimony. Hold to the rod.
This is such an incredible podcast!
I have NEVER had a faith crisis, but it has helped me understand friends who having questions!
And Ashely’s teeth are Amazing! 😊
Thank you Ashly & Leo. I really liked this episode.
I doubt the doubters. I critique the critics. I challenge what perfect people our critics are.
This is the best podcast!
"Up Lift Community of Faith" Love what you are doing. Mi esposo es de Uruguay. Gracias por compartir tu historia.
Gracias Hermana Almeida. Que Dios les bendiga.
The thought that came to me one morning when I was introduced to material that accused the early prophets of serious sins was “looking at these accusations is like spending all of your time basing your testimony on archeological evidence of where the scriptures took place” & “ask God if these things are true “ I’m still working on hearing the voice of the lord after these crushing accusations towards our first 3 prophets of the church.
Hang in there. Never stop praying daily. Read from the BofM daily. And with time you will receive a calm assurance that the BofM is true. You will receive what you need but you have to continue these activities to stay firm. The deceiver is always waiting in the wings to trip you up and pull you down. Be aware of your adversary and know how he works on you. Particularly. He never sleeps and knows your weaknesses.
Thankyou for sharing your stories and personal journeys to the gospel . Very inspirational and the truth will set you free.
We need to hear about your wife and how she handled this. My life shattered when my spouse told me he was out of the church. My family's lives have changed and not for the better. There is no support for spouses whose lives have been shattered by their spouse's disaffection.
I kept my faith crisis a secret from my wife. When I finally told her what happened, I had started to find reasonable answers to my concerns. I'm so sorry that you're going through such a hard time. If you join Uplift, we can offer additional support.
I don't know if this is helpful at all, as not just people are so different from one person to the next, but marriages and relationships are also so different from one to the next. I certainly feel for your situation and know that most of the time there are no simple answers. I've had family and friends leave the church and some have become very outspoken in the process. In my own effort to understand them, I turned to the Lord to ask how I could help them, and even how to help others before they went down the same path that lead others out of the faith. The answer that I received was very personal, at least it was for me. The answer was similar to Leo's message to "meet people where they are". To not denigrate their honest, heartfelt choices. But to listen and seek to understand them. Then realize that they are on their own journey, but that regardless of where they are now, they are not lost to the Lord. This next part was, for me, the biggest revelation and help in allowing me some degree of peace vs a feeling of loss for them. That was an understanding that these good people, whether in the faith or out of the faith, are still very much a part of the Saviour's and Heavenly Father's plan, whether they are aware of it or not. They may appear to be on the outside for the moment, but that is just a perception that we have within the church, and not necessarily accurate. No one is outside of the Saviour's plan, ever. They are lost in a sense, but they are not lost to Christ and His awareness of and love for them. In the parable of the prodigal son, the father let his son take his inheritance early, using his agency to go into the world to the total detriment of the son and his happiness. He loved him the same, I'm sure prayed for him the same, and was always patiently hoping, praying and waiting for his return, if and when that ever was to happen. In the parable the son returns and is restored his place and blessings. That "return" may not happen to our family and friends who have left the faith in a time frame that makes sense to us, or that brings us immediate peace. But again, they are not lost to the Lord and they are still very much a part of His great plan. Just love, support and even accept your husband for where he is now (so long as boundaries of both love and respect are otherwise a part of their behavior and your relationship). I realize none of this may be new to you and your thought process. But I believe that there is no other way than to love people, accept their choices, and do so while we still remain faithful ourselves.
Too late for us. He became hostile. If I didn't chose him over God it was over. I realize now that he must not have felt loved by me. I regret that and feel sad that I let "a problem to be solved be more important than a person to be loved"
I had to hide my scripture study and endure the name calling: "brainwashed, blind, foolish, spoon fed" such a difficult time. He's taken half the children out of the church so far. The hostility has died down, but not soon enough. My health was declining and my small frame couldn't handle more weight loss.
Wish I'd had support during those painful years. I still love him and pray for his return to God. We ended up divorced. Still sad about that.
I know God has a plan and I've learned invaluable lessons from the whole ordeal. I'm much more open and less rigid than I was before. My testimony of Jesus Christ is my main joy in life.
So glad there are people like you, Leo.
@markjaye8182
Thank you for your thoughtful response. So touched by your kindness.
Loved this! Thank you!
Heavenly father let's us choose to leave because we come back stronger im so proud of those who left then had the humility and courage and faith to come back welcome home
Leo, Thanks so much for your testimony. I’m glad to hear of your ‘come back’ story. I, too have listened to Mormon Stories on UA-cam and I was curious until I realized that John DeLin is THE ULTIMATE modern day Korihor!! I wait for the day for his “dues”. I don’t know what bit his butt but he lives the attention he gets and gives against the church. It makes me disgusted that he’s making money by speaking against the church! He was a member and my point is he KNOWS better!! One day…..
There’s a lot of muddy water out there but Joseph Smith could NOT have written the BofM so the Church is true whatever mud anybody throws!
Keep up the great work on the podcast ❤️
I like you’re attitude studying with faith and talking about this difficult topics with the ones who love us and are concerned about our eternal welfare not just the truth and proving people wrong.
Great episode! Thanks for doing these podcasts!😊
I enjoyed hearing a story that didn’t involve spirals of addiction. I’m unable to relate to addiction. My dad told me as a small child over and over that addiction was very strong in our family. All my cousins were in AA in high school. So anything that I’ve ever consumed that “beckons” to my cells of my body to be consumed again, I’m adamant to not partake again for a long time. So I don’t give in to it. Like chocolate, or caffeine soda. I do it sparingly, because I won’t allow addiction to win. I refuse to go into the spirals of addiction. So it’s extremely hard for me to relate to people who allow the addictions to win.
I’m 57 and have refused weed and alcohol, so “it” wouldn’t win.
I like interviews that have more of an intellectual spin, vs. addiction spin.
Great episode! Thank you, so much!
We often times have a faith crisis when we heed those in the large and spacious building.
1Nephi8: 34 These are the words of my father: For as many as heeded them, had fallen away.
33 And great was the multitude that did enter into that strange building. And after they did enter into that building they did point the finger of scorn at me and those that were partaking of the fruit also; but we heeded them not.
Awesome.
Sunday ngt - March 12, 2023.
We have the responsibility to learn to distinguish between different kinds of feelings. There are affects and passions, and there are deeper feelings that I think would better be described as intuition. I think of the parable of the sower. There are people who convert quickly with flaring zeal, driven by passion. I've seen people like that turn on the Church too, in a fit of passion. So much of what human beings do in groups is reinforce a "vibe," if you will, of shared affects and passions. "Cults" are extremes of that, but in degree rather than kind: groupthink is a phenomenon of human weakness. The truths of eternity, the Gospel, they're much deeper than all this. The more we can do to help each other discern and recognize the depth of spiritual witness the better. Spiritual witness can cause an emotional reaction, but it is not the same thing.
I've felt Christ's love and power, and I've connected more strongly and deeply to the Truth of the Book of Mormon, its nourishing richness.
About telling or not telling a spouse about a faith crisis: I heard a podcast years ago where people were rhapsodizing about the importance of emotional intimacy in marriage and how sharing doubts between a married couple made the relationship stronger. I've grown quite wary of that attitude: I think those people were drunk on an idealism that doesn't hold up to reasoned scrutiny. Leo did the right thing.
This was a lovely interview, thanks for holding it and sharing it.
The winning comes from the observers reactions.
I love this podcast!
Thank you. I have a somewhat similar story but I did manage to hang on by a thread and eventually rebuild. I have three siblings who have left the Church. One brother was just like your experience but he left and took his wife and nine beautiful children with him. It broke my heart. I started talking with him and reading what he was reading but I tried to read from apologetics perspective. It sent me spiraling into a huge downward spiral. Holding on by a piece of thread. I went down for years not saying anything to my husband. I went to Church but doubts were there in everything I heard.
Welcome *back* Brother Leo !
19:11. "The morning breaks, the shadows flee."
32:23. Beware of the power of accusation.
35:46. Thriving in peace through The Atonement of Jesus Christ !
48:17 Listing positive resources.
52:52. QUESTION: Do you have any doubts or concerns that still bother you?
1:03:22. My Testimony 2.0 .
I am undergoing a faith crisis.
The non church sources are very convincing.
You should look into reading some of the books from our book club. We just finished reading Seekers Wanted last month and that book has changed my perspective on so many things. Also a case for the Book of Mormon by Tad Callister is very informative.
www.comebackpodcast.org/book-club/
Hey Mark, would you like to talk on the phone sometime?
@@Leowinegar I am very unconvinced about many points.
I live in Europe.
Can I send you an email?
I know you'll end up being in the comments so, hey Leo.
Hey buddy, have a good day!
If critics are still bringing up DNA, they are either not looking in the right geographical location, or they aren't aware of more correct scholarship on the new findings. OR they are dishonest.
It's nice to learn and apriciate the history but history and scientific evidence alone won't give you a testimony but when we are prayerful and sincerly looking for the truth the holy spirit will reveal it to us only when we are spiritually ready because God doesn't want us mocking His revelation of the truthfulness of the church
Hi! I have a friend who I think would be a great guest on your podcast. How can I get in touch with you about details?
Thank you! Please email ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com
That is scary that accusers have the power to carry a lie and you believe it and it can tear you away from the truth and the gospel.
Just like Satan.
@@wendyfoster5579 You have no proof Satan exists. Blaming evil and messed up individuals on Satan’s influence is based off of nothing. People make bad, evil choices on their own free will and choice. There is not a demon whispering in their ear.
@@lukev483 yes and you have no proof he doesn’t but for some reason you are watching shows on faith. I spend no time watching shows contrary to faith, so that’s something to consider.
Amen.
For all the faithless and accusers, NONE of them go on to live MORE holy, saintlike lives.
NONE of them serve more, give more, love more than any they are accusing. Often, they’re happy to degenerate while waving wild fingers around pointing at everyone except their own hypocrisy, while begging for money for their channels. It’s utterly ridiculous.
Misjudgemnt bigtime. Judge not that you be not judged.
Like Mormons live saint like lives. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Mormons are not like that.
What is the name of the book you said you were on chapter 8? Faith is a not what??
Faith is Not Blind by Bruce and Marie Hafen
President Nelson was an innovative heart surgeon .
An innovative prophet. He cut the church time down by a third. Truly a prophet of God. 😂
I remember going to my ward in Atlanta and asking my dad why the man who bore his testimony said he had faith that he’d one day be able to pass the sacrament and receive all his blessings. I learned then about blacks and the priesthood. It didn’t make sense to me. I was almost 5 years old living in the south and had no comprehension of racism. Learning about these things while very young is very much like an inoculation. I’m grateful for my a dad’s candor.
My mother was always joking about being descendants of the second wives club-plural marriage wives. Polygamy never seemed horrific at all-especially when she would say she could use a sister wife to get all her work done. 😂
Great 😃 points! It's all in how we view these things. Goodness Brigham Young had about 27 wives, then why would members struggle with Joseph Smith having more than 1 wife. I believe it's in the spirit of these podcast's. They are purposely salacious and undermining to destroy peoples faith. It's one thing to leave the church and go your separate way, but to tear others down is just plain wrong. John Dehlin is evil and was instrumental in pulling one of my son's down. I would hate to be John Dehlin. But the saints will be tried.
Mormonism past is most definitely disturbing and members just seem to ignore it.
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TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH
The only church where you can become god.
True and living but not good. Evil may be the word I would use.
Book of Mormon is definitely historical and not a product of Joseph Smith's environs.
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Don't let truth and facts hurt your testimony. Remember its not a lie if you believe it...
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how someone talks a lot without actually being able to make a point. It’s as ambiguous and nebulous as saying nothing at all 🙄
I love your podcast and I watch several other lds podcasts. I suggest the over use of "I'm so excited" be cut out of the intro. Choose different ways to welcome guests. Just my suggestion. I don't mean to be rude.
Ashly is aware of her repetitions, thanks!
I am in the midst of my own “faith crisis” (FIMO). I have listened to hundreds of hours both in support and in criticism of the Church. There are several concerns I have with the Church but if I could get three core issues addressed sufficiently I see a possibility of my faith being salvaged. I am open to UA-cam channel/video recommendations. These are the issues. 1) Joseph Smith and polygamy. How was this morally OK? If the same things were done by another/different religion’s leader would that also be ok? If yes why? and if no why does Joseph Smith get a special exception? 2) How do you test if a religion/truth claim is false or incomplete? I know Moroni’s promise to know if something is true. You pray and you can get a confirmation it is true. If nothing happens that does not necessarily mean it is false. Because if this you can’t say the LDS faith does not have the “full truth” if you don’t get a “burning in the bosom”. At the same time you can’t use this method to rule out other religions. According to the promise the spirit only confirm what is true not what is incomplete or false. If all religions have some of the truth and the spirit will manifest when presented with truth how do you know when something does not contain the complete truth? For example if I go to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and listen to lessons on Christ how can I know their truth is incomplete? Or (and I really want to stress the next example) if I go to the Community of Christ, which believes Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, the Book of Mormon is scripture, there is continuing revelation today with prophets, etc. how can I tell that they do not have the FULL truth? Can I take that same method and test it with LDS faith? Could it be possible that the Community of Christ has the 100% complete truth and the LDS faith is the breakaway? If no why? And my last core issue is 3) The “Problem of Evil” (both “Necessary Evil” and “Unnecessary Evil”). In the LDS faith I was taught to believe God is maximally good, maximally all knowing, and maximally all powerful and nothing is impossible for him. I don’t believe the Problem of Evil disproves the existence of God but it may disprove our understanding of the nature/capabilities of that God. Any help in addressing this paradox would be helpful. Thank you for your consideration.
I recommend watching Tad Callister's episode and looking into our book club books.
www.comebackpodcast.org/book-club/
Mormonism with the Murph has some interesting videos on some of these topics.
Hi J, I'd love to talk with you on the phone sometime. Would you be open to that? I can try to answer your questions here, but I'd prefer to speak with you if you're available.
@@Leowinegar Sure, I'm open to talking over the phone.
I'm not sure how we are supposed to exchange info to call without broadcasting it to the internet. I'm ok with talking but not posting my phone or email so the internet can see. I am ok with a response in this thread if getting contact information is complicated. Until then, I'll check out the recommended videos.
Inoculation, I believe that was what BH Roberts called it.
I also am an ex-ex-Mormon....I know a couple more as well...
Would love to hear from you guys! Email ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com
I remember that video with the evangelicals dressed as wives of Joseph Smith. While interesting, it felt insincere and looking to tear down faith rather than build up, which is typical. Something that isn't widely known is that after JS died people were being sealed to him, men and women, because surely JS is going to the celestial kingdom and that practice was eventually stopped. Look at the sealing dates. Was he sealed to more than one while he was living? Yes. Is it what the anti-mo's are saying no? Is there more than we know? Yes.
It's just like the second shooter on the grassy knoll and every other conspiracy regarding large events, we weren't there, we don't know. Those that were there don't know and those that don't know are more vocal about those that do know. The sheriff that was handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswald when he was shot is still alive and has spoken recently. It was fascinating to hear him speak with things that are not widely known or available.
David a bednar and Henry eyring . : these men are not stupid . These men have phds : scientists , great philosophers, mba s , corporate executives: these men are not stupid and they keep the covenants they invite us to keep.
Yea, put your faith in the arm of flesh.
So does many professionals throughout the world. What’s your point? The men who involved in the Enron scandal were also educated men.
How can I find the story of your vision that you mentioned?
Hi Bonnie, thanks for asking. I shared my experience on Saints Unscripted. ua-cam.com/video/zlHop8Yu1uM/v-deo.html
I just don’t believe in God much at this point. I struggled with BY and all of those after him (because my way is better than God’s way and why would God allow His church to have to suffer the consequences of this flawed decision the church members held onto for 126 years? Right?) until 1978. I struggle now with how soft the church has gotten in teaching and directly stating its important truths, with the Church continuing to fund woke ideology in our tithe funded colleges, etc) Those things led me to just think we make up God in our image. I attend church. I attend the Temple, my kid is being baptized soon. I defend the church from attacks all over UA-cam (I’m off social media 100%) mostly because I WANT there to be a God, and I WANT this, the LDS Church to be His messenger platform. But I am heading towards atheism at a rate faster than I’d like to admit. I’m angry. I’m sad. I’m disappointed in myself. I’m frustrated. But every free moment I have is pretty much spent in the uplifting UA-cam channels, LDS smart phone applications, reading positive church history (I’ve read too much of the other now trying to balance it and be honest about it vs spending 5 seconds a year in positive and 11 months in negative like our ex mo friends do but lie about) and reading my scriptures. I want the toothpaste to all fit back into its tube, but the future of that doesn’t look good. My hope is that I just find a bigger tube…
It would be nice to talk with you sometime.
@@Leowinegar I would like that. Thanks, Leo.
@@dcarts5616 I wish I could be there with you. I know what it’s like. I left for many years. There are still church history issues I wish weren’t so. But are. But I also had to mature and do a little bit of growing up in my understanding . The Bible is replete with broken, imperfect people. Jonah was a prophet and literally ran away from his calling, amongst many others. People are messy. Life is messy. It just is. But this I can say, I know is true, there is an influence, a light, a deep and a abiding peace, a true Spirit in living the gospel of Jesus Christ and walking in His footsteps along the covenant path in the church of Jesus Christ. Your conscience is a real force, when not contaminated or influenced by external sources. When you can stand independently, and act independently of the noise clambering for your attention. Jesus is very real.
Read Mormon Chapter 8. It basically says the church and its members are In apostasy. The last half of the chapter is pretty damning on what the church as been doing with its money.
@@lukev483 I don’t think we have the same version of The Book of Mormon. You could say that quite a few members are permissive of whoredoms and iniquities, even that some members are at risk of the gospel being brought from among them, and possibly that some members doubt the prophets who have always been used since the beginning to teach man, and even that the very same members think themselves above the doctrine (puffed up and exhibit stiffneckedness) and choose to ignore or I don’t know, seek daily to destroy the gospel and the faith of its adherents. But the majority of this organization (except those who enable godless satanic wokeism to be preached from professors at BYU as if it were gospel) that spreads the gospel as diligently as possible is not guilty of anything but creating a surplus in the storehouse as they have been directed. Am I missing something, lukev? You left me hanging on our other feed BTW. (Or is UA-cam just hiding your messages from me? It happens and if so I stand corrected.)
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D&c section 4
At 38:41 Leo talks about making a post in the Mormon Stories Podcast Facebook group about how he was supportive of two deep youth interviews, and that many people in the group applauded him, but that it was really people in the group doxxing Leo, and that he was ultimately kicked out of the group for proselytizing.
This doesn’t seem like something that would happen in this group, and I’m curious what the full comment Leo made in the group actually was because if they were saying it was proselytizing, perhaps there were some additional comments that he made that he’s not sharing here in this podcast,
I would love to understand the full Context of that comment to fully understand what Leo is referring to.
It’s true, in the eX or post Mormon world. There are quite a few renegades and people that are making certain comments because they are going through deconstruction and it is a pretty harrowing experience, so there is a wide array of personalities and dis’s affection going on during that process.
And commenting on what Leo said earlier in the podcast about if you’re an atheist or agnostic, just asking heavenly father, whether something is right or not. I don’t know if Leo truly understands what it means to be a agnostic or atheist because in that sense you don’t know or you don’t currently believe there is a “heavenly father”, in which to ask something of , and even if you were an atheist and you asked “heavenly father“ a question and you felt you received an answer, it still isn’t any evidence of a heavenly father, it could be a higher power in the universe responding, or it could be your internal dialogue responding to itself
Prior in the podcast, Leo also mentioned that the X Mormon or post Mormon podcast, are mainly looking at things from a skeptical mindset, and that he had reached out to his former BYU professor, I believe it was Stephen Harper, and that he suggested more faithful approach to the questionable church history material.
I think the real thing that all of us are searching for is unbiased truth, and so I would suggest not making statements about whether a source is faithful or unfaithful, it’s simply a fact of history, and we need to deal with it as such .
The fact that the book of Abraham is not a correct translation of the papyri isn’t dependent upon a faithful source or an unfaithful source. It just is what it is, and it’s up to each one of us to decide for themselves what they’re going to do with that information one interesting fact is that the community of Christ, formerly RLDS, doesn’t even adopt the pearl of great price as canon so they don’t even have to deal with the issue of the book of Abraham.
Overall, I respect Leo for the personal choices he has made, and each person has to chart their own course as they navigate the construction of church history events, however, I do feel there were some comments made that were biased, and I would be very curious to know what it was that ultimately Lead Leo back into active membership, it seems like we’re missing some of the story.
I know he has appeared in Saints Unscripted and David Alexander, you may be able to learn additional info there!
The original Mormons:
Joseph Smith Jr. (December 23, 1805 - June 27, 1844)
a good looking and intelligent young man from a penniless upstate New York family; professional buried treasure hunter.
Oliver H. P. Cowdery (October 3, 1806 - March 3, 1850)
a school teacher who boarded with the Smith family
David Whitmer (January 7, 1805 - January 25, 1888)
farmer; friend of Oliver Cowdery
Martin Harris (May 18, 1783 - July 10, 1875)
prosperous farmer; employer of Joseph Smith Sr.
the Smith family
Joseph Smith Sr. (July 12, 1771 - September 14, 1840)
father of Joseph Smith Jr.
Emma Hale Smith Bidamon (July 10, 1804 - April 30, 1879)
wife of Joseph Smith Jr
Hyrum Smith (February 9, 1800 - June 27, 1844)
brother of Joseph Smith Jr
Samuel Harrison Smith (13 March 1808 - 30 July 1844)
brother of Joseph Smith Jr.
the Whitmer family
Jacob Whitmer (February 2, 1800 - April 21, 1856)
brother of David Whitmer
John Whitmer (August 27, 1802 - July 11, 1878)
brother of David Whitmer
Christian Whitmer (January 18, 1798 - November 27, 1835)
brother of David Whitmer
Peter Whitmer Jr. (September 27, 1809 - September 22, 1836)
brother of David Whitmer
Hiram Page (c. 1800-August 12, 1852)
brother in law of David Whitmer
Apparently after 1826, Joseph Smith Jr realized that his fraudulent treasure hunting career was a failure and he began thinking about a career as a religious leader and false prophet.
In 1829, Smith met poor school teacher Cowdery and they put together a book based on the King James Bible, View of the Hebrews published in 1823 by Ethan Smith (no relation, although he was an acquaintance of Cowdery) and their own imagination. Whitmer and his family joined the conspiracy probably in hope of becoming religious leaders and escaping a hard life of farming. Harris was conned into providing the money.
So basically the foundation of Mormonism was the beauty (Smith) the brains (Cowdery) the money (Harris) and the Whitmers who jumped on the bandwagon. Three very young, 25 year old, men and one middle aged man who paid the bills, along with most of the Smith and Whitmer families, founded Mormonism.
The Book of Mormon went on sale March 26, 1830. The LDS church opened for business in Smith’s home on April 6, 1830.
In 1835 Smith and Cowdery published a sequel to the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants. Since then various other scriptures have been published, such as the Pearl of Great Price, and Mormon prophets and prophecies continue to this day. Mormonism broke up into competing sects after the death of Smith.
Poly Anna View ---> Cynical View ---> Real Life View
The milk should come before the meat.
People who oppose gay marriage and transgender rights will always feel comfortable in the LDS church. My parents had a testimony of the Priesthood Ban just like you guys have a testimony of LGBTQ exclusion. That's vile.
Because it's a CULT
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you "signs and wonders" to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in MATTHEW 24:23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
Negative assumption, and Positive assumption.
Negativity can never add any good.
Even you alone in the intire universe, you will maintain the art of communication, in all matters around you. Father can never be a good father without proper communication to his children. The words (gospel) though the same, has more powerful effect when spoken by the father the same manner it being recieved by our dead ancestors. Joseph Smith was called of God.