It is. They spoke about how the youth are bombarded by social media and convincing arguments against the church. I am 27 years old and I am also experiencing this as well. It is sad how bitter people have become about the church and makes them so critical of our belief. Thank you for sharing this video and making this podcast.
As someone who came back after a very long suffering prodigal trip, I appreciate these types of testimonies. There are many out there just kicking against their own thorns but our pride and their pride can make it harder for all. Unconditional love, non judgemental friendship and espiritual and eternal loyalty to our brothers in sisters going through their own "deserts" can help make things better, with the help of the spirit and everlasting love of an always caring Father In Heaven, we van bring back many of his children or at least try and do our part. Blessings to all.🙏💪🤍
Love the journey! I’ve spoken in two Stake conferences about my journey away from the church for 15 years. Please keep up the work and shine your light bright! People do come back.
Loved this conversation! So many great nuggets to take in. I’ve never heard of this book. So many great pieces of advice to explore. Love the book club idea 💡 to increase faith. Great job Ashly 🙌💕
I am so gald to see in our days this verse in Alma 26:3 been fulfilled with your examples and testify that you are a beautiful instrument in the Hands of our Lord my great sister
I’m reading Rough Stone Rolling for the second time and agree that it is the most faith promoting book I have read … I stand all amazed at how open Joseph was to whatever God was willing to bestow upon him, how much he trusted in others to receive the same witness from the Holy Spirit and share that with the world. In spite of his personal limitations…Joseph never stopped seeking for light and truth and loving his fellow man. I love The Church of Jesus Christ…as a convert of 46 years, I am still awestruck with its Doctrine and feel I am a part of that same story… I have been “restored” to Gospel…or the Gospel has been restored to me…either way it works! Thank you Bro Givens for your beautiful spirit and eloquent words. I love your wisdom … thank you for sharing books and lectures. We are blessed to have you and your sweet wife♥️♥️
I hope you can share with Brother and Sister Givens that thier book, The God Who Weeps, was a major factor in my reactivation to full membership status. The Crucible of Doubt, helped me make sense of many questions about the Gospel. I hope they will know the impact they had on my life, and how thankful I am for thier work.😀
I found this to be a great conversation between the four of you, and especially of course Terryl Givens. I have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and there were several very good points made, which I appreciate very much. Thank you all for your time and effort putting this together !!
I really loved his answer about finding the good and beautiful for your life, however that might look for you individually. That really sang to my heart! One of my very favorite things in this life is to meet new people, see new places, be introduced to new cultures, because there is beauty in every single thing, especially every single person, that God has put on this earth, and you never know where that beauty is just going to reach out and grab your heart and change you! There is no time to be constantly worried about other people's doubts, there are so many beautiful presents that God has placed in your life that are just waiting for you to open them! I much prefer to spend my time on that. Seek the light, and you'll be ok. Loved that!
Love the discussion.... in my experience working with struggling individuals, the gospel topics essays provide mixed results - some omit relevant details...some lead to additional questions. I do agree they are a great place to start, but in my experience, have not ended up being a place that resolves questions for individuals...
My wife (who joined the church at 19, served a mission at 21, and was married in the temple a few years later) read many of the gospel topic essays during the pandemic and came away with the feeling she had been betrayed by the church all along. She now has not attended church for the past 3 years and feels for her the church is no longer true, despite the many previous powerful spiritual experiences she has had. IMy personal feeling is that she approached those essays incorrectly. I put her name on the temple prayer roll every two weeks, and pray and fast for her frequently.
@@stevendorsey4882your wife need to gain a strong testimony of the savior and his tonement and not a superficial one. No church or institution tell you all their history who has time for that. I learned things about American history as a black person but I still believe in the founding of this country. I still can't wrap my mind on how someone can cut the church off due to not knowing all of the churches history.
Thank you all for this discussion. Br. Givens is brilliant ...and I am personally grateful for faithful scholars who can write and discuss on such a profound level with an open mind and humble heart. "Rainbows Over the Rain: The Gospel of Superabundance" is still one of my favorite BYU Devotionals. "The Crucible of Doubt", "The God Who Weeps", "The Christ Who Heals", "Wrestling the Angel", "When Souls Had Wings" are books that have deeply touched my soul and stretched my literacy. I have a lot of reading to do, but my sincere gratitude to Terryl and Fiona Givens for making it both possible and enjoyable with your dedication to continuing education.
Terryl is an English professor, and that informs how he approaches the subject matter for his books. I would recommend the following: The Crucible of Doubt Stretching the Heavens Wrestling the Angel Feeding the Flock People of Paradox
Is there any way I can get the documentation on the quote of Dallin Oaks about our responsibility is to decide how his counsel applies to us in our lives?
Considering darkness of skin. It takes a very good critical thinker to determine that back in the pre-1960 days, most people were what you would call racist. This is something that I have learned. I have upmost respect for Black people and did so at a very young age, even though I was raised until my early teen years in Idaho. I thought I was in heaven when we moved to California and discovered students, even students leaders who were black, brown, Asian, from a wide combination of cultures, races and religions. I very much believe we are in the stages of learning here all things celestial; but it takes time, sometimes for society to be ready. Consider the time it took for the restoration of the Gospel, meaning since Christ's death until that time in 1830 when the full Gospel of Christ was restored. Why so long? Even the apostles at Christ's time thought the resurrection was around the corner. Yet, in God's wisdom he knows when we are ready, as a society, as a religious group and as individuals. More things good await us, as we are ready.
Trust the Answers from the Holy Ghost. No human knows all the facts of the universe and God has to keep his promise to allows us to live by FaITH. HE CONTINUES TO WORK IN EVERYONE'S HEART. TRUST HIM! THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. THE ONLY GOAL OF ALL THOSE ANTI-MORMONS THAT CHOSE TO LIVE IN THE BIG AND SPACIOUS BUILDING IS TO DESTRY FAITH AND LIVES!
pristhood hold the man hood on earth ...manhood is not the gospel... following the world manhood as today satan reings with it ...that is the different specially for sisters ...but if you want to go heaven you must leave this world (manhood ) for jesus.amen.
Givens was 20 years old in 1977. Is he a racist or a coward who sustained racist policy until 1978 when the Priesthood Ban ended? I can't respect anyone who was an adult member of the church before 1978. The racism was inexcusable and LDS leaders have never repented or apologized for 130 years of racist policy.
I was a missionary in Thailand 75-77. My companion and I found four incarcerated men in a Thai jail who were a captive audience to our talking. Two were white, two were black. We discussed the priesthood. I was troubled and prayed for help. In a small hole in the wall bookstore in Bangkok I came across a book Called “The Church and the Negro”. I found in it the principle that people of African decent could attain the highest level of God’s kingdoms without the priesthood. They needed to keep God’s commandments and live a life of service to receive the same blessings as anyone else. I shed tears when it was announced in 1978 that all could hold the priesthood. I personally feel that the previous restrictions were more based on the fallibility of human beings who the Lord had to work with rather than the doctrine of the True Church of God. Joseph Smith conferred the Melchizadek priesthood upon Eliza Able, a black member, and placed him in a leadership position in the church. Eliza knew of the imperfections of the people, but knew the church was true. Elijah Abel was born a slave, joined the church and served 3 mission. He had a strong testimony of the Gospel. In the book, Bound for Caanan(Fictional History), he said" I ain't here for them, son. And I didn't have to come here(Utah). Deep in my soul, I wanted to join with the Saints. Now, I knew the'd be less than I hoped. Ain't we all less than God wants us to be? I've wore disappointment like a frock coat many a cold winter. And sometimes it was a cold winter in the heat of August. But I can't never quit believing. no matter what I see, no matter what happens to me or them I love, I can't quit this faith". "He did not understand why God would permit the Negro people to languish as some were, but he knew sure God was a God of love. It was humans who kept finding new ways to divide themselves, exalt themselves, enslave themselves or others. The Lord had nothing to do with such badness." Elijah went on his third mission when he was in his 70's. The book stated," Yes, Lord, yes, Elijah was walking that heavenly road. He knew there was freedom greater than what man could invent with his money-minting machines. There was freedom that kept you alive and hopeful even while you waited in the pit. There was freedom that promised you not just a glad heaven after a sad life but a right-now knowledge of who you were, which no one could strip away unless you let them. You could rise beyond what anyone did to you and get to know Jesus because it was Jesus whispering your name and wiping your tears and touching your wounds with his sweet balm.” The Gospel gives us the freedom and the strength to endure to the end. The Church organization and members are far from perfect, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect. Don’t allow anger and grudges against the actions of flawed men to cause you to miss out on blessing and peace. Best Regards.
@@kylerobinson7572 I didn't have blessings or peace as a member. Brigham Young was a vicious racist and all of his successors were racists and taught members to discriminate against black people. That's inexcusable and shameful. The LDS church is irredeemable. The Community of Christ is ethical Mormonism. They weren't racists or polygamists.
@@scottballard6176 I don't know anything about souls. I doubt you do either. But people who tolerate racist policy in their organization are either racists or cowards. Givens, Russell Nelson, and the other older leaders are at least cowards. There's no other explanation except stupid, vile racism justified by their religious beliefs.
"life is too short to spend any time reading anything that isn't faith building" I LOVE that!!! ❤️
Agree!
This is very refreshing to hear in contrast with Mormon Stories. Thank you
It is. They spoke about how the youth are bombarded by social media and convincing arguments against the church. I am 27 years old and I am also experiencing this as well. It is sad how bitter people have become about the church and makes them so critical of our belief. Thank you for sharing this video and making this podcast.
As someone who came back after a very long suffering prodigal trip, I appreciate these types of testimonies. There are many out there just kicking against their own thorns but our pride and their pride can make it harder for all. Unconditional love, non judgemental friendship and espiritual and eternal loyalty to our brothers in sisters going through their own "deserts" can help make things better, with the help of the spirit and everlasting love of an always caring Father In Heaven, we van bring back many of his children or at least try and do our part. Blessings to all.🙏💪🤍
Thank you
So glad I found this podcast. With all the other negative podcasts it was refreshing to listen to these young ladies.
Love the journey! I’ve spoken in two Stake conferences about my journey away from the church for 15 years. Please keep up the work and shine your light bright! People do come back.
That is awesome! We would love to hear from you if you are willing to share! Email Ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com
Loved this conversation! So many great nuggets to take in.
I’ve never heard of this book. So many great pieces of advice to explore.
Love the book club idea 💡 to increase faith. Great job Ashly 🙌💕
I am so gald to see in our days this verse in Alma 26:3 been fulfilled with your examples and testify that you are a beautiful instrument in the Hands of our Lord my great sister
Thank you so much!
I’m reading Rough Stone Rolling for the second time and agree that it is the most faith promoting book I have read …
I stand all amazed at how open Joseph was to whatever God was willing to bestow upon him, how much he trusted in others to receive the same witness from the Holy Spirit and share that with the world. In spite of his personal limitations…Joseph never stopped seeking for light and truth and loving his fellow man. I love The Church of Jesus Christ…as a convert of 46 years, I am still awestruck with its Doctrine and feel I am a part of that same story… I have been “restored” to Gospel…or the Gospel has been restored to me…either way it works! Thank you Bro Givens for your beautiful spirit and eloquent words. I love your wisdom … thank you for sharing books and lectures. We are blessed to have you and your sweet wife♥️♥️
Loved his gentleness toward those with questions. You could feel it in every answer.
I hope you can share with Brother and Sister Givens that thier book, The God Who Weeps, was a major factor in my reactivation to full membership status. The Crucible of Doubt, helped me make sense of many questions about the Gospel. I hope they will know the impact they had on my life, and how thankful I am for thier work.😀
Thank you for another wonderfully enlightening podcast - You are doing a great work!
I found this to be a great conversation between the four of you, and especially of course Terryl Givens. I have a strong testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and there were several very good points made, which I appreciate very much. Thank you all for your time and effort putting this together !!
I really loved his answer about finding the good and beautiful for your life, however that might look for you individually. That really sang to my heart! One of my very favorite things in this life is to meet new people, see new places, be introduced to new cultures, because there is beauty in every single thing, especially every single person, that God has put on this earth, and you never know where that beauty is just going to reach out and grab your heart and change you! There is no time to be constantly worried about other people's doubts, there are so many beautiful presents that God has placed in your life that are just waiting for you to open them! I much prefer to spend my time on that. Seek the light, and you'll be ok. Loved that!
Thank you so much for such a great comment!
Nice library Brother Terryl !
I’m binging on your videos. Loving it 😍
Me as well. I find myself listening to the podcasts while walking my dog.
Love the discussion.... in my experience working with struggling individuals, the gospel topics essays provide mixed results - some omit relevant details...some lead to additional questions. I do agree they are a great place to start, but in my experience, have not ended up being a place that resolves questions for individuals...
My wife (who joined the church at 19, served a mission at 21, and was married in the temple a few years later) read many of the gospel topic essays during the pandemic and came away with the feeling she had been betrayed by the church all along. She now has not attended church for the past 3 years and feels for her the church is no longer true, despite the many previous powerful spiritual experiences she has had. IMy personal feeling is that she approached those essays incorrectly. I put her name on the temple prayer roll every two weeks, and pray and fast for her frequently.
What is the correct way to approach to approach them?
@@stevendorsey4882your wife need to gain a strong testimony of the savior and his tonement and not a superficial one. No church or institution tell you all their history who has time for that. I learned things about American history as a black person but I still believe in the founding of this country. I still can't wrap my mind on how someone can cut the church off due to not knowing all of the churches history.
Thank you all for this discussion. Br. Givens is brilliant ...and I am personally grateful for faithful scholars who can write and discuss on such a profound level with an open mind and humble heart. "Rainbows Over the Rain: The Gospel of Superabundance" is still one of my favorite BYU Devotionals. "The Crucible of Doubt", "The God Who Weeps", "The Christ Who Heals", "Wrestling the Angel", "When Souls Had Wings" are books that have deeply touched my soul and stretched my literacy. I have a lot of reading to do, but my sincere gratitude to Terryl and Fiona Givens for making it both possible and enjoyable with your dedication to continuing education.
I can't wait to read his books. I am overwhelmed by the spirit when I hear him speak.
Terryl is an English professor, and that informs how he approaches the subject matter for his books. I would recommend the following:
The Crucible of Doubt
Stretching the Heavens
Wrestling the Angel
Feeding the Flock
People of Paradox
Love it.
Thank you!! I’ll recommend this book at one of my book clubs.
Thank you good advice 9
Here is a book for your book club. The Sin of Certainty by Peter Enns. He went through a faith crisis as a Christian. Really great book.
Thank you so much I will look into it!
Is there any way I can get the documentation on the quote of Dallin Oaks about our responsibility is to decide how his counsel applies to us in our lives?
I have a question...I keep hearing about a reference to "the CTS letter.What is the CTS letter?
Considering darkness of skin. It takes a very good critical thinker to determine that back in the pre-1960 days, most people were what you would call racist. This is something that I have learned. I have upmost respect for Black people and did so at a very young age, even though I was raised until my early teen years in Idaho. I thought I was in heaven when we moved to California and discovered students, even students leaders who were black, brown, Asian, from a wide combination of cultures, races and religions. I very much believe we are in the stages of learning here all things celestial; but it takes time, sometimes for society to be ready. Consider the time it took for the restoration of the Gospel, meaning since Christ's death until that time in 1830 when the full Gospel of Christ was restored. Why so long? Even the apostles at Christ's time thought the resurrection was around the corner. Yet, in God's wisdom he knows when we are ready, as a society, as a religious group and as individuals. More things good await us, as we are ready.
If God doesn't fully know the future like Terryl Givens believes, how do prophets prophesy of future events then?
we united each other became one ..as jesus wants. but the new brach will come out this latter days ...inserted roots
How do we join the Book Club
Yes how??
Hmmm, wait little while longer maybe!
Trust the Answers from the Holy Ghost. No human knows all the facts of the universe and God has to keep his promise to allows us to live by FaITH. HE CONTINUES TO WORK IN EVERYONE'S HEART. TRUST HIM! THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. THE ONLY GOAL OF ALL THOSE ANTI-MORMONS THAT CHOSE TO LIVE IN THE BIG AND SPACIOUS BUILDING IS TO DESTRY FAITH AND LIVES!
if im a menber of the chururch and i hold the hood WORDLY...what is left out there ? nothing left.
Listin to a child's prare it was my ancerd prare
pristhood hold the man hood on earth ...manhood is not the gospel... following the world manhood as today satan reings with it ...that is the different specially for sisters ...but if you want to go heaven you must leave this world (manhood ) for jesus.amen.
Givens was 20 years old in 1977. Is he a racist or a coward who sustained racist policy until 1978 when the Priesthood Ban ended? I can't respect anyone who was an adult member of the church before 1978. The racism was inexcusable and LDS leaders have never repented or apologized for 130 years of racist policy.
I was a missionary in Thailand 75-77. My companion and I found four incarcerated men in a Thai jail who were a captive audience to our talking. Two were white, two were black. We discussed the priesthood. I was troubled and prayed for help. In a small hole in the wall bookstore in Bangkok I came across a book Called “The Church and the Negro”. I found in it the principle that people of African decent could attain the highest level of God’s kingdoms without the priesthood. They needed to keep God’s commandments and live a life of service to receive the same blessings as anyone else. I shed tears when it was announced in 1978 that all could hold the priesthood.
I personally feel that the previous restrictions were more based on the fallibility of human beings who the Lord had to work with rather than the doctrine of the True Church of God.
Joseph Smith conferred the Melchizadek priesthood upon Eliza Able, a black member, and placed him in a leadership position in the church. Eliza knew of the imperfections of the people, but knew the church was true.
Elijah Abel was born a slave, joined the church and served 3 mission. He had a strong testimony of the Gospel. In the book, Bound for Caanan(Fictional History), he said" I ain't here for them, son. And I didn't have to come here(Utah).
Deep in my soul, I wanted to join with the Saints. Now, I knew the'd be less than I hoped. Ain't we all less than God wants us to be? I've wore disappointment like a frock coat many a cold winter. And sometimes it was a cold winter in the heat of August. But I can't never quit believing. no matter what I see, no matter what happens to me or them I love, I can't quit this faith".
"He did not understand why God would permit the Negro people to languish as some were, but he knew sure God was a God of love. It was humans who kept finding new ways to divide themselves, exalt themselves, enslave themselves or others. The Lord had nothing to do with such badness."
Elijah went on his third mission when he was in his 70's. The book stated," Yes, Lord, yes, Elijah was walking that heavenly road. He knew there was freedom greater than what man could invent with his money-minting machines. There was freedom that kept you alive and hopeful even while you waited in the pit. There was freedom that promised you not just a glad heaven after a sad life but a right-now knowledge of who you were, which no one could strip away unless you let them. You could rise beyond what anyone did to you and get to know Jesus because it was Jesus whispering your name and wiping your tears and touching your wounds with his sweet balm.”
The Gospel gives us the freedom and the strength to endure to the end. The Church organization and members are far from perfect, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect.
Don’t allow anger and grudges against the actions of flawed men to cause you to miss out on blessing and peace. Best Regards.
@@kylerobinson7572 I didn't have blessings or peace as a member. Brigham Young was a vicious racist and all of his successors were racists and taught members to discriminate against black people. That's inexcusable and shameful. The LDS church is irredeemable. The Community of Christ is ethical Mormonism. They weren't racists or polygamists.
Well isn't it great there's someone on the internet that can judge someone's soul.
@@scottballard6176 I don't know anything about souls. I doubt you do either. But people who tolerate racist policy in their organization are either racists or cowards. Givens, Russell Nelson, and the other older leaders are at least cowards. There's no other explanation except stupid, vile racism justified by their religious beliefs.
@@nathanbigler you do seem to be a moral authority. Tell me, what have you done to stop evil in our day?