Travel Trailer Problems | Our Dexter Torflex Axle Is Failing! | Rockwood Geo Pro 20BHS
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2021
- Our Rockwood Geo Pro 20BHS, the Birdhouse, is experiencing the dreaded travel trailer problems. The left-hand side of our Dexter Torflex axle has been slowly collapsing this spring.
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In this video, we were excitedly traveling from Fort Worth, Texas to the Rio Grande Del Norte National Monument. We were heading to our CFRV Community Council and couldn't wait to get out into that wide-open country! If you're wondering what this Community Council is all about, you can check it out at / crowdfreerv
We made a planned stop at the Ray and Donna West free RV park in Muleshoe, TX. I've been keeping an eye on my sagging axle this spring. I finally took the opportunity to measure the tire-to-fender gap on the 15th of May. The gap on the right, the normal side, was around five inches. The gap on the left was around three. I was a little horrified to see that by the 31st, after only 300 miles, the gap had shrunk to two inches. It was time to take action!
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I go into a little more depth about the repair in a CFRV University Article.
You can find it here - crowdfreerv.com/axle-part-1/
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Thank you so much for watching this video!! If it was helpful, would you consider giving it a like and subscribing if you haven't already?
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We LOVE to hear from you! Please drop us a comment!
Until next time my friends, stay free.
~ Ben - Авто та транспорт
I have the 2020 FD no slide murphy bed model, any reason why that axle failed, how many miles are on the camper ? Looking forward to your follow up videos.
Hello @billg1527!
My camper is at round 13,000 miles. I don’t think the axle problem is miles.
Here’s my take on the problem. It’s opinion that’s based on some experience:
I don’t think it’s a quality issue. The Dexter Torflex is a proven reliable & quality unit.
I think it’s an engineering issue.
My GVWR is 4455 lb. The axle gross rating is 4000 lb. So at an average 10% tongue weight, the axle will be carrying 4010 lbs. On paper that’s fine. But in the real world, from my experience, things that have no load rating margin are more prone to failure.
But I don’t necessarily thing this is a load issue. I think it’s a leverage issue. Many people are reporting the same problem and they all have a common characteristic - the slide side of their axle is settling lower.
So… I think the leverage of the extended slide is causing the rubber spring in the axle to fatigue and compress over time. Would a heavier axle solve it? That’s a question for the engineers.
I haven’t heard of this happening to non slide units.
Thanks for watching & the question!
For more - crowdfreerv.com/axle-part-1/
@@CrowdFreeRV What was the outside temperature when you first noticed the problem and the outside temperature and conditions when it rapidly changed?
Is the lift kit from the factory tight to factory specifications and in place?
Also looking to purchase the 2022 FD going into production soon.
One reason we chose the FD model was better load balance between driver and passenger side of the trailer with the Dexter single rubber torsion axle.
The bunk model with same side slide-out out puts a great deal of weight on driver side during driving and when stationary with the slide out and stabilizer jacks deployed.
Having an adjustable air bag suspension is far superior than just the rubber torsion flex Axle.
@billg1527 We are looking at purchasing a 2022 FD, all 2021 sold out. Have you checked and monitored your FD’s tire to body height on driver and passenger sides?
When unloaded, have you checked the hitch weight also called tongue weight?
@@icare7151 I first noticed the problem while wintering in North Carolina. We were parked for about three months. The temps were average low 30’s to highs in the 50-70’s. I didn’t start measuring the problem until recently. I noticed the change from 3” to 2” after loading some more gear for the travel season and traveling a few hundred miles.
Are you in the Geo/E pro group on Facebook? There are others reporting this problem and the common theme seems to be the slide side sags.
My hunch is the rubber is slowly compressing due the the leverage factor of the slide being out.
Thoughts?
I called Dextor the other day, gave them my serial number, and had them apply the same specs to a new axle, but a 6,000-lb axle instead of the 3,500-lb axle that comes with our 20BHS Geo Pros. I'm very excited to have a beefier axle and be able to haul a bit more cargo. I did have to get new wheels since the #11 Dexter Torsion Axles are 6x5.5 bolt pattern.
Thank you for keeping us in the know on your experiences with your Geo Pro 20BHS we have been researching which RV to buy for months and your journey has solidified our choice on this RV. Even with the issues you have experienced it has led us to this RV. Update to the frame bolts, the one we recently looked at now has a locking washer, but, the a locking nut on every bolt. The factory has resolved this. However, the tire fender on the slide out is still unresolved. Before we finalize our purchase we have asked the dealer to request a solution from Geo Pro.
fabulous upload Crowd Free RV. I killed that thumbs up on your video. Keep on up the fantastic work.
Thanks! Your kind comment means a lot & helps me to keep going! 😃
Lookin’ sharp Uncle! Hope the repairs go well.
Thanks @EthanAlan92! Sure looking forward to seeing you this summer!
@@CrowdFreeRV same to you. Miss you guys!
I'm hanging onto your every word! I'm picking up my Geo Pro around the first of July. Please do not leave out any details. Thank you for this video it is utmost interesting to find out why this happened.
Thanks for the comment @Cajunnathan! Yes, I’ll keep y’all posted along the way!
I think we may have to figure this one out for ourselves though. I doubt if Dexter will publicly communicate what the problem is. I’ve got a hunch though and I’m going to produce a vid real soon about my new leveling/stabilizing strategy. Stay tuned & Thanks again for the comment!
@@CrowdFreeRV You're a Good Man, Ben! Hang in there!
Look forward to what you find and thanks for sharing. My wife and I are interested in the 2021FD. Also not sure about what product their using underneath the TPO for support my weight when on the roof. Thanks for your videos, we really enjoy them
Hello @Chip E!
I don’t remember the thickness of the sheeting. But I do remember that the roof trusses are very solidly built.
I’m up on my roof before every departure and it’s fine with me. I’m 185.
Thanks for watching & your kind comment!
well i was waiting to see you fix the axle
We have a new Geopro BH20 and have very few miles on it and have this same issue. Rockwood said it's supposed to be like that. Since the sides have different wheel well clearances, we measured from the bottom of the torsion arm to the ground. The distance is about 11-5/8" on both sides.
Hi @Ashley Atkins!
Yes, to get the real story you are correct to measure the torsion arms. But the arm to ground distance will only change if the tire is more compressed. Rather, measure that same point on the end of the torsion bar upward to a point on the frame. As the torsion bar compresses, this is the measurement that changes.
Hope this helps!
@@CrowdFreeRV We called Rockwood and sent photos and talked to engineers and they all said our 3" clearance is not a cause of concern for them. So, I guess we just continue on?
@@ashley5322 yes, that’s what I would do. If the clearance remains unchanged as you put miles on or time goes by your good to go. If it does sag over time, keep the documentation that you addressed it early on while under warranty. And… the Dexter warranty is 10 years. Adventure on!!
@@ashley5322 yes, that’s what I would do. And save your documentation from Rockwood engineering for future warranty purposes.
I have a 2020 Geo Pro QB and want to add a bike rack to the rear axle. Can you tell me what receiver you used and/or give me any info on the installation. You said in the video you had just had it repaired....
Thank you for the practical and succinct information you give in your videos. I loved your GP walk-around video; it helped so much immediately after my purchase.
I have the same trailer. Would you know what the manufacturer’s standard gap size is from the dinette side tire to the fender wall?
I literally just notice this on ours we have a 2021 geo pro bhs. We’re worried we won’t be able to get it fixed before we have to leave
Hi Crowd Free Clan! Just came across your channel. Great content! Was there a part 2 to this axle saga? If not, can you share a verbal summary of the outcome?
We might never know. It looks like their last video was posted over a year ago, and then they just stopped.. :(
If you had a couple hundred pounds of gear stowed on that side of the RV and then added the leverage of the weight in the slide out to that side of the RV, it's a possible explanation of the axle sag on that side.
Just another of the many reasons I'm 'spooked' about slide outs and chose the G19FD without one.
Why not fix it in Fort Worth? So your driving way up tell?
Interesting Coincidence🤔?
Geo/E-Pro Dexter Axle Questions Never Answered By Dexter:
First, I am not suggesting what caused this specific problem nor stating there is a larger issue with the Dexter axles for this application. Dexter is known for quality products.
RVing for over 40 years, the axles and suspension systems I have used in the past have all been either solid or independent with coil, leaf and/or air springs, shock absorbers and water tight, heavy duty traditional wheel bearings etc. I have never used a Dexter torsion axle nor the Dexter EZLube system.
Looking to downsize into a Geo/E-Pro, several months ago I called Dexter with specific questions of their Geo/E-Pro axle. They provided Dexter representative’s phone number who covers Rockwood/Flagstaff area who I then called, left a voice mail, but never heard back from:
Questions I Have For Dexter:
What are the cyclic bending, axial and torsional stresses characteristics, limitations, guidelines, capabilities, safety factors, tolerances, longevity and maintenance of the Geo/E-Pro Dexter torsion axle under static, dynamic and shock loads, under various weather & environment conditions etc under:
1)Heavy Loads?
2)Light Loads?
3)Uneven Driver/Passenger Loads?
4)Rough Roads?
5)Dirt Roads?
6)One Side Axle Deflection Limitations/Tolerances such as going over a rock or log on one side or other uneven side to side suspension travel/surfaces?
7)Permanent Rubber Deflection/Deformation etc?
8)Water, Sand, Dirt, Mud resistance?
9)Safety Inspection and Serviceability of the Rubberized Torsion Suspension System?
10)etc.
It will be interesting what Dexter and Rockwood find that caused this problem and a permanent solution to prevent the same issue from reoccurring in the future. It is extremely dangerous to have any vehicle and/or trailer leaning to one side under motion or even parked.
A vehicle/trailer that is found to be leaning to one side would likely fail a safety inspection check point, thus be required to be fixed on the spot or transported via a flat bed transport carrier to the nearest repair facility to correct the problem before being allow back on the open road.
My background:
I am formally trained in mechanical reinforcement, manufacturing testing/failure analysis engineering;
include design, manufacturing and analysis of advanced material reinforcement, (including for rubber reinforcement), static, dynamic and shock loading, tensile strength, elongation, permanent creep, tension, compression, memory (rebound), cyclic stresses, abrasion, heat and chemical resistance, etc.
Just some thoughts, observations and unanswered questions to Dexter of their axle used on the awesome Geo/E-Pro travel trailers.
Thank you for the great channel and keeping us informed.
Keep safe and many blessings.
Cheers
Hello @I Care!
Wow! Thanks for weighing in on this. You have some extensive experience!
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I would also like to hear answers to your questions coming from Dexter & the Rockwood design team. But… don’t hold your breath waiting for answers as I don’t think they will come.
From my experience even manufacturers of quality products lawyer up and keep information proprietary in order to limit their liability.
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As an example the communication I received from Dexter when they approved my warranty claim was this. (This is my paraphrase, not their words):
“Because we have no control over loading, maintenance, or use of our products, this problem is not our fault. As a gesture of good will we’re providing you with a replacement axle, shipping of the axle, and 1.5 hours of labor)”
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So as you see, they did the right thing while also completely avoiding fault or future liability. Such is this age of litigation which we are in.
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Well my friend, thanks again for your excellent comment!! It’s much appreciated.
@@CrowdFreeRV
Thank you for your response and awesome channel. Great things come from collaboration.🙂
Problems are opportunities for creative thinking and collaborative resolution.
Glad Rockwood and Dexter are replacing the axle. Typically in situations like this the design and engineering teams will in fact collect and analyze the data thoroughly, hopefully taking appropriate actions based on their findings to prevent a reoccurrence.
If possible, you may consider documenting the original and new axle’s manufacturing codes/serial numbers that should be stamped or labeled on each of the axles.
Are they using same axle model number and/or lot number?
If they are using a different model number what is the difference and how will that affect the stability and ride quality; the ability to absorb static, dynamic and shock loads, vibration frequencies and suspension travel?
What Dexter axle model number of your floor plan are they using in current production?
If this is a pattern with other owners of the same floor plan, I am confident Rockwood and Dexter will find a solution with a win/win resolution as necessary.
The are many mechanical theories that I can speculate what caused the initial then rapid sag, but not having the verifiable scientific data to needed to validate a probable cause, would be speculation at best.
However, what we can do is:
1) Calculate the static and extrapolate the dynamic loads of the slide in the “in, transition and out positions, loaded and unloaded, including the total weights of all sitting in the side, cargo stored beneath the dinette plus the weight of the box and slide out system.
Calculating the total deflection forces (stresses) on the entire system in all positions and situations will help determine if the slide is a major factor is causing the sagging.
It appears there are multiple modified cantilever static and dynamic forces and deflections at play. It’s an interesting science with many static and dynamic variables to consider.
2)Collecting Data
As a purest in co-writing & adhering to ASTM and ISO processes over the decades, with the rv level, measuring in the exact same manner each time suggest document:
1)Date, time, temperature, humidity and location of measurement
2)High/Low temperatures the rv was subjected to between measurements
3)Slide In or Out
4)Time slide has been in the “out position” since last measurements
5)Time slide is in the “in position” while stationary since last measurement
6)Time and miles driven while slide is in the “in position” since last measurement
7)Stabilizers up or down
8)How RV is leveled
9)Road conditions, type of roads, speeds traveled on each and miles traveled between measurements, if any
10)Special circumstances such as heavy winds experienced; cross, head or tail winds, submerged in or exposed to fresh or salty water, road salt/deicer/ice melt
11)Weights: Loaded right side, left side, hitch and total weight
12)other
Collecting as much valid data as possible is necessary to quantify and qualify a proper analysis to pinpoint the exact cause that is resulting in the undesired affect, assess risk factors and then design a proper solution based on data collected.
Is this is an isolated case? If yes, a simple axle exchange.
If there are multiple RVs with the same floor plan that are suffering the same fate, solutions may range from a different rubber compound that is not susceptible to a possible heat setting degradation and/or deformation, etc to an entire different axle and suspension system. Rockwood already has an air suspension they use in the Geo/E-Pro toy hauler floor plan.
I prefer axle and suspension systems that one can quickly and easily view the entire suspension & axle system such as traditional springs, shocks, bushings, air bags etc. are preferred, much easier to diagnose, maintain and fix on the fly.
Also, for all RVs with slides, I would always use true 4 corner leveling jacks, fully deployed prior to deploying the slide outs.
Thank you for taking the time to read my long winded thoughts, observations and keeping us all informed of the twists, turns of your adventures.
Enjoy the journey!
Cheers,
KP
Colorado Springs, CO🏔🇺🇸
Could you please provide an update?
At what mileage did you experience the axle failure?
Man...good luck. I have a 19FD on order (e-pro). I know it's part of RVing but I would never expect an axle to take a dump. I hope it's at least a warranty fix. I know the Dexter has a 10 yr warranty but if it's installed barely within it's mechanical limits who the heck is going to pay for the work?...not to mention your trip to the factory and vacation time lost. Either way...I like your channel if that helps soften the blow just a little bit.
@EnuffsEnuff318 thanks for the encouraging comment! It’s much appreciated! If you’d like to get a little more info on this check out - crowdfreerv.com/axle-part-1/
And, yes. The axle will be 100% warranty!
Stay tuned for the new axle vid!
MORryde single axle suspension is a good upgrade for the geo pro.
Anybody know why their last video was posted a year ago and why they have done no more?
No updates in 6 Weeks?
All 20bhs have less clearance on slide side. It’s by design. Having said that, ours has 4” on the slide side, so 2-3” in a bit on the low side.
Do you have anything in the tanks?
Is the camper level? If so, are both sides too low??? If not, how come it’s level but only one side is sagging?
We’ll see how it rides after the axle is replaced.
Thanks for watching & commenting!
I was curious about your statement and so I checked my 20BHS today and i see that the clearance on the slide side is lesser by 50% than the right side. Is this a defect or as you said by design?
@@RafaelGuerreroThe4th I can only speculate if the problem is by design. That’s just guesswork on my part.
What I know with certainty is, I monitored my left side and considered it fine and normal until my fender clearance shrunk to 2 inches and there developed a risk that my tire would begin contacting the fender.
Hope this helps!
@@RafaelGuerreroThe4th This is by design. The slide needs to be a bit lower so there's less space on the side of the slide. I guess they could have "fixed" it cosmetically... but decided to keep 19BH and 20BHS similar on the passenger/right side.
Have you dealt with the Afro yet?
I purchased a 2021 GeoPro used, it had been purchased and traded in for a larger trailer ( so I was told!) the GeoPro still had all the factory stickers and tags and looked bran new. I was told that it was beeing sold as is even though it had only been used once. Well I noticed the Dexter axel has the same problem you are discribing. Rockwood is telling me that I am not the orignal owner and will not replace the axel. DO NOT BUY A FORES RIVER OR ANY OF THEIR BRANDS BEWARE!
So you can’t get it fixed in Texas?
@michael arnold the main deciding factor here was time. My travel blog is what I do for a living and I have reservations in July for some key content creation. By doing the work at the factory, I eliminate the shipping time to Fort Worth. LTL shipping can take a notoriously long time. Going to the axle eliminated all shipping delay.
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As to getting the work done anywhere:
The work itself is simple and takes only an hour or two. Dexter ships a brand new “loaded” axle that’s ready to bolt up and go.
Four bolts, two wire connections and changing the wheels/tires out are all that’s needed. The hardest thing is just the time to get the trailer jacked up & supported.
Thanks for watching & commenting!
Я ничего не понял потому что не знаю англиского языка, но видео понравилось)))
Might be pushing too tall of a tire, for that single axle. I've got twin torflex 3500lb axles in under my Featherlite enclosed snowmobile trailer, that are 30 years old. Other than rust, they work fine, and I'm grinding rust, and coating with cosmoline now.