I found having the main music tracks and a 7.1.2 reverb going to the bed and various feature and solo instruments and mono or stereo fx as objects works well. Splitting the dry and fx to different ends of the room sounds great too. Also the music bed can be held down with a 7.1.2 limiter making a solid platform.
Thanks Michael for your Tutorial.this info you are giving out is so valuable.Yes please do a Video about setup of a Atmos reverb without SpaeLab.Thanks.
Hi Michael, I always come back to your videos after watching manufacturers tutorials and then it clicks in full…thank you. I would like to learn how to use Audio brewers abverb in conjunction with Fiedler audio DA composer…hopefully then I won’t need to pan my reverbs…is that possible? I haven’t bought abverb and tested because I’m not sure it will work, I’m using Fiedler and I’m not a fan of their reverb workflow tbh
Thanks! It depends a bit on the DAW you are using but generally yes, you can use Audio Brewers with the DAC as long as your DAW is multichannel capable.
Hi, great video! If you are monitoring with headphones and in order to listen in binaural mode, shouldn´t the "trim and downmix" option in the renderer plugin be in binaural? Thanks!
Hey Michael, this along with all your other videos is awesome. A question for you though, I notice in all the videos of yours that I’ve watched on reverb you’re putting the reverb as an insert on the Atmos Bus. Let’s say for a particular object I wanted to automate the panning of the reverb in space. Could I use a send to send the audio to an FX track, insert the reverb in the FX track and then route the FX track into the Atmos Bus so it could be its own object? Also, if the reverb is an insert on the Atmos Bed does that mean the bed can only be used for reverb and I can’t then have some audio tracks in the bed and other audio tracks as objects? I hope these questions make sense.
Yes, makes sense. There are different interpretations on how the Atmos bed should be used. Some route everything into the bed that has no automated position. Some avoid the bed completely. My approach is to route ambient sounds into the bed. And in all examples I use that essentially means the spatial reverb only. But there are no strict rules. Whatever works for you workflow is fine.
@@michaelgwagner Thx Michael. I am the very definition of a noob. I’m so new to Dolby Atmos mixing I don’t yet have my own workflow. Someday I will figure out what works for me but for now I’m in exploration mode. Your videos and responses have been very helpful in this exploration.
I'm involved in live events, entertainment and corporate av. How can we implement atmos to a 300 pax audience... or 800 pax, or a stadium? I'm sure it's best for smaller audiences, maybe easy to play background music with a decoder of some sort, but what about live bands?
Thanks for the video. Question: is there a way to accomplish this without needing to program automations and object positions twice everytime? I'm using DearVR Pro plus DearVr Monitor in Logic Pro X.
I have a DearVR version of this video scheduled to go live in three weeks. In DearVR the reverb is position agnostic, only the reflections require automating the object position in DearVR Pro. Automating both simultaneously should be possible but likely depends on what DAW you are using. I have not yet found a good way to do it, but it is on my to-investigate list.
How come this is so extremely complicated/convoluted? In Pro Tools, I just create a Send from the Object Track to a 7.1.2 Reverb Aux, which is routed to the Bed. I enable 'Follow Main Pan' on the Send and the Object and Reverb Panning/Density are linked. Can this not be done similarly in Nuendo?
I should pay more attention the Pro Tools. :) That function does not exist in Nuendo. But there is a workaround. I’ll most likely post a video about that next week.
This is a very interesting way of doing this, I am new to this and use logic, and I have decided to use a delay (as busses) but also objects within the renderer, I am quite curious (if anyone can answer this), what is the difference between changing it to a reverb plugin instead of going through this whole process? :)
So does this mean we can only use certain reverb plugins that support these features? Something like the default Cubase reverb or Convology XT or MIR from VSL wouldn't work then? Another one that comes to mind that SHOULD work is Indoor or Altiverb from Audio Ease. Have you ever worked with either of those?
Ideally you would have an Atmos capable reverb and those are still rare. For most applications you should get away with surround reverbs though. Did not look at the Audio Ease reverbs yet.
@@michaelgwagner Thanks for the reply! I'm trying out ignition now and I really like the workflow. One thing I'm wondering though is how to get various reverbs for a case where I have a project that has two different rooms. Would I use two different busses? I don't think an effect send can be a part of a bed, can it?
How do you set up the Atmos mastering suite (on a separate mac)? I mean if the interface is connected to the mac that has the renderer, then how does the mac with pro tools connect to it so you can actually hear the audio from the renderer? Also, If the bed uses discrete channels wouldn't the (7.1.2) reverb sounds funny when played back on a larger system (9.1.6 for example)?
Working with two systems and the mastering suite is a bit more complex. Dolby has some very good documentation for that. With respect to your second question. Atmos deals with beds just like with objects. In other words, it should upmix it correctly to 9.1.6.
I've done everything you say, but at my end I can't select the Loop track inside Ignition. Like you descibe from 7:47. What is going on? Thanks for some great videos!
@@michaelgwagner Tried millions of times. The "LOOP" does not appear in Input in Input Source no matter what I do. Only Spacelab. This drives me crazy.. 😀
@@michaelgwagner I used all evening yesterday trying figuring it with no luck at all. I have tried everything in various combinations. Not matter what. The Loop object track is being recognized as an Input Source in Ignition. I've looked through anything possible. Please help. :)
Shout out! I need HELP! I can't select the "Loop" object as input inside Source Setup in Ignition. I've treid million times, in different combinations. Can some one help please? Thank you! :)
I figured it out! The Spacelab Beam plugin must be loaded on to the Loop track inserts before you go into Spacelab Ignition Source Setup. It's first mentioned later in the video at 9:00, but should be mentioned from the beginning. :)
Why would you make this very complicated? If you want reverb why not make a 7.1.2 submix bus then send object signal to submix and send signals from submix to main bus? And apply any 7.1.2 reverb plugin in submix bus (like cinematic room reverb)? Just why to make this complicated?
Simply because you can’t do that in an Atmos configuration. There is no equivalent to a “main mix” in Atmos. Everything is rendered at the endpoint device, so you need to separate that out during production. And some of the routing is a bit complicated by the way the Atmos panner works. You cannot tap into the signal between the panner and the renderer. That’s why you need to pan it twice.
@@michaelgwagner but in my case it worked. I used a MUSIC 7.1.2 Bed (patched to Atmos Rendered) then I've a Reverb 7.1.2 Submix bus (send it's signal to MUSIC 7.1.2 Bed). I've panned an object (object is patched to Atmos Renderer), send it's signal to Reverb Submix bus then applied reverb plugin on Submix bus. And done. What's the matter to complicate things like shown in this tutorial, when you can just make a submix bus to do the same?
I am not sure about Fairlight because it has a custom implementation of the renderer, so the routing could be different. But if you are working with the official Dolby Renderer, internal or external, the panning of objects is done within the renderer. If you do it the way you described, your reverb would not take the position of the object into account. Now, depending on the reverb you are using and the purpose of using it this might or might not make a difference. However, if you are aiming to recreate a realistic reverb in a 3d space, you need to also pan what is going into the reverb. In other words, your approach works as long as you are ok with the reverb being object position agnostic.
I love this channel. It's been a huge source of inspiration for years now.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
I found having the main music tracks and a 7.1.2 reverb going to the bed and various feature and solo instruments and mono or stereo fx as objects works well. Splitting the dry and fx to different ends of the room sounds great too. Also the music bed can be held down with a 7.1.2 limiter making a solid platform.
Excellent tips!
Thanks Michael for your Tutorial.this info you are giving out is so valuable.Yes please do a Video about setup of a Atmos reverb without SpaeLab.Thanks.
I’ll probably do more than one because there are different ways to approach this.
Hi Michael, I always come back to your videos after watching manufacturers tutorials and then it clicks in full…thank you. I would like to learn how to use Audio brewers abverb in conjunction with Fiedler audio DA composer…hopefully then I won’t need to pan my reverbs…is that possible? I haven’t bought abverb and tested because I’m not sure it will work, I’m using Fiedler and I’m not a fan of their reverb workflow tbh
Thanks! It depends a bit on the DAW you are using but generally yes, you can use Audio Brewers with the DAC as long as your DAW is multichannel capable.
Hi, great video! If you are monitoring with headphones and in order to listen in binaural mode, shouldn´t the "trim and downmix" option in the renderer plugin be in binaural? Thanks!
I was just monitoring in stereo in this video if I’m not mistaken.
Hey Michael, this along with all your other videos is awesome. A question for you though, I notice in all the videos of yours that I’ve watched on reverb you’re putting the reverb as an insert on the Atmos Bus. Let’s say for a particular object I wanted to automate the panning of the reverb in space. Could I use a send to send the audio to an FX track, insert the reverb in the FX track and then route the FX track into the Atmos Bus so it could be its own object?
Also, if the reverb is an insert on the Atmos Bed does that mean the bed can only be used for reverb and I can’t then have some audio tracks in the bed and other audio tracks as objects?
I hope these questions make sense.
Yes, makes sense. There are different interpretations on how the Atmos bed should be used. Some route everything into the bed that has no automated position. Some avoid the bed completely. My approach is to route ambient sounds into the bed. And in all examples I use that essentially means the spatial reverb only. But there are no strict rules. Whatever works for you workflow is fine.
@@michaelgwagner Thx Michael. I am the very definition of a noob. I’m so new to Dolby Atmos mixing I don’t yet have my own workflow. Someday I will figure out what works for me but for now I’m in exploration mode. Your videos and responses have been very helpful in this exploration.
thanks for this interesting video. is it possible to use two or more instances of this plugin to use different reverb settings?
Yes, you can have multiple instances.
7:30, if'm using the binaural (headphone only mode) in the DAR, would I still choose the 7.1.2 or just the optimized for binaural?
Yes, the bed would always be 7.1.2.
thank you
You’re very welcome!
I'm involved in live events, entertainment and corporate av. How can we implement atmos to a 300 pax audience... or 800 pax, or a stadium? I'm sure it's best for smaller audiences, maybe easy to play background music with a decoder of some sort, but what about live bands?
Not something I have a lot of knowledge about. But Atmos is being used in theater settings so a 300-800 audience should not be an issue.
Thank you but if I'm using Protools, then this is a bit confusing and therefore too selective.
Thanks for the video. Question: is there a way to accomplish this without needing to program automations and object positions twice everytime?
I'm using DearVR Pro plus DearVr Monitor in Logic Pro X.
I have a DearVR version of this video scheduled to go live in three weeks. In DearVR the reverb is position agnostic, only the reflections require automating the object position in DearVR Pro. Automating both simultaneously should be possible but likely depends on what DAW you are using. I have not yet found a good way to do it, but it is on my to-investigate list.
@@michaelgwagner thanks for the reply and i look forward to your future videos 🙂
How come this is so extremely complicated/convoluted?
In Pro Tools, I just create a Send from the Object Track to a 7.1.2 Reverb Aux, which is routed to the Bed.
I enable 'Follow Main Pan' on the Send and the Object and Reverb Panning/Density are linked.
Can this not be done similarly in Nuendo?
I should pay more attention the Pro Tools. :) That function does not exist in Nuendo. But there is a workaround. I’ll most likely post a video about that next week.
I need to correct myself. You can actually do the same thing In Cubase/Nuendo. It is a bit hidden but it is possible. Thanks for the tip!
This is a very interesting way of doing this, I am new to this and use logic, and I have decided to use a delay (as busses) but also objects within the renderer, I am quite curious (if anyone can answer this), what is the difference between changing it to a reverb plugin instead of going through this whole process? :)
Not quite sure if I understand the question. You mean putting the reverb on the object itself?
Österreicher in den USA?
Soll schon vorgekommen sein… 😂
So does this mean we can only use certain reverb plugins that support these features? Something like the default Cubase reverb or Convology XT or MIR from VSL wouldn't work then?
Another one that comes to mind that SHOULD work is Indoor or Altiverb from Audio Ease. Have you ever worked with either of those?
Ideally you would have an Atmos capable reverb and those are still rare. For most applications you should get away with surround reverbs though. Did not look at the Audio Ease reverbs yet.
@@michaelgwagner Thanks for the reply! I'm trying out ignition now and I really like the workflow. One thing I'm wondering though is how to get various reverbs for a case where I have a project that has two different rooms. Would I use two different busses? I don't think an effect send can be a part of a bed, can it?
You would have to create two bed busses and then just sum them together before passing it on to the renderer.
@@michaelgwagner Ah okay. Wonderful! Thanks.
How do you set up the Atmos mastering suite (on a separate mac)? I mean if the interface is connected to the mac that has the renderer, then how does the mac with pro tools connect to it so you can actually hear the audio from the renderer?
Also, If the bed uses discrete channels wouldn't the (7.1.2) reverb sounds funny when played back on a larger system (9.1.6 for example)?
Working with two systems and the mastering suite is a bit more complex. Dolby has some very good documentation for that. With respect to your second question. Atmos deals with beds just like with objects. In other words, it should upmix it correctly to 9.1.6.
I've done everything you say, but at my end I can't select the Loop track inside Ignition. Like you descibe from 7:47. What is going on? Thanks for some great videos!
Thanks! I vaguely remember that I ran into the same issue once but it ended up being something trivial. Double check all the steps.
@@michaelgwagner Tried millions of times. The "LOOP" does not appear in Input in Input Source no matter what I do. Only Spacelab. This drives me crazy.. 😀
@@michaelgwagner I used all evening yesterday trying figuring it with no luck at all. I have tried everything in various combinations. Not matter what. The Loop object track is being recognized as an Input Source in Ignition. I've looked through anything possible. Please help. :)
Do you have a project file you can send me? DM me on Discord.
@@michaelgwagner OK, will try. Thank you very much! :D I will send it when I get home from work. I really appreciate it!
Shout out! I need HELP! I can't select the "Loop" object as input inside Source Setup in Ignition. I've treid million times, in different combinations. Can some one help please? Thank you! :)
I figured it out! The Spacelab Beam plugin must be loaded on to the Loop track inserts before you go into Spacelab Ignition Source Setup. It's first mentioned later in the video at 9:00, but should be mentioned from the beginning. :)
what Daw did you use
Cubase
Why would you make this very complicated? If you want reverb why not make a 7.1.2 submix bus then send object signal to submix and send signals from submix to main bus? And apply any 7.1.2 reverb plugin in submix bus (like cinematic room reverb)? Just why to make this complicated?
Simply because you can’t do that in an Atmos configuration. There is no equivalent to a “main mix” in Atmos. Everything is rendered at the endpoint device, so you need to separate that out during production. And some of the routing is a bit complicated by the way the Atmos panner works. You cannot tap into the signal between the panner and the renderer. That’s why you need to pan it twice.
@@michaelgwagner but in my case it worked. I used a MUSIC 7.1.2 Bed (patched to Atmos Rendered) then I've a Reverb 7.1.2 Submix bus (send it's signal to MUSIC 7.1.2 Bed). I've panned an object (object is patched to Atmos Renderer), send it's signal to Reverb Submix bus then applied reverb plugin on Submix bus. And done. What's the matter to complicate things like shown in this tutorial, when you can just make a submix bus to do the same?
Are you working in DaVinci Resolve Fairlight?
@@michaelgwagner I've worked in both Fairlight and Nuendo but this method works same in both spftwares
I am not sure about Fairlight because it has a custom implementation of the renderer, so the routing could be different. But if you are working with the official Dolby Renderer, internal or external, the panning of objects is done within the renderer. If you do it the way you described, your reverb would not take the position of the object into account. Now, depending on the reverb you are using and the purpose of using it this might or might not make a difference. However, if you are aiming to recreate a realistic reverb in a 3d space, you need to also pan what is going into the reverb. In other words, your approach works as long as you are ok with the reverb being object position agnostic.
starts 3:44
starts 0:00 😂