There is one thing everyone seems to forget. It is nice to see the machine moving fast when not cutting. But they will both do the exact same when they do. The main advantage of servos are torque and precision. They got higher torque than steppers and they got a feedback loop so they can’t make a mistake, whereas stepper can skip steps. Speed only matters when they are in rapid positioning mode before and after cutting.
not a 100% true, it depends on the type of milling bit you are using and the type of spindle you are using. This way you can certainly speed up milling
@@alexschaub3363 only with big end mills. With small-ish flutes the tool is the limiting factor (unless you can do crazy high RPM but then you have to fix cooling when doing something more serious than MDF and then there is the whole point of cost since high rpm tool holders have to be really high quality etc.).
İ had problem couple of times with my CNC router that have stepper motor in Z Axis,when Z Axis step motor miss the steps spindle mill crashing to MDF and that spindle mill create spark,because of that i had fire in my Office,
Wow, this video is so powerful in convincing about the difference. It seemed to take forever for the step motor to finish after the servo stopped moving.
These "comparisons often put $1000 AC servos against $50 steppers. Start with comparable budgets and it's a different story. Both steppers and servos come in a broad range of power, speed and torque. These can be further adjusted with gearing and / or faster balls screws. In terms of the part you get at the end and machining time, there's often little difference if the motors are sized correctly and CAM settings are correct. This decision is usually made by the budget.
Awesome..... except of course in 90% of all cases your spindle isn't going to cut the material fast enough to warrant the extra servo motor speed. The accuracy of the servo's to me is a much more important factor.
It's about $5500 CAD more to upgrade to the servo system. It would be cheaper if you don't need to change your IO board and have enough inputs to tie in your alarm signals for feedback
Since this test only uses the free-running state of the machine (to reposition the milling bit in fact between milling positions) and you should use fixed milling speeds for a specific material and milling bit, the end-result could be negligable when your mill is constantly being used, or am I wrong? I saw some videos where they calculate the proper feeds and speeds for a given bit and material so if the bit is being used 100% of the time, the speed difference can be ignored when the machine isn't using high-speed to move to a different position to start milling elsewhere in the work-piece. You could optimize the pathing in the software to use a minimum of high-speed repositioning instructions, then it shouldn't make a big difference. I could be wrong since I don't have a CNC machine yet, but I'm considering to build one myself using Nema23 steppers (3Nm holding force) for milling wood. And since my budget is limited, I don't think I have much choice (at least to start with) to start using steppers instead of servos.
These servos appear to be suffering from a voltage issue. The gantry is having trouble launching off of the table and through the wall behind them. I suggest switching to solid state rocket boosters for additional torque.
Which one is running faster on the highway, a Jeep (50 k car) or a Ferrari (100 + k) ? Of course is gonna be the Ferrari. By how much ? Well, it depends on the length of the highway; the longer the highhway, the bigger the time difference between the two . Will this speed difference stay the same when actual milling things ? Hardly. Indeed, hole making is one particular application where the time difference stands out. Any other type of operations ? (facing, contouring, pocketing, etc) Not really. Is it worth the upgrade ? It really depends on the type of work and how fast the management is able to take orders in a year; if 2 months are really busy and 10 months are rather "relaxed", it probably wouldn't justify the effort. In reality when milling, the time difference should not be more than 10-15 %, bearing in mind that it is not a fully automated job and setup time is the same for both servo and stepper motors. There are many operations where milling is 20% and work setup is 80% of the time. Too many sometimes.
Notable is the difference between acceleration-deceleration-acceleration. The machine on the left runs at a constant speed, while the machine on the right is highly responsive during stop-acceleration. This enables high-speed movement between points and reduces unnecessary time consumption between the work point and the next work point. Of course, the machine on the left, moving at constant speed, can expect excellent precision.
at the beginning you can see that 2 different gcode machines make different movements so what's the point of comparing it. The Servo first goes straight backwards on one axis and the stepmotor goes diagonally. I have no doubts that the servo is faster, but I'd rather see the same movements and the real difference in time.
Unless the software driving the machine is super smart and knows the acceleration curve - does it really matter? IRL it probably has to be a linear curve to sync the two axis when cutting anyway. No? Or what am I missing?
Does the same apply for Hybrid ( Closed loop) Stepper motors? I run the Leadshine Easy Servo aka Hybrid Stepper on my machine. Very nice side by side comparison.
Why servo systems are so much more expensive? Isn't it just a generic stepper motor with encoder and drivers on it's back? That would be basically only addition of a encoder vs normal system.
I'm pretty sure that servos usually are AC motors with the encoder, not stepper with encoders. If you add an encoder to a stepper you gain a closed loop (hybrid) stepper, with the bonus of precision and closed loop capabilities but without the speed of a servo motor; instead if you pick an AC brushless motor with high speed and torque capabilities and add the encoder + driver you get the high torque, high speed, high efficiency and low noise motor.
@@goldrake821 But most of the "servos" on the market are literally looking like stepper motors with some magic box slapped on it and I'm pretty sure those are not some AC motors.
@@Arek_R. they may look like steppers on the outside but are very different on the inside. The whole point of being capable of holding torque at high speed it's because they use a totally different electrical configuration, since it's fisically impossible to run a stepper over a certain speed. I think a lot of servo are made from DC motor too tho.
acceleration is the main reason. Servo motors can accelerate twice as stepper or hybrid motors. Sometimes even faster without staling. This means machine travels point to point faster and overcomes gantry inertia. In this video we are running both using G0 command
No. The best way to save power is not to over-size motors for the application. E.g. Avoid using a 20hp+ VMC to machine aluminum parts with small tools when 2hp is plenty. Or... don't put 2.2kw servos on an aluminum T-slot woodworking gantry router if 400w is enough.
3D işleme olayında her zaman dur kalk yaşanır ve adımlar kısadır. Buda stepleri avantajlı kılar. Zaten ucun ilerleme hızından yüksek eksen hareketleri pek bir işinize yaramaz
No es necesario un servo motor ni para cortar madera, ni para cortar metal con un corte de plasma. La unica diferencia son las traslaciones que son mas rapidas, pero en terminos de lo que se corta, NO! La exactitud es la misma, si se tiene zeros absoluto de la maquina.
Any one can explain why in my case both Actual Working Speed & Machining Time comes exactly same in both Closed Loop Stepper & Full Servo System. Manual Jog mode Speed Difference can be noticed easily but when the Programme runs through Weihong NK 105 Controller. Both machines gives the same identical speed and time output. Also tried with many internal speed parameters in Weihong controller and Played with pulses also in Servo Driver to overcome this low speed issue in full servo. But no results till yet Any experience or suggestions would be appreciated Thanks
This demo does not perform any work. The tool is normally the speed limiter. With higher speed, there is only an advantage with large transitions like what is demonstrated here. There are few large movements in optimized tool paths.
Servo has speed and torque while stepper mainly has torque but no close-loop feedback on position. Speed really comes down what material you are cutting, type of bit you are using and if your pump can hold down material at a higher speed. Cabinet makers doing many holes would need higher speeds for point to point operation
Servos effectively have infinite resolution. Whereas steppers have an absolute fixed resolution. Measurement of position is another matter, the average servo encoder will give you at least twice the positional resolution of a stepper, be it closed loop or open.
Any feedback controlled motor is a servo. So a stepper motor with rotary encoder and a controller circuit is a servo, but there are better motor types for servos.
Can a servo motor be as strong as a stepper motor of equal size? And also, can any of the 2 different motor-types be modified to run almost competely silent? I need a motor that can lift an object weighing several kilograms at a decent speed, without sounding like a 1980's printer behind a megaphone! 😅 (Imagine it operating in your bedroom at night, by lifting up a TV from the ground at the end of your bedframe in like 5-7 seconds - without waking up your wife! 😂) I know that steppermotors are cheaper than servos in general, but the difference in cost is not really that important in my case.
Use a worm gear with low speed. The snail gear is capable of good torque transmission and does not allow rotation back from the driven wheel. www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffogaskerekcentrum.hu%2F&psig=AOvVaw0bsY6ucqodyCGJ5KoD5L2G&ust=1595573276797000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCLD_2-Lj4uoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAT
Wow they machined the air perfectly, looks identical on both devices!
Instablaster...
Are you blind? Could you not see the servo machine was about twice as fast?
@@Jeremy-iv9bc yeah but you can't necessarily cut that fast.
It sounds better, and that might improve production if you have a room with a handful of them running.
So glad to come across this actual side by side comparison. This definitely helps out in seeing the value of the additional costs for servo.
There is one thing everyone seems to forget. It is nice to see the machine moving fast when not cutting. But they will both do the exact same when they do. The main advantage of servos are torque and precision. They got higher torque than steppers and they got a feedback loop so they can’t make a mistake, whereas stepper can skip steps.
Speed only matters when they are in rapid positioning mode before and after cutting.
There are also closed loop stepper that don't skip steps. I think the main difference is probably torque on faster cuts.
not a 100% true, it depends on the type of milling bit you are using and the type of spindle you are using. This way you can certainly speed up milling
@@alexschaub3363 only with big end mills. With small-ish flutes the tool is the limiting factor (unless you can do crazy high RPM but then you have to fix cooling when doing something more serious than MDF and then there is the whole point of cost since high rpm tool holders have to be really high quality etc.).
İ had problem couple of times with my CNC router that have stepper motor in Z Axis,when Z Axis step motor miss the steps spindle mill crashing to MDF and that spindle mill create spark,because of that i had fire in my Office,
Wow, this video is so powerful in convincing about the difference. It seemed to take forever for the step motor to finish after the servo stopped moving.
Stepper motor is more powerful and quality
@@uniontechmachinery I think you got that backwards.. Reread what he posted..
These "comparisons often put $1000 AC servos against $50 steppers. Start with comparable budgets and it's a different story.
Both steppers and servos come in a broad range of power, speed and torque. These can be further adjusted with gearing and / or faster balls screws.
In terms of the part you get at the end and machining time, there's often little difference if the motors are sized correctly and CAM settings are correct.
This decision is usually made by the budget.
Awesome..... except of course in 90% of all cases your spindle isn't going to cut the material fast enough to warrant the extra servo motor speed.
The accuracy of the servo's to me is a much more important factor.
Good point!
And of course, the price difference between those two exact machine with different electronics is huge. Am I right?
It's about $5500 CAD more to upgrade to the servo system. It would be cheaper if you don't need to change your IO board and have enough inputs to tie in your alarm signals for feedback
Since this test only uses the free-running state of the machine (to reposition the milling bit in fact between milling positions) and you should use fixed milling speeds for a specific material and milling bit, the end-result could be negligable when your mill is constantly being used, or am I wrong? I saw some videos where they calculate the proper feeds and speeds for a given bit and material so if the bit is being used 100% of the time, the speed difference can be ignored when the machine isn't using high-speed to move to a different position to start milling elsewhere in the work-piece. You could optimize the pathing in the software to use a minimum of high-speed repositioning instructions, then it shouldn't make a big difference. I could be wrong since I don't have a CNC machine yet, but I'm considering to build one myself using Nema23 steppers (3Nm holding force) for milling wood. And since my budget is limited, I don't think I have much choice (at least to start with) to start using steppers instead of servos.
These servos appear to be suffering from a voltage issue. The gantry is having trouble launching off of the table and through the wall behind them. I suggest switching to solid state rocket boosters for additional torque.
That sounds really really stepper, but can feel that installation is good. 😀
Which one is running faster on the highway, a Jeep (50 k car) or a Ferrari (100 + k) ? Of course is gonna be the Ferrari. By how much ? Well, it depends on the length of the highway; the longer the highhway, the bigger the time difference between the two . Will this speed difference stay the same when actual milling things ? Hardly. Indeed, hole making is one particular application where the time difference stands out. Any other type of operations ? (facing, contouring, pocketing, etc) Not really. Is it worth the upgrade ? It really depends on the type of work and how fast the management is able to take orders in a year; if 2 months are really busy and 10 months are rather "relaxed", it probably wouldn't justify the effort. In reality when milling, the time difference should not be more than 10-15 %, bearing in mind that it is not a fully automated job and setup time is the same for both servo and stepper motors. There are many operations where milling is 20% and work setup is 80% of the time. Too many sometimes.
Notable is the difference between acceleration-deceleration-acceleration.
The machine on the left runs at a constant speed, while the machine on the right is highly responsive during stop-acceleration.
This enables high-speed movement between points and reduces unnecessary time consumption between the work point and the next work point.
Of course, the machine on the left, moving at constant speed, can expect excellent precision.
at the beginning you can see that 2 different gcode machines make different movements so what's the point of comparing it. The Servo first goes straight backwards on one axis and the stepmotor goes diagonally. I have no doubts that the servo is faster, but I'd rather see the same movements and the real difference in time.
Unless the software driving the machine is super smart and knows the acceleration curve - does it really matter? IRL it probably has to be a linear curve to sync the two axis when cutting anyway. No? Or what am I missing?
This is great...how much sir?
Does the same apply for Hybrid ( Closed loop) Stepper motors? I run the Leadshine Easy Servo aka Hybrid Stepper on my machine. Very nice side by side comparison.
Looking at a machine with those motors. How are they working for you?
@@MattVoda They are excellent. I haven't had a single issue. Get servos if you can afford the upgrade.
Which one is a servo and which one is a stepper motor
What size stepper motors did you use?
Why servo systems are so much more expensive?
Isn't it just a generic stepper motor with encoder and drivers on it's back?
That would be basically only addition of a encoder vs normal system.
Tecnology inside is diferent, not same, but I think is more difficult make a closed loop stepper, but servo is a servo
I'm pretty sure that servos usually are AC motors with the encoder, not stepper with encoders.
If you add an encoder to a stepper you gain a closed loop (hybrid) stepper, with the bonus of precision and closed loop capabilities but without the speed of a servo motor;
instead if you pick an AC brushless motor with high speed and torque capabilities and add the encoder + driver you get the high torque, high speed, high efficiency and low noise motor.
@@goldrake821 But most of the "servos" on the market are literally looking like stepper motors with some magic box slapped on it and I'm pretty sure those are not some AC motors.
@@Arek_R. they may look like steppers on the outside but are very different on the inside.
The whole point of being capable of holding torque at high speed it's because they use a totally different electrical configuration, since it's fisically impossible to run a stepper over a certain speed.
I think a lot of servo are made from DC motor too tho.
Care to explain how the time is one minute apart, when the feedrate and acceleration speed are 50% within each other?
acceleration is the main reason. Servo motors can accelerate twice as stepper or hybrid motors. Sometimes even faster without staling. This means machine travels point to point faster and overcomes gantry inertia. In this video we are running both using G0 command
Nice which stepper motor are u using
By the sound is closed loop, if open loop making that sound it lose steps for shure
What kind of steppers are those? Closed loop or opened loop?
i dont gwet it. which onw is servo and which is stepper motor?
RIght or left one is servo??
On right is servo
Hola. Gracias por compartir. Que marca de servos es ? Que marca de closed loop steper es?
Sorry, no habla spanish 😂
Cool! Which servos are you using?
we are using DMM DY4 here. Yaskawa and Delta are great as well but harder to tune
Is there a big difference in power/electricity consumption, given that steppers are less efficient ?
No. The best way to save power is not to over-size motors for the application. E.g. Avoid using a 20hp+ VMC to machine aluminum parts with small tools when 2hp is plenty.
Or... don't put 2.2kw servos on an aluminum T-slot woodworking gantry router if 400w is enough.
This is servo or hybrid servo?
How much is the servo?
This is an idle move. Which takes up little on average. In real work, the indicators will be different.
i mean, if you're using this to produce parts that you're selling and you're limited by how fast you can pump them out, seems like an easy choice.
What else would you be using it for? 😊
And what about resolution?
Price of servo motor CNC router machine...........
servos are great but 10 times the cost
thank you i m going to purchase CNC ,,,differnce between steper and servo
3D işleme olayında her zaman dur kalk yaşanır ve adımlar kısadır. Buda stepleri avantajlı kılar. Zaten ucun ilerleme hızından yüksek eksen hareketleri pek bir işinize yaramaz
No es necesario un servo motor ni para cortar madera, ni para cortar metal con un corte de plasma. La unica diferencia son las traslaciones que son mas rapidas, pero en terminos de lo que se corta, NO! La exactitud es la misma, si se tiene zeros absoluto de la maquina.
Should I buy stepper motor router or not please help me
Is buying stepper motor is ok for start up
Right side servo
Any one can explain why in my case both Actual Working Speed & Machining Time comes exactly same in both Closed Loop Stepper & Full Servo System.
Manual Jog mode Speed Difference can be noticed easily but when the Programme runs through Weihong NK 105 Controller.
Both machines gives the same identical speed and time output.
Also tried with many internal speed parameters in Weihong controller and Played with pulses also in Servo Driver to overcome this low speed issue in full servo.
But no results till yet
Any experience or suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks
This demo does not perform any work. The tool is normally the speed limiter. With higher speed, there is only an advantage with large transitions like what is demonstrated here. There are few large movements in optimized tool paths.
You get the speed and you lose the resolution .
you can’t mill heavy metal using this speed or the mill end will pop up correct me if i’m wrong
Servo has speed and torque while stepper mainly has torque but no close-loop feedback on position. Speed really comes down what material you are cutting, type of bit you are using and if your pump can hold down material at a higher speed. Cabinet makers doing many holes would need higher speeds for point to point operation
FGP CNC 👍🏻
Servos effectively have infinite resolution. Whereas steppers have an absolute fixed resolution. Measurement of position is another matter, the average servo encoder will give you at least twice the positional resolution of a stepper, be it closed loop or open.
Which one is servo?
The faster
Stepper motors can have encoders.
Closed loop steppers don’t send that info back to controller, they just fault out at the driver when encoder reads a missed step
of course the torque in stepper/speed vs servomotor/speed is not equal, your servos are better.
Both seem overkill for a tattoo artist though
aren't servo motors just stepper motors with an encoder and closed feedback loop? it should be the same result
No they aren't. A completely different internal design, add an encoder to a stepper and run it closed loop and it still isn't a servo.
Any feedback controlled motor is a servo. So a stepper motor with rotary encoder and a controller circuit is a servo, but there are better motor types for servos.
cutting material will be very little difference in speed
Can a servo motor be as strong as a stepper motor of equal size? And also, can any of the 2 different motor-types be modified to run almost competely silent?
I need a motor that can lift an object weighing several kilograms at a decent speed, without sounding like a 1980's printer behind a megaphone! 😅 (Imagine it operating in your bedroom at night, by lifting up a TV from the ground at the end of your bedframe in like 5-7 seconds - without waking up your wife! 😂)
I know that steppermotors are cheaper than servos in general, but the difference in cost is not really that important in my case.
Use a worm gear with low speed. The
snail gear is capable of good torque transmission and does not allow rotation back from the driven wheel.
www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffogaskerekcentrum.hu%2F&psig=AOvVaw0bsY6ucqodyCGJ5KoD5L2G&ust=1595573276797000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCLD_2-Lj4uoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAT
Use mini hidraulic piston, motor only on pump
With the same size a servo is way stronger than a stepper, and good servos are nearly completely silent.
Left is stepper n right Is servo
3phase vs 1phase ditels
best speed in G00 mode.
You got it.
Replace the motors with Teknic Clear Path Step and Direction motors for more production with less vibration and noise.
Good asmr
servo on right side....
step motor overlaps by servo motor... 🤣🤣🤣