Chinese AC Servo - MACH3 Setup (Vs. Stepper Motor)

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 27 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 78

  • @Wrighty
    @Wrighty 2 роки тому +1

    Hi, I wondered if you could possibly help please. I have a problem with my Chinese 6040 CNC router. The problem is on the Z stepper motor. It works fine until it comes to a slow curve in the project. Going straight up and down is working fine, but when it has to do a slow curve in the carving, it gives a loud grumble and continues cutting 1 or 2mm lower than it should be, leaving a step down in the project. I don't know much about the electrics of the CNC, so I have no idea what to do. Thank you for any help or advice you can give. Terry.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому

      Hi. This looks like it is loosing steps. Is the current setting set right? Also during curve motions usually there are 2 or more axis moving in the same time. If you have one power supply for all axis - maybe it exceeds the rated power of the supply? You can try slowing down the feed speed on curves. Or maybe the endmill is to loose in the collet? I had such problem when I made my CNC mill - there was too much load on the spindle, the end mill was bad quality and the end mill was looseing itself which lead to too deep cuts. There are many possibilities.

    • @Wrighty
      @Wrighty 2 роки тому +1

      Thank you so much for your quick reply. I have increased the feed speed, and it's not quite as bad. It is still loosing steps, about 1/4 of a mm at a time, when it gets to the curved part of the carving usually. The 3" of carving it's done before that is perfect. It's a new tapered solid carbide ball nose bit I'm using. I have checked it for tightness and it seem ok. It seems to start to falter roughly at around the same place on the carving every time. I have used the same Gcode before, and it's been fine, so I don't think it's that. I have had a quick check for bad connections, but not found anything suspicious. It's when it does the slow curved parts, it gives a grunt type noise, and that's when it seems to drop a 1/4 mm in the carving. Thank you, really appreciated. Terry.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому

      @@Wrighty It's hard to guess what could be the issue. The thing might be to low amperage on the stepper driver. Maybe too low voltage on power supply. Maybe too high feed rate. Maybe the coupler between the motor and the axis is slipping? Maybe the CNC controller is not keeping up with such feed rate speed? These are just some guesses which got to my mind.

    • @Wrighty
      @Wrighty 2 роки тому

      I do understand this is not going to be easy, and I thank you for the help you've given me, it's really appreciated. I'll take the things you've given me to check, and look into each of them. Thank you so much for your time, take care, Terry.

  • @thomasli3336
    @thomasli3336 Рік тому +1

    Hi GBWM, I have a question. Do you have to do the encoder settings in Mach 3 if you are using servo motors with a closed loop system for high accuracy?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  Рік тому +1

      Hi! The servo driver handles it itself.

  • @dalessi8331
    @dalessi8331 2 роки тому +1

    Very good, great tutorial! I don't know if it's the friend who controls the language, if it is, it could release it to Portuguese. Thank you so much for taking your time and sharing your knowledge!

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому +1

      I will make english subtitles when I catch some spare time (after that you will be able to translate it to your language).

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому +1

      Done :) You should be able to translate the english subtitles to Portuguese.

    • @dalessi8331
      @dalessi8331 2 роки тому

      @@GBWM_CNC Yes I Can. Thanks!

  • @OrangeCounty737
    @OrangeCounty737 3 роки тому +1

    Thank you fort his vids. Do you know how I can switch between direction and torque control? I would like to change the torque using the -+10v input while it’s being controlled using location. Thanks!

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому

      I dont think it is possible to control the torque and position in the same moment.

    • @OrangeCounty737
      @OrangeCounty737 3 роки тому

      @@GBWM_CNC ah bummer. Thanks!

  • @TrPrecisionMachining
    @TrPrecisionMachining 3 роки тому

    very very good video..thanks for your time

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому +2

      Thank you! 😁😁

  • @rickkubbenga5904
    @rickkubbenga5904 Рік тому

    Thanks for the video! How is the holding torque? It has no brake does it?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  Рік тому +1

      I'm glad you like it. I didn't measure the holding torque but I'm now testing these servos on my machine and these seem to be really powerful so probably the torque is right (the manufacturer says its 2.39Nm up to even over 7Nm when overloaded). There is no brake on mine, but there are the same models with a brake if you need one.

    • @rickkubbenga5904
      @rickkubbenga5904 Рік тому

      @GBWM ow really? I was only able to find the one you showed but it was hard to find any info (aliexpress). I'd like to use it for cnc and the brake seems important for it.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  Рік тому +1

      @@rickkubbenga5904 pl.aliexpress.com/item/1945384477.html here for example. Some time ago these with brakes were easier to find I think. Anyway I don't think the brake is needed if you don't have a really big inertia in your mechanics :D

    • @rickkubbenga5904
      @rickkubbenga5904 Рік тому

      @GBWM I can imagine for Z so when it powers down it won't come cashing into the table 😅 but this motor would be to for spindle for me. It might help to to keep it in place when you use it to keep material still and machine with another spindle on the other side

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  Рік тому +1

      @@rickkubbenga5904 this makes sense 😁you can also consider making a counterweight. This is what I will use in my machine for Z

  • @pham7878
    @pham7878 2 роки тому +1

    Hi! Im building cnc milling machine, can i use servo 400w for XYZ axis? Enough strong?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому +1

      Hello! This really depends on what you need - axis force, accelerations, maximum feed rates. I'm thinking of converting an old manual mill to CNC with 400W servos for X/Y and 750W for Z (table).

    • @pham7878
      @pham7878 2 роки тому +1

      @@GBWM_CNC thank you and one more question : can i use EtherCat servo with mach3?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому +1

      @@pham7878 I have no experience with using ethercat protocol with mach3 software. But I've seen This Old Tony mentioning using ethercat servos with mach4 on his build. Maybe you'll find there some information abou that.

    • @pham7878
      @pham7878 2 роки тому

      @@GBWM_CNC many thanks bro! Hope see your new project soon!

  • @sgicorporation7161
    @sgicorporation7161 3 роки тому +1

    Can we use stepper motors in industries in long term, are they accurate everytime?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому +1

      I wouldn't recommend. If you need accuracy I would go for closed loop stepper motors as those have an enconder which allows it to check if there is any positioning error. Although I made a CNC mill using stepper motors and it is working for about 1.5 year now and seems to be accurate enough (if it isn't overloaded which might lead to stalling).

    • @getinsidelife
      @getinsidelife 2 роки тому

      @@GBWM_CNC THIS servo also have encoder and Driver its far more controllable than stepper motor drivers. With servo you just need to spent few days tweaking every setting according to your needs

  • @limitlessbuilds
    @limitlessbuilds 3 роки тому

    I have a question, hopefully you can help answer. I’m looking to build something to move a motorcycle shift linkage forward 1 inch, then return to center as fast as possible. It needs to do this in either direction. I would assume using a lead screw is best, but what motor would be best to use? Every time I try to search for servo motors, all I see is steppers. Maybe the stepper is better?
    Would like the forward and return to be in the 50ms or under range

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому

      Depends how much force (or torque) would you need there. As far as I know servos are more dynamic than stepper motors but usually those are for AC voltage. You want to turn your manual transmission to automatic?

    • @limitlessbuilds
      @limitlessbuilds 3 роки тому

      @@GBWM_CNC it’s to shift a motorbike transmission. Sequential, so it just needs to push the linkage. It’s already manual, but I want push button instead.
      Probably a fair bit of force, maybe 20 pounds?? But that would be the force applied after the ball screw so no idea what the motor would see.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому

      @@limitlessbuildsI guess you would have to get an stepper motor with small inductance. The less inductance the higher speed/ acceleration you get on the motor. Also same goes to the voltage. The higher voltage power supply you have the higer are the maximum speeds the stepper motor can output. Of course in the range that the stepper motor can handle. If you need i'll find the formula for motor torque to axial force on the screw when i get home.

    • @limitlessbuilds
      @limitlessbuilds 3 роки тому +1

      @@GBWM_CNC ok thanks. I’m going to be limited to a 12v vehicle system, which might see 12.7 roughly.
      I have an old electric shifter that I was planning on using, but somehow the actuator no longer works. Trying to pull it apart to see how they did it. It is very small, very fast and quite powerful. It’s old school so it uses micro switches to reverse the directions after pushing to get it back to neutral.
      I appreciate any help man. Really don’t want to spend another $1500 for a new system

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому

      @@limitlessbuilds 12V is a bit low for stepper motors. Maybe you could buy a step-up converter. I saw at a local supplier 12V > 24V converters which could work I think. Actaully you can use 12V on a TB6600 stepper motor driver but I'm not sure what torque and velocity you will be able to get. The lowest I ever used was 19V from a laptop charger which actually worked up to 1000rpm on a nema23 motor but without any load on the shaft. The formula for axial force from a stepper motor on the ballscrew is: F=2*Pi*M/p where: F - axial force [N] pi= 3,14; M - stepper torque [Nm] p= ballscrew pitch [m]. This should be multiplied by 0.9 which should represent the efficiency of a ballscrew (if you use a ballscrew instead of normal lead screw which has a worse efficiency).

  • @maq-Yantek
    @maq-Yantek 2 роки тому

    2:50 HELLO, SORRY FOR BOTHERING AND FOLLOWING YOUR CHANNEL FOR A LONG TIME BUT I AM BUILDING A NEW MACHINE AND NOW I WANTED TO INQUIRE IF EVERYTHING WAS CONNECTED CORRECTLY MY DOUBT IS I HAD TO SEND A SIGNAL TO THE ENABLE SO THAT MY SERVO WOULD WORK BUT I SEE THAT YOU CHANGE IT THE PARAMETER PN003 I THINK IT IS SO THAT I DON'T HAVE TO SEND IT A SIGNAL TO TURN ON BUT AS SOON AS IT TURNS ON IT ALREADY SENDS THE SIGNAL, WHAT I UNDERSTOOD IS CORRECT

  • @BipinBabu-k4c
    @BipinBabu-k4c 11 місяців тому

    Bro
    Thoughts Please..!
    I am really worried about the reliability and consistency of Mach3 when coupled with Industrial Grade AC Servos.!
    What are the real benefits of dedicated CNC Controllers over Mach3? If any?
    (Expensive alternatives like RichAuto,Weihong,Even Masso)
    People say,
    The Kernel Speed Mach3 Offers are insufficient for Servos..!
    And as it is cheap,
    USB Motion Controllers are highly inconsistent as there is a high chance of EMI penetration due to their weak control signal Voltage (5V)
    I need reliable, fast, and consistent performance of servos, and even if not exactly the same I need the somewhat close performance of Industrial CNCs.
    (I have an RNR USB Motion card)
    From your experience and knowledge, Can We ensure consistent and fast performance of MACH3 with servos using that Cheap USB Motion card?
    Even If the Speed is compromised a little bit, the consistency and reliability should nt be compromised..!
    Any thoughts?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  11 місяців тому

      Ac servos are a source of EMI. Rnr boards as you stated arent not perfect when it comes to Emi protection. I had issues with the rnr board and Emi (the source od Emi was a ac motor spindle with vfd 2.2kw). I managed to make it work through a Emi filter, shielded cables, seperated power supply for the computer. So yeah - if
      you need reliability then i'd rather go with a Ethernet controller like axbb-e, mesa linuxcnc or a similar one which are much more resistant to Emi)

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  11 місяців тому

      Also about the speed - using lower kernel speeds for ac servos will make the servos resolution lower maintaining the full speed or lower speed with maintaining the max resolution. All depends on your needs. If I remember correctly - the ac servos usually have a base 10000 pulses per 1 rotation but this can be changed by servo driver parameters

    • @icdjpr
      @icdjpr 11 місяців тому

      ​@@GBWM_CNC
      Speaking about this I've got closed loop steppers 12nm with a 10:1 drive to rack and pinion and we are maxed out at 1200ipm and kurnel. if we upgraded to ac servo drive would we have to go with a higher reduction and a lower torque motor to achieve the same or greater results? Thanks for your time.

  • @The_Unobtainium
    @The_Unobtainium 2 роки тому

    Dzięki za film. Użyłeś już może te serwa w jakimś projekcie? Jak się sprawują? Masz o nich jakiś wątek na jakimś forum, co by można było poczytać? Pozdrawiam!:)

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому

      Na ten moment serwo leży w szafie od tamtego czasu ale kupiłem frezarkę narzędziową i możliwe, że to serwo będzie za niedługo odpowiedzialne za ruch pionowy stołu 😁 i na pewno o tym zrobię film jeżeli do tego dojdzie. Na forach żadnych wątków na razie nie poruszałem w tym temacie. Pozdrawiam 😎

    • @pawel102
      @pawel102 10 місяців тому

      ​@@GBWM_CNC cześć, zabieram się do przeróbki zx7045 i wlaśnie zastanawiam się nad napędęm do osi. Zastanawiam się czy pójść w 3x nema 34 12nm czy doplacic i zalożyć takie serva jak tu testujesz. Zauważyłem tylko ze serva przy tej samej wielkości co krokowe mają w opisie sporo mniej nm i trochę zgłupiałem. Co byś polecał?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  10 місяців тому +1

      ​@@pawel102 jak to zwykle bywa - to zależy. Musisz wziąć pod uwagę, że krokowce też potrzebują zasilacz. Takie 12nm już potrzebują dosyć spory zasilacz, żeby mogły się kręcić na sensownych obrotach bo im większe napięcie zasilania tym wyższe obroty a takie 12nm to już by musiały mieć z 80V zasilania (tak orientacyjnie, do weryfikacji). Serwa ostatnio w Chinach potaniały więc warto porównać, czy krokowiec z driverem i zasilaczem nie wyjdzie drożej niż serwo, które już ma zamkniętą pętlę pozycjonowania. A jak chodzi o serwa, to chwilowo można je obciążyć nawet 2-3 krotnie i wtedy takie serwo 750W wyciśnie jakieś 7,5Nm (chwilowo) a te 2,4Nm to jest taki moment nominalny. Trzeba wziąć pod uwagę też to, że serwo się kręci do 3000 RPM, a taki krokowiec 12Nm to myślę, że do jakichś 600-1000RPM (zależnie od zasilania) i potem już moment drastycznie będzie spadać powyżej tego. I tutaj przychodzą przekładnie - dasz na serwo 1:2 przełożenie to będziesz mieć 1500RPM ale już moment nominalny ~5Nm przeciążalne do nawet 15Nm chwilowo. Zaś żeby na krokowcu mieć 3000RPM to przekładnia 3:1 i masz już 4Nm z tych początkowych 12Nm i tutaj raczej na żadną chwilową przeciążalność bym nie liczył. Wszystko zależy jakiej prędkości potrzebujesz i dokładności a fizyka fizyką - jaką mocą zasilisz urządzenie to takie parametry dostaniesz na wyjściu zależnie od sprawności urządzenia. To tak w skrócie :)

    • @pawel102
      @pawel102 6 місяців тому

      @@GBWM_CNC Cześć, udało mi się dość tanio kupić 3x nema 34 12nm ze sterownikami i z zasilaczami 70V więc narazie mam to wstawione w 3 osiach. Mam jednak pytanie co do mikrokroku na 1mm. Tu masz ustawione dla ac serva 100krokków co daje 0.01mm na krok. Da się ustawić więcej? nie jest to za mało żeby maszyna chodziła płynnie? Pytam bo nie mam żadnego doświadczenia :), a sam mam ustawione 320 kroków na 1mm. Zastanawiam się jednak nad zmianą na ac serva, nema34 niby działają dobrze ale co jakiś czas jest błąd gubienia kroku i trzeba wszystko resetować. Wydaje mi się, że mój zestaw to podróba podróby podróby :)

  • @zaricmicaizknica
    @zaricmicaizknica 8 місяців тому

    Hello. I have seen this video. I want to make some rebuilt of milling machine. Can you tell me which hardware have you used for connection between PC and servo drive? Thanks!

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  8 місяців тому +1

      I've used some CNC controllers - for now I prefer the AXBB-E from CNCDrive.

    • @zaricmicaizknica
      @zaricmicaizknica 8 місяців тому +1

      @@GBWM_CNC Also if i see correctly the are single phase motor. Not three phase. How do they behave loaded?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  8 місяців тому

      @@zaricmicaizknicaThe servodriver is being supplied by one phase but it converts it to 3 phases just like a vfd would do.

    • @zaricmicaizknica
      @zaricmicaizknica 8 місяців тому +1

      @@GBWM_CNC sorry for being boring. Just planning to male one retrofit on 3 axis milling machine and I need to decide if I will use NEMA steppers or these servo drives.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  8 місяців тому

      @@zaricmicaizknica no worries! :)

  • @hienphan3277
    @hienphan3277 6 місяців тому

    Can you share with me the parameters to calibrate the mach3?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  6 місяців тому

      what exactly do you need? the parameters are shown in the video

  • @mrmakinist
    @mrmakinist 2 роки тому

    Where did you buy the motors from. Do you have a link address?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому +1

      Type in 80st-m02430 on aliexpress. There are many sellers - i bought mine from MASTER JIANG 3SMT Store.

  • @НиколаЙКотков-д8м
    @НиколаЙКотков-д8м 2 роки тому +1

    И где настройки? видел только подключение. Где нагрузка, ведь без нее ни как.

  • @pocovolvedor
    @pocovolvedor 6 місяців тому

    Tell me about the mate... Were are you from?

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  6 місяців тому +1

      Poland over here! :) Thanks to South America!

    • @pocovolvedor
      @pocovolvedor 6 місяців тому

      I'm from Argentina. Glad to see our mate so far away. I'm retrofitting a biesse 342 with new 2kw servos. Be careful with the servo encoders. They are shock sensitive.

  • @basitali2402
    @basitali2402 2 роки тому

    HMI Ka program kar k btain plz

  • @basitali2402
    @basitali2402 2 роки тому

    Brother HMI Ka program Sikhain

  • @chronokoks
    @chronokoks 3 роки тому

    ?? That motor does not have 10000 pulses per rotation encoder. 2500 actually.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому

      You're right actually. This command I was describing is about an electronic gear ratio. Not sure how exactly it works, but seems to work.

    • @AdaptivePhenix
      @AdaptivePhenix 3 роки тому +1

      Incremental encoders output 2 streams of pulses, Channel A and Channel B. These A & B pulse streams are 90 degrees out-of-phase to indicate direction of rotation.
      This provides 4 different states: 0-0, 0-1, 1-0, 1-1
      Quadrature decoding derives 4X resolution from this. Therefore, a 2,500 line (pulse) encoder produces 10,000 counts.
      This should be displayed as counts/rev instead of pulses/rev.

  • @INWondeR
    @INWondeR 3 роки тому

    Without a load, that test i pretty meaningless... You need to set all the parameters in the servo drive, gains and such, in order to get the motor to function properly. Only with a load can you do a test like that. And believe me, with a load, you want it bolted down in order to try any of those acc settings. On any CNC you don't want acc settings that high though.

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  3 роки тому

      I agree. Anyway this video shows how quiet the AC servos are compared to stepper motors. I was using accelrations on my CNC like about 900mm/s^2 on nema23 stepper motors and it worked pretty well so I guess those acc's would be kind of insane in real use and probably not even possible with load. Anyway I was wondering if the motor will stall like the stepper motor does even without load 😁

    • @INWondeR
      @INWondeR 3 роки тому

      @@GBWM_CNC Servos run quiet because they are essential a 3 phase brushless motor. They do not stall, again because they work just like a 3 phase electric motor. :)
      Funny to see how much it jumps at high acc settings. :P

  • @basitali2402
    @basitali2402 2 роки тому

    plz Bro HMI plZ Plz

    • @GBWM_CNC
      @GBWM_CNC  2 роки тому

      What kind of HMI? You mean the software I use to test it? It is mach3