The Boredom of Trafalgar
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Claim your SPECIAL OFFER for MagellanTV here: try.magellantv...
And when you begin your free trial, you can watch "Trafalgar: The Greatest Naval Battle in History" right away, ad free! I think you'll enjoy it and it will help add the necessary context to this video. Find it here: www.magellantv...
~~Video Description~~
The Battle of Trafalgar, like every other naval battle during the Age of Sail, is always portrayed for its excitement, heroism, and terror. But despite how incredibly important it is, there is another element of naval warfare and life at sea overall which is very rarely shown in our media...the sheer and utter boredom leading up to it all!
~~Sources & Further Reading On This Topic~~
Trafalgar: The Nelson Touch: amzn.to/3XO2XX8
Voices from the Battle of Trafalgar: amzn.to/3XH0HAR
You can read the full account by John Reece Pemberton, and many other primary sources besides for free, at www.nativeoak....
~~Other Links & Contact Info~~
You can directly support my work by becoming a Patron & Officer of this channel:
` / brandonf
If you'd like to support this channel without spending any money, you can watch my content early and get access to exclusive content at Recast.tv!
` the.recast.app...
Find a free digital library, shop for merchandise, and learn more about this channel's charity work at: ` www.nativeoak....
Or, another great way to support my work is by booking me on Cameo! 50% of all these proceeds also go to charity:
` www.cameo.com/...
And of course you can follow me on Facebook and Instagram!
` / thenativeoak
` / brandonfisichella
~~Timestamps~~
Makes you realise why Sailors would be so rowdy in port, after all that boredom a night out in the port is the best thing that has happened in months.
Still true if sailors in modern Navy’s today 😅
Or why we manage to make shops shut down 'cause they no longer have anything else to sell, especially alcohol.
Soldiers are rowdy too, they just never frequently made port calls like sailors did. It comes from them finally being able to let off some steam after months of strict discipline.
@@kingjoe3rd soldiers also have tons of time of boredom as well
My Da, who served in Merchant Marine, mostly Pacific, S.Atlantic, some Med., I asked, you been so many places, so many cultures, you must have learned so much. He said he never got more than 3 streets from the pier. That's where all the bars/girls are. That's the culture.
Lord Nelson after the 6th hour of waiting, "Never mind the maneuvers and go straight at them."
"Sir, the wind has changed to-"
"OH FOR THE THE LOVE OF GOD JUST GET TO THEM PLEASE"
Me in Empire total war Darth mod naval battles. 😂😂 Ain't nobody got time for maneuvers, no captain can do much wrong by placing his ship alongside that of the enemy.
@@Cdre_Satori Especially if you outclass the first enemy ship in the line
@@scottanos9981 especially if you rush for naval tech and outclass every ship the enemy has. Always nice when you have 10 second rates agaisnt a feet of brigs, sloops, and indiamen trade ships.
@@Charles37400 just spam rocket ships and set everything on fire
A movie that actually is all about the boredom of wating for combat is Jarhead. They spent months waiting to cross the border into Iraq and when the war starts it ends in 3 days before they even get a chance to do something. Brilliant.
Big facts
God I hated that movie. I was going in blind and hoping for a staple "war movie", and well... let's just say that the feeling of boredom and frustration translated well.
I remember someone rendered an image to look like a call of duty game, saying 'most realistic depiction of war in a game' it was just an image of a soldier sitting on sandbags or something smoking with a caption 'you can taste the boredom and burning shit, it really takes you back.' Lol
@@jhnshep Lol check out The Onion's Hyperealistic war videogame.
@@jhnshep It was a "news report" from The Onion. It's on their UA-cam channel
A movie that portrays Naval Boredom wonderfully to me is Das Boot. It is also one of the best war movies, in my opinion, especially when it comes to both naval warfare and the Kriegsmarine.
I'd recommend the book too....the 6 week storm really does feel like it goes on forever.
Especially the 5 hour version. I can really recommend it
Yeah!, the movie puts special attention to showcase the amount boredom in these vessels , totally changing the perception one has of naval battles.
Brandon, you should have a look at the hilarity of the seemingly endless wait between a Spanish squadron, an English squadron, and an ever increasing Dutch fleet as a prelude to the battle of the Downs (1639).
The Dutch and Spanish waiting for the other to leave the English-controlled Downs first, the English sitting on the side, eyeing both woth suspicion, knowing full well they could only sit and wait it out themselves, too.
At onw point, the Spanish even made an excuse to the English, saying their masts were damaged and thus prevented them from leaving, just in an attempt to make something up, waiting for the Dutch to leave.
Hearing of the given reason, however, the Dutch Admiral (Maarten Harpertsz. Tromp) sent a message to the English middlemen; "If it is masts they need, I will happily supply them." Just to get that Spanish squadron out of English national waters. In an attempt to preserve English neutrality.
This wait wasn't one of hours, but of weeks. (Depending on where you start counting, from either August 27th (Spanish fleet entering the English channel), September 30th (Tromp & De With returned from their re-supplying, and concluded the Spanish were still anchored at the Downs, only to anchor all around the Spanish fleet, waiting them out.), All the way until October 21st, when the battle began.
The boredom must have been unimaginable for most of us nowadays.
Damn. That is effing hilarious. I am honestly surprised nobody snapped and tried to start a mutiny...
I came across a great looking book on the Battle of the Downs in Amsterdam which was oddly enough written in Dutch, of which they speak a lot of over there. Unfortunately I don''t.
24:38 You know you have seen Master and Commander WAY too many times when you can actually distinctly recognize Pullings and Calamy's voices in the midst of the battle sounds.
No such things as too many times!
@@BrandonFI just watched it again tonight only to come across your video. Guess I’m not sleeping tonight
Apple TV has put Master & Commander on it’s streaming list. Nice to know I can dial it in 7/365, what a world, what a world!
hornblower is extremely underrated, even moreso then master and commander.
I remember particularly its depiction of the challanges of command, both ad the commander and commandee being extremely compelling.
"Hurry up and wait!" There's no better phrase that describes military life, even in peace time. I'm a US Marine, and I recently came back from a deployment with the 13th MEU, and everything that you said sounds exactly the same, minus the combat. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on who you asked, we didn't get to fight anyone. The boredom is real, even with technology. So much so that crazy stuff starts to happen, especially if you're ship taxed for night shift.
Being ship taxed means that you basically get borrowed for a period of time from your regular job to do whatever job needs to be done in order to run the ship, like becoming a barber, taking care of the trash, or serving at the mess deck (worst job by far, especially if you end up doing deep sink). If you're night shift, your mind starts to wander, you feel tired most of the time, and you kind of feel like you're going mad. Then you start doing random stuff either so that time can go faster or because you were going crazy. One weird experience I had was I once was mopping the deck of the chow hall at night, probably around 2:00am, and was so tired that I saw a dirty chair and I mopped it. I. Mopped. A. Chair. I still don't know what got over me in order for me to do that.
Since I was in a carrier, the ship had a huge amount of people, that made the gym almost always full. The only time it was free was between 2:00am and 3:00am, but no one was crazy enough to work out at that time. A lot of people were working out, since time was abundant for a lot of people, so whenever the gym was full, they would limit everyone who was not a high enough rank to an hour session, which was not uncommon because a lot of people had the time for it. Sometimes you'd had to wait an hour for your turn to get in the gym, but that didn't guarantee that the weights were available. Yet for the most part a lot of people, including me, didn't mind too much the wait, because, for those who didn't have an MOS that required them to work while on ship, or had an MOS that was a task based work, then you weren't going anywhere.
Another thing the contributed to a boring life was chow. You could expect waiting 45 min on a line, especially if the grunts were on the ship. We had to wait a lot for everything, and when we did have training, or field ops you would sometimes get anxious, and irritated with all the movements that were happening, the constant changes on the plans, and China just being annoying, that at the end you'd just want the whole thing to be over. In fact, during the whole deployment nothing really big happened, outside of the routine events, until at the very end, right as we were coming back home somewhere near Hawaii. Guam got hit by a hurricane and we were told that we would be going back in order to help with the relief. Because of that the Captain ordered for the steak and lobster to be cooked for dinner, a tradition we have when a ship gets a mission, but the crew wasn't exactly thrilled. I'm pretty sure everyone would have loved to had helped out with the relief if it had happened earlier, but after seven months of being on the sea you can understand why they didn't like the idea. Especially since a bunch of them are about to have their contracts expire and were ready to go back into the civilian world. But a day or two later from that, the Captain received orders to go back to California, because Guam already had enough help, and when the word was passed, everyone rejoiced. No exaggeration. People were shouting all over the ship because we were finally going back home. I remember I was at the Comm office and me and my NCOs were all shouting. I can't imagine how the berthing was with all those Marines hearing the news.
During those months the only respite we got was port, and the internet, if it worked. Also, Sundays. Most of the time, the higher ups would leave everyone be on these days and on holidays, unless you were a messmen, then you were screwed. The food never stops. As a side note, those cooks deserve a month worth of not doing anything. I know because I worked with them as a messman. Cooks and messmen worked around 12 to 16 hours per day, usually 14, however Marine messmen worked for a month, sailors worked for three months, but cooks worked for the whole deployment, so you can see what I mean with giving them free time.
What I can't imagine was the MEU that went before us because those guys went during the COVID pandemic, which meant that all the ports that were near them were closed so they were at sea for a total of six months without landing. They also didn't have internet. That must've been horrible.
This is a secondhand story, and soldiers are prone to embellishment, so take it as you will.
A buddy of mine served in the Army and was stationed in Afghanistan. He still talks about the boredom. As a sergeant, though, his primary concern was his boys. Well, apparently, one day, the CO of the FOB was being a real bastard, so the squad decided to drink their illicit hooch and my buddy got in an APC and ran over the CO's car.
"Sure, I got busted down to private and spent a month in the brig, but at least it broke up the boredom on base for a few days!"
I'd believe it.
The first line of your comment earned a thumbs-up.
I really hope it happened!
Makes you wonder how pirates must have felt, as you imagine them just capturing a ship easily and quickly and then going back into port. Whereas in reality they could be out for weeks and months. Just to find one ship and chase that ship for up to a few days. No wonder the crews would often get into fights and power struggles emerge. As I said in another comment you see why they were so rowdy in Port as well, first time doing something different in months and with lots of money to have as much fun as possible.
Yeah, and there might not be next time, anything can happen at sea, so that explains some of the rowdiness too.
Same with whaling, just a lot of waiting around and scanning the water.
Probably as you said, but typically pirates operated along what we'd call today well-established shipping lanes. Prevailing winds and tides would dictate what routes ships would take back in those days so if a pirate was operating in the Carribean or along the North American coast or in other parts of the world he probably didn't have to wait too long for something tasty to come along.
Mind you, it might not have been gold or silver in that ship's cargo, it could have been something fairly mundane. Then comes the problem of "fencing" it.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Most pirates didn't attack shipping lanes, they would weight in inlets and spring out from behind an outcrop and give chase (because then they would be closer to the ship they wanted to capture making the chase shorter, most pirates were often in Sloops which are single masted and not big) and you need to remember shipping lanes aren't like roads with rush hour traffic, back then in the late 17th and early 18th century they were very wide and intermittent. You also had the time getting there and back. Also tides do not dictate where you go unless close to the coast which are not shipping lanes. Batholomew Roberts had huge periods of dry spells and he captured more vessels than any other pirate in the golden age. William Kidd had a disastrous last multi year voyage and he had a purpose built pirate ship. I could go on, but I'd just say look at any biography of a pirate and you'll see long periods with no prizes. It seems you are interested in this period so I'd recommend a youtube channel called Gold and Gunpowder.
@@Alex-cw3rz Not going to dispute what you said, obviously there's no hard and fast rules here. But the fact remains they had to go where the targets were likely to be and ships did follow certain pathways, not formally established pathways and shipping lanes as we know them today but they did exist for the reasons I mentioned. And I won't dispute there were dry spells, kind of like fishing when they just won't bite or hunting when the game's gone out of the woods.
As far as small craft darting out from bays and inlets to pounce on a good target that was certainly practiced along the New Jersey coast by Patriot privateers during the Revolution. South Jersey was definately a hot-spot for those activities. Most likely other coastal areas were as well. An interesting story in it's own right and one that's not well known today.
8:04 Hornblower and the Hotspur makes a great effort to explain the boredom in detail abeit from the Commanders perspective.
I just finished reading the book "Trafalgar" by Nicholas Best. It is the best book I have read about the battle and the events leading up to it. It goes into a lot of detail about the preparation for the battle, even to what the officers and men wore or didn't wear to prevent infection in case they were wounded in battle. I highly recommend the book.
“That Hamilton Woman”, the film from with that Nelson signal scene was from, is about Emma, Lady Hamilton, Nelson’s mistress. She grew from poverty in Wales into working in London first as a housemaid and then a popular singer, dancer, painter’s model, living statue (baring virtually all), sleeping with Aristocrats, actually marrying Lord Hamilton, ambassador to Naples, having a passionate affair with Lord Nelson, bearing his child, and even being close friends with Marie Antoinette’s favorite sister, Maria Carolina, Queen of Naples and Sicily. Then, by the end of her life, she was penniless and friendless. She has quite a life story.
A war movie I've seen gets this right is the WW2 film Come and See, exceptionally accurate movie, and the scariest non horror movie ever produced in my opinion. It's does not portray the element of boredom per se, but it is the lack of action to be expected from a war movie, while it build such incredible tension. *spoilers* the main character even misses the only big battle in the movie and just witnesses the aftermath, which for many soldier is their experience of war.
Come and see is actually not that accurate lol. It's essentially a horror film. Sure, all of that stuff happened on the Eastern front, but they were isolated incidents. The point of the film was to show the collective experience of the German invasion via the perspective of a single male of fighting age. It was heavily dramatized.
@@WillyOrca firstly it was not isolated this happened to 628 villages in Byelorussia. I'm not sure you've watched the film seen as the main character is a boy not a man of fighting age and he's in a partisan force not the army. The story is actually based off of what Ales Adamovich one of the writers experienced as a 15 year old partisan in Byelorussia in 1943, so the events are incredibly accurate due to first hand experience. The story itself is not a biopic, but the major events are things he saw and happened to others he knew.
Well, Master and Commander do address this game of waiting and long, drawn out chase. The second chase was all day long, and as Lucky Jack tells Pullings, it was a matter of hours, so the subterfuge of the decoy to go around it... Through the night and many hours into the morning. The Quartermaster said it himself, it took like 150 nautical miles(and the Surprise did 12-14 knots in gale winds with all sails). So, we are talking that the fast frigate took like 12 hours to get behind, within sight of the lookout (so, 14-17 miles away). And then the chase was days long. After the mast incident, they also imply that, when they were luring the Acheron in disguise, it took hours for the privateer to close in, and the men were spending their hours prepared next to their guns, in silence and under the main deck, since they were lying in ambush. And then, at the very end, Lucky Jack ordered beating to quarters with the Acheron barely visible on the horizon, which was also sailing away from them. So, in perfect conditions and with Acheron static, it would have been a 12-15 hour chase, at the very least...
Yeah. That 2-hour guard duty in a foxhole (where you have to stay almost completelly still) that extends into a 3-hour guard duty really has you hallucinating to keep you entertained. Those forest shadows almost got me,really!
One scene that was great was the trick they pulled the the lights. The fact they would have them lit at all times even in wartime and use them to trick enemies is mind boggling. The use of false colours and the fact that just before engaging they would make sure to change them and fly their true colours. I mean, where do you think we got the expression from?
The whole drama leading up to, and culminating in, the battle of Trafalgar is an epic story. Starting from the long, boring blockade to the Allied escape into the open ocean. The long, daring chase with frigates scouting and ships pushing themselves to their limits, not just to catch up but to ensure a favorable position... I would pay ridiculous amounts of money for a high-quality movie about the tale.
I servered in the german Army, but never deployed overseas. Yet I have some waiting stories from my training and some from deployments of comerades.
My Stories:
1. When you go to the rifle range for the first time, you are very exited and kinda anxious, as you have only one or two days to qualify on your rifle which you have to do in order to pass basic training. You get handed out your ammunition and then nothing happens. The frist group starts shooting down the range and you wait. If you are in the last group you won't shoot unitl after lunch. But this is pretty much standard and you kind of expect it. It just start to be more and more annoying, the more experienced you get.
2. I was a AT-Rifleman in a mechanized Infantry Unit. When it's time to dismount your Teamleader yells out "GET READY FOR DISMOUNTING TO THE RIGHT! EVERYTHING GOES WITH US!" And then the Infantry-Team stands up in the tank an get even more cramped. Everyone holding his heavy equipment in his hands instead of wearing it on his shoulders. And then the Backdoor lowers down in a matter of secconds. You rush out of the tank, pushing the man in front of you out, while getting pushed out from behind. And then the really hard jobs start...
Other's Stories:
1. "When I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2010, we (our company) had just witnessed the Good Friday Battle. This was our sister company. But for the first 6 Months, nothing happend. We did our job of course, patroling the streets, securing EOD-Teams that were recovering discovered IED's and stuff, but nothing really happened. But one day out of nowere, an IED exploded right underneath the Wheeled APC (TPZ Fuchs) in front of us. It's Back doors were thrown out towards the read and almost hit us. We were marching behind the Jamming-APC that was supposed to protect us against IED's and got struck by an IED. I got thrown of my feet and it took me a while to reorientate. After I checked if I was alright I looked up and saw nothing but Sand. The explosion threw so much Dust, Sand and Dirt in the air, that we were basically blind. And for the next few weeks of my deployment after that, nothing happened too."
2. Sry I thought I had 2, but I forgot the other one.
Have a nice day Brandon and Thank you for the good video
From an American, thanks for your service in Afghanistan! I know the German Army was there and they did a fine job!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Thank you in the name of my comerades who were there. As I stated I was never deployed overseas.
@@Rossebma I beg your pardon, your comment was so well written I'd forgotten the first sentence! Thanks for serving your country anyway, in this day age it seems to be something most would avoid.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 Thank you four the compliment
Brandon is back in his suit era, and I'm here for it.
Hello Brandon. My interest in the Napoleonic era was mostly on land battles, due to having Airfix miniatures as a child. I did get a bit of knowledge from the Ladybird book about Nelson. The bit about boredom of hours at sea was told to me by my father who was in the Royal Navy from just at the end of WW2.
He described how, to relieve boredom, he tied a dow in Egypt, trying come aside to peddle trinkets, to the ship, causing a bit of a stir.
I always found WW1 naval history nearer to his tales and I was struck by how this could have almost been Jutland. Mind you, at times you gave such a good description that I could almost imagine six hours of you saying "for six hours".
You make learning so fun!
This resonates with me so much. I do living history (sort of)/sail as crew of an actual 19th century sailing ship. Yep, there's a lot of boredom and humdrum routine between the truly exciting bits.
That's awesome! I'd love to take a cruise on an old sailing ship one of these days. Although my stomach may not quite agree with that desire...
@@BrandonF Some bits of advice for dealing with seasickess:
1) Get plenty of fresh air if the sea's rolling you. Being below decks with poor ventilation will bring on seasickness faster than anything. Get topside and face into the wind.
2) Try and keep your stomach full. A sloshy stomach can dring on seasickness.
3) If all else fails and it's available drink plenty of Coca-Cola. Why? It tastes better coming back up!
@@BrandonF Dramamine is your friend on the high seas!
"To Spain the Empire will arrive
through the ways of the seas.
We need to triumph or die.
That's what History showed us:
In Lepanto sweeping victory,
and the death in Trafalgar!"
(Anthem of the Spanish Navy, fourth stanza, translated by me)
The Soviet Movie called At War as at War [На войне как на войне (фильм 1968) ] There's a really good display of how Tank groups were sitting in position, waiting silently for the order to attack, this silence and tension, it's not stretched to 20 minutes, but it does indeed show some of that waiting.
The actual Soviet war movies that are reflecting war, like They Fought for Their Country [Они сражались за родину(фильм 1975)] There are these long pauses where nothing happens, just waiting and silence
I am a bit late for this video, but I own a sailboat and I can tell you:
When you are moving in a straight line with traffic and potential obstacles, but no maneuvers to do, it can be very boring.
to add some context, on a good windy day, sailing from Plattsburgh to Rouses Point: 26 miles (a 30 min car ride) took us 4 hours of sailing.
A very original take - making an extended non-event into one of significance. Good work.
I like that way of putting it! Thank you!
As a prior U.S. Navy submariner, I can tell you without a doubt that routine and boredom, and boredom of routine was the factor that I most remember from deployment(that and 'field day Fridays'.....endless cleaning). I stood various watches in the control room; starting first as a helmsman/planesman then maneuvering-board operator, radar operator(while on the surface) and eventually electronic plot navigator(when paper charts were being phased out). Tracking contacts in the open sea was especially tedious to watch as vessels crept slowly nearer or were maintained at a constant distance for dozens of hours and even days......never firing a shot, never reaching any climax of interaction........just silent, uneventful observation. It takes a special kind of patience not to mention special kind of crazy to serve aboard a sub. No thrilling flight deck operations, interaction with or boarding vessels like in the surface fleet.....just mind numbing inactivity with artificial lights burning 24/7, and an ever present fear that the smallest malfunction could send the boat to the bottom permanently.
During my 6 years of service with the US Army Reserve, I never saw combat or even left the Continental US. What I did get to do, however, was experience a LOT of Hurry Up And Wait.
One event sticks out the most to me. About 8 or 9 weeks into Basic Training, my company was doing our second Field Training Exercise and we got caught in a storm. Due to TRADOC regulations, we had to remain in our single occupant tents until the storm passed.
I spent 36 hours in my tent with no one to look at or talk to, without enough light to even see my own hand in front of me.
The first time I sailed as a marlinspike sailor we were making our way through a fog-laden bay, blowing our horn regularly with multiple lookouts (myself in the sprits). I imagined at the time how difficult it would be for us to close with and engage an enemy. Luckily that day our biggest enemy was some fog that melted quickly, but it's stuck with me.
Always enjoy your channel!
England expects that every man will wait patiently
You are a Very Skillful Storyteller. The army probably goes through similar situations on marches before and after a major battle. Thank you for doing your research and fine presentation.
Already watched it. RECAST GUARD, ASSEMBLE!!!
Thank you.
The 5 hour version of "Das Boot" portrays the boredom perfectly
There is a town in Australia named Trafalgar. It’s so wired seeing a battle share the same name
I would wager the town was named after the battle lol
nothing ever changes in war...the weapons and tactics change, but the fundamental nature of a war never does. War is 99% boredom and anxiety and 1% abject chaos. Even today, it can take hours from detection to actual engagement. Hurry up and wait is real. A lot of the time, after all the hurrying up and waiting, nothing at all happens.
What the Split Enz video of their song, " 6 Months inna Leaky Boat encapsulates. Oh, God, I wish I was home.
Wake up babe a new brandon F video just dropped
Not a film, but the first chapter of the Episodios Nacionales by Spanish author Benito Pérez Galdós (aptly called "Trafalgar") really captures that part. The protagonist begins as a sailor in the Spanish flagship (the Santísima Trinidad). The novel also mentions how the Spanish naval commanders (Gravina and Churruca) were against the sally, but were overruled by the inexperienced Villeneuve.
The sailors in the Franco-Spanish fleet were anything but bored, given the fact that they had to follow a long string of orders and counter-orders that disorganised them (one of the reasons why that fleet lost). Though the different squadrons were in formation, the entire fleet wasn't due to those orders and counter-orders.
The Aubrey and Maturin books on which Master and Commander is based actually do a decent job conveying the boredom. Several times the main characters are part of a chase that lasts for days, only for it to end with no battle at all, or a battle that's over in 20 minutes from the first shot
Anybody who has played dartod in empire total war or Napoleon TW knows how slow the sailships appear and how long it takes to get into proper position and that's starting from relatively close positions
So much great content uploaded today. Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge and thanks to all the content creators who work so hard for us
The Ocean is rarely foggy, only once have I seen fog at sea. In 2018 at the Bay of Biscey
And Yes, I have grown up With the Admirable Lucky Jack and Dr Steven. I was at the age of Lord blakeney, and I to had surgery at that age, multiple
Not sure what your opinion on Black Sails is, but I remember the show depicting some of this tension. They spot sails on the horizon, the mood shifts between hope its friendly and dread that it's hostile. They just wait and get closer and closer until they can see.
Or when a ship is trying to escape and they see an enemy appear and the crew calculates that the enemy is gaining on them and will be in range in however many hours. Maybe this video will address this. I'm only 10 minutes in
I am so excited for this (it came out a minute ago haha)
🎩Hi, great video, as always. Just as an amusing aside, I have a snuff box made of copper from HMS Foudroyant. Lord Nelsons flag ship in 1800. Filled with some nice fresh snuff called Seville. Guess what flavour. 😊
One of the worst things about war is that a lot of the time you never know WHEN. Will your convoy be ambushed on the march? Will you be woken up at 4 AM to man the flak guns? Will you drop your guard for ten seconds and get a shot to the shoulder because you were visible out a window for a heartbeat?
You never know, and the human body can only pump so much adrenaline. Then it just becomes TENSION.
The way the Royal Navy approached Trafalgar is guaranteed to be terrifying. You see the ships ahead of you just getting hammered and you can hear the guns and the screams and you know you're going to be in that fight at any minute now. And it would be terrifying for the French as well- these men were barely trained, and had heard these terrible things about fighting at sea and the how deadly this British navy was. Signalling was in confusion, you were stuck in port for weeks, and if you were Spanish you'd be having second thoughts about this overbearing French alliance. You might see Cadiz burn just because Napoleon bullied the king.
And weren't both sides low on supplies? That last meal might be just a stale biscuit.
Das Boot does, in my opinion, the best job in cinema at depicting the inter-action boredom and nerves.
Somehow i started to wonder what kind of footwear you would wear aboard ships as leather soles are slippery as heck, especially on wet surfaces.
Can you please make a video about Napoleon trailer? (costume, guns, history stuffs, battles, etc.)
Well done Brandon on this video. Too notch stuff. It cannot be stressed enough, how things would take forever to happen. Just the dreary weeks of sailing to a place.
I agree that "Master and Commander, the Far Side of the World" is an excellent movie, very well done. I do have a couple of problems with it. First the changing of the enemy frigate from an American ship to a French ship so as to not hurt the little feeling of American film goers anoyed me. Plus by 1813, the French were never going to send a ship towards the Pacific; but I am nit-picking. The scene where a Royal Marine officer is trying to shoot a bird and follows the bird's path with his musket and firing at deck level hitting Dr. Maturin, I found patently absurd. It was tremendously farb.
If you haven't seen the 1962 film, "Damn the Defiant," it is a must see. It does have a few farbulous moments (like bursts of fire with cannon ball hit -cold shot doesn't do that). But the movie is great with Alec Guiness, Dirk Bogarde, and Anthony Quayle giving great performances and a good action flick.
Are you girding your loins in anticipation of "Napoleon" which is coming out this year?
really interesting, I guess boredom is never really a factor you consider in a historical war movie but it is quite important!
6 hours for a battle isn't that bad. If you look back to roman times, the wait for a battle to start could go on for up to a week
The ancients really are a whole other animal
I mean even in modern battles there might be thousands of rounds used and still modern firefights can take hours. With little actual casualties and maybe just wounded.
@@BrandonF its actually how Pompei suffered his first defeat, he allowed his soliders to talk him into attacking with their superrior numbers before an exploitable disadvantage had been discovered in the enemy army!
and you couldn't break rank to have lunch or use the toilet, could you imagine how awful the smell was
This is one of the things I love about the Honor Harrington sci-fi series, how it portrays the vastness of outer space and the hours, days, and weeks it takes ships to cross it, with combat ranges measured in light-seconds, missiles taking many minutes to reach their targets.
Except after the umpteenth Space Trafalgar battle I got bored of HH
There’s a relatively new game called _Nebulous_ that has an element of this. The time scale is compressed, of course, but on larger maps, it often takes upwards of half an hour for fleets to maneuver into position and organize themselves. Missile salvos launched minutes ago can arrive from unexpected angles, and firing standoff weapons induces random course-changing to throw of firing solutions for rounds fired up to a minute ago.
It was heavily inspired by Hornblower books too - which was heavily inspired by Horatio Nelson's life, along with many other 18th-19th century officers
Different enemy, to be sure, but if you don't come away from Moby Dick with the deepest possible understanding of Hurry Up And Wait....
My ship sheared its drive shaft, so we had metal shavings bouncing around near fuel-oil. To avoid sparks, and because our captain refused to have us be towed into port, we crept home at the brisk pace of 5 knots. I don't remember how many hours it took, but they were simultaneously the most monotonous and terrifying hours I ever spent at sea.
The long chases and preparations are some of the most fascinating parts of stories of the Age of Fighting Sail. I wish they were better represented not just in movies (where their omission is completely understandable) but in wargames. Usually fighting sail wargames completely make a hash of this, and of almost everything to do with the actual sailing, because they can't deal with more than 6 or 8 sailing directions, so there is no subtlety to maneuver, so maneuvers and chases are completely pointless, so, again, they're ignored in the games.
I think that every soldier can agree that the waiting, it's the worst.
My team and I had to sit in a bush for 4 days before the operation begun and we could finally guide laser guided bombs onto their targets.
Honestly being out at sea for months like that would be quite boring but I do not know if I would be excited to potentially be blown to bits
Like leviathans afloat
Lay their bulwarks on the brine,
While the sign of battle flew
On the lofty British line:
It was ten of April morn by the chime:
As they drifted on their path
There was silence deep as death,
And the boldest held his breath
For a time.
Thomas Campbell, Battle of the Baltic
As a veteran, I can attest to the truth of military boredom.
Base commander says to show up at noon. Unit commander says to show up at 1145. First sergeant says to show up at 1130. Captain says to show up at 1115. First lieutenant says to show up at 1100. Sergeant says to show up at 1045. You know that means you're expected to show up half an hour early, and show up at 1015. Stand at parade rest until 1200. Come to attention. Ceremony lasts five minutes. Dismissed.
Hi Brandon, I like the perspective you bring on videos like this. Good stuff. Have you ever commented on the brief, but brutal, WW1 night battle scene in Legends of the Fall? It could be worth exploring. Thanks for the great content.
I think the boredom is portrayed as good as possible in Master and Commander. It is not the same as that waiting for battle, but there is that long arc of the Surprise being caught in brutal heat and a lack of wind that drives the sailors mad and (Spoilers ahead) leads to the death of a young officer believed to be the reason for their misfortune.
And there is another scene earlier in the movie where they try to outrun the Acheron any you can see essentially a whole day of them just sailing while their enemy slowly but steadily comes closer until the first shots are fired shortly before nightfall. During the night, the Surprise outmaneuvers the Acheron and comes up behind her, after which the next arc is Captain Aubrey trying to catch up to his French counter part. That chase is being cut short by the storms of Cape Horn, though.
Later, when they reach the Galapagos islands, you can how happy these men are to finally have a break from life aboard.
What I am trying to say is that I think the movie portrays this boredom as well as it can without making the movie itself boring. Even though they are not necessarily waiting for battle in these scenes.
Anyways: I loved the video, what an excellent description of this part of naval warfare. I really admire your writing skills and wish I could tell it half so good when I am explaining to my friends why history is a lot more interesting than one might think.
Very interesting how we have land battles being artificially paused in a lot of portrayals (the Turn version of Monmouth covered in another video) while the naval battles are accelerated when the opposite was usually the case.
I think you would see that most battles (whether land, air, or sea) are compressed in terms of time, but with certain moments being drawn out.
Most battles involve a lot of boredom and waiting and those do not make good films or TV as it is generally pretty boring.
But you then stretch out the dramatic moments to show off what you want to show.
/That says nothing about Turn, I am not watching that
Got deployed to Afghanistan in 2019 as a machine gunner: spent 90% of that deployment watching movies, training, shooting on ranges, beating off in Porta-johns, and playing spades with the homies while chain-smoking Camel Crush cigarettes. I can confirm that for every 4 minutes of excitement and explosions, there's about 10 days of boredom that go before it.
Master and Commander actually shows what you are describing in the second half of the movie, when the enemy frigate chases them for several days.
I work at a refrigerated production facility as a QA on the receiving docks. Problem is, trucks only take 20-40min to unload and our job is only to watch the unloading making sure nothing goes wrong. Typically 1 or 2 trucks come in through the days. I get paid to stand in the cold for 10 hours (minus 1 hour lunch closed campus), 5 days a week. The past waking year of my life has been mostly spent standing and waiting... Boredom is much worse than the 100 degree fast paced restaurant I worked at previously but for the money I can't pass it up.
Don't forget the forenoon RUM ISSUE! Very important, indeed.........
What's the terrible part of a sailors life ask ye lad? Tis when the when the work stops when ye're twixt wind and water. Doldrums... Doldrums... Eviler than the devil. Boredome makes men to villains, and the water goes quick lad, vanished. The only medicine is drink... Keeps them sailors happy, keeps em agreeable, keeps em calm, keeps em... - Thomas Wake (Willem Dafoe.)
Everyone talking bour Brandon's nice vid, but noone is talking about how spiffy my guy looks
The sailing chase scene at the beginning of princess bride comes to mind as a fun example
There are so many movie worthy stories from the Napoleonic wars. It's a mystery as to why we don't see them being made.
I've never seen Master and Commander. But I hear it's really good.
Very insihtfull Video. Thank you
Love your videos, Brandon!
But on a side note, what are your thoughts on the new Napoleon movie coming out this year? It looked really good judging from the first trailer that released. Even if it turns out to be another “Patriot” movie, I’m sure it’ll at least have good entertainment value.
At first I thought it looked pretty good and exciting. But the longer you look the worse it all gets. I also have to say that having an American Napoleon in an English-accented France fighting English accented Englishmen is weird...
@@BrandonFJoaquin Phoenix looks way too old for the part of the French Emperor anyways.
i do wonder how they'll fit 22 years of history into one film, as a snippet of waterloo was shown, and toulon was mentioned and his "whiff of grapetshot"
I think I'd much rather see Phoenix star as Napoleon in a drama about his last days on St Helena!
And it's Hollywood, so you're trying to fit 22 years of a very full life in 2-3 hours and you've got to make sure that at least 15 minutes of that -- ~10% -- is flirting and foreplay.
Just a minor quibble, but I would note that you can see a ship beyond the observed horizon because it will also be fairly tall.
The only movie that I can think of that addresses boredom is Muppet Treasure Island, but that isn't what you're going for.
I would disagree that Master and Commander doesn't show the mind-numbing boredom, there's that while entire scene where they're stuck in the doldrums with nothing to do and everyone looks hot and miserable and bored as hell
I love your channel. It's like sitting watching one if my AMAZING professors with more drama. I absolutely love this.
I have to add: ya nailed it, man.
Tell us where you studied and what you do other than making these terrific videos, please.
Real ASW - Awfully Slow Warfare.
sounds like Test Cricket.
While not a personal experience, my Dad was a Naval Heli Pilot during Desert Storm. I asked him about his experiences and he told me that the VAST majority of his time was just spent on the deck of the Destroyers he was assigned, Tending to his Craft, Attending meetings and Theoretical Drills, and just actual waiting.
Even when he did get a flight mission, mostly involving Resupply, though sometimes into hostile active fighting zones, Most of the flight was the Journey. Him sitting in the Pilot seat, or on occasion on the Gunner Seat just flying for several hours with nothing to report.
To be sure, the US DOMINANCE of the Air Space in that war likely contributed to his lack of direct action for most of it, but I can't imagine many being all that more busy.
In Afghanistan we moved as a battle group once in the back of our LAV III's. I could almost crawl faster than we were going, and we would take turns standing with our heads sticking out of the family hatches in the back. Finally I looked down and asked my Sgt. "there are no civis here right? The breifing was they all left long ago, and only Timmy Taliban lives here now?" He confirmed yes, so I told the driver to drop ramp, ran out, picked some fruit off the trees, and brought it back to divy up amongst my section. There was not even a fight at the end of this story, I can't even remember our objective, I just remember my knees hurting from being cramped in the back so long.
I just want to say a few short things. As someone who has sailed on quite a few voyages as a sailor I think that I at least can comment how we do it nowadays. (Obviously I haven't taken part in any naval battles).
Firstly, lookouts; They are very rarely on the mast. The simple reason for this is that: If they see something, the time it takes to communicate said thing makes it more valuable to have the lookouts on deck, usually at the forecastle but sometimes (during hard weather) on the poopdeck. Another reason for not having them in the mast would be that sails, actually need constant adjustment, and being in the mast when a yard is brought about is pretty dangerous. So you don't want anyone up there. (On military vessels there were probably some positioned in the mast nontheless, however, surely not in on the top.)
We aren't doing nothing while at sea, the ship needs constant work. So I belive that, yes, for officers, gun crews and marines, not being in combat would be incredibly boring. But people like the bosun, the average sailor or the sailmakers, there is always something to do. These things don't have engines.
(obviously Im no expert, but Im barely speaking from my experience )
In master and commander, while they where being chased, Aubrey is seen to still give lessons to his midshipmen on using a sextant.
And cannons on ships are called guns.
And lastly, I just want to say that, obviously I don't know how it really was. And Im sure that the first hand accounts know better than me. And I can't even imagine sailing towards something that could rip me to shreds for 6+ hours. I do know however how it feels to not be able to arrive for many hours or days to your target, or how it feels to try to catch up with another vessel... and that alone is pretty hard to endure. ( of course, I was never shot at when I arrived at said target)
I noticed that among the things 'lost overboard' when clearing for action were five (5!) casks of ready-to-drink grog. Call me cynical, but I can't help suspecting that the grog passed through the crew first - and not before the battle!
Short bursts of death, destruction, and terror encapsulated within long spans of mind numbing boredness?
War. War never changes.
That boredom would have almost certainly been the same during WWII. Take the Battle of Midway where the US knew that the Japanese fleet was out there, somewhere, but didn't know exactly where until a scout plane managed to stumble upon the Imperial Japanese Navy fleet. Then it was a mad scramble as all of the carrier pilots ran to their planes to launch their attacks on the Japanese fleet.
There's saying about combat or being in war and that it's long hours of boredom followed by moments of absolute terror.
Love me some napoleonic naval warfare in the evening :)
ROOM!
1:14 Oooh, the shade!
This is why naval re-enactments aren’t popular. Try a 6-hour video in which you stand next to a cannon and…look at stuff.
I own Total War: Napoleon and I have played the Trafalgar battle, boring sums it up quite well.
Extremely good and entertaining video, as usual, Brandon!
That's one of my two chief takeaways from my service in the Coastal Artillery: waiting. The other was sleep privation. When I was on leave I was constantly knocked out, trying to catch up. The amount of waiting you have to do in the services is staggering. But then, on the other hand, realistic fiction tries to portray PART of reality of our world or a fictional one. It's not much fun watching Adm. Lord Nelson getting up on a Tuesday during home service at Greenwich, scratching his behind, going to the privy, having tea and a rind of bacon for breakfast, going for a walk, sitting down at his desk at the Admiralty for a bit of writing, talking shop with his colleagues, going to the privy once again, having another cup of tea &c.
Restreppo is a pretty good glimpse into what life was like in a COP in some of the more active areas in Afghanistan.
Love the nautical subject matter ! Thank you for the great video!
This is true of all military operations and depictions thereof, probably even more so today xD
I think master and commander does show said boredom, almost all of the movie is about the chase not the fighting itself
i think if you play holdfast on the naval mode then that is probably the most accurate representation