Amazing demo with so many technical mysteries going on. People who weren't around back then (and have no experience with programming assembler on the C64) can't really understand how amazing this demo is.
I would almost pay to see these coders go and grab one of the the best games of the day and optimize the hell out of it and add/improve stuff. Then everyone would want to play the 'old' revised games again. With some of the tricks around you could make some shitty games become what they could or should have been
Never going to happen. I've been told point-blank that demos are super-uber-mindnumbingly hard to write, while games are absolute child's play in comparison, so it shouldn't take a demo coder more than a couple hours to take their awesome filled 3D graphics routines and plug them into a game like Elite or Driller and make it run 10x faster. Yet strangely, none of them are willing to do that. I wonder why...
@@lurkerrekrul Don't worry , I understand the reasons why it doesn't happen, but surely someone out their is just insane enough to try and do it? Look at Mario Bros and Sonic on the 64, never thought that would happen but there out there. Absolutely brilliant work on them that could have cost them their sanity
@@geoffgunn9673 Here is my personal opinion, which I realize is unpopular and looked down upon by hardcore fans of C64 demos: I don't believe that the tricks they use in demos would necessarily translate into something usable in a game. People see 3D objects moving and rotating in a demo and think "Wow, Elite should have graphics like that!" The problem is that in a demo, a limited number of simple objects are being animated while playing music and maybe scrolling some text. The movement and rotation of the objects has been planned in advance. In a game, the movement is based on the enemy AI in response to what the player does. The game also has to keep track of the player's position and orientation, the position and rotation of any other ships in the area, the positions of all the ships relative to the planet and star, the player's shield strength, energy banks, laser temperature, altitude, cabin temperature, damage to the ship, shield strength and damage to the other ship, animating the radar, reading and responding to player input, etc. I'm not saying that Elite is as optimized as absolutely possible, but there are so many other things going on behind the scenes that I don't think it's realistic to expect demo-quality 3D graphics to work in an actual game. Maybe in an arcade shooter, something like Star Raiders, but not in a fully 3D game like Elite. Likewise, while there was a demo a few years ago, where I believe you could walk through a simple 3D structure with relatively fast movement, I don't think they would be able to take those routines and put them into something like Driller, or Castle Master and have them maintain that speed. I believe that this is the reason you never seen any of these demo effects being used in games. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think it will happen any time soon.
5 місяців тому+2
@@lurkerrekrul And there's even more reasons on why it will be hard to combine demo 3D-gfx and a game. It would require bitmap and not a 16x16 char-grid to serve the whole screen, maybe even double buffer and also game logic, maps, whatsoever will use up memory too. In a demo you can waste all memory for the effect shown, being able to unroll code and create data structures that make things go faster. Keeping things smaller slows down stuff. In case of elite you need to maintain a whole world coordinate system with realtime maths, not just transform a bunch of edges/vertices.
Exactly, which is why I've always disagreed with the assertion that demo coders are more talented than game programmers. It's also why I see these demos as mostly pointless. Don't get me wrong, I like demos that tell a story, or have a consistent theme, but ones that are just a bunch of random effects bore me. Sure, they're pretty, but what's the point? It's not like 90% of the effects they show off have any practical use.
That game montage....do you reckon they had to recreate every single game or would they have ripped code from the original games? Im no programmer so im just interested.
Maybe it's a continuous loading trick like in the history of every video game system in their later years when the RAM became uncomfortably small to keep up with the increasing demand of times... also those are just tiny snippets of each game, with zero logic behind the looks.
What graphics are you referring to? The same cars re-appear over and over again, many cars are the same except their color, which can be done by a palette swap. All the cars in every lane are always the same except their color and there are 9 detail levels per lane, if I counted correctly. So there are 27 car graphics in total but keep in mind that the first three levels are tiny, just a few pixels. And the last three levels almost look the same, so maybe they are the same graphic just painted by different paint code that creates the last three levels during the paint process. I wouldn't be surprised if their aren't even variations for each lane, but the perspective is also faked by the drawing code (e.g. except for the back window and shadow below, left and right lane could be mirrored version of the same graphic). The trees and their shadows left and right are also made up of the same elements all the time, that are just re-combined in clever ways and also used for the shadows on the road; all of this in repeating patterns as every couple of frames trees and shadows look exactly the same as a few frames before and a few frames later. The road is statically painted, the background is static, the lane markers are just painted by code and finally there is one player car that looks differently. I think this game uses less graphics than many other classic C64 games, it just doesn't use static graphics but has many smaller graphic elements that are dynamically colored and re-combined by the drawing code.
Eh are you referring to this video showing all these game's graphics? sounds like you've talking about something else perhaps @@xcoder1122. The entire swinging animation for example among loads more all in 64k?
Amazing demo with so many technical mysteries going on. People who weren't around back then (and have no experience with programming assembler on the C64) can't really understand how amazing this demo is.
That was absolutely phenomenal! So much perfection there and so much of it, I'm amazed
that dithering effect with transperacy was really cool
what the...how is this even possible!!!
The Commodore 64 was never supposed to do that !
that game montage was incredible
8:50
Squeeze those bytes! Make us proud!
Phenomenal! The opening part is so genius!
Just fantastic, even now they're still trying to ring the lsst ounce out of our beloved C64.
Omg this is such an amazing presentation. Love it.
This is very, very impressive. Good job!
Fucking amazing 👍👍👍C64 Rules
It seems too good to be real. 👌
I always imagine what people would think if a demo was sent back through time.
that is pure awesomeness!
Amazing. Also the sounds are unique 👍🏼
Incredible
❤
Impressive démo 💪👾
absolutely winner! ))
amazing
Mind blown !!!
Holy moly!!!
A modern update of the old Xcess-Rewind demo. :-)
I would almost pay to see these coders go and grab one of the the best games of the day and optimize the hell out of it and add/improve stuff. Then everyone would want to play the 'old' revised games again. With some of the tricks around you could make some shitty games become what they could or should have been
Never going to happen. I've been told point-blank that demos are super-uber-mindnumbingly hard to write, while games are absolute child's play in comparison, so it shouldn't take a demo coder more than a couple hours to take their awesome filled 3D graphics routines and plug them into a game like Elite or Driller and make it run 10x faster. Yet strangely, none of them are willing to do that. I wonder why...
@@lurkerrekrul Don't worry , I understand the reasons why it doesn't happen, but surely someone out their is just insane enough to try and do it?
Look at Mario Bros and Sonic on the 64, never thought that would happen but there out there. Absolutely brilliant work on them that could have cost them their sanity
@@geoffgunn9673 Here is my personal opinion, which I realize is unpopular and looked down upon by hardcore fans of C64 demos: I don't believe that the tricks they use in demos would necessarily translate into something usable in a game.
People see 3D objects moving and rotating in a demo and think "Wow, Elite should have graphics like that!" The problem is that in a demo, a limited number of simple objects are being animated while playing music and maybe scrolling some text. The movement and rotation of the objects has been planned in advance. In a game, the movement is based on the enemy AI in response to what the player does. The game also has to keep track of the player's position and orientation, the position and rotation of any other ships in the area, the positions of all the ships relative to the planet and star, the player's shield strength, energy banks, laser temperature, altitude, cabin temperature, damage to the ship, shield strength and damage to the other ship, animating the radar, reading and responding to player input, etc.
I'm not saying that Elite is as optimized as absolutely possible, but there are so many other things going on behind the scenes that I don't think it's realistic to expect demo-quality 3D graphics to work in an actual game. Maybe in an arcade shooter, something like Star Raiders, but not in a fully 3D game like Elite.
Likewise, while there was a demo a few years ago, where I believe you could walk through a simple 3D structure with relatively fast movement, I don't think they would be able to take those routines and put them into something like Driller, or Castle Master and have them maintain that speed.
I believe that this is the reason you never seen any of these demo effects being used in games. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think it will happen any time soon.
@@lurkerrekrul And there's even more reasons on why it will be hard to combine demo 3D-gfx and a game. It would require bitmap and not a 16x16 char-grid to serve the whole screen, maybe even double buffer and also game logic, maps, whatsoever will use up memory too. In a demo you can waste all memory for the effect shown, being able to unroll code and create data structures that make things go faster. Keeping things smaller slows down stuff. In case of elite you need to maintain a whole world coordinate system with realtime maths, not just transform a bunch of edges/vertices.
Exactly, which is why I've always disagreed with the assertion that demo coders are more talented than game programmers. It's also why I see these demos as mostly pointless.
Don't get me wrong, I like demos that tell a story, or have a consistent theme, but ones that are just a bunch of random effects bore me. Sure, they're pretty, but what's the point? It's not like 90% of the effects they show off have any practical use.
Cool ... Signed by : Megasoft Argentina ( Mr.JJ / Juanete )
How did they make the transparency fx?
Really wise choice of colors.
WOW 😍
I still think if you saw this and Edge of Disgrace on the same day, you would think the latter was the better demo (only just!)
FYAA!
😲🤯
That game montage....do you reckon they had to recreate every single game or would they have ripped code from the original games? Im no programmer so im just interested.
no idea but it's very impressive..
eh how is it possible to load all these game's graphics into a single load? how come this isn't a mention
I don't know how it is done - either way it is amazing work and very entertaining.
Maybe it's a continuous loading trick like in the history of every video game system in their later years when the RAM became uncomfortably small to keep up with the increasing demand of times... also those are just tiny snippets of each game, with zero logic behind the looks.
hmm maybe but that's a lot of graphics and there is logic going on@@Gary_Hun . It would be interesting to see how they did it
What graphics are you referring to? The same cars re-appear over and over again, many cars are the same except their color, which can be done by a palette swap. All the cars in every lane are always the same except their color and there are 9 detail levels per lane, if I counted correctly. So there are 27 car graphics in total but keep in mind that the first three levels are tiny, just a few pixels. And the last three levels almost look the same, so maybe they are the same graphic just painted by different paint code that creates the last three levels during the paint process. I wouldn't be surprised if their aren't even variations for each lane, but the perspective is also faked by the drawing code (e.g. except for the back window and shadow below, left and right lane could be mirrored version of the same graphic). The trees and their shadows left and right are also made up of the same elements all the time, that are just re-combined in clever ways and also used for the shadows on the road; all of this in repeating patterns as every couple of frames trees and shadows look exactly the same as a few frames before and a few frames later. The road is statically painted, the background is static, the lane markers are just painted by code and finally there is one player car that looks differently. I think this game uses less graphics than many other classic C64 games, it just doesn't use static graphics but has many smaller graphic elements that are dynamically colored and re-combined by the drawing code.
Eh are you referring to this video showing all these game's graphics? sounds like you've talking about something else perhaps
@@xcoder1122. The entire swinging animation for example among loads more all in 64k?
Is this running from a c64 HDD?
no, a floppy
AMSTRAD CPC >>>>>> C64
Nah
are you serious???