only thing i'd add to the discussion (i think eyal levi mentioned it on his podcast). From an outside perspective, having a mixing desk says to a potential client "this guy means business". I'm not saying anyone should buy a mixing desk to impress clients, but if you already have one, that's a strong reason not to get rid of it. As stupid as it sounds, it is true haha
+Hog Blockula it’s true in a way. Just this week I had a band come In the studio that were impressed by the desk, near the end of the 3 day session they were very happy with the sound- I told them I hadn’t used the desk at all and they weren’t bothered, because they were already getting the results they wanted
generally i agree but i wonder if having 3 or 4 large format vid monitors up with 48 or so channels of faders and dancing meters spread across them behind some particularly appealing guis of plugins (maybe a spectrum analyzer for example) might have the same effect...and possibly a more direct line to the younger potential clients? as well as inspiration for the engineers (us) who have to sit in the seat and manipulate all the stuff on the screen and more, i have to admit that i would miss walking into a studio and seeing all the implements of destruction available to me ;-)
In your position as running a recording studio on tight budget you are probably doing the right thing and it will continue going down that path. The DAWs and plugins do a great job, even to the point of making stuff appear "warm" if so desired. So, essentially, what customers are paying for is your expertise. But as a recording artist, I have found the digital world becoming more and more consuming, less helping me being creative. My experience is that digital gets "old" as well and calls for "maintenance" ... i.e. upgrades, interfaces being dropped, cheap components crapping out, crazy bulks of data, ... It does not age gracefully! I have a park of digital gear that does not connect to any OS any longer. It's the most pathetic stuff, dead and useless ... and then I pull out a 40 year old synth ... and find myself making music! Also, the limit of, say, the "magical" 24 tracks ... I found myself wasting tons of time on all the optional "haven't decided" tracks and alternative takes in the box. Mixing down projects with 140 tracks (or more) ... Total recall can easily get defeated by such complexity. Just thinking of having spent that time on practicing instruments ... No alternative takes, no editing on sample level, instead, strong statements ... I think you get it. So there's two things I believe may remain assets to some folks: 1. Limits can challenge creativity ... that's independent of any technology ... but the "old stuff" happens to bring along dedicated ergonomics instead of "OPTIONS". 2. Gear that is married to software and operating systems turns to wasteful garbage. Nobody will repair or reactivate that stuff. And I would wish for "prosumers" to state a strong NO to such developments. This is an issue of valuable resources. As a recording artist I think I shall continue to tolerate that hiss and cultivate my skills at meeting the challenges. But I get your point: In your position I wouldn't bother with semi-impressive analog technology if I were making my living from renting out studio space and services. The DAWs get the job done for sure and will get even better at that. I appreciate your thoughts and your statement.
It's nice to hear your thoughts on this. As a hobbyist running a (bottom the line) laptop based setup, I have no choice but to do everything in the box. It's nice to know I can still get good sound in the digital realm.
It's 2020 what's in my studio. I use a dedicated preamp, an outboard compressor just for light compression on vocals, drum machine, a couple midi keyboards, audient ID 14 and everything else is inside the DAW. I know mixers are still around but I haven't walked into someone's studio and seen one in use for quite some time.
I like to gain stage on my Soundcraft Spirit Studio 16. I use the preamp in the mixer for my mic. I use the mixer to monitor my PC analog out on headphones. I record for later mixing from my PC out to my hardware effects and then into channels on my mixer. There are so many ways to gain stage through my Soundcraft to get the headroom I want. The mixer has been modded by me new capacitors on 6 channel strips and three group channels and the entire output channel. I love my RME sound card and my software but I don't think digital has surpassed my love for the analog side of my gear.
Analog is home to me. It’s the only way I’ll record. Easier to mix right at the board to get the “base” sound faster and do final tweaking within the daw of choice. Blending mics feels better to me, and honestly, the nostalgia gets me. Whether latency is an issue or not, we as human beings will never be perfect and I will never attempt to. Therefore, if I screw up, I’ll either keep it in the mix or re record it. I want to sound like I play it. Not like I hired a robot to sound “flawless.” And I definitely don’t see it being out of “fashion” either anytime soon. Great vid bro.
Mixing desks or analog gear in general, aren't technically necessary today. However, that doesn't mean analog gear and mixing desks don't have a use in 2017. I've been recording and producing music for 10 years now and I've learned a lot in that time. And in that time I've learned that the gear only makes half of the results. Not any amount of gear at any price can fix bad recording and mixing technique. I've noticed a lot of musicians who start recording for themselves often do not take the time to learn the craft. Much like with any instrument, it takes time to learn and develop proper techniques to produce the best sound possible. So what I see that happens, is that people will go buy a bunch of uneccasary (mixer) mediocre gear, new, used or both and expect to produce top notch recordings. So if you use a cheap mixer with cheap mics connected with cheap cables going into a cheap interface monitoring with cheap speakers, and used bad technique through all that, the results will suffer. To start, less is more until better gear can be aquired. Some people learn that from the start, or eventually learn that they can produce better results with a mid grade interface and some plugin packs. But then they keep themselves trapped in the digital realm. I'm in the process of planning a hybrid mixing setup utilizing a vintage small format mixing desk for mix down. While it won't be used that way for everything, I will have more flexibility in my work flow vs mixing exclusively itb. Then eventually, I want to aquire a few good preamps and a compressor or two. I like the tactile hands on approach to mixing vs clicking a mouse for hours. Also, for me, doing everything inside the daw ruins my creativity. So the short and skinny of all this is yes. A worthy well maintained mixer can still be used for modern day productions effectively.
I'd tend to agree with this - talking from a home-studioist/artist point of view. seems to me that the better the analog side of a vocal or analog instrument track is, before entering the box, the greater mix you'll be able to get with the fewer "software-driven" effects (requiring more CPU resources). Besides, if you EVER think you might have to present your work in live conditions, you'll have your whole analog side with you (that you're used to "acoustically" speaking) much more easily and naturally than getting your laptop/computer on stage + having to find a way to control it while you're playing... huh, huh... forget it. :) I know a few dudes did that, like McLaughling for example, but always only one guitar at a time, and he doesn't sing. So, I'd advise to move everything related to your "personal tonal touch" in the analog-side (finding "your" mic, "your" amp, "your" overdrive, compressor, ...), and using the software part of your DAW essentially to properly blend every track together, with the less "correction-driven" applied plugins, and more of a mastering approach towards the making of an "overall style" of production (in a well-thought-through mixing template you use systematically). In this perspective, I found the principle of combining mixers with an USB Audio interface (like the Alto Live 802 thingy for ex.) was going into the right direction (for a dude at my level in any case), would you have something to say about those...?
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing your thaughts. In your position i could understant. But as far as i’m consern for my home studio i’m just started, i’m not looking for the cleanest sound possible. I’ve got vintage amps and guitar, i want that sound shore may be not perfect in some opinions, but with caracter. I’m not sure my bad english translate correctly what i mean. So, since this video, no use Of the analog desk or the tape machine ?
Analog above all, im sorry. I have waves, uad and plug-in alliance... But my analog gear (emulated by plug-in) Is different. I have la2a, 1176 and a lot more. I have a/b with preamp emulation against plugins... The difference between a real 1073 and the uad emulation is between day and night.
Thank you For this Video; right now I'm All in the box, but I've decided to get some outboard gear : A Pré amp through which i can run vocals, Stringed instruments, bass, guitar. and a bus compressor for my stereo bus. and a Qcon icon control surface. I was thinking of getting an analog mixer for summing but I there's no way i can live without recall, I go through many mixed of many different projects everyday, so it didn't make sense to me to get an analog mixer for my workflow.
Could you recommend a audio interface in replacement for my desks i need 16 inputs , also i like to hard pan my outboard fx on the desk and eq how to do in a audio interface. Dungeon keeper 2 for me ;)
10:52 - Prism Atlas (on sale June 2018): AD/DA Conversion is amazing. Ultra lifelike. Pre-amps are very good. Telefunken v76 into the Prism Atlas is the best.
So what’s your realistic dream setup? A 1073, maybe some other analog modules with a higher quality converter? Or get stereo pair of slate mics and call it a day?
+s good question, the goalposts are moving all the time in my mind. I’m going to get a slate mic soon, see how good they are (having used U87s into 1073s, if it’s even close I’ll be happy) and if they’re really that good I’ll be going down that route for sure
There is no need for coloured preamps anymore, you can get all the colour you need later in the box...but there is a need for the kind of reactive relationship the mic and preamp have on each other...I don't know, it could take a while til a digital preamp can achieve that
I think you made 100 percent valid points. The only way to compete with studios like ocean way, blackbird, air studios and so forth, is to build a million dollar pro studio which 99 percent of us cannot afford so digital with a decent DAW and plugins are winning the race for 99 percent of people
@@davehalt1806 yes and no. going through analog gets much different sound stamp than staying digital all the way through. you can definately get pretty close to analog when in the digital domain, but it requires a lot less work and tweaks which at the end my not be so pleasant workflow wise, to some.
Everything is falling out of use, thanks to the computer. The more things you can do with software, the less you need actual physical gear. It's just more convenient to do everything on the computer. BUT - In music, there's a serious quality loss with digital. So even if going "all digital" and "do everything in the box" is more convenient, the trade off is poor sound quality compared to for instance, analog tape - especially when recording acoustics. The computer is making a lot of professions, and physical objects obsolete. Companies have gone out of business because their hardware was no longer as convenient to use as software. Because people tend to prefer convenient over quality. And since most people are happy with software & plugin sound quality, there's no point making hardware anymore... So yeah... while digital is easy and convenient, it takes the life, the "soul" out of the sound. Just a shame people are not thriving to get a better and better sound today, instead it's more about getting things done quicker, cheaper, easier, more conveniently = turn to the computer. Even if that means losing quality.
+Purity generally speaking, I disagree with your assessment. I agree that a lot of mixes sound more “separate”, but this is down to choices from the mix engineers rather than the equipment they use. Generally younger engineers (the more “digital” ones) make more surgical EQ choices where the older ones with the analog mindsets make broader ones- I’ve heard very separated mixes on analog tape, and very glued mixes on completely digital systems, it’s very much up to the choices made at each stage more than the storage mediums
People are trying to get things done quicker, cheaper, and easier because of capitalism. Systemic effects on human behavior due to the dominant economic forces as structured by the governmental apparatus, have been studied in depth in both the psychological and sociological fields.
Ptr If I look at television sets, the newer analog generation was always better than the previous one. Digital became a huge improvement over analog. More than price and weight, the lack of quality was what killed analog.
It’s funny I find the opposite. Starting from all digital to buying analog gear made a world of difference! From a sharp 2d sound to easily making it a warm 3D pleasant sound. If analog was dying and digital is the new way forward than hardware wouldn’t be made anymore and people wouldn’t be buying it, plug in companies would make software to try and emulate it and if these famous engineers were really going all digital than they would of sold all their hardware already while they can get top dollar for it. Now I will say there is a huge difference between the sound of a SSL desk and a Eurodesk. A hybrid system with good hardware is the way to go, all digital will take you hours upon hours to get a mix up to industry standards. Going through a good hardware channel strip will sound 100x better than however many numerous eq and compressor plugins you can add to it. Than also bogging down your cpu and dealing with it freezing and glitching cause you have 200 different plugins running at once.
Back in the day, I'm pretty sure pre-amping was quite expensive for each Channel Recording, and most of the time due to a tight budget, the results wouldn't be as Sick as they are today haha, but still averagely great for it's time! :) But when It came to Listening to Enter Sandman on the Tape Deck through a Raw Bass HiFi System, God... It sounds so Raw and Heavy with that Classic Low Filter!!!! ;D But I'll be quite honest, old recording equipment gear is very Idolistic for that Classic Home Entertainment feeling we all Loved growing up! Old equipment can be very useful for recording today, especially if you want that Retro Vibe to it, if you get me! :)
Can you make an authentic 70's vibe using plugins ? Are the sound similar ? Have you ever used urei 1176 compressor and neve console to compare them with plugins ? thanks for the vid, I enjoyed a lot !
I have indeed, I’ve used 1176 silver and black faces, 1178 stereo units, neve VR and 5088 consoles, and the Slate versions of the 1073 and 1176 are so close it’s almost Indistinguishable - so long as everything is set the same. In the analog world we naturally don’t push things as hard- in digital it’s easy to be tempted to push more “character” and distortion from a plugin, which is when people start saying they sound nothing alike. Of course, without having the real units in the studio it’s all just opinion, but there are Grammy winning mix engineers moving onto the Slate plugins, so it must be close enough!
alexandre diakhate I have used Neve consoles as well as SSL to name a few. Desks are amazing. But high quality plugins/as long as the chain going into the daw is world class it's game on :)
As always, great video! However, one thing to keep in mind, which I'm sure you probably already know but you didn't talk about, is that plugging a line level signal into both the Focusrite and Audient unit DOES NOT bypass the internal amplifiers. You will definitely get more noise doing this, with both of those units, because you're essentially plugging a mic preamp into another mic preamp. To get the best AD/DA performance with external pres you need an interface who's line input that completely bypasses the preamp. If your gain knob on your interface affects how loud your line in signal is, don't use it.
CLA has a near unlimited budget and already has all the gear. This video is a discussion about those of us who aren’t immortal with enough assistants to keep the desks running
I'm a guitarist who only dabbles in producing and mixing. But I kinda grew up digitally and I really don't see the point these days in having unpractical, heavy analog gear... I think there are a few factors at work here. - There's a simple one: People that invested thousands in analog gear won't throw that out the window for a 200£ multieffects box, even if the quality is exactly the same. - There was a time (~2000-2010) when it was possible to do everything digital but the quality just wasn't there. That time has passed. You can have amazing quality with pure digital gear and software and it's almost always cheaper and easier to handle. - In the guitar world the war has been between analog pedalboards and huge amps and amp modelers and digital effects boards. These days you can get amp models, cabinet simulation and every guitar effect that ever was, all in a compact and lightweight box that will produce amazing sound quality. I mean of course Angus Young (AC/DC) won't stop using his Marshall stacks that get shipped around in trucks :D but for the regular professional musician there is just no reason anymore to kill our backs carrying heavy gear and spending hours setting everything up. - And that leads me to my next point: TIME&Money. It takes me literally 5min to set up my gear. It always sounds the same and it always sounds good. When I see those pedal boards with 20 seperate boxes, 100 cables, tiny knobs everywhere and hacks to get the bpm synced it just gives me a headache :D so much stuff that can go wrong. Same goes for recording. I have a simple Mackie interface and a simple DAW (stagelight) and I can produce high quality tracks and demos basically anywhere with little effort :) --> It's truly a joy to be a musician these days from that point of view :)
Some non professional recording studio, owned by musicians, go the other way. They don't have the constraint of productivity and actually enjoy the flexibility of a mixing desk. It is not just for the "analog sound", which is most of a myth, but for the simplicity and the intuitive aspect of a well design mixer. I went from a Mackie 1642 to an Onyx 24.4 and I am delighted with the convenience of it. But I do understand why professional recording facilities got on with the digital technology.
I feel like I know you man! (I'm trying to sound American. lol). You seem like a cool guy to work with and you explained the future of recording studios perfectly and why the computer age has done away with hardware; you summed it all up with hands-on knowledge that's a million times better than reading about it all in a book. Well done :))
I'm using a USB 2.0 interface and I am at 5 ms. So latency has nothing to do with the interface. I think analogoue is not going anywhere. The old technology is needed to get any usable signal into the digital system.
Say what you want but in my experience the clients like to see a proper mixing desk with flashing led's and meter dials in the studio, the bigger the better , i only use it for headphone mixes and for sound distribution/routing. Clients are happy so i'm happy too!!
These are all issues that had me abandon analog workflow many years ago. I have come full circle though since I have long standing experience repairing gear I took the plunge on a 24 channel amr desk that was about 25 grand new when it popped up used for $300. Repaired 4 matching interfaces that can daisy chain without the need for asio4all and now I got 24 channel strips, and a total of 40x40 I/O and a console that can have 56 inputs at mixdown. Sending master section to Jim Williams at the start of 2023, have FX units for all 4 stereo sends, 10 channels of Swiss army comps, and am finishing up my master bus chain and I run hybrid with reaper and am mixing much faster than I did with a mouse, and my noise floor is incredibly low for this kind of setup (about 96db of dynamic range if I am fully utilizing the console, much lower if I am not) I don't worry much about recall because with reinsert I can record each channel post eq and fader and save it as a second take for my sessions as well as my busses and fx to send back at unity with no eq later for channels and just recall my mix bus.
@@adamsteelproducer yeah, I have about 26u if gear and half of the stuff needed recaps and the rest severe Cleaning. I had the time to pull the master section and all 36 slots from the frame to recondition when I got hit by a car and was unable to work for a couple months. Research is important because before I bought the console I looked at design and if you can believe it, it was pragmatically designed and every cap I checked was still within spec despite the console being made in 1993! I got stupid lucky haha just needed lots of pot cleaning and dirt scrubbed off. All that's left is a few vu meters add noise to the signal but I've been too lazy and just unhooked the offending meters from their channels haha. I would never go for a used console that isn't modular with an external PSU these days because all the maintenance nightmares I have had helping friends with those style. When a console is fully modular and takes 3 people to lift, it was never intended as a "budget" piece so with elbow grease you can really get something cool. I found the first owners contact info in the master section via a sticker and talked with him, console recorded and mixed the first bloodhound gang record so it's got a gold record under it's belt, which really validated my journey.
An analogoue desk can still be used in any studio, you don't have to use one for mixing, that you do in the box. A mixer can be used for headphone mixes, as a massive and versatile patchbay, you can also use the desk for monitor distribution. I could give more examples but one of the big ones is that clients love mixing desks,flashy leds and sliders!! There some nice mixers out there on the cheap that have nice preamps so that's a plus!!
i suppose a lot of people want to mimic what they love- the sounds of yesterday. Plugging your guitar into an app called ''fender twin reverb'' is better to save ,space , money and time but wont get you an accurate sound of an amp. it's good that we have both options,.( i know this isnt exactly what the video is about ,but its a just another thought on physical vs digital )
iT's a huge thread, i think. I agree with you, mostly. Nowadays we can record with the clarity and dynamic range that were almost impossible to achieve up until 10/15 years ago, and we ALL should make the most of this huge opportunity we have instead of following nostalgic trends. Digital audio resolution has gone way beyond our listening capabilities, that0s the main point... Even cheap audio interfaces today boost huge dynamic range and impressive s/n ratio, arguably leading us to record clean, shiny digital, noiseless and soulless tracks, and so we NEED to ADD that analog warmth to our sounds AFTER recording. That's where 2-BUSS analog processing as well as analog summing definitely makes sense and comes in handy.
I guess you are right, but... I just bought a Tascam model 24 and are currently finding ways to implement it into my work flow. The reason is that I am so tired of only working only in the box - witch I have done forever. I just miss the tactile quality of it all and started too long for a place where I actually have to make decisions at the source. I am also tired of dealing with 2 million ways to treat a recorded piece in post. It is a bit like buying a camera that can handle ISO 76000. But as I said at the top, I guess you are right. Just take the argument, besides the ones you present, of who gets too record, mix and produce today, the industry is much more democratic now.
I’ve just gotten back into recording after a period away and have watched a few of your videos recently and have found them extremely good and informative. Following a comment you made about Manchester I’ve just looked up your studio. You live about 6 miles away . (I’m in bramhall 😂😂) anyway keep up the good work. I’ve just bought a qcon pro x and just can’t force myself to try and use it rather than the keyboard and mouse. I use Reaper and every controller is compromised trying to be all things to all men. Why bother taking time to map all your plug ins and Wade through 10 clicks to bring them onto your controller when you can do it within seconds on a mouse. New controller manufacturers have to work exclusively with 1 DAW so the workflow is obvious, easy, straightforward and works. Still love the old huge desks though, they just ooze excitement. All the best, Steve
Well to go “all digital”, you would need digital microphones, Neumann make some. But for what I meant, you need good clean preamps, good AD conversion, and something like the Slate Everything Bundle so you have access to compressors, EQ, good reverb and delay to replace all the outboard you would have used
Even though not necessary, they are def. inspiring. I would say spend your cash on external hardware instead but then the console loving whore in me who also periodically looks at Reverb wants to know what you have in mind? I find the greatest limiting factor is not enough group busses. I would want 8
I am still learning digital Live sound reinforcement. I Agree with you especially when you commented on the fact that you would need 10 different compressors for the drums (lets say) Digital offers so much more freedom to control the signal per channel and add specific EQ & Compressor settings per channel. I have had an Analog mixer for live sound for over 30 years and I am still learning I purchased my first Digital console last Febuary and wow do I need someone to help me get the most out of my Digital board. Peace ChrisP
Thanks for an interesting video. Ahh man, and here was me just about to buy a new desk so I can have the hands on experience whilst mixing. I’m not sure what to do now:) I was thinking of the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK which could be considered the best of both worlds, interface and desk. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Signature MTK products. I realise that I would still have the pain of analogue not remembering settings but it just seems so appealing to me. Thanks again :)
I'll always love a good analog desk, purely for the look of amazement on people's faces thinking how hard it must be to learn what all those hundreds of different knobs do ;-) (sometimes I let them in on the secret)
I was thinking about getting a mixer to get rid of latency (especially for drums), but know I'm not too sure. I don't care about impressing people with a mixer with knobs, just having zero latency is really key.
A great and timely post. I agree with you. I've relegated my Mackie CR1604 to basically a headphone mixer! But I'm wondering why you haven't mentioned the "Eurorack" movement that - at least for synth / EDM players - seems to be a revival of analog CV-based instruments and effects...
Well I haven’t mentioned the eurorack thing partly because I’m not a synth player and have little investment in the area, and partly because I don’t think that’s really part of a mixing engineers world any more than any other instrument- it’s brought in by the artist as they want it. It’s interesting certainly, but perhaps warrants a mention in a video about keyboards
That makes perfect sense. I still really want a nice SSL or Never console one day, and I still want to experiment with how different D/A converters play with hardware compressors. But, if that's not going to do it for someone's workflow and studio set up, then why bother?
I think the digital age is great. Other than convenience for pros, it's easy for almost anybody to spend a few hundred dollars and create decent quality music. I honestly don't have an issue with the quality of digital audio. I think music is sounding better and better as the years come.
Great stuff Hope Pole, I am starting a small studio and can not think of a reason to use an outboard desk, all my stuff is Universal Audio, and the pres and plug ins are really nice, I dont need something else in the signal chain creating noises. However, I was thinking of getting a desk just to use for headphone mixes, but even thats a waste of time as the UA stuff comes with a virtual mixer, I can do all my headphone mixes with the software, as you mentioned. Having said that, I still think it would be nice to have a mixer for show, seems crazy, but I may buy a used cheap not working console that looks the business, I can say we used to use it, if anyone asks, crazy idea? I guess you will still hang on th the A &H, even though its not used!?
There's a lot of good reasons for having an analog console. Nowadays almost every studio has the same equipment and sound pretty much the same because of that. All of the vintage consoles sound very different depending on the brand, and they all have some "mojo" to them, even when just passing the signal through without any tweaks eq etc. Soundcraft for warmth and punch, Neve for clarity and detail, and several others for whatever they might add to your sound. Shitty Tascam/Fostex/Mackie/Behringer/Peavey consoles will not do any good. They will rather degrade than enhance the audio quality. All of the "black sidepanel" Soundcrafts from the '80's sound great, and can still be bought cheap. Just make sure the switches aren't worn out and has become intermittent.
Hey man, if i were to build a rig based on the RME RayDat, what else should i get? Will an Octopre paired with it work properly as a small recording rig?
+Hog Blockula good question, depends which Octopre, I use a Mk2 dynamic because I use the outputs to drive my monitors and headphone mixes but if you only need inputs then any of them will do fine. For Preamps I really prefer the Audient ASP800 and 880, but they don’t have discrete DAC outputs so they can’t drive my monitors etc
I been down this same road. From analog recording mid 80's to all digital in the box mixing. Here where I am at with analog. If Im recording live drums then I will pay to go in major studio and use their great rooms, mic pre'a and best compressor and record it all to hard disk. Then the rest is done in a nice home studio that looks more like a mastering studio. Its made to be a great mixing room, instead of trying to be a typical recording studio. The room is professional treated and made to make great mixes. It also have couch, mood lighting, and small bar to keep the creative juices flowing, so the fun factor is still there. I think everything you stated about being in the box a million percent on point. But, people do yourself a favor...give up on getting great drums, and room tones at home. pay for a few hours at a kick ass studio to get that sound, and do rest at home you will get a better result, save thousands in purchasing gear, and still support great studios from going extinct.
All good stuff you provided! I agree. However I have one question and one statement, in which It would be interesting to gain your observation. First the statement; I come from the days of when college classes would offer courses learning to splice tape! Thus I feel I was fortunate, in that I grew up right on the middle of the transition of analog going digital, and having the benefit to experience the best of both worlds. With that being said, there is also a consensus (one that I agree with,) that the birth of Protools and the Internet, was the beginning of the end for music (recording,) industry as many knew it. But perhaps somewhat less obvious, is the sense of "magic" or, the creative emotions a large, well decked out studio could invoke within the clients who walked in. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like once you were in the studio, you transitioned into another world. One the inspired the creative juices. By the huge board, tape decks, racks of gear, thick glass and big comfortable couches. In short, it's "visual" effect. Your thoughts? PS... I'll provide the question upon your reply (this was long enough!) :)
I do think there’s a certain “magic” to the bigger studio feel, still relevant today- but the number of studios that provide that “wow” factor is less every day as the major studios close. I’m finding that smaller studios don’t give people that feeling any more, and it’s up to the engineer/producer to evoke that feeling making the gear slightly irrelevant (unless you can afford the astronomical prices of the bigger places)
Your points are very valid.. Yet.. i find myself working better when committing to a sound (comp/eq) while recording.. I've worked on both domains for a while.. still thw hybrid setup works better in every aspect for me.
If it works for you, keep doing it. This isn’t like a call to action or anything, just a chance to explain why the industry is moving the way it is in general, but individuals can do what’s best in their setup
I think you hit a nail on the head with that now analogue is becoming elitist, simply because in order to compete with digital capability you need vast budgets.
Back in early year 2000, i already keep telling my SAE.edu lecturer ... Soon all track will go fully pure digital and hard disk recording will become a trend and easy for new artist to prepare they demo...(That time we already not using any analog tape at all, but a Mackie D8B and ADAT VHS digital audio tape)
I saw a video on "How to choose your Mixing Desk" a few days ago. I was like... I use a AD/DA + Ampbank + (wish I had a lil bit of 500 gear for mastering)... But that really is just because in some regards it really sounds that bit better to me. And that is opinion based and there lot´s of people that make stuff way better then me without anything of that sort Correction: I feel like I am better with it because I don´t have any visual feedback besides gain staging and it feels faster to work to that way to me
Yep. I’m still considering upgrading to a modern desk, but it’s really about luxury and a little bit of convenience in big tracking sessions, and not an absolute necessity, unlike in the tape era
Digital is indeed amazing! It's a good time to live in! 😁 I combine the "digital world" with a few outboards in my home studio but plugins and VSTs are good enough imo.
If I would be not so lazy as I am and could afford space and serious analog desk and other analog stuff will never use anything digital. will only have to convert to digital after all is done only.
Analog desk only makes sense if you are tracking to me. In terms of speed, some MCU or things such as the S3 would by way more efficient in both workflow and your pocket.
Analog gear will continue to have a place in studios worldwide. Cause they will continue to bring spice to the table. It's the studio paradigm that will continue to evolve into the hybrid mindset and the compact configuration. Great converters, great software and great analogue modules (transducers and acoustics should be included). But the cool thing about the digital domain is that if you can't afford the analog circuits you can still complete the productions and with equally good results . I agree that the mixing desks will be less common. The companies already know that and they are moving there. Big studios will continue to be around... for a while.
I would love to use an analog desk not cos of sound (of course neves and ssls sound great though) but cos of speed when recording or mixing. Maybe cos I do alot of live stuff but I am so much faster and better mixing on a desk as I can change all channels at once. If there is a better hybrid system with a desk and a daw (basically a digital live mixer but with your daw not it's own firmware) that would be syk
From an electronics perspective, it's much easier to make a large digital desk than an analogue one. A digital desk has minimal analogue parts allowing them to be kept away from noise sources. An analogue desk is analogue everywhere and keeping signals clean is a large part of the design. This is reflected in the high purchase price and maintenance cost.
Some good points made. I still have my A&H gl2200 in case I need it. But its not hooked up. All of my analog gear is still in the rack, if I need it its there. But most of the work I do is inside the box these days. Gone are the days for this kind of recording you say? Maybe! When i got that perfect take ITB, and my computer crashed, or a session file got corrupted and i can't open it, I am glad that I still tracks with my Alesis HD 24, my Allen and Heath gl2200 and analog gear. If recall is needed, reset the board and go. Many no. 1 hits were made this way. That "noise" you refer to, people pay a lot of money to get that sound. Why use a plugin when I got the real thing. I may insert them into the board from time to time though. Thats why I very seldom listen to today's music. It sounds thin and boring because all the life has been sucked out of it digitally. Peace.
As much as i love the look of a console, why not just route from the DAW thru a converter unit out to hardware and back in? Then you still have the flexibility of using outboard gear (compressors still sound better OTB to my ears) and can have as many buss groups as you need within your DAW. I use Mixbus 5 and I have to say, I like the sound built into it. It is almost like you have a really good "analog" plugin built into the software. Also, the routing and flow is similar to how you would work on a console. With most people going to external preamps and select hardware gear, it almost seems like hybrid or ITB is the way forward. That said, the console does look so bad ass. The way around it for me was just to pick up a Presonus faderport. Kinda of gives you a touch of authenticity without feeling like you are selling your soul. At the end of the day though, back to back you might notice a diff between analog and digital but on it's own, a good mix will just sound good to the person listening to it.
How is it laziness if I can now record faster with better results? Who does the extra toil (and dealing with less-than-amazing preamps) benefit? And why does everyone want the desk???
It's laziness because you spend less time on source (I assume based on what you were saying in the video) I think "better results" are completely subjective, muddy lo-fi sound against clean noise free sound, is like comparing Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles to Transcendence - Devin Townsend. The Majority of Beatles albums are noisy messy and muddy, but very characteristic, because they spent a lot of time on source, and the opposite is true of many modern acts such as Devin Townsend, clean and often empty. I agree and I am well aware that in the box is a quicker work flow, but in my opinion it makes way to be lazier, when you can edit a track in nearly anyway you want afterwards, with little consequence. Where as a more analogue solution requires more time and less laziness to get the results up front getting a great source, with outboard effects etc. it is a harder work flow and requires more time but often more rewarding and focused, and definitely less lazy, as its way more work. My apologies if I have offended you, but I just don't agree with the thought process or way of approaching recording. Source will always be king, and I assume you still spend time on source, but definitely not as much as you would have to, with your setup now as opposed to back then. I also think everyone wants the desk because that desk is a great desk. GL's are beasts.
Excellent video, thank you! I have never been more than an amateur and never will be. I think that the technology brings us the right way, not the opposite. To say that digital makes loss in sound quality is just not true, but yet again just proves the point that skills trumps gear anytime. I would rather have a knowledgeable producer on a tape recorder than a newbie on a world class console. Yes, computers make a change also in the music business - but what change? You can do better things on less - and cheaper equipment which leaves more room for creativity. Looking back what we could have done if we had today's technology when me and my mates 'set out to rule the world' some 25 years ago ... Well we probably would not have come much further in doing that, but all the time we could have used to be creative instead of struggling with equipment and gear ...
Well done. Too many people live in the past, and sadly clients are especially good at that when they want to see big desks and outboard equipment. You have to educate them, updating them from methods decades ago.
I don't want to be negative about your comments, but this guys are sponsored by plugins brand, they need to say that they are mixing in the laptop that is logic, maybe not for you, but I can confident if this guys have plugins under their names, is like Chris lord saying, change your mixes mixing with my mix hub and everyone knows like he mix in his SSL, and me, as an artist, wants the warmth sound of the analog mixes. I started mixing in the box, and I am agree with you about the recalling, but mix the same song in the box and out or with plugins is different. Some plugins can do some stuff that the hardware can't do, I know that, but say I mixed for Beyonce in my laptop sound like convenient.
Grammy winners like Michael Brauer and Andrew Scheps mix in their computers now. And Beyoncé and other big artists happily pay them because they get results, and they don’t care how the results are achieved as long as it sounds right
Analog distortion is way better than digital. And thats a big part on compression. Not everything has to be neve level to sound great. Klark Teknik makes AMAZING products, and their older stuff is impressive
That’s why you don’t use digital distortion, you use super clean conversion and then analog emulations (which are pretty damn accurate now). KT is good stuff, but wouldn’t have a place in a modern hybrid workflow
I couldn't tell what the hissing noise was in this video until I turned it up REALLY loud and realized it was a metal track playing in the background. Not the best mixing ratio there IMO.
Indeed, cheapo desks are out. But.... Big classic analogs are IN! In fact, my studio now generates most of my income these days BECAUSE OF THE BIG MCI DESK and High class outboard.
It’s in service in my studio, so it’s a studio desk... also “character” was never something desk makers were aiming for- it’s just a byproduct of the architecture available to the designers!
@@adamsteelproducer Nope, it's a desk designed primarily for live application, used in the studio, and in all honesty it's better going ITB, than using this desk... But having a well maintained oldschool Soundcrafts and similar studio desks, if u talk about budget options, that's a different story...
Well, it only took me five years after you to put aside my well-loved Tascam 24 track Digital Portastudio in favor of Reaper, something I swore never to do. I even used, God help me, pitch correction. I’m going straight to hell.
Haha time affects us all! I’m not completely anti-console, but unless something truly world class comes around at a sane price, it’s just not worth the hassle now :)
I'm making fire beats with a Roland JD-XI right now, and it is a stand alone synth/drum machine. Check out what I can do with just this one stand alone machine. I haven't even got to where I own a board like this, and when I do, I am never using a computer or software again. These stand alones and hardware equipment may be dead to others, but I am going to bring them back like Lazarus from what people say is dead. These stand alone machines are fully alive, people just don't want to dive and dig deep into them is the problem. I'm telling y'all, I'm gonna make history with the Roland JD-XI synth/drum machine. Then, when I get the money, it's on to the next stand alone machine. I'm COMING...SBN
As for the "next thing" or the future beyond the current digital transformation, I think we still have a long way to go before we see what's possible. I think the A2D conversions will get closer to the source in response to demand for eliminating links between source and digital desk. Let's be honest, the engineering industry isn't what it was, not even close. And in this market, the fastest studios are the most efficiently tooled/setup and thus also the most profitable. If quality converters can be outfitted at the Mic/Line source itself, then the time to route cables and mount mics will be vastly improved, and will also allow pushing the noise floor even lower. Current wireless tech isn't there, but it will be soon. Also, I think it's going to become easier and easier to run your audio processing in a server/client relationship and to engineer from client devices. This will be mandatory as the existing idea of monitors, screens, and keyboards go away. The traditional computer keyboard will be a legacy item in 40 years, and the audio engineering industry will move along the same direction.
I’m not a fan of tape hiss, but machines with Dolby are expensive to say the least and extra maintenance work, because if the Bias is off even the slightest then its exaggerated by the compander circuit. It’s not that quiet though, pink floyd’s dark side of the moon used Dolby A, and the start of Time is very noisy
That could be due to several ping-pong mixdowns, to make room for the rest of the tracks in the song. If you don't exceed the 24 tracks, the noise are near inaudible compared to the signal recorded. But, I record mostly rock music, so the noise floor gets far below the instruments anyway.. I had a little hiss before buying the Dolbyrack, but it was still usable as long as you push the tracks to the max before saturation. Another analog tape-trick is to boost treble during recording, and cut it back during playback. (Take notes of freq/dB when doing this.) Got the 24ch Dolby on Ebay for about $800. That ain't too bad.
Agree that the cheap consoles of of the late 1990's, early 2000's were crap! With that said, when recording a rock or metal project I still use a real console (Audient), Neve mic pre's, API mic pre's and several others. Also high end microphones. Even though I am recording to digital and not my studer A80, I still want the warmest, punchiest sound I can get! I know you can do a lot in post with DAWS, but using the gear I am talking about there is a noticeable difference. Thats all for now.
Agree with all of that- but consider that if those Pres were in a rack rather than spread out across a desk, would they sound any different? That’s kind of what I was getting at- a lot of the functionality of a big desk (routing etc) is easily done in the box now, so as long as the important part (the pres) is kept, for a lot of people the expense of the larger format makes no sense
@@adamsteelproducer Understood. but sometimes it is still nice to mix on a console. Like a hybrid mix. Bring stems up on channel and process in the daw and out in the analog world. There is something special about that. Recall sucks, but you can always print what you did analog. Anyway, cool videos! I dig your channel! Peace!
I agree put the analog at the bottom of the ocean and make a great reef.... I do 100% digital and not have a problem... Focal and room treatment more important.... IF YOU CAN'T HEAR IT YOU CAN'T FIX IT.....
@@adamsteelproducer I guess but you could leave the faders all at unity. Then you would just need to worry about what's on your auxiliaries. Or EQ if you don't simply use that the same way. Then you would just be warming up the signal. But yeah I can see why you've gone all out in the box. Best of luck with the studio dude.
It just gets me... at the end of the day you are listening to a digital audio wave file. So these dudes that are saying Oooh wooow gotta have that ANALOG stuff to get a that warm smooth analog sound. Eh... I think that's BS. Hardware seems more like a workflow choice. Sometimes people want to turn knobs and touch shit. Wanting a specific color and using the innate sound specific hardware? Sure that happens. (But I think it is theoretically possible to get that sound ITB if you're good enough and have plugins that are worth a damn.) Mostly, I think it's a placebo effect.
Two 500 Series BAE 1073 + Neve 535 + Pultec EQP500X for guitar mics, that's my plan, I am the complete opposite I hate software. I just built my own ISO Cab based on Grossman design loaded with a Red Back so I can re amp real amps. I can't stand software amps, anything without a tube is disgusting to me. My main issue is I have been playing with this mouse for 25 years and I'm sick of it! I need real switches and knobs, I don't care if it's expensive, it might take me 10 years but it's gonna happen. Software now till I can get hardware, that's the plan, hell by the time I get it all built I should be an expert😁. I'm using hybrid of UAD other stuff and looking to get the FABfilter Mastering suite currently, I have an ASP 800 also for my Audix drum mics (Killer Mics) and an Apollo X8P. SM57, MD 421 guitars and SE 2200a vocal mic. I have a bunch of Native Instruments stuff also, Machine 2, a Keyboard and the ultimate suite upgraded last year. I like their stuff.
only thing i'd add to the discussion (i think eyal levi mentioned it on his podcast). From an outside perspective, having a mixing desk says to a potential client "this guy means business". I'm not saying anyone should buy a mixing desk to impress clients, but if you already have one, that's a strong reason not to get rid of it.
As stupid as it sounds, it is true haha
+Hog Blockula it’s true in a way. Just this week I had a band come In the studio that were impressed by the desk, near the end of the 3 day session they were very happy with the sound- I told them I hadn’t used the desk at all and they weren’t bothered, because they were already getting the results they wanted
Thanks you also Hog for your reply. Please see my following question to Eyal.
generally i agree but i wonder if having 3 or 4 large format vid monitors up with 48 or so channels of faders and dancing meters spread across them behind some particularly appealing guis of plugins (maybe a spectrum analyzer for example) might have the same effect...and possibly a more direct line to the younger potential clients?
as well as inspiration for the engineers (us) who have to sit in the seat and manipulate all the stuff on the screen and more, i have to admit that i would miss walking into a studio and seeing all the implements of destruction available to me ;-)
Instablaster.
In your position as running a recording studio on tight budget you are probably doing the right thing and it will continue going down that path.
The DAWs and plugins do a great job, even to the point of making stuff appear "warm" if so desired.
So, essentially, what customers are paying for is your expertise.
But as a recording artist, I have found the digital world becoming more and more consuming, less helping me being creative.
My experience is that digital gets "old" as well and calls for "maintenance" ... i.e. upgrades, interfaces being dropped, cheap components crapping out, crazy bulks of data, ... It does not age gracefully!
I have a park of digital gear that does not connect to any OS any longer. It's the most pathetic stuff, dead and useless ... and then I pull out a 40 year old synth ... and find myself making music!
Also, the limit of, say, the "magical" 24 tracks ... I found myself wasting tons of time on all the optional "haven't decided" tracks and alternative takes in the box. Mixing down projects with 140 tracks (or more) ... Total recall can easily get defeated by such complexity.
Just thinking of having spent that time on practicing instruments ... No alternative takes, no editing on sample level, instead, strong statements ... I think you get it.
So there's two things I believe may remain assets to some folks:
1. Limits can challenge creativity ... that's independent of any technology ... but the "old stuff" happens to bring along dedicated ergonomics instead of "OPTIONS".
2. Gear that is married to software and operating systems turns to wasteful garbage. Nobody will repair or reactivate that stuff. And I would wish for "prosumers" to state a strong NO to such developments. This is an issue of valuable resources.
As a recording artist I think I shall continue to tolerate that hiss and cultivate my skills at meeting the challenges.
But I get your point:
In your position I wouldn't bother with semi-impressive analog technology if I were making my living from renting out studio space and services. The DAWs get the job done for sure and will get even better at that.
I appreciate your thoughts and your statement.
Latency is there and is audible. Many musicians heard it. When I switch to an aux from the desk the musicians like it much more.
There are loads of interfaces with direct monitoring....
@@Strepite I use The UR824 From Steinberg, it gets that out of the way.
It's nice to hear your thoughts on this. As a hobbyist running a (bottom the line) laptop based setup, I have no choice but to do everything in the box. It's nice to know I can still get good sound in the digital realm.
CLA - Talking about why he uses analog (25:20 = interesting comparison video to you) - ua-cam.com/video/81MKsU1CIAk/v-deo.html
Great videos and a wonderfully sincere delivery. Keep up the great work.
It's 2020 what's in my studio. I use a dedicated preamp, an outboard compressor just for light compression on vocals, drum machine, a couple midi keyboards, audient ID 14 and everything else is inside the DAW. I know mixers are still around but I haven't walked into someone's studio and seen one in use for quite some time.
I like to gain stage on my Soundcraft Spirit Studio 16. I use the preamp in the mixer for my mic. I use the mixer to monitor my PC analog out on headphones. I record for later mixing from my PC out to my hardware effects and then into channels on my mixer. There are so many ways to gain stage through my Soundcraft to get the headroom I want. The mixer has been modded by me new capacitors on 6 channel strips and three group channels and the entire output channel. I love my RME sound card and my software but I don't think digital has surpassed my love for the analog side of my gear.
Analog is home to me. It’s the only way I’ll record. Easier to mix right at the board to get the “base” sound faster and do final tweaking within the daw of choice. Blending mics feels better to me, and honestly, the nostalgia gets me. Whether latency is an issue or not, we as human beings will never be perfect and I will never attempt to. Therefore, if I screw up, I’ll either keep it in the mix or re record it. I want to sound like I play it. Not like I hired a robot to sound “flawless.” And I definitely don’t see it being out of “fashion” either anytime soon. Great vid bro.
Mixing desks or analog gear in general, aren't technically necessary today. However, that doesn't mean analog gear and mixing desks don't have a use in 2017. I've been recording and producing music for 10 years now and I've learned a lot in that time. And in that time I've learned that the gear only makes half of the results. Not any amount of gear at any price can fix bad recording and mixing technique. I've noticed a lot of musicians who start recording for themselves often do not take the time to learn the craft. Much like with any instrument, it takes time to learn and develop proper techniques to produce the best sound possible. So what I see that happens, is that people will go buy a bunch of uneccasary (mixer) mediocre gear, new, used or both and expect to produce top notch recordings. So if you use a cheap mixer with cheap mics connected with cheap cables going into a cheap interface monitoring with cheap speakers, and used bad technique through all that, the results will suffer. To start, less is more until better gear can be aquired. Some people learn that from the start, or eventually learn that they can produce better results with a mid grade interface and some plugin packs. But then they keep themselves trapped in the digital realm. I'm in the process of planning a hybrid mixing setup utilizing a vintage small format mixing desk for mix down. While it won't be used that way for everything, I will have more flexibility in my work flow vs mixing exclusively itb. Then eventually, I want to aquire a few good preamps and a compressor or two. I like the tactile hands on approach to mixing vs clicking a mouse for hours. Also, for me, doing everything inside the daw ruins my creativity. So the short and skinny of all this is yes. A worthy well maintained mixer can still be used for modern day productions effectively.
I'd tend to agree with this - talking from a home-studioist/artist point of view. seems to me that the better the analog side of a vocal or analog instrument track is, before entering the box, the greater mix you'll be able to get with the fewer "software-driven" effects (requiring more CPU resources). Besides, if you EVER think you might have to present your work in live conditions, you'll have your whole analog side with you (that you're used to "acoustically" speaking) much more easily and naturally than getting your laptop/computer on stage + having to find a way to control it while you're playing... huh, huh... forget it. :) I know a few dudes did that, like McLaughling for example, but always only one guitar at a time, and he doesn't sing. So, I'd advise to move everything related to your "personal tonal touch" in the analog-side (finding "your" mic, "your" amp, "your" overdrive, compressor, ...), and using the software part of your DAW essentially to properly blend every track together, with the less "correction-driven" applied plugins, and more of a mastering approach towards the making of an "overall style" of production (in a well-thought-through mixing template you use systematically).
In this perspective, I found the principle of combining mixers with an USB Audio interface (like the Alto Live 802 thingy for ex.) was going into the right direction (for a dude at my level in any case), would you have something to say about those...?
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing your thaughts.
In your position i could understant.
But as far as i’m consern for my home studio i’m just started, i’m not looking for the cleanest sound possible. I’ve got vintage amps and guitar, i want that sound shore may be not perfect in some opinions, but with caracter. I’m not sure my bad english translate correctly what i mean.
So, since this video, no use Of the analog desk or the tape machine ?
Analog above all, im sorry. I have waves, uad and plug-in alliance... But my analog gear (emulated by plug-in) Is different. I have la2a, 1176 and a lot more. I have a/b with preamp emulation against plugins... The difference between a real 1073 and the uad emulation is between day and night.
its been 5years and big board are still here and strong!
Thank you For this Video; right now I'm All in the box, but I've decided to get some outboard gear : A Pré amp through which i can run vocals, Stringed instruments, bass, guitar. and a bus compressor for my stereo bus. and a Qcon icon control surface. I was thinking of getting an analog mixer for summing but I there's no way i can live without recall, I go through many mixed of many different projects everyday, so it didn't make sense to me to get an analog mixer for my workflow.
Could you recommend a audio interface in replacement for my desks i need 16 inputs , also i like to hard pan my outboard fx on the desk and eq how to do in a audio interface. Dungeon keeper 2 for me ;)
en.antelopeaudio.com/products/goliath-hd/
10:52 - Prism Atlas (on sale June 2018): AD/DA Conversion is amazing. Ultra lifelike. Pre-amps are very good. Telefunken v76 into the Prism Atlas is the best.
So what’s your realistic dream setup? A 1073, maybe some other analog modules with a higher quality converter? Or get stereo pair of slate mics and call it a day?
+s good question, the goalposts are moving all the time in my mind. I’m going to get a slate mic soon, see how good they are (having used U87s into 1073s, if it’s even close I’ll be happy) and if they’re really that good I’ll be going down that route for sure
There is no need for coloured preamps anymore, you can get all the colour you need later in the box...but there is a need for the kind of reactive relationship the mic and preamp have on each other...I don't know, it could take a while til a digital preamp can achieve that
just use a impendance matching box between mic and preamp
I think you made 100 percent valid points. The only way to compete with studios like ocean way, blackbird, air studios and so forth, is to build a million dollar pro studio which 99 percent of us cannot afford so digital with a decent DAW and plugins are winning the race for 99 percent of people
I prefer analog. Sounds smoother. Storage however in digital.
ALL ANALOG ENDS UP DIGITAL , SO ITS REDUNDANT MATE
These days VSTs sound as smooth as analog.
@@davehalt1806 yes and no. going through analog gets much different sound stamp than staying digital all the way through. you can definately get pretty close to analog when in the digital domain, but it requires a lot less work and tweaks which at the end my not be so pleasant workflow wise, to some.
Everything is falling out of use, thanks to the computer. The more things you can do with software, the less you need actual physical gear. It's just more convenient to do everything on the computer.
BUT - In music, there's a serious quality loss with digital. So even if going "all digital" and "do everything in the box" is more convenient, the trade off is poor sound quality compared to for instance, analog tape - especially when recording acoustics.
The computer is making a lot of professions, and physical objects obsolete.
Companies have gone out of business because their hardware was no longer as convenient to use as software. Because people tend to prefer convenient over quality. And since most people are happy with software & plugin sound quality, there's no point making hardware anymore...
So yeah... while digital is easy and convenient, it takes the life, the "soul" out of the sound.
Just a shame people are not thriving to get a better and better sound today, instead it's more about getting things done quicker, cheaper, easier, more conveniently = turn to the computer. Even if that means losing quality.
+Purity generally speaking, I disagree with your assessment. I agree that a lot of mixes sound more “separate”, but this is down to choices from the mix engineers rather than the equipment they use. Generally younger engineers (the more “digital” ones) make more surgical EQ choices where the older ones with the analog mindsets make broader ones- I’ve heard very separated mixes on analog tape, and very glued mixes on completely digital systems, it’s very much up to the choices made at each stage more than the storage mediums
I don’t agree at all because tapes don’t have soul either if the musician sucks. If you have skills you can make anything sound good.
People are trying to get things done quicker, cheaper, and easier because of capitalism. Systemic effects on human behavior due to the dominant economic forces as structured by the governmental apparatus, have been studied in depth in both the psychological and sociological fields.
Mixers and producers ARE striving to get a better sound all the time. But not by becoming broke to endow a business owner's pocket.
Ptr If I look at television sets, the newer analog generation was always better than the previous one. Digital became a huge improvement over analog. More than price and weight, the lack of quality was what killed analog.
Well Hello 2021. Analog Summing is gaining search hits.
It’s funny I find the opposite. Starting from all digital to buying analog gear made a world of difference! From a sharp 2d sound to easily making it a warm 3D pleasant sound. If analog was dying and digital is the new way forward than hardware wouldn’t be made anymore and people wouldn’t be buying it, plug in companies would make software to try and emulate it and if these famous engineers were really going all digital than they would of sold all their hardware already while they can get top dollar for it. Now I will say there is a huge difference between the sound of a SSL desk and a Eurodesk. A hybrid system with good hardware is the way to go, all digital will take you hours upon hours to get a mix up to industry standards. Going through a good hardware channel strip will sound 100x better than however many numerous eq and compressor plugins you can add to it. Than also bogging down your cpu and dealing with it freezing and glitching cause you have 200 different plugins running at once.
Back in the day, I'm pretty sure pre-amping was quite expensive for each Channel Recording, and most of the time due to a tight budget, the results wouldn't be as Sick as they are today haha, but still averagely great for it's time! :)
But when It came to Listening to Enter Sandman on the Tape Deck through a Raw Bass HiFi System, God... It sounds so Raw and Heavy with that Classic Low Filter!!!! ;D
But I'll be quite honest, old recording equipment gear is very Idolistic for that Classic Home Entertainment feeling we all Loved growing up!
Old equipment can be very useful for recording today, especially if you want that Retro Vibe to it, if you get me! :)
Can you make an authentic 70's vibe using plugins ? Are the sound similar ?
Have you ever used urei 1176 compressor and neve console to compare them with plugins ?
thanks for the vid, I enjoyed a lot !
I have indeed, I’ve used 1176 silver and black faces, 1178 stereo units, neve VR and 5088 consoles, and the Slate versions of the 1073 and 1176 are so close it’s almost Indistinguishable - so long as everything is set the same. In the analog world we naturally don’t push things as hard- in digital it’s easy to be tempted to push more “character” and distortion from a plugin, which is when people start saying they sound nothing alike. Of course, without having the real units in the studio it’s all just opinion, but there are Grammy winning mix engineers moving onto the Slate plugins, so it must be close enough!
alexandre diakhate I have used Neve consoles as well as SSL to name a few. Desks are amazing. But high quality plugins/as long as the chain going into the daw is world class it's game on :)
As always, great video! However, one thing to keep in mind, which I'm sure you probably already know but you didn't talk about, is that plugging a line level signal into both the Focusrite and Audient unit DOES NOT bypass the internal amplifiers. You will definitely get more noise doing this, with both of those units, because you're essentially plugging a mic preamp into another mic preamp. To get the best AD/DA performance with external pres you need an interface who's line input that completely bypasses the preamp. If your gain knob on your interface affects how loud your line in signal is, don't use it.
Death of analog mixing desk? Sorry to say, but this mindset speaks about the difference between you and CLA (for example)
CLA has a near unlimited budget and already has all the gear. This video is a discussion about those of us who aren’t immortal with enough assistants to keep the desks running
Chris Lord Alge, one of the most famous mixing engineers of our time
I'm a guitarist who only dabbles in producing and mixing. But I kinda grew up digitally and I really don't see the point these days in having unpractical, heavy analog gear... I think there are a few factors at work here.
- There's a simple one: People that invested thousands in analog gear won't throw that out the window for a 200£ multieffects box, even if the quality is exactly the same.
- There was a time (~2000-2010) when it was possible to do everything digital but the quality just wasn't there. That time has passed. You can have amazing quality with pure digital gear and software and it's almost always cheaper and easier to handle.
- In the guitar world the war has been between analog pedalboards and huge amps and amp modelers and digital effects boards. These days you can get amp models, cabinet simulation and every guitar effect that ever was, all in a compact and lightweight box that will produce amazing sound quality. I mean of course Angus Young (AC/DC) won't stop using his Marshall stacks that get shipped around in trucks :D but for the regular professional musician there is just no reason anymore to kill our backs carrying heavy gear and spending hours setting everything up.
- And that leads me to my next point: TIME&Money. It takes me literally 5min to set up my gear. It always sounds the same and it always sounds good. When I see those pedal boards with 20 seperate boxes, 100 cables, tiny knobs everywhere and hacks to get the bpm synced it just gives me a headache :D so much stuff that can go wrong. Same goes for recording. I have a simple Mackie interface and a simple DAW (stagelight) and I can produce high quality tracks and demos basically anywhere with little effort :)
--> It's truly a joy to be a musician these days from that point of view :)
Some non professional recording studio, owned by musicians, go the other way. They don't have the constraint of productivity and actually enjoy the flexibility of a mixing desk. It is not just for the "analog sound", which is most of a myth, but for the simplicity and the intuitive aspect of a well design mixer. I went from a Mackie 1642 to an Onyx 24.4 and I am delighted with the convenience of it. But I do understand why professional recording facilities got on with the digital technology.
I feel like I know you man! (I'm trying to sound American. lol). You seem like a cool guy to work with and you explained the future of recording studios perfectly and why the computer age has done away with hardware; you summed it all up with hands-on knowledge that's a million times better than reading about it all in a book. Well done :))
I'm using a USB 2.0 interface and I am at 5 ms. So latency has nothing to do with the interface.
I think analogoue is not going anywhere. The old technology is needed to get any usable signal into the digital system.
Take it you've never heard of bluetooth guitars then?
Say what you want but in my experience the clients like to see a proper mixing desk with flashing led's and meter dials in the studio, the bigger the better , i only use it for headphone mixes and for sound distribution/routing. Clients are happy so i'm happy too!!
These are all issues that had me abandon analog workflow many years ago. I have come full circle though since I have long standing experience repairing gear I took the plunge on a 24 channel amr desk that was about 25 grand new when it popped up used for $300.
Repaired 4 matching interfaces that can daisy chain without the need for asio4all and now I got 24 channel strips, and a total of 40x40 I/O and a console that can have 56 inputs at mixdown.
Sending master section to Jim Williams at the start of 2023, have FX units for all 4 stereo sends, 10 channels of Swiss army comps, and am finishing up my master bus chain and I run hybrid with reaper and am mixing much faster than I did with a mouse, and my noise floor is incredibly low for this kind of setup (about 96db of dynamic range if I am fully utilizing the console, much lower if I am not)
I don't worry much about recall because with reinsert I can record each channel post eq and fader and save it as a second take for my sessions as well as my busses and fx to send back at unity with no eq later for channels and just recall my mix bus.
Sounds great! And really does follow the logic of “if it’s good enough to add something” if you’re prepared to spend days replacing caps 😂
@@adamsteelproducer yeah, I have about 26u if gear and half of the stuff needed recaps and the rest severe Cleaning. I had the time to pull the master section and all 36 slots from the frame to recondition when I got hit by a car and was unable to work for a couple months.
Research is important because before I bought the console I looked at design and if you can believe it, it was pragmatically designed and every cap I checked was still within spec despite the console being made in 1993! I got stupid lucky haha just needed lots of pot cleaning and dirt scrubbed off.
All that's left is a few vu meters add noise to the signal but I've been too lazy and just unhooked the offending meters from their channels haha.
I would never go for a used console that isn't modular with an external PSU these days because all the maintenance nightmares I have had helping friends with those style. When a console is fully modular and takes 3 people to lift, it was never intended as a "budget" piece so with elbow grease you can really get something cool.
I found the first owners contact info in the master section via a sticker and talked with him, console recorded and mixed the first bloodhound gang record so it's got a gold record under it's belt, which really validated my journey.
An analogoue desk can still be used in any studio, you don't have to use one for mixing, that you do in the box. A mixer can be used for headphone mixes, as a massive and versatile patchbay, you can also use the desk for monitor distribution. I could give more examples but one of the big ones is that clients love mixing desks,flashy leds and sliders!! There some nice mixers out there on the cheap that have nice preamps so that's a plus!!
Sorry for the unrelated question. What speakers stand behind you? They look like pair of NS-10s but the inscription is incorrect.
i suppose a lot of people want to mimic what they love- the sounds of yesterday. Plugging your guitar into an app called ''fender twin reverb'' is better to save ,space , money and time but wont get you an accurate sound of an amp. it's good that we have both options,.( i know this isnt exactly what the video is about ,but its a just another thought on physical vs digital )
iT's a huge thread, i think.
I agree with you, mostly. Nowadays we can record with the clarity and dynamic range that were almost impossible to achieve up until 10/15 years ago, and we ALL should make the most of this huge opportunity we have instead of following nostalgic trends. Digital audio resolution has gone way beyond our listening capabilities, that0s the main point...
Even cheap audio interfaces today boost huge dynamic range and impressive s/n ratio, arguably leading us to record clean, shiny digital, noiseless and soulless tracks, and so we NEED to ADD that analog warmth to our sounds AFTER recording.
That's where 2-BUSS analog processing as well as analog summing definitely makes sense and comes in handy.
I guess you are right, but...
I just bought a Tascam model 24 and are currently finding ways to implement it into my work flow. The reason is that I am so tired of only working only in the box - witch I have done forever.
I just miss the tactile quality of it all and started too long for a place where I actually have to make decisions at the source. I am also tired of dealing with 2 million ways to treat a recorded piece in post. It is a bit like buying a camera that can handle ISO 76000.
But as I said at the top, I guess you are right. Just take the argument, besides the ones you present, of who gets too record, mix and produce today, the industry is much more democratic now.
You said the Raydat video is in the description below and I don't see anything. Thanks for the talk though.
Updated! I blame the squirrels.
I’ve just gotten back into recording after a period away and have watched a few of your videos recently and have found them extremely good and informative. Following a comment you made about Manchester I’ve just looked up your studio. You live about 6 miles away . (I’m in bramhall 😂😂) anyway keep up the good work. I’ve just bought a qcon pro x and just can’t force myself to try and use it rather than the keyboard and mouse. I use Reaper and every controller is compromised trying to be all things to all men. Why bother taking time to map all your plug ins and Wade through 10 clicks to bring them onto your controller when you can do it within seconds on a mouse. New controller manufacturers have to work exclusively with 1 DAW so the workflow is obvious, easy, straightforward and works. Still love the old huge desks though, they just ooze excitement. All the best, Steve
Thx. So to get all digital, what do you need??
Well to go “all digital”, you would need digital microphones, Neumann make some. But for what I meant, you need good clean preamps, good AD conversion, and something like the Slate Everything Bundle so you have access to compressors, EQ, good reverb and delay to replace all the outboard you would have used
Wow BBC's that's taking me back a long way
I should watch this video everytime I'm tempted to buy a console that I don't need at all😅
Even though not necessary, they are def. inspiring. I would say spend your cash on external hardware instead but then the console loving whore in me who also periodically looks at Reverb wants to know what you have in mind? I find the greatest limiting factor is not enough group busses. I would want 8
I am still learning digital Live sound reinforcement. I Agree with you especially when you commented on the fact that you would need 10 different compressors for the drums (lets say) Digital offers so much more freedom to control the signal per channel and add specific EQ & Compressor settings per channel. I have had an Analog mixer for live sound for over 30 years and I am still learning I purchased my first Digital console last Febuary and wow do I need someone to help me get the most out of my Digital board. Peace ChrisP
By the time you can finally afford to use and afford Mixing Consoles is the day you've already mastered mixing on the box
Thanks for an interesting video. Ahh man, and here was me just about to buy a new desk so I can have the hands on experience whilst mixing. I’m not sure what to do now:)
I was thinking of the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK which could be considered the best of both worlds, interface and desk.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the Signature MTK products.
I realise that I would still have the pain of analogue not remembering settings but it just seems so appealing to me.
Thanks again :)
Very good outlook. We use the gear we have. Thanks for sharing well thought out views.
I'll always love a good analog desk, purely for the look of amazement on people's faces thinking how hard it must be to learn what all those hundreds of different knobs do ;-) (sometimes I let them in on the secret)
I was thinking about getting a mixer to get rid of latency (especially for drums), but know I'm not too sure. I don't care about impressing people with a mixer with knobs, just having zero latency is really key.
A great and timely post. I agree with you. I've relegated my Mackie CR1604 to basically a headphone mixer! But I'm wondering why you haven't mentioned the "Eurorack" movement that - at least for synth / EDM players - seems to be a revival of analog CV-based instruments and effects...
Well I haven’t mentioned the eurorack thing partly because I’m not a synth player and have little investment in the area, and partly because I don’t think that’s really part of a mixing engineers world any more than any other instrument- it’s brought in by the artist as they want it. It’s interesting certainly, but perhaps warrants a mention in a video about keyboards
Good answer!
That makes perfect sense. I still really want a nice SSL or Never console one day, and I still want to experiment with how different D/A converters play with hardware compressors. But, if that's not going to do it for someone's workflow and studio set up, then why bother?
Yesss... a "Never" console is what you can get for cheap... 😄😄😄
@@biula3278 Lol. I have a Never console right now!
I think the digital age is great. Other than convenience for pros, it's easy for almost anybody to spend a few hundred dollars and create decent quality music. I honestly don't have an issue with the quality of digital audio. I think music is sounding better and better as the years come.
Agreed but not the music per se but the "mixes"
Great stuff Hope Pole, I am starting a small studio and can not think of a reason to use an outboard desk, all my stuff is Universal Audio, and the pres and plug ins are really nice, I dont need something else in the signal chain creating noises. However, I was thinking of getting a desk just to use for headphone mixes, but even thats a waste of time as the UA stuff comes with a virtual mixer, I can do all my headphone mixes with the software, as you mentioned.
Having said that, I still think it would be nice to have a mixer for show, seems crazy, but I may buy a used cheap not working console that looks the business, I can say we used to use it, if anyone asks, crazy idea? I guess you will still hang on th the A &H, even though its not used!?
I agree with you bro
There's a lot of good reasons for having an analog console.
Nowadays almost every studio has the same equipment and sound pretty much the same because of that. All of the vintage consoles sound very different depending on the brand, and they all have some "mojo" to them, even when just passing the signal through without any tweaks eq etc. Soundcraft for warmth and punch, Neve for clarity and detail, and several others for whatever they might add to your sound. Shitty Tascam/Fostex/Mackie/Behringer/Peavey consoles will not do any good. They will rather degrade than enhance the audio quality. All of the "black sidepanel" Soundcrafts from the '80's sound great, and can still be bought cheap. Just make sure the switches aren't worn out and has become intermittent.
Hey man, if i were to build a rig based on the RME RayDat, what else should i get? Will an Octopre paired with it work properly as a small recording rig?
+Hog Blockula good question, depends which Octopre, I use a Mk2 dynamic because I use the outputs to drive my monitors and headphone mixes but if you only need inputs then any of them will do fine. For Preamps I really prefer the Audient ASP800 and 880, but they don’t have discrete DAC outputs so they can’t drive my monitors etc
I been down this same road. From analog recording mid 80's to all digital in the box mixing. Here where I am at with analog. If Im recording live drums then I will pay to go in major studio and use their great rooms, mic pre'a and best compressor and record it all to hard disk. Then the rest is done in a nice home studio that looks more like a mastering studio. Its made to be a great mixing room, instead of trying to be a typical recording studio. The room is professional treated and made to make great mixes. It also have couch, mood lighting, and small bar to keep the creative juices flowing, so the fun factor is still there. I think everything you stated about being in the box a million percent on point. But, people do yourself a favor...give up on getting great drums, and room tones at home. pay for a few hours at a kick ass studio to get that sound, and do rest at home you will get a better result, save thousands in purchasing gear, and still support great studios from going extinct.
All good stuff you provided! I agree. However I have one question and one statement, in which It would be interesting to gain your observation. First the statement; I come from the days of when college classes would offer courses learning to splice tape! Thus I feel I was fortunate, in that I grew up right on the middle of the transition of analog going digital, and having the benefit to experience the best of both worlds. With that being said, there is also a consensus (one that I agree with,) that the birth of Protools and the Internet, was the beginning of the end for music (recording,) industry as many knew it. But perhaps somewhat less obvious, is the sense of "magic" or, the creative emotions a large, well decked out studio could invoke within the clients who walked in. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like once you were in the studio, you transitioned into another world. One the inspired the creative juices. By the huge board, tape decks, racks of gear, thick glass and big comfortable couches. In short, it's "visual" effect. Your thoughts? PS... I'll provide the question upon your reply (this was long enough!) :)
I do think there’s a certain “magic” to the bigger studio feel, still relevant today- but the number of studios that provide that “wow” factor is less every day as the major studios close. I’m finding that smaller studios don’t give people that feeling any more, and it’s up to the engineer/producer to evoke that feeling making the gear slightly irrelevant (unless you can afford the astronomical prices of the bigger places)
Your points are very valid..
Yet.. i find myself working better when committing to a sound (comp/eq) while recording.. I've worked on both domains for a while.. still thw hybrid setup works better in every aspect for me.
If it works for you, keep doing it. This isn’t like a call to action or anything, just a chance to explain why the industry is moving the way it is in general, but individuals can do what’s best in their setup
Interfaces have gotten better.
I think you hit a nail on the head with that now analogue is becoming elitist, simply because in order to compete with digital capability you need vast budgets.
Back in early year 2000, i already keep telling my SAE.edu lecturer ... Soon all track will go fully pure digital and hard disk recording will become a trend and easy for new artist to prepare they demo...(That time we already not using any analog tape at all, but a Mackie D8B and ADAT VHS digital audio tape)
I saw a video on "How to choose your Mixing Desk" a few days ago. I was like... I use a AD/DA + Ampbank + (wish I had a lil bit of 500 gear for mastering)... But that really is just because in some regards it really sounds that bit better to me. And that is opinion based and there lot´s of people that make stuff way better then me without anything of that sort
Correction: I feel like I am better with it because I don´t have any visual feedback besides gain staging and it feels faster to work to that way to me
Yep. I’m still considering upgrading to a modern desk, but it’s really about luxury and a little bit of convenience in big tracking sessions, and not an absolute necessity, unlike in the tape era
Digital is indeed amazing! It's a good time to live in! 😁 I combine the "digital world" with a few outboards in my home studio but plugins and VSTs are good enough imo.
If I would be not so lazy as I am and could afford space and serious analog desk and other analog stuff will never use anything digital. will only have to convert to digital after all is done only.
13:00 the Bill Gates compressors put me off🤣
Love my api 2448, it is the center of my studio
I found it easier to mix with a console, but the advantages of in-the-box and many, and obvious. Had to change around 2005.
I went UAD and never looked back
Cool guys don’t look back at explosions.
Analog desk only makes sense if you are tracking to me.
In terms of speed, some MCU or things such as the S3 would by way more efficient in both workflow and your pocket.
Analog gear will continue to have a place in studios worldwide. Cause they will continue to bring spice to the table. It's the studio paradigm that will continue to evolve into the hybrid mindset and the compact configuration. Great converters, great software and great analogue modules (transducers and acoustics should be included). But the cool thing about the digital domain is that if you can't afford the analog circuits you can still complete the productions and with equally good results . I agree that the mixing desks will be less common. The companies already know that and they are moving there. Big studios will continue to be around... for a while.
I would love to use an analog desk not cos of sound (of course neves and ssls sound great though) but cos of speed when recording or mixing. Maybe cos I do alot of live stuff but I am so much faster and better mixing on a desk as I can change all channels at once. If there is a better hybrid system with a desk and a daw (basically a digital live mixer but with your daw not it's own firmware) that would be syk
From an electronics perspective, it's much easier to make a large digital desk than an analogue one. A digital desk has minimal analogue parts allowing them to be kept away from noise sources. An analogue desk is analogue everywhere and keeping signals clean is a large part of the design. This is reflected in the high purchase price and maintenance cost.
Some good points made. I still have my A&H gl2200 in case I need it. But its not hooked up. All of my analog gear is still in the rack, if I need it its there. But most of the work I do is inside the box these days.
Gone are the days for this kind of recording you say? Maybe! When i got that perfect take ITB, and my computer crashed, or a session file got corrupted and i can't open it, I am glad that I still tracks with my Alesis HD 24, my Allen and Heath gl2200 and analog gear. If recall is needed, reset the board and go. Many no. 1 hits were made this way. That "noise" you refer to, people pay a lot of money to get that sound. Why use a plugin when I got the real thing. I may insert them into the board from time to time though. Thats why I very seldom listen to today's music. It sounds thin and boring because all the life has been sucked out of it digitally. Peace.
Dude what are those monitors? They look like NS10s but i'm sure they're not Yamaha!
+vileprayer studiospares SN10s - same idea, half the price! I only use them for checking the mix
Hop Pole Studios Thank you very much for the info!
As much as i love the look of a console, why not just route from the DAW thru a converter unit out to hardware and back in? Then you still have the flexibility of using outboard gear (compressors still sound better OTB to my ears) and can have as many buss groups as you need within your DAW. I use Mixbus 5 and I have to say, I like the sound built into it. It is almost like you have a really good "analog" plugin built into the software. Also, the routing and flow is similar to how you would work on a console. With most people going to external preamps and select hardware gear, it almost seems like hybrid or ITB is the way forward. That said, the console does look so bad ass. The way around it for me was just to pick up a Presonus faderport. Kinda of gives you a touch of authenticity without feeling like you are selling your soul. At the end of the day though, back to back you might notice a diff between analog and digital but on it's own, a good mix will just sound good to the person listening to it.
Like to me it seems like you are just getting lazier, record it in to the box any which way and do it in post! Can I have your desk?
How is it laziness if I can now record faster with better results? Who does the extra toil (and dealing with less-than-amazing preamps) benefit? And why does everyone want the desk???
It's laziness because you spend less time on source (I assume based on what you were saying in the video)
I think "better results" are completely subjective, muddy lo-fi sound against clean noise free sound, is like comparing Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles to Transcendence - Devin Townsend.
The Majority of Beatles albums are noisy messy and muddy, but very characteristic, because they spent a lot of time on source, and the opposite is true of many modern acts such as Devin Townsend, clean and often empty.
I agree and I am well aware that in the box is a quicker work flow, but in my opinion it makes way to be lazier, when you can edit a track in nearly anyway you want afterwards, with little consequence. Where as a more analogue solution requires more time and less laziness to get the results up front getting a great source, with outboard effects etc. it is a harder work flow and requires more time but often more rewarding and focused, and definitely less lazy, as its way more work.
My apologies if I have offended you, but I just don't agree with the thought process or way of approaching recording.
Source will always be king, and I assume you still spend time on source, but definitely not as much as you would have to, with your setup now as opposed to back then.
I also think everyone wants the desk because that desk is a great desk. GL's are beasts.
Excellent video, thank you!
I have never been more than an amateur and never will be. I think that the technology brings us the right way, not the opposite. To say that digital makes loss in sound quality is just not true, but yet again just proves the point that skills trumps gear anytime. I would rather have a knowledgeable producer on a tape recorder than a newbie on a world class console. Yes, computers make a change also in the music business - but what change? You can do better things on less - and cheaper equipment which leaves more room for creativity. Looking back what we could have done if we had today's technology when me and my mates 'set out to rule the world' some 25 years ago ... Well we probably would not have come much further in doing that, but all the time we could have used to be creative instead of struggling with equipment and gear ...
Break down what you mean by conversion, what is it?
nice vid and very informative
Analog never dies
Well done. Too many people live in the past, and sadly clients are especially good at that when they want to see big desks and outboard equipment. You have to educate them, updating them from methods decades ago.
So do you think Beyonce, pay to someone to mix in the laptop worldwide production?
Actually yes
I don't want to be negative about your comments, but this guys are sponsored by plugins brand, they need to say that they are mixing in the laptop that is logic, maybe not for you, but I can confident if this guys have plugins under their names, is like Chris lord saying, change your mixes mixing with my mix hub and everyone knows like he mix in his SSL, and me, as an artist, wants the warmth sound of the analog mixes. I started mixing in the box, and I am agree with you about the recalling, but mix the same song in the box and out or with plugins is different. Some plugins can do some stuff that the hardware can't do, I know that, but say I mixed for Beyonce in my laptop sound like convenient.
Grammy winners like Michael Brauer and Andrew Scheps mix in their computers now. And Beyoncé and other big artists happily pay them because they get results, and they don’t care how the results are achieved as long as it sounds right
If everyone is going in one direction, sometimes its best to go in the other direction.
recall in analog is hell at best.
Analog distortion is way better than digital. And thats a big part on compression. Not everything has to be neve level to sound great. Klark Teknik makes AMAZING products, and their older stuff is impressive
That’s why you don’t use digital distortion, you use super clean conversion and then analog emulations (which are pretty damn accurate now). KT is good stuff, but wouldn’t have a place in a modern hybrid workflow
I couldn't tell what the hissing noise was in this video until I turned it up REALLY loud and realized it was a metal track playing in the background. Not the best mixing ratio there IMO.
Indeed, cheapo desks are out. But.... Big classic analogs are IN! In fact, my studio now generates most of my income these days BECAUSE OF THE BIG MCI DESK and High class outboard.
I Agree!
That A&H is not a studio desk at all, it's a live mixer which usually means very clean without any character...
It’s in service in my studio, so it’s a studio desk... also “character” was never something desk makers were aiming for- it’s just a byproduct of the architecture available to the designers!
@@adamsteelproducer Nope, it's a desk designed primarily for live application, used in the studio, and in all honesty it's better going ITB, than using this desk... But having a well maintained oldschool Soundcrafts and similar studio desks, if u talk about budget options, that's a different story...
Well, it only took me five years after you to put aside my well-loved Tascam 24 track Digital Portastudio in favor of Reaper, something I swore never to do. I even used, God help me, pitch correction. I’m going straight to hell.
Haha time affects us all! I’m not completely anti-console, but unless something truly world class comes around at a sane price, it’s just not worth the hassle now :)
I'm making fire beats with a Roland JD-XI right now, and it is a stand alone synth/drum machine. Check out what I can do with just this one stand alone machine. I haven't even got to where I own a board like this, and when I do, I am never using a computer or software again. These stand alones and hardware equipment may be dead to others, but I am going to bring them back like Lazarus from what people say is dead. These stand alone machines are fully alive, people just don't want to dive and dig deep into them is the problem. I'm telling y'all, I'm gonna make history with the Roland JD-XI synth/drum machine. Then, when I get the money, it's on to the next stand alone machine. I'm COMING...SBN
As for the "next thing" or the future beyond the current digital transformation, I think we still have a long way to go before we see what's possible. I think the A2D conversions will get closer to the source in response to demand for eliminating links between source and digital desk. Let's be honest, the engineering industry isn't what it was, not even close. And in this market, the fastest studios are the most efficiently tooled/setup and thus also the most profitable. If quality converters can be outfitted at the Mic/Line source itself, then the time to route cables and mount mics will be vastly improved, and will also allow pushing the noise floor even lower. Current wireless tech isn't there, but it will be soon. Also, I think it's going to become easier and easier to run your audio processing in a server/client relationship and to engineer from client devices. This will be mandatory as the existing idea of monitors, screens, and keyboards go away. The traditional computer keyboard will be a legacy item in 40 years, and the audio engineering industry will move along the same direction.
It's time for change, and digital is it. A lot of engineers are so afraid of mixing in the box...
It a shame Mutt Lange is such a recluse. I'd love to hear his thoughts on all of this kind of thing.
Well me too, but his perspective would be a million miles from mine because of his extensive experience in huge studios with limitless budgets
All this talk about tape hiss. Have you ever heard of Dolby A / SR? It's dead quiet.
I’m not a fan of tape hiss, but machines with Dolby are expensive to say the least and extra maintenance work, because if the Bias is off even the slightest then its exaggerated by the compander circuit. It’s not that quiet though, pink floyd’s dark side of the moon used Dolby A, and the start of Time is very noisy
That could be due to several ping-pong mixdowns, to make room for the rest of the tracks in the song. If you don't exceed the 24 tracks, the noise are near inaudible compared to the signal recorded. But, I record mostly rock music, so the noise floor gets far below the instruments anyway.. I had a little hiss before buying the Dolbyrack, but it was still usable as long as you push the tracks to the max before saturation. Another analog tape-trick is to boost treble during recording, and cut it back during playback. (Take notes of freq/dB when doing this.) Got the 24ch Dolby on Ebay for about $800. That ain't too bad.
Agree that the cheap consoles of of the late 1990's, early 2000's were crap! With that said, when recording a rock or metal project I still use a real console (Audient), Neve mic pre's, API mic pre's and several others. Also high end microphones. Even though I am recording to digital and not my studer A80, I still want the warmest, punchiest sound I can get! I know you can do a lot in post with DAWS, but using the gear I am talking about there is a noticeable difference. Thats all for now.
Agree with all of that- but consider that if those Pres were in a rack rather than spread out across a desk, would they sound any different? That’s kind of what I was getting at- a lot of the functionality of a big desk (routing etc) is easily done in the box now, so as long as the important part (the pres) is kept, for a lot of people the expense of the larger format makes no sense
@@adamsteelproducer Understood. but sometimes it is still nice to mix on a console. Like a hybrid mix. Bring stems up on channel and process in the daw and out in the analog world. There is something special about that. Recall sucks, but you can always print what you did analog. Anyway, cool videos! I dig your channel! Peace!
PS...I guess im just f'n old! lol! :)
I agree put the analog at the bottom of the ocean and make a great reef.... I do 100% digital and not have a problem... Focal and room treatment more important.... IF YOU CAN'T HEAR IT YOU CAN'T FIX IT.....
Well said. I hear you.
Robert Glenn San Socie that's because he was shouting.
Seems like you're missing a trick. Hybrid mixing? Then you have the recall power of the computer. As well as the analogue warmth of you're console :-)
But lack the recall power of the desk settings, and lack portability too. It’s a nice idea but has the limits of the analog mix
@@adamsteelproducer I guess but you could leave the faders all at unity. Then you would just need to worry about what's on your auxiliaries. Or EQ if you don't simply use that the same way. Then you would just be warming up the signal. But yeah I can see why you've gone all out in the box.
Best of luck with the studio dude.
you are so right, in 1978 to build a million dollar room cost a million , today 2018 50k or less
It just gets me... at the end of the day you are listening to a digital audio wave file. So these dudes that are saying Oooh wooow gotta have that ANALOG stuff to get a that warm smooth analog sound. Eh... I think that's BS.
Hardware seems more like a workflow choice. Sometimes people want to turn knobs and touch shit.
Wanting a specific color and using the innate sound specific hardware? Sure that happens. (But I think it is theoretically possible to get that sound ITB if you're good enough and have plugins that are worth a damn.)
Mostly, I think it's a placebo effect.
Two 500 Series BAE 1073 + Neve 535 + Pultec EQP500X for guitar mics, that's my plan, I am the complete opposite I hate software. I just built my own ISO Cab based on Grossman design loaded with a Red Back so I can re amp real amps. I can't stand software amps, anything without a tube is disgusting to me.
My main issue is I have been playing with this mouse for 25 years and I'm sick of it! I need real switches and knobs, I don't care if it's expensive, it might take me 10 years but it's gonna happen.
Software now till I can get hardware, that's the plan, hell by the time I get it all built I should be an expert😁. I'm using hybrid of UAD other stuff and looking to get the FABfilter Mastering suite currently, I have an ASP 800 also for my Audix drum mics (Killer Mics) and an Apollo X8P. SM57, MD 421 guitars and SE 2200a vocal mic.
I have a bunch of Native Instruments stuff also, Machine 2, a Keyboard and the ultimate suite upgraded last year. I like their stuff.
People use mixing desk when they go tape or a reason to. There alot of music made on anologe snyths and stuff so there no point making it digital