Cleveland's Light Rail is ALSO Very Weird
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- Empty light rail through the woods does make for a cool ride, though.
Patreon: / milesintransit
Twitter: / milesintransit1
Facebook: / milesintransit
Website: milesintransit...
In Cleveland the light and heavy rail are collectively known as "the rapid," which is why every stop is referred to as a "Rapid Station."
that's a cool colloquialism, I was definitely confused ty for sharing this
The Shaker Rapid!
Still seems like... kinda stupid ngl? Like also saying station after the stop name. Like whats stopping them from just saying "Next station Tower city" or "Next station Schafer Square" for example. Much simpler, nicer, and easier to understand for passengers. You would only say stuff like Station or Rapid station at the end of the name if you're coming from another mode of travel like a bus, at least thats the case in a more sensible city.
@@drdewott9154 Most passengers are Clevelanders, and they understand what a Rapid Station is. That's like saying you can't say Subway Station in New York, or Metro Station in Washington.
@@LUNITUNZBackupright but the announcements in New York don’t say “Times Square Subway Station” because it’s obvious and unnecessary information
love how every time you go to cleveland you’re ever so slightly trying to 100% the system but unable to due to a bit (or a lot) of it not being open
I can't remember how many years it's been since every station was open at the same time
More Cleveland facts: The firm that designed that concert hall at 15:38 was Walker and Weeks who also worked on Indianapolis's World War Memorial, Cleveland Public Library, Cleveland's since demolished Municipal Stadium, and Cleveland's Hope Memorial Bridge (the bridge's Guardians of Traffic is where the name for the Cleveland Guardians came from). Public Square by Tower City was part of the Connecticut Land Company's (never forget the tale of Long Connecticut and CT's true destiny) original plan for the city, which were overseen by Moses Cleaveland in the 1790s. Cleveland was modelled after New England, and the square is signature of the layout for early New England towns. In 1879, it became the first street in the world to be lit with electric streetlights, thanks to arc lamps designed by Cleveland native Charles F. Brush! The Cuyahoga River once caught on fire at least FOURTEEN times! When it did in 1969, it helped spur the American environmental movement, resulting in amendments extending the Clean Water Act, Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement, and the creation of the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency (OEPA). Because of the incredible effort, the American Rivers conservation association listed it as their River of the Year in 2019!
Along with being the first city with electrified public spaces, Cleveland has had lots of other interesting firsts, too! These have included the opening of the first indoor shopping mall (The Arcade) in 1890, the first automobile sale in the US in 1898; and the first blood transfusion in 1905. In 1967, Cleveland was also the first major US city to elect an African-American mayor when it elected Carl B. Stokes. While the character of Superman comes from another planet, the concept of the Man of Steel comes right from Cleveland, Ohio. Co-creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster are from the city, and the story goes that Superman was created at Siegel’s house at 10622 Kimberly Ave. in the early 1930s. Cleveland didn’t invent rock music, but back in the 1950s, the term “rock and roll” was coined by local disc jockey Alan Freed on his Moondog Rock and Roll Radio Hour. The very first rock concert, the “Moondog Coronation Ball,” was held in Cleveland in 1952! This is why Cleveland was selected as the location of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Btw Stations on the RTA are starting to have real time tracking. Thanks to Clevelanders for Public Transit for pressing them on this. You can actually see one at 12:02
Oh, that's great! I guess we visited during a transition period!
The beeps the train makes are perfect. That's exactly what something that looks like that should sound like
cold, digital, electric, beep boop.
Elder Millennial who grew up a couple miles from the Green Rd station here! Took the Green Line countless times in the 80's and 90's, usually heading downtown for Guardians and Cavs games. Miss the old white & orange color scheme on the Rapid. There used to be blue and green flippy/roll-y cards with "Public Square", "Green Road", and "Van Aken" for the wayfinding indicators where the digital lines are now. I have vivid memories of that Green Road lot being completely full of parked cars and two or even three sets of the train cars joined together to make a much longer consist. Standing room only onboard. Tower City Center used to be bustling; my family once rode the Rapid to that mall just to wander around on Black Friday sometime in the late 90s. The most jam-packed I've ever seen the huge underground Tower City station was waiting to return after a Dave Matthews Band concert. And even when it first opened, we took the Waterfront Line just to try it out and were like, "What? Why?" Having visited a few times more recently as an adult, I was struck but how short the ride is (25 min or so?) from Green Road to Public Square compared to how long it felt as a kid. Another fun childhood memory is running around in the park area by that Belvoir stop in the summer and putting pennies on the track for the train to crush. Glad you got around to riding my home line, Miles. As you can see, it brings back memories. I'm excited for the new rolling stock, and will be sad but will toast the Bredas when they're finally retired.
This was a great read, thank you!
Thanks Miles and friend for the rides and commentary!
Fun facts:
1. Back when I lived in Cleveland, the Blue and Green Lines had an express zone (Tower City to Shaker Square, $1.00) and a local zone (85 cents).
2. The trains ran on the left side from Tower City to E. 55th and then switched to the right side.
Oh wow, even more crazy bespoke stuff, that's fantastic! Thanks so much for the donation!
Yeah the rolling stock you rode on the Green and Blue Lines were built by Breda Costruzioni Ferroviarie in 1980, while the MBTA Type 8s were built between 1998 and 2007. And as mentioned, Shaker Heights was designed to be a streetcar suburb around those lines. The Blue Line opened in 1920, while the Green Line opened in 1913. The Van Sweringen brothers built the Terminal Tower at Tower City (designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White; a Chicago firm that was the successor to Daniel Burnham's firm) as a plan to use it as the hub for all of Cleveland. They are the ones that built the lines to Shaker Heights as they owned Shaker Heights and used it as a development scheme (with restrictive covenants and guidelines called Shaker Standards; that also unfortunately barred African-Americans). The plan was to build more streetcar suburbs and connect them to the tower, run all long-distance trains there as well (they owned a railroad as well, the Nickel Plate Road, they only wanted it so they could use its route to the new terminal), and the local streetcars. However, their plan came crashing down after the stock market crashed in 1929. Shaker Heights took over the struggling lines in 1944, and the GCRTA took over in 1975. Besides the Nickel Plate Road, New York Central, B&O, and the Erie Railroad all used it, though the Erie Railroad initially didn't. And yeah, they've built new TOD at Warrensville-Van Aken, adjusting the road layout and redeveloping a strip mall and parking lots into mixed-used residential, creating a town center with Phase 1 opening by 2019. It also included a Blue Line extension, but that idea was scrapped for more development. They tried another TOD project at Lee-Van Aken, but Shaker Heights cut back on a better plan from 2000 in an underwhelming plan released in 2007 with condos (instead of mixed-use retail) and less infill because of "concerns" over parking, while Warrensville-Van Aken gave developers a blank slate.
Terminal Tower was the second-tallest building in the world when it was completed in 1927 and opened in 1930, it remained the tallest building in the world outside of NYC until the completion of the main building of Moscow State University in Moscow in 1953 and stood as the tallest building in North America outside of New York City from its completion in 1927 until 1964 when Prudential Center in Boston defeated it. It remained the tallest in Ohio until the Key Tower was completed in 1991. Besides Terminal Tower, the Graham, Anderson, Probst & White firm also worked on Philly's Suburban Station, Chicago's Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago's Merchandise Mart, Philly's 30th Street Station, Chicago's Wrigley Building, Chicago's Shedd Aquarium, and finished Chicago Union Station in 1925 after Daniel Burnham passed in 1912. Tower City was never particularly popular with the railroads. It required deviating from the quicker route along Lake Erie. As the city would not allow trains to operate under steam power near the downtown area, trains were forced to switch from steam to electric power at a suburban rail yard when heading inbound and then reverse on the way out at another yard. As a result, some lines began to bypass the station entirely, heading along the lake route, and some trains stopped serving the city altogether (like New York Central's Lake Shore Limited and the New England States).
It shakes me to my core seeing you press your whole hand on the seat lol
I rode the rapid fairly regularly when I lived in Cleveland. There was so much hype about the Waterfront Line and now it’s hardly ever open. Seeing what has become of Tower City saddens me as well. I used to do my Christmas shopping there!
What’s insane to me is that Cleveland legitimately has a fantastic public transportation system. You could live in the suburbs of cuyahoga county, and never need a car assuming you’re okay with buses.
The even more insane part is that if you were a tourist to Cleveland ( it’s insane that is actually a thing being someone who grew up in Cleveland in he 90’s ) you can legitimately fly in, never leave the airport, get on a train that goes straight downtown, get off and walk to your hotel.
You can buy a cheap transit pass, and never need to rent a car to see everything interesting.
The only issue Cleveland has especially in the eastern suburbs is that the rail lines pass through very sparse neighborhoods that could easily be developed, but there is a lot of corruption in East Cleveland, and the city won’t do much of anything like they have in Ohio city or the Detroit shore way until EC acquiesces to being annexed.
East Cleveland needs to be annexed, that is the biggest blight in the state, and the government there has continually failed the people.
Cleveland is going to be my next home. They are making so many improvements for transit and pedestrians like walking and biking and I’m ready to see what Cleveland is like in the future.
So nostalgic! I never rode the individual blue and green lines, only the red and waterfront lines when I was growing up in cleveland. Those loud announcements on the trains threw me back so much xD shame theres not more TOD on the lines, since having such an established network that goes to the airport to downtown is such an asset! Poor cleveland...
"I think we're like between two roads right now" worse...you're in the median of ONE road! Yes, east of Warrensville Center Road, the median of Shaker Boulevard is that huge. The median was kept intact largely because of resident opposition to high-rise buildings and other proposed development in the right-of-way. There is a multi-purpose trail that runs along the median between Warrensville Center Road and Sulgrave Road, and east of Green Road station, the trail connects to Beachwood City Park West and East in Beachwood. Major north-south thoroughfares intersecting Shaker Boulevard were spaced one-half mile apart in Shaker Heights to minimize traffic congestion. Besides the Van Sweringen brothers purchasing 1,366 acres in 1905 previously owned by North Union Shakers (the Shaking Quakers community faded away as the 19th century came to a close because of their practice of not reproducing, hence why the brothers ended up taking the land) for a garden suburb with streetcar service to downtown, calling it the Rapid to rapidly get you from downtown to the suburbs, as mentioned in another comment of mine, another piece of the puzzle for why these lines are this way is that approximately *75 PERCENT* of Shaker Heights is a federal historic district. The Shaker Village Historic District, which includes four miles of Shaker Boulevard, was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1984.
In 1913, what's now the Green Line initially opened between Attleboro and Coventry under the Cleveland & Youngstown Railroad (the Green Line was once called the Shaker Line), and connected to downtown Cleveland via a line along Coventry Road, north to the 1907 Shaker Heights streetcar line on Fairmount Boulevard in Cleveland Heights. In April 1920, what's now the Blue Line initially opened between Lynnfield and E 55th Street under the Cleveland Interurban Railroad (the Blue Line was once called the Moreland and Van Aken Line) and got onto street trackage from a ramp on East 34th. With the opening from Coventry to Shaker Square in August 1920, the old Cleveland Heights connection ceased in 1923. The other connection to the street network ceased when Union Terminal opened. As mentioned, Shaker Square is in Cleveland, not Shaker Heights. The brothers envisioned Shaker Square as its gateway between the urban and suburban living spaces represented in the early 20th century. Shaker Square makes up the second planned shopping center in the US, after Country Club Plaza in Kansas City. They were designed in a Neo-Georgian style by Phillip Small and Charles Bacon Rowley, and its octagonal area was inspired by Amalienborg Palace in Copenhagen. The neighborhood was once known as Little Hungary as by 1920, 42,000 people in Cleveland were born in the then Kingdom of Hungary, with a large portion living in the neighborhood. The nearby former Georgian Revival-designed St. Luke's Hospital became an independent senior living and subsidized housing community with a charter school, a Boys & Girls Clubs location, and office use
The Forest Hills neighborhood of Queens in NYC also comes to mind when it comes to a planned North American "garden city". Margaret Sage, the founder of the Russell Sage Foundation (named after her husband who was a railroad executive and one of the richest Americans of all-time; he was once a director of Western Union telegraph, the consolidated elevated railroads in Manhattan, the Wabash Railway, St. Louis and Pacific, Missouri Pacific Railroad, Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad, Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad and the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway), bought 142 acres of land in 1908 for "Forest Hills Gardens". Detroit-born Grosvenor Atterbury, who also worked on Pittsburgh's Fulton Building and Acadia National Park's carriage paths, bridges, and gatehouses, was given the commission to design Forest Hills Gardens. Like Shaker Heights, Forest Hills Gardens has many Tudor-style buildings. And when the LIRR station opened in 1911, it was designed to fit in as well, a brick courtyard, a clock tower, and arch-filled underpasses. The LIRR station and former trolleys helped spur development, and now several local and express buses and four subway stations (the four stations opened in 1936) also serve the neighborhood! As the Queens Boulevard subway line was being constructed, zoning laws were changed to allow fifteen-story apartment towers as they expected Manhattanites to escape for a cheap residence with a fast commute. So Queens Blvd went from just a route through farmland to Jamaica, into a busy commercial scene! Fun fact, Forest Hills Gardens once held the US Open from the 1910s until the 1970s when the tennis tournament moved to Flushing!
I remember before they tore it down to build the new Van Aken market hall, which has very good food. It used to be a Starbucks right there at the end of the lines and a huge bus turnaround. Also next time you don't have to walk to Green Rd. You can take the 14 Chargin-Lander to Richmond Rd. and catch the 94 E.222-Lakeshore or 34 E.222-Lakeshore. But just not on Saturday or Sunday because the 94 doesn't go to Tri-C East, it ends at Green Rd. Rapid and the 34 is Monday-Friday only.
Next time you're at Van Aken Market Hall be sure to stop at Banter or Lox, Stock & brisket. The Upper EastSider brisket sandwich is amazing, pricy but no regrets and their potato salad is to die for... And Banter has poutine bowls. It's a mess right now because they're tearing up the bus area of Van Aken Rapid Station. And they finally installed the app readers on the Blue/Green Line trains. At least the new trains arrive in 2 years, but I think they are just for the Red Line for the time being, I believe they said the Blue/Green Line need rebuilt before the trains can be used on them. I know the Red Line platforms have to be extended also. Starting tomorrow (July 7) the Blue/Green Lines will be shuttles for a month. Just one shuttle 67R running every half hour from Tower City, it does the Blue Line portion to Van Aken, then goes up Warrensville Rd to Shaker Blvd and does the last few stops of the Green Line and ends at Green Rd. So The Green Line because of the extra low ridership is NOT covered from Shaker Square to Warrensville.
This was a Saturday, but also we just wanted to walk since it was a nice day! Interesting to hear about the shuttle operation and how the Green Line totally gets shafted...
There's a couple of Tram-Train systems in Germany, like in Karlsruhr or Kassel. I remember being really confused but delighted when I saw a Tram turn up at a Train Station at Kassel-Oberzweren for the first time.
This was fucking awesome!! I went to school at John Carroll which is right by the green road station. The RTA is not in the right neighborhoods. the people that are in walking distance are all people with cars that look down on the public transit (at least on the ones out of downtown) really sick that this is the first time I've watched a video and been like I know all of this area!!! I hope you enjoyed your time in Cleveland!
my buddy also lived in the van aken apartments. that strip area doesn't get crazy tractions but they host a lot of events and that gets the place going. very upscale little area to be right by the rapid
Didn't know they even had a light rail so thanks for the info!
Luckily you wrote on them during the winter when they actually run. Here in the Summers all the sudden mysteriously all three rail line suddenly in the summer mysteriously go down for track work date you uploaded this video most likely the blue and green line will not be running because it would be replaced with shuttle buses
The blue and green line alignment reminds me a lot of some of the old trolley systems we had here in North Carolina. What happened around here was the trolley company contracted with the land developers to sell land (and sometimes build houses) so they could expand their trolley network. Usually huge plots of land with huge houses that were served by the "exclusive" trolleys. Cleveland kind of has that same vibe in the modern day. Really weird the city hasn't pushed for denser development along the line though, or at least moved at some point to zone for transit oriented development. Seems to be really holding back what could be a decent system.
Cleveland cut out the middleman. The Van Sweringen brothers built both the fancy houses and the trolley line to downtown. They’re also responsible for Cleveland Union Terminal and the Terminal Tower skyscraper above it, the complex now known as Tower City.
As a person who now calls Cleveland home. I love the architecture. How Cleveland seems to cherish it's history. I grew up in California. If it's over 50 years we tend to rip it up.
I have family in Cleveland so I’d visit them from NYC and they lived near green road and I’d love taking the RTA to tower city taking Amtrak from NYP to Cleveland was also fun
hi miles! i did a very similar route on my rta speedrun back in february to cover the blue and green lines, except that “road widening project” closed all of the bus stops around WARRENSVILLE-SHAKER RAPID STATION with no warning at all, so i ended up missing my connection when the bus dropped me off much farther north than where i wanted to be on an already tight connection. i plan on redoing the speedrun in early august with the waterfront line this time. also, as a bit of a tip, there’s generally less construction in the winter so more of the system is open. have a nice day!
ive just realized how long this is sorry about that
There used to be rollsigns before the led strips were installed, these cars being made in the early to mid 80's, replacement parts for those rollsigns possibly are hard to find or pricey these days.
The reason why the Green Line has nothing around it at the eastern end is that its in a giant median for Shaker Blvd and its set aside as a sort of park area. This is was probably by design as Shaker Heights was a planned community by the streetcar/railroad tycoons the Van Swearengin brothers.
Nothing against the median, but there's nothing outside the median either!
@@MilesinTransit Rta is such a dank system… sometimes I feel like it has been created and managed by people with only half a brain 😂😂😂
pretty sure it was also not supposed to end there
@@andrew23456able Yea it was originally supposed to end in Gates Mills I think... which is like the one of the least dense eastern suburbs today. Would have been a complete waste
@@MilesinTransit The Green line is surrounded by large lot suburban development, though most was built in the 20's or 50's. Very little chance that corridor will ever be upzoned. Shaker Heights is very proud of their "heritage" and has very restrictive zoning and use ordnances. That fact that the Van Aken mixed use development exists is amazing.
Love that back of the bus backpack cubby seat. Unless it's a busy route where it might fill up because then you risk being stuck staring at the person in front of you the whole trip. My seating choices are always based on how to most comfortably avoid eye contact
I took Amtrak to and from Cleveland for the eclipse. I can confirm that Miles is correct. Cleveland’s current Amshack is terrible.
Miles: Whoever was here last found use of he Gillig bar as a cupholder slash waste basket facility.
Nathan: Very innovative. That's why you know Cleveland is the hub of so much research is because people are so creative like that.
Such a weird, stressful, semi depressive, interesting train ride. Thank you lol
Think about the SEPTA Thorndale/Doylestown line....It gets very good ridership! Lot's of Nice suburbs...Doylestown, Main Line, Lansdale/Colmar(Mom's home)/ Thorndale (My home) This spring, I am going to take that whole line from Thorndale (.5 miles from my home) To Doylestown...Then back home. Just to have a nice fun day off adventure.
The waterfront line (some call it the ghost train) hasn't run regularly in years. You need to be in Cleveland where there is a big event to ride that. It was peak RTA weirdness when it used to run regularly (and completely empty)
Weren't they reopening it last Fall? Or is it open now after a long closure but now used only for special events?
@@Ponchoed They ran it for Browns games in the fall. Supposedly it will be fully back at some point
Nathan's comment about the Cleveland Orchestra is actually correct. It's one of the Big Five symphony orchestras in the US, the others being the New York Philharmonic and the Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia Symphony Orchestras
I used to take the Waterfront Line to school every day when I was in the 9th grade. Unfortuantely, those trains only terminate at Tower City nowadays. The Waterfront Line only runs primarily for Browns and Cavs game events.
Before the ubiquitous ownership of cars these were a brilliant way for suburbanites to get into their city jobs and entertainments. Reminds me a bit of "Meet Me in St. Louis." It's just too bad about the freaking automobiles!
Cleveland was also an early adopter of urban highways, as the innerbelt and shoreway predate the interstate highway system
You know a transit system is bleak when we don't even get a "now that's a fun fact"
Thanks for visiting!
When you put the transit system in historical context, these were planned or built when the mindset of the city was that of one with 950,000 inhabitants within the city limits (1950). Cleveland had a pretty intense manufacturing sector but also corporate headquarters & banking, all centered around Downtown. That placed the economic center of the region right there at the hard boundary of the Lake Erie shore where all forms of transport came together. The Cuyahoga River, Great Lakes shipping port, the old canal system, I90&I71&I77, freight rail, etc. came through downtown. Cleveland is not unique in suffering from urban sprawl, bypass freeways, and deindustrialization of the nation. But one thing that stands out to me is that since Downtown is on the lake and the evolving commercial sector has moved suburban, the economic center has shifted in a somewhat diffuse manner towards the geographic center of the region. You can tell when that was apparent to planners when CTS (cleveland transit system) was regionalized into RTA and later absorbing the independent North Olmsted Bus Line (NOMBLE). Just follow the freeways south from downtown and you find yourself in Independence, Ohio or Highland Heights, etc. all served by high capacity freeways particularly I480 at I77 due south of Downtown. And that’s where the major industrial parks are. There’s no public transit there to speak of. The freeways took the right of ways In many cases. The Cleveland metro area has gone multi-nodal in a freeway/car&truck centric environment. Very hostile to public transit and rail in particular. All things considered, I think the “Rapid” system does okay.
[To illustrate, I literally just received a form email from the attorney’s office that they are moving their headquarters from East 9th downtown to Independence, Ohio for the convenience of their clientele. The process continues unabated]
Thanks for posting!
As a Shaker Heights resident--you see the Architecture Review Board as no-fun busybodies until you look at other places and realize "oh, there is a point, things look *nice* here" and not in a subdivision HOA sense. Things look evenly proportioned and fit together well with a nice amount of variation. No McMansions. Then you get into Beachwood and they're slapping those gaudy monstrosities down as infill amidst modest midcentury ranches and 70s splits.
Unfortunately development trends got the better of the poor light rail system. Back in the day, the people in the big houses on the boulevards went downtown to work, and the household staff went up the hill to clean the houses. Now everything's out in the exurbs or sucked dry by private equity so the transit system's death spiral only continues.
Also, the cloth seats are like totally grodular, dude. We're going back to padded vinyl, thank the gods.
Eh, based on our walk in Shaker Heights, the architecture didn't really do it for me, but I don't doubt that it's worse elsewhere!
@@MilesinTransit Your walk was primarily in the 1950's era development of the city, most of the area west of Warrensville was built in the 20's and is more interesting.
The Green line run in the median of Shaker Blvd, for the first few stops the median is very wide and forested. The for most of its lenght in Shaker Heights the road is lined with very large homes on large lots and the surrounding neighborhood has only slightly smaller lots with several large city parks, which explains why there is very little ridership on that line outside of the park-n-ride.
An interesting note RTA is planning to replace trains on all 3 lines with the same high floor light rail vehicle, blurring the line between the "heavy" rail Red line and the "light" rail Blue and Green lines.
I'm originally from the Cleveland area. I remember taking the rapid from Lakewood to Tower City to go to work. Then I'd take a bus to Brooklyn.
Tower City Center is actually not the only RTA station with turnstiles! The North Coast Station on the Waterfront Line has turnstiles, but obviously they are not operational (Not sure if they reactivate them during Browns games / events).
Also, RTA recently got a grant to install several new mini-highs on the Blue Line to make the system more accessible.
When I visited Van Aken a couple weeks ago, it was actually quite busy and a section of one of the streets was pedestrianized with bollards. It's coming along although the big apartments are not quite done.
I will say I work at the Van Aken district and it does get PACKED it just depends on the day, most days we sell out of our breads etc though, though I don't love layout or vibe of the place
Whoa, you just get through talking about architecture, and at 5:37, you've got a Tudor next to a super modern I-don't-know-what?
Always found these midwest US systems (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, etc.) fascinating where they still had fairly decent ridership into the 70s, 80s, even 90s with significant use by middle class and even some upper class. Changing demographics (car centric Boomers) and suburbanization especially with office jobs away from downtown (plus loss of downtown shopping) decimated these systems to minimal ridership and almost exclusively very poor.
There was an older population (born 1900s-1920s) that in the 1970s & 1980s remembered the old streetcar systems of their youth and had riding transit from these Shaker Heights-like areas to office jobs downtown in some Beaux Arts or Art Deco office tower while shopping at the few remaining downtown department stores as part of their routine for decades. I understand when they shut the Rapid lines downtown in the late 70s/early 80s to rebuild the system a lot of ridership was lost and never recovered since people changed their travel habits and routines during the shutdown.
3:50 hawker siddley speaking down from the heavens 😭
I love how these cars have the ding-dong announcement sound of the old Boston orange line 1200s combined with the chopper traction motors of the old LA Nippon Sharyo P865/2020 cars
i literally do not know how i never saw this video until now, but i used to use this train during peak covid! I actually took a whole summer camp group from Shaker Heights to downtown Cleveland on the train (when it was still free- they are back to charging now :( ) This is the best kept secret for those wanting cheaper parking in Cleveland for events, park in the suburbs - which is usually free, ride the rail into downtown.
The reason people don't use it is because they (the cities/municipalities that the line runs through) wont allow any alterations to the track... many people in the burbs have to switch to get to work (at the hospital) and they just cant justify taking twice or thrice the time to get to work as driving would take. But those lots were very empty even during peak commuting times. The kicker is, people in Shaker will not let these trains go, even though they are not effective as they once were, they would rather pay over 27% income tax to keep that train (and other public things) running for the AeStHeTiC.
You should check out the Cuyahoga Scenic Railroad (it recently had a lil de-railing accident oopsies - no one was hurt).
The RTA is going to rebuild E. 79th Street station and promote transit-oriented development there. Why cant they do that on the Green Line’s segment between Shaker & Warrensville and Green Road?
Exactly!!
@@MilesinTransit I mean, there are no single-family homes on the other side of the road there so low risk of NIMBYism. They have done so much more with the Blue Line than with the Green Line. The Blue Line received new TOD near Lee/Van Aken and Warrensville/Van Aken Stations and the RTA is going to rebuild Warrensville/Van Aken. Why cant the Green Line get some of that as well?
One of these days I'd love to visit Cleveland just to listen to the Cleveland Orchestra.
The Cleveland Orchestra is well worth the visit. Also, assuming you're seeing them in their main venue, you're right near the Cleveland Art Museum which is well worth stopping to see. That area is basically a nice cultural district.
@@thexalon IIRC, Severance Hall where the orchestra plays was used in the movie The Saint. The man who built it, built a Mansion in Cleveland heights. That was torn down in the early 60's to make a mall. Severance mall. Which is no longer an indoor mall. Basically a Home Depot and a grocery store now. There is a marble fountain that was moved across the property. It was a massive piece of land for one mansion. All of this leads back to when I was a kid cutting through the woods and found the stables. I had no idea what it was. I guessed that it was stables, but 2 stories and such a large building, I didn't even know about the mansion. It was such a neat place. One day I started looking online to see if I could solve the mystery. I found a site with a few pics of the estate, Severance the man, outside of severance hall. It was a neat, if short, rabbit hole. clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/471
11:33 “Thank you”. “Whatever Bud”.
5:00 I do a lot of work in these neighborhoods/homes this part of Cleveland is very historical as far as the interior & exterior design. All these homes were build in like the late 1800s & early 1900s. The more west you go the younger the homes are. Westside homes were built as late as like the 1950s. It is really interesting having the rapid go through these neighborhoods.
It will be very interesting to see how the RTA is once the Siemens S200s start coming
I was only ever in Tower City during the MAC Tournament. I've only ever seen it empty.
2:32 I’m fairly certain that UTA does this too with the SD-100/160 for the Blue Line
And it doesn’t even say the full thing, it’s like “BLU-DRAPER”, though also did that with the rolling screens for Green (S70) for some time (“GRN-AIRPORT”)
It’s bizarre how there are still two rail lines that go to a low density suburb with enough wealth to not want/need to take public transit into the city. Yet Lakewood on the west side which is the most densely populated city in Ohio has a singular rail station serving the very southeast corner of Lakewood. At some point there has to be a shift towards serving the population that would actually use public transit.
Agree, The rail lines in Cleveland only exist because of history and which lines were maintained during the population loss of the city and general removal of streetcars in America.
I love this video so, so much and I don't understand why.
Thank you!
14:48 in a few years you might actually get your own BRT station: Miles Rd
I think it's funny that the one thing you like about the RTA is the main thing I hate about it (the extremely fluffy, germ-infested cushions)
As a native who's been on RTA for the most of my life, I hate those seats with a passion. I'll gladly take solid seats any day of the week.
These remind me a lot of the light rail in Pittsburgh, but possibly less ridiculous. At least Cleveland has a heavy rail line and an airport rail connection.
Ah the return rapid revenge video! I've never rode the blue or green line, but they seem less interesting than the red. I thought the red line at least went into the very desirable suburb of Lakewood, but I guess not by much with only the W. 117th stop. Several of my cousins all under 40 are all now living in Lakewood since it is one of the few walk able areas. As far as the housing comment, I have relatives who are getting priced out of neighborhoods as renters; I think more housing is needed in places that could easily absorb the density and for younger-ish individuals. The really desirable locations are definitely pricing people out of them.
Blue and Green are also really interesting, especially Green - I think they're worth a ride!
I lived car-free in Lakewood for a couple of years, and it was quite doable thanks to the 55 bus route (now the alleged BRT line out that way). But it's also become a very popular area, and that's increased rent somewhat.
Pre-Covid, Green Road and West Green... the P-n-R lot there was PACKED back then. The reason West Green exists was that fact, that the Green Road P-n-R lot was always packed.
Hope you tried Mitchell's ice cream
These cars really remind me of the old U2-Triebwagen I grew up with in Frankfurt. Nice to see them still in action after all these years.
You get everywhere miles.
It's because we get Miles ❤
Great vid as usual, but gotta admit I'm LOL'ing over the Cummins ski cap. Do Miles and his bros have a secret double life of rolling coal?
Cummins makes the engines in the Siemens locomotives for Amtrak and Brightline.
@@kitchin2 Yes I know LOL. Maybe the hipsters wearing trucker hats thing never died? But when I've seen a Cummins cap it's usually in rural America on a guy who, surprise, drives a diesel truck.
This is so wild to watch. I just started taking the red line and the health line for work and it’s so weird to watch you review it on TV.
I have a Red Line video too!
12:02 Amshack is the greatest joke on the channel so far and it’s completely unappreciated
What‘s the joke? The name “Amshack” is not Miles’ invention. It’s a common term
Yeah, I wish I could claim it but its lineage goes way back before me, it's just what people call those types of Amtrak stations!
@@MilesinTransit day ruined
Shaker Heights used to have PCCs well into the 70s 👀
People forget Cleveland had a much larger population, so in some areas, it's overbuilt. Ohio, in general, is weird because its population is evenly spread out between the 3 Cs, and doesn't have one single large city.
5/10, no Tower City vending machine review
Also at this point we just need to have as many foamers as possible descend upon Cleveland when the Waterfront Line fully re-opens so we can all collectively complete the system
Haha, truly!
@@MilesinTransit Ended up parking in the garage next to the Waterfront Line to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame over the weekend and regaled my husband about how this line exists but since it's not football season we couldn't use it, or the parking lots for that matter. It was weird.
This reminds me of when I used to ride the trolleybuses in Watertown - from Harvard Square to Watertown, you pay when you exit; from Watertown to Harvard, you pay when you enter.
When will the new LRVs be on the property?
I'm not sure!
This had ridership and express services before the highways. Highways killed the city and region to the sunbelt
No one even cares that he said, "Thank you" when exiting at 11:33 and the operator replied "Whatever." I guess since no one will ever like this comment. Please, UA-cam, I'm sorry that I rented a Dinesh video on your platform. It earned you revenue but earned me a shadow ban. Please lift it!
Huh?
@@MilesinTransit only the channel owners can see my comments and two other randomized people. I am in UA-cam ghost land. Thanks for your channel!
I went looking in the comments for this lol
I imagine by day's end, that Gillig bar will be full of empty cans all the way across.
That Cummings hat is brilliant
Come to San Diego and review our trolley system. It’s the only one I have experienced but it seems pretty good
I think it's the highest ridership system in the country now!
@@MilesinTransit it even beats los angeles???
@@shreychaudhary4477 It does! By about 2 million per year, on 30 fewer miles of track.
fun times in Cleveland some more!!!!
at least we're not detroit!
Come on down to Cleveland town,everyone!
The Shaker Rapid's right of way extends to Gates Mills but plans to complete the line was abandoned due to the Depression
I just found out the Manhattan Mall is pretty much dead aside from some glasses store… it’s nuts as the station under it has so much service (BDFMNQRW and the PATH terminus!)
MM has been dead since 2004. You have Macys across the street
Not since 2004, since 2020, there was a once busy JCPenney store there that opened in 2007 but closed in 2020!
I remember going to the Toys R Us Express store in that mall many times while killing time waiting for the next Ronkonkoma Branch train after getting off the PATH. Thought it was cool the JCPenney actually had an entrance right next to the PATH turnstiles.
Unfortunately all urban malls in the US are dead... COVID hit them hard
@@Ponchoed I wouldn’t say every! I still see people shopping at Newport Centre in Jersey City. Newport remains the busiest HBLR station, people in Hudson County take many jitneys there, lot of new stuff has opened there, and many New Yorkers take the PATH to Newport to shop there because Newport participates in NJ’s Urban Enterprise Zone program, which means reduced sales tax!
Tower City was pretty nice, then Loki attacked it in The Avengers and it's been downhill ever since. Maybe Superman will turn things around though.
Downtown US malls have a hard time, very few if any are thriving. Even the few that were doing well like Westfield San Francisco Shopping Center got hit hard by COVID and crime. The Downtown location by its nature requires huge expensive parking garages to attract tenants and shoppers and with it some sort of paid parking system even if validated. This pi$ses off suburbanites who can't fathom paying for parking at all or the mild inconvenience of taking a ticket at entry to carry with them for validation. Many vow never to return when they can park for free at a conventional suburban mall and not have to deal with the "hassle." Sorry to say this but then you get lots of "youth" hanging out at the downtown mall and there are often fights and highly publicized instances of people being shot or stabbed. This especially drives away the white suburban motorist shoppers. Eventually the stores over time move out from being luxury at opening to mid-tier to lower-tier to mostly vacant... that's precisely what happened to Tower City and countless other urban US malls.
@@Ponchoed I was making a joke about the fact that Cleveland's downtown has been a filming location for both MCU and DC superhero movies, but if you want to make it about your prejudices, I guess you do you.
For what it's worth, whenever I visited Tower City not that long ago, I found it rather pleasant to be in.
@@thexalon it's absolutely not my prejudice. I like Tower City and urban shopping... in fact the only malls I go in are urban malls and make a point to only shop downtown. But there's no denying that unfortunately downtown malls are dying and have for sometime. I wish it wasn't the case. The physical retail market is shrinking and it's really hitting Downtown malls hard - they definitely do have issues that drive away the typical suburban customer. Dont take my word for Tower City's decline, it's literally in news articles and online reviews.
That tower city mall is really weird and also why is it so hard to exit from
You were SO close to me I live about 5 minutes from the green rd rapid😊
Back in the 80s, that green rd and west green road were full to thr brim with Cara as people took the rapid downtown for work. Sometimes you coukd bot find a spot. That was when they ran double trains linked together and sometimes 3.
"Opening random doors and closing them and yelling at people for multiple different reasons."
If you think this is in the middle of nowhere you should take the St. Louis Metrolink red line
Yeah, although at least that ALSO serves a large swath of the actual city!
@@MilesinTransit yeah that's true. its wild to ride a bike along the Metro Bikelink trail. The trial runs along the alignment from Fairview Heights station to Shilo-Scott Station. Its crazy to go from the very edge of East St. Louis to the middle of nowhere. You'll see cornfields and then at the end the air force base. It's a fun ride highly recommend it.
It's sad to see rail infrastructure that barely functions as an avg bus line. Total ridership for the 2 light rail lines is an avg of 3200/day combined. There are at least 7 bus lines in Cleveland that far exceed light rail daily ridership, w some lines having twice the ridership. The light rail lines are serving the wrong corridors. After the Health Line, the Broadway corridor is the city's busiest at about 8,000 riders/day.
One thing that you missed -- with the wide headways that they run, your Shaker Hts. train shouldn't have had to wait for the Red Line train unless one or both of them was off-schedule. Years ago, I got the impression that one scheduler writes the Red Line timetable and another writes the two Shaker line schedules. A colleague who was sent to Cleveland for a conference went out to the junction and found that every hour two trains were scheduled to be in the same blocks at the same time. Of course, the signals won't permit that, so it creates a challenge for operators as to which one will get there first.
Hilarious! I guess we fell into one of those blocks.
Cleveland don't have the population for full 8 car trains.
You should do Denver's or Phoenix's next
Brilliant video sir!
Thanks!
This former Clevelander thought that all cities had car-centric train systems like the GCRTA Rapid. (West Side Red Line is especially car-centric as you get nearer the airport.)
man, if you hate the green line, you’ll hate STL’s red line on the Illinois side
He's used to light-rail through farmland, he did that in Denmark!
The Illinois part of the STL light rail is pretty annoying, but the overall system there is fantastic!
There’s was transfer ramp back in the days
Close Green Rd for TOD, make West Green Green Rd and the Park & Ride
Remembering that Cleveland has scooters, we have the makings of a Great Race™️: start at the division point of the Blue and Green lines, send a scooter rider off towards the terminus of the Blue just after a Blue service departs, see if their opponent can catch up with the scooter using the next Blue service \m/
@05:36 this gray, red and white house is interesting.
I recently went to Cleveland, and though the system needs some (okay, a lot) of work, for the size of the city, it's actually pretty decent. Sure, I may have only rode it from Tower City Center to one stop westbound on the red line (the eastbound portion was closed at the time of my visit), and sure, the system is pretty small, but it's much better than some bigger cities across the US. The stations (at least the ones I saw) need a lot of cleaning, and fixing, but they're overall pretty good. The area within a 15 minute walking radius of the station I travelled to from Tower City Center (West 25th - Ohio City) has pretty good development around it, including a market, some newer condos, and an incredible street featuring a very nice cafe/bar, an ice cream shop built out of a movie theatre, and an arcade/bowling alley, to name a few. I'd imagine there were some bars too, but I was there in the morning-afternoon. Overall, a system that needs a little fixing, a little cleaning, and a whole lot of modernization. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a transit card. I was disappointed, since I'm in the process of collecting cards, but oh well.)
They've been 2 years away from getting a smart card for the past 8 years now
Love this wacky system
definitely rivals baltimore for the most poorly utilized light rail in the USA
Baltimore gets >four times the ridership!
@@MilesinTransit okay ultra rare baltimore transit W lets gooo
Lots of you are idiots...the rich people lived in these areas back in the day and the rapids ran thru these areas....it's how it's always been
Tide light rail
Another classic American case of a system with really great bones that's going underutilized. I suspect that one day this will be a much more robust system and that the empty space around stations will be infilled.
Cleveland's population is half what it was and not going back up much if at all.
It'll get there, it has nowhere to go but up, especially once the Sunbelt gets unlivably hot.
@@MilesinTransit my thoughts exactly. I have a hunch that Ohio is going to get real cool in the coming decades, and even more so if Amtrak's plans for the state are realized
Lifelong Cleveland where I can tell you here is 20/25 and during the 2024 browns season as far as I know the waterfront line was not running I believe now because recently I was at what is our big heavy rail line the Red line station and they had where you could scan your phone walking into the terminal without any turnstiles though. I think some of these stations now have where you where you scan your phone at the at the station.