"The Ranger has d10 hp." "That's good!" "Many of its abilities are situational enough as to never come up." "That's bad!" "But it comes with a free frogurt!" "That's good!" "The frogurt is also cursed." "That's bad!"
Ranger is a good choice for a small party. You’re a ranged combatant, a melee combatant, a skilled character, and you have some spell casting and healing. You can wear a lot of hats and fill a lot of roles. Conversely, in a large party you’re going to find that there’s always someone who can do what you do only better…except for the Monk.
Ah, but, even though the Ranger gives off an (undeserved) vibe of a "frail" class, it can't quite get a pissed off DM to focus fire on it instead of the Wizard or Sorcerer quite like a Monk can.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 but for that you need to actually be able to build a monk that threatens enemies That’s not very easy to do tbh. Your damage isn’t great so setting up debuffs is the only option I know to actually force enemies to focus on a monk What do you think?
Rangers are good with big parties too. Rangers, even though not optimized for it, they can be the second tank, second healer, second damage dealer, second scout. Rangers are always by your side.
@@rasimir6124 Ranger with one level in Life Cleric, and one level in Druid. Maybe two levels in Moon druid, if you're feeling delightfully devilish. The ranger likely cares the least about the various restrictions those two classes place outside of maybe Wizard, and in exchange, you become an endless battery of party healing... as well as completely negate like, half of your own fluff abilities for surviving in the wilderness, because years of becoming one with the land are meaningless in the face of a handful of berries. And then if you go moon druid, you get extra combat presence when you get into melee, letting you invest fully into archery, since in melee you are just BEAR, and you get even more HP to soak and generally just be a little asshole with, and can scout super well as like, a spider or something. Plus, you return to the glory days of being a bear on a friendly bear mount, with a super powered bear pal who can poop extra bears, ideally while the bard plays hard bass. Does it rely on some suspect class feature interactions and hideously unbalanced abilities? Yee. Does it result in an incredibly versatile and flexible character who can keep nearly any party alive and kicking, while still more than allowing other characters to shine? Also yee. Rangers are such team players that they'll take broken class combos, so you don't have to.
"Let's do it like Paladin's spells, but different. So yaknow how Paladins can change their spells every day and how that's really useful? What if Rangers don't get to do that, but ALSO have fewer spells."
@@HiopX I would be stoked if they ever dropped the Arcane Archer from Fighter and made it a Ranger subclass, making the custom arrows a means to "smite" with ranged shots using spell slots as a resource.
When the Monster Slayer first came out, I thought that the 3rd-level abilities honestly should have just been made into core Ranger class features since they represent the identity of what the class wants to do.
Played the monster slayer... the Hunter's Sense ability almost never comes up. Everyone knows what dragons, giants and elementals are immune too. It came up once with a demon none of us were familiar with. It's really cool flavor and good for homebrew monsters or rare monsters... but that's it.
@@TangooseCarmike8205 most people don't memorise monster stat blocks. I've been in plenty of sessions with newer players who have no idea about monster weaknesses, so that feature would actually be quite useful.
That 3rd lvl ability for the fey wanderer to add wis to cha checks is 90% of reason I love that subclass. It is so dope. I love the idea of building an unnaturally charismatic fey-like being. Boost the hell out of wis, boost the hell out of cha, add expertise to persuasion, and boom! *True* otherworldly presence.
Zephyr Strike is such a great spell... I'm glad its Ranger-only (and you can't even get it through a feat,) it gives them something really cool of their own.
Horizon walker is almost one of my favorite subclasses, but much like the phantom rogue it just doesn't come together until too late in the game. If detect portal was passive and also detected teleportation (dimension door, misty step, etc) it could have actually been relevant, and if the 3rd level force damage and 11th level teleportation were swapped it would be fun right out of the gate.
Aight i really love horizon walkers as a concept so much and my fav PC that I played was one but they were admittedly carried by their flavor more than mechanics, so I may just actually put what you said into my games because it sounds absolutely perfect! But maybe I guess make it so that the 3rd level feature can also be used without needing to take the Attack action and instead make a bonus action that's basically misty step but without needing the spell and it draws on your 2nd level slot, so it only can be used at Level 5 or prof bonus or Wisdom Modifier, The reason why is I think Misty Step would be somewhat redundant is by RAW you _can_ just Make an attack at practically nothing and still be able to teleport 20 feet making Misty Step sorta redundant (you'll miss out on the 10-20 feet of extra range but that would still be enough to get out of grapples or get to most highground, etc), I also think it would be kind of a meh when you get the spell even if its mechanically good since well, you were already able to prance around the place 2 levels ago Per Page 193 of the PHB of the Making an Attack Section _Choose a target._ Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an *object*, or a *location*. So replace Misty Step with a different interdementional space cop type vibe of spell, idk what would be mechanically the best and flavor wise the best too but I think Blur or Mirror Image would be sick to emphasize the slippery ness of the class
Aight so, here's a buffed Horizon Walker I made, the most major change is I swapped the placements of Distant Strike and Etherealness 3rd Level Feature, Detect Shift At 3rd level, you gain the ability to magically sense the presence of a planar portal. You detect the general direction to the closest planar portal within 1 mile of you. As an action, you can pinpoint the presence of a planar portal more precisely, and gleam knowledge, knowing the exact distance and height and what Plane the portal leads to Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest. See the "Planar Travel" section in chapter 2 of the Dungeon Master's Guide for examples of planar portals. In addition, you can also detect the general direction of where an object, location or creature teleported towards up to 120 feet, and as a reaction, for a number of times equal to your Proficiency Bonus, you can pinpoint their exact location up to one mile. You regain all uses when you finish a short or long rest. 3rd Level Planar Warrior At 3rd level, you learn to draw on the energy of the multiverse to augment your attacks. When you hit a creature with a weapon, you can deal an extra 1d8 Force damage to the target, which can take this extra damage only once per turn. You can also choose that all damage dealt by the attack becomes force damage. When you reach 11th level in this class, the extra damage increases to 2d8. For each creature you hit within 60 feet of you, the extra damage granted by this feature increases by 1d8. This bonus ends at the start of your turn. *ALTERNATIVELY* For each creature you hit within 60 feet of you, the extra damage granted by this feature increases by 1d8 up to a maximum of 4d8 which scales to 5d8 at 11th level. This bonus ends at the start of your turn or when you miss an attack. ________________________________________________ 7th Level Feature, Distant Strike At 7th level, you gain the ability to pass between the planes in the blink of an eye. When you take the Attack action, you can teleport up to 10 feet before each attack to an unoccupied space you can see. If you attack at least two different creatures with the action, you can make one additional attack with it against a third creature. You can use this feature a number of times equal to twice your Proficiency Bonus, and regain uses on a short or long rest You can use this feature an unlimited number of times at 11th level of this class. ________________________________________________ 11th Ethereal Step At 11th level, you learn to step through the Ethereal Plane. As a bonus action, you can cast the etherealness spell with this feature, without expending a spell slot, a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, but the spell ends at the end of the current turn. ________________________________________________ 15th Level Spectral Defense At 15th level, your ability to move between planes enables you to slip through the planar boundaries to lessen the harm done to you during battle, you may also seize a minuscule amount of the Great Wheel to bend time. When you take damage from an attack, you can use your reaction to give yourself resistance to all of that attack's damage on this turn. Alternatively, if you are subjected to saving throw you can use your reaction to make it at Advantage. Once per short or long rest, you may also move up to your speed and to the source of the damage or saving thow and make an Attack action and bonus action, if you kill the creature, any damage or saving throw you were received is reversed and you return to your original posistion, as you break the natural rule of the Cosmos.
@@KoryLunaa If I understand planar warrior correctly, that means that at 5th level I can take my 3 attacks with crossbow expert, polearm master, two weapon fighting, etc and do 1d8, 2d8, and 3d8 extra damage to three different targets. At 7th I can do another 4d8, haste at 9th level adds a 5d8, and at 11th it becomes 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 5d8, and 6d8. If I get a reaction attack, I can make it against a target I already hit for another 7d8. Misses reduce all this starting from the highest damage, but it gets pretty out of control as you add more attacks to the equation.
@@timeforsuchaword Hmm that could be broken, but that's a bit of resources spent A few feats you need to take and a lot of to hit rolls, I'm not denying that building up to 7d8 is a godly amount of damage but that defo is a best case sceneario but hard to see what the average damage a Horizon Walker like this will do without Playtesting, but well something like limit the damage to 4d8 and scales to 5d8 at 11th level and or the bonus resets if you miss should do the trick
@@KoryLunaa Those sound like good improvements. I think when you do some testing you'll still find that it's stronger than you expect, particularly when compared to other ranger subclasses. Keep at it though, it sounds like an interesting version to play.
Hunter really needs extra spells as well. I just realized that Hunter can only choose one of each options. I have always allowed then to use all, I think my sub concious thought this should have been better than it was.
Yay been waiting for this one. Tasha did so much for Ranger, but it's one spell in particular I love the most now: Summon Beast. I'm playing a Beastmaster and having two pets is so good. And it's such a good use of your concentration, too. You can attack twice, attack once with your pet, and attack once with your summon beast. Not counting the fact that you have two more creatures with AC and Hitpoints on the field. You can now make a wisdom based ranger, too, which will help with saves. I SO want to play a Wisdom based Fey Wanderer. And as a tip, Favored Foe can get you some extra damage on bonus action heavy classes like Horizon Walker and Beastmaster. Thx for the tierlist, Treantmonk.
I am currently playing a Wisdom-based Firbolg Fey Wanderer who uses Druidic Warrior for the Shillelagh spell. He's pretty fun so far, and with all the optional stuff from Tasha's thrown in, he will be incredibly mobile and sneaky moving forward.
I'm going to say this because I made this mistake myself on my own beast-master and battle-smith: Don't forgot to add your prof bonus to the hit modifier of your Beast master companion/Steel defender. They use your spell attack modifier, not just your base INT/WIS mod.
Our group still uses it mixed with the UA variant. Partly because at the time the fan translation of the PHB (there was no official book in portuguese) put the revised version in the pdf instead of the original ranger. But I still prefer the favored enemy giving +2 dmg against the type of creature and natural explorer also giving advantage to initiative. The problem with Xanathar and Tasha is that I feel they gave everything to the subclasses instead of reworking the class. Due to that the original conclaves fall way behind. Also, Favored Foe being concentration based was specially shitty.
It's pretty hard to explain that the +2 damage isn't a core thing here on Brazil XD Also, I'm using the Favored Foe from the UA, since it's what was available when we started the campaign, and it's just way more fun to have the ranger using the concentration on other stuff than the old Hunter's Mark
@@crisrody852 I agree, but I think they changed it because it can be abused without requiring concentration. Like stacking hex, and Favorite Foe, or just stacking two hunters marks (spell, and fav foe). The way some of the newer ranger subclasses work you could stack a lot of damage that may effect balancing.
One good thing about tasha's beastmaster that usually goes overlooked, is that it has a great synergy with primal awareness plus the habilit to chose how the beast looks makes it a reality good scout
About the Horizon Walker's level 7: It can also be used to walk through enemies, and you don't draw opportunity attacks. And because you can move in all 3D directions during Etherealness, it also allows you to move to different heights with just your move that round. It's *almost* a short-rest recharge Misty Step and in many cases lets you conserve your actual Misty Steps. Or to conserve your 2nd-level slots for something else like Pass without Trace.
This makes speed boosts more useful on a horizon Walker Ranger because like you said it can increase their teleport range including upwards. Good synergy with Haste that they get at 9
One down side is that you can't use it as effectively if you want to get the movement before making an attack, since you are unable to attack until the end of your turn.
An important point about the Swarmkeeper that you missed! its Gathered Swarm triggers off any attack not any weapon attack, so it works on your attack spells too. thats a pretty big deal. you can Thornwhip to move an enemy 25' in one action with this, amongst other interesting effects.
Within the overall vibe of the content they have been releasing for 5e, I feel like the Monster Slayer Ranger is probably the most thematically consistent of Rangers. Favored Foe is disappointing. Once again we go from an ability that has out of combat uses, and replace it with a pure combat related one. I feel we have to be careful that we don't turn the Ranger into a Barbarian with a bow, mechanically. That's why Beguiling Twist is an elegant ability; one non-combat, one combat related feature that are thematically connected. Great points in here, all round. Thank you for your contributions to the art!
While circumstantial, it's worthing noting that Horde Breaker can function with Volley or Whirlwind Attack. As long as at least two of the enemies you're using it on are next to one another, you can stack up two attacks on one enemy. Meaning in those situations this is a straight upgrade from a normal attack action.
honestly for the hunter you could just erase "you gain one of the following features of your choice" and replace it with "You gain the following features" for all of their features and the hunter would become a lot more versatile and still remain more or less at the same power level
@@SamiJ1508 Certainly! Power-wise I agree. But personally, I would prefer getting to choose among options. Just feels better. And 2 out of 3 is better than it ws before. If there were 4-5 options to choose 3 of that would be even better!
@@wassentme1891 you chose the subclass. Making more choices in a sub class after already choosing has always bugged me. If their isn't a power budget issue than I don't know why you want to limit it
Getting the archery fighting style is highly underrated. A ranger with sharpshooter is a monster. They also get magic weapon, which can be huge in campaigns with few or no magic weapons.
I appreciate the red outlines on the ending chart for clarity, especially since it's gotten so cumbersome. But hey, only 4 classes left to go! I'd love to have a better understanding of why you rank some subclasses higher than others between classes, but that level of analysis would take forever.
The ranger chassis is very underwhelming past level 5, but up to level 5 it's not bad at all, and especially ranger spells can be really underrated. I thing most subclasses really need is a way to make sticking in ranger past that level 5 point feel worth it. Some do, I really like Beastmaster for that because if you don't do it you will notice your beast dropping off.
Can I just say how much I appriciate the fact that your tier list has a vague bell curve shape to it? I feel like not enough people are willing to say that the average subclass is average.
This could just be that hes taken all of them into account. And then in his ranking they just fit into the array he had. In a vacuum it might look different. Even in his description you can hear he is comparing subclasses to each other, and classes ro each other.
if I understand correctly, horde breaker can happen whenever you chose, therefore it doesnt conflict with extra attack. If your first hit kills the target, and you have a valid target for horde breaker, you can declare that before you declare extra attack.
Unfortunate that we don't get to see any mid to high lvl abili9, those can be a game changer. Espically since we reiterated that this is a mechanics review. Loving the videos lately, keep it up!
Spike growth and web are pretty different - spike growth doesn't depend on a saving throw and deals damage & creates difficult terrain, while web does require a save and restrains a creature, requiring action economy and checks to escape. The only similarity between the two is they are an AOE, but that is like saying Stinking Cloud and Fireball are the same spell. I thought you were going to talk about entangle or something.
I think his point was that the spells are usually useful in similar situations. Both can hinder the movement of grounded melee enemies; Web by locking them down entirely, Spike Growth by creating difficult terrain and punishing movement.
I had a run with a hunter ranger 3/ beast barbarian 5. Not your classic stonewall barbarian, who delivers strong blows to one enemy. But the two weapon style (claw attacks) and the horde breaker, made him into a wonderful riffraff remover.
It would be tempting with a 3level dip into armorer, if you want to play with 'library" as your favorite terrain. I love to play a librarian whom calls his library "The jungle of the uncivilized animals, that over many years I have learned to co-exist with, helping them forage for what they need, but never letting them make the mistake to think me less than the Allffa, scaring them away if they bark up a ruckus for the others.", then turn out to also be a ranger and actually have been talking about his home jungle, and be super chill with illiteracy and poverty. Maybe having actually helped a wolf pack for many years.
I disagree. I think it's useful in the open, since you more likely to be able to see the whole battle field and can pick any two enemies on the map that make the mistake of standing next to each other. In closed in spaces you're often more limited on which enemies you can see and choose to attack.
I think languages are useful (even required) to gathering intelligence. And intelligence about your enemy can turn a battle. Though I admit, that's impossible to quantify mechanically. But remember: "If know the enemy and yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." SunTzu
I was a little surprised that you didn't examine the ability to make a SAD WIS based Ranger with Druidic Warrior, so that your save DCs are strong. Overall, still about what I expected.
@@jaxonsellers1126 At least with Shillelagh you can activate it outside of combat, and because it's a cantrip and thus an unlimited resource, you don't even have to particularly care about the timing of when you activate it before combat.
It applies to any enemy you attack, one per turn per enemy. It can proc on multiple enemies, once per enemy. I would assume you are correct and it would apply/proc on AoO as well! Which, I didn't think of, pretty sweet!
I'm a little surprised that Swarmkeeper edged out Fey Wanderer. The Fey Wanderer build you did dipping 1 level of Undead Warlock to trigger Beguiling Twist every turn just...seems more potent than any of the builds I can think of for Swarmkeeper. The spell list seems better for Fey Wanderer, given that misty step isn't on the ranger spell list. Part of what makes me hesitate to hype swarmkeeper too much is that the shove seems like their most powerful option, and that's a strength save, which tends to be a pretty good save. Warlocks can take repelling blast and shove with no save. If I want to make a character focused around shoving, I feel like I look to warlock first. No doubt a ranger will outdamage eldritch blast, but if I want to focus on damage, there's other builds that do damage better than swarmkeeper too. Swarmkeeper seems stuck in the middle, where it's not the best at damage, and also not the best at shoving. Granted, I should probably wait and see where warlocks are ranked before jumping to too many conclusions.
Yeah but swarmkeeper is better at playing a Ranger, tho. Fey Wanderer is a very cool flavored trickster archetipe buy swarmkeeper is way more an actual ranger. Also, mage hand but made of locusts? Yusss.
@@logancuster8035 Hexblade is only obnoxious as a multiclass dip, and it is indeed unbearably obnoxious in that capacity. A straight-class Hexblade Warlock isn't that much stronger than the rest, though. I'm interested to see where it does land given all of that.
I expect hexblade to be in A tier, but hexblade would be rated high even if it was not allowed to learn repelling blast, so that doesn't exactly answer my question of how highly Treantmonk regards repelling blast. (On whether hexblade will be S-tier...I can't see hexblade being in S-tier. S-tier is for "this is not an endorsement! Don't pick these! They ruin the game." I don't think hexblade is capable of ruining the gameplay experience, it's just a pretty nice 1-3 level dip for some classes. Gets those classes medium armour and shields, and allows then to make weapon attacks with charisma. Good, but not "this ruins the game" level good).
Really, really looking forward to Rogues next week so that I can refer people to that video rather than having to explain about Assasins and surprise and why I'm pushing them towards Scout or Arcane Trickster instead.
Most of the people I see trying to sell me on Assassin are providing some kind of Assassin/Paladin level 20 build, and I usually bring up Scout's Sudden Strike as a more reliable alternative. I also like Scout with a Gloomstalker dip, but my personal preference for Rogues is usually to go Arcane Trickster or Soul Knife.
The rarity of surprise rounds is why I don't really like the assassin. You basically have to buy your DM a six pack or chocolate every session if you want to get the chance to use it frequently.
Scout is...fine. If you're picking a rogue over something like a fighter, you're probably doing it to be a skillmonkey, and get a bit of utility. Maybe also so that you can use a bonus action dash and have more mobility. Scout gets two more skill checks than other rogues, expertise on both skill checks, and more mobility than other rogues. And frankly there isn't a large difference between most of the rogues in combat in normal level ranges (like level 1-12) other than a couple standouts (Arcane Trickster is obviously very good). There's something to be said for specializing in the things a class is already good at. If you want to really focus on being a mobile skillmonkey, up until Tasha's, Scout was the pick. (After Tasha's maybe Soulknife dethrones scout in the skillmonkey role; psi bolstered knack is very good). Even without considering the really high level features, I think scout is okay. Like...despite Treantmonk's rating format not considering 13th+ level features, I wouldn't be surprised if Treantmonk rated scout around the...4th best rogue? Something like that? Could see it ahead of Thief/Assassin/Inquisitive/Mastermind/Phantom. I'm guessing it'll be behind Soulknife, Swashbuckler, and obviously Arcane Trickster.
We need to talk about how well Rogue mixes with certain Ranger subclasses...Gloom Stalker 5/Arcane Trickster X is a great build. Alternatively, if you want proficiency in Wisdom saves, Gloom Stalker 8/Arcane Trickster X is a great option.
The thing I really love about Stalker's flurry is how well it synergizes with sharpshooter. You are *always* encouraged to take at least one gamble-shot per turn because you're granted a free reroll on misses. So you're always encouraged to "go for it" until you miss (and then you think about it) - and that just feels nice. 100% it's not as good as a third attack, but it's definitely more than half-as-good - and that's still pretty damn good for a subclass feature :)
48:18 The few times I have had someone want to play a hunter ranger at my table I change one minor text aspects and allow them to choose 2 out of the 3 available options both times. I feel it gives just enough to bring it on par with the other stock ranger subs And those player have enjoyed class more IMO 😎
i think they did a great job for the ranger since tasha. Now the class is very much mid-tier. Idk why the monk received so much less than this. I can't wait for the rating of rogue subclasses. I put my money on swashbuckler. Also omg, only 4 more of this series.
The Monks issues are so "baked in" they would have to rebuild the class, AND the subclasses to fix them, hopefully they will address them in the next edition.
@@killcat1971 Honestly the core monk becomes decent if you just increase their ki point count by (wis). Takes you from 2 to 5 at lv 2, and from 20 to 25 at lv 20. Should be enough for using your monk exclusive features most encountering days. At most I guess they could use another ASI/feat at lv 10 or maybe scale the MA die up to d12 instead of d10 Many subclasses need extra love after that, but the good ones like open hand and mercy are just fine and feel on par with fighters or rogues
@@dimitrisdimitriadis4913 The issues are more than just Ki, although bumping it at low levels does help, you have to consider their role and how their mechanics "works" with that. They are supposed to be a striker, get in, hit hard, get out. But their mechanics doesn't really support that. My suggested changes would be: Dash and Disengage as a bonus action for free, bonus Ki, either WIS or PB or "when you roll initiative you regain a number of spent Ki equal to your PB", D10 hit die and Unarmored defense adds half your PB (rounding down) to AC in addition.
@@killcat1971 I have considered both of these changes myself, haven't playtested them though. I will insist, the monk really doesn't feel underpowered at low levels after the ki increase. And the "leap to your feet" feature from the drunken master subclass as a core monk feature, cause it's silly to be a martial arts master and lose more movement than a commoner to stand up. You might need either the d10 hit die or the free BA disengage (or a higher MA die) at higher levels, not both. Definitely not the "AC increases by prof/2 change", that's way too OP and makes you tankier than many paladins or clerics, which is definitely not your role in combat. You are a striker and a melee debuffer/controller, you don't need to be a tank on top of that. Which is why I think another free ASI or feat at lv 10 is appropriate. You want a free disengage? Get mobile. You want more battlefield control? Crusher or Sentinel. You want the same hit die as a barbarian? Tough. You want more AC and DPR? +2 Dex. You want more AC and cheaper stuns? +2 Wis.
@@dimitrisdimitriadis4913 As to the Armor IF you have 20s in both WIS and DEX you can get a good AC, a Fighter can get 20 with no magical equipment. If they are going to be the same "type" of character they should be able to operate in a similar environment. The reason for the free dash or disengage is that it's what Rogues can do 24/7, and it still costs your bonus action, which Monks get a lot of use out of.
Gloom Stalker can be an S tier class in certain campaigns. In Out of the Abyss, Umbral Sight is incredibly OP. It's not a situation where in one fight you'll have what is effectively Greater Invisibility (adv on attacks + disadv on attacks against you). You have it for the whole campaign. There's going to be a few instances where it gets canceled, such [EDIT: as in a small room with torches or such] as the Daylight spell. If you chose a lineage with darkvision, your darkvision is now 90 ft. So, you can try to maintain distance to prevent a spell like Daylight from canceling your Umbral Sight. Difficult but maybe not impossible. On the other hand, how many creatures in the underdark will even have the Daylight spell? More likely, they will be relying on their darkvision. There's also the Dread Ambusher feature that gets 3 abilities within it. Most subclasses get only 1 or maybe 2 abilities. This is the norm. Features that provide more are generally overpowered unless the additional abilities are ribbon abilities. But obvs this is only a tad too strong - 10 ft movement boost isn't the end of the world.
Also worth noting that your party members using darkvision, cannot see you to cast spells on you. Including healing. Could be bad if you go unconscious.
Should be mentioned: Rangers are the only divine caster that has to pick certain spells that they KNOW and can rarely change them out. Every other caster based on divine magic (cleric, druid, paladin) knows ALL their spells, and can pick and choose which spells they can prepare the next day with each long rest. But the designers decided rangers didn't suck bad enough already, and made them prepare just a couple spells that they know, like a bard or sorcerer. This pretty much ensures that rangers will only ever select a few particular combat-helpful spells, and will never learn or cast any ranger utility spells. Just another reason that rangers tend to be poorly designed compared to other classes.
Small point about horizon Walker. When the barbarian goes berserk and resists your normal damage, and you're the melee ranger, having that force damage is great because I did have the barbarian's health in one hit
I am not too sure if it came across to you that the beast master can use the feature to forgoe one attack multiple times a turn and isn't mutually exclusive to the command via the bonus action, through this you can use the attack action, forgoe one attack to let the beast make two if you're lvl 11+ (depending on how you read the feature you might even be able to forgoe both attacks, imho that is not very clear) and still use the bonus action to have it make two more attacks, netting you a nice five (or six) attacks. The beast also uses your spell modifier (wisdom) and if you picked druidic warrior as your fighting style you can be in combat with Shilllelagh, have good DCs for your spells AND a strong to hit for your beast. But wait there is more: If you are incapacitated the beast can take ANY action, that includes being unconscious due to being asleep, so it can take the night guard for you if you need that. This also means that you can still output damage if you are knocked to 0hp but not killed as it only dissappears on death (or resummon).
A few things to realize about the Ranger is this - Proficiency in all weapons, Medium Armor, and a d10 hit die. Basically, with at least 14 Dexterity, and Scale Mail (or, if wealthy enough, Breastplate or even better yet Half Plate), a Ranger gets 16-17 AC without a shield, comparable HP as a Fighter or Paladin, with the potential to do decent damage. Thus, they can stay near the wizard or sorcerer, who don't have much hp compared to even other spellcasters, and even lower AC, and just not that great at defending themselves up close, and thus can protect those spellcasters, all while doing distant damage. Also, should the main Tank, who is, let's say, holding a chokepoint, find themselves in a bind, wherein they have less than half their regular hp, a Ranger and go and say "Let's switch!", and now they can soak up the damage while the regular Tank heals and provides ranged assistance.
As usual your observations are astute. While mechanically the horizon walker really is a sub par ranger I really love the idea of a hasted ranger attacking 4 times a round while teleporting. For me I really don’t care for the look and feel of the hand crossbow ranger. That said weaponizing your bonus action is needed. The extra damage by using the bonus action is something I like. Have a fantastic day and thanks for all you do.
It doesn't solve all of the problems, but horde breaker is a little better if you have crusher, or some other way of forcing movement, since you can push enemies closer together so that the feature works.
Hey Chris, nice job dude! Hope you make a mounted combat guide for medium size mounts and small heroes. Also, would be awesome if you make a build for “climbing onto bigger creature” rule..
I took up the challenge some time ago to make a playable beastmaster ranger in AL and went Kobold, which worked great. A Kobold anything is probably great, now, but that was before Tasha's. This pre-Tasha BM, however, was awesome. My beast was Pteranadon, so I could ride it - and fly. I DM-rewarded myself a Gauntlets of Ogre Power, which was obscene. My character would "power dive" shouting something insane and stab the target from 10' w/ lance, then leave and go somewhere safe. If the DM allowed my Pteranodon's flyby to work for me, too, I could even do this to 10' reach monsters. My character had trouble w/ all this, however, because the lance was quite big for him - and his mount was overzealous. Sometimes while attacking he'd shout "slow down slow down - noooO!" And I would pretend to make and fail some sort of dice check - and the DM would say "what are you doing?" - and I'd say "just go with it" - and then I'd explain I'd failed my dice roll, my mount had come in too fast, and it shot out from under me, leaving me hanging onto the end of my lance, with it sticking out of the ogre's butt. And I'm hanging there in mid air, sort of gently bouncing up and down hanging onto my lance, and I say "I meant to do that." It always got laughs. Except from some DMs who were convinced I was up to no good - and were upset at my mobility. They inevitably attacked me the next round, and I'd say "How? I'm out of it's reach." "It moves here." "I'm hanging from a lance embedded in it's butt. If it moves here, it moves me here." At which point the DM would say, "I just hit you anyway." And ... I realize I've pushed them too far and have to accept it. Later they realize this is a "spoof" character or a "parody" character and would relax. I think it was a victory, however, that my lowly beastmaster (old type) got a DM so paranoid and worked up that they used "DM fiat" to "just hit me anyway" because I threatened them. As a beastmaster. Anyway, I'd sometimes Beg Grovel and Cower if my mount "had trouble finding me" next round, or it would swoop back and I'd get on, disengage, and fly away. Good times. Now the lance shtick was too good to pass up. But a Kobold beastmaster w/ Sharpshooter and a sling or short bow - flying on a fast Pteranodon - that's probably more optimized. You use f.s. archery and pack tactics to mitigate the -5 to hit of SS - and it's pretty hard-hitting. Fog cloud is on the Ranger list - cast that in the air to "blot out the sun" so that you and your target are not in direct sunlight, to beat sunlight sensitivity - and fog cloud is a good spell, anyway, of course. If anyone asked where my Pteranodon came from, I said a partially rubbed-out tattoo was visible on the underside of one of its leather wings, and it possibly once read: "PROPERTY OF MULMASTER ZOO". :D
@@mattf5935 you just made my inner child cry, Matt. You don't have to be this person. Really! (hint, I'm not attacking you at all - of course you're right, but you seem to be missing the mirthfulness of my post up there! /wink. Relax a little. My BM was a "parody character" - he was meant for fun more than optimization, but he did pump out decidedly good damage - and would have pumped out stupid-good damage had he gone SS and ranged. The DM could have said a lot of things - I wasn't really fighting the DM, either, if I didn't make that clear - the point was that my ultra silly old style BM Ranger made the DM worried - because of his mobility (fastflying) and because of the sick damage he did. It's a given that DMs are in charge of their tables; we all know this)
I noticed that Horizon Walker's 11th lvl ability is actually counterproductive when used with the lvl 3 feature. The latter requires you to choose a certain creature, and if you miss on your first attack, well... You either are going to lose the third attack if you attack that target again, or you're going to lose your 2d8 damage. Also, Monster Slayer's Supernatural Defence works on your Concentration saves since technically it's the enemy who causes them.
The Horizon Walker's level 3 still scales by an additional d8 at 11th-level, so you still get something. Also, you still get your teleports even when focus-firing a single enemy, just not as many of them. Honestly, I don't even look at that third attack as anything more than a ribbon. The main event is the teleports, and the third attack is simply there for cannon fodder battles.
I do think Horizon Walker's level 11 ability to attack 3 targets is pretty overhyped. If we're going to be critical of Arcane Archer's curving shot, which requires us to make one attack against our non-primary target, I think we should be even more critical of an ability that requires us to hit three different targets. That often won't be strategically better than two attacks on the same target. (Sometimes it will be a little better to hit three targets once, sometimes hitting one target twice will be better). That said, at minimum the feature gives us a 20 foot teleport every round, 30 foot if we do choose to hit three targets. So...that part is nice.
My major problems with the Hunter subclass are first that many of the subclass features used to belong to *ALL* rangers at lower levels (Evasion, for example), which just annoys me, or they emulate Feats from 3.xE, but are demonstrably worse (take a look at 3E's Mobility, Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack feats). Frankly, I've done a total rewrite of this subclass in which the ranger gets to choose extra subclass abilities every time a new subclass ability is given and Evasion/Uncanny Dodge are given at lower levels, until ultimately the ranger character gains *ALL* of these subclass abilities. Though I don't think it makes this subclass the most powerful available to a ranger, it does kind of smooth out some of the inequities. I've also changed all of the melee abilities to read "within your reach" rather than "within five feet." That was mostly to give the ranger some inducement to play a (possibly polearm-wielding) melee character. Also, I generally assume that if you're making a weapon attack, you're taking the Attack action. But I suppose I should rewrite the rewrite to say that you must use the Attack action to use Whirlwind Attack or Volley ... I also think that both Beast Master and Hunter need to have extra spells added to their subclasses, and that rangers generally need to *TRULY* be treated as if they cast spells "much as a druid does" (PH, p. 91) and be able to change out their spells after every long rest, just exactly as a paladin or artificer (the other half-casters in the game) get to do. I therefore use the "Prepared Spells" mechanic of every other divine caster in the game for rangers.
Hey Treantmonk, would you consider at some point doing a video on the triggering conditions of spells like glyph of warding, symbol or contigency? RAW there is almost like a black hole there, no limitations whatsoever, for example GoW can technically be used as the most powerful divination spell in the game(no dm would rule like that, but thats beside the point). I think it's a interesting topic(and not really talked about on forums that much) and having an input from you would help quite a bit.
I think it’s pretty valuable at low levels. Slightly better than the Dueling fighting style for example. At level 5 it loses quite a bit of steam though.
I feel like I have to disagree on your analysis of web a little bit. They both cover area control spells, but the way they work I am glad to have both options. The thing that web can do that spike growth is limited for is destroying action economy and the effectiveness of single targets. Spike growth can't do that. If I'm fighting a single very powerful creature, spike growth can let me get a bunch of extra damage on the target, but web allows me to impose disadvantage on their hits, advantage for my whole team, and then if they want to evade the penalties they have to spend an action to attempt to break free. Combo this with someone who grapples a webbed enemy, and you can completely lock down a webbed target, and force them to waste all their actions to escape or suffer being almost completely unable to hit since they have disadvantage, their only saving grace being their ability to teleport or use effects with saving throws. And I can't quantify it, but I imagine the damage boost you get from your team having advantage on attacks can even out the damage you get from spike growth, but spike growth doesn't offer anywhere close to the same benefits of control. I think what I like spike growth over web for is when I have a much larger battlefield or a lot of weaker enemies where I could potentially one-shot them or I can do a lot of damage by catching a lot of enemies at the same time in one spell. TL;DR: Spike growth adds tons of damage for a lot of enemies, web destroys action economy of a couple enemies. Very different uses IMO, and I feel like you're underselling it as a 5th level feature, especially if another spellcaster isn't covering area control spells.
20:44 I used this ability every day for an entire campaign. Eventually yes, I did find a dragon. Edit: I was playing a horizon walker, and I used it every day also, I did find a portal at one point, but I was on the road so I couldn't really investigate, but I made a note that we could go back and investigate.
Simple Ranger fix to align it to Paladin: Pack Tactics Starting at 6th level, whenever you or a friendly creature within 10 feet of you attacks your favored enemy, the creature gains a bonus to their attack roll equal to your Wisdom modifier (with a minimum bonus of +1). You must be conscious to grant this bonus. At 18th level, the range of this feature increases to 30 feet.
My dm allowed me to use sidekick rules on the beast for the original version of the feature in a one shot. At level 6 my panther obsidian had a +11 to attack, 32 hit points, and 18 ac with studded leather.
Gloomstalker ended up around where I thought it would but being "dead easy to optimize" does bring up a very important question: is this tier list evaluating power or ease of achieving power as they are very different criteria and casters undeniably have a harder time with the latter due to their higher customization. Really looking forwards to see how this shakes up the final 3 casters 2 weeks from now, especially the high-ceiling/low-floor sorcerer. As always, my tier list bumps every letter up 1 because that makes more sense to me to have broken classes as SS and the other best classes as S etc. SS: Moon, Twilight, Peace S: Shepard, Eloquence, Watchers, Conquest, Vengeance, Echo Knight, GLOOMSTALKER A: Trickery, Forge, Lore, Valor, Redemption, Glamour, Creation, Ancients, Devotion, Rune Knight, Wildfire, Stars, Glory, Light, Arcana, Oathbteaker, Crown, Armorer, Battle Smith, Battlemaster B: Tempest, Order, Life, Spirits, Spores, SWARMKEEPER, FEY WANDERER, Death, Knowledge, Grave, Whispers, Nature, War, Land, Zealot, BEASTMASTER2, Samurai, Eldritch Knight, Dream, Artillerist, Psi Warrior, Ancestral Guardian, Totem Warrior, HORIZON WALKER C: MONSTER SLAYER, HUNTER, Mercy, Arcane Archer, Beast, Storm Herald, Wild Magic, Cavalier, Purple Dragon Knight, Champion D: Shadow, Open Hand, Berserker, Battlerager, Long Death, Kensei, BEASTMASTER1 F: Alchemist, Drunken Fist, Astral Self, Four Elements, Sun Soul
The one I'll be watching out for most will be the Wizard. Specifically, because when cutting off tier 3 and tier 4, they lose a lot of what makes them eventually overtake other classes. This is how I can see ranking half casters like Gloomstalker, Conquest, and Watchers ahead of full casters like Lore, Light or Stars seem. Rangers and Paladins likely mutliclass in tier 2. I believe the tier list is about ease of optimization and overall power level. It's both. I like your list. Would shift a few things, but it's solid.
@@dylanba5251 No. We had a lot of very mechanical ways of playing it out with exhaustion and stuff so foraging was neccessary and needing to not wear armor in the desert that then fed into the role playing and I still had to make some rolls and stuff. Plus the terrain is pretty varient so I might have a favored terrain in one spot but then need to rely on just basic ranger shit which still gets a bump later. I am aabout to hit 6th level and for combat I kinda wanted to go rogue but im really torn because I want the explorer and favored enemy add ons. Good type of conflict to have
If I understand Beguiling Twist correctly then it's technically possible to activate the fear/charm effect on another creature when the first creature that has been under Beguiling Twist's fear/charm effect saves against it. Meaning you can potentially keep this ability up permanently by going between at least 2 creatures within range.
wow! i hadnt played a ranger yet so i still had the belief that favored enemy gave you a bonus to hit and damage against your enemy in addition to the flavor
I think Horizon Walker's flavor is really cool. And I would change it by giving it the d8 damage for free and requiring a bonus action to turn the damage into force damage. Basically, something like - you get a d8 damage once on your turn. You can use bonus action to turn that attack into force damage. And on level 11, that bonus action increases the bonus damage to 2d8. I think that's a fair trade off, since 2d8 damage isn't bad, even once per turn.
Stalker's Flurry has one advantage over giving, well, Advantage. If the enemy has partial cover from one of its allies, and you miss by 2 or less, you hit that enemy's ally and still trigger this bonus attack, getting one more attack.
I have a golgari hunter ranger at my table. I offered her primal awareness when Tasha's came out and she preferred to stay with primeval because it suited the flavor of the character better.
Gathered swarm does its thing after successfully hitting an attack. So at level 5 you can get that done up to two times per turn. Granted, if you miss you get none of it, but it does scale a bit.
I just did some calculating, and I just realized something - Variant Human or Custom Lineage Ranger could be the ultimate Linguist. 1 - V. Human and Custom Lineage get 2 languages - Common and one other. (Starting with 2) 2 - Linguist Feat grants three languages. (up to 5) 3 - A number of Backgrounds offer extra languages - some offer two. (Up to 7) 4 - Go Ranger. Pick Humanoids as Favored Enemy, for 2 more languages. (Up to 9) 5 - Take Rover, and grab two more languages. (up to 11!) With potentially 11 languages at Level 1, a ranger will be able to understand and talk to most any one.
Slight note, Favored Enemy gives only one language. Even if you pick two types of Humanoids, you have to choose one of their languages. So it's 10, not 11. Still a lot tho.
@@antongrigoryev6381 Okay - and some backgrounds offer only 1 extra language (or none at all). Still, a total of 8 languages at Level 1 is quite a bit - been trying to make Milo from Atlantis The Lost Empire - a 1 level dip into Ranger might be what this Linguist/ Cartographer needs, and then swap him over to Bard or Cleric, or Wizard, in order to get Tongues.... What do you think?
@@lockwoan01 Actually, you can get 10 languages at level 1 without using the custom lineage system. 1-2: V Human: Common + 1 language 3-4: Background: +2 languages 5-7: Linguist Feat: +3 languages 8: Favored Enemy: +1 language 9-10: Deft Explorer: +2 languages So it is a 9-10 if you use the Linguist Feat. The problem is that I don't see much point in taking the Linguist Feat unless you play a RP heavy game with a lot of languages. Having 6 languages are enough in most settings. A standard sage Wizard is only going to have 4. You need to leave room for the other players to shine.
@@Cloud_Seeker Well, the idea behind having 10+ languages *is* meant for a *Linguist* build. Also, to be honest, most Everyone "Knows" Common, or the equivalent in the game system, and them that don't, well, the DM tends to home-rule that the one doing the speaking for the group to the Party does know how to speak and understand Common.
I know that it's not necessarily a group-friendly playstyle unless accounted for, but it IS notable that the ranger gets access to both Fog Cloud and the Blind Fighting fighting style without having to multiclass to bring that combo to the table.
Personally, in the light of how Xanathar's and Tasha's has added to the Rangers (to say nothing about the potential potency of the additional subclasses), I'd house-rule the Hunter Ranger as having *all* the abilities that it would normally have to pick and chose from. If nothing else, it would become more versatile, and versatility in combat tends to be good.
Beguiling Twist: you get Charm Person at level 3. You can trigger this yourself. You basically get a second shot at charming, which you can turn into frightening but need to use on another target, that can be used in up to 120 feet. And that's ignoring the chance of that coming up on its own.
With regards to the Horizon Walker, I once played one at a table where the DM's homebrew setting was all about a world covered in planar portals that caused constant problems. So I used Detect Portal all the time, and it still wasn't very good. Anyway, this is probably the list I agree with most so far. I still don't like the ranger's design, but it's hard for them to ever be terrible when they have Archery, Hunter's Mark, and Extra Attack. And now that Tasha's has replaced their bad features with better ones, they're pretty good. It's absolutely ridiculous that anyone would ever compare rangers to monks.
@@tiradegrandmarshal Most of those are...granted, not impressive for the level but certainly at least useable. Bonus action hide is fine; yeah, rangers get it at 14, and rogue gets that at level 2, but rogues definitely use it. Blindfighting is fine. Ranger can get that from a fighting style now, but this feature has more range, and lets them pick another fighting style. The capstone is alright--basically gives rangers a free once per round precision attack as long as they're hitting a favoured foe/favoured enemy. Probably should have gotten this feature way earlier, like maybe level 6 or something, but it's a feature that I would expect to get used, and expect to provide a damage bump.
I was burned by a beast master ranger on my second dnd campaign. It was a hard fall going from bear totem barbarian to beast master ranger. It was a slog to get to third level, and the circumstances of the game prevented me from getting a beast companion so I basically had no subclass for two sessions until we were all caught and killed. And it was worse because we had a swashbuckling rouge who out damaged me every chance he got and a vadelkien wizard who was infinitely more useful. I used hunters mark and hail of thorns, but when those ran out I used my lizard folk bite attack more then any of my features from ranger. Years later I tried gloom stalker and that balanced my opinion on ranger, but when I came back to it I realized it doesn’t deliver on its core principle. Sure the class and subclasses are playable now, but when I joined a campaign with the hook of dragon hunters I thought “how bout a ranger who specialized on dragons?” And then I looked at their abilities and they have no real benefits to picking a favored foe or enemy, like how paladins and clerics are excellent at dealing with undead. Ranger could’ve been a class that was close to a fighter or paladin, but then when confronted with beasts and some other type of monster would be extremely dangerous, and then be really good at finding them. Instead we got a class that had to be cobbled into a workable character with half its useless features being replaced. It went from bad to bland.
The Ranger was interesting in the early versions of the game when it was similar to a nerfed Eldritch Knight. I would like to see where the Drake Warden falls on the list.
I played a Horizon Walker Ranger through most of Curse of Strahd prior to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and I absolutely felt bonus action starved. Almost every turn I had to carefully decide what to use my bonus action on because, for some reason, I was also the party healer (and somehow also the party face as a Kenku; our party composition was kind of a mess to be honest and everybody but me was a murderhobo). I chose Horizon Walker because I knew we would be starting at level 3 and be fighting creatures resistant or immune to non-magical damage so I figured that Horizon Walker would be the best choice to overcome that. Though, reflecting back on it, I ended up reading the level 3 bonus action for force damage incorrectly because I was treating it as "your next attack becomes force damage" rather than all attacks against the target deals force damage. Unfortunately, my DM did not end up correcting me either. The limitation of "within 30-feet" is surprisingly limiting as someone who wants to be as far back as possible with a bow. Ended up multiclassing into cleric and becoming good alignment for plot-item reasons, so I think the final build was Horizon Walker Ranger 8/Life Cleric 2. Even though we got dealt a terrible hand (all relics were in Strahd's castle and no one was cleric so I had to become one because it made the most sense) and our quest ended in failure (DM played very intelligently like Strahd should imo and there was an unexpected turn of events which left us down a player character), it felt good to basically carry the party using Life Cleric healing boost paired with Healing Spirit before it got nerfed while using the relic to burn Strahd away while he was stuck inside our wizard's Wall of Force sphere.
Was toying around with the idea of pairing either Fey Wanderer Ranger or Conquest Paladin with the Dragon Fear feat, especially with the UA version of Dragonborn where breath weapon is moved to PB/long rest rather than 1/short rest. Dragon Fear is not a feat I see come up often, and I don't exactly blame people for that as it requires being a Dragonborn AND losing the one cool thing Dragonborn get, but the synergy seems really high with the subclasses' respective level 7 features.
Pre tasha it made some sense to do dragonborn conquest pally since at least you had the necessary stats Switching breath for dragon fear wasn’t that bad either if your charisma was higher than your con
I have a dragonborn conquest paladin with the dragonfear feat that I've been playing since shortly after Xanathar's came out. He is my favorite character and dragonfear has been great, especially before you hit level 9 and get the fear spell. Having 2 frighten abilities per SR means you can use these abilities consistently.
While I dislike Assassin and think it's overall very weak there are ways to optimize it and make a strong character with it and just for that I doubt it'll get an F
I think even without gaining surprise, assassinate's advantage on all your attacks (at the start of basically every combat) can be pretty great on a multiclass build -particularly with elven accuracy. -Even on a straight rogue it deserves a little more credit. Thief gets a climb speed, to jump faster and can sometimes throw caltrops or pick a pocket in combat as a bonus action.
@@elliotbryant3459 The problem with the advantage part of Assassinate is needing to beat initiative. Which the Assassin does not excel at any more than any other subclass of Rogue. It really needed an in-subclass initiative-boosting feature of some sort (proficiency bonus for initiative, for example, would've been nice). Because of that, you're pretty much obligated to take the Alert feat right away if you want to use even *that* part of Assassinate with any degree of consistency. On top of that, the introduction of the Aim feature in Tasha's has diminished the value of that part of Assassinate even further.
The thing about the ranger that i dislike the most is the dumb spells known mechanic, if they had spells prepared they would be so much better their default list is really nice, it would have been so nice if the revised ranger from Tasha's had spells prepared. :(
"The Ranger has d10 hp."
"That's good!"
"Many of its abilities are situational enough as to never come up."
"That's bad!"
"But it comes with a free frogurt!"
"That's good!"
"The frogurt is also cursed."
"That's bad!"
"Can I go home now?"
I read this in his voice
But it comes with a free topping!
I saw the first part and prayed that after "read more" you'd finish this the way you did.
You can have all of my internet karma for today. :)
@@roscoeivan8739 I didn't get that at all from his comment.
Over an hour of valuable content on Rangers yet you managed to fit in multiple free digs at Monks at no extra cost. The value! Clear S-tier video.
That’s economy of action right there!
The hate boner for monks is overdone
@@AssafStone truly an optimized build
Not the first time this series (outside of the monks episode).
"No extra cost". those words are like poison to monks.
Ranger is a good choice for a small party. You’re a ranged combatant, a melee combatant, a skilled character, and you have some spell casting and healing. You can wear a lot of hats and fill a lot of roles. Conversely, in a large party you’re going to find that there’s always someone who can do what you do only better…except for the Monk.
Ah, but, even though the Ranger gives off an (undeserved) vibe of a "frail" class, it can't quite get a pissed off DM to focus fire on it instead of the Wizard or Sorcerer quite like a Monk can.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 but for that you need to actually be able to build a monk that threatens enemies
That’s not very easy to do tbh. Your damage isn’t great so setting up debuffs is the only option I know to actually force enemies to focus on a monk
What do you think?
@@Booklat1
Grapple.
The DM will try to kill you, just so they don't have to remember what actually happens if you succeed.
Rangers are good with big parties too. Rangers, even though not optimized for it, they can be the second tank, second healer, second damage dealer, second scout. Rangers are always by your side.
@@rasimir6124
Ranger with one level in Life Cleric, and one level in Druid. Maybe two levels in Moon druid, if you're feeling delightfully devilish.
The ranger likely cares the least about the various restrictions those two classes place outside of maybe Wizard, and in exchange, you become an endless battery of party healing... as well as completely negate like, half of your own fluff abilities for surviving in the wilderness, because years of becoming one with the land are meaningless in the face of a handful of berries.
And then if you go moon druid, you get extra combat presence when you get into melee, letting you invest fully into archery, since in melee you are just BEAR, and you get even more HP to soak and generally just be a little asshole with, and can scout super well as like, a spider or something.
Plus, you return to the glory days of being a bear on a friendly bear mount, with a super powered bear pal who can poop extra bears, ideally while the bard plays hard bass.
Does it rely on some suspect class feature interactions and hideously unbalanced abilities? Yee.
Does it result in an incredibly versatile and flexible character who can keep nearly any party alive and kicking, while still more than allowing other characters to shine? Also yee.
Rangers are such team players that they'll take broken class combos, so you don't have to.
"Let's do it like Paladin's spells, but different. So yaknow how Paladins can change their spells every day and how that's really useful? What if Rangers don't get to do that, but ALSO have fewer spells."
And give them tons of niche Druid spells that really requires Prepared Casting to make good use of them
And don't let them cast rituals. (Though to be fair, Tasha's Primal Awareness has *somewhat* alleviated the pain we're talking about here.)
But to offset that, they can't smite
This was basically the mindset for all spontaneous casters for some reason
@@HiopX I would be stoked if they ever dropped the Arcane Archer from Fighter and made it a Ranger subclass, making the custom arrows a means to "smite" with ranged shots using spell slots as a resource.
When the Monster Slayer first came out, I thought that the 3rd-level abilities honestly should have just been made into core Ranger class features since they represent the identity of what the class wants to do.
Honestly might make that a home rule one day. Thanks for the ide.
Should still be doable up to proficiency number of times per long rest though.
Played the monster slayer... the Hunter's Sense ability almost never comes up. Everyone knows what dragons, giants and elementals are immune too. It came up once with a demon none of us were familiar with. It's really cool flavor and good for homebrew monsters or rare monsters... but that's it.
@@TangooseCarmike8205 most people don't memorise monster stat blocks. I've been in plenty of sessions with newer players who have no idea about monster weaknesses, so that feature would actually be quite useful.
Maybe once you know the weakness . Your Hunters Prey should change to the weakness
That 3rd lvl ability for the fey wanderer to add wis to cha checks is 90% of reason I love that subclass. It is so dope. I love the idea of building an unnaturally charismatic fey-like being. Boost the hell out of wis, boost the hell out of cha, add expertise to persuasion, and boom! *True* otherworldly presence.
To be clear, Eloquence Bard does this better, but absolutely! It and Swarmkeeper are great.
@@wassentme1891 Well you wouldn't be a ranger if another class couldn't do what you do, but better.
Zephyr Strike is such a great spell... I'm glad its Ranger-only (and you can't even get it through a feat,) it gives them something really cool of their own.
Horizon walker is almost one of my favorite subclasses, but much like the phantom rogue it just doesn't come together until too late in the game. If detect portal was passive and also detected teleportation (dimension door, misty step, etc) it could have actually been relevant, and if the 3rd level force damage and 11th level teleportation were swapped it would be fun right out of the gate.
Aight i really love horizon walkers as a concept so much and my fav PC that I played was one but they were admittedly carried by their flavor more than mechanics, so I may just actually put what you said into my games because it sounds absolutely perfect!
But maybe I guess make it so that the 3rd level feature can also be used without needing to take the Attack action and instead make a bonus action that's basically misty step but without needing the spell and it draws on your 2nd level slot, so it only can be used at Level 5 or prof bonus or Wisdom Modifier,
The reason why is I think Misty Step would be somewhat redundant is by RAW you _can_ just Make an attack at practically nothing and still be able to teleport 20 feet making Misty Step sorta redundant (you'll miss out on the 10-20 feet of extra range but that would still be enough to get out of grapples or get to most highground, etc), I also think it would be kind of a meh when you get the spell even if its mechanically good since well, you were already able to prance around the place 2 levels ago
Per Page 193 of the PHB of the Making an Attack Section
_Choose a target._ Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an *object*, or a *location*.
So replace Misty Step with a different interdementional space cop type vibe of spell, idk what would be mechanically the best and flavor wise the best too but I think Blur or Mirror Image would be sick to emphasize the slippery ness of the class
Aight so, here's a buffed Horizon Walker I made, the most major change is I swapped the placements of Distant Strike and Etherealness
3rd Level Feature, Detect Shift
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to magically sense the presence of a planar portal. You detect the general direction to the closest planar portal within 1 mile of you.
As an action, you can pinpoint the presence of a planar portal more precisely, and gleam knowledge, knowing the exact distance and height and what Plane the portal leads to
Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
See the "Planar Travel" section in chapter 2 of the Dungeon Master's Guide for examples of planar portals.
In addition, you can also detect the general direction of where an object, location or creature teleported towards up to 120 feet, and as a reaction, for a number of times equal to your Proficiency Bonus, you can pinpoint their exact location up to one mile. You regain all uses when you finish a short or long rest.
3rd Level Planar Warrior
At 3rd level, you learn to draw on the energy of the multiverse to augment your attacks.
When you hit a creature with a weapon, you can deal an extra 1d8 Force damage to the target, which can take this extra damage only once per turn. You can also choose that all damage dealt by the attack becomes force damage.
When you reach 11th level in this class, the extra damage increases to 2d8.
For each creature you hit within 60 feet of you, the extra damage granted by this feature increases by 1d8. This bonus ends at the start of your turn.
*ALTERNATIVELY*
For each creature you hit within 60 feet of you, the extra damage granted by this feature increases by 1d8 up to a maximum of 4d8 which scales to 5d8 at 11th level. This bonus ends at the start of your turn or when you miss an attack.
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7th Level Feature, Distant Strike
At 7th level, you gain the ability to pass between the planes in the blink of an eye. When you take the Attack action, you can teleport up to 10 feet before each attack to an unoccupied space you can see.
If you attack at least two different creatures with the action, you can make one additional attack with it against a third creature.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to twice your Proficiency Bonus, and regain uses on a short or long rest
You can use this feature an unlimited number of times at 11th level of this class.
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11th Ethereal Step
At 11th level, you learn to step through the Ethereal Plane. As a bonus action, you can cast the etherealness spell with this feature, without expending a spell slot, a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, but the spell ends at the end of the current turn.
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15th Level Spectral Defense
At 15th level, your ability to move between planes enables you to slip through the planar boundaries to lessen the harm done to you during battle, you may also seize a minuscule amount of the Great Wheel to bend time.
When you take damage from an attack, you can use your reaction to give yourself resistance to all of that attack's damage on this turn. Alternatively, if you are subjected to saving throw you can use your reaction to make it at Advantage.
Once per short or long rest, you may also move up to your speed and to the source of the damage or saving thow and make an Attack action and bonus action, if you kill the creature, any damage or saving throw you were received is reversed and you return to your original posistion, as you break the natural rule of the Cosmos.
@@KoryLunaa If I understand planar warrior correctly, that means that at 5th level I can take my 3 attacks with crossbow expert, polearm master, two weapon fighting, etc and do 1d8, 2d8, and 3d8 extra damage to three different targets. At 7th I can do another 4d8, haste at 9th level adds a 5d8, and at 11th it becomes 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 5d8, and 6d8. If I get a reaction attack, I can make it against a target I already hit for another 7d8. Misses reduce all this starting from the highest damage, but it gets pretty out of control as you add more attacks to the equation.
@@timeforsuchaword Hmm that could be broken, but that's a bit of resources spent
A few feats you need to take and a lot of to hit rolls, I'm not denying that building up to 7d8 is a godly amount of damage but that defo is a best case sceneario but hard to see what the average damage a Horizon Walker like this will do without Playtesting, but well something like limit the damage to 4d8 and scales to 5d8 at 11th level and or the bonus resets if you miss should do the trick
@@KoryLunaa Those sound like good improvements. I think when you do some testing you'll still find that it's stronger than you expect, particularly when compared to other ranger subclasses. Keep at it though, it sounds like an interesting version to play.
Beastmaster could be a really good subclass, if they also added spell list, Find Familar, Find Steed, Summon Beast would all fit.
Hunter really needs extra spells as well. I just realized that Hunter can only choose one of each options. I have always allowed then to use all, I think my sub concious thought this should have been better than it was.
At least now you can easily get a familiar with druid 2
Yay been waiting for this one. Tasha did so much for Ranger, but it's one spell in particular I love the most now: Summon Beast. I'm playing a Beastmaster and having two pets is so good. And it's such a good use of your concentration, too. You can attack twice, attack once with your pet, and attack once with your summon beast. Not counting the fact that you have two more creatures with AC and Hitpoints on the field.
You can now make a wisdom based ranger, too, which will help with saves. I SO want to play a Wisdom based Fey Wanderer.
And as a tip, Favored Foe can get you some extra damage on bonus action heavy classes like Horizon Walker and Beastmaster.
Thx for the tierlist, Treantmonk.
Summon Beast is fantastic do you know if it gets an attack of opportunity?
I am currently playing a Wisdom-based Firbolg Fey Wanderer who uses Druidic Warrior for the Shillelagh spell. He's pretty fun so far, and with all the optional stuff from Tasha's thrown in, he will be incredibly mobile and sneaky moving forward.
I'm going to say this because I made this mistake myself on my own beast-master and battle-smith: Don't forgot to add your prof bonus to the hit modifier of your Beast master companion/Steel defender. They use your spell attack modifier, not just your base INT/WIS mod.
Our group still uses it mixed with the UA variant. Partly because at the time the fan translation of the PHB (there was no official book in portuguese) put the revised version in the pdf instead of the original ranger. But I still prefer the favored enemy giving +2 dmg against the type of creature and natural explorer also giving advantage to initiative.
The problem with Xanathar and Tasha is that I feel they gave everything to the subclasses instead of reworking the class. Due to that the original conclaves fall way behind.
Also, Favored Foe being concentration based was specially shitty.
It's pretty hard to explain that the +2 damage isn't a core thing here on Brazil XD
Also, I'm using the Favored Foe from the UA, since it's what was available when we started the campaign, and it's just way more fun to have the ranger using the concentration on other stuff than the old Hunter's Mark
@@crisrody852 I agree, but I think they changed it because it can be abused without requiring concentration. Like stacking hex, and Favorite Foe, or just stacking two hunters marks (spell, and fav foe). The way some of the newer ranger subclasses work you could stack a lot of damage that may effect balancing.
@@DarthSoto78 They should have done the obvious and removed Hunter's Mark, that is, make it into the lvl 1 talent and balance it accordingly.
One good thing about tasha's beastmaster that usually goes overlooked, is that it has a great synergy with primal awareness plus the habilit to chose how the beast looks makes it a reality good scout
I've been waiting for this video. My opinion of the ranger has improved because of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything
ya improved the most I think, poor monk
About the Horizon Walker's level 7: It can also be used to walk through enemies, and you don't draw opportunity attacks. And because you can move in all 3D directions during Etherealness, it also allows you to move to different heights with just your move that round. It's *almost* a short-rest recharge Misty Step and in many cases lets you conserve your actual Misty Steps. Or to conserve your 2nd-level slots for something else like Pass without Trace.
This makes speed boosts more useful on a horizon Walker Ranger because like you said it can increase their teleport range including upwards. Good synergy with Haste that they get at 9
One down side is that you can't use it as effectively if you want to get the movement before making an attack, since you are unable to attack until the end of your turn.
And at double movement
Otherworldly Glamour + High Wis/Cha + expertise = absurd bonuses to rolls. In case you ever wanted to play a diplomancer.
I think Mage Hand is the second 3rd level feature of Swarm Keeper.
24:49 Chris will never resist an opportunity to dunk on Monks 😂
An important point about the Swarmkeeper that you missed! its Gathered Swarm triggers off any attack not any weapon attack, so it works on your attack spells too.
thats a pretty big deal. you can Thornwhip to move an enemy 25' in one action with this, amongst other interesting effects.
Within the overall vibe of the content they have been releasing for 5e, I feel like the Monster Slayer Ranger is probably the most thematically consistent of Rangers.
Favored Foe is disappointing. Once again we go from an ability that has out of combat uses, and replace it with a pure combat related one. I feel we have to be careful that we don't turn the Ranger into a Barbarian with a bow, mechanically. That's why Beguiling Twist is an elegant ability; one non-combat, one combat related feature that are thematically connected.
Great points in here, all round. Thank you for your contributions to the art!
What I expected: a simple tier list
What I got: the most comprehensive Ranger overview on the site
Bravo sir!
While circumstantial, it's worthing noting that Horde Breaker can function with Volley or Whirlwind Attack. As long as at least two of the enemies you're using it on are next to one another, you can stack up two attacks on one enemy. Meaning in those situations this is a straight upgrade from a normal attack action.
honestly for the hunter you could just erase "you gain one of the following features of your choice" and replace it with "You gain the following features" for all of their features and the hunter would become a lot more versatile and still remain more or less at the same power level
For the customization, I would prefer 2 out of 3. Powerwise I agree.
@@wassentme1891getting all 3 wouldn't be op
@@SamiJ1508 Certainly! Power-wise I agree. But personally, I would prefer getting to choose among options. Just feels better. And 2 out of 3 is better than it ws before. If there were 4-5 options to choose 3 of that would be even better!
@@wassentme1891 you chose the subclass. Making more choices in a sub class after already choosing has always bugged me. If their isn't a power budget issue than I don't know why you want to limit it
Getting the archery fighting style is highly underrated. A ranger with sharpshooter is a monster. They also get magic weapon, which can be huge in campaigns with few or no magic weapons.
When Umbral Sight comes into play, the gloomstalker DOESN'T stand out.
excellent pun. Have my like
I appreciate the red outlines on the ending chart for clarity, especially since it's gotten so cumbersome. But hey, only 4 classes left to go!
I'd love to have a better understanding of why you rank some subclasses higher than others between classes, but that level of analysis would take forever.
The ranger chassis is very underwhelming past level 5, but up to level 5 it's not bad at all, and especially ranger spells can be really underrated. I thing most subclasses really need is a way to make sticking in ranger past that level 5 point feel worth it. Some do, I really like Beastmaster for that because if you don't do it you will notice your beast dropping off.
Can I just say how much I appriciate the fact that your tier list has a vague bell curve shape to it? I feel like not enough people are willing to say that the average subclass is average.
This could just be that hes taken all of them into account.
And then in his ranking they just fit into the array he had.
In a vacuum it might look different.
Even in his description you can hear he is comparing subclasses to each other, and classes ro each other.
A gloomstalker, a hunter, a monster Slayer, and a fey wanderer. That's the party. Likely, an S tier team to be frank.
Thanks for another stellar video! It's awesome to see the full subclass chart falling into a normal distribution.
I love the ranger. It's probably my favorite class despite all of its issues. Thanks for making such a great listing.
In our game we have the Beastmaster and Hunter as part of the core Ranger class.
I am surprised that Fey Wanderer and Swarmkeeper didn't get B rating.
Got me thinking about a Fey Wanderer bard combo now with the Otherworldly Glamour on any Charisma check. Ultimate Counterspeller
if I understand correctly, horde breaker can happen whenever you chose, therefore it doesnt conflict with extra attack.
If your first hit kills the target, and you have a valid target for horde breaker, you can declare that before you declare extra attack.
I find that the best usage of hordebreaker is to trigger it with forced movement.
Unfortunate that we don't get to see any mid to high lvl abili9, those can be a game changer. Espically since we reiterated that this is a mechanics review.
Loving the videos lately, keep it up!
Spike growth and web are pretty different - spike growth doesn't depend on a saving throw and deals damage & creates difficult terrain, while web does require a save and restrains a creature, requiring action economy and checks to escape. The only similarity between the two is they are an AOE, but that is like saying Stinking Cloud and Fireball are the same spell. I thought you were going to talk about entangle or something.
I think his point was that the spells are usually useful in similar situations. Both can hinder the movement of grounded melee enemies; Web by locking them down entirely, Spike Growth by creating difficult terrain and punishing movement.
I had a run with a hunter ranger 3/ beast barbarian 5.
Not your classic stonewall barbarian, who delivers strong blows to one enemy.
But the two weapon style (claw attacks) and the horde breaker, made him into a wonderful riffraff remover.
Horde Breaker is more commonly useful if you play a lot of dungeon crawls, though! Less useful out in the open
Decent for a multiclass
It would be tempting with a 3level dip into armorer, if you want to play with 'library" as your favorite terrain.
I love to play a librarian whom calls his library "The jungle of the uncivilized animals, that over many years I have learned to co-exist with, helping them forage for what they need, but never letting them make the mistake to think me less than the Allffa, scaring them away if they bark up a ruckus for the others.", then turn out to also be a ranger and actually have been talking about his home jungle, and be super chill with illiteracy and poverty. Maybe having actually helped a wolf pack for many years.
I disagree. I think it's useful in the open, since you more likely to be able to see the whole battle field and can pick any two enemies on the map that make the mistake of standing next to each other. In closed in spaces you're often more limited on which enemies you can see and choose to attack.
Wooo I've been waiting for this one!
This series is the highlight of my week. Some of the best content on UA-cam!
I think languages are useful (even required) to gathering intelligence. And intelligence about your enemy can turn a battle. Though I admit, that's impossible to quantify mechanically. But remember:
"If know the enemy and yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." SunTzu
I was a little surprised that you didn't examine the ability to make a SAD WIS based Ranger with Druidic Warrior, so that your save DCs are strong.
Overall, still about what I expected.
Probably because archery + sharpshooter is so good.
@@ATMOSK1234 very true
Also because the round you use your BA for the cantrip is a round you aren't activating favored foe/hunter's mark/and BA subclass ability
@@jaxonsellers1126 At least with Shillelagh you can activate it outside of combat, and because it's a cantrip and thus an unlimited resource, you don't even have to particularly care about the timing of when you activate it before combat.
@@tiradegrandmarshal isn’t shillelagh’s duration really short though?
Well constructed video. Keep it up. Been reading your stuff since 3.5 on gitp.
Loving this series
I just realized that the fey wanderer's extra damage doesn't say anything about your turn, so that damage could apply to opportunity attacks as well
It applies to any enemy you attack, one per turn per enemy. It can proc on multiple enemies, once per enemy. I would assume you are correct and it would apply/proc on AoO as well! Which, I didn't think of, pretty sweet!
I'm a little surprised that Swarmkeeper edged out Fey Wanderer.
The Fey Wanderer build you did dipping 1 level of Undead Warlock to trigger Beguiling Twist every turn just...seems more potent than any of the builds I can think of for Swarmkeeper. The spell list seems better for Fey Wanderer, given that misty step isn't on the ranger spell list.
Part of what makes me hesitate to hype swarmkeeper too much is that the shove seems like their most powerful option, and that's a strength save, which tends to be a pretty good save. Warlocks can take repelling blast and shove with no save. If I want to make a character focused around shoving, I feel like I look to warlock first. No doubt a ranger will outdamage eldritch blast, but if I want to focus on damage, there's other builds that do damage better than swarmkeeper too. Swarmkeeper seems stuck in the middle, where it's not the best at damage, and also not the best at shoving.
Granted, I should probably wait and see where warlocks are ranked before jumping to too many conclusions.
Yeah but swarmkeeper is better at playing a Ranger, tho. Fey Wanderer is a very cool flavored trickster archetipe buy swarmkeeper is way more an actual ranger. Also, mage hand but made of locusts? Yusss.
I mean, if the Hex Blade isn’t S or high A Tier I will will shocked.
@@logancuster8035 Hexblade is only obnoxious as a multiclass dip, and it is indeed unbearably obnoxious in that capacity. A straight-class Hexblade Warlock isn't that much stronger than the rest, though. I'm interested to see where it does land given all of that.
I expect hexblade to be in A tier, but hexblade would be rated high even if it was not allowed to learn repelling blast, so that doesn't exactly answer my question of how highly Treantmonk regards repelling blast.
(On whether hexblade will be S-tier...I can't see hexblade being in S-tier. S-tier is for "this is not an endorsement! Don't pick these! They ruin the game." I don't think hexblade is capable of ruining the gameplay experience, it's just a pretty nice 1-3 level dip for some classes. Gets those classes medium armour and shields, and allows then to make weapon attacks with charisma. Good, but not "this ruins the game" level good).
Really, really looking forward to Rogues next week so that I can refer people to that video rather than having to explain about Assasins and surprise and why I'm pushing them towards Scout or Arcane Trickster instead.
To be honest the Scout is also rather overrated. Not outright dogshit like the Assassin, but not exactly a winner, either.
Most of the people I see trying to sell me on Assassin are providing some kind of Assassin/Paladin level 20 build, and I usually bring up Scout's Sudden Strike as a more reliable alternative. I also like Scout with a Gloomstalker dip, but my personal preference for Rogues is usually to go Arcane Trickster or Soul Knife.
As an assassin stan, you're absolutely right. They're a bad choice for almost every campaign and build.
The rarity of surprise rounds is why I don't really like the assassin. You basically have to buy your DM a six pack or chocolate every session if you want to get the chance to use it frequently.
Scout is...fine.
If you're picking a rogue over something like a fighter, you're probably doing it to be a skillmonkey, and get a bit of utility. Maybe also so that you can use a bonus action dash and have more mobility.
Scout gets two more skill checks than other rogues, expertise on both skill checks, and more mobility than other rogues. And frankly there isn't a large difference between most of the rogues in combat in normal level ranges (like level 1-12) other than a couple standouts (Arcane Trickster is obviously very good).
There's something to be said for specializing in the things a class is already good at. If you want to really focus on being a mobile skillmonkey, up until Tasha's, Scout was the pick. (After Tasha's maybe Soulknife dethrones scout in the skillmonkey role; psi bolstered knack is very good).
Even without considering the really high level features, I think scout is okay.
Like...despite Treantmonk's rating format not considering 13th+ level features, I wouldn't be surprised if Treantmonk rated scout around the...4th best rogue? Something like that? Could see it ahead of Thief/Assassin/Inquisitive/Mastermind/Phantom. I'm guessing it'll be behind Soulknife, Swashbuckler, and obviously Arcane Trickster.
We need to talk about how well Rogue mixes with certain Ranger subclasses...Gloom Stalker 5/Arcane Trickster X is a great build. Alternatively, if you want proficiency in Wisdom saves, Gloom Stalker 8/Arcane Trickster X is a great option.
Ranger and Rogue multiclass very well indeed.
Scout/assassin + gloomstalker multiclass is far dirtier lol
@@xandermichael836, You're right, it is, actually. Nothing like a guaranteed sneak attack along with three attacks per round.
soulknife is pretty good as well. take thrown weapon fighting and your set.
The thing I really love about Stalker's flurry is how well it synergizes with sharpshooter. You are *always* encouraged to take at least one gamble-shot per turn because you're granted a free reroll on misses. So you're always encouraged to "go for it" until you miss (and then you think about it) - and that just feels nice. 100% it's not as good as a third attack, but it's definitely more than half-as-good - and that's still pretty damn good for a subclass feature :)
Appreciate your hard work, Chris!
Hoping you are able to place Blood Hunter in your rankings 🍻⚔️
We love you Treantmonk!
48:18
The few times I have had someone want to play a hunter ranger at my table I change one minor text aspects and allow them to choose 2 out of the 3 available options both times. I feel it gives just enough to bring it on par with the other stock ranger subs
And those player have enjoyed class more IMO 😎
i think they did a great job for the ranger since tasha. Now the class is very much mid-tier. Idk why the monk received so much less than this. I can't wait for the rating of rogue subclasses. I put my money on swashbuckler. Also omg, only 4 more of this series.
The Monks issues are so "baked in" they would have to rebuild the class, AND the subclasses to fix them, hopefully they will address them in the next edition.
@@killcat1971 Honestly the core monk becomes decent if you just increase their ki point count by (wis). Takes you from 2 to 5 at lv 2, and from 20 to 25 at lv 20. Should be enough for using your monk exclusive features most encountering days. At most I guess they could use another ASI/feat at lv 10 or maybe scale the MA die up to d12 instead of d10
Many subclasses need extra love after that, but the good ones like open hand and mercy are just fine and feel on par with fighters or rogues
@@dimitrisdimitriadis4913 The issues are more than just Ki, although bumping it at low levels does help, you have to consider their role and how their mechanics "works" with that. They are supposed to be a striker, get in, hit hard, get out. But their mechanics doesn't really support that. My suggested changes would be: Dash and Disengage as a bonus action for free, bonus Ki, either WIS or PB or "when you roll initiative you regain a number of spent Ki equal to your PB", D10 hit die and Unarmored defense adds half your PB (rounding down) to AC in addition.
@@killcat1971 I have considered both of these changes myself, haven't playtested them though.
I will insist, the monk really doesn't feel underpowered at low levels after the ki increase. And the "leap to your feet" feature from the drunken master subclass as a core monk feature, cause it's silly to be a martial arts master and lose more movement than a commoner to stand up.
You might need either the d10 hit die or the free BA disengage (or a higher MA die) at higher levels, not both. Definitely not the "AC increases by prof/2 change", that's way too OP and makes you tankier than many paladins or clerics, which is definitely not your role in combat. You are a striker and a melee debuffer/controller, you don't need to be a tank on top of that.
Which is why I think another free ASI or feat at lv 10 is appropriate. You want a free disengage? Get mobile. You want more battlefield control? Crusher or Sentinel. You want the same hit die as a barbarian? Tough. You want more AC and DPR? +2 Dex. You want more AC and cheaper stuns? +2 Wis.
@@dimitrisdimitriadis4913 As to the Armor IF you have 20s in both WIS and DEX you can get a good AC, a Fighter can get 20 with no magical equipment. If they are going to be the same "type" of character they should be able to operate in a similar environment. The reason for the free dash or disengage is that it's what Rogues can do 24/7, and it still costs your bonus action, which Monks get a lot of use out of.
Gloom Stalker can be an S tier class in certain campaigns. In Out of the Abyss, Umbral Sight is incredibly OP. It's not a situation where in one fight you'll have what is effectively Greater Invisibility (adv on attacks + disadv on attacks against you). You have it for the whole campaign. There's going to be a few instances where it gets canceled, such [EDIT: as in a small room with torches or such] as the Daylight spell. If you chose a lineage with darkvision, your darkvision is now 90 ft. So, you can try to maintain distance to prevent a spell like Daylight from canceling your Umbral Sight. Difficult but maybe not impossible. On the other hand, how many creatures in the underdark will even have the Daylight spell? More likely, they will be relying on their darkvision.
There's also the Dread Ambusher feature that gets 3 abilities within it. Most subclasses get only 1 or maybe 2 abilities. This is the norm. Features that provide more are generally overpowered unless the additional abilities are ribbon abilities. But obvs this is only a tad too strong - 10 ft movement boost isn't the end of the world.
Also worth noting that your party members using darkvision, cannot see you to cast spells on you. Including healing.
Could be bad if you go unconscious.
He has a video for this build, done like 1 year ago you should check it out. It's incredible for out of the abyss.
Nowadays you can even pick a lvl of twilight cleric and eldritch adept feat for devilsight
Wat about the strahd campaign
Should be mentioned: Rangers are the only divine caster that has to pick certain spells that they KNOW and can rarely change them out. Every other caster based on divine magic (cleric, druid, paladin) knows ALL their spells, and can pick and choose which spells they can prepare the next day with each long rest. But the designers decided rangers didn't suck bad enough already, and made them prepare just a couple spells that they know, like a bard or sorcerer. This pretty much ensures that rangers will only ever select a few particular combat-helpful spells, and will never learn or cast any ranger utility spells. Just another reason that rangers tend to be poorly designed compared to other classes.
Small point about horizon Walker. When the barbarian goes berserk and resists your normal damage, and you're the melee ranger, having that force damage is great because I did have the barbarian's health in one hit
I am not too sure if it came across to you that the beast master can use the feature to forgoe one attack multiple times a turn and isn't mutually exclusive to the command via the bonus action, through this you can use the attack action, forgoe one attack to let the beast make two if you're lvl 11+ (depending on how you read the feature you might even be able to forgoe both attacks, imho that is not very clear) and still use the bonus action to have it make two more attacks, netting you a nice five (or six) attacks. The beast also uses your spell modifier (wisdom) and if you picked druidic warrior as your fighting style you can be in combat with Shilllelagh, have good DCs for your spells AND a strong to hit for your beast.
But wait there is more:
If you are incapacitated the beast can take ANY action, that includes being unconscious due to being asleep, so it can take the night guard for you if you need that. This also means that you can still output damage if you are knocked to 0hp but not killed as it only dissappears on death (or resummon).
I love the flavor of whirlwind attack being Link’s spin attack~
I am binging on this entire series. I started with Monk and I want to thank you for convincing me to never run a Monk!
A few things to realize about the Ranger is this - Proficiency in all weapons, Medium Armor, and a d10 hit die. Basically, with at least 14 Dexterity, and Scale Mail (or, if wealthy enough, Breastplate or even better yet Half Plate), a Ranger gets 16-17 AC without a shield, comparable HP as a Fighter or Paladin, with the potential to do decent damage. Thus, they can stay near the wizard or sorcerer, who don't have much hp compared to even other spellcasters, and even lower AC, and just not that great at defending themselves up close, and thus can protect those spellcasters, all while doing distant damage. Also, should the main Tank, who is, let's say, holding a chokepoint, find themselves in a bind, wherein they have less than half their regular hp, a Ranger and go and say "Let's switch!", and now they can soak up the damage while the regular Tank heals and provides ranged assistance.
As usual your observations are astute. While mechanically the horizon walker really is a sub par ranger I really love the idea of a hasted ranger attacking 4 times a round while teleporting.
For me I really don’t care for the look and feel of the hand crossbow ranger. That said weaponizing your bonus action is needed. The extra damage by using the bonus action is something I like.
Have a fantastic day and thanks for all you do.
It doesn't solve all of the problems, but horde breaker is a little better if you have crusher, or some other way of forcing movement, since you can push enemies closer together so that the feature works.
Hey Chris, nice job dude!
Hope you make a mounted combat guide for medium size mounts and small heroes. Also, would be awesome if you make a build for “climbing onto bigger creature” rule..
Quick change to Hunter. At 3rd 7th and 11th they get all the choices. Not best but better. Also add spell list to PHB subclasses.
I love this series. Thank you!
I took up the challenge some time ago to make a playable beastmaster ranger in AL and went Kobold, which worked great. A Kobold anything is probably great, now, but that was before Tasha's. This pre-Tasha BM, however, was awesome.
My beast was Pteranadon, so I could ride it - and fly. I DM-rewarded myself a Gauntlets of Ogre Power, which was obscene. My character would "power dive" shouting something insane and stab the target from 10' w/ lance, then leave and go somewhere safe. If the DM allowed my Pteranodon's flyby to work for me, too, I could even do this to 10' reach monsters.
My character had trouble w/ all this, however, because the lance was quite big for him - and his mount was overzealous. Sometimes while attacking he'd shout "slow down slow down - noooO!" And I would pretend to make and fail some sort of dice check - and the DM would say "what are you doing?" - and I'd say "just go with it" - and then I'd explain I'd failed my dice roll, my mount had come in too fast, and it shot out from under me, leaving me hanging onto the end of my lance, with it sticking out of the ogre's butt. And I'm hanging there in mid air, sort of gently bouncing up and down hanging onto my lance, and I say "I meant to do that."
It always got laughs. Except from some DMs who were convinced I was up to no good - and were upset at my mobility. They inevitably attacked me the next round, and I'd say "How? I'm out of it's reach." "It moves here." "I'm hanging from a lance embedded in it's butt. If it moves here, it moves me here." At which point the DM would say, "I just hit you anyway." And ... I realize I've pushed them too far and have to accept it. Later they realize this is a "spoof" character or a "parody" character and would relax. I think it was a victory, however, that my lowly beastmaster (old type) got a DM so paranoid and worked up that they used "DM fiat" to "just hit me anyway" because I threatened them. As a beastmaster. Anyway, I'd sometimes Beg Grovel and Cower if my mount "had trouble finding me" next round, or it would swoop back and I'd get on, disengage, and fly away. Good times.
Now the lance shtick was too good to pass up. But a Kobold beastmaster w/ Sharpshooter and a sling or short bow - flying on a fast Pteranodon - that's probably more optimized. You use f.s. archery and pack tactics to mitigate the -5 to hit of SS - and it's pretty hard-hitting.
Fog cloud is on the Ranger list - cast that in the air to "blot out the sun" so that you and your target are not in direct sunlight, to beat sunlight sensitivity - and fog cloud is a good spell, anyway, of course.
If anyone asked where my Pteranodon came from, I said a partially rubbed-out tattoo was visible on the underside of one of its leather wings, and it possibly once read: "PROPERTY OF MULMASTER ZOO". :D
Seems like they could have just said your lance doesn't embed in the creature since that isn't a feature of the weapon.
@@mattf5935 you just made my inner child cry, Matt. You don't have to be this person. Really!
(hint, I'm not attacking you at all - of course you're right, but you seem to be missing the mirthfulness of my post up there! /wink. Relax a little. My BM was a "parody character" - he was meant for fun more than optimization, but he did pump out decidedly good damage - and would have pumped out stupid-good damage had he gone SS and ranged. The DM could have said a lot of things - I wasn't really fighting the DM, either, if I didn't make that clear - the point was that my ultra silly old style BM Ranger made the DM worried - because of his mobility (fastflying) and because of the sick damage he did. It's a given that DMs are in charge of their tables; we all know this)
I noticed that Horizon Walker's 11th lvl ability is actually counterproductive when used with the lvl 3 feature. The latter requires you to choose a certain creature, and if you miss on your first attack, well... You either are going to lose the third attack if you attack that target again, or you're going to lose your 2d8 damage.
Also, Monster Slayer's Supernatural Defence works on your Concentration saves since technically it's the enemy who causes them.
The Horizon Walker's level 3 still scales by an additional d8 at 11th-level, so you still get something. Also, you still get your teleports even when focus-firing a single enemy, just not as many of them. Honestly, I don't even look at that third attack as anything more than a ribbon. The main event is the teleports, and the third attack is simply there for cannon fodder battles.
I do think Horizon Walker's level 11 ability to attack 3 targets is pretty overhyped. If we're going to be critical of Arcane Archer's curving shot, which requires us to make one attack against our non-primary target, I think we should be even more critical of an ability that requires us to hit three different targets. That often won't be strategically better than two attacks on the same target. (Sometimes it will be a little better to hit three targets once, sometimes hitting one target twice will be better).
That said, at minimum the feature gives us a 20 foot teleport every round, 30 foot if we do choose to hit three targets. So...that part is nice.
My major problems with the Hunter subclass are first that many of the subclass features used to belong to *ALL* rangers at lower levels (Evasion, for example), which just annoys me, or they emulate Feats from 3.xE, but are demonstrably worse (take a look at 3E's Mobility, Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack feats). Frankly, I've done a total rewrite of this subclass in which the ranger gets to choose extra subclass abilities every time a new subclass ability is given and Evasion/Uncanny Dodge are given at lower levels, until ultimately the ranger character gains *ALL* of these subclass abilities. Though I don't think it makes this subclass the most powerful available to a ranger, it does kind of smooth out some of the inequities. I've also changed all of the melee abilities to read "within your reach" rather than "within five feet." That was mostly to give the ranger some inducement to play a (possibly polearm-wielding) melee character.
Also, I generally assume that if you're making a weapon attack, you're taking the Attack action. But I suppose I should rewrite the rewrite to say that you must use the Attack action to use Whirlwind Attack or Volley ...
I also think that both Beast Master and Hunter need to have extra spells added to their subclasses, and that rangers generally need to *TRULY* be treated as if they cast spells "much as a druid does" (PH, p. 91) and be able to change out their spells after every long rest, just exactly as a paladin or artificer (the other half-casters in the game) get to do. I therefore use the "Prepared Spells" mechanic of every other divine caster in the game for rangers.
Hey Treantmonk,
would you consider at some point doing a video on the triggering conditions of spells like glyph of warding, symbol or contigency? RAW there is almost like a black hole there, no limitations whatsoever, for example GoW can technically be used as the most powerful divination spell in the game(no dm would rule like that, but thats beside the point). I think it's a interesting topic(and not really talked about on forums that much) and having an input from you would help quite a bit.
Preemptive guess: Ranger has lots of C tier subclasses, with Fey and Swarm ranger being B tiers
Gloom Stalker is likely to surpass the other two. Somewhere in high B to low A I would guess.
I would guess the same thing
Favored Foe does have the advantage of essentially replacing Hunter's mark which frees up a spell slot or two to use for other things
I think it’s pretty valuable at low levels. Slightly better than the Dueling fighting style for example. At level 5 it loses quite a bit of steam though.
At this point, I'm keeping one eye out for the Rogue Video - I don't want to get Sneak Attacked.
I feel like I have to disagree on your analysis of web a little bit. They both cover area control spells, but the way they work I am glad to have both options.
The thing that web can do that spike growth is limited for is destroying action economy and the effectiveness of single targets. Spike growth can't do that. If I'm fighting a single very powerful creature, spike growth can let me get a bunch of extra damage on the target, but web allows me to impose disadvantage on their hits, advantage for my whole team, and then if they want to evade the penalties they have to spend an action to attempt to break free.
Combo this with someone who grapples a webbed enemy, and you can completely lock down a webbed target, and force them to waste all their actions to escape or suffer being almost completely unable to hit since they have disadvantage, their only saving grace being their ability to teleport or use effects with saving throws. And I can't quantify it, but I imagine the damage boost you get from your team having advantage on attacks can even out the damage you get from spike growth, but spike growth doesn't offer anywhere close to the same benefits of control.
I think what I like spike growth over web for is when I have a much larger battlefield or a lot of weaker enemies where I could potentially one-shot them or I can do a lot of damage by catching a lot of enemies at the same time in one spell.
TL;DR: Spike growth adds tons of damage for a lot of enemies, web destroys action economy of a couple enemies. Very different uses IMO, and I feel like you're underselling it as a 5th level feature, especially if another spellcaster isn't covering area control spells.
20:44 I used this ability every day for an entire campaign. Eventually yes, I did find a dragon.
Edit: I was playing a horizon walker, and I used it every day also, I did find a portal at one point, but I was on the road so I couldn't really investigate, but I made a note that we could go back and investigate.
Simple Ranger fix to align it to Paladin:
Pack Tactics
Starting at 6th level, whenever you or a friendly creature within 10 feet of you attacks your favored enemy, the creature gains a bonus to their attack roll equal to your Wisdom modifier (with a minimum bonus of +1). You must be conscious to grant this bonus.
At 18th level, the range of this feature increases to 30 feet.
My dm allowed me to use sidekick rules on the beast for the original version of the feature in a one shot. At level 6 my panther obsidian had a +11 to attack, 32 hit points, and 18 ac with studded leather.
Gloomstalker ended up around where I thought it would but being "dead easy to optimize" does bring up a very important question: is this tier list evaluating power or ease of achieving power as they are very different criteria and casters undeniably have a harder time with the latter due to their higher customization. Really looking forwards to see how this shakes up the final 3 casters 2 weeks from now, especially the high-ceiling/low-floor sorcerer.
As always, my tier list bumps every letter up 1 because that makes more sense to me to have broken classes as SS and the other best classes as S etc.
SS: Moon, Twilight, Peace
S: Shepard, Eloquence, Watchers, Conquest, Vengeance, Echo Knight, GLOOMSTALKER
A: Trickery, Forge, Lore, Valor, Redemption, Glamour, Creation, Ancients, Devotion, Rune Knight, Wildfire, Stars, Glory, Light, Arcana, Oathbteaker, Crown, Armorer, Battle Smith, Battlemaster
B: Tempest, Order, Life, Spirits, Spores, SWARMKEEPER, FEY WANDERER, Death, Knowledge, Grave, Whispers, Nature, War, Land, Zealot, BEASTMASTER2, Samurai, Eldritch Knight, Dream, Artillerist, Psi Warrior, Ancestral Guardian, Totem Warrior, HORIZON WALKER
C: MONSTER SLAYER, HUNTER, Mercy, Arcane Archer, Beast, Storm Herald, Wild Magic, Cavalier, Purple Dragon Knight, Champion
D: Shadow, Open Hand, Berserker, Battlerager, Long Death, Kensei, BEASTMASTER1
F: Alchemist, Drunken Fist, Astral Self, Four Elements, Sun Soul
The one I'll be watching out for most will be the Wizard. Specifically, because when cutting off tier 3 and tier 4, they lose a lot of what makes them eventually overtake other classes. This is how I can see ranking half casters like Gloomstalker, Conquest, and Watchers ahead of full casters like Lore, Light or Stars seem. Rangers and Paladins likely mutliclass in tier 2.
I believe the tier list is about ease of optimization and overall power level. It's both.
I like your list. Would shift a few things, but it's solid.
Waiting for that swarmkeeper build now. xD
Another great one - well argued, balanced reasoning!
My DM does a ton of really good exploring stuff. So the PHB explorer abilities are pretty dope.
By dope, you mean it entirely solves many of the normal obstacles of Wilderness Survival. Add in Goodberry and you are basically set.
Just like I like it.
@@dylanba5251 Naw. But it lets my character overcome them.
@@davidtobias6893 My issue is often it means the DM doesn't run said situations so its just skipped over
@@dylanba5251 No. We had a lot of very mechanical ways of playing it out with exhaustion and stuff so foraging was neccessary and needing to not wear armor in the desert that then fed into the role playing and I still had to make some rolls and stuff. Plus the terrain is pretty varient so I might have a favored terrain in one spot but then need to rely on just basic ranger shit which still gets a bump later. I am aabout to hit 6th level and for combat I kinda wanted to go rogue but im really torn because I want the explorer and favored enemy add ons. Good type of conflict to have
If I understand Beguiling Twist correctly then it's technically possible to activate the fear/charm effect on another creature when the first creature that has been under Beguiling Twist's fear/charm effect saves against it. Meaning you can potentially keep this ability up permanently by going between at least 2 creatures within range.
wow! i hadnt played a ranger yet so i still had the belief that favored enemy gave you a bonus to hit and damage against your enemy in addition to the flavor
I think Horizon Walker's flavor is really cool. And I would change it by giving it the d8 damage for free and requiring a bonus action to turn the damage into force damage. Basically, something like - you get a d8 damage once on your turn. You can use bonus action to turn that attack into force damage. And on level 11, that bonus action increases the bonus damage to 2d8. I think that's a fair trade off, since 2d8 damage isn't bad, even once per turn.
Stalker's Flurry has one advantage over giving, well, Advantage. If the enemy has partial cover from one of its allies, and you miss by 2 or less, you hit that enemy's ally and still trigger this bonus attack, getting one more attack.
I have a golgari hunter ranger at my table. I offered her primal awareness when Tasha's came out and she preferred to stay with primeval because it suited the flavor of the character better.
Gathered swarm does its thing after successfully hitting an attack. So at level 5 you can get that done up to two times per turn. Granted, if you miss you get none of it, but it does scale a bit.
I just did some calculating, and I just realized something - Variant Human or Custom Lineage Ranger could be the ultimate Linguist.
1 - V. Human and Custom Lineage get 2 languages - Common and one other. (Starting with 2)
2 - Linguist Feat grants three languages. (up to 5)
3 - A number of Backgrounds offer extra languages - some offer two. (Up to 7)
4 - Go Ranger. Pick Humanoids as Favored Enemy, for 2 more languages. (Up to 9)
5 - Take Rover, and grab two more languages. (up to 11!)
With potentially 11 languages at Level 1, a ranger will be able to understand and talk to most any one.
Slight note, Favored Enemy gives only one language. Even if you pick two types of Humanoids, you have to choose one of their languages. So it's 10, not 11. Still a lot tho.
@@antongrigoryev6381 Okay - and some backgrounds offer only 1 extra language (or none at all). Still, a total of 8 languages at Level 1 is quite a bit - been trying to make Milo from Atlantis The Lost Empire - a 1 level dip into Ranger might be what this Linguist/ Cartographer needs, and then swap him over to Bard or Cleric, or Wizard, in order to get Tongues....
What do you think?
@@lockwoan01 Actually, you can get 10 languages at level 1 without using the custom lineage system.
1-2: V Human: Common + 1 language
3-4: Background: +2 languages
5-7: Linguist Feat: +3 languages
8: Favored Enemy: +1 language
9-10: Deft Explorer: +2 languages
So it is a 9-10 if you use the Linguist Feat. The problem is that I don't see much point in taking the Linguist Feat unless you play a RP heavy game with a lot of languages. Having 6 languages are enough in most settings. A standard sage Wizard is only going to have 4. You need to leave room for the other players to shine.
@@Cloud_Seeker Well, the idea behind having 10+ languages *is* meant for a *Linguist* build.
Also, to be honest, most Everyone "Knows" Common, or the equivalent in the game system, and them that don't, well, the DM tends to home-rule that the one doing the speaking for the group to the Party does know how to speak and understand Common.
I know that it's not necessarily a group-friendly playstyle unless accounted for, but it IS notable that the ranger gets access to both Fog Cloud and the Blind Fighting fighting style without having to multiclass to bring that combo to the table.
The bell curve grows!
Personally, in the light of how Xanathar's and Tasha's has added to the Rangers (to say nothing about the potential potency of the additional subclasses), I'd house-rule the Hunter Ranger as having *all* the abilities that it would normally have to pick and chose from. If nothing else, it would become more versatile, and versatility in combat tends to be good.
Beguiling Twist: you get Charm Person at level 3. You can trigger this yourself. You basically get a second shot at charming, which you can turn into frightening but need to use on another target, that can be used in up to 120 feet. And that's ignoring the chance of that coming up on its own.
With regards to the Horizon Walker, I once played one at a table where the DM's homebrew setting was all about a world covered in planar portals that caused constant problems. So I used Detect Portal all the time, and it still wasn't very good.
Anyway, this is probably the list I agree with most so far. I still don't like the ranger's design, but it's hard for them to ever be terrible when they have Archery, Hunter's Mark, and Extra Attack. And now that Tasha's has replaced their bad features with better ones, they're pretty good. It's absolutely ridiculous that anyone would ever compare rangers to monks.
Too bad the Ranger's level 14, 18 and 20 features are still there with no replacements and still suck. :(
@@tiradegrandmarshal Most of those are...granted, not impressive for the level but certainly at least useable.
Bonus action hide is fine; yeah, rangers get it at 14, and rogue gets that at level 2, but rogues definitely use it.
Blindfighting is fine. Ranger can get that from a fighting style now, but this feature has more range, and lets them pick another fighting style.
The capstone is alright--basically gives rangers a free once per round precision attack as long as they're hitting a favoured foe/favoured enemy. Probably should have gotten this feature way earlier, like maybe level 6 or something, but it's a feature that I would expect to get used, and expect to provide a damage bump.
I was burned by a beast master ranger on my second dnd campaign. It was a hard fall going from bear totem barbarian to beast master ranger. It was a slog to get to third level, and the circumstances of the game prevented me from getting a beast companion so I basically had no subclass for two sessions until we were all caught and killed. And it was worse because we had a swashbuckling rouge who out damaged me every chance he got and a vadelkien wizard who was infinitely more useful. I used hunters mark and hail of thorns, but when those ran out I used my lizard folk bite attack more then any of my features from ranger. Years later I tried gloom stalker and that balanced my opinion on ranger, but when I came back to it I realized it doesn’t deliver on its core principle. Sure the class and subclasses are playable now, but when I joined a campaign with the hook of dragon hunters I thought “how bout a ranger who specialized on dragons?” And then I looked at their abilities and they have no real benefits to picking a favored foe or enemy, like how paladins and clerics are excellent at dealing with undead. Ranger could’ve been a class that was close to a fighter or paladin, but then when confronted with beasts and some other type of monster would be extremely dangerous, and then be really good at finding them. Instead we got a class that had to be cobbled into a workable character with half its useless features being replaced. It went from bad to bland.
The Ranger was interesting in the early versions of the game when it was similar to a nerfed Eldritch Knight. I would like to see where the Drake Warden falls on the list.
I played a Horizon Walker Ranger through most of Curse of Strahd prior to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and I absolutely felt bonus action starved. Almost every turn I had to carefully decide what to use my bonus action on because, for some reason, I was also the party healer (and somehow also the party face as a Kenku; our party composition was kind of a mess to be honest and everybody but me was a murderhobo). I chose Horizon Walker because I knew we would be starting at level 3 and be fighting creatures resistant or immune to non-magical damage so I figured that Horizon Walker would be the best choice to overcome that. Though, reflecting back on it, I ended up reading the level 3 bonus action for force damage incorrectly because I was treating it as "your next attack becomes force damage" rather than all attacks against the target deals force damage. Unfortunately, my DM did not end up correcting me either. The limitation of "within 30-feet" is surprisingly limiting as someone who wants to be as far back as possible with a bow.
Ended up multiclassing into cleric and becoming good alignment for plot-item reasons, so I think the final build was Horizon Walker Ranger 8/Life Cleric 2. Even though we got dealt a terrible hand (all relics were in Strahd's castle and no one was cleric so I had to become one because it made the most sense) and our quest ended in failure (DM played very intelligently like Strahd should imo and there was an unexpected turn of events which left us down a player character), it felt good to basically carry the party using Life Cleric healing boost paired with Healing Spirit before it got nerfed while using the relic to burn Strahd away while he was stuck inside our wizard's Wall of Force sphere.
What people want for ranger is an equivalent to paladin smite. An obvious signposted "this is how you deal damage" ability.
Hunter's mark is litteraly that, but I see what you're getting at. They should have a way to do it that doesn't invalidate their entire spell list.
Was toying around with the idea of pairing either Fey Wanderer Ranger or Conquest Paladin with the Dragon Fear feat, especially with the UA version of Dragonborn where breath weapon is moved to PB/long rest rather than 1/short rest. Dragon Fear is not a feat I see come up often, and I don't exactly blame people for that as it requires being a Dragonborn AND losing the one cool thing Dragonborn get, but the synergy seems really high with the subclasses' respective level 7 features.
Pre tasha it made some sense to do dragonborn conquest pally since at least you had the necessary stats
Switching breath for dragon fear wasn’t that bad either if your charisma was higher than your con
I have a dragonborn conquest paladin with the dragonfear feat that I've been playing since shortly after Xanathar's came out. He is my favorite character and dragonfear has been great, especially before you hit level 9 and get the fear spell.
Having 2 frighten abilities per SR means you can use these abilities consistently.
As for Rogue guesses next week: Arcane Trickster in B, Assassin in F, everything else around the C and D range.
I don't think Assassin if F just because Rogue itself isn't that bad of a class.
Rogue will be in 2 weeks. Next week I have a build vid coming out.
While I dislike Assassin and think it's overall very weak there are ways to optimize it and make a strong character with it and just for that I doubt it'll get an F
I think even without gaining surprise, assassinate's advantage on all your attacks (at the start of basically every combat) can be pretty great on a multiclass build -particularly with elven accuracy. -Even on a straight rogue it deserves a little more credit. Thief gets a climb speed, to jump faster and can sometimes throw caltrops or pick a pocket in combat as a bonus action.
@@elliotbryant3459 The problem with the advantage part of Assassinate is needing to beat initiative. Which the Assassin does not excel at any more than any other subclass of Rogue. It really needed an in-subclass initiative-boosting feature of some sort (proficiency bonus for initiative, for example, would've been nice). Because of that, you're pretty much obligated to take the Alert feat right away if you want to use even *that* part of Assassinate with any degree of consistency. On top of that, the introduction of the Aim feature in Tasha's has diminished the value of that part of Assassinate even further.
The thing about the ranger that i dislike the most is the dumb spells known mechanic, if they had spells prepared they would be so much better their default list is really nice, it would have been so nice if the revised ranger from Tasha's had spells prepared. :(