Eric Carr reveals: Mark St. John was "arrogant" in the studio
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- In a revealing interview excerpt from July 18, 1985, Eric Carr, the second drummer for KISS, opens up about a crucial chapter in the band's history. Eric sheds light on his experiences collaborating with the new KISS guitarist, Mark St. John, during the recording of the Animalize album in the summer of 1984. However, the experience wasn't without its challenges, as Eric Carr, along with Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, had to contend with Mark's "arrogant" behaviour, ultimately leading to a confrontation where the trio pulled Mark aside and "let him have it."
The Animalize album marked a triumphant return to platinum status for KISS, but the challenges continued as Mark St. John developed arthritis in his left hand, which prevented him from joining KISS on tour. This obstacle prompted KISS to enlist the talents of lead guitarist Bruce Kulick for the European leg of the tour.
In December 1984, the inevitable occurred. KISS made the strategic move to part ways with Mark and welcomed Bruce Kulick into the fold. The decision to hire Bruce came as no surprise, given Mark's strained relationship with Eric Carr, Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, and his ongoing struggles with arthritis.
Eric Carr's candid insights offer a unique glimpse into the dynamics and challenges faced by KISS during a pivotal period in their journey.
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If you like the Eric Carr Revealed videos, then you will love The Rise of the Fox: 1950-1982, the first volume of the Eric Carr Revealed series. The unauthorized biography is available in English in e-book format worldwide through Amazon
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Explore the remarkable story of Eric Carr as he tells stories about his life and working with KISS through this revealing interview segment. Subscribe now to @ericcarrrevealed and be the first to see new revealing Eric Carr videos each week.
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Eric had a huge impact on me as a teenager. Hearing how disfunctional that band was known to be, he always soldiered on proudly and gave his best. I'd heard he'd started doing these crazy drum solos, where he runs around the outside of his humongous kit, bashing away at every piece in a frenzy! Sure enough, he went completely mental for like 10min. It was well done and very professional. This was no gimmick. This dude just oozed raw talent. Very influential to see live.
Mark St. John was extremely talented. That can't be argued. If only he'd had his head on straight. And hadn't had such a tragic journey and end. RIP.
Very sad, but Kiss survived succeeded, and went forward. October 2023.USA
Eric Carr was my favorite member. He was super cool when I met him
Kind of think Gene and Paul would have saved themselves a bunch of headaches, if they would have listened to Bob Kulick and hired Bruce to replace Ace from the beginning
there is this moustache story ... small price to pay to play in KISS in those days
It worked out in the end.
But then Lick It Up never would have been as great as it is.
Or me?
@@davidzabel5195 Exactly 👍🏼
Rest in peace Eric Carr. You like Peter Criss are an inspiring drummer to me. 🥁
Eric Carr is a fantastic drummer and I say that in the present tense as his work can still be heard to this day. R.I.P bro x
Well said!!! He was the love of my life!! ❤
I remember having a copy of this interview with Eric. Enjoyed it quite a bit. I was surprised when I first heard that story of Eric talking about Mark being arrogant
Yeah, Eric usually doesn't say anything negative about people, so Mark must have really ticked him off for Eric to remember the incident a year after it happened
Eric was a very well rounded musician. Very qualified to have an opinion on guitar and bass sounds. Mark showed himself to the door.
Interesting...but strange that he says Mark was doing "Exciter"...almost makes you wonder if he was actually talking about Vinnie? I guess he just got the song title mixed up, if he was actually talking about Mark.
I think Eric just got the songs mixed up. Eric seems to have vivid memories of his run-in with Mark, so I'm sure it wasn't Vinnnie
Solo in exciter is Rick derringer
Eric was probably thinking of the song Into the Fire
Just read your book, I love it and I like how detailed it is, really looking forward to volume 2 and hopefully you will also release the volumes in paperback in the future because I will definitely buy them.
Thanks! I'm so glad you enjoyed it. I'm currently working on volume 2, which is called Drums of Thunder. I've received many calls for the book to be released in paperback and hardcover
Interesting. I never heard anything like this about St. John. But I can believe it because he did have mad skills and surely thought KISS was beneath him. As with many great bands KISS were a sum of their parts. Not individually stellar musicians but they created magic as a band which is what its all about.
Well Priest and Purple were great musicians, but they past the stage of show how good they were and just applying different things when needed as expression.
They could do Sinner or Ram it down as well than just Grinder or Before the dawn, they were confident in what they did and past their ego.
Doing more spacy songs with less notes is a lot harder than people might think especially put smartly, as impactfull.
Especially when you have a big motor skill underneath..
Not beign tempted is hard first to do more than required.
Same with Purple, Speed King, You Fool No One are show off kind of songs, rightfully, but Soldier of fortune, Sail Away, Into the Fire or smoke on the water are in more restrained approach.
But when you put your ego behind and see in a longer distance, you have no problem to do a 4 bars song with 2 verses, 2 or 4 transition fills and choruses, without the worrying if people would say you can't play anymore or not.
Its not about how " technically " or flashy you are, its about how you put things to make great things that would affirm an unique entity, what you say.
As great funk guys said, who could play from new orleans, be bop, blues, big band, samba like Purdie,,Jabo,the old guard, when you're at 100, 200% everytime, when you do a solo or a peak, where do you go from there, ? Without sounding ridiculous.
And how many options do you have when you face the wall ?
And also, when you take 70% of the cake, what have the others still ?
He must have meant I've Had Enough, because Exciter was on the Lick it Up album and Vinnie Vincent was the lead guitarist for that album.
¿Mark played bass in the track "Exciter"? That track is from one year before Mark was in the band. I think Eric was referring to "I've enough into the fire", "While the city sleeps" or "Murder in High Heels".
Congratulations on 800 Subscribers on UA-cam! 🎉
Thanks!!
I heard the same story about Mark insulting Eric from a guest that was on Three Sides of the Coin. Hearing Eric actually tell the story- wow! Shame that happened. The thing I noticed after Vinnie and Mark’s times in Kiss, everyone who subsequently joined were people that Gene and Paul knew before. That’s why Bruce, Eric Singer and Tommy were in the band so long.
i bet he meant ive had enough(into the fire) or thrills in the night. its the only two off animalize off the top of my head that have a similar musical vibe to exciter.
Mark played the second half of a show and 2 complete shows.
I was at one of those half shows in Baltimore....everyone went batshit crazy when he came out. It was kind of inconsequential to me, however, as I was hopelessly in love with Eric! 😸❤️
@@MissAlthea
Wow!!!
KISStoric show!
I will be going to USA to see them in Baltimore!
Do you know if it’s the same arena??
@@ALF.Argentina Yes, same arena but it is under a different name now. I basically stopped following KISS after Eric's passing....plus, I am an OG Ace Girl and WILL NOT/CANNOT accept Tommy as the Spaceman......
Definitely, my favorite Kiss album of the 80s, "Animalize" 😏...Now granted, I did NOT hear the Creatures of the Night album "back then" and so, yeah... Animalize WAS/IS in that nostalgic class factor for sure, going into my teenage era BACK in the daze. JUST fast forward the Heavens on Fire 2nd track (OR go with it, usually 😒, as we ARE talking cassette daze) and ROCK the funk ON! And? NOT really a "Kiss fan" personally but, yeah! KILLER album IMO. ALWAYS LOVED Mark St John's addition to the album, and of course Eric Carr's drumming! 😎🤘🔥🤘
well, it could not have been "Exciter" - that song was on the album prior, Lick it Up. Mark didn't play on that album
Certanly he be confused with I’ve had enough. Fast and furious like Exciter. And opem álbum song too
Overqualified was an overstatement
Is it? Mark never accomplished bupkis by himself. You can be the flashiest player in your bedroom but that means nothing.
I had read a French interview with Mark Saint Jones. He said that Kiss had the level of 4th year guitarist of his students. That they were very average musicians. He had recorded songs but that Gene erased everything.
Generous
I'll take a songwriter with adequate chops over a trained musician , adept in theory but who has nothing to offer creatively.
@@PlayerToBeNamedLater1973 He was composing recorded and Gene said it wasn't written by kiss. So he deleted everything.He implied that he didn't know if they were the ones who composed their songs.Maybe in Motley Crue Nikki sixx didn' t play the bass on the albums.
@@ericgisclon8122 Well that is not true the producer for their albums confirmed in an interview that Nikki did infact play the bass parts himself.
@@_vixen_4504 Very strange with Nikki Sixx.A American musician arranger told me that many well-known musicians, even virtuosos, could call on arrangers (with extensive musical background) who composed and played for them.Nobody knows what happens in the kitchen when you're in the dining room.
Exciter was from Lick it up.
Which song it would be?
Maybe I’ve had enough…
Maybe I had a copy of the interview before and when the interview starts Eric said that he was out drinking the night before so he might have forgotten about what song it was
right
Out of the cold into the fire!
I so miss Eric Carr. ❤
Peter Criss seemed to dislike Mark as well when they worked together in the 80s.
I take anything Criss says with a grain of salt. Massive hypocrite.
Peter Criss saw that Mark was collecting German kiddie porn mags. Then Mark asked Pete to hold an 8-ball for him, and Peter flushed it.
He was so good he did nothing, nothing.
Mark was awesome guitar player with his own style
He must of been an outright prick to piss Eric of everyone no s he was such a down to earth sweetheart rip ledgend U still live on in many hearts peace and love lloydy
Must of? What's the contraction, must'f?
I was privileged to have spent some time with Mark St. John. We were neighbors in Garden Grove California where he lived down the road from Gary Street. A great personality but at the time, we were into the nitty gritty (If you know what I mean). I remember seeing him in his garage grinding away on his guitars which led to me giving him a grinder which he needed, (Sorry Dad, Mark St. John needed it [White Lion, Kiss!]).
I remember one night we got pretty wired and we climbed a gated apartment building and took a dip in the facility's jacuzzi. With excitement rushing through us as we scaled the gates, and then eased in the jacuzzi, I enquired what was it like to have played with Kiss. He responded with "how would you like to be around a bunch of New Yorkers" as we laughed intently.
On another occasion, we were hanging out in his garage where guitars and shiny albums were crowded onto his garage walls. I was awe struck at this Kramer electric guitar that I couldn't keep my eyes off and asked if I could take it down from its pedestal. As a gentle giant that Mark was, he concurred and plug it into an amplifier, and I started jamming. I was crazy about this electric Kramer which played like a jewel. I played a rift I had created in the years that I had played guitar and he asked me to play it again. To my astonishment, Mark admired my rift asked me to forge on and to finish the song. Till this day, I haven't completed it. As I was chomping away on the guitar, Mark handed me a guitar magazine. He swiped through the pages and stopped on a page where Eddie Van Halen was holding the same guitar I held in my hand. He looked at me smiled and went on doing what he was doing. Apparently, all the famed rockers knew Mark and partied hard with him. From the likes of Motley Crue to Van Halen that came over to bark at the moon till dawn.
I know he had regrets and I'm sure he would have done more and accomplished many feats if it wasn't for the arthritis. It was a pleasure to make you acquaintance Mark St. John. God bless and I know you are jamming on the other side. Btw.......KNAC rocks!!!
You were in tight with those guys. I’m surprised you were never in Kiss
@@teledan105 no. With Mark only.
Btw. Tell us a story about you. Anything interesting? Probably not.
It's almost like YOU partied hard with Motley Crue and Van Halen, knowing Mark St Joh and all.
@@teledan105 In his mind he was a big star like Mark St John.
That's the same thing KISS said about Vinnie
I am confused as sounds like he is talking about Lick it up. Also that song is credited to Vinnie Vincent, not Mark St John, although it wasn’t actually him playing it was Rick Derringer. Also Eric was about 4 ft 2 so c’mon.
He confused the songs, that's all, which is easy for them to do. Paul does it frequently. Eric was 5'7" and Mark was 6'1"
@Eric So what was the song and was it Mark St John as by all accounts Mark was a nice guy I seem to remember Paul saying and if anyone had issues on that album it was Eric who’s work required drum overdubs. Peter Criss wasn’t available 😉 so I believe they brought in Allan Schwartzberg.
@@misfit2022 truth!
@@ericcarrrevealedEric was the same height as hide of X Japan ❤ Had to put that out there....Eric was the love of my life and I am obsessed with hide, sooooo.... May they both rest in peace and I hope they are jamming together in Rock and Roll Heaven!!! ❤🤘
Exciter was off Lick It Up. Before Mark joined. Wondering if Eric is confused about Mark and Vinnie.
I don't think he is confusing Mark with Vinnie. I think Eric just named the wrong song. I interviewed Mark about 20 years ago, and I could tell he was very short, to the point, and readily put people down. I liked Mark's playing on Animalize, but he his personality didn't fit with KISS
Mark also had good things to say about Eric, though, years later.
He said he thought Eric Carr was the best musician in KISS.
Mark St. John was the right guy for a little while, but life brought a better guitarist in Bruce Kulick
I noticed on the recent live set, Mark would begin solo's a measure early every single time.
Wow. Gene and Paul would have you believe that Eric was some sort of golly gee whiz milquetoast from the way they talk about him now. Sounds like he was quite the contrary.
Mark was the best guitarist they ever had. Animalize might be the best album they did.
Nice of the interviewer to keep shouting *YEA* so Eric knew the interview was still going.
I don't think he means Exciter.
You're correct. Eric confused the songs
HOLY HELL I didn't realize Mark was that arrogant 3 weeks in!! WOW.
Eric is clearly mistaken. Exciter was released on Lick It Up in 1983 when VV was in the band. Mark didn’t join until well after the LIU album was released. So, this entire story is wrong as far as the song is concerned. All of a sudden VV didn’t seem so bad, huh?
Eric confused the song, but I believe Eric's story about the disagreement is true
Pretty sure he's talking about Vinnie Vincent?
No, I don't think so. He likely just got the songs mixed up.
Animalize was the band's best collection in years, helped in no small measure by the contributions of the group's new guitarist, Mark St. John. - The Encyclopedia of Pop, Rock & Soul
I like Animalize. I think it's one of their best albums of the 1980s, but I don't think we can attribute that to Mark's playing. No doubt, he was a talented guitarist, but Animalize has some really good songs on it
This sounds like Paul. It's not Eric, is it?
Eric had a similar speaking voice.
This is definitely Eric Carr and not Paul
And Gene and Paul are the epitome of humility? Geeze.
😂
Super 😂🇫🇷
They certainly are professional but humble? 😂
You would have thought it impossible for Gene and Paul to hire an even bigger lemon than Vinnie as their new lead guitarist. But they pulled it off when they chose St. John.
Vinnie was also a great songwriter. He wrote the singles for Creatures AND Lick it Up (wrote almost the whole album, btw).. and they brought Vinnie back 10 yrs later to write the single for Revenge, "Unholy"- easily the best song on the album
ps. the lemon was Kulick; no unique style, no personality, and couldn't sing or write anything
*Or were Paul & Gene the lemons at that point, really?
Ummm no. Vinnies contributions were incredible songs
Omg this is earthshaking news
It may be all true but that that St. John was a very technical player but that doesn't mean that he wasn't an asshole after being in a major band for only three weeks! (As Eric said)
And when we all know that Eric never talked bad about anyone, I can only imagine how of and a hole St. John was!!! As technichal a play he was I don't think he was a fit fo KISS at all ! And remember St. John didn't write any songs on Animalize, he didn't even played rythm guitars other than on two songs! And Kullick even played the solos on two of the songs!!!! So that album had still be great without St. John, because he really didn't do that much! (Other than being arrogant)
St. John claimed Gene and Paul wouldn't let him write songs. I saw that in an interview of a metal magazine my brother had. My brother was a big KISS fan and saw them more than 3 times back in the day. 2:18
@@waltersimmons946 And good for them (Gene and Paul) when we later heard what St. John was capable of writing later for White Tiger!
Thanks to Paul and Gene i say!
@dennisdevelin St John is dead so it's really water long passed under the Rock n Roll bridge.
@@waltersimmons946 I know he is dead, but i thought your post was a about the mans writing skills? I was obviously wron then my friend..
Aka the talented athlete/ hot chick w a strong personality
Well after Mark was dismissed from kiss he started white tiger not long before his passing away.
Actually, Mark started White Tiger directly after leaving KISS. The band released their self-titled album in 1986. Mark also worked on a project with actor David Hasslehoff. He didn't appear on the album but was in the video "I Everybody Happy" in 1989. In 1999, Mark released the EP (CD) Mark St. John Project. It had only 5 songs. His final release was in 2003, and called Magic Bullet Theory, which contains 11 tunes and all are instrumental (no vocals).
His anyone ever listened to the solo work of Mark St.John? I've got the White Tiger CD. Very fast, but uninspired guitar work.
A Californian (former student of Mark) told me that when Mark was there Eddie Van Halen didn't want to play on stage. It was in 1976-1977.
@@ericgisclon8122 goes to show that all the chops in the world don't mean a thing if you have no songs
@@PlayerToBeNamedLater1973 You re right..but it seems he never was lucky.Akways troubles..
@@ericgisclon8122 St John was unfortunate enough to acquire a guitar players worst nightmare autoimmune rheumatism . I have a bit of arthritis in my hands but I wasn't being pursued by major label bands in the first place lol
I want to say that I stopped following KISS when they removed their makeup. I saw them as sellouts.
KISS's popularity wasn't just their music but their makeup, costumes, big stage shows. They seemed otherworldly. There was a whole running joke about never seeing them without make-up on. The whole "Unmasked" album and the video clip of "Shandi" is based on this.
But then they removed their makeup for the world to see. Soon, they were just another big hair band who were compared to Motley Crue, Poison or Van Halen, in a time where those bands were prominent, so they no longer stood out.
I bet Gene hated it too, because he loves money, and they would have missed out on a lot of merchandise sales, since it had images of them in makeup. Also, because there wasn't talk of them ever going back to the makeup, they would have had to sell their merch cheap.
It was a terrible day and the stupidest decision ever to remove the makeup.
When they removed their makeup, their personas left with it. The first I noticed was that Gene's singing style was hella different than before. Then the rest of the band's differences started surfacing. They DEFINITELY were not KISS anymore.
@bobproctor-ne9tghello, fan of the group I'm french ~Just one question : I say Paul and Gene don't do drugs People tell me they do and I say no they don't 🤔
Your all nuts !!! Animalize was a strong album for kiss ; and been in the kiss army since 77. .Mark did some amazing guitar work on that album and I could bet my bottom dollar that Gene and Paul would agree .. and actually is one of the last great kiss albums as they went down hill after animalize
I agree that Animalize is a great album. It has some amazing songs on it and Mark's playing was great. I don't think Paul and Gene were ready to compete with shredding guitar player. They didn't want Vinnie's guitar work to overshadow them, so it amazes me that they were looking for a shredder to replace him. Bruce fit in much better because he is more of team player and he came from the same rock/blues influences as Ace and Paul.
And what's your point?! That is all true but that doesn't mean that he wasn't an asshole after being in a major band for only three weeks! (As Eric said)
And when we all know that Eric never talked bad about anyone, I can only imagine how of and a hole St. John was!!! As technichal a play he was I don't think he was a fit fo KISS at all ! And remember St. John didn't write any songs on Animalize, he didn't even played rythm guitars other than on two songs! And Kullick even played the solos on two of the songs!!!! So that album had still be great without St. John, because he really didn't do that much! (Other than being arrogant)
Eric carr didn't have a five year contract..
Mark St. John did not play well. He was fast, but only in the way a teenage guitarist who just broke to the next level on the speed picking barrier. It lacked melodicism and originality. It's actually cringey to hear the live bits of his solos today.
Should of kept VINNIE
They let him have it? Lmfao
I get tired of that your the drummer what do you know shit from others in the band...it burns my ass...ive played guitar for 35 years, bass, drums recorded my own music all myself and sang on my songs....these assholes only know one instrument...so it's tiring to hear that disrespect from other musicians when you are a drummer. This is why I took my skills and left...bye everyone. I'm a lot happier.
Awesome...put an arrogant person in their place!!!!
Mark St. Norton.
Mark St John got a lot of nerve
I knew it - kicked out ..didnt do the job - couldnt play the same thing twice - not my words "quote"
That's what Paul said in his autobiography
Peter Criss' autobiography claims he caught Mark St. John with kiddie porn, when they were in a band together in the late 80's.
Really? Then Peter is an accessory to a crime. Same as when Paul said in his autobiography that Bill said he had sex with a minor. I think it's very interesting that people tend to pick on others who have died (and can't defend themselves) and they don't think of the possible ramifications of admitting they witnessed a crime. Hmm, I wonder why they would write those kind of things?
How could a nobody with no resume be considered “overqualified” for a group that’s widely considered one of the best rock groups ever. Makes zero sense
I think Eric means that Mark's musical background. For instance, he knew music theory, and could play jazz and classical. This is very much the same as Randy Rhodes, Steve Via, and Tony MacAlpine. Sure, they shred, and they have the musical knowledge to do that. KISS, on the other hand, are self-taught musicians and they emphasize the performance. I think Mark could musically run circles around KISS, but Mark did really have a good idea of how to perform. Also, Mark wouldn't be the type of guitarist to typical rock progressions, such as a 12 bar blues. He would have fallen asleep. They guys in KISS, particularly Ace, would love to jam or write songs using these types of progressions. So, Mark is "overqualified" because of his deep music theory knowledge and application of that knowledge. In my opinion, that is not what KISS ever needed.
Because he has actual talent....Kiss isn't exactly talented, musically.
HE was trouble (Mark)
exciter is off of lick it up
Yes, Eric got the songs confused, which is acknowledge in the written notes in video
Wow.... in KISS for 3 weeks and already swearing at them....! Over questioning a note choice...? Bizarre....? Was he on drugs back then to...?
He couldn't play the same thing twice
That's probably Paul Stanley BS though..most likely he could do it.
Paul was in the control room he would know
Eric Carr was a terrible drummer (especially live when he played every song at the hyper fast tempo, more than double what was needed, butchering those songs completely) but as a human being, probably one of the nicest to be in the same band with.
KISS sped up the songs on purpose during the Animalize and Asylum tours because they were trying to appeal to the new fans. Gene and Paul would not have put up with Eric speeding up the songs every night unless they directed him to. They rehearsed playing the songs faster prior to the tour. KISS did not double the speed as you suggest. For example, Cold Gin would have been a mere two and half minutes on the Animalize Uncensored video. G&P wanted the songs sped up, so do not blame Eric
@@ericcarrrevealed doesn't make any sense to me, but whoever was responsible for speeding up those tempos that much that it made all those great songs unbearable to listen to, was completely out of his mind back then and seriously lacking musicality.
You make that kind of decisions usually while drugged out of your head, but that obviously wasn't the case here.
Drummer is responsible for the tempos as far as i'm concerned, that's why i point my finger on Eric.
Musically that era was the lowest point for KISS.
Mark did have a point a drummer should never critique a guitar player. As such, a guitar player should never tell a drummer. It's just etiquette, eric carr was not a god
Where did you learn that “etiquette?” A wrong note is a wrong note, no matter *who* in the band hears it. What should have been the “correct etiquette?” Whisper into Gene’s ear “Better tell him he played a bad note, I can’t say anything because I am just a drummer?” Oh, wait….Gene’s just a bass player, better go get Paul. Oh, wait, Paul’s only a *rhythm* guitarist…..😂🤣
That's bullshit. If someone is playing something questionable, you bring that to their attention. Otherwise how are you supposed to improve as a band?
I personally think drummers should always keep quiet! 😂
Eric was a seasoned songwriter, singer, played bass, piano and guitar.
Thats what make it a great drummer also.
Like old jazz drummers were often tap dancers, played piano and composed, were showmen, actors in art of comedy, were ochestrals.
Back then it was much than bang on a drum kit rythmically only and not give a fuck about anything.
Also Eric played in a lot of Funk and stuff bands.
He knows the space balanced between musician in a song.
Often guitar , lead guitar players, don't think as whole.
If it doesn't flow good, or its walking on a vocal part etc...
Its better to step back, change , simplify and put the other thing later in a song, or in another track that calls for that.
Everybody seemed to hate this guy. Why the hell did they even hire him? Animalize has the worst solos of any KISS album.
I don't think everyone hated him. I just don't think he fit with KISS. I remember buying Animalize and looking at the pic of the band on the back cover and saying to a friend, "Mark doesn't look right. He doesn't fit in." I guess it wasn't just in looks, but also with his personality
Mark horrible for Kiss! Live his solos were garbage!
Well when you play in KISS im sure you are bored if you are a good musician. They are horrible
Hmm, I think you are watching the wrong video channel then. Here we celebrate Eric Carr and his time with KISS
Folks…that isn’t Eric talking…it’s Paul….geez.
it's Eric fkn Carr
This is Eric. Look on UA-cam and you will find the unedited version of this interview
Kiss kinda sucked they were big in Japan but im 6'6 I'm big in Japan lol 🤣
And small in intellect !