It might still be toward the top of m+, but I don't know if it will be as dominant. But I totally agree, it's hard to be upset when mistweaver gets the axe when paladin is in the state its in lol!
That’s really not why people are mad, people don’t care that their relative power is getting adjusted. It’s the tone deaf direction blizzard is taking, healing is not fun, so instead of buffing or fixing the specs that aren’t on the same level of where the other healers are they’re bringing down the better ones. It’s lazy, stupid and frankly not fixing anything.
The issue with hpal is it's just bad to play. Spenders feel useless, you have no way to blast up health bars like other healers and their mana is abysmal. Monk will still be 2-3rd best in raid and still incredible in M+ so I'm not worried about monk all that much. Disc in raid was great and now will be terrible. Pres evoker is going to be FOTM and absolutely busted in raids and M+. Hpriest got a string of buffs and now is 1st or 2nd best healer in all content.
MW nerf will be negligible once gear flows in. Remember theres no stamina buff like most seasons and the trikets are going to be nuts so all us healers will be able to top health up ridiculously well. I think disc in dungeons will be bigger than we think
if you constantly buff the underperformers you get something called power creep. it's the reason why OW 2 just added 50 hp to just about every character.
6:44 we say the same thing basically: The reason people are upset is because the top % design, it's the main reason healers regardless of power level are struggling more or less so when we healers see nerfs when we are already struggling instead of a better solution being implemented regardless if the nerfs are justified or not of course we are gonna complain because in the end, we are again now the getting the hit of the punching bag we are but even harder. If Blizz doesn't address this in some way, we remain to this level of the worst thing you can do to a class that has the most responsibility in the game, which is, to make them struggle even more. I wonder when they will start realist that not nerfing their design is the actual issue regardless if people would complain and by how much, because of course some times that can be justified.
Would you consider to evaluate raid healing for Mythic raid *and* Heroic raid? Like you mentioned the damage profiles are vastly different and most people don’t raid Mythic
Mistweaver nerf was inevitable lol; we've gotten away with being the best healer in every aspect of the game (raid/mythic/pvp) for long enough... I enjoyed my time in the sun
If ancient teachings/dps healing isn't affected, fw will still be really good.. with i guess a much more "perfect" rotation/use of cd's needed to account for the 13% nerf. I hope it's just the direct healing sources that get affected.
To add more to my previous comment, making adjustments just by looking throughput-based data is literally on of the worst approaches to change something, almost anything that is so multifaceted, which is what it seems like from the perspective of the % reduction in healing changes and thus the complaints. It's a fast food type of solution which shares the same side effects, it's just bad for your health and in the context of healers, their healing experience, i'd rather see the ones who struggle buffed AND in order to solve the top % design without having to restructure its scaling values, they should redesign the CC rotations and/or add small and/or short power bonuses to them so people have actually serious incentives to use them even for defensives instead of having hindering components to them (the hindrance is the incorrect or overlapping/wasting use of them anyway already). Do this for all classes and in an amplified way for healers so we have more agency over this since we are the most affected class when that happens. There was once a great video about video games and player behavior and i remember this specific thing sticking out and being stuck to mind since then as i was watching it, which is the more or less boils down to, you should almost always adjust according to the behavior you want to see in a positive way rather than a negative way. I am not saying anything revolutionary or illogical here, Blizzard already has this approach with bonus on resting exp for example, this isn't something impossible to do. Now i am not saying that this will save WoW in that regard and that people will magically change and become better players overall, but it's a decent step in giving them a helping hand, it's a video game after all, it's ok to struggle but for the right reasons but because the hunter in the group doesn't even know they have x type of CC spells in their arsenal...random example...totally random....totally not seeing this in 25s and then not watching a target of spell-casting mob kill player because of that, totally not an everyday thing... /s
Yea but here's the thing that gets me everytime with healer balancing. Mistweaver has raw output with none of the other desirables, sac, bubble, painsup, lust, brez. Classes with one or more of those shouldn't also be balanced with equal healing output. Homogeneity in this way is terrible
Oh no.... We are doing exactly what we are supposed to do, and we are complex and complicated, and we don't bring a lot of what others do because we bring throughput.... So what do we do..... NERF THEM! P.s. You don't think that attonment and ancient teaching healing aren't included in the nealing nerfs just because they go through a little more math before the green numbers show up? Naw man those are included as well. It's a minor tag line saying the output of this damage to healing conversion ratio is included as healing... Why do you think it's recorded as such in logs. They know how to make such changes and aren't bumbling bafoons, all the time, yes if they can nerf us they will and did. Also why is healer diversity a bad thing. They are so two-faced about it. They want all healers to do the same out of healing but not all the same defensives, externals, or utility but those green numbers need to be the same even if say holy paladin and shaman have utility and DR out the wazoo. But yeah let's make them do the same healing as the "Throughput" healers that shtick is to bring lots of big green numbers and nothing else must be tuned to their brethren that bring more to the table, oh yeah and the same amount of healing.
It's definitely easier than it has been in the past, but it does have a lot of synergies and interactions new players can struggle to learn all at once
WOW players are sort of stupid ... being a healer is such a disgrace, you dont find healers, no one wants to be a healer, its hard, its boring, its unpleasant .... on top of that instead of wanting to get better and buffed and get a bit of power creep just to have some fun and be able to heal properly, NO, players come here to say the nerfs are FINE ... "oh we had this for so much time, its about time to nerf bla bla bla" ... you guys are weirdos.
Maybe I am naive, but I believe that whenever someone is happy about nerfs, it's because they hope that THEIR favorite class/spec will get some time in the sun for a change. WIth that said. I wish they would seperate raid from M+ when tuning, and I wish they would aim for, especially something like healers, bringing them on par outside of utility, and not this thing that they do. where 3 classes absolutely dominate, and then leave 1-3 classes/specs like almost unplayable. They do the same to DPS, the Tanks is the only role they got somewhat balanced out.
@@sky_rokit Oh yeah that is why you see a lot of healers around and a lot of people wlling to play healers because they are super easy to play and rewarding oh yeah so true. You might be living in a parallel world, not in the normal 10-20 M+ keys where its a nightmare to heal and where the burst healing and "over healing" as you mention is most necesssary. Of course for top players and top groups it does not matter but for the general people that are most of us, having a nerf on healers just sounds dumb and discouraging. But yeah lets talk about the 0.01% of the healers that are doing fine lol.
@@TheGoldenAngel82 But why not bring all classes up instead of nerfing them? This is a video game you are supposed to have fun, over heal, destroy all mobs, etc. So you feel you are doing fine, you are happy with your class and they go and nerf it and others get happy because the other one got screwed? Isn't it toxic as f#? HAHA he got nerfed now I have a chance. What a weird way of thinking. What about others that are not performing well get buffs and we all have a bunch of fun? Power creep? Isn't it fun mainly for healers? What is the problem of those people that dont see fun killing a bunch of stuff, doing big pulls, big heals etc? How can this be "too much" in a VIDEO GAME????
If they don’t change anything else monks will still have it a lot easier than hpal and should be roughly on the same level as the remaining healer specs. If you like the firstweaving playstyle you will do very well in M+. Your maintenance healing will still be more than enough and Sheiluns gift will still top the entire party.
Balanced would be good. They need to stop screwing with crap all the time. Get us all close to even and let people play what they want. Enough of the social engineering.
![San'layn Hero Talent Analysis - Blood Death Knight [10.2.5]](/img/n.gif)
Player base: “Hpal getting a buff?”
Blizzard:
Dude for real!! It's like they'll do everything BUT buff them lol!
the Mistweaver "nerf" isnt anything to worry about. Hpal ist still crap. Doesnt change at all. Monk will still carry your M+ Group.
It might still be toward the top of m+, but I don't know if it will be as dominant. But I totally agree, it's hard to be upset when mistweaver gets the axe when paladin is in the state its in lol!
People also forget MW have Been buffed pretty much throughout the entire season, so i Think it pretty much stays the same.
That’s really not why people are mad, people don’t care that their relative power is getting adjusted. It’s the tone deaf direction blizzard is taking, healing is not fun, so instead of buffing or fixing the specs that aren’t on the same level of where the other healers are they’re bringing down the better ones. It’s lazy, stupid and frankly not fixing anything.
The issue with hpal is it's just bad to play. Spenders feel useless, you have no way to blast up health bars like other healers and their mana is abysmal. Monk will still be 2-3rd best in raid and still incredible in M+ so I'm not worried about monk all that much. Disc in raid was great and now will be terrible. Pres evoker is going to be FOTM and absolutely busted in raids and M+. Hpriest got a string of buffs and now is 1st or 2nd best healer in all content.
MW nerf will be negligible once gear flows in. Remember theres no stamina buff like most seasons and the trikets are going to be nuts so all us healers will be able to top health up ridiculously well.
I think disc in dungeons will be bigger than we think
if you constantly buff the underperformers you get something called power creep. it's the reason why OW 2 just added 50 hp to just about every character.
I say that exact thing at some point in this video, and it has ruined another game I play called magic where they just keep making new cards stronger!
6:44 we say the same thing basically:
The reason people are upset is because the top % design, it's the main reason healers regardless of power level are struggling more or less so when we healers see nerfs when we are already struggling instead of a better solution being implemented regardless if the nerfs are justified or not of course we are gonna complain because in the end, we are again now the getting the hit of the punching bag we are but even harder.
If Blizz doesn't address this in some way, we remain to this level of the worst thing you can do to a class that has the most responsibility in the game, which is, to make them struggle even more.
I wonder when they will start realist that not nerfing their design is the actual issue regardless if people would complain and by how much, because of course some times that can be justified.
Would you consider to evaluate raid healing for Mythic raid *and* Heroic raid? Like you mentioned the damage profiles are vastly different and most people don’t raid Mythic
Mistweaver nerf was inevitable lol; we've gotten away with being the best healer in every aspect of the game (raid/mythic/pvp) for long enough... I enjoyed my time in the sun
Very well said! Im not mad about it, but it was fun while it lasted!
If ancient teachings/dps healing isn't affected, fw will still be really good.. with i guess a much more "perfect" rotation/use of cd's needed to account for the 13% nerf. I hope it's just the direct healing sources that get affected.
It sais "all healing" so?
@@Zerg777 dps healing isnt affected
Ancient teachings is calculated based off how much damage you do, so they would have to tune it individually
Holy paladin is number 1 healer if you see the game as a whole with mitigations, Would be weird if they werent in the bottom with pure hps
I main Mistweaver but I play all the healers and want them all to be good. I'm sad about holy pally not being good.
To add more to my previous comment, making adjustments just by looking throughput-based data is literally on of the worst approaches to change something, almost anything that is so multifaceted, which is what it seems like from the perspective of the % reduction in healing changes and thus the complaints.
It's a fast food type of solution which shares the same side effects, it's just bad for your health and in the context of healers, their healing experience, i'd rather see the ones who struggle buffed AND in order to solve the top % design without having to restructure its scaling values, they should redesign the CC rotations and/or add small and/or short power bonuses to them so people have actually serious incentives to use them even for defensives instead of having hindering components to them (the hindrance is the incorrect or overlapping/wasting use of them anyway already). Do this for all classes and in an amplified way for healers so we have more agency over this since we are the most affected class when that happens.
There was once a great video about video games and player behavior and i remember this specific thing sticking out and being stuck to mind since then as i was watching it, which is the more or less boils down to, you should almost always adjust according to the behavior you want to see in a positive way rather than a negative way.
I am not saying anything revolutionary or illogical here, Blizzard already has this approach with bonus on resting exp for example, this isn't something impossible to do. Now i am not saying that this will save WoW in that regard and that people will magically change and become better players overall, but it's a decent step in giving them a helping hand, it's a video game after all, it's ok to struggle but for the right reasons but because the hunter in the group doesn't even know they have x type of CC spells in their arsenal...random example...totally random....totally not seeing this in 25s and then not watching a target of spell-casting mob kill player because of that, totally not an everyday thing... /s
I got 3k with caster mistwaver every season and will continue to do so untill the foreseeable future
It feels incredible especially while dps are tuned so high!
Yea but here's the thing that gets me everytime with healer balancing. Mistweaver has raw output with none of the other desirables, sac, bubble, painsup, lust, brez. Classes with one or more of those shouldn't also be balanced with equal healing output. Homogeneity in this way is terrible
Rdruid>every other healer :)
It honestly is a blast...
Oh no.... We are doing exactly what we are supposed to do, and we are complex and complicated, and we don't bring a lot of what others do because we bring throughput.... So what do we do..... NERF THEM!
P.s. You don't think that attonment and ancient teaching healing aren't included in the nealing nerfs just because they go through a little more math before the green numbers show up? Naw man those are included as well. It's a minor tag line saying the output of this damage to healing conversion ratio is included as healing... Why do you think it's recorded as such in logs. They know how to make such changes and aren't bumbling bafoons, all the time, yes if they can nerf us they will and did.
Also why is healer diversity a bad thing. They are so two-faced about it. They want all healers to do the same out of healing but not all the same defensives, externals, or utility but those green numbers need to be the same even if say holy paladin and shaman have utility and DR out the wazoo. But yeah let's make them do the same healing as the "Throughput" healers that shtick is to bring lots of big green numbers and nothing else must be tuned to their brethren that bring more to the table, oh yeah and the same amount of healing.
it consistently feels like they are trying to force disc priest into mythic+ only healers. I hate it.
Wouldn’t say MW is hard.
It's definitely easier than it has been in the past, but it does have a lot of synergies and interactions new players can struggle to learn all at once
WOW players are sort of stupid ... being a healer is such a disgrace, you dont find healers, no one wants to be a healer, its hard, its boring, its unpleasant .... on top of that instead of wanting to get better and buffed and get a bit of power creep just to have some fun and be able to heal properly, NO, players come here to say the nerfs are FINE ... "oh we had this for so much time, its about time to nerf bla bla bla" ... you guys are weirdos.
The nerfs are fine. Good healers were already overhealing most content anyways, including mythic raid.
Explains why I get instant invites and praised for playing 😂
Maybe I am naive, but I believe that whenever someone is happy about nerfs, it's because they hope that THEIR favorite class/spec will get some time in the sun for a change. WIth that said. I wish they would seperate raid from M+ when tuning, and I wish they would aim for, especially something like healers, bringing them on par outside of utility, and not this thing that they do. where 3 classes absolutely dominate, and then leave 1-3 classes/specs like almost unplayable. They do the same to DPS, the Tanks is the only role they got somewhat balanced out.
@@sky_rokit Oh yeah that is why you see a lot of healers around and a lot of people wlling to play healers because they are super easy to play and rewarding oh yeah so true. You might be living in a parallel world, not in the normal 10-20 M+ keys where its a nightmare to heal and where the burst healing and "over healing" as you mention is most necesssary. Of course for top players and top groups it does not matter but for the general people that are most of us, having a nerf on healers just sounds dumb and discouraging. But yeah lets talk about the 0.01% of the healers that are doing fine lol.
@@TheGoldenAngel82 But why not bring all classes up instead of nerfing them? This is a video game you are supposed to have fun, over heal, destroy all mobs, etc. So you feel you are doing fine, you are happy with your class and they go and nerf it and others get happy because the other one got screwed? Isn't it toxic as f#? HAHA he got nerfed now I have a chance. What a weird way of thinking. What about others that are not performing well get buffs and we all have a bunch of fun? Power creep? Isn't it fun mainly for healers? What is the problem of those people that dont see fun killing a bunch of stuff, doing big pulls, big heals etc? How can this be "too much" in a VIDEO GAME????
The set bonus will make up for it and if you heal for 100k you lose 5k and 13k for monk healing..Its not bad at all!!
For pushing keys or lvl 20 ( or 10 in next patch ) its definitely alot.
If they don’t change anything else monks will still have it a lot easier than hpal and should be roughly on the same level as the remaining healer specs. If you like the firstweaving playstyle you will do very well in M+. Your maintenance healing will still be more than enough and Sheiluns gift will still top the entire party.
We also get chi harmony on the talent tree in war within so even with this nerf we are gaining overall power down the line
Balanced would be good. They need to stop screwing with crap all the time. Get us all close to even and let people play what they want. Enough of the social engineering.