Father Rejects Chemo on 8 year-old Unwilling to Fight | Chicago Med | MD TV
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2023
- A father with an 8 year-old son with advanced stage on cancer refuses to force him to keep fighting - and that might be actually be curing him.
From Chicago Med Season 2 Episode 13 'Theseus' Ship' - Dr. Latham is talked into going with Dr. Rhodes on a medical trip out of town; an 8-year-old cancer patient wants to give up; a woman with a personality disorder makes a case complicated.
Chicago Med (2015) The doctors and nurses who work at the emergency ward of the Gaffney Chicago Medical Center strive to save the lives of their patients while dealing with personal and interpersonal issues.
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I actually think the dad was really brave to let his son choose to end treatment. That would be difficult for any parent, but he trusted his child.
Thats what kids deserve. Trust.
The father's clearly abusive and the child should be removed from his Karen this case the kid has to undergo chemo to survive even if he doesn't want to that's what parents have to do sometimes forced their kids to do things that they don't want to do
@@jking6736 Its not your decision to make.
Its just a film.
@@SuperArystoteles I know but even if this was real life I would force the father to give his child chemo drugs at the doctor said it was necessary you shouldn't stop a child's treatment just because they're in pain
@@jking6736if your child say their done then their done
Dr. Manning always puts her emotions first. Heartbreaking as it is, it was the kid's decision.
Honestly that’s her whole character’s deal. She makes dumb choices around children meant to anger the audience against her and keep them emotionally invested
It was April who pushed for DCFS to be involved here.
@@MsLovestory01Absolutely! Dr. Manning had nothing to do here. She was actually going to follow with his dad and even tried to DEFEND him at the end. It was mostly April's fault for this.
Actually this is one of Dr. Manning’s finer moments it was actually April that step over the line and made her call DCFS. Had April waited for the MRI this could have all be avoided
@@yucol5661 backfire. a lot of us stopped watching the show because we can't stand her. and her being the main character does not help.
I'd understand the doctor's point of view if it weren't the kids 4th try on chemo. 4 times is enough to be done with
“Meddling do-gooder” is her character description;)
@@catmaxwell6691 Cool
@@catmaxwell6691wrong and right. I think mostly April's fault for calling CDSF or whatever it is.
@@thegamememerIt is called DCSF
@@thegamememer no, only right:)
it’s just the way this character is written, and her choices are made simply to advance the plot.
As a kid with chronic illness, he can absolutely decide his fate. He can understand what death is.
Kids always seem to have a better understanding and grip on death than most adults.
Yeah, I imagine a child who has been through a long slog with cancer may well understand it better than the adults do.
It’s really sad to see kids getting cancer at a young age, and never being able to recover from it. They were just born to die.
unless you have been through these treatments, you have no right to say who or who not gets to stop fighting. not everyone is built for war.
The child was built for war and fought 4 wars, but that's enough. Nobody should have to go through it over and over again.
It happens a lot in real life but its nice to see something similar on tv programs. Doctors cab get tunnel vision sometimes, with the training and admonition to fight to keep someone alive as hard as possible, and loose sight of the fact that, paradoxically, sometimes a patient choosing to go out on their own terms is actually the path of lesser harm. Yes someone might have a pulse at the end of the day but if their quality of life is so torturous that they would rather choose death, essentially demanding that a patient fight for as ling as they can is the greater of the two evils.
I disagree. Everyone is built for war. That's what humans are. We are built for survival. You telling me that if we are lost in the jungle trying to survive, some people would rather kill themselves than fight for survival. Everyone is built for that. It just depends on how long you can last.
@@bugatti599gtr when you are lost in the jungle you don’t have to watch the effect your deterioration has on your family as they are powerless to help watch your children traumatised as they watch you suffer. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to a person sometimes people choose death out of love for those that they love.
Yes...not everyone is built fr war..i agree totally
Wow. The "everyone has there time to live, ive had mine, now i wanna see whats next" line from the kid was astonishing and wise and showed that he really did understand the reality of his tough decision. Not many kids how that kind of insite
I think that the best line
You realize that it was a line from a script that was written by an adult, right?
@danieldevito6380 the kid delivered it well.
@@danieldevito6380You think real kids with cancer don’t understand that when they too give up fighting.
I feel so bad for the Dad in this. The kid too, but like. His kid's mom died, now his kid is dying, and the way the staff went about forcing this... just awful.
After seeing people with PTSD after one round of chemo as kids when they say no it’s probably time to stop.
Exactly and really the dads decision honestly
Legally it is
@@juliestiff9372 w
Lost my leg to bone cancer as a child, these kids do know their own strength and what they want to keep trying or not trying. I had to choose to have my leg amputated at 12years old, brain developed or not. Only person that can choose to fight is the one with skin in the game.
But its also completely unrealistic that the er physicians are treating this themselves. Its above their paygrade.
When I was 12 my dog Cocoa died. I asked God to take me instead. Some kids shouldn't be making decisions.
@@jadedbrad Cocoa deserved better 😭
@@jadedbrad I asked that a year ago when trouble (my cat) had cancer. It's just humanity, not immaturity; I was 29.
@@jadedbradit’s their body tho
As a Lymphoma stage 4 survivor, I know there comes a time when the disease takes so much out of the patient by pain and exhaustion they decide to have palliative care only.
Thank god your here today bless ur soul hope u have a great future up ahead
Amen. By the way, I am very very happy that you’re better. I’m a registered nurse and it amazes me that tenacity cancer survivors have much respect, And God bless.
The worst part is the father probably didn’t give in to his kids wishes right away. I’m sure he had to take time to think critically about this and discuss with his son the implications of that choice, not to mention having to deal emotionally with the idea of watching your son pass away. Who knows how long it took him to get to this place and now he’s in handcuffs.
The dad did admit he forced the kid to go through with the last treatment then agreed to let the kid decide if they would keep it going
^^^ he said that the boy begged him all through the last round to stop but he wouldn’t
Many years ago my family knew a little girl who dealt with a heart condition her whole life. They tried everything. By age 10 or 11, she had had enough-- told her parents no more surgeries or treatments of any kind. Her parents RESPECTED her wishes because they knew she was mentally tapped out and ready to go to heaven. She died shortly after, and obviously it was tragic, but there was a huge peace because she wasn't suffering anymore.
Poor girl. Especially because her parents tricked her into thinking heaven is real. Pretty sure she would've chosen to live otherwise.
Heaven is real. There was once an atheist that was dying. He declared that if there is a God snd heaven.. that snakes would crawl from his grave. Post burial. His plot became a huge snake den@MetalForTheWin921
Kids are smarter than people think!!! The poor kid has suffered enough!!! He deserves to make his own decisions!!!!
dr. manning and her "i am a mom, clearly i know everything and am better than every other parent out there" logic is so exhausting.
The problem with being a doctor and allowing your emotions to rule you is you think that you're thinking of others, but you're not. For a child to go through that over and over again, it would have been torture, and cruelty at it's finest; to endure all that pain for nothing. She's not thinking of how that bow must have begged his father to stop the trials and how it is killing his father inside to see his only family dying in front of him.
It is really awful when other people decide what you should do with your life and your own body.
Five minutes and 10 seconds, that little boy understand life and death better than that grown woman who is a medical doctor like he said everyone has his time everyone without exception.
Can we talk about the actor who plays the dad’s voice? DAYUM.
Whoever he is, this man would be a marvelous voice artist. Audiobook companies, you NEED his deep, magnificent, cultured tones!
Agreed, he has such a pleasant and heartfelt voice!
His voice felt deep and velvety, like a comfy old leather chair you could just sink yourself into and fall asleep in.
The title of this video is so disrespectful. This has nothing to do with the kid being “unwilling to fight”. We need to stop with that false battle narrative around cancer. Sometimes knowing when to stop curative treatment and start palliative care is the bravest and wisest thing a patient and their doctor can do. Happy to see so many people in the comments realise this.
I knew someone in high school who was battling cancer through his whole childhood. He was always missing school and in pain. I dont know how many time he went into remission, but it never lasted long. It sucked. He'd grow out his hair, only to have it fall out again...
Omg
Imagine how much the father must love him to let him go so he won’t be in pain
Putting children thru chemo over and over is the abuse. 😢
Especially when they don’t want it
And especially when it's so many tries that haven't worked
The bravest thing a parent can do is to know when you’re no longer helping your child but hurting them. This father could see his son was done being in pain every day that’s not living.
When a Father says his child _“does understand,”_ that means his child _“does understand.”_
he has every right to decide what he wants no matter how old he is. he knows what he can handle better than anyone else, and his father is incredible for supporting his decision no matter how painful it was
We would all do well to remember that there’s a difference between prolonging life and postponing death…
April and Manning both would have been fired before the end of their first episode irl
I get the hate for manning on this, but can we talk about how April forced mannings hand with DCFS? If I found out that they had that discussion as the father I’d have sued them into oblivion. Especially saying I don’t care about what the MRI says. Aprils always a jackass.
Never liked April. She gives bad vibes even without talking
The doc needs to realize her boundaries and that people can understand and make their own decisions!! Just waiting for an episode when she goes through a huge trauma and see what she chooses!
It seems like this that upset me so much as a parent because doctors nurses and people in the hospital always assume the worst they assume because this young man decisions were respected his father was weak opposed to understanding that maybe his father had just gotten strong enough to listen to what his son wanted and his weakest moments how about that
Hospice would be the best thing for this kid in a real-world situation.
That nurse should have minded her business! It wasn’t her call
he is a child
If the kid wants to give up, let him. It's been 4 tries. It's time to give up.
The kid made a clear conscious decision. Just because he’s 8 doesn’t mean he can’t decide it’s time for palliative care.
Like I’m sure he’s old enough to tell his dad hey I’m feeling blah blah with my body
The way she acted like this kid on chemo of all things didn’t even know how death works infuriated me 😭
That boy was very well spoken and wise for his age. He understood his situation completely and just wanted to be free from the pain and suffering. He wanted to spend what time he had not suffering so he could enjoy it.
I admire him.
Dr. Manning always lets her emotions get the better of her
In real life she would be a doctor with the best bedside manner, but she would be constantly crossing boundaries that shouldn't be crossed and potentially causing lawsuits
I dunno if I'd be as relieved as that dad was. Still could possibly lose his son, as it's not confirmed he's actually getting better, now on top of a huge medical bill, he has court fees, and will probably never see his son again. If I were him, the hospital would be in for a lawsuit for millions.
Before everyone says it I know it's a TV show.
Dr.Manning constantly acts against her patient's request when she disagrees with their rational. Rule one is "do no harm" in medicine and she fails, lots of malpractice lawsuits in real life and probable suspensions would result. Dont act against your patient's requests or their power of attorney.
She literally sided with the father and son here, did you even watch the clip? She and they were absolutely right.
@HulklingsBoyfriend Initially she did not accept it and her character throughout episodes has this similar preventable tendency.
This is so sad for the boy and the father. He loves his son so much!
There was a video I saw recently that was a terminally ill person addressing a comment about them going into hospice/end of life care that was asking them to not give up. They said that entering hospice was not "giving up" it was the end of the line. Their body didn't have anything left to fight with and they had run out of treatment options. Dying is not giving up, its giving in when there's no way left forward.
If they were so concerned with his ability to make this choice why didn't they get a psychiatrist refferal. And April saying "I don't care" should've been a clear indication that she was letting her emotions and desires get in the way.
that kid is an amazing actor! i hope he goes places in life because his performance has me bawling like a little baby.
April acting like she knows more than the doctor..
Every patient has their limits. The pain. The suffering. The countless hospitalizations. More than a dozen or more meds is literally suffocating. And some people reach a point where they would rather die peacefully then keep fighting an exhausting painful battle.
Have they never heard of pediatric hospice care?
Have you ever thought that they’re taking the kid to the ER for extra drama and move the plot along?
In order to enter hospice care, you have to have two doctors independently sign off that you have 6 months or fewer to live. You can't just put yourself in hospice.
The child understands pain and suffering.
The whole mantra or whatever if being a doctor is you advocate for the patient. You find balance between what they want and what they need. The kid has been through this 4 times, and his body had absolutely degraded each and every time, it’s not about surviving anymore, it’s about quality of life, and that kid deserves to be pain free the rest of the time he has with his dad.
Forcing someone to continue treatment when it really won’t make a difference is terrible. He knows his outcome.
An 8 year old knows that it isn't working and that he doesn't want to go through it anymore. There are things worse than death.
Until you've been through a medical crisis of your own, doctors should just step back and accept when it's time to check out
Good to see dad respecting his son wishes hope Gabe gets better
2:28 yea as someone who had to learn about the concept of death at two, a typical 8 year old can most definitely understand the permanency of the concept of death.
hes a smart kid its sad to see him giving up
chemo and cancer is no joke you wouldn’t understand why people wanna give up so bad until you in their shoes
First of all he's not giving up. He's smart enough to realise when the tools just aren't working. Shame his doctors were too self-absorbed to see it.
I had a friend give up at 15. It wasnt working and hed had enough and chose no more treatment. I know this kid is 8 but after that many times i think he understands enough
Why is it that the last video where Manning dealt with a child cancer patient, she was concerned with letting her emotions get in the way?
You'd think she learned something from that.
As some who watched countless family members and friends die of cancer. I understand completely that this kid doesn't want anymore treatment. He doesn't want to go through anymore pain and sickness. Chemo is nothing but a poison anyway. He and his dad deserve to decide what treatments he gets and what treatments he does want. This nurse is the worst kind of person and shouldn't be in medicine period. This kid deserves to die with what dignity he has left. He is right everyone has their chance to live and everyone has their chance to die. Kids understand a lot of things that most adults don't. And see things that most adults miss. Even the Bible says; "For everything there is a season. A time to live and a time to die." For goodness sake let this kid leave life on his terms and with his dignity.
I am amazed one of Manning’s patients hasn’t sued her yet… Have they? I haven’t watched the show in a bit
They were out of line smh
Manning listened to the kid for once, it was that other doctor that was way out of line.
Nurse, not MD
As long as the patient’s and his/her guardian fully understands the consequences of their actions if they opt out of treatment, it’s still their choice.
The fathers voice is super deep
imo, someone old enough to know they're dying knows more than someone who isn't
U know the sad part is that child never got to grow up and yes ik it's a show but I feels so real
It feels real because it is. It happens to kids and adults every day
This is so sad, yet amazing!!
Y'all, I actually watched this episode and it infuriated me so much. Sorry to give spoilers but at the end, April apologized to Dr. Manning about it and blamed her pregnancy emotions on it. Nah, you owe the father an apology. I know this is just a show but jeez
worse part is that in the US health care is not free. you cannot force it on people like this, especially when they have been trying for so long
False I didn’t pay for chemotherapy or radiotherapy when i battling cancer, I didn’t have to pay for my teeth extraction pre chemotherapy and radiotherapy treatments, I didn’t pay for my hospitalization, blood work, p.e.t scans, biopsies, nor the loaner hospital bed for me to sleep in when I was battling cancer as I couldn’t get up the stairs, I didn’t pay for my loaner wheelchair, nearly all my meds were covered by Medicaid unless it was protonix which helps with heartburn among other stuff and even then it it was partially covered and I only needed to put out a few bucks to cover the remaining cost which wasn’t much my point is your comment is far from the truth as I have Medicaid which is oh yeah free healthcare that’s covered by the state I live in so nice try!
😭wow! What a performance. By the dad and the boy. And the Dr too when she yelled commanding they listen.
The thing about kids 'not understanding' is because many parents dont try to explain it in a way kids can understand it or even bother to explain it because they are to supposedly too young.
Especially if a child has cancer, you shouldnt really try to hide what he has and might go through, i mean the child is in pain and wants it to stop, and i doubt any parents wouldnt try to explain to them they would die if they stopped.
it's ridiculous that they would go ahead and arrest him for medical neglect when (a) it was the child's choice to refuse treatment, dad wasn't neglecting him at all and (b) not taking the chemo actually made him BETTER. medical neglect is more like my MIL's first oncologist who postponed her PET scans until she lost consciousness in her bathroom and had to have a bone marrow transplant.
Ya why did he get arrested to begin with? I'm so confused. Because the kid said he didn't want the treatment anymore?
This 8 year old is as done with life as most gen-z
The nurse saying "I don't care" and pushing the doctor like that.. it really scared me as a patient. The fact she just wants to follow protocol without really understanding the kid and the dad is terrible. I get it's a tough call and she just wants to save her patient, but please respect the parents and the devastating situation.
In the hospital, the patient child has no right to make his decision. It’s ALWAYS up to his parents. You have the power to make your own medical decisions at the age of 18.
The father did make decision when he listened to his kid and kids feelings. Just so happens kid made right decision
yep
Sure. And the parent did make it. The hospital didn’t like the decision he made and that it respected his child’s wishes.
@@katrose5179 cause hospital won't make money
This is unethical of the medical staff. It is perfectly reasonable to allow a terminally ill patient to choose comfort over the torture of chemo. Plenty of older people with cancer make that choice. It's not child abuse unless the dad was deliberately trying to kill the child, which he obviously wasn't. The child should be put on hospice care and his life should be lived out to the fullest while he still can.
i never ever teared up at a video before but when that kid said "i want to see whats next" actually made me tear up
Ohhhh this episode makes me mad.... good job to the dad! I've lived this. This sucks.
The father is played by my brother, his name is Cameron Knight. I love his work on this episode so much!!
Haiya I'm back to House. These kid doctors are turning the medical show into a drama.
That father is a dad and that dad is a real man! We need more fathers dads and men like this
Wow this was so awful, he was a great Father & and he saved his son from his impending doom just to be arrested..
This is so sad. 😭😭😭💔💔💔
April always got her way, no matter how selfish or how many times she had to blackmail someone… and it never went wrong enough for her to reconsider. That kid knew EXACTLY what was happening, but April couldnt get past herself to see it.
I am now crying it’s so sad and happy
April was out of line, I never liked her.
Me either
So? She wasn’t wrong
@@alexandramoyer8785 She was wrong
@@alexandramoyer8785She was wrong. The father taking him off chemo allowed the tumor to shrink. April jumped the gun and called child protective services before the scans were back.
@@Whitneypyant Luckily, the social worker apologised and April was rightfully put in her place. She was told by Goodwin to never pull a stunt like that again, otherwise she’d fire her.
In no world would that father EVER get arrested for that. Absolute bs.
Isn’t withholding medical care illegal tho? Since he withheld the medicine
Awesome episode, with an ironic ending!!! Stopping chemo saved the childs life!!!
I Am So Sorry For Your Loss 🕊 ♥️ 🤍 🙏 ❤️ Rest In Peace 🕊 🤍 🙏 ❤️ ♥️
This was a case of severe overreach which happens often in hospitals.
That is a wise child
Dcfs has too much power
I almost cried
The Dad has a charming voice
I did my PhD at a children’s hospital in the UK. There was a weekly lecture series and one talk was on consent and assent. In the UK, consent is 16. So the speaker challenged the black and white of consent. A 15 year old, one day shy of their 16th birthday could have their wishes overruled by a parent/guardian, but a day later suddenly they’re adult enough to consent? Then comes more grey area; what if the 16 year old had learning or other mental difficulties that made them more immature? Would the age of consent still apply? The other side is children going through medical procedures. They can assent to proceed or not proceed. A good parent would agree with the assent, if they knew the child understood the meaning of their decision. And this can be as small a procedure as a blood test to chemotherapy. Any good doctor or nurse would take the child’s opinion into account, even children as young as 8. There are parents, and in this case doctors, who disregard children’s wishes because they think they know best and to save the child despite history of treatment not working and the child suffering more because of it.
I was a patient at GOSH for over ten years. My doctors would deliver the same news to me they would to my mom ever since I was old enough to speak, even if they had to dumb it down. The conversation always went like, "This is what's wrong, this is what we'd like to do because. If we do this, there's a good chance the results would be X but they can also be Y. How do you feel about that? Do you wanna talk about it? Do you have any questions?" Sometimes they'd have someone sit with me for hours to make sure I got it and even though my mother had to sign and it was ultimately her decision they made damn sure I had a chance to voice my opinion on the matter. And I was in ophthalmology, not even life threatening. I freakin' loved my team. Heroes to the last.
@@Mariamunro95 I did my PhD at Alder Hey children’s hospital in Liverpool. Same manner. There’s something about paediatricians that respect that a child is still a human with a voice and opinions and want to know what’s going on
They didn't know anything about that childs treatments and what he went thru because treatment doesn't always effect everyone the same. And they kind of made it seem like he didn't even try at all just because they didn't see it. Calling CPS and having him arrested was too much. Considering chemo doesn't always work you could just be poisoning yourself until the end. Not always but the person who is receiving it should have atleast some say in it.
I cant imagine a doctor speaking to a parent like she did
Cure/remission vs misery buying time with treatment staving off the inevitable.
The way she was speaking to that child, as if he was stupid and didn’t understand death? My 3 year old niece understands death. That made me sad for him.
As a parent, this is so very difficult. We dont want to see our children in pain, but we also trust them to know how much they can handle. What a tough choice, horrible outcome, but one of relief for the young soul that suffered so much.
Tbh i dont actually think its Mannings fault this time April literally forced her hand in this
why did this have to be so sadddd