Renault Alpine GTA Turbo - Why Great Cars Don't Always Sell
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2024
- Faster, Lighter and Cheaper that its competitors from Porsche..and better to drive, the Alpine GTA still sold in tiny numbers. Today I find out why...
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Probably one of the most underrated UA-cam channels ever IMO.
Can't agree more.
why is that
I had one from new, living in France in the 80s, chosen over a Porsche 911. It was very comfortable and quiet over long distances, very quick, especially for the time and good fun to drive. Some care was needed in the rain. The stereo was memorably good. All in all, a great car. (No rattles at all).
I bought one new in 1988. Sold it 3 years later with 77k on the clock. Loved lt. Red black leather, graphic equaliser and volume control on the steering wheel.
Didn't like driving it much then !!! lol
I love the dashboard not because it's such a well thought out layout as you'd find in a BMW of that period but because it gives of that nostalgic 80s vibe that we had somehow arrived in the future.
We should have stopped time in the 80s 🥰
@@meersau5690 What a great thought. In a way that’s what I did having left the UK in 1987 and only returning for a handful of visits since, the last time being over 20 years ago. No doubt I’d be shocked to see how things are these days.
Your pronunciation of "Grand Tourisme Alpine" wasn't terrible at all. In fact, it was almost perfect.
'Wimbledon' was a bit trickier!
😂😂😂@@samurai-capybara
@@samurai-capybara 😉
Agreed 👍
English pronunciation:
"Gr-Rand Tour-Ris-Me Al-Pine" 😛
I think you're right Jack, selling it as a Renault was a big marketing mistake, when you're going up against a Porsche.
they could have sold it as Facel Alpine
I remember Performance Car did a head-to-head between the Renault GTA V6 Turbo and the Renault 5 GT Turbo and listed the various predictable comparisons between the 2 cars. The R5 GT Turbo did a very good job of keeping up, but the author was completely bowled over by the GTA V6 Turbo. He said something on the lines of "it deserves to be a world class seller".....I then cut out the pictures and put them all on my bedroom wall! 👍
Glorious and way more interesting than a 911.
For those doubting the looks, have a look at the very last of these - the A610.
Wonderful.....
Probably one of the most underrated cars ever IMO.
A few years ago, whilst crossing the Jura, I was lucky enough to witness well over 100 French Alpine Club members racing around the hairpins on route to Geneva. One had to be there to appreciate, but it was quite a spectacle particularly on such a challenging road.
Not to take the spot light off the Renault, but that group of Ferraris you passed at 7:02 was NUTS!!
The PRV is basically a V8 with 2 cylinders cut off. That's also why the block angle is not classic V6 and the ignition sequence is a weird odd-fire. Not every mechanic made the genuine effort to understand it.
Fun fact: Volvo re-developed and refined the PRV for the 960 and 780 in which case it was renamed B280F. Power was 20hp more then the old B28.
It i remember correctly the GTA Turbo also uses this improved PRV block design.
I actually came very close to buying one. But altho these cars have a fibreglass body they do have a backbone chassis ( a bit like Lotus? ) and these chassis can and do rust!
So, to prospective buyers, beware and have an inspection done by an Alpine specialist. Well worth it!
Fun fact that hardly anybody knows: when Alfa Romeo needed an engine for their 155Ti DTM race car they realised that the Busso wasn't ideal for the task but the PRV V6 WAS! Not really surprising because the block was a fully alu-alloy casting and the block angle was wide so there was a LOT of space for a generous intake plenum and runners and the angle from the heads into header exhaust manifolds was also good. In the AR 155ti application the PRV was extremely succesful in the hands of Nicola Larini.
Another succesful PRV application was in the MVS Venturi. Another french sportscar, more upmarket (competition for the V8 Ferrari's) and i think some faster models used twin turbo's. They also raced them at LeMans.
Oh my, this IS a surprise!!
Thanks so much Jack, for featuring one of my all time favourites!
Greetings from the Netherlands
Epic car! imagined being wealthy businessman in 1985 driving around this GTA in la Defence in Paris playing Jean Michel Jarre Zoo Look album🎉
I'd prefer Oxygene, but I get your point. Either way it would be fantastic!
Look at that interior! Look at that switch gear! Ugh, gorgeous.
Love it!
Dat french quirkyness, eh
Fab
Back in the late eighties, I was working for Renault UK. I drove quite a few of these cars. Once you got used to them, they were a great, surprisingly fast, agile car. I have carried 2 adults in the rear seats, albeit not for many miles. They are still surprisingly inexpensive. Non Turbo versions, which are still a good car, are very good value. There is an excellent specialist, Alpine Renault Restoration, run by Paul Sage. His late father Jean Sage, who I met a few times, was the Renault Sporting Director.
200BHP was a lot of power in the 1980s. Family cars were more like 90BHP.
And also cars of today weigh 40-50% more than their '80s counterparts so the difference in performance isn't even close to as big as youngsters today like to think.
That might be the best sounding V6 I've ever heard 🥴
Apart from Busso engined Alfa Romeo
you should hear My Na BOA with a full stainless system at full chat
Evor 400/410 would blow it to bits sound wise.. honda nsx at full chat ? U have been living under a rock pal 😂😂😂😂
Volkswagen VR6?
I'd say quite good sounds due to the turbo, the NA version doesn't sound great. Certainly not on the level of 12V Busso or Dino V6
I have never heard a PRV engine sound like it does in this video. Kinda cool. Actually sounds a bit like an inline 5 at some moments in the video...
Mine sounded exactly the same. The 2.5 V6 is in a Odd-fire configuration. So different to the 2.7 and 2.8 versions.
@@dj_paultuk7052that explains why is has a bit of a VR6 type sound to it whereas the 2.7 sounded more like a regular V6
This has a even fire crank the normal had the Boxer like crank
Yes, great sounding engine. With the turbo just in the background. Wonderful.
@@matthpotte It does sound a lot like a VR6!
Absolutely love this, looks fantastic, rarity.
I’ve never driven one but as an ex-Porsche technician, I know the Porsche range inside out, I can say that the Carrera 3.2 quality of build or driving dynamics are not all they’re cracked up to be…
I’ve had two GTA’s and I loved both of them. The first was an ‘86 sold new here in New Zealand. The second was a 1990 which was badged as an Alpine (after the Talbot/Chrysler trade mark expired). The steering rack is straight out of a Fuego, so interesting you felt it steered well. Also the brakes are the same size front and rear and straight off an R30. One of the most disconcerting aspects is the bizarre ‘chine walk’ they do at higher motorway speed - a distinct movement from side to side that you have to power through. Another issue is the rear tyres that are unique to the car - still available from Michelin Heritage. Would I have another today? - ABSOLUTELY!
Snap!
Outstanding! Good of you to review one of my favorite cars, Perhaps, my absolute favorite French classic of the era. As a teenager in the USA, I wouldn't have typically known about Alpine-Renault 310 series, but because of a family friend who was a well-heeled connoisseur and collector I happened to get to know a pair of them quite well. They were a very early A310, with the 6 headlights under glass, and a later series model (directly preceding the one driven here) in white. This gentleman had imported them via gray market, at a non-trivial expense. The newer of the two had the flared wheel arches, deep dish Gotti modular wheels, and an integrated spoiler on the rear deck. Both were spirited rides and the older one of the pair was the first truly "exotic" car I'd ever been in, having been profoundly changed by a ride its owner took me on at the age of 9, shortly after it arrived in the states. It even had an on-board cellular phone, which I (of course) used to call my Mom, at home, excitedly reporting on the whole experience. This was probably 1979 or '80. Your review reminded me of these fond memories. As an aside, regarding your comment about Hoovie, I suspect that given his age and locale, he wouldn't have known how much of a parts bin special the GTA's interior was and, compared to its American "peers", its aesthetic probably seemed retro-futuristic and posh in spite of that. This is merely speculation but seems a reasonable assumption. Anyway, love the channel, do keep up the good work 27! Cheers!
When I want to relax I watch this channel. It has this sweet space around it.
Nobody notice the FERRARI’s???? 2 275GTB’s and what looks like a 330GTC??? Holy shit!! Jack!! Pull over!
Theyve probably broken down 😂
That was the camera team of Jack :-)
7:03
I was looking for this comment.
Is it all the various UA-cam spanners waiting to rip along the piece of road we all know Harry Metcalfe uses for his road tests? 😎
Microsoft Windows is the most UNpopular operating system in the world - but it is the most widely installed... 🤓
Well said.
Why?? Gamers use Windows a lot.. no?
@@Jason.cbr1000rr because it is the most installed system - but that still does not make it popular...
It's the most widely installed desktop operating system.
If you take into account non-desktop systems (phones, routers, IOT devices etc), then Linux is the most widely used, by some margin.
Which makes it the most popular...do not mistake popular with hated.
I think this car - while not really admired when new - will go down as one of the most uniquely and interestingly designed cars ever, and may even end up being timeless inside and out, in the same way Mies Van Der Rohe architecture is timeless.
A very elegant, sophisticated sports car it probably didn't sell well in the UK because it was too noble and too French in appearance for the masses. It really deserved to sell a lot better in the UK. The general public forgets that Renault competes in Formula 1 and has a rich pedigree heritage in hot hatches that very few manufacturers can match!
those who want also buy..... it is very popular in Europe... it is a collector's car... for people who have 5 or more cars, then this will be the right one
I love all the Alpines. The new one should have been made rear engined too.
They are !
This lump was longitudinal, the A110 NG is transverse but still central rear 😅
Fabulous car very underrated, Renault like Ford have a great racing history and many other cars had a Renault engine, like Lotus, De Lorean.
I’d take one just to be different.
Always wanted my dad to get one of these. To 8 year old me, the Renault Alpine GTA was a spaceship. I had a poster of a metallic blue turbo on my bedroom wall for years.
Remember years ago in a magazine they had a limited edition le mans version sort of metallic purple colour absolutely beautiful.
My late uncle had a 310, this one here and then the wonderful looking LeMans with 250 PS. I always loved these cars and they were terribly underrated
I remember back in the day that performance car magazine would always rate the A610 (facelift one of these) in their top performance cars. They loved it
Not sure that the 911 is more conventionally pretty, it's just more familiar... Good review, Jack, on another oddball car. Keep them coming
Pretty sure the market has determined that the 911 is as ‘conventionally pretty’ as they come. This thing…yikes. A complete hodge podge of other cars.
@@f.kieranfinney457 911's appeal to some. Not to me. Not the older ones certainly.
This is one of my personal favorite cars! I wish more people remembered it.
Always drooled over Alpine cars. My favourite was the A610 turbo.
Great video Jack.
Aren’t the A610 and the Renault GTA the same car?
Not quite - the A610 came after and was an evolution of the GTA.
The majority of the car was new, with a more powerful 3.0 engine and a wider track. @@neilturner6749
@@neilturner6749 Not exactly. Of Course, the A610 is inspired by the GTA, but it's another car with increased performance
The A610 was very much evolved from the GTA. Same basic design and layout. New panels all round, except the doors, I think. Improved weight distribution, larger engine (3.0 instead of 2.5). Pop up headlights, and many other changes. It sold even less well! And I have one.
@@andrewberridge4630 Congratulations! My dream is to own one soon... And I have worked on it 😉
Fantastic review of this glorious and much underrated sports car! Dare to be different anyone? At the present value and prices, I belive there's never been a better time to own one. Congratulations - and thanks - to Greg!
Also, in my opinion, a car - a giant slayer - was released that made such an impact it questioned spending so much more for anything else! The Ford Sierra Cosworth. It really was a game changer.
Thanks again Jack. An excellent review for such a special car.
P.S. So cool you drove past two Ferrari 275GTBs and a 250GT Convertible etc,. saw them yet didn't bat an eyelid!!
Wow! I have never heard a PRV V6 sound that good! Really cool car!
Used to own a 610 turbo back in ‘93. Lovely blue colour. I think there were only 12 registered in the UK that year. It was my company car and my fellow director had one in the same colour. We put them together and I reckon that was a one off. When I filled up with petrol nobody knew what it was. I remember that spares were always a problem. Loved it though.
I liked the GTAs but think the 610s were a step up plus the pop-up headlights ofcourse !
@@michaelbarton4787 They were undoubtedly a step up as you say and personally I really liked the revised styling. They were also badged as an Alpine not a Renault which I think was classier.
Speedo's having a day off so we know it's French.
I noticed that.. it's probably on strike
But at least it is running on a day that ends in "Y" so you know it isn't British.
@@williamegler8771 Fair.
I've got the same problem in my Japanese car, but you could argue that Nissan kind of became a bit of Renault later.
@@anthonydeas2173 It's so weird to me that the French get flak for wanting better conditions for themselves and opposing government tyranny.
We could learn a lot from them.
I've never seen one of these before, but I kept being reminded of the Starion.
Great, honest review! Now you can review my A610, when it's roadworthy again. I'm hoping that will be later this year. I'll be in touch!
Yes. Yes yes. I remember it advertised in mt dad's car magazines I read as a kid. Loved the looks... That dash I thought was pure future in the 80's
I remember, as a kid, being told off for sitting in one of these at the Earls Court Motor show shortly after they were launched. Loved it, and always been a bit sad we don't see more of them around.
I owned a GTA turbo for 4 or 5 years - loved the design and drive but the build quality is relatively poor and it turned out to be very unreliable with various electrical and mechanical issues. Very quick on boost but the nose would get noticeably and disconcertingly light at motorway speeds. I think the interior was designed by Gandini (?) and it does have a nasty, disappointing plastic feel to it .
Compared to similar cars of this era 911, 968 etc., which I've also owned, it's a charismatic alternative, but the Porsches would always get you home unlike the Alpine....
Another great video !
Awesome stuff as always Jack buddy 👍
One of my favorite car of all time! Thanks for this superior review! These old Alpines are sublime, I adore them much better than the overrated Porsches......
Please test a Volvo 480 Turbo as well! :))
TY Jack 🙏🙏! Remember seeing my first one when they were new. I knew most cars, but thought 'what was that', it looked like a space ship! Still only seen a few decades since.
I love that you get a hold of this kind of thing. Haven't seen one of these for years! In most of the drive-by shots, when you talk about stability, I can see the poise and control it has. I've watched scores and scores of you vids, and you can visually perceive that this was very composed on the bends!
Nice one.....keep em coming
Great review… quick and to the point…without leaving out important info😊
What a 😯 at 7:03 .... Jack switched to mute mode... and was wondering, will I stop and start discussing with those petrolhead ?
Nice exhaust setup, sounds like a right beast!
mR 27,youve outdone yourself and before long the rest of the online community will catch on and then subs will skyrocket ,such a beautiful car filmed in a gorgeous setting 10/10
Beautiful car from every angle. We had a lot of Renaults in Argentina (built there) but never one of these. Thanks I enjoy watching.
That sounds really sweet 😁
Excellent choice Jack!
Wow !! Learned a lot from this video. Very interesting car. Thank you.
Oh I love these! great episode Jack
I own a GTA Turbo and most have a category status due to lack of some parts especially body parts i.e. rear lights etc
the sound around 11 minutes in this video is just f.....g great.
Excellent vid. Thank you very much.
My old boss had one of these as a weekend car. I had a go on a few occasions as he used to let us drive his cars. Fantastic thing.
Great review...Saw this at a Renault Garage in the West end back in the 80's and it was the most beautiful car that I as a teenager had seen in a metallic white, sort of sparkled...Would love to get one now...
Yep my father bought my mother a 911 turbo in 1980’S I was only a 6 or 7 at the time she had it for 2 weeks and hated it and at the dealer was a beautiful red Renault alpine turbo and she loved it
wow! I missed this one in the 80's. There is a NA GTA for sale in Australia for $18k plus. Thanks again Jack. Another great video of a car that is very interesting.
I think Noble got the most of the PRV boat anchor.
I loved these cars when they were current. They looked unique.
The first version, launched in 1971, had a spectacular six headlight front end that I quite like. Wish they had kept it.
I'm excited to see this video, given I just saw my very first Renault Alpine on Saturday.
Hello Jack,
Great to see a French super car on your channel. Certainly a car ahead of it's time! How about a video on the Venturi Atlantique? Very rare in the uk yet, very understated. Great channel by the way.
Casual Ferrari classics parking at 7:03 😲😲😲
Future test cars? That would be nice. 3 similar models to choose from.
Looks like Guy from JayEmm videos
I suspect it has something to do with Jack, he's giving us a hint of what may be to come.
Thanks for the history lesson. Always loved the look of these cars.
My mate bought one in the early 2000's. I had the pleasure of driving it on a number of occasions as I had an Esprit so we would just swap cars every now and then and the handling on GTA was just as good as the Esprit.
I still remember the quirky wiper sweep and the little LCD display on the dashboard that didn't work so you had to guess how much fuel you had left....😂.... He did sort that in the end to be fair....😉
I like the PRV roar.
A bit like the old Dodge V6, with the unusual 90° angle and the odd firing order.
But who wonders, both were born as a V8 and basically had 2 cylinders cut out.
I Remember reading about these in Autocar when they came out, loved the look of them then, and still do! This one sounds great too😎, I hope to see it on the track one day🙂
I've always really liked this car. Thanks for the review.
Love it! Sounds much better than my father- in-law's Renault 9 AT.... Same speedo problem, must be a 1985 thing.
Great test drive Jack, always thought an underrated car. I was a RAC patrol in the 80's, working in a posh part of London and was sent out to a Renault Alpine on the morning after the great October storm of 1987. A tree had come down and completely squashed it. I felt for the owner as nothing could be done for days as the storm had ruined any chance of anything being done quickly.
Silly solution but the turbo lag could possibly be slightly mitigated by having a smaller turbo? You might lose some power at the top end as result of downsizing but the acceleration and throttle response will be there.
Not that it makes much sense to downsize anyway as this car is built for the track.
I love that spooling noise though! This car has won my heart!
Always loved these. Here's an extra obscure fact: the sleazy businesses man Ken Masters in the 1980s TV series Howard's Way drove one. This is so of it's time, but somehow still achingly cool. Love your vids Jack 😎
I loved these when they came out but we never got them in Canada. Such a cool looking car and so French and quirky.. what's not to like? Great review, Jack.
I remember CAR Magazine pitching this up against the Esprit Turbo and the 911 Turbo. Of course, the 911 ran away with it but some years later its natural evolution - the A610 - was in Performance Car's CotY and won it outright. Still didn't sell well. Some cars are just too weird to be successful...
My extra firm High School French teacher would approve your effort. Not sure why or even when I saw my 1st but I have been an Alpine fan for decades. I have 2 RC cars with Alpine A110 bodies and will continue to enjoy those.
Another really enjoyable review Jack. I'd love to see a Renault 25 Turbo reviewed if one became available.... Same engine as the GTA, wrapped in a Executive Hatchback .... Renault nailed dashboard design for me in the 80's...
I remember standing at a bus stop aged 11-12 when these were brand new
Someone local had one and I loved it
Most people were driving around in square boxes like the mk4 cortina
Thank you for this video! Fun facts about this car: 1. It was driven by the main antagonist in El Dorado! 2. They had an awesome Desert Raid buggy version!
There is one of these laying on a garage forecourt in Dumfries South West Scotland. It’s deteriorating fast and needs somebody to rescue it.
Love your reviews
One of the problems faced by the GTA was the Ford Capri V6 2.8i/280, which offered similar performance to the non-turbo GTA and more practicality for a much lower price. And was great fun to drive and cheap to maintain.
A very cool car for not a ton of money that still is enjoyable to drive. This would get a lot of attention at a car meet. Thanks for sharing!
Great to see this car featured. I owned two back in the day.
I couldn't help but notice the non working speedometer. Very familiar unfortunately and a pain to fix. Also the questionable quality of the interior parts in general is something I agree with. But I love it, it drives really nicely. I have a GTA with a 3.0l NA v6 200hp(from later Renault) swap in it (with an exhaust) at my disposal and it's a real experience. Its the engine it should have had. The original NA 2.8l unit with carburettor isn't the best and its not easy to get it to run just right. This Turbo GTA is already a big improvement.
Towards the end the comparison is made between the GTA and the 911, that's valid since the configuration is very similar, but really the GTA was aimed more at the 944. I haven't driven a 944 so I wouldn't know but I reckon the transaxle layout makes for a more forgiving and easier to ride car. The GTA is not a car you want to ride carelessly and it takes some experience to get the best performance out of it. And probably the 944 has some better quality materials and interior to suit. But it should really be enjoyed on its own. It is a very rare and fun car to own and drive.
That's (as usual) a spot on review. Let it settle and use the mid-range is exactly how to do it. As a continental express they just chomp high speed autobahn miles. I have had two of those. The second was a daily driver for 18 years, it had the full leather and aircon when I bought it with only 5k miles on the clock. I'd have another in a heatbeat (but with two Alpines already I'd be pushing my luck!).
It was and still is one of the best cars I have driven. Buying one now would need much care, although mine was utterly reliable it would be very easy to buy a lot of trouble.
I like the B-pillar camera addition.
A lot of things spoke against this car:
1. the lackluster PRV V6, even with turbo-charging.
2. the placement of the engine, with much of its weight behind the rear wheels, Porsche style (which gave it rather "interesting handling", as Jeremy Clarkson put it).
3. it was seen as a niche car from a car manufacturer that "only did common cars", something many commonly popular car manufacturers ran into when launching more daring designs.
I have always loved these cars and my mk 8 davrian is very similar in engine set up with even the same gearbox.
Definitely a bargain car especially with the non turbo car.
An excellent review as always
"There's enough room for my head" I almost expected to see a bust of his head on the passenger seat.
Haha, (re)discoverd this one last week. I like it a lot :) Greetz from Holland!
Always had a soft spot for these. This is a seriously cool example.
Yay !, amazing cars. I used to have a GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo, slightly tuned to about 220bhp. Given the light weight it was really fast with superb handling.
You forgot the wacky wipers 😊 very cool cars and loved the exhaust ❤️
The wipers came from Panhards 1960 super high tech 2 cyl aluminum coupe 24CT! Was also installed in the older Alpines!