Likely overstatement: Challenge 12 in 1983 was a good, conventional 12. Not special. Australia 2 was breakthrough and very special. I was there. In these present day round the buoys, Challenge 12 is being sailed by some professional sailors (afterguard). Challenge 12, Freedom, Enterprise, Courageous and Defender are essentially equal speed wise. Best crew and best tactician wins. The notion that Challenge 12 was anywhere near her stablemate's speed e.g. "beat her regularly" is fanciful. Sure, they sparred and Challenge 12 on occasion could wind up on top, but your suggestion that Challenge 12 was an unheralded super boat is just silly.
@@dap777754 I was just repeating what John Bertrand said to us at the ryct. On many occasions Australia 2 would not sail to her potential and they couldn't figure out what was happening. Challenge 12 kept them on their toes well and truly and never suggested she was a super yacht. All good.
@@sailorpete136 All good. From what I saw in Newport that summer, Mr. Bertrand was largely outsailed by Dennis on the slower Liberty. So outsailing Bertrand was, as you observe, quite possible.
12m classic-displacement racing yachts are beautiful graceful sailing boats. Choice and passion are the reason they exist. No different to the 1000’s of classic cars that are kept restored and running well. My passion is early 20th century wooden classics. The high tech future yachts will always develop and be front and foremost, and expensive. Whether 21st century enthusiasts will ever maintain classic foiling yachts remains to be seen.
Proper yachts but those on Weatherly may have to be sunk and the crew court-martialed ! The Union flag should only ever be flown from the bow and even then it may possibly be restricted to warships . The stern should fly an ensign red, blue or white with the union flag in the top left corner 😅
Call me a fossil, but I just can’t get excited by the new America’s Cup boats. 😑 I have nothing against speed ( F1 and Hydro are great ), but NOT in sailboats. Bring back the 12’s!
Keith, even in their day they weren’t necessarily the fastest boats certainly not downwind as they are displacement yachts- deep hulls that drive through and displace water rather than skip over the top. Mind you, they are still deceptively quick upwind, and often competitive upwind with more modern non- displacement hulls. But downwind , they’re left for dead. Having said that the 12 metre class is about boats competing that have been built to a set of specifications and which can be fastest within those rules.
@@davidclarke3450 quick-ish upwind but the loads were ridiculous (see Australia 1). There’s a reason west coast ULDBs became the basis for more and more designs as the 12s were still technically in their heyday.
@@keithmoorechannel Of course, quickish upwind (and equally narrow-angled downwind) is what the former AC match racers had over the trash representing the AC today. Once foils and flying and playstations were normalized the AC was doomed. NZL drove the last nail in AC's coffin. Close boat-on-boat strategy and tactical racing with crew and skippers is now dead. Next stop on the AC clownshow is probably licensing SailRocket, fitting a robot, and having one-way drags off the coast of Namibia or something. Meanwhile, in a display of supreme irony, J class boats continue to be built, and among a few other super classes, continue to represent proper, unlimited class competition. NZL basically said we can't compete there so let's lock the AC away in our backwater by permanently classifying AC as nothing more than scows with wings and a few bicycling crew hidden below-decks. The most bizarre class of anti-competition 'sailing' apparatuses yet conceived. Now we wait to see if a NYYC or SDYC bothers to recapture the Cup and restore it.
Absolutely wonderful. Challenge X11 was the trial horse for Australia 2 and regularly beat her including on the morning of the final race in AC83.
Likely overstatement: Challenge 12 in 1983 was a good, conventional 12. Not special. Australia 2 was breakthrough and very special. I was there. In these present day round the buoys, Challenge 12 is being sailed by some professional sailors (afterguard). Challenge 12, Freedom, Enterprise, Courageous and Defender are essentially equal speed wise. Best crew and best tactician wins. The notion that Challenge 12 was anywhere near her stablemate's speed e.g. "beat her regularly" is fanciful. Sure, they sparred and Challenge 12 on occasion could wind up on top, but your suggestion that Challenge 12 was an unheralded super boat is just silly.
@@dap777754 I was just repeating what John Bertrand said to us at the ryct. On many occasions Australia 2 would not sail to her potential and they couldn't figure out what was happening. Challenge 12 kept them on their toes well and truly and never suggested she was a super yacht. All good.
@@sailorpete136 All good. From what I saw in Newport that summer, Mr. Bertrand was largely outsailed by Dennis on the slower Liberty. So outsailing Bertrand was, as you observe, quite possible.
The 6,8,10 and 12 meter boats are all great to sail.
My family had a 8 meter boat 'Amita'
Awesome
Cool that they are Still Racing These : and ,Yes gotta get somebody who knows good music for track ;
12m classic-displacement racing yachts are beautiful graceful sailing boats. Choice and passion are the reason they exist. No different to the 1000’s of classic cars that are kept restored and running well. My passion is early 20th century wooden classics. The high tech future yachts will always develop and be front and foremost, and expensive. Whether 21st century enthusiasts will ever maintain classic foiling yachts remains to be seen.
Clown music accompanying lovely classic yachts.
Proper yachts but those on Weatherly may have to be sunk and the crew court-martialed ! The Union flag should only ever be flown from the bow and even then it may possibly be restricted to warships . The stern should fly an ensign red, blue or white with the union flag in the top left corner 😅
When do they get up on foils?
Well, with a winged keel and enough wind... Or have they banned those? And composites?
Hopefully never…
Call me a fossil, but I just can’t get excited by the new America’s Cup boats. 😑 I have nothing against speed ( F1 and Hydro are great ), but NOT in sailboats.
Bring back the 12’s!
Skip to 6:00 if you want to see actually highlights and not a boat parade.
Is is just me, or do these boats now seem like floating bricks compared to modern racing boats? Beautiful, but painfully slow.
The ice boats are in that channel over there.
Keith, even in their day they weren’t necessarily the fastest boats certainly not downwind as they are displacement yachts- deep hulls that drive through and displace water rather than skip over the top. Mind you, they are still deceptively quick upwind, and often competitive upwind with more modern non- displacement hulls. But downwind , they’re left for dead.
Having said that the 12 metre class is about boats competing that have been built to a set of specifications and which can be fastest within those rules.
@@davidclarke3450 quick-ish upwind but the loads were ridiculous (see Australia 1). There’s a reason west coast ULDBs became the basis for more and more designs as the 12s were still technically in their heyday.
Sorry I call it historic elegance.
@@keithmoorechannel Of course, quickish upwind (and equally narrow-angled downwind) is what the former AC match racers had over the trash representing the AC today. Once foils and flying and playstations were normalized the AC was doomed. NZL drove the last nail in AC's coffin.
Close boat-on-boat strategy and tactical racing with crew and skippers is now dead. Next stop on the AC clownshow is probably licensing SailRocket, fitting a robot, and having one-way drags off the coast of Namibia or something.
Meanwhile, in a display of supreme irony, J class boats continue to be built, and among a few other super classes, continue to represent proper, unlimited class competition. NZL basically said we can't compete there so let's lock the AC away in our backwater by permanently classifying AC as nothing more than scows with wings and a few bicycling crew hidden below-decks. The most bizarre class of anti-competition 'sailing' apparatuses yet conceived.
Now we wait to see if a NYYC or SDYC bothers to recapture the Cup and restore it.
Have they all been refitted with engines? What a shame.
I made it to 10:45 and gave up on the editing. What a lousy show.
The music is totally distracting…