You'd think they'd eventually catch the sheer smell of ozone coming off how much evil power old Sheev was radiating all the time; ain't no Old Spice can cover that up
@@doingcigs Samuel L Jackson would actually have been perfect for this premise if it had only been written somewhat better. A big part of the point is having the Jedi look badass and jump around fighting droids to distract you from the fact that they're playing right into Sidious' hands, just as *they* are distracted from that fact by the war. This is a pretty good scene but it would be better if it were less obvious and the Jedi, especially Windu, were more confident in the clones and dismissive of any concerns. Having Samuel L Jackson call someone "stupid-ass" for worrying about clones when there are battle droids and sith to fight would have been perfect.
@The boys upstairs. At least for me, one of the unique parts of Star Wars that isn't really touched upon is how tragic it is mainly because we know what's going to happen. I mean, you know Anakin is going to become Darth Vader no matter how many times you see his heroism in the series. You know the Republic will be destroyed. You know the Jedi will go extinct. Yet you watch them as they move onwards unknowingly to their deaths. Dramatic irony, though not intentional, was worked into the series since the original trilogy came before the prequels. That and making another universe requires dedication of it's own which is too much. The series is fine as it is imo.
Unfortunately the chancelor had already "solved" the Fives problem as far as everyone knew. According the fabricated medical report he told to the council, it was some parasite in Tup and Fives' drinking water that made them crazy and all clones from now on would be vaccinated against it so the problem was seemingly solved. That being said, I do believe Anakin probably should have confidentially told the Council what Fives had said about the chips shortly before his death anyway as a precautionary measure. The only thing that prevented Anakin from doing so was probably his unwavering faith in palpatine, and according to palapatine, the problem was solved. Rex on the other hand, was the only other person there that actually got to hear what Fives had to say, and he clearly didnt quite share the same level of confidence in palpatine as Anakin as we later learn from the confidential recording Rex made about the Fives incident to document what Fives said about the chips just in case he ended up being right. But unfortunately for Rex, he was no Jedi and couldnt report directly to the Council or at least not without Anakin's assistance especially if he were trying to do so confidentially.
@@unsapient2197 True, basically it wasn't anyone fault in particular because they were all being played bay Palpatine, but even so, Anakin and Rex could do a little bit more by telling the Jedi Council what Fives said.
Dude literally served up Palpatine on a silver platter, and the jedi were all like, "yeah, we'll get to investigating that....in a few years. What's the worst that could happen?"
@@Aizen2468 the Jedi just really doesn’t believe they are that blind. Same happens with Ahsoka in S7. She is so sure that Anakin could not be bad that she doesn’t even bother to tell Yoda when Maul has told her it’s “imminent”. The clone wars (and the Republic’s relative dominance of it) has not only decimated the Jedi Order’s key goals and motives, but made them arrogant as all fuck.
Jedi thought that Dooku was just screwing with them and that no way a Sith Lord could be that close to them without activating their senses. Would it hurt to take a closer look at senators though? Also Palpatine, did you see his office in Ep. 3? Full of red and his guards were also red, he totally looked like a Sith Lord.
@@masterexploder9668 The Chancellor's private guard had been red since creation (in Legends, the red guard was literally suggested by a senator), and with the sith having been extinct for hundreds/thousands of generations (pretty sure lore says it's 1000 years, but Mace says a thousand generations?), the colour red really isn't that sus, especially when the chancellor is seen as a benevolent figure who literally took over like 20 years ago. As for 'taking a closer look at the senators - Yoda (and the rest of the council) makes it clear that they don't want to intervene in the senate too much incase they are seen as power hungry and trying to overthrow them (which of course they do end up looking like that).
Da fuck did you want them to do? Tell the public? They start rioting. Investigate further? They get caught by Palpatine or Dooku and Order 66 happens early
Too much time without the Sith to challenge them gave them arrogance. Kenobi: His abilities have made him- well, arrogant. Yoda: Yes, yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of _themselves_ they are. (I highlighted _themselves_ because they are supposed to be selfless and trust only in the force)
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
0:26 this little reaction from Anakin is actually really important when you think about it. Because the Jedi are hiding a vital piece of information from the head of their government. Wich explains why Anakin believed Palpatine when he told him that the Jedi are trying to overthrow him in Ep3. Of course this wasn't the only reason but it makes Anakin's distrust for the Jedi much more believable.
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
1. Telling Anakin to spy on the Chancellor. 2. Deceiving Anakin about the death of his Master, DESPITE how angry he could become. 3. Expelling Ahsoka from the Jedi Order and giving Anakin another reason to be piss off and expecting he would save their ass at the end. Is there a pattern here?
At that point the Jedi had literally no options. 1. They tell the people and stop the war, the separatists march to coruscant and palpatine wins. 2. They continue and beat the separatists back, are turned on and palpatine still wins.
Do you know what they should have done after this? Inform the Kaminoans that Tyrannus was Dooku all along. Kamino created the Clone Army for the Republic, not for Dooku. The Kaminoans would have quickly realized that they have been played and would then tell the Jedi about the truth of the chips and even about Order 66.
@@erikzeng1032 wiped out: yes, lost: no. palp's main plan was to get anakin to the dark side and also wipe out the jedi. he wouldn't get the first one done.
@@erikzeng1032 also they would have had time to run away, the jedi failed beause they wouldnt let the republic fail even though it was already dead in all but name.
@@erikzeng1032 Imo there would have probably been way more clones (at least 501st and 212th that removed their implants) so when Order 66 came many jedi would still die but some clones might go into hiding with the jedi. Then again maybe palpatine never even gets a chance to executed order 66 if Windu doesn‘t go in guns blazing, which he might not have to if the entire council is there and knows what to do
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
@@InfernosReaper In all fairness, Fett was a bounty hunter, and he provided the template 10 years before AOTC, so he had no allegiance to either the Republic or Separatists. Without the info that Dooku was Tyranus, it could be very easy to ignore Fett’s connections.
@@thechessplayer8962 Perhaps, until you factor in that the *only* reason the clones were discovered at all was Fett using a very uncommon weapon that could be traced to *that* location At that point, it becomes hard to ignore that connection
As Yoda says, they are at a point where they really didn't have any choice. What could they do? Not use the clones? They couldn't raise an army of useful size quick enough to counter the CIS. They were caught in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. Yes, in retrospect the decision doomed them, but they didn't have the benefit of hindsight - and the dark side was clouding their ability to peek into the future.
That’s not the point. The problem is they did nothing and played the game by the enemies rules. Had they revealed the truth about the clones especially in combination with further investigations of the Inhibitor Chip, it would of fucked up Palpatine’s entire plan
@@kingorange7739Lol no. The Clones would've either had the Order after the news broke OR after they are scrapped the Droids would've finished the War they were winning in the first place. It is quite literally a damned if you do damned if you don't. The REAL mistake was not doing ANYTHING with the information they had. They didn't dig deeper and try to work on a "cure" on the down low. They didn't try to figure out WHO gave the Order until much later. And they criticized anyone who questioned their nonsensical decisions.
At that point the Jedi had literally no options. 1. They tell the people and stop the war, the separatists march to coruscant and palpatine wins. 2. They continue and beat the separatists back, are turned on and palpatine still wins.
They could've done a further in depth look of the clones. It's not like the enemy would've liked a tool that could make your entire army turn against you. Like knowing this information shouldve made the Jedi do such a in depth look on the clones, An inhibitor chip that was inserted at a stage of development would've been easy. Hell Fives did it one day, but the jedi couldnt have been bothered.
@@colbyjackson5747 I agree they could have spent a little bit more time looking into it, but Palpy’s minions were already covering that up even before the investigation was completed. We saw it happening during that arc. And Fives just took his chip out. A process I might add that he was told had a potential to kill him due to the chips location in his brain. That’s why Tup died when he removed his.
@@pewpewplasma3793 I’m pretty sure Tup died because the chip malfunctioned and damaged his brain beyond repair. And of course Fives went insane due the Kaminoan scientist injecting him with something. Though I wouldn’t call the Kaminoans in league with Sidious. They were under the assumption they were working with a man named Tyrannus, without knowing it was Count Dooku. The Kaminoans were also told the chips were in case of hunting down rogue Jedi, not knowing the true purpose of order 66. Even in the comics the Kaminoans led a revolt against Palpatine by creating clones that didn’t have the inhibitor chips in their heads, which led to the discontinuation of clones.
Yoda does say it is the wrong decision but the only one he has left, he knew they were going to get fucked he just didn't know exactly how. With Grogu existing and now being known we are almost sure that Yoda did figure it out before most of the Jedi because he saved his son (best theory for Grogu) and then hid him away for protection before going into hiding himself. Honestly, the main mistake is letting Obi-Wan train Anakin when Mace Windu should have been a clear choice, Mace knows to use the dark side but in the right way instead of locking it away as it builds up. Even Yoda would have been better than Obi-Wan who broke all the rules and gave no shits but Yoda was busy with his son that we now know of.
You have to remember, they never suspected Palpatine, so they never suspected evil from within. They likely saw Dooku as simply creating the war for his own gain, not as the architect of an internal command by the Chancellor that would leave the Jedi all dead. They also had too much confidence in their own political power and Force ability, and underestimated the gravity of danger from the long-forgotten Sith, which were very prominent elements in the films as the reason for their downfall. So from that position, it makes perfect sense that Yoda would know it was an evil Sith plot, and have no choice but to proceed with it, believing in providence to prevail.
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
Dooku literally admits to obiwan that darth sidious was in control of the Republic yet both obiwan and the rest of the council choose not to believe him and dismiss it. Their focus just goes to 'win the war' despite the clear warnings given
@@bend7726 i wouldnt say they dismissed it, but they could not really do anything with that information, because the war began and defense of the Republic took up their attention, and they thought they were looking for an identifiable figure like Maul or Dooku. This is evident when in Episode 3 they begin to suspect Palpatine as being a corrupt human leader, but it is only when Anakin discovers the truth that he announces “he is the Sith we’ve been looking for.” But moreso, their naivete and pride blinded them from seeing the obvious right before them. Which is really the point Lucas was making in the prequels, that once the Jedi and the Republic through pride and greed had abandoned their original ideals and fully committed to war, then they were already giving the Devil what he needed, they had already let the dark side take hold over their destiny.
The missing piece of the puzzle is what Fives discovers when you really think about it, so it made it all the more critical that both Order 66 and the identity of the sith remained secret because it would’ve been the missing link the Jedi Order needed to discover the truth
The Clone Wars have really helped me understand Anakin's statement: "From my point of view the jedi are evil!." They made so many bad decisions and were generally just being arrogant pricks towards Anakin, whilst Palpatine was his only father figure.
Fate was pushed to that point, unfortunately. The moment Palpatine knew Anakin was destined for greatness, he made sure the Council kicks Anakin to the curb. Palpatine is pathetic but he holds all the cards. For a Sith Lord not naturally born as one, I can see why the Sith despise him for making the Republic collapse, just like that.
I mean it’s not like they had a lot of options here. Say they released his information to the public, who was already negative towards the clone wars at this point, that would only bring complete and utter chaos. And on top of that it wouldn’t have prevented order 66 in any way or the rise of the empire because by that time it was too late regardless what the Jedi order did
If the show allowed the Jedi to act competently (ie, not tie into RotS), they likely would've developed contingencies in case the Clones were ever used against the Republic and the Jedi. Then throw in them discovering (stupidly) the Inhibitor Chips which could very easily turn that army against them, the very least they could do would be develop their own version of an Order 66 situation: "Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord." "Well shit. Alright, send out the Phoenix contingency. Order all Jedi to leave their posts and go into hiding right now until this situation is resolved."
He’s saying that if the show were not bound by the films, the Jedi would have likely had a contingency plan if the clones ever turn on them. The Jedi have lot of things wrong with them but blatant stupidity isn’t one of them.
@@Tracer_Krieg you act as if that would have made a monumental difference. Sure it would have saved a lot more Jedi, but a lot would still probably die. And what exactly would the contingency be? Raid the Chancellors office and attempt to arrest him... or how about telling the Senate... well no because who would understand the motivation of “Hes a Sith”. Plus all the friends he has controlling the courts. I don’t see many other options here. It would look like the Jedi doing exactly what he said they did in the movie. An attempted coup. Order 66 would still be issued, a lot of Jedi would still be caught off guard as most were off fighting a war, and the few that survived would go into hiding. Maybe onto a fallback planet/rallying point, but it would only be a matter of time before the Empire found them. I mean they found Ilum and Bogano in less than 5 years so... it doesn’t seem like much has changed here
That book has so many good takes and extra bits. My favorite part is when Anakin attacks the CIS leaders on Mustafar and I think Nute Gunray says "Sidious promised we would be handsomely rewarded!" And Anakin is like "I'm your reward, am I not handsome enough for you?"
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Without the Jedi leading the Clone Army, the Separatists would've won the war most likely. Direct oversight of the military by the Senate and corrupt, incompetent officers... The real problem is that they let the war distract them from the real, deeper problems of the Republic. They should've investigated Senate corruption, the origin of the Separatist alliance, listened to Dooku and maybe they could've followed the trail back to Palpatine in time.
I mean the entire wording of "Only the Sith deal with absolutes" is meant to show the hypocrisy of the Jedi. The entire notion of "Only the Sith" is already an absolute.
Lucas never spelled out the message about why the Jedi Order fell. I mean, it's his script, so he was telling him through his story. But did he ever spell out that the Jedi Council was hypocritical and the Jedi had become complacent and arrogant?
@@Maddinhpwsbecause you don’t understand something called context. That sentence was used in the context of “if you’re not with me, you’re my enemy”. The Jedi don’t view neutral factions are their enemies as they don’t have an absolute view of loyalty.
It is theorized that Mace Windu was secretly jealous of Anakin. Mace Windu took great pride in his own identity, uniqueness, ability to reason with the dark side, etc. and so here comes alone Anakin who is all of these things but better and far younger. Of course he'd be jealous.
@@diktatoralexander88 if he let goes of his own hubris, Mace could be a Great Mentor to Anakin if he would trained the boy instead of the boy whose trained with the wrong master which is Obi-Wan Kenobi
@@DarthMalgusSith_Lord Your right, Mace would've been a better mentor and trainer for Anakin than Obi-wan (assuming Mace could cast his own hubris aside). Obi-wan was just a big brother figure to Anakin which, though good in a battle bond kind of way, is terrible for a master and student kind of way. And Ashoka was Anakins little sister to him.
That moment when you realize that Palpatine's plan was so good that no matter what the jedi chose to do he would win. One of the best villains in fiction and the best villain in film.
Maybe they thought it would be impossible to put stuff like that into people's heads. Jedi are meditating space warrior-monks not engineers or genetic specialists and they clearly lacked technical expertise.
It’s definitely up there but the Jedi council has a history of making terrible choices. Others have already gone through how they screwed up with Anakin and Ahsoka, but if you look into Aayla Securas history and her masters story it doesn’t get any better. The cliff notes version is they sent her master to infiltrate dookus acolytes by pretending to fall to the dark side, which he actually fell because the Jedi have the emotional experience of a mentally handicapped crocodile, and put Aayla in numerous positions that would bring back past trauma. That trauma being drugged and enslaved by I believe her uncle, so naturally they send the former slave girl to deal with multiple slaving rings throughout her career. I honestly question if having the force makes one allergic to both common sense and basic psychological knowledge…
Playing devil's advocate here: There was no way they would have survived. Even if they discovered the truth, they would get crushed by the Separatists. From the moment the CW began, perhaps even from the time Palpatine was made chancellor, they had already lost. At best, they could have prevented Palpatine's victory by killing him, but the Jedi wouldn't survive regardless.
@@Poempedoempoex They couldn't just flee They are meant to defend the Republic and keep the people safe. Also, if they left, they would lose all support they had left. And finally, Palpatine would have found another way to kill them(Death Star, for instance)
@@juanlaise1059 They should have put 2 and 2 together with this discovery and the discovery that Tup's chip malfunctioned and activated order 66. They should have known they were trapped and given up. And the death star construction took over 20 years. Surely they would have had a plan by then to defeat palpatine.
@@Poempedoempoex "They should have known they were trapped and given up" Really? Give up? That's not what Jedi do. Even if they left, Palpatine woukd have found a way to kill them. Frame them for some crime or have a Sith Assasin impersonate a Jedi and kill important senators. They were fucked beyond measure. If not for Palpatine, the separatists. They were trapped. The only reason Palps waited so long to issue order 66 was because he wanted Anakin and because he wanted to gain enough political support to declare himself emperor(which he would have gotten anyway).
What do you expect the Jedi to do? They literally had no other options but to fight on. If they recalled the Clones, there would be no one to fight and the separatists would win. On top of that, the public would potentially start rioting because the war effort was already unpopular. If this news got out it would lead to utter chaos. The Jedi were clearly suspicious and knew something was up, but they didn't know what specifically. And it's a Catch-22 because if they even hinted that they were suspicious with the clones, Dooku or Sidious might panic and issue Order 66. Obviously the Jedi didn't know about Order 66 specifically, but they knew something was up and were worried Dooku would do something desperate if he knew that the Jedi knew that _he_ had made the Clones. The Jedi had to maintaining an aura of confidence while secretly investigating the matter (which they did by investigating the Chancellor) and trying to end the war as fast as possible. That was literally the only option the Jedi had.
Youre treating this like history and not a fictional world.. perhaps you would have gotten straight As in your history class if you dedicated this much effort to it
Agreed. People are acting like the Republic and Jedi can just stop using Clone Troopers and then hand out flyers to enlist regular people into the war. If the clones are recalled, the public moral will drop as roughly 3 years of war effort will be seen as wasted.
The fact they were worried about the public's APPROVAL is such a subtle way of showing just how far the council had fallen. They weren't Jedi anymore, just politicians with laser swords and psychic powers.
Okay but he’s right. They’re fighting to ensure the survival of the Republic. Without an army, the gala at would be completely under separatist control within months, and Sidious would lead it. The reason why Palpatine created the clone army was so that the people would willingly give him uncontrolled power as he was the chancellor of the Republic. No matter which path the Jedi chose, they were most likely doomed anyways. This was genuinely their only option for even a chance of survival.
Sidious would not be able to lead the CIS directly and can’t build his Empire off of it. Plus the CIS had no interest in taking the entire Galaxy. The Republic gave a peace deal to the CIS, they would be stupid to not take it.
@@Vandicoup I agree. However, Fives is an example of the Jedi's ideological blindness and hypocrisy and only goes to further prove the idea that they were always doomed. Clone Wars is such a good show by the way =D
The Jedi were just too entrenched in politics to back off strategically. Once they used the Clone Army, the Jedi sealed their fate. The only way to have avoided the Republic from becoming the Empire was to have avoided the Clone Wars, possibly finding a way to keep the peace and compromise with the Separatists. Instead, they became war generals.
The decision wasn’t “dumb”. It was a terrible decision, but as they said here they had basically no choice. What the Jedi Council should have done since the start of the clone wars, was separate from the council and refuse to get involved in the war (instead only remaining peacekeepers and helping civilians). They were getting increasingly entwined with corrupt politics and a messy war. That’s why it was so easy for Palpatine to take over. He was literally controlling both sides of the board. They needed the clone army to fight the war, but didn’t account for the fact that they virtually signed their own death warrants by having an army of sleeper agents. The people had already lost faith in the Jedi which made it easy for the public to accept that they were traitors. They were just screwed from the start (but yeah, they increasingly made it worse). What they really should have done was further investigate fives claim and (like Ahsoka and Rex in season 7) prepared to remove the chips from as many clones as possible. Arguably, if they had told the public things wouldn’t have ended as bad as they did. The council was extremely short sighted in their “okay. Guess we can’t do anything about it. Better just end this war fast and hope we can clean up the mess before it bites us in the ass.” But they just weren’t able to see things as clearly as they once could (the darkside (Palpatine) was clouding their vision). I do wonder how bad it would have been if they just came clean with the investigation. Wouldn’t the people start to trust them if they revealed a giant conspiracy? There was still a good amount of people against the war and the push for more clones. Also it’d put a damper in Palpatine’s plans if public ratings for the war went down and no one trusted the clones anymore. I don’t think the droid army would be “impossible” to deal with using normally conscripted soldiers and Jedi (who caught through them like butter most the time). There are a *TON* of examples of the order making dumb decisions in TCW. The series showed just how stubborn and flawed they had become as an order. There was an entire plot point when they thought Yoda (literal oldest and wiset Jedi) was either going insane or being controlled by Sidious because he was hearing Qui Gon and they were just all 200% sure that was impossible since they knew everything about the force (discovery and innovation is for chumps I guess), even though Obi-Wan and Anakin both heard Qui Gon before (with Anakin still hearing Qui Gon even when he wasn’t addressing him because chosen one). They especially have the terrible habit of making bad decisions while acting like they are the most wise and intelligent people in the room (then they still let themselves get trapped in wartime politics like a bunch of push overs). They were also kinda dark at the time. Like they were accelerating training and making younglings Padawans and sending them to the battlefield before they were ready (they were also advancing them to Jedi Knight earlier). They didn’t provide Anakin the guidance or comfort he needed, but continued to use and expect something from him. Forcing Ahsoka out of the order, not letting Anakin follow his force vision, not at least preparing for the clones to turn, and so much more. Them becoming Generals at all is another huge issue. The Order was in massive decline during this era, which is why the force saw to it they be cleansed (and the Sith later; balance was brought by rebooting both).
Actually the war kind of involved them. Because if you recall A couple of key separatist leaders by the names General grievous and count Dooku we’re basically out to destroy the Jedi. Even if the Jedi had chosen not to get involved from the start they still would’ve been pulled into the war because general grievous would’ve killed a Jedi in cold blood forcing the Jedi to investigate it. And count Dooku was a Sith the Jedi’s sworn enemy. So it’s understandable that they would need the Jedi in order to have a fighting chance against such an enemy. So honestly this is a war that the Jedi could not stay out of regardless
@@grizzly_manbanimation8436 Once Palpatine controlled the Senate and Duku controlled the Separatists, they held all the cards. It was only a question of deciding "how" to destroy the Jedi.
I agree completely. The Jedi weren't as "pure" as they were supposed to be neither their actions and words were "pure". That's why people stopped believing in them. They were supposed to be peace keepers, not generals. I would support them going to war but if it was only to defend some innocent planet from the separatists. But no, they became involved in politics and that stopped them from acting like they should. For example, in Alderaan they didn't defend it because the senate didn't allowed it. People say the Jedi didn't have many options later in the war because Sidious and Dooku could rush their plan, but if the Jedi Order kept faithful to their ways and beliefs, then maybe Dooku wouldn't have turned to the dark side, just like Bariss Offee and some other Jedis. And we know how important Dooku was in Sidious plan. Like you said, they almost looked like a military academy, rushing their young padawans to war. They failed in some things they weren't supposed to fail, like Anakin's personal troubles. But i think their main problem was not understanding what was happening to the clones even though Fives told them something was wrong and they underestimated Sidious even though he was preparing something big
@@obi-wankenobi6498 Not just seperatists, everyone. The Jedis as peacekeepers have the duty to remain neutral and keep the peace wherever they can regardless of belief, creed or origins. The main issue with the Jedis is that they had grown very prideful and arrogant in their power. Note how their main Temple is located near where the Senate unite for their debates, they are at the top of structures on Corruscant, where High-borns and the nobility lives. They turned a blind eye to blatant signs of political corruption because it benefited the Republic, by extention, themselves. Another point of note is that the Lightsabers were meant to be a tool as a last resort as even the most devout peacekeeper would know that sometimes there are people who just cannot be reached with words alone and leave you with no other choice, but even then, they would not employ violence unless it is to protect the innocent or their own lives.
To be fair even before yoda was born the jedi order was a bitch of the republic They took a long time to be corrupted, literally eons They fought for the old republic through centuries and even before that So they couldnt just choose to left the republic aside, unfortunately the jedi order was just branch of the republic millitary at the time of the clone wars, even thinking to renounce the republic affairs would be considered madness and a rogue action
Knowing everything that was to come, it made that first episode of season one (the one where he bonds with the clones while on his way to meet the Troydarian King) so much more painful to watch.
I do like this in the novelization with Yoda admitting to himself that he is responsible for the failure of the Jedi. He trained the Jedi to be like the Jedi of his youth, the demilitarized peacekeepers after the Ruusan Reformations and the order stagnated for centuries while the Sith grew stronger and undermined the Republic.
And it only took the deaths of the entire rest of the Order he was responsible for. A lot of people blame Mace for being rude or Obi-Wan for not listening better, but Yoda's the one who picked and led them.
Lmao the Sith got stronger when Palpatine lost to Windu, Yoda, Luke and Anakin. Not one Sith was the strongest force user. They had to resort to plot armor of the Republic having no standing army or reserves to beat the Jedi.
I disagree about this being dumb. In Attack of the Clones, the Kaminoans were expecting a Jedi to arrive at some point to assess the progress, and Sifo-Dyas was their primary contact who placed the order without the authorization of the Jedi Council or the Senate. Jango told Obi-Wan he was recruited to be the template by "a man called Tyranus," who we later learn is Dooku, but the Jedi do not know that until Clone Wars Season 6. The only implication that there could have been something bad about the clone army was that Obi-Wan tracked Jango Fett to Kamino, and Jango was the template. Jango was identified as just a bounty hunter who didn't have real allegiance to anyone except his son and the people paying him. He knew something was wrong when a Jedi showed up because that meant his attempt to kill Padme was realized, so he fled to Geonosis where his employer, Tyranus, was located. Obi-Wan tells Yoda and Mace Windu that there doesn't seem to be a motive with the Kaminoans; he went to Kamino looking for a bounty hunter and learned of a clone army that he was expected to inspect. In Season 6, Lama Su contacted Tyranus about the malfunctioning chip, and it is said that Sifo-Dyas and Tyranus wanted the bio chips to be a secret safeguard against rogue Jedi. Whether that is true or just a manipulation from Tyranus, as we have an outside perspective to believe that Sidious manipulated the whole thing, the episode doesn't show Tyranus' face so we don't know if they knew what the army was really for, or they knew that Tyranus and Dooku were the same person. Lama Su also says "these Jedi are a curious cult" after the conversation ends, implying that he may believe Tyranus to be a Jedi and his replacement contact after Sifo-Dyas died (considering Tyranus provided the template and the bio chip). The clones were loyal to the Jedi the whole time, so there is no implication of a connection except that Dooku was involved with Jango Fett and Sifo-Dyas 10 years before Attack of the Clones. Did the Sith know of the army? Of course, but there was no way to connect the motive to the action.
Add that the clones, apart for some superior officer of the navy, were the only army the Republic had, and were barely able to contain the Separatists' droid armies. To not rely on them at that point meant that Duku would have won and marched on the Jedi temple, or bombed it from the orbit. A medical investigation would have concluded nothing, since it would have been the Kaminoans (controlled by Duku) or the scientists of the Republic (controlled by Palpatine) doing it. It was simply too late.
I always considered it strange that the Jedis did not think that the whole clone thing was an obvious trap. But looking at the situation, it was obviously the only option for them. Although, that doesn't take away from the fact that they were overconfident.
Not just a trap but every clone came from a mandalorian ( a warrior race know to fight and kill jedi's in past) bounty hunter. Plus they never fully investigated the clone program start to finish. Jedi: hey about the clone program... Kamino cloner interrupts master jedi we have 100k clones ready for battle with another million on the way we even got their equipment and ships ready. Jedi: oh ok I just got a call jedi need help I'll b taking wats ready... after battle I think I was told to investigate something. Clone: sir enemy detected at pt ..... Jedi: ah to arms we gotta get those clankers
Not granting anakin the rank of master and expelling Ahsoka from the Jedi order and not telling anakin about obi wans”death” were the poorest decisions they ever made
There's a list of "poor decision" I'll say than the one's you've said: 1. Letting a corrupt senator starve and hurt people . 2. Giving Mace Windu a seat because he followed "protocol". 3. Indirectly Starting the Clone Wars by Giving Dooku reasons to go to the dark side. 4. Giving up on their own apprentices when they've have time to be saved (Luminara giving up on Barris) 5. Giving Barris good reasons to go to the dark side 6. Listening to palpatine to ignore the two people who warned them about the fall of the jedi named Maul and Fives when the horrible but manipulative chancellor says "We need to go back to our war efforts" 7. Not do anything when the nightsisters made the nightbrothers their slaves ..And there's a bunch I can tell
@@rithikdhakshnamoorthy2974dooku's fall to the darkside is tragic because he wanted to do what's right, and it reallt highlights the corruption and how they order was complicit in the whole ordeal. If they had just listened to Dooku a lot of things would have played out differently.
Ahsoka’s expulsion was only a mistake in hindsight tbf, given that Barriss was the actual culprit. Anakin wasn’t ready to be a master, they were pretty open about only accepting onto the council because of Palpatine rather than merit, and he only cared about the rank. Not sharing the plan about Obi-wan was pretty much a necessity given that Anakin was not exactly great about operational security. More than likely, he would blab to Palpatine to about it, exposing Obi-wan early.
That's what happens when you retcon something that treads onto the official plot of Revenge of the Sith. You can't have the characters act even remotely logical, or else the movies never happen.
Yah, the Jedi were that god damn stupid, they easily could just not tell the public about it, it’s not like it would leak easily unless the clones or a Jedi spread the info, and they probably would have no reason to do so, sense its a matter between the Jedi, dooku, and clones, not the people and the Jedi or clones.
@@Tracer_Krieg Facts. I’m all for people loving the Prequels but they really make no sense. TCW fixes some problems but makes up new ones too, like this. The Jedi wilfully played into their enemies hands, as Yoda says they must “play their game”, without even an investigation into the clones, their origin, etc. Hell, just take a dead clone and do an actual post-mortem on them. Discover the chip, do some slicing and computer shit and figure out that there’s a whole list of commands that can brainwash every clone into killing Jedi. *sigh*
Fives literally uncovered the truth. You would think that the council would’ve launched their own investigation properly into what he was trying to tell them after figuring all this stuff out.
What do you expect the Jedi to do? They literally had no other options but to fight on. If they recalled the Clones, there would be no one to fight and the separatists would win. On top of that, the public would potentially start rioting because the war effort was already unpopular. If this news got out it would lead to utter chaos. The Jedi were clearly suspicious and knew something was up, but they didn't know what specifically. And it's a Catch-22 because if they revealed that someone was suspicious with the clones, then Dooku or Sidious might panic and issue Order 66. Obviously the Jedi didn't know about Order 66 specifically, but they knew something was up and were worried Dooku would do something desperate if he knew that the Jedi knew that he had made the Clones. The Jedi had to maintaining an aura of confidence while secretly investigating the matter (which they did by investigating the Chancellor) and trying to end the war as fast as possible. That was literally the only option the Jedi had.
When you know your enemy has aided in the creation of your army, you don't just believe in them. You investigate your army that was made by the enemy to figure out if there are any vulnerabilities.
No, it does matter! I think this shows the start of his turn to the dark side. In Episode 3, he believes that the Jedi aren't telling him things and not granting him the rank of master. This is a seed to further those thoughts he has in Episode 3.
I agree with you, my friend. The Jedi Council did so many horrible decisions besides following a corrupted Jedi Code that brought them to do more harm than good. But this led Anakin to trust Palpatine more and looked up to him as a father figure as well as mentor. Though the Jedi Council’s ignorance and pride was what Palpatine used as an advantage to manipulate Anakin to the Dark Side.
They didn't exactly have any other choice. If they tried to disconnect themselves from the clones then they would lose the war, and palpatine could ditch his whole two sided war plan and just force the galaxy into submission using the seperatist army. The decision makes sense; use the clones to swiftly end the war before palpatine uses the clones himself. As for what to do with the clones after the war is over, that is still a question, but that scenario is much better than just ditching the clones and having no army against a clone and droid army.
Are you serious? No other choice but to cease investigation or begin preparing any sort of countermeasures? Sure, it would have caused problems for them to cease using the clones, but that doesn’t mean they should do absolutely nothing.
if they stopped using the clone army the entire war effort would be in jeopardy, and the faith of the people of the republic in the Jedi Order would crumble the truth is that at this point Palpatine already had trapped the Jedi, both as a institution in the galaxy, and even as a philosophy itself, making them fighting a war@@aaronmueller1560
What kills me about this scene is they literally did not do anything-because they had faith in the support and loyalty of the clones over their enemy. Yoda was basically like they saved our lives many times they have no knowledge of this they would never betray us.
@@StarWarsRebelsStar you realize Sidious was clouding their vision, right? Otherwise, the Jedi would’ve sensed him and stopped his plans long ago. They weren’t able to find him until the final days of the war and by that point it was too late.
SOMETHING would have been good. They later on find out about the biochips, with Five's whole freakout, and you combine that with this knowledge that the Clone Army was provided for them BY the Sith, those two pieces of info ALONE would be enough to investigate and at least protect themselves, or have some sort of Armageddon fallback plan. But instead the Chancellor turned on them, the Clones turned on them, and they were utterly unprepared and caught off guard, like all of these clues had just evaporated from their minds the instant the episode ended. Because they didn't warn the Jedi in the field, most of them got shot in the back without ever suspecting their loyal troops. The problem is, that was totally in-character for the Jedi of the time. They were so paralyzed by their reliance on guidance from the Force that without it, they really just went along with the flow.
On top of being complacent over a millennia of peace, the dark Sith temple to which the Jedi temple was built over was intended to uncorrupt its dark influence ironically became corrupted by said dark influence.
@@KuDastardly I actually really hate that fact. Why and how exactly is there a Sith Temple in Courasant? It was home to the Republic for nearly 20,000 years and it just so happens to have a Sith Temple that is OLDER than the Birth Place of the Sith AKA Korriban/Moraban? No, that makes absolutely no sense
@@xrstevenson “During a period in which the Sith dominated the galaxy, the Sith took control of Coruscant, the capital of the Republic. The Sith constructed an immense black shrine over a dark-side vergence on a mountain at the heart of the planet. The Jedi eventually laid siege to the shrine, burning it to its foundations and defeating the Sith. The Jedi would eventually construct a temple above the former site of the shrine to contain the dark energy emanating from the vergence and metaphorically bury the Sith legacy.” Wookiepedia, Sith War (Old Republic) Pretty wack but the sith once had control of coruscant, also this is og stuff Disney didn’t make this.
Clones have one of the most tragic stories in all science fiction. Imagine being brought to life already enslaved to be a soldier. Destined to most likely die in combat, and if not, only live a half life anyways. To top it off they're chipped to follow an order without the will to stop it.
Not to make light of a clone troopers life, it's pretty awful; but there's a lot of steep competition in for tragic lives in scifi. All tomorrows and I have no mouth snd I must scream come to mind as the S tier of horrific lives
No they didnt they knew from the start they were probably being deceived but they had no other choice but to continue on because like Yoda said releasing the information to the public or even trying to call back all the clones to get chips removed would cause utter chaos and the CIS would just conquer the worlds they abandoned
The council was between a rock and a hard place here. They obviously depend on the clones and can't just stop using them with the Dooku and Grievous still out there. But they also know the Sith created the clones. Not knowing everything about the Sith plot, they could also put themselves with a general order to stop using clones or if suddenly right after the Fives incident, high ranking Jedi started phasing them out. They didn't have a lot of good options. But they absolutely should have continued the investigation into why the Sith created the clones. The real reason the Jedi were wiped out though is still Anakin. Because once Anakin betrayed the council, and he gave Palpatine the political leverage he needed to get away with pulling Order 66.
Unfortunately this is a case of the omniscient viewer seeing everything coming, but not considering the perspective of the characters and setting the characters are in
No but not having a plan to deal with it after a clone literally malfunctioned and killed a Jedi is Palpatine would not have won if the Jedi were more competent
@@user-ct8um1bh3b a clone that the Jedi were told by official Republic investigators, I.e Palpys minions, who simply had a malfunction to his inhibitor chip which was, according to them, meant to make sure the clones didn’t become overly aggressive. And what kind of plan would that entail? How would it deal with the 10 million active troops deployed in the war? Fight them? Well no cause we saw how that turned out. Run away? We saw how that turned out too. And what would they tell the Jedi Order as a whole? “Hey the guys you fight side by side, eat with, sleep with, might end up killing you when you least expect it. We don’t know really know how to fix it just keep an eye out.” Yeah that seems like it would go over real well.
@@KV_1615 just look at Switzerland, they are completely peaceful, but they also are completely ready to an invasion, or just look at nukes, they kept peace between the Major power
@@KV_1615 Peace keeping often involve violence. How do you established peace with Hitler? You can't, you need to fight back. Sometimes being a peacekeeper means being a warrior.
Like a dog, keepers of the peace :3 "Hello human in all black clothing, welcome to my home. Please mind the glass on the floor from the window you just came through. My owner isn't here at the moment, so feel free to help yourself to anything. Mean while I'll jump up and try to lick you and maybe get a few back rubs." *Beware, overly affectionate dog will lick you to death . . . :3*
Out of the almost 900 years that little green toad had been alive, he couldn’t tell the chancellor was the one pulling the strings. It still pisses me off 🤣
Whats "ironic" is that your observation of the Jedi Council is the same many have (including myself) of our present day society when talking about the past!
Okay so let’s say the Jedi turn on the clones, now they’ve got no army, lack of ships and the separatists have taken over the planets that clones occupy. You’ve also got roughly 2 million clone troopers with no purpose. This really wasn’t a stupid decision
Instead of turning on the clones, look at Fives's report, then quietly recall divisions to have the chips removed (and convince the Kaminoans to halt the use of the inhibitor chips once enough clones have been altered (yes, Palps would eventually catch on and execute Order 66, but then you have enough clones loyal to the republic rather than Sidious to at least lessen the blow)
Yeah there was no winning for the jedi either way. Hence even not going to kamino and not getting the clones would have mattered. It was already stated in episode 2 that the republics army was not big enough to deal with the sepetarists army. And if the sepetarists won palpatine would have also won the war. The moment palpatine was voted for chancellor in episode 1 was the moment he won.
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
“Win the war swiftly, we must, before our enemy’s designs come to completion, whatever they may be.” Their deliberate choice to NOT look into what exactly their enemy’s design meant was their dumbest choice. I can agree with the coverup, but they should have tried to find out why Dooku made them an army.
This was not a dumb decision. As Yoda says, they fell into a trap and they were left with two horrible options. This speaks more to Palpatine's guile than anything the Council did. Ultimately they should have probably dedicated their resources to solving this mystery, or connecting the dots between this and what Fives discovered. But the war kept them distracted.
If they want to put their faith in them like human beings, they have to treat them like human beings. But the clones didn't get that treatment, soooooo.
@@mahguvnah7403 no, every Jedi in that council chamber treated them like slaves who didn't have the option to say no. Even anakin, who can argueably be said to be the most sympathetic Jedi towards the clones, even he still treated them like fodder in the end by not standing up to the political forces that were throwing their lives away.
@@derek96720 General Kenobi by FAR was the Only Jedi that Truly cared for the clones... he started the scene of wearing clone armor as a sense of unity on the battlefront. Many jedi come after him in this aspect before Anakin, who only, cared enough I would say..
People complaining that the Jedi did nothing. For all they knew the clones were created to make an army and force conflict therefore pushing more planets into separatist control after seeing the peaceful pacific republic muster a large army of clones bred for conflict. So they chose to trust that the clones would be able to be of some good the same way Luke turned out to be despite having a bad creation origin. Also the Jedi aren’t some mystical force of good. They’re just one side of the coin. They do what they can in what they think is right and hope that it’s the right move
@@gaigeschaal9070 Anakin is nothing but a slave of the Force itself. He served both sides of the Force during his entire life, and suffered because of that. Palpatine and his evil plans was the cause of all those deaths.
Yoda's arrogance, lack of flexibility when it came to Anakin and being too soft when he made a decision like with not training the chosen one because he was too old and then just letting Obi-wan do it with no punishment. In my opinion jedi order had to fall with this leadership but it takes nothing from Palpatine he was the strongest force user (except from some legendary creatures) in galaxy this time probably only Anakin with finisged training could defeat this powerfull sith.
You’d think they’d put some sort of countermeasure against the clones just in case if they found out the enemy was the one that handed over a free army to them just in case
This particular choice is actually kind if smart, but when you've got Obi-Wan telling you the Sith Lord has control the Senate and that Dooku created the Clone Army, maybe you look into those things rather than letting Palpatine's plan play out.
sorry for the response to a 2 year post xD, but the rots novelization points that the reason that the jedi didnt pushed more hard a investigation on palpatine before is that, because of the state of emergency and other measures, *already* were the most powerful person in the galaxy at that point, and didnt realized that the war was a trap for the order
Here’s a thought that clone trooper who tried to save everyone fives oh yea maybe friggen take those damn chips out and find out why palpatine was the clones target to kill something along those friggen lines or better yet get a fresh chip sample and have it analyzed by a black market scientist or bounty hunter and boom order 66 discovered and everyone but the sith saved
Don’t forget, they were about to look into the inhibitor chips, but the Kaminoan Doctor injected something into Fives without anyone looking, causing him to slowly go crazy and sporadic. Without the knowledge that the Kaminoan injected Fives with something, they could only assume this was the result of removing the inhibitor chip. After that, all the Jedi had to go on was that Dooku had a hand in the Clone army’s creation. Now those like Rex and Kix became suspicious of the chips, but since Rex had to focus on the war effort, he couldn’t put more research into the issue. Kix eventually found out what the chips were really for, but Dooku also found out the Kix learned the truth, which led to Kix’s capture were he would frozen until long after the Republic and Empire. I’m not saying that the Jedi didn’t have their flaws and issues, but Sidious was a master strategist that prepared for as many contingencies as possible. And even if the Jedi were to find out about the chips, they wouldn’t exactly eat able to secretly take them out of every clone without Sidious taking notice, which would lead him into activating order 66 sooner. As stupid as it may seem, this was something that had long slipped from the Jedi’s control.
@@jaydonmagan4694 truth be told I don’t care darth sidious is the best Sith Lord ever same with darth Vader my two favorite sith duo team ever I mean the planning the expenses the timing it was all too perfect I loved it but the Jedi could have did something but they chose to wait after the war too bad in the end there arrogance there so called enlightenment and there corrupted wisdom all played a role in the sith grand plan to wipe out the Jedi order leaving only Luke skywalker the last of the Jedi to redeem them all
Yeah. This decision waste such a bad one, it was ignoring Fives. Man... But to be fair, the Jedi Council and Jedi in general were in decline and becoming corrupt and arrogant. Their downfall was inevitable absent serious radical reformation that they simply weren't going to let happen.
Things that never made sense: The republic appeared to have no troops of any kind, even if the Jedi were peace keepers were they really patrolling the outer rim, standing guard at key facilities? The republic had no droids of their own with battle ability Blasters and hyperspace tech but not EMP weapons Never reprogrammed droids captured to fight for them (remember Rebels showed us even young kids were able to do this) a dozen troopers take out a master easily who obviously knew they had turned on him (deer in the headlights look) but a youngling takes out several with deflected bolts at the temple Palpatine didnt program order 66 to focus on the most powerful Jedi first and the troopers to be more tactical about it, thus allowing Yoda to feel what was happening to other Jedi and dispatch the only TWO troopers near him easily.
1) The Republics “military”, if you can even call it that before the Clone Wars, was made up of hundreds of different planetary security forces all funded and provided by the host planets themselves. That’s where all of those fleet Admirals on both sides come from. That’s also where a lot of the Separatist militias come from, same goes for the Republic. Ex: the people of Christophsis. It’s hard to assemble and mobilize an army when they all have differing command structures, styles, etc. 2) All of the major droid manufacturers were apart of the CIS. Kinda hard to kickstart your own droid army when the major producers are the enemy. 3) EMP weapons are hard to manage, kind of difficult to make, and have to be used very carefully or you risk disabling your own forces and key civilian structures. I.e the Zillo Beast arc. Also the standard issue clone weaponry used an ion variation of blaster ammo that helped short circuit droid systems. That’s why their bolts are blue instead of your typical red. 4) Why would you waste time and resources trying to reprogram a few B1s or B2s when they are almost quite literally a dime a dozen? It’s much easier and much more efficient to just scrap them all and clean up later. And they did try this, but only used reprogrammed droids for stealth insertions because the average droid wasn’t exactly tactically smart. Also where in Rebels did they show this? 5) I’ll assume your talking about Ki-Aro Mundi as the guy who looked surprised and chalk that up to standing out in the open in the middle of an active battlefield, and then suddenly having to defend both his back and front. He was dead no matter what he did. And I don’t remember ever seeing younglings ever taking on clones during O66, all I remember is them running away. 6) Why would you ever get that specific in orders? And it’s not like once the order was given the clones were tactically inept. We know for a fact the clones were still very tactically sound and *very* brutal and efficient once the order was given. Yoda and all the Jedi who were able to sense what was happening felt the death of numerous Jedi simultaneously, so basically what it comes down to there is luck. Luck that they weren’t the first ones to be shot in back and killed giving them time to react.
@@pewpewplasma3793 While I agree with everything you said, there was a padawan in ROTS that killed a few 501st clones when Bail Organa went to check out the Jedi Temple, that is until the padawan was gunned down by the other clones.
@@jaydonmagan4694 if that’s the moment he’s referring to the difference would be between situational awareness. The padawan knew for *certain* that the troopers were his enemies, so deflecting a few bolts and killing them wouldn’t be so difficult. The master, in this Ki-Adi Mundi who I assume is the one he is comparing, was confused before promptly being gunned down by his own soldiers. And regardless the padawan in question as you said died shortly after with a single well placed shot
@@pewpewplasma3793 Facts. Plus, the Republic’s official military completely dissolved once the ancient Sith empire was no longer a threat. Why maintain a military when there is no threat to the Republic for nearly a millennium?
@@SolidWorkMan Complacency is the worst kind of "safe guard." That's a big factor in their downfall. If they had maintained at least a decent sized military force, then none of this would've ever happened in the first place. They still had an entire galaxy to patrol and protect and serve. 10,000 Jedi aren't enough. IRL, we only have 1 planet to serve and protect and yet we have 1-2MIL+ soldiers and 1MIL+ cops protecting and serving all across one entire country, and that's just in the USA. So of course the Republic should've maintained a military presence after the war. Their biggest downfall was their complacency and overconfidence, as if another war would never happen. And yet here we are.
I think this scene is genius, is shows how much Palpatine has the Jedi beat, and he doesn't even know it; Palpatine tried to cover up the fact that Dooku created the Clone Army and he believes he succeeded, but in fact he didn't even have to cover it up.
"At the height of their power they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader."
it was also because of a Jedi Master training Luke that the Sith were finally struck down. It was also because of a Jedi Master that Anakin wasn't simply left on Tatooine and allowed to fall to the dark side sooner and without good emotional attachments or jedi training. It was also a Jedi Master that kept Luke safe while he grew up on Tatooine. I know the line sounds cool if you turn your brain off, but if you think about it for even a second, it completely falls apart. Much like the Sequel Trilogy.
Anakin needed a father figure which Qui-Gon would have been, instead he was raised by Kenobi, a brother figure. The duel of the fates was for the fate of Anakin.
“Tell no one, not even chancellor”
Palpatine: 😂😂😂
“A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one” 🤣
Insert old ben meme*
I am the senate!
“Clone Army created by the Sith? That’s crazy! Couldn’t be me tho”
You'd think they'd eventually catch the sheer smell of ozone coming off how much evil power old Sheev was radiating all the time; ain't no Old Spice can cover that up
“I’m aware that the council has made a decision, but given that its a stupid ass decision I’ve elected to ignore it”
This is a very underrated comment
If sammual could have said what ever he wanted I hope he would have said that
Star Wars did not use Sam L Jackson right
@@doingcigs Samuel L Jackson would actually have been perfect for this premise if it had only been written somewhat better. A big part of the point is having the Jedi look badass and jump around fighting droids to distract you from the fact that they're playing right into Sidious' hands, just as *they* are distracted from that fact by the war.
This is a pretty good scene but it would be better if it were less obvious and the Jedi, especially Windu, were more confident in the clones and dismissive of any concerns. Having Samuel L Jackson call someone "stupid-ass" for worrying about clones when there are battle droids and sith to fight would have been perfect.
"Take a seat, Master Skywalker!"
Windu: Are you sure we're taking the right path?
Yoda: No, but this is a prequel to a prequel so we kinda have to do this.
No, but prequel to a prequel this is, so do this we have to.
yeah there were so many frustarting moments like this in tcw but everybody knew it must be so because rest of the story had already been told 😆
@The boys upstairs. At least for me, one of the unique parts of Star Wars that isn't really touched upon is how tragic it is mainly because we know what's going to happen. I mean, you know Anakin is going to become Darth Vader no matter how many times you see his heroism in the series. You know the Republic will be destroyed. You know the Jedi will go extinct. Yet you watch them as they move onwards unknowingly to their deaths. Dramatic irony, though not intentional, was worked into the series since the original trilogy came before the prequels.
That and making another universe requires dedication of it's own which is too much. The series is fine as it is imo.
YODA, HAVE YOU TAKEN YOUR MEDS TODAY!? YOU SHOULD KNOW NOT TO BREAK THE FOURTH WALL!
@@fornax5798endangered. Not extinct.
“Not even the chancellor may know”
The chancellor: *scheming and cackling like a goblin from his chair*
you have 66 likes i cant like
@@ct__-ls3df execute Order 66
why not? for real ( what do you mean l don't get it) please tell me 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺@@ct__-ls3df
J. Jonah Jameson laugh
The Chancellor started this company
They actually had a good reason to keep it a secret. The only mistake they made was not continuing Fives’s investigation.
Unfortunately the chancelor had already "solved" the Fives problem as far as everyone knew. According the fabricated medical report he told to the council, it was some parasite in Tup and Fives' drinking water that made them crazy and all clones from now on would be vaccinated against it so the problem was seemingly solved.
That being said, I do believe Anakin probably should have confidentially told the Council what Fives had said about the chips shortly before his death anyway as a precautionary measure. The only thing that prevented Anakin from doing so was probably his unwavering faith in palpatine, and according to palapatine, the problem was solved.
Rex on the other hand, was the only other person there that actually got to hear what Fives had to say, and he clearly didnt quite share the same level of confidence in palpatine as Anakin as we later learn from the confidential recording Rex made about the Fives incident to document what Fives said about the chips just in case he ended up being right.
But unfortunately for Rex, he was no Jedi and couldnt report directly to the Council or at least not without Anakin's assistance especially if he were trying to do so confidentially.
@@unsapient2197 my man coming in with a test essay
@@unsapient2197 True, basically it wasn't anyone fault in particular because they were all being played bay Palpatine, but even so, Anakin and Rex could do a little bit more by telling the Jedi Council what Fives said.
It really hurts to know how close Fives was to dicover and expose Sidious plan
@@obi-wankenobi6498 I know it makes me sad every time I watch that episode
Dooku: The dark side is controlling the Republic and all the senators are being manipulated by the sith lord himself.
Yoda: Yeah, whatever.
Care, I do not.
Dude literally served up Palpatine on a silver platter, and the jedi were all like, "yeah, we'll get to investigating that....in a few years. What's the worst that could happen?"
@@Aizen2468 the Jedi just really doesn’t believe they are that blind. Same happens with Ahsoka in S7. She is so sure that Anakin could not be bad that she doesn’t even bother to tell Yoda when Maul has told her it’s “imminent”. The clone wars (and the Republic’s relative dominance of it) has not only decimated the Jedi Order’s key goals and motives, but made them arrogant as all fuck.
Jedi thought that Dooku was just screwing with them and that no way a Sith Lord could be that close to them without activating their senses. Would it hurt to take a closer look at senators though? Also Palpatine, did you see his office in Ep. 3? Full of red and his guards were also red, he totally looked like a Sith Lord.
@@masterexploder9668 The Chancellor's private guard had been red since creation (in Legends, the red guard was literally suggested by a senator), and with the sith having been extinct for hundreds/thousands of generations (pretty sure lore says it's 1000 years, but Mace says a thousand generations?), the colour red really isn't that sus, especially when the chancellor is seen as a benevolent figure who literally took over like 20 years ago. As for 'taking a closer look at the senators - Yoda (and the rest of the council) makes it clear that they don't want to intervene in the senate too much incase they are seen as power hungry and trying to overthrow them (which of course they do end up looking like that).
Every Jedi ever: "I know this is a trap. Let's go forward, see what happens"
Da fuck did you want them to do?
Tell the public? They start rioting.
Investigate further? They get caught by Palpatine or Dooku and Order 66 happens early
Obi-Wan: I sense a trap.
Anakin: Next move?
Obi-Wan: Spring the trap . . . :3
Too much time without the Sith to challenge them gave them arrogance.
Kenobi: His abilities have made him- well, arrogant.
Yoda: Yes, yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of _themselves_ they are.
(I highlighted _themselves_ because they are supposed to be selfless and trust only in the force)
They needed the fish guy from episode 5 to tell them it’s a trap
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
0:26 this little reaction from Anakin is actually really important when you think about it. Because the Jedi are hiding a vital piece of information from the head of their government. Wich explains why Anakin believed Palpatine when he told him that the Jedi are trying to overthrow him in Ep3. Of course this wasn't the only reason but it makes Anakin's distrust for the Jedi much more believable.
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
@@kagamiuchihathebeast5862Who the fuck makes fun of Count Dooku? He literally cuts Anakin's arm off
@@aviniciussouza100 no need for cussing act ur age
@@kagamiuchihathebeast5862His age being?
@@aviniciussouza100 Well...well...well...One lost a arm...the other a head...I prefer the arm
1. Telling Anakin to spy on the Chancellor.
2. Deceiving Anakin about the death of his Master, DESPITE how angry he could become.
3. Expelling Ahsoka from the Jedi Order and giving Anakin another reason to be piss off and expecting he would save their ass at the end.
Is there a pattern here?
Yeah constantly pissing off Anakin
4. Giving Anakin as a kid a hard time after he passed the test they gave him (including denying him training)
Basically.
5. Not investing some of that Republic money into getting some Therapists
Not saving his mother before all that or even allowing him to
“Tell no one, not even the chancellor”💀💀💀
fr tho
The chancellor: ok lol
BUT IT WAS I THE CHANCELLOR
@@lordvader6172 is the empire pretty chill anymore, lord Vader?
@@joelmaturin62 Jojo's reference.
"Win the war swiftly, we must"
-Generalfeldmarschall Yoda, 1941, eastern front
Execute Generalplan Ost
Then they lost lmao
@@samp2651 Technically the Republic won.
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p yea technically
@@user-xx6vy9ri8pwhat Republic?
“Believe in them” literally ignores fives discovery of the entire plot... makes sense
Anakin really went: *”yeah, anyway”*
At that point the Jedi had literally no options.
1. They tell the people and stop the war, the separatists march to coruscant and palpatine wins.
2. They continue and beat the separatists back, are turned on and palpatine still wins.
Smh they were so stupid
Do you know what they should have done after this? Inform the Kaminoans that Tyrannus was Dooku all along. Kamino created the Clone Army for the Republic, not for Dooku.
The Kaminoans would have quickly realized that they have been played and would then tell the Jedi about the truth of the chips and even about Order 66.
@@lisboahthe kaminoans were in on it.
How is this a dumb decision the dumb decision was not investigating fives' theory further
sadly even if they investigated they still would have been wiped out.
@@erikzeng1032 wiped out: yes, lost: no. palp's main plan was to get anakin to the dark side and also wipe out the jedi. he wouldn't get the first one done.
@@erikzeng1032 also they would have had time to run away, the jedi failed beause they wouldnt let the republic fail even though it was already dead in all but name.
there would of been a mass check up? Bio, planetary, buildings, and backgrounds for Kamino earlier I guess instead of just Fives
@@erikzeng1032 Imo there would have probably been way more clones (at least 501st and 212th that removed their implants) so when Order 66 came many jedi would still die but some clones might go into hiding with the jedi. Then again maybe palpatine never even gets a chance to executed order 66 if Windu doesn‘t go in guns blazing, which he might not have to if the entire council is there and knows what to do
"Believe in them we must." Huh, maybe you should have believed in Fives, especially now that you know the clone army was created by a Sith lord.
this comment is so underrated
Wait!... if that was you in the phone, and you in the bus... Then who was flickering the lights!?
I dont mind fives but I hate his fans.
A SITH LORD?!
@@weegee_darthno4045 why?
Yoda: "Hey Chancellor, we think our enemy created the Clone Army."
Palpatine: "Oh yes, I did. . . I mean, oh my, who would have ever thought?"
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
I'd have thought it was obvious when the guy used for their template worked for Dooku and credit for their commission was given to a dead guy
Yoda: "What?"
Palpatine: "What?"
@@InfernosReaper In all fairness, Fett was a bounty hunter, and he provided the template 10 years before AOTC, so he had no allegiance to either the Republic or Separatists. Without the info that Dooku was Tyranus, it could be very easy to ignore Fett’s connections.
@@thechessplayer8962 Perhaps, until you factor in that the *only* reason the clones were discovered at all was Fett using a very uncommon weapon that could be traced to *that* location
At that point, it becomes hard to ignore that connection
As Yoda says, they are at a point where they really didn't have any choice. What could they do? Not use the clones? They couldn't raise an army of useful size quick enough to counter the CIS. They were caught in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Yes, in retrospect the decision doomed them, but they didn't have the benefit of hindsight - and the dark side was clouding their ability to peek into the future.
That’s not the point. The problem is they did nothing and played the game by the enemies rules. Had they revealed the truth about the clones especially in combination with further investigations of the Inhibitor Chip, it would of fucked up Palpatine’s entire plan
just let anakin get to work. He solos everyone on that show
Retrieve from the battlefield, entrust the commands to admirals like Yularen and Tarkin and lock all Jedi in the temple preparing for a siege.
They could have made it known and attempted to dig deeper into why and they would have found the exact same thing five’s did and removed the chips
@@kingorange7739Lol no. The Clones would've either had the Order after the news broke OR after they are scrapped the Droids would've finished the War they were winning in the first place.
It is quite literally a damned if you do damned if you don't. The REAL mistake was not doing ANYTHING with the information they had. They didn't dig deeper and try to work on a "cure" on the down low. They didn't try to figure out WHO gave the Order until much later. And they criticized anyone who questioned their nonsensical decisions.
At that point the Jedi had literally no options.
1. They tell the people and stop the war, the separatists march to coruscant and palpatine wins.
2. They continue and beat the separatists back, are turned on and palpatine still wins.
They could've done a further in depth look of the clones. It's not like the enemy would've liked a tool that could make your entire army turn against you. Like knowing this information shouldve made the Jedi do such a in depth look on the clones, An inhibitor chip that was inserted at a stage of development would've been easy. Hell Fives did it one day, but the jedi couldnt have been bothered.
@@colbyjackson5747 If they did order 66 would have been activated sooner combined with the droid army with Dooku and grevious
@@colbyjackson5747 I agree they could have spent a little bit more time looking into it, but Palpy’s minions were already covering that up even before the investigation was completed. We saw it happening during that arc. And Fives just took his chip out. A process I might add that he was told had a potential to kill him due to the chips location in his brain. That’s why Tup died when he removed his.
So its a lose lose situation
@@pewpewplasma3793 I’m pretty sure Tup died because the chip malfunctioned and damaged his brain beyond repair. And of course Fives went insane due the Kaminoan scientist injecting him with something. Though I wouldn’t call the Kaminoans in league with Sidious. They were under the assumption they were working with a man named Tyrannus, without knowing it was Count Dooku. The Kaminoans were also told the chips were in case of hunting down rogue Jedi, not knowing the true purpose of order 66. Even in the comics the Kaminoans led a revolt against Palpatine by creating clones that didn’t have the inhibitor chips in their heads, which led to the discontinuation of clones.
No wonder everyone thinks Yoda was blasting Ketamine throughout the whole Skywalker saga
lmao 🤣😆
Ha, This implies the sequels aren't part of the saga
Yoda does say it is the wrong decision but the only one he has left, he knew they were going to get fucked he just didn't know exactly how. With Grogu existing and now being known we are almost sure that Yoda did figure it out before most of the Jedi because he saved his son (best theory for Grogu) and then hid him away for protection before going into hiding himself. Honestly, the main mistake is letting Obi-Wan train Anakin when Mace Windu should have been a clear choice, Mace knows to use the dark side but in the right way instead of locking it away as it builds up. Even Yoda would have been better than Obi-Wan who broke all the rules and gave no shits but Yoda was busy with his son that we now know of.
@@hj2479 they better not make Grogu Yoda's son. He was supposed to be the wisest jedi and having children is against jedi code
@@juansebastian9259 if i recall correctly u could have kids if ur species were critically endangered
You have to remember, they never suspected Palpatine, so they never suspected evil from within. They likely saw Dooku as simply creating the war for his own gain, not as the architect of an internal command by the Chancellor that would leave the Jedi all dead. They also had too much confidence in their own political power and Force ability, and underestimated the gravity of danger from the long-forgotten Sith, which were very prominent elements in the films as the reason for their downfall.
So from that position, it makes perfect sense that Yoda would know it was an evil Sith plot, and have no choice but to proceed with it, believing in providence to prevail.
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
Dooku literally admits to obiwan that darth sidious was in control of the Republic yet both obiwan and the rest of the council choose not to believe him and dismiss it. Their focus just goes to 'win the war' despite the clear warnings given
@@bend7726 i wouldnt say they dismissed it, but they could not really do anything with that information, because the war began and defense of the Republic took up their attention, and they thought they were looking for an identifiable figure like Maul or Dooku. This is evident when in Episode 3 they begin to suspect Palpatine as being a corrupt human leader, but it is only when Anakin discovers the truth that he announces “he is the Sith we’ve been looking for.” But moreso, their naivete and pride blinded them from seeing the obvious right before them. Which is really the point Lucas was making in the prequels, that once the Jedi and the Republic through pride and greed had abandoned their original ideals and fully committed to war, then they were already giving the Devil what he needed, they had already let the dark side take hold over their destiny.
The missing piece of the puzzle is what Fives discovers when you really think about it, so it made it all the more critical that both Order 66 and the identity of the sith remained secret because it would’ve been the missing link the Jedi Order needed to discover the truth
They thought that Dooku created an army for his enemy, for his own gain...In what world does that make a lick of sense
The Clone Wars have really helped me understand Anakin's statement: "From my point of view the jedi are evil!." They made so many bad decisions and were generally just being arrogant pricks towards Anakin, whilst Palpatine was his only father figure.
Fate was pushed to that point, unfortunately. The moment Palpatine knew Anakin was destined for greatness, he made sure the Council kicks Anakin to the curb.
Palpatine is pathetic but he holds all the cards. For a Sith Lord not naturally born as one, I can see why the Sith despise him for making the Republic collapse, just like that.
Still a lousy line, though.
to be fair, Palpatine is his father.
@@MichaelMineCraftings is he? I thought it was darth plaugeis
@@Junuman1 Some theories suggest Palpatine manipulated the force into conceiving Anakin...
I mean it’s not like they had a lot of options here. Say they released his information to the public, who was already negative towards the clone wars at this point, that would only bring complete and utter chaos. And on top of that it wouldn’t have prevented order 66 in any way or the rise of the empire because by that time it was too late regardless what the Jedi order did
If the show allowed the Jedi to act competently (ie, not tie into RotS), they likely would've developed contingencies in case the Clones were ever used against the Republic and the Jedi. Then throw in them discovering (stupidly) the Inhibitor Chips which could very easily turn that army against them, the very least they could do would be develop their own version of an Order 66 situation:
"Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord."
"Well shit. Alright, send out the Phoenix contingency. Order all Jedi to leave their posts and go into hiding right now until this situation is resolved."
The only true option and chance they had to win is all the Jedi storm sidious and kill him
@@Tracer_Krieg not really Lucas tied in the show well with the movies.
He’s saying that if the show were not bound by the films, the Jedi would have likely had a contingency plan if the clones ever turn on them. The Jedi have lot of things wrong with them but blatant stupidity isn’t one of them.
@@Tracer_Krieg you act as if that would have made a monumental difference. Sure it would have saved a lot more Jedi, but a lot would still probably die. And what exactly would the contingency be? Raid the Chancellors office and attempt to arrest him... or how about telling the Senate... well no because who would understand the motivation of “Hes a Sith”. Plus all the friends he has controlling the courts. I don’t see many other options here. It would look like the Jedi doing exactly what he said they did in the movie. An attempted coup. Order 66 would still be issued, a lot of Jedi would still be caught off guard as most were off fighting a war, and the few that survived would go into hiding. Maybe onto a fallback planet/rallying point, but it would only be a matter of time before the Empire found them. I mean they found Ilum and Bogano in less than 5 years so... it doesn’t seem like much has changed here
To quote the Novelized episode three: “The Clone Wars were the perfect Jedi trap.
By fighting at all, the Jedi lost.”
The book said yoda lost the fight with sideous before he was even born. Harsh revelation but true
That book has so many good takes and extra bits. My favorite part is when Anakin attacks the CIS leaders on Mustafar and I think Nute Gunray says "Sidious promised we would be handsomely rewarded!" And Anakin is like "I'm your reward, am I not handsome enough for you?"
@@radiofreeempire7738 That is so dumb and corny, glad that’s gone😂
@@radiofreeempire7738 Wasn’t the line closer to:
“Sideous promised we’d be left in peace!”
“You misheard him. He said you’d be left in PIECES.”
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Without the Jedi leading the Clone Army, the Separatists would've won the war most likely. Direct oversight of the military by the Senate and corrupt, incompetent officers... The real problem is that they let the war distract them from the real, deeper problems of the Republic. They should've investigated Senate corruption, the origin of the Separatist alliance, listened to Dooku and maybe they could've followed the trail back to Palpatine in time.
"Believe in them, we must."
Well tell that to my brother ARC-Trooper Fives.
"only the sith deals with absolutes"
"It's not the right path, it's the only path"
Darth Yoda confirmed
"Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!"
Obi-Wan minutes after saying tha only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I mean the entire wording of "Only the Sith deal with absolutes" is meant to show the hypocrisy of the Jedi.
The entire notion of "Only the Sith" is already an absolute.
Lucas never spelled out the message about why the Jedi Order fell. I mean, it's his script, so he was telling him through his story. But did he ever spell out that the Jedi Council was hypocritical and the Jedi had become complacent and arrogant?
@@Maddinhpwsbecause you don’t understand something called context.
That sentence was used in the context of “if you’re not with me, you’re my enemy”.
The Jedi don’t view neutral factions are their enemies as they don’t have an absolute view of loyalty.
Anakin: *exists*
Jedi council: *and i took that personally*
It is theorized that Mace Windu was secretly jealous of Anakin. Mace Windu took great pride in his own identity, uniqueness, ability to reason with the dark side, etc. and so here comes alone Anakin who is all of these things but better and far younger. Of course he'd be jealous.
@@diktatoralexander88 if he let goes of his own hubris, Mace could be a Great Mentor to Anakin if he would trained the boy instead of the boy whose trained with the wrong master which is Obi-Wan Kenobi
Anakin: responds with order 66
Jedi council: we're sorry
@@DarthMalgusSith_Lord Your right, Mace would've been a better mentor and trainer for Anakin than Obi-wan (assuming Mace could cast his own hubris aside).
Obi-wan was just a big brother figure to Anakin which, though good in a battle bond kind of way, is terrible for a master and student kind of way. And Ashoka was Anakins little sister to him.
@@diktatoralexander88 well, all of Anakin's teaching was learnt from his former master, Obi-Wan Kenobi
That moment when you realize that Palpatine's plan was so good that no matter what the jedi chose to do he would win. One of the best villains in fiction and the best villain in film.
Basically Palpatine was playing 4D chess
Fr even yoda knows it was bad
@@BanishedSilentShadow3318 With himself.
Palps plan was stupid and would have failed if anyone inteligent was in authority.
@@TheAkashicTraveller the problem with the Jed-i is they had lost their way with the force although they preached about trusting it all the damn time.
Fives cared more about preventing order 66 than the Jedi did collectively
As Jedi Nick Fury once said, “I’m aware that the council has made a decision, but giving that its a stupid ass decision I’ve elected to ignore it”
Damn, I forgot about that line🤣 let's send mr Jackson back in time with this knowledge 😁
Jedi Nick Fury: "Take a seat, Master Skywalker."
_V I C T O R Y_
Imagine if Nick "Fuck the Council" Fury met Mace "Obey the council" Windu.
This should have been a BIG red flag to look into the inhibitor chip thing, regardless of what Palps told them.
Yea sure disappear then have both the separatists and republic hunting you till the end of your days not the smartest idea
@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA Exactly I don't know why people keep saying that.
Maybe they thought it would be impossible to put stuff like that into people's heads. Jedi are meditating space warrior-monks not engineers or genetic specialists and they clearly lacked technical expertise.
Agreed. They needed to investigate further
And this is why Shaak Ti is garbage
“The right path, no. The only path, yes.” I thought only a sith deals in absolutes 🤔🤔🤔
Your comment is a fucking checkmate and a half
He's not dealing absolutes, those are the one's he's been dealt
because yoda IS a sith lord hehehe
Saying only sith deal in absolutes is literally an absolute
@@JK_of_Today
no because it doesnt mean every sith deal with absolutes. There just the only group that have people that deal with absolute
It’s definitely up there but the Jedi council has a history of making terrible choices. Others have already gone through how they screwed up with Anakin and Ahsoka, but if you look into Aayla Securas history and her masters story it doesn’t get any better. The cliff notes version is they sent her master to infiltrate dookus acolytes by pretending to fall to the dark side, which he actually fell because the Jedi have the emotional experience of a mentally handicapped crocodile, and put Aayla in numerous positions that would bring back past trauma. That trauma being drugged and enslaved by I believe her uncle, so naturally they send the former slave girl to deal with multiple slaving rings throughout her career. I honestly question if having the force makes one allergic to both common sense and basic psychological knowledge…
Makes order 66 a good thing
Playing devil's advocate here:
There was no way they would have survived. Even if they discovered the truth, they would get crushed by the Separatists.
From the moment the CW began, perhaps even from the time Palpatine was made chancellor, they had already lost.
At best, they could have prevented Palpatine's victory by killing him, but the Jedi wouldn't survive regardless.
Amazing everything that you said is true
They could have fled
@@Poempedoempoex
They couldn't just flee
They are meant to defend the Republic and keep the people safe.
Also, if they left, they would lose all support they had left. And finally, Palpatine would have found another way to kill them(Death Star, for instance)
@@juanlaise1059 They should have put 2 and 2 together with this discovery and the discovery that Tup's chip malfunctioned and activated order 66. They should have known they were trapped and given up. And the death star construction took over 20 years. Surely they would have had a plan by then to defeat palpatine.
@@Poempedoempoex
"They should have known they were trapped and given up"
Really? Give up? That's not what Jedi do.
Even if they left, Palpatine woukd have found a way to kill them. Frame them for some crime or have a Sith Assasin impersonate a Jedi and kill important senators.
They were fucked beyond measure.
If not for Palpatine, the separatists.
They were trapped.
The only reason Palps waited so long to issue order 66 was because he wanted Anakin and because he wanted to gain enough political support to declare himself emperor(which he would have gotten anyway).
What do you expect the Jedi to do? They literally had no other options but to fight on. If they recalled the Clones, there would be no one to fight and the separatists would win. On top of that, the public would potentially start rioting because the war effort was already unpopular. If this news got out it would lead to utter chaos.
The Jedi were clearly suspicious and knew something was up, but they didn't know what specifically. And it's a Catch-22 because if they even hinted that they were suspicious with the clones, Dooku or Sidious might panic and issue Order 66. Obviously the Jedi didn't know about Order 66 specifically, but they knew something was up and were worried Dooku would do something desperate if he knew that the Jedi knew that _he_ had made the Clones.
The Jedi had to maintaining an aura of confidence while secretly investigating the matter (which they did by investigating the Chancellor) and trying to end the war as fast as possible. That was literally the only option the Jedi had.
Youre treating this like history and not a fictional world.. perhaps you would have gotten straight As in your history class if you dedicated this much effort to it
@@derangedcrouton1864 ? ok
The thing is if palpatine called order 66 the jedi could hide out in the temple due to all of then already being in the council room
@@derangedcrouton1864 bold of you to assume he doesnt dedicate the same or even more time in his history class rather than star wars
Agreed. People are acting like the Republic and Jedi can just stop using Clone Troopers and then hand out flyers to enlist regular people into the war. If the clones are recalled, the public moral will drop as roughly 3 years of war effort will be seen as wasted.
The fact they were worried about the public's APPROVAL is such a subtle way of showing just how far the council had fallen. They weren't Jedi anymore, just politicians with laser swords and psychic powers.
Okay but he’s right. They’re fighting to ensure the survival of the Republic. Without an army, the gala at would be completely under separatist control within months, and Sidious would lead it. The reason why Palpatine created the clone army was so that the people would willingly give him uncontrolled power as he was the chancellor of the Republic. No matter which path the Jedi chose, they were most likely doomed anyways. This was genuinely their only option for even a chance of survival.
Sidious would not be able to lead the CIS directly and can’t build his Empire off of it. Plus the CIS had no interest in taking the entire Galaxy. The Republic gave a peace deal to the CIS, they would be stupid to not take it.
"No. There is another." They could've simply followed up on Fives' investigation. Believe in the clones, right? So believe in Fives too!
@@Vandicoup I agree. However, Fives is an example of the Jedi's ideological blindness and hypocrisy and only goes to further prove the idea that they were always doomed. Clone Wars is such a good show by the way =D
The Jedi were just too entrenched in politics to back off strategically. Once they used the Clone Army, the Jedi sealed their fate. The only way to have avoided the Republic from becoming the Empire was to have avoided the Clone Wars, possibly finding a way to keep the peace and compromise with the Separatists. Instead, they became war generals.
Anakin: "What are you talking about? This isn't the scene where they deny me the rank of Master."
"They're holding me back! Cuz they're jealous!"
Flips table and throws juice box.
@@Aizen2468 *throws juicebox and flips table
pfft, its obviously throws table and flips juicebox. AND IT LANDS RIGHT SIDE UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take a sip.
@@u.v.s.5583 The cow goes moo.
The decision wasn’t “dumb”. It was a terrible decision, but as they said here they had basically no choice. What the Jedi Council should have done since the start of the clone wars, was separate from the council and refuse to get involved in the war (instead only remaining peacekeepers and helping civilians). They were getting increasingly entwined with corrupt politics and a messy war. That’s why it was so easy for Palpatine to take over. He was literally controlling both sides of the board. They needed the clone army to fight the war, but didn’t account for the fact that they virtually signed their own death warrants by having an army of sleeper agents. The people had already lost faith in the Jedi which made it easy for the public to accept that they were traitors. They were just screwed from the start (but yeah, they increasingly made it worse). What they really should have done was further investigate fives claim and (like Ahsoka and Rex in season 7) prepared to remove the chips from as many clones as possible.
Arguably, if they had told the public things wouldn’t have ended as bad as they did. The council was extremely short sighted in their “okay. Guess we can’t do anything about it. Better just end this war fast and hope we can clean up the mess before it bites us in the ass.” But they just weren’t able to see things as clearly as they once could (the darkside (Palpatine) was clouding their vision). I do wonder how bad it would have been if they just came clean with the investigation. Wouldn’t the people start to trust them if they revealed a giant conspiracy? There was still a good amount of people against the war and the push for more clones. Also it’d put a damper in Palpatine’s plans if public ratings for the war went down and no one trusted the clones anymore. I don’t think the droid army would be “impossible” to deal with using normally conscripted soldiers and Jedi (who caught through them like butter most the time).
There are a *TON* of examples of the order making dumb decisions in TCW. The series showed just how stubborn and flawed they had become as an order. There was an entire plot point when they thought Yoda (literal oldest and wiset Jedi) was either going insane or being controlled by Sidious because he was hearing Qui Gon and they were just all 200% sure that was impossible since they knew everything about the force (discovery and innovation is for chumps I guess), even though Obi-Wan and Anakin both heard Qui Gon before (with Anakin still hearing Qui Gon even when he wasn’t addressing him because chosen one). They especially have the terrible habit of making bad decisions while acting like they are the most wise and intelligent people in the room (then they still let themselves get trapped in wartime politics like a bunch of push overs). They were also kinda dark at the time. Like they were accelerating training and making younglings Padawans and sending them to the battlefield before they were ready (they were also advancing them to Jedi Knight earlier). They didn’t provide Anakin the guidance or comfort he needed, but continued to use and expect something from him. Forcing Ahsoka out of the order, not letting Anakin follow his force vision, not at least preparing for the clones to turn, and so much more. Them becoming Generals at all is another huge issue. The Order was in massive decline during this era, which is why the force saw to it they be cleansed (and the Sith later; balance was brought by rebooting both).
Actually the war kind of involved them. Because if you recall A couple of key separatist leaders by the names General grievous and count Dooku we’re basically out to destroy the Jedi. Even if the Jedi had chosen not to get involved from the start they still would’ve been pulled into the war because general grievous would’ve killed a Jedi in cold blood forcing the Jedi to investigate it. And count Dooku was a Sith the Jedi’s sworn enemy. So it’s understandable that they would need the Jedi in order to have a fighting chance against such an enemy. So honestly this is a war that the Jedi could not stay out of regardless
@@grizzly_manbanimation8436 Once Palpatine controlled the Senate and Duku controlled the Separatists, they held all the cards. It was only a question of deciding "how" to destroy the Jedi.
I agree completely. The Jedi weren't as "pure" as they were supposed to be neither their actions and words were "pure". That's why people stopped believing in them. They were supposed to be peace keepers, not generals. I would support them going to war but if it was only to defend some innocent planet from the separatists. But no, they became involved in politics and that stopped them from acting like they should. For example, in Alderaan they didn't defend it because the senate didn't allowed it.
People say the Jedi didn't have many options later in the war because Sidious and Dooku could rush their plan, but if the Jedi Order kept faithful to their ways and beliefs, then maybe Dooku wouldn't have turned to the dark side, just like Bariss Offee and some other Jedis. And we know how important Dooku was in Sidious plan.
Like you said, they almost looked like a military academy, rushing their young padawans to war. They failed in some things they weren't supposed to fail, like Anakin's personal troubles.
But i think their main problem was not understanding what was happening to the clones even though Fives told them something was wrong and they underestimated Sidious even though he was preparing something big
@@obi-wankenobi6498 Not just seperatists, everyone. The Jedis as peacekeepers have the duty to remain neutral and keep the peace wherever they can regardless of belief, creed or origins. The main issue with the Jedis is that they had grown very prideful and arrogant in their power. Note how their main Temple is located near where the Senate unite for their debates, they are at the top of structures on Corruscant, where High-borns and the nobility lives. They turned a blind eye to blatant signs of political corruption because it benefited the Republic, by extention, themselves.
Another point of note is that the Lightsabers were meant to be a tool as a last resort as even the most devout peacekeeper would know that sometimes there are people who just cannot be reached with words alone and leave you with no other choice, but even then, they would not employ violence unless it is to protect the innocent or their own lives.
To be fair even before yoda was born the jedi order was a bitch of the republic
They took a long time to be corrupted, literally eons
They fought for the old republic through centuries and even before that
So they couldnt just choose to left the republic aside, unfortunately the jedi order was just branch of the republic millitary at the time of the clone wars, even thinking to renounce the republic affairs would be considered madness and a rogue action
Poor yoda. He loved and cared too much to realize he was being led on from the beginning.
Knowing everything that was to come, it made that first episode of season one (the one where he bonds with the clones while on his way to meet the Troydarian King) so much more painful to watch.
but why call him smart he can't even talk properly
@The DisaStarWars just NOO theres another of his spiecies that talks just fine...
@@TheCubecrafer no
Sideous knew this and saw it as a weakness, all the more reason they were blind
I do like this in the novelization with Yoda admitting to himself that he is responsible for the failure of the Jedi. He trained the Jedi to be like the Jedi of his youth, the demilitarized peacekeepers after the Ruusan Reformations and the order stagnated for centuries while the Sith grew stronger and undermined the Republic.
And it only took the deaths of the entire rest of the Order he was responsible for. A lot of people blame Mace for being rude or Obi-Wan for not listening better, but Yoda's the one who picked and led them.
Lmao the Sith got stronger when Palpatine lost to Windu, Yoda, Luke and Anakin.
Not one Sith was the strongest force user.
They had to resort to plot armor of the Republic having no standing army or reserves to beat the Jedi.
I disagree about this being dumb. In Attack of the Clones, the Kaminoans were expecting a Jedi to arrive at some point to assess the progress, and Sifo-Dyas was their primary contact who placed the order without the authorization of the Jedi Council or the Senate. Jango told Obi-Wan he was recruited to be the template by "a man called Tyranus," who we later learn is Dooku, but the Jedi do not know that until Clone Wars Season 6.
The only implication that there could have been something bad about the clone army was that Obi-Wan tracked Jango Fett to Kamino, and Jango was the template. Jango was identified as just a bounty hunter who didn't have real allegiance to anyone except his son and the people paying him. He knew something was wrong when a Jedi showed up because that meant his attempt to kill Padme was realized, so he fled to Geonosis where his employer, Tyranus, was located. Obi-Wan tells Yoda and Mace Windu that there doesn't seem to be a motive with the Kaminoans; he went to Kamino looking for a bounty hunter and learned of a clone army that he was expected to inspect.
In Season 6, Lama Su contacted Tyranus about the malfunctioning chip, and it is said that Sifo-Dyas and Tyranus wanted the bio chips to be a secret safeguard against rogue Jedi. Whether that is true or just a manipulation from Tyranus, as we have an outside perspective to believe that Sidious manipulated the whole thing, the episode doesn't show Tyranus' face so we don't know if they knew what the army was really for, or they knew that Tyranus and Dooku were the same person. Lama Su also says "these Jedi are a curious cult" after the conversation ends, implying that he may believe Tyranus to be a Jedi and his replacement contact after Sifo-Dyas died (considering Tyranus provided the template and the bio chip).
The clones were loyal to the Jedi the whole time, so there is no implication of a connection except that Dooku was involved with Jango Fett and Sifo-Dyas 10 years before Attack of the Clones. Did the Sith know of the army? Of course, but there was no way to connect the motive to the action.
Huzzah! A man of quality
I applaud you for your big pp and your big brain
How long did it take u to write this comment? Also very good point I agree
Add that the clones, apart for some superior officer of the navy, were the only army the Republic had, and were barely able to contain the Separatists' droid armies. To not rely on them at that point meant that Duku would have won and marched on the Jedi temple, or bombed it from the orbit.
A medical investigation would have concluded nothing, since it would have been the Kaminoans (controlled by Duku) or the scientists of the Republic (controlled by Palpatine) doing it.
It was simply too late.
yep agree strongly
Sad we never saw Dark Disciple as a clone wars arc. There’s some real good council mistakes in there
Dark Disciple is such a great book
I'm actually rereading it.
That's the one where they hire Ventress to assassinate Dooku, right?
Oof haven't read that yet.. where can I get it?
@@angramainyu9220 yes
Yoda knew the downfall but didn't see any other way out of this he knew Sidious won the war
I always considered it strange that the Jedis did not think that the whole clone thing was an obvious trap. But looking at the situation, it was obviously the only option for them. Although, that doesn't take away from the fact that they were overconfident.
Not just a trap but every clone came from a mandalorian ( a warrior race know to fight and kill jedi's in past) bounty hunter. Plus they never fully investigated the clone program start to finish.
Jedi: hey about the clone program...
Kamino cloner interrupts master jedi we have 100k clones ready for battle with another million on the way we even got their equipment and ships ready.
Jedi: oh ok I just got a call jedi need help I'll b taking wats ready... after battle I think I was told to investigate something.
Clone: sir enemy detected at pt .....
Jedi: ah to arms we gotta get those clankers
Not granting anakin the rank of master and expelling Ahsoka from the Jedi order and not telling anakin about obi wans”death” were the poorest decisions they ever made
There's a list of "poor decision" I'll say than the one's you've said:
1. Letting a corrupt senator starve and hurt people .
2. Giving Mace Windu a seat because he followed "protocol".
3. Indirectly Starting the Clone Wars by Giving Dooku reasons to go to the dark side.
4. Giving up on their own apprentices when they've have time to be saved (Luminara giving up on Barris)
5. Giving Barris good reasons to go to the dark side
6. Listening to palpatine to ignore the two people who warned them about the fall of the jedi named Maul and Fives when the horrible but manipulative chancellor says "We need to go back to our war efforts"
7. Not do anything when the nightsisters made the nightbrothers their slaves
..And there's a bunch I can tell
@@rithikdhakshnamoorthy2974dooku's fall to the darkside is tragic because he wanted to do what's right, and it reallt highlights the corruption and how they order was complicit in the whole ordeal.
If they had just listened to Dooku a lot of things would have played out differently.
Anakin didn't deserve the rank of Master
Ahsoka’s expulsion was only a mistake in hindsight tbf, given that Barriss was the actual culprit. Anakin wasn’t ready to be a master, they were pretty open about only accepting onto the council because of Palpatine rather than merit, and he only cared about the rank. Not sharing the plan about Obi-wan was pretty much a necessity given that Anakin was not exactly great about operational security. More than likely, he would blab to Palpatine to about it, exposing Obi-wan early.
So they find out that the army thats been fighting along side of them was created by their enemy and yet they do nothing about it
That's what happens when you retcon something that treads onto the official plot of Revenge of the Sith. You can't have the characters act even remotely logical, or else the movies never happen.
Yah, the Jedi were that god damn stupid, they easily could just not tell the public about it, it’s not like it would leak easily unless the clones or a Jedi spread the info, and they probably would have no reason to do so, sense its a matter between the Jedi, dooku, and clones, not the people and the Jedi or clones.
@@Tracer_Krieg Facts. I’m all for people loving the Prequels but they really make no sense. TCW fixes some problems but makes up new ones too, like this. The Jedi wilfully played into their enemies hands, as Yoda says they must “play their game”, without even an investigation into the clones, their origin, etc. Hell, just take a dead clone and do an actual post-mortem on them. Discover the chip, do some slicing and computer shit and figure out that there’s a whole list of commands that can brainwash every clone into killing Jedi.
*sigh*
Fives literally uncovered the truth. You would think that the council would’ve launched their own investigation properly into what he was trying to tell them after figuring all this stuff out.
What do you expect the Jedi to do? They literally had no other options but to fight on. If they recalled the Clones, there would be no one to fight and the separatists would win. On top of that, the public would potentially start rioting because the war effort was already unpopular. If this news got out it would lead to utter chaos.
The Jedi were clearly suspicious and knew something was up, but they didn't know what specifically. And it's a Catch-22 because if they revealed that someone was suspicious with the clones, then Dooku or Sidious might panic and issue Order 66. Obviously the Jedi didn't know about Order 66 specifically, but they knew something was up and were worried Dooku would do something desperate if he knew that the Jedi knew that he had made the Clones.
The Jedi had to maintaining an aura of confidence while secretly investigating the matter (which they did by investigating the Chancellor) and trying to end the war as fast as possible. That was literally the only option the Jedi had.
Episode 2 epilogue
Mace windu “the clones look just like this guy that was trying to kill me, we should really investigate that”.
When you know your enemy has aided in the creation of your army, you don't just believe in them. You investigate your army that was made by the enemy to figure out if there are any vulnerabilities.
Love the little touch of Anakins visible disapproval when Yoda says not to tell the chancellor about the clones. Not that it mattered but still.
No, it does matter! I think this shows the start of his turn to the dark side. In Episode 3, he believes that the Jedi aren't telling him things and not granting him the rank of master. This is a seed to further those thoughts he has in Episode 3.
I agree with you, my friend. The Jedi Council did so many horrible decisions besides following a corrupted Jedi Code that brought them to do more harm than good.
But this led Anakin to trust Palpatine more and looked up to him as a father figure as well as mentor. Though the Jedi Council’s ignorance and pride was what Palpatine used as an advantage to manipulate Anakin to the Dark Side.
They didn't exactly have any other choice. If they tried to disconnect themselves from the clones then they would lose the war, and palpatine could ditch his whole two sided war plan and just force the galaxy into submission using the seperatist army. The decision makes sense; use the clones to swiftly end the war before palpatine uses the clones himself. As for what to do with the clones after the war is over, that is still a question, but that scenario is much better than just ditching the clones and having no army against a clone and droid army.
Are you serious? No other choice but to cease investigation or begin preparing any sort of countermeasures? Sure, it would have caused problems for them to cease using the clones, but that doesn’t mean they should do absolutely nothing.
Every time they were alone with clones on a ship they could just knock them all out with the Force and take the chips out lol
bro sounds ridiculous @@OG-ColorfulAbyss.
if they stopped using the clone army the entire war effort would be in jeopardy, and the faith of the people of the republic in the Jedi Order would crumble
the truth is that at this point Palpatine already had trapped the Jedi, both as a institution in the galaxy, and even as a philosophy itself, making them fighting a war@@aaronmueller1560
@@aaronmueller1560 I agree with the person however they could have started a investigation themselves
What kills me about this scene is they literally did not do anything-because they had faith in the support and loyalty of the clones over their enemy. Yoda was basically like they saved our lives many times they have no knowledge of this they would never betray us.
"Before our enemies designs reach completion..."
Meanwhile Palpi is giggling to himself that they think they can keep his own plans a secret from him.
What the hell else were they supposed to do?
Call time out in the middle of a war?
Droid army.
Do something, maybe meditate through the force to find sidious or back out of the war
The Jedi should've withdrawn from the war or at least reduced their involvement until they figured out why the sith created the clone army
@@StarWarsRebelsStar you realize Sidious was clouding their vision, right? Otherwise, the Jedi would’ve sensed him and stopped his plans long ago.
They weren’t able to find him until the final days of the war and by that point it was too late.
SOMETHING would have been good. They later on find out about the biochips, with Five's whole freakout, and you combine that with this knowledge that the Clone Army was provided for them BY the Sith, those two pieces of info ALONE would be enough to investigate and at least protect themselves, or have some sort of Armageddon fallback plan.
But instead the Chancellor turned on them, the Clones turned on them, and they were utterly unprepared and caught off guard, like all of these clues had just evaporated from their minds the instant the episode ended. Because they didn't warn the Jedi in the field, most of them got shot in the back without ever suspecting their loyal troops.
The problem is, that was totally in-character for the Jedi of the time. They were so paralyzed by their reliance on guidance from the Force that without it, they really just went along with the flow.
The jedi council became ignorant of so many things, it's no wonder they were betrayed
On top of being complacent over a millennia of peace, the dark Sith temple to which the Jedi temple was built over was intended to uncorrupt its dark influence ironically became corrupted by said dark influence.
@@KuDastardly I actually really hate that fact. Why and how exactly is there a Sith Temple in Courasant? It was home to the Republic for nearly 20,000 years and it just so happens to have a Sith Temple that is OLDER than the Birth Place of the Sith AKA Korriban/Moraban? No, that makes absolutely no sense
@@xrstevenson thought the same thing when I saw that. More disney stupidity. Altought coursant wasn’t the jedis first temple
Ahsoka Knows All Too Well
@@xrstevenson “During a period in which the Sith dominated the galaxy, the Sith took control of Coruscant, the capital of the Republic. The Sith constructed an immense black shrine over a dark-side vergence on a mountain at the heart of the planet. The Jedi eventually laid siege to the shrine, burning it to its foundations and defeating the Sith. The Jedi would eventually construct a temple above the former site of the shrine to contain the dark energy emanating from the vergence and metaphorically bury the Sith legacy.” Wookiepedia, Sith War (Old Republic)
Pretty wack but the sith once had control of coruscant, also this is og stuff Disney didn’t make this.
Clones have one of the most tragic stories in all science fiction. Imagine being brought to life already enslaved to be a soldier. Destined to most likely die in combat, and if not, only live a half life anyways. To top it off they're chipped to follow an order without the will to stop it.
And then the Empire screwed them over by replacing them with human conscripts.
Not to make light of a clone troopers life, it's pretty awful; but there's a lot of steep competition in for tragic lives in scifi. All tomorrows and I have no mouth snd I must scream come to mind as the S tier of horrific lives
Palpatine is like Geri, he plays chess but controls both sides of the board
The Jedi council believed they have full control, but they were blind.
Actually in this case they realize that they were being played. At this point in the war, they had no choice.
@@BrowncoatGofAZ yup that's righttt
No they didnt they knew from the start they were probably being deceived but they had no other choice but to continue on because like Yoda said releasing the information to the public or even trying to call back all the clones to get chips removed would cause utter chaos and the CIS would just conquer the worlds they abandoned
What Yoda didnt know, was the enemy's design was already complete, and he played right into his hand by making this decision.
This is why Yoda went into exile. He realized the stupid move he just made
The council was between a rock and a hard place here. They obviously depend on the clones and can't just stop using them with the Dooku and Grievous still out there. But they also know the Sith created the clones. Not knowing everything about the Sith plot, they could also put themselves with a general order to stop using clones or if suddenly right after the Fives incident, high ranking Jedi started phasing them out. They didn't have a lot of good options. But they absolutely should have continued the investigation into why the Sith created the clones. The real reason the Jedi were wiped out though is still Anakin. Because once Anakin betrayed the council, and he gave Palpatine the political leverage he needed to get away with pulling Order 66.
According to the Fandom, trusting clones who you fought side by side with is a stupid move.
Limited perspectives
Unfortunately this is a case of the omniscient viewer seeing everything coming, but not considering the perspective of the characters and setting the characters are in
No but not having a plan to deal with it after a clone literally malfunctioned and killed a Jedi is
Palpatine would not have won if the Jedi were more competent
@@user-ct8um1bh3b a clone that the Jedi were told by official Republic investigators, I.e Palpys minions, who simply had a malfunction to his inhibitor chip which was, according to them, meant to make sure the clones didn’t become overly aggressive. And what kind of plan would that entail? How would it deal with the 10 million active troops deployed in the war? Fight them? Well no cause we saw how that turned out. Run away? We saw how that turned out too. And what would they tell the Jedi Order as a whole? “Hey the guys you fight side by side, eat with, sleep with, might end up killing you when you least expect it. We don’t know really know how to fix it just keep an eye out.” Yeah that seems like it would go over real well.
@@pewpewplasma3793 I agree with this analysis whole heartedly
To be fair, they are "Peace Keepers"
Not smart thinkers.
Define the term peace keeper, how can you keep peace with a laser sword???
@@KV_1615 just look at Switzerland, they are completely peaceful, but they also are completely ready to an invasion, or just look at nukes, they kept peace between the Major power
@@KV_1615 Peace keeping often involve violence. How do you established peace with Hitler? You can't, you need to fight back. Sometimes being a peacekeeper means being a warrior.
Like a dog, keepers of the peace :3
"Hello human in all black clothing, welcome to my home. Please mind the glass on the floor from the window you just came through. My owner isn't here at the moment, so feel free to help yourself to anything. Mean while I'll jump up and try to lick you and maybe get a few back rubs."
*Beware, overly affectionate dog will lick you to death . . . :3*
@@KV_1615 by killing violent people... violently
This whole plot thread was the greatest story told in Star Wars, and why I love the prequels so much.
Out of the almost 900 years that little green toad had been alive, he couldn’t tell the chancellor was the one pulling the strings. It still pisses me off 🤣
This Jedi Council wouldn’t last a day in the Old Republic Era.
Yoda and Mace could pretty much take on a lot of members during the Old Republic Era but I am unsure of it tho
The high tiers of the Skywalker Saga are more powerful than even the strongest KOTOR Sith and Jedi.
@@user-ct8um1bh3b Revan must be laughing now.
Whats "ironic" is that your observation of the Jedi Council is the same many have (including myself) of our present day society when talking about the past!
@@user-ct8um1bh3b bro you trippin
Yo welcome back
I will be uploading consistently
@@StarWarsRebelsStar damn, not posting for a year and comming out lol
@@StarWarsRebelsStar let's hope so
I imagine palpating sitting back in his chair and those animated gangster sunglasses and blunt suddenly appear on him
Okay so let’s say the Jedi turn on the clones, now they’ve got no army, lack of ships and the separatists have taken over the planets that clones occupy. You’ve also got roughly 2 million clone troopers with no purpose.
This really wasn’t a stupid decision
Instead of turning on the clones, look at Fives's report, then quietly recall divisions to have the chips removed (and convince the Kaminoans to halt the use of the inhibitor chips once enough clones have been altered (yes, Palps would eventually catch on and execute Order 66, but then you have enough clones loyal to the republic rather than Sidious to at least lessen the blow)
Retrieve from the battlefield, entrust the commands to admirals like Yularen and Tarkin and lock all Jedi in the temple preparing for a siege.
This just proves that palp was a genius, there was nothing they could’ve done
Yeah there was no winning for the jedi either way. Hence even not going to kamino and not getting the clones would have mattered. It was already stated in episode 2 that the republics army was not big enough to deal with the sepetarists army.
And if the sepetarists won palpatine would have also won the war.
The moment palpatine was voted for chancellor in episode 1 was the moment he won.
People make fun of count dooku and ventress and grievous and call them weak. But they ignore this video where Yoda admits his own life and mace windus too were saved by these clone troopers.
Nah dude, the jedi should have investigated Kamino and the clones very thoroughly after realizing this
@@foolduke2810 Or better yet, simply tell Kamino that Tyrannus was Dooku.
bad writing could make anyone look like a genius
“Win the war swiftly, we must, before our enemy’s designs come to completion, whatever they may be.”
Their deliberate choice to NOT look into what exactly their enemy’s design meant was their dumbest choice. I can agree with the coverup, but they should have tried to find out why Dooku made them an army.
Title : council decision
Video : Yoda decision 😂
For a thousand year old super wise Jedi master, Yoda sure likes to fuck up and forget things. Perhaps all that incense he's been smoking got to him...
This was not a dumb decision. As Yoda says, they fell into a trap and they were left with two horrible options. This speaks more to Palpatine's guile than anything the Council did.
Ultimately they should have probably dedicated their resources to solving this mystery, or connecting the dots between this and what Fives discovered. But the war kept them distracted.
If they want to put their faith in them like human beings, they have to treat them like human beings. But the clones didn't get that treatment, soooooo.
They got that treatment from every jedi in that council chamber.
@@mahguvnah7403 Ki Adi Mundi:
@@mahguvnah7403 no, every Jedi in that council chamber treated them like slaves who didn't have the option to say no. Even anakin, who can argueably be said to be the most sympathetic Jedi towards the clones, even he still treated them like fodder in the end by not standing up to the political forces that were throwing their lives away.
@@derek96720 General Kenobi by FAR was the Only Jedi that Truly cared for the clones... he started the scene of wearing clone armor as a sense of unity on the battlefront. Many jedi come after him in this aspect before Anakin, who only, cared enough I would say..
@@dominator9833 pong krell
Yoda saying "yeah" is cursed.
So instead of admitting a problem they chose to cover it up Bane foresaw that Jedi hubris would bring about the Siths' victory, he was right.
Whatever they did, they would lose. They were simply overstretched at the point of breaking and Palpatine had a loaded deck
People complaining that the Jedi did nothing. For all they knew the clones were created to make an army and force conflict therefore pushing more planets into separatist control after seeing the peaceful pacific republic muster a large army of clones bred for conflict. So they chose to trust that the clones would be able to be of some good the same way Luke turned out to be despite having a bad creation origin. Also the Jedi aren’t some mystical force of good. They’re just one side of the coin. They do what they can in what they think is right and hope that it’s the right move
True
Yoda is literally responsible for every death that occurs in the following 20 years
It's the will of the force
im pretty sure thats why he confined himself to the planet that Luke finds him crawling on.
No, that's still Anakin, Palpatine, clones, empire. You know, the ones who actually murdered all those people.
@@gaigeschaal9070 Anakin is nothing but a slave of the Force itself. He served both sides of the Force during his entire life, and suffered because of that. Palpatine and his evil plans was the cause of all those deaths.
@@usernotfound342 I'm not letting him of that easy. Whatever the influence, he made the decision to kill people
"Believe in them we must."
Rex- Belief achieved.
The Jedi Council's Decision, more like Yoda and Windu's Decision and rest of the Council doesn't deciede anything, no wonder they fail so much.
Yoda's arrogance, lack of flexibility when it came to Anakin and being too soft when he made a decision like with not training the chosen one because he was too old and then just letting Obi-wan do it with no punishment. In my opinion jedi order had to fall with this leadership but it takes nothing from Palpatine he was the strongest force user (except from some legendary creatures) in galaxy this time probably only Anakin with finisged training could defeat this powerfull sith.
"Our enemy have made us a army. Lets use them blindly and ignore anything about their purpose." Seems rational
You’d think they’d put some sort of countermeasure against the clones just in case if they found out the enemy was the one that handed over a free army to them just in case
@@super-zw3ep Or at least advice all jedi to be careful the whole time.
"no one, not even the chancellor, may know"
i hate to break it to you, master yoda, but...
Drinking game: Take a shot every time Yoda says “We must”
Should've just titled it every jedi council scene
This particular choice is actually kind if smart, but when you've got Obi-Wan telling you the Sith Lord has control the Senate and that Dooku created the Clone Army, maybe you look into those things rather than letting Palpatine's plan play out.
sorry for the response to a 2 year post xD, but the rots novelization points that the reason that the jedi didnt pushed more hard a investigation on palpatine before is that, because of the state of emergency and other measures, *already* were the most powerful person in the galaxy at that point, and didnt realized that the war was a trap for the order
It's crazy that a Fives who was just a clone did more than the entire Jedi counsel
Yoda: “Not even the chancellor may know”
Palpatine: *Laughs in Order 66*
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
--Dark Helmet
Here’s a thought that clone trooper who tried to save everyone fives oh yea maybe friggen take those damn chips out and find out why palpatine was the clones target to kill something along those friggen lines or better yet get a fresh chip sample and have it analyzed by a black market scientist or bounty hunter and boom order 66 discovered and everyone but the sith saved
Well Revenge Of The Sith exist
You do realise its fiction.
Some generals, and shak ti had trust in the clones, they could have listened Fives. But nooOoOOOoo, execute Order 66;
Don’t forget, they were about to look into the inhibitor chips, but the Kaminoan Doctor injected something into Fives without anyone looking, causing him to slowly go crazy and sporadic. Without the knowledge that the Kaminoan injected Fives with something, they could only assume this was the result of removing the inhibitor chip. After that, all the Jedi had to go on was that Dooku had a hand in the Clone army’s creation. Now those like Rex and Kix became suspicious of the chips, but since Rex had to focus on the war effort, he couldn’t put more research into the issue. Kix eventually found out what the chips were really for, but Dooku also found out the Kix learned the truth, which led to Kix’s capture were he would frozen until long after the Republic and Empire.
I’m not saying that the Jedi didn’t have their flaws and issues, but Sidious was a master strategist that prepared for as many contingencies as possible. And even if the Jedi were to find out about the chips, they wouldn’t exactly eat able to secretly take them out of every clone without Sidious taking notice, which would lead him into activating order 66 sooner. As stupid as it may seem, this was something that had long slipped from the Jedi’s control.
@@jaydonmagan4694 truth be told I don’t care darth sidious is the best Sith Lord ever same with darth Vader my two favorite sith duo team ever I mean the planning the expenses the timing it was all too perfect I loved it but the Jedi could have did something but they chose to wait after the war too bad in the end there arrogance there so called enlightenment and there corrupted wisdom all played a role in the sith grand plan to wipe out the Jedi order leaving only Luke skywalker the last of the Jedi to redeem them all
Not a dumb decision. If this was known so many would've rallied to the Separatists. At least this way they almost won the war
Yeah and then they died.
From their perspective yes, but overall no matter what they did the Jedi would've lost.
And the Jedi's fate is officially sealed!
As Grand Master Yoda said, keeping it a secret was their only option. They couldn’t just get rid of the clones.
This plus 5's claims about chip implants that would FORCE them to KILL the Jedi should have been a 2+2=4 moment.
Yeah. This decision waste such a bad one, it was ignoring Fives. Man...
But to be fair, the Jedi Council and Jedi in general were in decline and becoming corrupt and arrogant. Their downfall was inevitable absent serious radical reformation that they simply weren't going to let happen.
I wouldn't say it was much of a decision. They had no other options at that point and couldn't cast away their soldiers during a war
I saw the title and immediately thought "do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"
"I sense a trap."
"Next move?"
"Spring the trap."
Things that never made sense:
The republic appeared to have no troops of any kind, even if the Jedi were peace keepers were they really patrolling the outer rim, standing guard at key facilities?
The republic had no droids of their own with battle ability
Blasters and hyperspace tech but not EMP weapons
Never reprogrammed droids captured to fight for them (remember Rebels showed us even young kids were able to do this)
a dozen troopers take out a master easily who obviously knew they had turned on him (deer in the headlights look) but a youngling takes out several with deflected bolts at the temple
Palpatine didnt program order 66 to focus on the most powerful Jedi first and the troopers to be more tactical about it, thus allowing Yoda to feel what was happening to other Jedi and dispatch the only TWO troopers near him easily.
1) The Republics “military”, if you can even call it that before the Clone Wars, was made up of hundreds of different planetary security forces all funded and provided by the host planets themselves. That’s where all of those fleet Admirals on both sides come from. That’s also where a lot of the Separatist militias come from, same goes for the Republic. Ex: the people of Christophsis. It’s hard to assemble and mobilize an army when they all have differing command structures, styles, etc.
2) All of the major droid manufacturers were apart of the CIS. Kinda hard to kickstart your own droid army when the major producers are the enemy.
3) EMP weapons are hard to manage, kind of difficult to make, and have to be used very carefully or you risk disabling your own forces and key civilian structures. I.e the Zillo Beast arc. Also the standard issue clone weaponry used an ion variation of blaster ammo that helped short circuit droid systems. That’s why their bolts are blue instead of your typical red.
4) Why would you waste time and resources trying to reprogram a few B1s or B2s when they are almost quite literally a dime a dozen? It’s much easier and much more efficient to just scrap them all and clean up later. And they did try this, but only used reprogrammed droids for stealth insertions because the average droid wasn’t exactly tactically smart. Also where in Rebels did they show this?
5) I’ll assume your talking about Ki-Aro Mundi as the guy who looked surprised and chalk that up to standing out in the open in the middle of an active battlefield, and then suddenly having to defend both his back and front. He was dead no matter what he did. And I don’t remember ever seeing younglings ever taking on clones during O66, all I remember is them running away.
6) Why would you ever get that specific in orders? And it’s not like once the order was given the clones were tactically inept. We know for a fact the clones were still very tactically sound and *very* brutal and efficient once the order was given. Yoda and all the Jedi who were able to sense what was happening felt the death of numerous Jedi simultaneously, so basically what it comes down to there is luck. Luck that they weren’t the first ones to be shot in back and killed giving them time to react.
@@pewpewplasma3793 While I agree with everything you said, there was a padawan in ROTS that killed a few 501st clones when Bail Organa went to check out the Jedi Temple, that is until the padawan was gunned down by the other clones.
@@jaydonmagan4694 if that’s the moment he’s referring to the difference would be between situational awareness. The padawan knew for *certain* that the troopers were his enemies, so deflecting a few bolts and killing them wouldn’t be so difficult. The master, in this Ki-Adi Mundi who I assume is the one he is comparing, was confused before promptly being gunned down by his own soldiers. And regardless the padawan in question as you said died shortly after with a single well placed shot
@@pewpewplasma3793 Facts. Plus, the Republic’s official military completely dissolved once the ancient Sith empire was no longer a threat. Why maintain a military when there is no threat to the Republic for nearly a millennium?
@@SolidWorkMan Complacency is the worst kind of "safe guard." That's a big factor in their downfall. If they had maintained at least a decent sized military force, then none of this would've ever happened in the first place. They still had an entire galaxy to patrol and protect and serve. 10,000 Jedi aren't enough. IRL, we only have 1 planet to serve and protect and yet we have 1-2MIL+ soldiers and 1MIL+ cops protecting and serving all across one entire country, and that's just in the USA. So of course the Republic should've maintained a military presence after the war. Their biggest downfall was their complacency and overconfidence, as if another war would never happen. And yet here we are.
I think this scene is genius, is shows how much Palpatine has the Jedi beat, and he doesn't even know it; Palpatine tried to cover up the fact that Dooku created the Clone Army and he believes he succeeded, but in fact he didn't even have to cover it up.
Palpatine couldn't believe the Jedi Council were that stupid by handing him a silver plate.
@@Tippotipo LOL YEA
THE GRAND PUPPET MASTER!
Yoda: "for now play his game, we must."
Us watching: "you've been playing his game since the beginning!"
There should be a compilation of clips like these that are “moments in the clone wars that make you scream.”
"At the height of their power they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader."
That’s such a good point, it’s the best quote to come out of the sequel trilogy.
it was also because of a Jedi Master training Luke that the Sith were finally struck down.
It was also because of a Jedi Master that Anakin wasn't simply left on Tatooine and allowed to fall to the dark side sooner and without good emotional attachments or jedi training.
It was also a Jedi Master that kept Luke safe while he grew up on Tatooine.
I know the line sounds cool if you turn your brain off, but if you think about it for even a second, it completely falls apart. Much like the Sequel Trilogy.
Anakin needed a father figure which Qui-Gon would have been, instead he was raised by Kenobi, a brother figure. The duel of the fates was for the fate of Anakin.