The Growing Pains of 1970s Fantastic Four Comics (After Kirby and Lee)

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  • Опубліковано 19 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 84

  • @DerekRoy-c6y
    @DerekRoy-c6y 2 дні тому +26

    Those George Perez fantastic fours in the 70s made me fall in love with comic books and him as an artist!

    • @nivaldowesley666
      @nivaldowesley666 День тому +5

      same! his teen titans is amazing!

    • @DerekRoy-c6y
      @DerekRoy-c6y День тому +3

      @nivaldowesley666 Absolutely! Correct!George and Marv Wolfman! Are still being underappreciated and robbed financially! From that incredible Epic run! Just think of Teen Titans Go as an example! SMH

  • @chazkhaira6621
    @chazkhaira6621 2 дні тому +36

    The Lee and Kirby Silver Surfer graphic novel was a masterpiece. It’s a shame that it hasn’t been reprinted. I hope they do a gallery edition when they sort the legal issues out

    • @skinnyweenie8679
      @skinnyweenie8679 2 дні тому +4

      Me, too.

    • @DerekRoy-c6y
      @DerekRoy-c6y День тому +1

      @@chazkhaira6621 The John Byrne one shot silver surfer special is also a Masterpiece!

  • @CountShockula
    @CountShockula День тому +3

    The 2 part story arc by Wein/Perez with the FF and Impossible Man vs Klaw and Molecule Man were my first FF comics bought off of the spinner rack when I was 8 years old...I must of read those issues a hundred times.

  • @____2080_____
    @____2080_____ 2 дні тому +19

    Although I love the 60s comics, I really love the 70s comics

  • @markmetz9167
    @markmetz9167 2 дні тому +7

    Great essay! I started reading FF with 171 and go a lot of back issues from the 150’s up. This was my favorite era to be honest. Joe Sinnott is the true master of the art but Perez and Pollard really were my favorite artists for him to ink. 200 still feels like an epic story that I go back to over and over. Thank you!

    • @Namelbmert
      @Namelbmert День тому

      I met Joe Sinnott at a comic convention in Syracuse in the 80s, when he drew a sketch of Dr. Doom for me, a sketch of Sue Richards for my mother, and a sketch of Medusa for my sister. He signed my #200! Very gracious man.

  • @polyglot12
    @polyglot12 2 дні тому +15

    In his outline for FF#1 Lee wrote the Thing as a character who would often be antagonistic. It was an idea he always loved and one Kirby didn't.

    • @Namelbmert
      @Namelbmert День тому +4

      This is why Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were such an incredible team. Like Lennon and McCartney, one was usually able to bring out the best in the other: harmony through discord produces beautiful works.

    • @polyglot12
      @polyglot12 День тому +3

      @Namelbmert well put. That push and pull resulted in stories that reflected the best in both of them.

  • @vincentimbesi3947
    @vincentimbesi3947 17 годин тому

    I know some of the writers didn’t stay with the book long enough, but I enjoyed the 70s Fantastic Four issues! Rich Buckler, John Buscema, George Perez and John Byrne all did amazing work! 💙👍🏼💙

  • @rodneymarsden3003
    @rodneymarsden3003 2 дні тому +11

    Jack Kirby was hard to beat.

    • @DerekRoy-c6y
      @DerekRoy-c6y День тому +5

      @@rodneymarsden3003 that's why he is still the king! His costume designs alone are Legendary! A true genius! He was!

  • @RamManNo1
    @RamManNo1 2 дні тому +12

    Ben Grimm is Marvel’s greatest character hands down! Nice detailed video.

  • @robertdelisi9473
    @robertdelisi9473 2 дні тому +19

    I ❤ 70's FF

  • @sfkeepay
    @sfkeepay 9 годин тому

    Nice work! Looking forward to your 80’s FF essay. I remember the whole Byrne era well, particularly how Sue was depicted as being the most powerful member of the FF in her fight with Doom, and (much less importantly) the “Wendy’s Friends” bit.

  • @JayWoods483
    @JayWoods483 2 дні тому +4

    Wow - your video appeared surprisingly on my Home page this morning, and I am so glad it did. Almost like XMas arrived a week early. For the FF fans that first stumbled across this excellent book for the first time in the seventies, these stories were the launchpad to the wonderous stories of the sixties. Having both Big John and George Perez drawing a considerable amount in this series provided a more updated version of these characters. Having Joe Sinnott inking aided in the transition from the King's masterpieces. Thanks for your efforts on your video.

  • @uxm4life94
    @uxm4life94 2 дні тому +4

    Just discovered this channel. Added you to the small list of comic UA-camrs that actually know what they're talking about.

  • @sheets75
    @sheets75 15 годин тому

    #116 by Goodwin is one of my favorite post-Kirby FF issues, and it's far better than the preceding issue introducing the Overmind. Goodwin, one of the most underappeciated writers, did a great salvage job on the storyline. The Salem's Seven story by Len Wein and Perez is also excellent.

  • @gnomevoyeur
    @gnomevoyeur 10 годин тому

    My introduction to marvel as a kid were the mid 80s around the 25th anniversary and issue 300. Reading back issues was an expensive hobby back then but thankfully recent years have made online editions very affordable. I've recently read all 416 issues of volume 1. Looking forward to the 80s summary. As much as the Thing is my favourite, the She Hulk era was pretty sweet.

  • @georgehenry1258
    @georgehenry1258 2 дні тому +4

    Great channel!! The algorithm sent it to me this morning. I’m old enough to remember when FF was Marvel’s flagship, and Ben Grimm was Marvel’s cult character. The series always had heavyweights attached

  • @GRWelsh7
    @GRWelsh7 21 годину тому

    One of my first comic books was FF # 160 with the Thing from another dimension battling Arkon. I had no idea what I was reading, but I loved it.

  • @spaceknight793
    @spaceknight793 День тому

    I get that it's hard to follow up Lee and Kirby at their best... but for me the 70s FF was just as good. I love that era. (Only the All-New X-Men could top it, imo.) Buscema, Buckler, Perez, Pollard, Byrne... incredible art all the way through.

  • @chazkhaira6621
    @chazkhaira6621 2 дні тому +3

    Informative and great video

  • @MelissaLovesComicBooks
    @MelissaLovesComicBooks 10 годин тому

    I couldn't get into the Fantastic Four until John Byrne (and then going back and reading the Kirby issues, naturally). Everything in between can be passed.

  • @PaulRWorthington
    @PaulRWorthington 2 дні тому +3

    That was my decade of reading everything from Marvel, and FF was always a favortite.

  • @Brian_Boru
    @Brian_Boru 2 дні тому +4

    Johnny getting thrown over by Crystal for Quicksilver was brutal enough, but to see him smiling as the newlyweds depart for their honeymoon was out of character and a missed opportunity for pathos. The "happy ending" was poor writing. Johnny would've been heartbroken for some time after.

    • @jmen4ever257
      @jmen4ever257 День тому

      You beat me to saying that! At the time, i was still recovering from the end of a hopeless relationship, and when i read that issue, thought that it greatly needed another page, showing johnny weeping in his sister or bens arms from his hurt and loss. his smiling and unconcern was so phony, cause he was long shown to be bonkers over her from ff45 onwards.

  • @seanomara8641
    @seanomara8641 День тому

    I loved these books and John Romita and John Buscema.

  • @kimbelsimpson7535
    @kimbelsimpson7535 2 дні тому +1

    Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four is what got me hooked on the series in the first place.

  • @DavidJohnson-td5ic
    @DavidJohnson-td5ic День тому

    Wow, don't know how this video ended up in my feed, but I'm glad it did! I got into comics in the mid-70s, and yeah FF was a huge part of that. I came in right around the transition from Buckler to Perez, with Salem's Seven becoming a favorite baddie team for me. This was a wonderful trip to the beginnings of my affection for comics, so thank you! Liked and subscribed!

  • @odinson99m
    @odinson99m День тому +1

    George Perez would be the easy answer for best FF artist of the 70s but I'm going to go with the highly underrated Keith Pollard. Fantastic Four #185 is one of the first FF comics I ever read and it traumatized me as a kid because the heroes lost in a great cliffhanger.

  • @jimbricker4982
    @jimbricker4982 День тому +1

    George Perez ruled the FF 70s, but Keith Pollard did a fine job as well.

  • @toddkurzbard
    @toddkurzbard День тому

    I first met Marvel, and the FF in the 1970's (issue, I think, 167, the Thing AND the Hulk vs. the FF on the top of the St. Louis Arch). I fell in love with them that very first issue, and STILL consider it the best version of the FF.

  • @pbales8951
    @pbales8951 День тому +1

    I started collecting comics at the age of 9 with FF 149, so the issues between 103 and 200 are really the sweet spot in my FF collection. While the stories in this range did not introduce the kinds of characters that Lee/Kirby did (issues 36 through 52 contain an unbelievable number of characters that are important to this day), I feel the stories age better because the 1960s were such different times to what we now live in. I'm not referring to the differences in technology, but rather the tone. The 1960s FF comics were very sexist compared to those in the 1970s and beyond.

  • @russellsmith1605
    @russellsmith1605 2 дні тому

    First time watching a video from your channel. I really enjoyed this! Subscribed.

  • @micpar2
    @micpar2 День тому +1

    Love to see you cover Rom Spaceknight in three videos. As well as Richard rider Nova #1-#25, MTIO Annual #3. Powerman/IF#73, Hulk #296 MTIO #99, X-Men #187 & #188 Dire Wraiths. Avengers & FF Dire Wraiths.

  • @ryanwilliams7639
    @ryanwilliams7639 2 дні тому +1

    As someone who’s read all the FF comics up to the end of the Byrne run recently, I have to say that FF was very consistent and solid up until the Byrne run where things really changed. I call it the era where FF grew up.

  • @Kingrob30
    @Kingrob30 23 години тому

    I was a reader back then. One of my favorites wss when they fought the Molecule Man when he took over Reed Richards.

  • @jmen4ever257
    @jmen4ever257 День тому

    About march 8th or so of 1970, Lee both got the package of art for the ff from Kirby, followed by his phone call that it was his last. Buscema thought, without him, marvel would close shop. Romita thought, that at the least, Thor and the ff, would be canceled, and was shocked when lee told him he was going to do the book, after Steranko turned the job down.

  • @echovalley11
    @echovalley11 2 дні тому

    so good man, thank you

  • @alexnejako777
    @alexnejako777 2 дні тому +2

    The Perez era is where i jumped on. It was wild to see HERBIE in Ff , but he's not who you think he is!

  • @josephbarbera9220
    @josephbarbera9220 2 дні тому +2

    I actually enjoyed all the artists that lend their talent to the FF back in the 70s. My only issue was I felt Marvel drop the ball on Franklin Richards. There so much potential in developing this young character. It was as if the writers were afraid or reluctant to do anything with him. Franklin losing is powers was a major bummer. My favorite artist after Kirby was Rich Buckler but all were very good. Joe Sinnott inks was fantastic.

  • @luiszuluaga6575
    @luiszuluaga6575 12 годин тому +1

    We love The Thing best.

  • @hombre1965
    @hombre1965 День тому +1

    I was a DC kid in the ‘60’s and found most Marvels full of schlocky dialog not to my taste ( except their early ‘60’s wonderful monster comics). But the Fantastic Four was something else. It was in my top 4 of eagerly anticipated issues ( the others- Green Lantern, Adventure, and the Gold Key Tarzans) It had spell-binding stories and astonishing art. And those 72 page giants even had a new story in them! For a time, it was The World’s Greatest Comics Magazine.

  • @macsnafu
    @macsnafu День тому

    I started reading the FF with #204, and I remember not only seeing the FF cartoon with Herbie, but Byrne's explanation for why the Human Torch wasn't in the cartoon. But I was really more of a DC guy than a Marvel fan, and didn't keep with the series for too long.

  • @richardjames6947
    @richardjames6947 День тому

    I started reading comics in the first quarter of 1973 with Avengers 109. Best writing, art, storylines, etc. era ever. The Avengers/Defenders war crossover was my favorite storyline, Note that Franklin Richards and his powers were a side plot that was only interesting because of guest stars and crossovers.

  • @bOmBAsTiK
    @bOmBAsTiK 2 дні тому

    One of my earliest memories of comics collecting was an FF vs. Annihulus book from 1976. I think the cover price was either 20 or 25 cents. I picked up their title on occasion, but I remember thinking the book was kind of corny, even for a 7-year old. By '78, I was already engrossed with X-Men and how much more mature those books were compared to most other Marvel titles. But once Byrne came aboard FF by '79, I was drawn in at that point by his visuals.

  • @CentralNexusPrime
    @CentralNexusPrime 2 дні тому +2

    Born in 1960 I started reading comics as soon as I could read. I still remember when they raised the issue price from 10 cents to 12 cents - made me upset since my 25c allowance could only by 1 instead of 2 a week. Most of what I got was Superman books . I do remember my first marvel books as being Fantastic Four. This was about the time of Franklin’s birth. Strange metal home in the middle of nowhere. I remember that.

  • @1967MLP
    @1967MLP День тому

    😮good job

  • @Namelbmert
    @Namelbmert День тому +1

    The '70s FFs were, er, fantastic, as were the '60s and the '80s. The DeFalco/Ryan issues in the '90s were brilliant.
    Perez's Thing was too good to be true, further set in orange brick by Marvel Two-In-One.
    The FF cartoon, with storyboards by Jack Kirby, was pretty good for its time.
    The Fantastic Five miniseries was also as good as it gets.
    Marvel Comics dug its own grave with its choices after Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and their worthy progeny were out of the way. Fault Dismally has misrepresented their legacy.
    I'll stick to my back issues and the early films.

  • @ccsportsfan7886
    @ccsportsfan7886 День тому

    excellent just found your channel new sub here

  • @ryanwilliams7639
    @ryanwilliams7639 2 дні тому +1

    I love that you give Joe Sinnot his due. He made so many comics look great. You can look at the pencillers without Sinnot on them and see the difference. Sadly inkers don’t get their due.

  • @ensabahnur7657
    @ensabahnur7657 День тому +1

    Even I used to love Thing in the 70&80s!😂 He qas just so relatable overall & they NEVER tried making him into something he wasn't but in the 90s somebody at Marvel must've either really LOVED or HATED his Character because he's been a joke ever since, Reed became a madman thinking his intelligence makes him better then everyone else, Susan started getting hit on by heroes & villains while being ignored by Reed & Johnny went from being an annoying forever teenage minded carefree punk to the most brave & heroic person then the rest of them combined! They did great with Franklin in the 90& early 2000s now they're acting like they don't know what to do with him & Valeria SUCKS as much as her Father does! NOBODY cares about her!😂💯📠

  • @russworks2882
    @russworks2882 2 дні тому

    My understanding is that Kirby finished that Janus/Nega-Man story, but that Stan either didn't like it or held it back to deploy later, with changes in the story. I think it took less time for Jack to pencil 20 pages than to decide not to; often he'd pencil more than he needed and take unused segments and insert them in other comics.
    FF 108 was released the same month as Forever People # 1 and New Gods # 1, which may have been deliberate, from what I've read, though I'm willing to be corrected on this. That same month, December 1970, Marvel released multiple comics with Kirby reprints, including the double-sized _Special Marvel Edition_ with Thor and _Fear_ with monster reprints. Also on sale that month, more recycled Kirby in _Creatures on the Loose_ , _Where Monsters Dwell_ , _Where Creatures Roam_ and a _SHIELD_ giant. Marvel's response to Kirby's new concepts at DC was to flood the market with more Kirby at Marvel.

    • @jmen4ever257
      @jmen4ever257 День тому +1

      By shelfing what would have been ff 102, Lee solved two problems. The first, using the continued subby story, to hopefully getting the majority of the readership to still buy, even if by Romita. The second, to have a new mostly Kirby book on the stands the month new gods and forever people came out

    • @russworks2882
      @russworks2882 День тому

      @@jmen4ever257 Didn't even consider that, but it's a great observation. Thanks.

  • @vellshell007
    @vellshell007 2 години тому

    The Thing will always be my favorite, I hated that everybody in Marvel got written to be stronger except for him (except for the spikey era).

  • @3dartistguy
    @3dartistguy День тому

    I think that GIant size issue no 4 was very first exposure to the Fantastic Four as well the orginal X-men which is reprinted in that issue.

  • @Supremor-tj9dv
    @Supremor-tj9dv 2 дні тому +1

    I have to admit by the late 70s I really didn’t miss Kirby leaving Marvel. I think he was pretty much spent. His art, while relatively great in the 60s, was by the late 70s looking rather quaint and cartoonish. Compared to Perez or Byrne or Pollard, it looks antiquated. Kirby was one of the giants no doubt but by 1978 he was done. I liked the Frightful Four stories from the 70’s.

  • @cecilDisharoon
    @cecilDisharoon 2 дні тому +1

    I want to answer your viewer question, but you got the highlights. I recommend the first 7 issues of MTIO for Ben's fans, though he is too mean in the opening scene of #1. His scenes with the character who became Aquarian- Wundarr- are different for him, very good.

  • @evanlindsey1100
    @evanlindsey1100 День тому

    The Thing/Hulk team up was a fun story that led to the Thing losing his powers during a fight on the St Louis Gateway Arch. This eventually led to the creation of the Thing suit.

    • @toddkurzbard
      @toddkurzbard День тому

      That's the one ((( I ))) started Marvel with. I especially enjoyed the friendly "argument" of the writers\editors as Sue forms an invisible "land bridge" to get from the lake to solid ground. That goofy exchange is what brought me into the FF\Marvel. If the creators could engage in good-natured "ribbing" in the middle of the action, that told me the people in charge were a fun-loving group of guys.

  • @RingsideRebel785
    @RingsideRebel785 2 дні тому

    Sometimes I can't decide if I like John Buscema's or Kirby's work better.
    Edit: Also, I LOVED Ron Wilson on Two-In-One.

  • @markwelch3115
    @markwelch3115 День тому

    I have every issue of the Fantastic Four published between 1970-1979, and they're a bit of a mixed bag. Roy Thomas wrote around 50 issues of the FF during the 70s, and they're often too goofy for their own good, filled with stereotypical Silver Age dialogue and concepts. What I don't understand is how Roy could be so dramatic on titles like The Incredible Hulk, Submariner, and Doctor Strange, but never took things seriously on FF. So there's plenty of wisecracks and facetious captions during his FF run, and it's a bit too much even for a Bronze Age comic book.
    Then Len Wein comes in after Roy, and what a difference! Grant Morrison has said on numerous occassions that Len Wein is his favorite comic book writer, and it's not hard to see why. His writing is so more mature than someone like a Roy Thomas or Marv Wolfman, and every issue of his FF is an instant classic. Len's issues also reflect the more off-beat, fantastical nature of some of the FF's classic stories, as a quest for their kidnapped son and nanny lead them to New Salem, an eerie, isolated village in the mountains...all wrapped up with one of Wein's trademark ironic endings. I can honestly say I have never read a Len Wein comic that wasn't nothing short of genius.

  • @jeffthekillercriticremixer5968
    @jeffthekillercriticremixer5968 18 годин тому

    I thought you would probably mention the dump Sue campaign that happened in the 70s. Also they got a power upgrade in the 70s somehow people complained about them taking so many beatings so they flew through another cosmic storm or something I can't remember the story but all of them got a power boost.

  • @benjaminmontag6540
    @benjaminmontag6540 День тому

    The seventies was when Romita and Buscema put Marvel characters on model, giving them a look that the company had to emulate (Kirby and Ditko relied upon hairstyle only to differentiate characters). This lasted until Ron Frenz dumped the Romita Peter Parker look and Byrne turned Reed Richards into Professor Kelp. In that era, artists found ways to stylize the Thing. Buscema made the rocks small and gave him a bottom lip. Perez had him look like a posable action figure. Buckler, after breaking free of Buscema, rendered the Thing as a living broken sidewalk charging at the reader.

  • @Ontonaut
    @Ontonaut День тому

    9:54 I bought that issue when it came out. I hated the Herbie the robot character in the tv show, but thought the explanation in the book was pretty funny

  • @lunarmodule6419
    @lunarmodule6419 День тому

    Interesting thx

  • @MichaelKurse
    @MichaelKurse День тому

    I first bought a Giant Sized FF in the 70's.I thought Medusa was a founding member.🤔😆😆😆

  • @abraxis20
    @abraxis20 День тому

    Pretty sure Mephisto wasn't in # 157 of FF. That was from Silver Surfer's own comic.

  • @IsiahBradley
    @IsiahBradley День тому

    🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩

  • @ardathbey4150
    @ardathbey4150 День тому

    You should of mentioned the "crappy" Steranko cover... but other than that you have done a great job here... thank you.

  • @GizmoFromPizmo
    @GizmoFromPizmo День тому

    I must have gotten out of the Fantastic Four by the 1970s. My subscription ran out and I just didn't renew. I stayed with Spider-Man a lot longer but that eventually wore off too. It sucks growing up.
    Fantastic Four got too stupid. I mean, I could take the Inhumans. Medusa, with her hair was pretty cool and I liked the romance between Johnny and Crystal but that slobbering dog was just too much.
    Also, Galactus was just too big. I mean a thing that eats planets? What the ever-lovin' eff? And Silver Surfer was a stupid character to base a whole line of comics on. These stories were too over-the-top for me and that's what made me lose interest.

  • @markwrede8878
    @markwrede8878 2 дні тому +2

    The inability to find a suitable plot line for lame characters.

  • @robmarconi6758
    @robmarconi6758 День тому

    I'm sorry but I can't stand Kirby. All those bucktoothed, blocky fingered monstrosities... ugh

  • @rickytoddbotelho9555
    @rickytoddbotelho9555 День тому

    After Kennedy's hair made it's cameo,it went on to battle the absorbing man,entertain a small stint in the frightful four. Usurp the silver surfer's board , when it attained the power cosmic and became a herald of Galactus. Traveling the limitless spaceways to find it's true love,a rock drifting aimlessly through the ancient abyss, that was floating near another rock. I wanna rock!😂❤🪨

    • @witsendpod
      @witsendpod  22 години тому

      Ah, the lost Official Marvel Handbook entry.

  • @PuncherOfAbs
    @PuncherOfAbs День тому

    No offense to fans
    I almost found George Perez‘s artwork blah

  • @uxm4life94
    @uxm4life94 2 дні тому

    Just discovered this channel. Added you to the small list of comic UA-camrs that actually know what they're talking about.