It's true the Phillips head was originally designed to cam out in order to prevent overtightening. The square drive, or Robertson head, strips out easily because it is most often used with stainless steel screws. That's a soft metal which doesn't hold up well in situation requiring a lot of torque. Those of us in construction quickly soured on stainless square drive because the screws would strip out during critical moments installing decking or porche flooring. Manufacturers took note, and today the stainless square drive screws have been replaced by torx or start drive heads. The square drive head was also used in drywall style trim screws, and it would hold up better in that application. Still, most trim screws for sale today have also switched to the torx or star drive.
@@enduringcharmyou're gonna need to put down the pipe. Square screws keep their integrity for longer. I personally only use zinc wood screws or machine screws, but they are simply better. You can use Robertsons on more of an angle and you have a better surface to grip when it starts stripping. I don't know what to say. I've stripped way less Robertsons per capita, maybe Robertsons are just a Canadian right of passage
@timmerwerk5393 Possibly the type of work you are doing influences your opinion. In my case I'm doing remodeling, so I'm typically putting screws into existing, older joists, studs and rafters. As everybody knows, older doug fir or even PT pine becomes harder and more ornery as it ages. Putting stainless steel trim screws through new porch decking into old 2x joists is an example where I would frequently find square head screws stripping out when they hit a dense section of 2x or a knot. Driven with an impact driver, the square head strips more easily than with a torx head. I have had several of these jobs where I had a mix of square and torx heads on the same job, too. Of course the torx can also strip out, but they were superior to the square drive. The same goes for backerboard screws on tiling jobs. The square heads would easily strip out when being impact driven, and I came to dread that part of the job. Torx style backerboard screws simply do not have that problem. Again, I have had jobs where I was using both styles side by side due to availability issues, and the torx screws are noticeably superior.
The square drive heads easily strip out when used in stainless steel, which is what most of the construction-related screws use for both trim screws and standard decking style screws. Stainless is just very soft. Those have mostly been replaced with torx style heads now for the brands sold at most retailers. The square or Robertson drive was also used for awhile for cement backerboard screws, but those have also been replaced by the torx head. Part of the problem is that the driver itself would quickly wear down with only four points of contact, and then the loose driver would start to strip out the screw heads.
I had to remove a bunch of torx screws from a deck that had only been there for a year and it was a nightmare. On 70% of them cammed out stripping the screw head, and another 20% of them broke in half rather than come up. I was using the correct size bits and went through several of them. They go in easy, but getting torx screws out is a different story.
Were the screws stainless steel? Stainless is very soft metal and it really doesn't matter what head is on them, when they need to be removed after a long period they will be easy to strip out. Deck lumber is generally pressure treated pine, and that will shrink and create significant stresses on the fasteners in only a matter of weeks in the sun. There's a reason builders rush to get the decking down as quickly as possible!
I feel like I may need some more background information to answer your question. Machine screws are different from wood or construction screws because the threads are finer and regular, meant for use with nuts or female threaded assemblies. Some machine screws are partially threaded, leaving the upper shank smooth. There are countless types of machine screws, though, so the names vary according to head type, screw purpose, metal type and more.
Canadian here. I'd like to apologize to humanity for the Robertson (square) drive. My company goes out of their way to import Philips screws for crate building. The number one reason that Canadians hate Philips screws is that we don't know how to match the driver size to the screw. A properly matched setup will hold a screw all day long, and they are much faster to install.
Ha! Well, you are forgiven. Canada has produced the band Rush and lots of maple syrup, so that surely makes up for this minor infraction against humanity.
In the US over the last couple of years the square drive heads have gradually been replaced by star drive. Even the trim screw heads are star drive now.
He's obviously neglecting square head 'cause it's Canadian lol.
Crazy Canadians with their maples and the greatest rock trio to ever play...
Robertson strip and cam out? 😂 You're clearly doing something wrong. You're describing Phillips.
It's true the Phillips head was originally designed to cam out in order to prevent overtightening. The square drive, or Robertson head, strips out easily because it is most often used with stainless steel screws. That's a soft metal which doesn't hold up well in situation requiring a lot of torque. Those of us in construction quickly soured on stainless square drive because the screws would strip out during critical moments installing decking or porche flooring. Manufacturers took note, and today the stainless square drive screws have been replaced by torx or start drive heads. The square drive head was also used in drywall style trim screws, and it would hold up better in that application. Still, most trim screws for sale today have also switched to the torx or star drive.
@@enduringcharmyou're gonna need to put down the pipe. Square screws keep their integrity for longer. I personally only use zinc wood screws or machine screws, but they are simply better. You can use Robertsons on more of an angle and you have a better surface to grip when it starts stripping. I don't know what to say. I've stripped way less Robertsons per capita, maybe Robertsons are just a Canadian right of passage
@timmerwerk5393 Possibly the type of work you are doing influences your opinion. In my case I'm doing remodeling, so I'm typically putting screws into existing, older joists, studs and rafters. As everybody knows, older doug fir or even PT pine becomes harder and more ornery as it ages. Putting stainless steel trim screws through new porch decking into old 2x joists is an example where I would frequently find square head screws stripping out when they hit a dense section of 2x or a knot. Driven with an impact driver, the square head strips more easily than with a torx head. I have had several of these jobs where I had a mix of square and torx heads on the same job, too. Of course the torx can also strip out, but they were superior to the square drive. The same goes for backerboard screws on tiling jobs. The square heads would easily strip out when being impact driven, and I came to dread that part of the job. Torx style backerboard screws simply do not have that problem. Again, I have had jobs where I was using both styles side by side due to availability issues, and the torx screws are noticeably superior.
There are some bits you can buy with ball end points on each point of the torx star meaning you can drive at an angle. Very useful for tight spots
I have never seen a robertson strip out.
The square drive heads easily strip out when used in stainless steel, which is what most of the construction-related screws use for both trim screws and standard decking style screws. Stainless is just very soft. Those have mostly been replaced with torx style heads now for the brands sold at most retailers. The square or Robertson drive was also used for awhile for cement backerboard screws, but those have also been replaced by the torx head. Part of the problem is that the driver itself would quickly wear down with only four points of contact, and then the loose driver would start to strip out the screw heads.
I’m a park ranger in Florida. Boardwalk maintenance is always made easier with torx screws. I dread having to remove rusty robertsons.
I had to remove a bunch of torx screws from a deck that had only been there for a year and it was a nightmare. On 70% of them cammed out stripping the screw head, and another 20% of them broke in half rather than come up. I was using the correct size bits and went through several of them. They go in easy, but getting torx screws out is a different story.
Were the screws stainless steel? Stainless is very soft metal and it really doesn't matter what head is on them, when they need to be removed after a long period they will be easy to strip out. Deck lumber is generally pressure treated pine, and that will shrink and create significant stresses on the fasteners in only a matter of weeks in the sun. There's a reason builders rush to get the decking down as quickly as possible!
Robertson screw is the name of the square...
Yes, but in the US that name never caught on. Here it's just known as a square drive.
Great video and explantation. Thank you
You forgot Pozi
There are many other head types, actually, but the three here are the common ones used for most construction screws.
What is the same for machine screws that only have 1/2 of the body with threads as depicted in this video?
I feel like I may need some more background information to answer your question. Machine screws are different from wood or construction screws because the threads are finer and regular, meant for use with nuts or female threaded assemblies. Some machine screws are partially threaded, leaving the upper shank smooth. There are countless types of machine screws, though, so the names vary according to head type, screw purpose, metal type and more.
Canadian here. I'd like to apologize to humanity for the Robertson (square) drive. My company goes out of their way to import Philips screws for crate building. The number one reason that Canadians hate Philips screws is that we don't know how to match the driver size to the screw. A properly matched setup will hold a screw all day long, and they are much faster to install.
Ha! Well, you are forgiven. Canada has produced the band Rush and lots of maple syrup, so that surely makes up for this minor infraction against humanity.
Square only exists in Canada
In the US over the last couple of years the square drive heads have gradually been replaced by star drive. Even the trim screw heads are star drive now.