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@@briantracy1324 I'm close to finally getting my hands on a fine example of my dream multi-channel amp, a Sunfire Audio Cinema Grand Signature II. 425Wx5@8ohms. The Schitt unit pushing Optical from TV, USB from Streamer+NAS, and RCA split input from Phono Preamp & OPPO Player might prove to be simply Synful. Time for speaker upgrades!
While I was watching to the video, I was thinking in possibilities. It’s great for using with active speakers or for combine active speakers and amp + passive ones. It’s also useful for a surround desktop system, just for enjoy music and videos or even for gaming. I am nit sure if it could get a double stereo using the front and surround, but if it does it, it could be possible also to use with two amps or an amb and active speakers or just use it for doing comparations. The crossfeed habilitó for the headphones is also a good feature.
Before watching this video, I recommend reading the FAQ on this product on the Schiit site first. That's what I did (by accident!) and I therefore didn't have the same problem that other viewers did. I do wish Randi went into more detail about how the Presence and Width knobs impacted things....he said he could talk forever about it, and I'd like to see a longer video where he just nerds out on testing the settings and different modes.
HDMI, while needed for Atmos, has become a joke. Did you know that the geniuses that make up the HDMI specs have said HDMI 2.0 no longer exists and everything is HDMI 2.1 now? Even HDMI 1.4 can be called 2.1 now. All 2.1 specs are now optional and it's up to the manufacturer to list what 2.1 "features" it actually supports. A good example would be the Homeatics android streaming box. It claims it's HDMI 2.1 but it's 20b, which doesn't exist anymore. Also, outside 8K, 2.1 isn't needed for video, only gaming consoles. The only reason TV manufacturers are using the term 2.0 is it would cause way too much confusion and they would get way too many returns. Now, while you and me might look at all the features imagine a mother trying to buy their kid a gaming monitor then buying one that claims 2.1, then does zero 2.1 "features". Also, no rerunning long HDMI runs when the spec changes which is a huge headache. Especially if you are running cables though walls or through the ceiling/crawlspace. Yes, everything back to HDMI 1.4 supports all audio formats but if you're a gamer you need 2.1 with most, if not all the optional features for things like VRR.
I’m one of those guys happy to post an opinionated comment before watching the entire video, so maybe this is covered, but on of the most useful features of HDMI for me is the CEC control of multiple components through the eARC connection. Is that something that USB C can presently support, and how long before itself is upgraded?
HDMI is both a complete mess and ubiquitous. It reminds me of what happened with USB 3 and the renaming of its zillion revisions. Needing a reference defeats the original purpose of these standards.
The reason there's no vocals in the surround channels is because the surround outputs are based on the difference between the Left and Right channels (L-R and R-L). Vocals are usually placed at the center of the soundstage, thus vocals are coming out 'equally' from both the L and R channels. If the surround is derived from L-R and R-L, then center channel info will be subtracted out.
@@hippo319 Wiring up a "difference channel" speaker definitely counts as an older technology: Take a stereo system, wire a third speaker to the positive (or negative) contacts of both the left and right speaker outputs. Maybe put a potentiometer inline, so you can fiddle with the third speaker's volume. Hang speaker above your couch. Play any sort of stereo content. Voila! An ambiance channel! I did it in the 80's. It'll have a bunch of reverb, some instruments, but hardly any vocals. And yes, if you played some of that new-fangled Dolby matrix-surround content through such a system, it will "decode" that as well. Sort of. But all you really need is vanilla 2-channel content.
As a long-time fan and subscriber of the channel, I have to say that this is the first video from Randy that I believe really needed another take. Specifically, he has three opportunities near the beginning to say, "Here's exactly what this thing *is*," and all three times he announces that he's about to do that, and then reverts to the usual segments in his review videos, such as "on the front." It gradually emerged why this piece is special and what it does and doesn't do, but the video was needlessly frustrating to watch. An "un-amplified home theater control center" takes, what, four or five seconds to say?
Randy needs to script his videos. When he wings it he has a habit of either getting repetitive or flat out missing key sections of whatever it is he's talking about.
@@TheRealPotoroo I love the guy but I'm also relieved that I'm not the only one who noticed that. There's a review of his that I value very highly and have watched many times -- I think it might be the Aiyima T9 -- in which he says, "I like it much better this way" or some-such, and it's not at all obvious what he's referring to.
I'd give him a break re scripting. I think his lack thereof makes it seem more like a conversation between "friends" rather than a professional presentation... not that he's not *professional* :)
I'm strictly into two channel, but I have numerous amps and eight pair of speakers. This is all I need to experiment with multi channel. I ordered one!!
you will need a player that decodes SACD`s, 5.1multi channel, blu ray audio. Then from the player usb to the syn in usb, then rca to amps. Some Sony blu ray not all will work (cheap at goodwill) I suggest Pink Floyd Alan Parson mix in surround of dark side of the moon ! The quality of HIFI sound ! its Awesome.
@@jeffmarshall6752 This thing is not really relevant to multi channel sacds because it takes a stereo only input and creates a pseudo surround system from that.
yup, this is a matrix thing like the old dolby stereo in film prints, or its competitor ultrastereo: yes the center channel is deduced by being in phase and in the centre, then extracted, but then so is the surround sound: it's basically everything that was encoded 180 degrees _out_ of phase. Sounds great for TV and basic movies for a wide variety of people, and the direct manual control of the centre channel level (instead of diving into a menu) is GREAT! But the surround signal is actually mono, being just the extracted out-of phase stuff. Like in the original film theatre setup, it's actually 4.1, not 5.1. All the surrounds have the same thing in them.
Hey Randy, love your content, but as someone who wasn't familiar with the Syn before watching this video, I found it unusually difficult to follow. You first go over the dials without much of an introduction about this (somewhat unusual) device. You then switch to the remote control, before going back to the main unit for the inputs/outputs, and it isn't until the "final thoughts" section that you give a high-level explanation of what this device is and does. I kinda struggled to make sense of everything to be honest, and believe it would have been much easier to follow in pretty much the reverse order: high-level introduction, inputs/outputs, main unit controls, remote control, and then final thoughts. Kind of a "top-down" approach so to speak. Not a huge deal, this was still very informative, just food for thought for your future videos I guess? Anyway, thanks for the review! (edit: typos)
maybe to you, but this is literally exactly the thing i was looking for for my setup. i’ve been wanting to get a surround sound setup using my studio monitors instead of actual surround sound speakers and the syn has the rca outs i need
The ability to switch from 2 channel music listening to multi channel video watching without having to physically change out my vintage gear is brilliant. This makes so much sense for us that mostly listen to music but occasionally want to watch a movie. Just the addition of the center channel and sub feature sold me on this.
Bit of an audio noob but does this mean I can attach this to my stereo amp and then attach some surround speakers to it without investing in a separate multi-channel amp?
@@onibon1990 you'll be able to use your existing stereo amp for your main speakers. You will need to add additional amps for you center, surround and sub channels.
@@onibon1990 It means you can replace your stereo amp but need powered, active or a power amp to passive speakers as it passes line level output to 6 channels. e.g. the front speakers could be run from your existing amp connected to an aux or tape input with rears, centre and sub being active speakers.
I want one! I was so afraid this was some kind of April Fool gig when I first saw it the other day, lol. I have a long history of loving immersive sound formats, multi-channel music, and oddball electronics. Bob Carver's C-9 Sonic Holography unit is still a treat in 2023. I still have my first SACD/DVD-Audio player which was an Onkyo CS-V720 DVD mini shelf system. Eventually purchased an OPPO player for all my disc formats before they went out of production. These days the OPPO feeds preamp outputs direct to 5.1 channels of amplifiers for a very simple setup. So the idea of the Syn is right up my alley. In fact, my first true surround system came by using an oddball add-on component, the Yamaha DSP-E492 to a Carver stereo setup. I think the Syn was made for me!
Great video, the Syn makes so much sense for Audiophiles, who like to watch Netflix series too in good quality, without the constantly changing surround formats. Just ordered one to use this as a pre-amp for the Vidar and will indeed use a Ayima A07 for the center as a FINALLY 3.0 front system. THANKS RANDY
Why? The surround sound that comes from this won't even come close to actual surround sound. I thought audiophiles are about playing back what was recorded? This is playing back something that has nothing at all to do with what was recorded. Constantly changing surround formats?! I'm currently using an AVR that only does AC3 and DTS... formats that have been obsolete for a decade now? It still works. And I get actual surround sound. And if the device supported Dolby Atmos, what else is there supposed to come? Atmos was introduced 2014 and is the standard until now, and will probably remain so for the foreseable future. And even when something better should come around, you'll be able to use it.
I don’t quite understand - can this high pass the main channels to do bass management? That would surely be the most important feature for the application, otherwise I think it’s way too niche. For movie watching it’s very silly to try and extract the center channel from a downmixed stereo signal, when the multichannel output is clean. If anything I would say a much more interesting application is the reverse one: make a small signal processor that receives atmos etc, and downmixes to stereo with center channel boost capability and bass management. That would actually be practical for the masses.
This is almost exactly what I want. It just needs to also have at least Class D amp built in to power the main, center and rears. The sub is fine as a pre-amp output because it's easy to find fairly decent powered subs on the cheap. This is something I would love to have on my computer desk setup with a 3.1 configuration (front main, center and sub). Adding in an additional amplifier per channel makes it a no-go for the somewhat budget minded. I daily drive an SMSL SA300 DAC/Amp with a set of Bic America DV62si bookshelves and F12 subwoofer. It's not perfect, but it's excellent for what it is. The only thing I REALLY want that it doesn't have is a dedicated center channel. Is there anything on the market that is both a DAC and an amplifier, has multiple analog and digital inputs, and rocks more than 2.1 channels that isn't either a GIANT receiver or is outrageously expensive?
This had a Dolby Atmos processor, at least one HDMI input, and some height outputs, it really would be disruptive. As it is, I don't know what would do with it or who this is for.
Really niche market. When Marantz makes a $600 5.2 channel AVR with HDMI and the amplification built-in plus pre-outs for stereo purists, this is a very small set of people who care about TV sound quality a bit and have the knowledge to know how to set this up (and even be aware of Schiit), but who don't care about TV sound quality enough to get a proper AVR or pre-processor. I was really excited for the first 5 minutes though while I thought this might have HDMI.
I don't know about disruptive, but what you describe is an AV preamp. Lots of them out there. This is more of a multi-channel preamp with equalization. Not true surround, but a good facsimile. Like he said, it's probably more for people that want to move beyond a soundbar, but don't want to mess with a receiver.
@@geraldmcmullon2465 That's a good point about active speakers. This would be ideal for those, as it would tidy everything up and save you from having to scrounge up 2 or 3 separate amps. It's best use would probably be as a PC or console sound system, IMO.
@@boneseyyl1060 To avoid the overused trope "disruptive", An Atmos AV pre/processor nearly 1/3 the cost of the current lowest price alternative would change things up for a lot of people. Especially if the managed to keep it remarkably simple
THIS!!!! its a "surround sound processor"....yea, from 1993 at best! Without HDMI, optical ain't gonna decode good bitrates. this ain't hi-fi. it's just a flop, an AIWA boombox at best.
I stumbled upon the Syn on their website the other day and I was fascinated but kinda baffled by it. Thanks for explaining it. It's a little weird to need separate amps, but I guess the modular route has its advantages too. I guess powered monitors is the other option, which could be more practical for gamers too.
You could use one 5.1 amp, multiple amps aren't required, it's just an option. A lot of high end systems use separate amps but that's more about more power and channels than anything else. If you had 11+ channels multiple amps are usually needed. Like 7 speakers, 4 ceiling speakers. Subs obviously have their own amps so the sub output would go directly into the sub input. Most 11+ channel home theater dedicated amps cost 15K+. Dennis receiver that supports this many channels is 3K+ but that's a receiver and amp combo and supports decoding of all audio formats. The only downside to this is no decoding of things like Dolby digital and DTS IMO. It uses older matrix software that has been used in receivers for years to turn a 2 channel signal into a 5.1 like audio output signal like you would get with Dolby Digital.
@@JoshFisher567 is there an affordable 5.1 amp out there that has separate analog inputs for all the channels? All the ones that I've seen would replace this rather than work with it.
@@illyth63 well you can use two stereo power amps, or four monoblocks or a four channel amplifier which would be the cheapest solution. You don't need an amp for the subwoofer, just the lfe out from the schiit syn itself, nobody uses passive subwoofers today anyways. Audiophonics sells the hpa-q250nc for 1090.00€ with four channels it would be a good match for the syn
This is so cool. What's missing to me is a 3-channel Rekkr or GHorn. I feel like they could slowly expand their surround section. Maybe their next iteration can have an optional expansion for a 3rd channel?
Nope, I almost thought I had a replacement but looks like I'm keeping the Creative Soundblaster X7 for longer! Bass management, high and low pass filters, multiple configurations, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.1, Dolby digital on optical in, active amp for the front two channels as well as pre outs for all channels. Bluetooth aptx, usb, line in, headphone out, mic in, op amp swapping.. this thing is a beast in its own right and nothing seems to overtake it with what it can do. This schitt box seems to be similar to a Creative Soundblaster X4 with no decoding, and that thing does have proper bass management
When I moved from another country, my Marantz SR7015 must have been dropped by the shipping company, because it will not work with my new TV. After seeing this video, I ordered the Schiit Syn as a stop gap measure while waiting to search for an authorised Marantz repair centre. Looking forward to receiving this product and being able to hear my loudspeakers again.
Thanks for the head's up about the Syn Randy. Very Interesting: I had the idea to try a external surround processor with my two channel rig for ambiance extraction on my live CDs. I tried this a few weeks ago using an old Audiosource Model 3 processor and the surround effect wasn't very good. Given the unit was likely ~ 30 years old or so who knows if it worked properly. I've heard ambiance extraction done right on a Theta Casablanca prepro years ago and the effect was amazing on live content from any source (including live FM radio concert broadcasts). It was like being at the live event sonically. I trust Schiit a lot more than Audiosource for high fidelity, so I'm definitely going to give the Syn a try.
I just got the Syn and cobbled together a Frankenstein system of powered speakers and I love this thing. I just put on a movie/show, twist a couple knobs, and eventually it gets to a sweet spot. I’m watching The Thing right now and the kennel scene sounded great. When they’re in the hallway the sound of the dogs barking was in the surrounds while the dialogue was nice and centered. It just… works man idk. I’ll always be stereo for ‘serious’ listening, but music on this thing is just plain fun too. super immersive. It’s definitely niche, but if this thing ‘speaks to you’ in any way I say go for it. I’m running a living room/listening room with a PS5, record player, and a HTPC, so the inputs were perfect for me. Do you have some extra speakers? Here’s a way you can still use them. Who cares if they match, you’re gonna EQ em on the Syn anyways. Just enjoy yourself.
A real cheap way to get surround sound without spending any money is to connect a second pair of speakers to the B speakers + L and + R. Discovered it reading an old Radio Electronics magazine.
Keep in mind, folks, that separate theater processors tend to be crazy expensive (if anyone knows of a cheap one let me know). So, despite the lack of Atmos, etc, a key selling point here is you at get a device at least lets you do some sort of ersatz surround system with separates for $399.
Cool product. I've been lamenting for years that there was not a small form factor, 3-5 channel receiver/pre-pro. I ended up ditching my 3.0 living room setup with an old receiver for a pair of The Fives about 2 years ago. While I enjoy them, I had always wondered about a way to add a center channel speaker I have laying around, and this could be it.
Let's see... It costs $400 and, with exception of having a built-in DAC and headphone amp, it's nowhere near as versatile as the old Yamaha DSP-1/DSR-100Pro setup from the mid-1980s, which at least has actual Dolby (Pro-Logic, but I digress) and 6.1/7.1 capability. Hard pass!
As this is to work as a hometheater replacement, i would ditch the headphone out and the usb input and instead have binding posts for speaker outs. (speaker(s) amplifier) Much more usable in my opinion. Like if this and the aiyima a09 had a baby. I would buy one. :)
This sounds fantastic going back to simplicity. I have a original circle surround decoder that I’m using with my Bryston 4bsst and 9bsst amps and bryston preamp. I paid $1000 for it back in the late 90’s , you set it and forget it, for movies there is 30 millisecond delay, no delay for music. J Gordon Holt absolutely loved it on music. I checked out surround sound preamps at the time for upwards 3 & 4 thousand dollars that would become out dated every 6 months. I’m happy as can be with it . Does the trick for me , simple.
This is such a great thing for Jason and co. to do! This is based on old tried and true "Ambient Extraction" technology like the old Hafler method... Plus some special Schiit analog voodoo. Which anyone can experience by simply...to show you something most people are unaware of. If you connect the two positive or red speaker wires to two speakers and THEN simply bridge the negative BETWEEN those two speakers... What you'll hear is ALL the out of phase information in the recording...usually all the ambient or reverberation in the stereo recording! Instant surround if you have your regular two front mains..(speaker A) and then connect two smaller speakers in afore mentioned method (as "surrounds") as.. (speaker B) The main thing I think they've done is to do this in an analog "matrix" way to properly protected the amp from impedance swings with the kind of set up I've just described. I will be saving up to get one of these and they would absolutely work great with powered speakers as well (even easier) because you don't have to have additional amps for the set up of surrounds and center. And the sub is icing on the cake! Once again Jason and Schiit have created a GREAT product that has perfected something that used to be an arcane nerdy simplistic way of getting "Surround Sound" BRAVO!!
@@kadajawi6567 Actually many would think all the ..."digital, Dolby, DTS stuff..(I really like DTS mixes), are the artificial stuff and "true" ambient reproduction is this method... but it can change wildly based on how the original material was recorded.
@Cheap-audioman...Hi, been a fan and subscribed years ago! Have left other comments , first time reply. My name is Dave Smith and I've left in comment before that if you ever come out to LA I could arrange a tour of one of America's greatest recording Studios... East West Studios once Western Recorders where Pet Sounds was recorded as well as many, many others. This was one of the studios where the Wrecking Crew recorded SO many hits. My sister Candace Sewart manages the place and is very well known in music industry circles. Metallica as even recorded there a few years back.
Randy, I can help explain the previous technology for you: The original machine has a base-plate of prefabulated aluminite, surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two main spurving bearings were in a direct line with the pentametric fan. The latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzlevanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar waneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus-o-delta type placed in panendermic semi-bovoid slots in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible tremie pipe to the differential girdlespring on the "up" end of the grammeters. Hope this helps.
A similar technology came out in the early 70s , called quadraphonic sound. There were phonograph records with 4 channel soundtracks providing amazing surround sound. Unfortunately it didn't become popular. I had a decoder for those recordings that could also take a standard 2 channel recording from a record or cd, and derive the reverb, echoes and crowd noise from the sides and rear of the concert hall, placing you very realistically in the center of the concert hall! Great technology from the pre-digital era!
For those who don't understand. This is a stereo to multi-channel processor. It will never have true surround sound. Dolby prologic had a standard way of "encoding" the surround channels onto the 2 stereo channels, then the prologic decoder tried to separate them without crosstalk - not a very good solution. This thing doesn't even do that.
I have a room where surround speakers aren't really possible. I'd be curious how this thing sounds with everything front-presence whether that be 3 channel (LCR) or 5 channel with the LCR + 2 Surrounds right up front? I suspect if this is to convert 2-channel into surround sound...most people that currently have a 2 channel setup are like that for similar reasons (an entire theater setup isn't feasible whether it be vintage equipment or the room).
Holy schiit seriously, this looks like so much fun, there goes another argument with the wife as to why I’m spending another $400 tho, oh well thanks Randy!
Car stereo amp baby! I have a few laying around, an inexpensive AC/DC power converter/supply, some speaker cable, maybe a couple of line out converters... I could easily add this into my two channel rig. Already have the speakers, cables and amps... I think this is damn cool! ;-)
Basically, Hafler circuit tweaked. I have a McCormack MAP-1 (made by Conrad Johnson) that does the same thing. Bought it back in the nineties. HDMI ARC input would be nice but would add costs and extra processing.
Hey Randy! I don’t really need one of these but I’m going to get one anyway! We have a 65” that has an optical out. Besides the Syn will look great sitting next to the Modius I just bought!
Eh im sure it sounds good but I'll stick with my Onkyo and Yamaha HT receiver's for all my video needs and my analog separates for my music. I used to love buying new tech and hooking everything up but it seems that tech has come to a flatting out stage and nothing is really coming to the table that i cant live without. Great video BTW.
This is good timing. Trying to reduce the number of wires on my floor (and being able to use/place all the new small amplifiers i've been buying lately. Looking at you, CAM-Fam), i'm using pre-outs to send signal wirelessly to different amplifiers.
Your link to the syn goes to the rekr. At first glance I thought this was 149. Which I thought well priced, but at 400? Nope. At around that price I can but a second hand surround pre, those things don't cost anything if they don't have HDMI. Saw a proceed for just 100 more.
Reminds me of the awesome Dynamo QD1 from around 1999 that did matrix decoding. It could sound amazing with acoustic and live music recordings. As I remember it, J&R Music World closed them out for 19.95. I vastly preferred it to most of the over processed early Dolby Digital modes for music. McCormack included similar functionality in their early 2000's MAP-! Multichannel Preamplifier, called ARM (Ambiance Recovery Mode). That could also sound excellent with music.
That thing is sick. I'd buy one if I could. I have one rig, bedroom desktop gaming and movies. I use my zen dac as my two channel pre. It might be pointless to most but I see a huge spot in the market for it.
Schiit could have redeemed this product if they had simply provided a USB receiver chip with 5.1 PCM capability. The ES9118 is already 5.1 capable, but it requires all channels to be on S/PDIF and the C-Media chip Schiit is using, while 6 channel capable, only provides 2 channel S/PDIF internally. If they had only allowed 5.1 PCM input then a PC could do the surround decoding and support DirectSound3D so this would be ideal for gaming. As it is, matrix surround is less than useless for gaming because it creates unreal phantom surround channels -- it may sound like someone is behind you in multiplayer but it's not real.
I’m completely puzzled, why not be honest, why the constant praise, let’s be realistic here, this is pretty pointless, if you wanted these features you could just get a decent AVR, to use this you are going to need one anyways! Or an amp. Confusing user experience, poor remote…
I've had a couple of matrix style surround processors in the 1990's and early 2000's. I think one of them was the Heathkit AD-2550. Then it was Dolby Digital surround, and finally upgraded to a 10 speaker ATMOS system mid 2022.
I imagine this would be perfect for someone who has one system for both music and television. I'm thinking small spaces, apartment living, etc.. The only drawback is that you need to have 3 separate amps all with their own separate power cords. That could be too much clutter for a lot of people. Schiit should make a 5ch power amp. Maybe it could have 80w for left and right, 40w for front and 20w for the rears. I imagine a system with SYN, 1 Vidar and 2 Gjallrhorn would sound pretty great in a smaller space.
You wouldn't really need 2 Gjallrhorn. it'd be 1 Vidar, and like, 2 Rekkr's. You don't need a whole lot of amplification for Center and Rear channels. And then since nobody uses Passive subs anymore, you can just use an active sub straight into the Syn. Personally if I do get the Syn, I'm going to run 1 Gjallrhorn and 2 Rekkrs. With one rekkr in mono mode for the center channel.
this thing is a rip off. My yamaha AVR was $380 5 years ago, has brown burr dacs, does all the surround formats, does actual surround not 1970s fake surround, does HDMI switching and oh by the way doesnt need a separate amp.
Wait, I saw 6 knobs......... Oh!!! You ment on the thingy.. I get it now 🤪😉😉😉 I joke, but great video again. From a kid who reversed polaritied his "surround" speakers and got his dad's 2 channel radio shack stereo to do surround, this DAC speaks to me in the old school simplicity sense. Cool stuff
Just read this doesn't use any "formats". Just "matrix" processing. Save your money, if you find an early 90's prologic processor and you'll end up with something similar. They'd probably pay you to get rid of it.
Randi Thx for your video about this new Schiit Product. I own 3 Schiit products : Mani, Loki, and a Saga. Bottomline question, Can I use the SYN to enhance my current 2 Channel Stereo system to provide a Surround sound Flavor from the 2 Speakers?
Nice bit of show & tell Randy! but one thing i found unclear was - is it stereo only for analog? or also the digital inputs? Well i checked, its stereo analog only even with the digital inputs - there is no discrete surround with digital input on this. too bad, if it did then I would buy it for gaming for sure. What I really want to see on the market is a ultra compact class d surround receiver. that would be perfect for gaming and movies at my gaming station (I don't like gaming with headphones).
I have an old adcom gfa 7000 that will pair right up to this. Im done with the avr chase myself and more of a music person now. Can't wait to try it out. Just wish it had some sort of primitive bass management for the rest of the channels. Update : It works great for my purpose! Small 5.0 set up. May add a sub next. Maybe not. The two volume knobs for the center and rear channels simplify easy set up. And then you tailor the sound with the other two. I had a multichannel amp to use so it worked out. Didn't want to spend $1100 on the Emotiva a just yet. No regrets. Schiit just makes gadgets that work.
Sooo…I can’t just connect my left and right speakers correct? Since it only has one L and R output? What else would I need in order to use my bookshelf speakers for this? I heard you mention you need separate amps? What does that mean? You hook up the speakers to the separate amp and then to the Syn?
HTPC (or Mac Mini) -> Syn -> stack of Klipsch powered speakers. That'll do. (Or Optical Out from the TV -> Syn -> powered speakers, which actually makes more sense with a multiple input solution)
I was really interested in this.. listened to the whole video.. it wasn't until I was reading about it on the schiit website that I realised it doesn't support any actual home cinema surround processing... No Dolby DTS or 5.1 even.. I saw all these comments about no hdmi... I couldn't care less about HDMI.. BUT the optical input on this only deals with stereo!
IF it had XLR outputs for all the channels, it could work well with powered monitors. I wouldn't want to make long runs with RCA cables. Schiit's new small amps would be the way to go, if you wanted the Schiitiest surround sound experience. HA
It takes a stereo output from your TV and creates an artificial surround mix. Your bulky AV takes multiple channels decoded from dolby etc and allows you to individually tweak each channel to your optimum sound taking in to account room acoustics etc. It is a very different animal to an AV receiver but a very simple way to achieve 5 channels of sound from a pcm or analogue stereo source.
No HDMI, no Dolby, you need three additional amps to make this thing work (so it's far from "simple") and it's $400... I'll stick with my Yamaha AVR I think. Sorry Randy, it's a dud.
This is a product lots of people could consider. For example, I have surround system and I have hi fi ( not calling it audiophile ) system in same room . Two amps and 4 left right speakers + the centre and rear speakers. Two different systems. This allows me connect all under 1 control and get rid of two L/R speakers . Just wondering how good the DAC is on the unit
What inexpensive 3 channel amps do you recommend for the Syn to run the center and rear channels ? Parasound ZoneMaster 4 ? Emotiva BasX A3 ? or something else entirely ?
Sherman set the wayback machine for 1974! Come Randy, let me drag you back to the early days of surround sound and the "Quad Wars" :-) Here we are doing the "ambiance recovery" thing circa mid '70's with active electronics and Schiit magic at line levels rather than with power resistors, L pads, and lots of speaker wire. We used to call it poor mans quad, but the funny thing was even with the minimal setups of the 1970's the matrix / passive recovery setups sounded better than CD4 or SQ in most cases. I did have a Heathkit AA2005 quad amp which had active matrix as one of the rear channel options. Center speakers weren't a thing back then. Toss in a heaping helping of 1980's separation / image processors which sort of took over from quad which had died by then, no one winner came out of all the competing "standards" and market fragmentation killed it. Carry on, now folks played with widening or deepening the apparent sound stage in assorted ways. I think I'm going to have to spring for one of these little beasts, looks like fun. Might even trigger some trips down audio memory lane. Schiit is really doing some interesting things, when I saw the recent lower power amps all I could think of was Nelson Pass and First Watt, where the first watt is the most important, it's where you live most of the time. So glad to see an outfit playing in this arena, until now high quality low power amps have been mostly the domain of homebrew audio folks. Thanks for all the great videos!
I’m a surround junkie and this got me excited, but fell really short for a few reasons. I would love to see how it would decode my quadraphonic records, but it has no phono input. It’s also impossible to find a modern receiver with analog inputs so you can’t really hook it to a single amp for surround sound.
Look for an amp with multi-channel inputs. I assume that's what you want for quad sound, because phono inputs and and stereo analogue inputs are basic features on most receivers. Multi-channel inputs will allow you to make the discrete connections for each channel.
This is actually what I was looking for last year and struggled to find it. Ended up buying a sound blaster x4 and Logitech surround sound system. I didn’t want to use HDMI at all.
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Pair it with a multi channel pro amplifier (not audiophile,, a stage amp) with BIG power like Crown ....
The comment section is fire ! Good job man :)
@@briantracy1324 I'm close to finally getting my hands on a fine example of my dream multi-channel amp, a Sunfire Audio Cinema Grand Signature II. 425Wx5@8ohms. The Schitt unit pushing Optical from TV, USB from Streamer+NAS, and RCA split input from Phono Preamp & OPPO Player might prove to be simply Synful.
Time for speaker upgrades!
While I was watching to the video, I was thinking in possibilities.
It’s great for using with active speakers or for combine active speakers and amp + passive ones.
It’s also useful for a surround desktop system, just for enjoy music and videos or even for gaming.
I am nit sure if it could get a double stereo using the front and surround, but if it does it, it could be possible also to use with two amps or an amb and active speakers or just use it for doing comparations.
The crossfeed habilitó for the headphones is also a good feature.
Dude, as long as you are not man enough to pronounce the brand name correctly, I will ignore you channel going forward. This is so annoying.
Just bought this from your recommendation...thanks for the assist...
Before watching this video, I recommend reading the FAQ on this product on the Schiit site first. That's what I did (by accident!) and I therefore didn't have the same problem that other viewers did. I do wish Randi went into more detail about how the Presence and Width knobs impacted things....he said he could talk forever about it, and I'd like to see a longer video where he just nerds out on testing the settings and different modes.
No HDMI input......nope did not destroy home theater.
HDMI, while needed for Atmos, has become a joke. Did you know that the geniuses that make up the HDMI specs have said HDMI 2.0 no longer exists and everything is HDMI 2.1 now?
Even HDMI 1.4 can be called 2.1 now. All 2.1 specs are now optional and it's up to the manufacturer to list what 2.1 "features" it actually supports.
A good example would be the Homeatics android streaming box. It claims it's HDMI 2.1 but it's 20b, which doesn't exist anymore. Also, outside 8K, 2.1 isn't needed for video, only gaming consoles.
The only reason TV manufacturers are using the term 2.0 is it would cause way too much confusion and they would get way too many returns.
Now, while you and me might look at all the features imagine a mother trying to buy their kid a gaming monitor then buying one that claims 2.1, then does zero 2.1 "features".
Also, no rerunning long HDMI runs when the spec changes which is a huge headache. Especially if you are running cables though walls or through the ceiling/crawlspace. Yes, everything back to HDMI 1.4 supports all audio formats but if you're a gamer you need 2.1 with most, if not all the optional features for things like VRR.
I'm sorry but get ready for this everything is going to usbc
@@JoshFisher567 pointing out the ridiculous convoluted stare of hdmi does not negate the fact that it's a required element of modern home theater.
I’m one of those guys happy to post an opinionated comment before watching the entire video, so maybe this is covered, but on of the most useful features of HDMI for me is the CEC control of multiple components through the eARC connection. Is that something that USB C can presently support, and how long before itself is upgraded?
HDMI is both a complete mess and ubiquitous. It reminds me of what happened with USB 3 and the renaming of its zillion revisions. Needing a reference defeats the original purpose of these standards.
The reason there's no vocals in the surround channels is because the surround outputs are based on the difference between the Left and Right channels (L-R and R-L). Vocals are usually placed at the center of the soundstage, thus vocals are coming out 'equally' from both the L and R channels. If the surround is derived from L-R and R-L, then center channel info will be subtracted out.
Right but it's not using Dolby to separate it as he said, it's an older technology
@@hippo319 Wiring up a "difference channel" speaker definitely counts as an older technology: Take a stereo system, wire a third speaker to the positive (or negative) contacts of both the left and right speaker outputs. Maybe put a potentiometer inline, so you can fiddle with the third speaker's volume. Hang speaker above your couch. Play any sort of stereo content. Voila! An ambiance channel! I did it in the 80's. It'll have a bunch of reverb, some instruments, but hardly any vocals. And yes, if you played some of that new-fangled Dolby matrix-surround content through such a system, it will "decode" that as well. Sort of. But all you really need is vanilla 2-channel content.
matrix surround circuit
As a long-time fan and subscriber of the channel, I have to say that this is the first video from Randy that I believe really needed another take. Specifically, he has three opportunities near the beginning to say, "Here's exactly what this thing *is*," and all three times he announces that he's about to do that, and then reverts to the usual segments in his review videos, such as "on the front." It gradually emerged why this piece is special and what it does and doesn't do, but the video was needlessly frustrating to watch. An "un-amplified home theater control center" takes, what, four or five seconds to say?
Randy needs to script his videos. When he wings it he has a habit of either getting repetitive or flat out missing key sections of whatever it is he's talking about.
@@TheRealPotoroo I love the guy but I'm also relieved that I'm not the only one who noticed that. There's a review of his that I value very highly and have watched many times -- I think it might be the Aiyima T9 -- in which he says, "I like it much better this way" or some-such, and it's not at all obvious what he's referring to.
He just seems more into quantity of material vs quality and accurate content from my observations. 600+ videos Not all..but some.
@@rianredfield5252 Yikes, I wouldn't go *that* far -- but I don't disagree with TRP that his videos would benefit from more detailed scripting.
I'd give him a break re scripting. I think his lack thereof makes it seem more like a conversation between "friends" rather than a professional presentation... not that he's not *professional* :)
I'm strictly into two channel, but I have numerous amps and eight pair of speakers. This is all I need to experiment with multi channel. I ordered one!!
Multi channel can be fun too. Enjoy!
you will need a player that decodes SACD`s, 5.1multi channel, blu ray audio. Then from the player usb to the syn in usb, then rca to amps. Some Sony blu ray not all will work (cheap at goodwill) I suggest Pink Floyd Alan Parson mix in surround of dark side of the moon ! The quality of HIFI sound ! its Awesome.
@@jeffmarshall6752 This thing is not really relevant to multi channel sacds because it takes a stereo only input and creates a pseudo surround system from that.
Unless you have 5 identical speakers, this will most likely be a disaster.
The minimum requirement would be 3 identical speakers in front.
@@spiroszaharakis2648 Sorry, I don't drink the "identical speaker " Kool aid". I'll make due with what I have.
yup, this is a matrix thing like the old dolby stereo in film prints, or its competitor ultrastereo: yes the center channel is deduced by being in phase and in the centre, then extracted, but then so is the surround sound: it's basically everything that was encoded 180 degrees _out_ of phase. Sounds great for TV and basic movies for a wide variety of people, and the direct manual control of the centre channel level (instead of diving into a menu) is GREAT! But the surround signal is actually mono, being just the extracted out-of phase stuff. Like in the original film theatre setup, it's actually 4.1, not 5.1. All the surrounds have the same thing in them.
Hey Randy, love your content, but as someone who wasn't familiar with the Syn before watching this video, I found it unusually difficult to follow. You first go over the dials without much of an introduction about this (somewhat unusual) device. You then switch to the remote control, before going back to the main unit for the inputs/outputs, and it isn't until the "final thoughts" section that you give a high-level explanation of what this device is and does. I kinda struggled to make sense of everything to be honest, and believe it would have been much easier to follow in pretty much the reverse order: high-level introduction, inputs/outputs, main unit controls, remote control, and then final thoughts. Kind of a "top-down" approach so to speak. Not a huge deal, this was still very informative, just food for thought for your future videos I guess? Anyway, thanks for the review! (edit: typos)
This product is a solution to a problem that does not exist.
Wrong
maybe to you, but this is literally exactly the thing i was looking for for my setup. i’ve been wanting to get a surround sound setup using my studio monitors instead of actual surround sound speakers and the syn has the rca outs i need
The ability to switch from 2 channel music listening to multi channel video watching without having to physically change out my vintage gear is brilliant. This makes so much sense for us that mostly listen to music but occasionally want to watch a movie. Just the addition of the center channel and sub feature sold me on this.
you could also just use an integrated or pre with home theater bypass
Bit of an audio noob but does this mean I can attach this to my stereo amp and then attach some surround speakers to it without investing in a separate multi-channel amp?
@@onibon1990 you'll be able to use your existing stereo amp for your main speakers. You will need to add additional amps for you center, surround and sub channels.
@@onibon1990 It means you can replace your stereo amp but need powered, active or a power amp to passive speakers as it passes line level output to 6 channels. e.g. the front speakers could be run from your existing amp connected to an aux or tape input with rears, centre and sub being active speakers.
Aside from the DAC and headphone amp, Yamaha had all that and much more -- including actual, licensed Dolby decoding -- back in the 1980s .
I want one! I was so afraid this was some kind of April Fool gig when I first saw it the other day, lol.
I have a long history of loving immersive sound formats, multi-channel music, and oddball electronics. Bob Carver's C-9 Sonic Holography unit is still a treat in 2023. I still have my first SACD/DVD-Audio player which was an Onkyo CS-V720 DVD mini shelf system. Eventually purchased an OPPO player for all my disc formats before they went out of production. These days the OPPO feeds preamp outputs direct to 5.1 channels of amplifiers for a very simple setup. So the idea of the Syn is right up my alley.
In fact, my first true surround system came by using an oddball add-on component, the Yamaha DSP-E492 to a Carver stereo setup.
I think the Syn was made for me!
Finally! Someone that gets it!
I remember when my parents had a Sony TV that had SRS (sound retrieval system). I enjoyed the faux-surround as it really widened the sound stage.
Great video, the Syn makes so much sense for Audiophiles, who like to watch Netflix series too in good quality, without the constantly changing surround formats. Just ordered one to use this as a pre-amp for the Vidar and will indeed use a Ayima A07 for the center as a FINALLY 3.0 front system. THANKS RANDY
Why? The surround sound that comes from this won't even come close to actual surround sound. I thought audiophiles are about playing back what was recorded? This is playing back something that has nothing at all to do with what was recorded.
Constantly changing surround formats?! I'm currently using an AVR that only does AC3 and DTS... formats that have been obsolete for a decade now? It still works. And I get actual surround sound. And if the device supported Dolby Atmos, what else is there supposed to come? Atmos was introduced 2014 and is the standard until now, and will probably remain so for the foreseable future. And even when something better should come around, you'll be able to use it.
I don’t quite understand - can this high pass the main channels to do bass management? That would surely be the most important feature for the application, otherwise I think it’s way too niche. For movie watching it’s very silly to try and extract the center channel from a downmixed stereo signal, when the multichannel output is clean. If anything I would say a much more interesting application is the reverse one: make a small signal processor that receives atmos etc, and downmixes to stereo with center channel boost capability and bass management. That would actually be practical for the masses.
To solve HDMI issues, just run HDMI connections into the TV, optical out to the surround processor, done.
This is what I've been looking for. I'm running powered monitors on each channel, so no need for amps. It's perfect.
I too thought it was an april foolery! I just can't see anyone buying this for surround. Sorry.
Seems like the answer to a question no one asked.
This is almost exactly what I want. It just needs to also have at least Class D amp built in to power the main, center and rears. The sub is fine as a pre-amp output because it's easy to find fairly decent powered subs on the cheap. This is something I would love to have on my computer desk setup with a 3.1 configuration (front main, center and sub). Adding in an additional amplifier per channel makes it a no-go for the somewhat budget minded. I daily drive an SMSL SA300 DAC/Amp with a set of Bic America DV62si bookshelves and F12 subwoofer. It's not perfect, but it's excellent for what it is. The only thing I REALLY want that it doesn't have is a dedicated center channel. Is there anything on the market that is both a DAC and an amplifier, has multiple analog and digital inputs, and rocks more than 2.1 channels that isn't either a GIANT receiver or is outrageously expensive?
Found you a few months ago and I'm impressed with your reviews and your knowledge of this part of the amp world. Thanks
This had a Dolby Atmos processor, at least one HDMI input, and some height outputs, it really would be disruptive. As it is, I don't know what would do with it or who this is for.
Really niche market. When Marantz makes a $600 5.2 channel AVR with HDMI and the amplification built-in plus pre-outs for stereo purists, this is a very small set of people who care about TV sound quality a bit and have the knowledge to know how to set this up (and even be aware of Schiit), but who don't care about TV sound quality enough to get a proper AVR or pre-processor.
I was really excited for the first 5 minutes though while I thought this might have HDMI.
I don't know about disruptive, but what you describe is an AV preamp. Lots of them out there. This is more of a multi-channel preamp with equalization. Not true surround, but a good facsimile. Like he said, it's probably more for people that want to move beyond a soundbar, but don't want to mess with a receiver.
@@geraldmcmullon2465 That's a good point about active speakers. This would be ideal for those, as it would tidy everything up and save you from having to scrounge up 2 or 3 separate amps. It's best use would probably be as a PC or console sound system, IMO.
@@boneseyyl1060 To avoid the overused trope "disruptive", An Atmos AV pre/processor nearly 1/3 the cost of the current lowest price alternative would change things up for a lot of people. Especially if the managed to keep it remarkably simple
THIS!!!! its a "surround sound processor"....yea, from 1993 at best! Without HDMI, optical ain't gonna decode good bitrates. this ain't hi-fi. it's just a flop, an AIWA boombox at best.
Thanks!
wow! thank you so much
Just tried a set of oil filled cables.
I no longer have a sweet spot but, I now have a sweet range.
I stumbled upon the Syn on their website the other day and I was fascinated but kinda baffled by it. Thanks for explaining it. It's a little weird to need separate amps, but I guess the modular route has its advantages too. I guess powered monitors is the other option, which could be more practical for gamers too.
You could use one 5.1 amp, multiple amps aren't required, it's just an option. A lot of high end systems use separate amps but that's more about more power and channels than anything else. If you had 11+ channels multiple amps are usually needed. Like 7 speakers, 4 ceiling speakers. Subs obviously have their own amps so the sub output would go directly into the sub input. Most 11+ channel home theater dedicated amps cost 15K+. Dennis receiver that supports this many channels is 3K+ but that's a receiver and amp combo and supports decoding of all audio formats.
The only downside to this is no decoding of things like Dolby digital and DTS IMO. It uses older matrix software that has been used in receivers for years to turn a 2 channel signal into a 5.1 like audio output signal like you would get with Dolby Digital.
Used powered monitors and a sub for years. Did get a very good dac/preamp with Xlr and usb / optical / analog inputs.
@@JoshFisher567 is there an affordable 5.1 amp out there that has separate analog inputs for all the channels? All the ones that I've seen would replace this rather than work with it.
@@illyth63 well you can use two stereo power amps, or four monoblocks or a four channel amplifier which would be the cheapest solution. You don't need an amp for the subwoofer, just the lfe out from the schiit syn itself, nobody uses passive subwoofers today anyways. Audiophonics sells the hpa-q250nc for 1090.00€ with four channels it would be a good match for the syn
@@illyth63 Take a look at Rotel RMB-1506 (6x50W), Rotel RMB 1555 (5x120W) or Marantz MM7055 (5x140W).
This is so cool. What's missing to me is a 3-channel Rekkr or GHorn. I feel like they could slowly expand their surround section. Maybe their next iteration can have an optional expansion for a 3rd channel?
You could do a Rekkr in mono-block for the centre and then add two GHorns for left and right.
Schiit does a great job making niche products. This isn't for everybody. But if it applies to a certain situation, it'z tha Schiit.
Looks like it would be a great Preamp. The new intros are cool. The drone from Oblivion , thats a good one.
Nope, I almost thought I had a replacement but looks like I'm keeping the Creative Soundblaster X7 for longer! Bass management, high and low pass filters, multiple configurations, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.1, Dolby digital on optical in, active amp for the front two channels as well as pre outs for all channels. Bluetooth aptx, usb, line in, headphone out, mic in, op amp swapping.. this thing is a beast in its own right and nothing seems to overtake it with what it can do.
This schitt box seems to be similar to a Creative Soundblaster X4 with no decoding, and that thing does have proper bass management
When I moved from another country, my Marantz SR7015 must have been dropped by the shipping company, because it will not work with my new TV. After seeing this video, I ordered the Schiit Syn as a stop gap measure while waiting to search for an authorised Marantz repair centre. Looking forward to receiving this product and being able to hear my loudspeakers again.
Thanks Randy! 👍
Thanks for the head's up about the Syn Randy. Very Interesting: I had the idea to try a external surround processor with my two channel rig for ambiance extraction on my live CDs. I tried this a few weeks ago using an old Audiosource Model 3 processor and the surround effect wasn't very good. Given the unit was likely ~ 30 years old or so who knows if it worked properly. I've heard ambiance extraction done right on a Theta Casablanca prepro years ago and the effect was amazing on live content from any source (including live FM radio concert broadcasts). It was like being at the live event sonically. I trust Schiit a lot more than Audiosource for high fidelity, so I'm definitely going to give the Syn a try.
I just got the Syn and cobbled together a Frankenstein system of powered speakers and I love this thing. I just put on a movie/show, twist a couple knobs, and eventually it gets to a sweet spot.
I’m watching The Thing right now and the kennel scene sounded great. When they’re in the hallway the sound of the dogs barking was in the surrounds while the dialogue was nice and centered. It just… works man idk. I’ll always be stereo for ‘serious’ listening, but music on this thing is just plain fun too. super immersive.
It’s definitely niche, but if this thing ‘speaks to you’ in any way I say go for it. I’m running a living room/listening room with a PS5, record player, and a HTPC, so the inputs were perfect for me. Do you have some extra speakers? Here’s a way you can still use them. Who cares if they match, you’re gonna EQ em on the Syn anyways. Just enjoy yourself.
how does this compare to dolby atmosphere ?
@@rajendrabiswas I have 0 idea
Jump to 5:30 into the video, where he finally describes the functions of the unit (like, what IS it). Intriguing product.
A real cheap way to get surround sound without spending any money is to connect a second pair of speakers to the B speakers + L and + R. Discovered it reading an old Radio Electronics magazine.
Over 5 minutes and I still have no clue what the fuck this thing is.
After 14 minutes, I went to the web site... It's a surround sound processor. Takes inputs, spits out surround sound.
I appreciate the amount of work you put in to your channel (not to mention the fact that you tolerate most of the absurd comments I make).
Love the new intros!
Keep in mind, folks, that separate theater processors tend to be crazy expensive (if anyone knows of a cheap one let me know). So, despite the lack of Atmos, etc, a key selling point here is you at get a device at least lets you do some sort of ersatz surround system with separates for $399.
Thanks for the review.
Cool product. I've been lamenting for years that there was not a small form factor, 3-5 channel receiver/pre-pro. I ended up ditching my 3.0 living room setup with an old receiver for a pair of The Fives about 2 years ago. While I enjoy them, I had always wondered about a way to add a center channel speaker I have laying around, and this could be it.
Great video! Did you get a chance to try the width/presence adjustments on headphones?
Let's see...
It costs $400 and, with exception of having a built-in DAC and headphone amp, it's nowhere near as versatile as the old Yamaha DSP-1/DSR-100Pro setup from the mid-1980s, which at least has actual Dolby (Pro-Logic, but I digress) and 6.1/7.1 capability. Hard pass!
As this is to work as a hometheater replacement, i would ditch the headphone out and the usb input and instead have binding posts for speaker outs. (speaker(s) amplifier) Much more usable in my opinion. Like if this and the aiyima a09 had a baby. I would buy one. :)
I am excited about this. Been dealing with a buggy Emotiva RMC-1L. Never again.
I thought Steve Guttenberg brought this product up yesterday as an April fools joke.
This is a joke right? A surround processor with none of the features of a surround processor! Why not just get an av receiver?
This sounds fantastic going back to simplicity. I have a original circle surround decoder that I’m using with my Bryston 4bsst and 9bsst amps and bryston preamp. I paid $1000 for it back in the late 90’s , you set it and forget it, for movies there is 30 millisecond delay, no delay for music. J Gordon Holt absolutely loved it on music. I checked out surround sound preamps at the time for upwards 3 & 4 thousand dollars that would become out dated every 6 months. I’m happy as can be with it . Does the trick for me , simple.
Dope intro!
Appreciate it
This is such a great thing for Jason and co. to do! This is based on old tried and true "Ambient Extraction" technology like the old Hafler method... Plus some special Schiit analog voodoo. Which anyone can experience by simply...to show you something most people are unaware of. If you connect the two positive or red speaker wires to two speakers and THEN simply bridge the negative BETWEEN those two speakers... What you'll hear is ALL the out of phase information in the recording...usually all the ambient or reverberation in the stereo recording! Instant surround if you have your regular two front mains..(speaker A) and then connect two smaller speakers in afore mentioned method (as "surrounds") as.. (speaker B) The main thing I think they've done is to do this in an analog "matrix" way to properly protected the amp from impedance swings with the kind of set up I've just described. I will be saving up to get one of these and they would absolutely work great with powered speakers as well (even easier) because you don't have to have additional amps for the set up of surrounds and center. And the sub is icing on the cake!
Once again Jason and Schiit have created a GREAT product that has perfected something that used to be an arcane nerdy simplistic way of getting "Surround Sound" BRAVO!!
But why fake it when you can have the real deal?
@@kadajawi6567 Actually many would think all the ..."digital, Dolby, DTS stuff..(I really like DTS mixes), are the artificial stuff and "true" ambient reproduction is this method... but it can change wildly based on how the original material was recorded.
@Cheap-audioman...Hi, been a fan and subscribed years ago! Have left other comments , first time reply. My name is Dave Smith and I've left in comment before that if you ever come out to LA I could arrange a tour of one of America's greatest recording Studios... East West Studios once Western Recorders where Pet Sounds was recorded as well as many, many others. This was one of the studios where the Wrecking Crew recorded SO many hits.
My sister Candace Sewart manages the place and is very well known in music industry circles. Metallica as even recorded there a few years back.
Randy, I can help explain the previous technology for you: The original machine has a base-plate of prefabulated aluminite, surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two main spurving bearings were in a direct line with the pentametric fan. The latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzlevanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar waneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus-o-delta type placed in panendermic semi-bovoid slots in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible tremie pipe to the differential girdlespring on the "up" end of the grammeters.
Hope this helps.
Sounds like you could almost use it for VX processing...
Corpus Christi local here. Great video as always. I’ve bought a handful of douk products based off your reviews. Great products
Good stuff!
I agree with comments that it would need HDMI (video switching) to be truly useful.
A similar technology came out in the early 70s , called quadraphonic sound. There were phonograph records with 4 channel soundtracks providing amazing surround sound. Unfortunately it didn't become popular. I had a decoder for those recordings that could also take a standard 2 channel recording from a record or cd, and derive the reverb, echoes and crowd noise from the sides and rear of the concert hall, placing you very realistically in the center of the concert hall! Great technology from the pre-digital era!
For those who don't understand. This is a stereo to multi-channel processor. It will never have true surround sound. Dolby prologic had a standard way of "encoding" the surround channels onto the 2 stereo channels, then the prologic decoder tried to separate them without crosstalk - not a very good solution. This thing doesn't even do that.
had to go back and watch that zombie intro again! awesome, dude!
I have a room where surround speakers aren't really possible. I'd be curious how this thing sounds with everything front-presence whether that be 3 channel (LCR) or 5 channel with the LCR + 2 Surrounds right up front? I suspect if this is to convert 2-channel into surround sound...most people that currently have a 2 channel setup are like that for similar reasons (an entire theater setup isn't feasible whether it be vintage equipment or the room).
Holy schiit seriously, this looks like so much fun, there goes another argument with the wife as to why I’m spending another $400 tho, oh well thanks Randy!
I also love how mad some people are at this, good job schiit!!!
Car stereo amp baby! I have a few laying around, an inexpensive AC/DC power converter/supply, some speaker cable, maybe a couple of line out converters... I could easily add this into my two channel rig. Already have the speakers, cables and amps... I think this is damn cool! ;-)
Planning this one for desktop gaming. I am currently using Schiit HEL 2e.
Basically, Hafler circuit tweaked. I have a McCormack MAP-1 (made by Conrad Johnson) that does the same thing. Bought it back in the nineties. HDMI ARC input would be nice but would add costs and extra processing.
Hey Randy! I don’t really need one of these but I’m going to get one anyway! We have a 65” that has an optical out. Besides the Syn will look great sitting next to the Modius I just bought!
how do you wire in the center channel and sub woofer with only one pair of terminals on the back?
Eh im sure it sounds good but I'll stick with my Onkyo and Yamaha HT receiver's for all my video needs and my analog separates for my music. I used to love buying new tech and hooking everything up but it seems that tech has come to a flatting out stage and nothing is really coming to the table that i cant live without. Great video BTW.
This is good timing. Trying to reduce the number of wires on my floor (and being able to use/place all the new small amplifiers i've been buying lately. Looking at you, CAM-Fam), i'm using pre-outs to send signal wirelessly to different amplifiers.
Your link to the syn goes to the rekr. At first glance I thought this was 149. Which I thought well priced, but at 400? Nope. At around that price I can but a second hand surround pre, those things don't cost anything if they don't have HDMI. Saw a proceed for just 100 more.
Reminds me of the awesome Dynamo QD1 from around 1999 that did matrix decoding. It could sound amazing with acoustic and live music recordings. As I remember it, J&R Music World closed them out for 19.95. I vastly preferred it to most of the over processed early Dolby Digital modes for music. McCormack included similar functionality in their early 2000's MAP-! Multichannel Preamplifier, called ARM (Ambiance Recovery Mode). That could also sound excellent with music.
That thing is sick. I'd buy one if I could. I have one rig, bedroom desktop gaming and movies. I use my zen dac as my two channel pre. It might be pointless to most but I see a huge spot in the market for it.
My living room is not big enough for surround sound but this seems like an easy way to add a center channel to my TV.
Thanks Randy.
Schiit could have redeemed this product if they had simply provided a USB receiver chip with 5.1 PCM capability. The ES9118 is already 5.1 capable, but it requires all channels to be on S/PDIF and the C-Media chip Schiit is using, while 6 channel capable, only provides 2 channel S/PDIF internally. If they had only allowed 5.1 PCM input then a PC could do the surround decoding and support DirectSound3D so this would be ideal for gaming. As it is, matrix surround is less than useless for gaming because it creates unreal phantom surround channels -- it may sound like someone is behind you in multiplayer but it's not real.
I’m completely puzzled, why not be honest, why the constant praise, let’s be realistic here, this is pretty pointless, if you wanted these features you could just get a decent AVR, to use this you are going to need one anyways! Or an amp. Confusing user experience, poor remote…
I've had a couple of matrix style surround processors in the 1990's and early 2000's. I think one of them was the Heathkit AD-2550. Then it was Dolby Digital surround, and finally upgraded to a 10 speaker ATMOS system mid 2022.
I imagine this would be perfect for someone who has one system for both music and television. I'm thinking small spaces, apartment living, etc.. The only drawback is that you need to have 3 separate amps all with their own separate power cords. That could be too much clutter for a lot of people. Schiit should make a 5ch power amp. Maybe it could have 80w for left and right, 40w for front and 20w for the rears. I imagine a system with SYN, 1 Vidar and 2 Gjallrhorn would sound pretty great in a smaller space.
You wouldn't really need 2 Gjallrhorn. it'd be 1 Vidar, and like, 2 Rekkr's. You don't need a whole lot of amplification for Center and Rear channels. And then since nobody uses Passive subs anymore, you can just use an active sub straight into the Syn. Personally if I do get the Syn, I'm going to run 1 Gjallrhorn and 2 Rekkrs. With one rekkr in mono mode for the center channel.
Randy's become an honorary member of the Schiit Sherlock group for his expemlarary investigation, research, and reporting on Schiit Products.
this thing is a rip off. My yamaha AVR was $380 5 years ago, has brown burr dacs, does all the surround formats, does actual surround not 1970s fake surround, does HDMI switching and oh by the way doesnt need a separate amp.
No Dolby or DTS processing of any sort... explain to me just HOW this is a home theater killer?!!!
It's click bait silly! Words don't matter.
FWIW, Schiit gives their defense of the approach in their FAQ.
Wait, I saw 6 knobs.........
Oh!!! You ment on the thingy.. I get it now 🤪😉😉😉
I joke, but great video again.
From a kid who reversed polaritied his "surround" speakers and got his dad's 2 channel radio shack stereo to do surround, this DAC speaks to me in the old school simplicity sense. Cool stuff
Good stuff! I support any company brave enough to lean AWAY from HDMI for the consumer market.
Not having hdmi is a huge issue
Most TVs have optical out. That's all you need. Even analog line out will work.
A good issue, HDMI is a PIA.
@@razisn Yes but can't control the volume that way. So you need to have two remotes, which really sucks...
Just read this doesn't use any "formats". Just "matrix" processing. Save your money, if you find an early 90's prologic processor and you'll end up with something similar. They'd probably pay you to get rid of it.
I'm digging the intro dude
I’m more interested in just mains and a center when watching TV and just mains for music. If this would do the trick I would buy one.
That's exactly the setup we use. We're very happy with it.
Thoughts on this for use with the Meze 109 Pro? Goal is adding a Kraken and speakers later.
Randi Thx for your video about this new Schiit Product. I own 3 Schiit products : Mani, Loki, and a Saga. Bottomline question, Can I use the SYN to enhance my current 2 Channel Stereo system to provide a Surround sound Flavor from the 2 Speakers?
Nice bit of show & tell Randy! but one thing i found unclear was - is it stereo only for analog? or also the digital inputs? Well i checked, its stereo analog only even with the digital inputs - there is no discrete surround with digital input on this. too bad, if it did then I would buy it for gaming for sure.
What I really want to see on the market is a ultra compact class d surround receiver. that would be perfect for gaming and movies at my gaming station (I don't like gaming with headphones).
I have an old adcom gfa 7000 that will pair right up to this. Im done with the avr chase myself and more of a music person now. Can't wait to try it out. Just wish it had some sort of primitive bass management for the rest of the channels. Update : It works great for my purpose! Small 5.0 set up. May add a sub next. Maybe not. The two volume knobs for the center and rear channels simplify easy set up. And then you tailor the sound with the other two. I had a multichannel amp to use so it worked out. Didn't want to spend $1100 on the Emotiva a just yet. No regrets. Schiit just makes gadgets that work.
Sooo…I can’t just connect my left and right speakers correct? Since it only has one L and R output? What else would I need in order to use my bookshelf speakers for this? I heard you mention you need separate amps? What does that mean? You hook up the speakers to the separate amp and then to the Syn?
HTPC (or Mac Mini) -> Syn -> stack of Klipsch powered speakers. That'll do.
(Or Optical Out from the TV -> Syn -> powered speakers, which actually makes more sense with a multiple input solution)
I was really interested in this.. listened to the whole video.. it wasn't until I was reading about it on the schiit website that I realised it doesn't support any actual home cinema surround processing... No Dolby DTS or 5.1 even.. I saw all these comments about no hdmi... I couldn't care less about HDMI.. BUT the optical input on this only deals with stereo!
IF it had XLR outputs for all the channels, it could work well with powered monitors. I wouldn't want to make long runs with RCA cables. Schiit's new small amps would be the way to go, if you wanted the Schiitiest surround sound experience. HA
What stops this from replacing a bulk av receiver? Can it do dolby surround decoding or my TV can probably do that already.
It takes a stereo output from your TV and creates an artificial surround mix. Your bulky AV takes multiple channels decoded from dolby etc and allows you to individually tweak each channel to your optimum sound taking in to account room acoustics etc. It is a very different animal to an AV receiver but a very simple way to achieve 5 channels of sound from a pcm or analogue stereo source.
the 5 knobs look like a middle finger
No HDMI, no Dolby, you need three additional amps to make this thing work (so it's far from "simple") and it's $400...
I'll stick with my Yamaha AVR I think. Sorry Randy, it's a dud.
This is a product lots of people could consider. For example, I have surround system and I have hi fi ( not calling it audiophile ) system in same room . Two amps and 4 left right speakers + the centre and rear speakers. Two different systems. This allows me connect all under 1 control and get rid of two L/R speakers . Just wondering how good the DAC is on the unit
What inexpensive 3 channel amps do you recommend for the Syn to run the center and rear channels ? Parasound ZoneMaster 4 ? Emotiva BasX A3 ? or something else entirely ?
Late reply, but we use an A3 for LCR and are very pleased with the setup for 2CH and fronts in 5.1.
Sherman set the wayback machine for 1974! Come Randy, let me drag you back to the early days of surround sound and the "Quad Wars" :-) Here we are doing the "ambiance recovery" thing circa mid '70's with active electronics and Schiit magic at line levels rather than with power resistors, L pads, and lots of speaker wire. We used to call it poor mans quad, but the funny thing was even with the minimal setups of the 1970's the matrix / passive recovery setups sounded better than CD4 or SQ in most cases. I did have a Heathkit AA2005 quad amp which had active matrix as one of the rear channel options. Center speakers weren't a thing back then. Toss in a heaping helping of 1980's separation / image processors which sort of took over from quad which had died by then, no one winner came out of all the competing "standards" and market fragmentation killed it. Carry on, now folks played with widening or deepening the apparent sound stage in assorted ways. I think I'm going to have to spring for one of these little beasts, looks like fun. Might even trigger some trips down audio memory lane.
Schiit is really doing some interesting things, when I saw the recent lower power amps all I could think of was Nelson Pass and First Watt, where the first watt is the most important, it's where you live most of the time. So glad to see an outfit playing in this arena, until now high quality low power amps have been mostly the domain of homebrew audio folks.
Thanks for all the great videos!
I wish it came in the classic silver finish. Not a fan of this recent trend of only releasing new products in black
I avoid bassy sounds so am I better off with Schitt Dac ,a Fossi amp and cheap speakers than powered speakers (AudioEngine) for example? Thanks !
I’m a surround junkie and this got me excited, but fell really short for a few reasons. I would love to see how it would decode my quadraphonic records, but it has no phono input. It’s also impossible to find a modern receiver with analog inputs so you can’t really hook it to a single amp for surround sound.
Look for an amp with multi-channel inputs.
I assume that's what you want for quad sound, because phono inputs and and stereo analogue inputs are basic features on most receivers. Multi-channel inputs will allow you to make the discrete connections for each channel.
@@roybrandon343 yeah I actually went with an older av receiever with phono and multi-channel inputs. Works like a champ
I'm still using a IBM T41p laptop and a T42p, as my media system.
Both run XP Sp2 and have no internet functionality.
They just keep working thought.
This is actually what I was looking for last year and struggled to find it. Ended up buying a sound blaster x4 and Logitech surround sound system. I didn’t want to use HDMI at all.