For those of you who’d like to see more Walking Dead content, or content tackling ethical topics in zombie media, please like, share and subscribe. Also, please consider becoming a channel member. Unlike my gaming content, videos like these tend to get demonetized due to the footage I’m using. Anyways, thanks for all your kind words and I’m looking forward to further engaging with you all in other videos.
Did you possibly tease a video on the Governor at the end by chance? This video was put together and presented well, so I'd totally be down for more analysis videos like this.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldThis was thought provoking. I think that guy was making a jab at your voice, but hell if I know. Liked and subbed. Produce more content like this and you will grow. Doesn't have to be all walking dead related, you clearly have some knowledge on philosophy and literature(particularly pertaining to character development and symbolism) in my opinion anyway
@@TheRealCaptainGoldcan we get a what if negan won. I would like to hear how they would have dealt with the,the famine, the whispers and then the commonwealth
@@TheRealCaptainGold I disagree. I think most likely a person would just kill you and take your stuff. Negan's way is dangerous. Ultimately, it invites revolution.
If this hasn't already been mentioned: Negan when he originally took over Sanctuary said the people there were a "confederacy of assholes" and "gangs of animals". That would likely be the type of people who would realistically survive a zombie apocalypse. Negan's methods only works if you're dealing with savage survivalists who only understand fear/intimidation and refuse diplomacy. Negan's main flaw was treating everyone he met after that like those people. I kind of wished they would've shown how Sanctuary was before Negan took over for better context on why he treated them the way he did.
Dude I wished they would have explored preNegan sanctuary since he and simon talked about teaming up for a takeover and how they killed to previous asshole leader, the tease
If you didn't treat everyone you met like a confederacy of assholes then you would most definitely get exploited by the gang of animals you didn't profile correctly. My Hobbesian mindset cannot comprehend any other outcome in a situation such as a Zombie Apocalypse.
@@Weltshmerz maybe will be mention as a flashback for dead city since negan probably has to be his old self on the island. Idk been awhile since i watched dead city.
Pretty sure he converted or killed those that were supposedly savages, so they wouldn't or couldn't survive an apocalypse long term since they have no rules what is acceptable and probably turned on each other constantly, also keeping in mind no social structure that Negan built into all his survivors by keeping them humanized to a certain degree
This is why I’m mixed on negans redemption mostly due to the fact that Jeffrey dean morgan plays him to perfection in every scene he’s in but the fact that I felt for him and his desire to change I just cannot excuse his past behavior and while killing Glenn normally would’ve been one thing but killing him brutally while bashing his brains out and mocking him and clearly finding pleasure in that just cannot be excused he did those things maybe he’s not that person anymore but he did those things and he will be know for those things until the day he dies
People thinking Rick was just as bad as Negan clearly didn’t watch the show or are being blinded by their fondness for the character’s charisma. Rick didn’t enslave people, didn’t have multiple wives he coerced into sexual relationships and he wasn’t opposed to a democratic process.
Everyone is like Rick attacked first so obviously negan is the victim. Rick attacked a bunch of raiders who were taking food and supplies from hilltop and had someone captive. And we learn later that the hilltops doctors brother was taken by the saviors
@@jeremyscungio16 He also purely didnt attack first. I hate people who say this. The saviors attacked Daryl, Sasha and Abraham first. Then jesus said the saviors came to the hilltop and took their shit and then killed a 14 year old kid just because.
Rick did oppose democracy. The iconic line "this isn't a democracy anymore" from season 2 carried all the way until season 4. Rick also was willing to kill the Alexandrans "How many of you do I need to kill before you learn?" Quote is talking to them. He turns into shane only to be humbled by negan. Rick and Co attacked negan on the word of people he just met. This was done so they could trade. He wasn't concerned with who was in the right or wrong. He killed an entire Outpost on a deal. All this is to say people shouldn't agree with negan but acting as if Rick was better is not accurate. Let's also not forget his betrayl and execution of saviors during the war. They freed him and wanted to join him they were just scared and as he said "I lied" last thing is negan is the same coin as Rick just amped up a few notches
he didnt oppose democracy, he was just tired of everyones shit and wanted em to shut up or leave tired of them second guessing everything he did lol, hes the only dictator to give power back to the people and they gave it back to him .... your right he was willing to kill Alexandrians and take the place over, he did snap a bit and mirror shane from the barn scene, again this just seemed cuz he was tired of everyones shit playing pretend like they were at woodbury, but he never ended up killing anyone like that or took the place over by force, which shane was clearly down with, he came back from the snap like he always does... im sure rick and co wouldnt do such an attack on a group without doing necessary recon, which they did, but even without that, they had already encountered the group they were talking about and knew about them, and once they learned more, like them taking joy in killin kids, theres not much more to talk about for an ex cop, the story checked out with what daryl, abe and sasha went thru -- the stabbing and story of the situation was enough to get a clear picture, and rick was right, the saviors would have found them eventually ricks decisions are always out of self defense or survival, he never takes pleasure in doing the bad stuff(unless its revenge), thats the difference i would say, you can argue ricks not the good guy anymore, hes says so himself, but to say he and negan are the same just a few notches amped up i wouldnt say is correct at all - if everyone was chill, rick would be chill, if everyone was chill, negan would come in and steal their shit @@Indigoyowl
@@susanne25262No it isn’t. Their are very few exceptions like Stalin, and even then that’s because he led the Soviet Union in WW2. Literally the only reason
Negan used what was at one point considered to be a sound military tactic, a.k.a decimation, you kill one of every 10 soldiers and the rest will fall in line, if you're trully fucked you'll force them to chose who dies and then have one of them do the killing, so it could be way waay worse. My fav chapter of WWZ depicts the Russian army doing that to deal with "discontent" and the effects it had on soldiers and officers.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldI think you fail to realize that negan was dealing with a bunch of lying back stabbing terrible people. The people that actually survived in the wild and made the society function were ex prisoner biker gang types. They were a basic organization and rules for killers by killers.
"Negan and the Saviors in TWD actually represent the government. The communities affiliated with them usually carry light close-range weapons, which indicates that there is no significant walker threat or threat from other communities. This means the Saviors act like the police in the state to protect from internal unrest and the military to protect from walkers. They also prevent theft. For example, Negan's officer with the burned face had previously attempted to steal all the insulin supplies of the community in the previous season. It is not known if anyone died in the Savior camp due to this medication theft, but it is believed that a few people died in the effort to capture him. In reality, if one considers a situation where police officers die while catching someone who embezzles the country's medication stocks, and even patient losses occur, the punishment he received is very minimal, as he was immediately released. Yes, he lost his relationship and was partially disabled, but he only suffered a cosmetic injury with no permanent disability. In some countries, the punishment for such major crimes is death or life imprisonment. Rick and his group first blew up nearly 10 motorcycle patrol members of the Saviors with a rocket launcher. Then, under the influence of a drunken town leader, they conducted a night raid on a soldier/police station and killed nearly 30 adult combatants in their sleep. Many states would classify this as a terrorist act and eliminate the perpetrators wherever they are found. Despite this, Negan and his group killed only 2 of the approximately 10 members of Rick's group. It should be remembered that in a world with such problems, building prisons and feeding criminals for life is not feasible. Negan's officers, like in any state, engage in corrupt or overly dictatorial behavior. Therefore, Negan and the Saviors represent the fairest state-like system that can exist in a city that has experienced an emergency situation like an earthquake. And as a result, Rick and his group caused the deaths of about 40 of Negan's men initially, then crippled hundreds of his adult combat-ready men with faulty bullets, and caused the deaths of hundreds of people and one tiger in the civil war they initiated. The survivors became easy targets for another group like the Whisperers. Thus, because Rick under the orders of the drunken leader where he switched sides mid-season and killed by rick's group, they ended a potential alliance that could have genuinely transformed into a state."
@@broderin9741I haven’t watched twd and don’t know anything about Negan but it seems like you have a valid point. Some countries even execute drugdealers just because the potential harm it causes their citizens. In a world like twd where everything is back to the wild west, someone should take order. An interesting topic nontheless
I saw Kirkman say we would feel for Negan if we had followed his story from the beginning. Negan became the thing that happens to people. Any higher morals were long forgotten.
Not sure that the back story we were actually shown fully supports that. The brutality was the result of what he encountered in the apocalypse, but he was quite the asshole before anyone rose from the dead.
@@dawsondudark Yeah, to hell with any nuance of people changing because of fraumatic events, and the world changing. This must mean Rick ALWAYS wanted to kill people in cold blood!
@@therobustempyrean1436 just means he was capable. Probably why he became a deputy. But there’s a difference between Rick killing ppl who were or stood with the slaughtering of children vs the ppl who were or stood with the slaughtering of children 😂
Alexander The Great was a fantastic example of how leading with strength only lasts one generation of leadership. He was unstoppable, but on his deathbed when they asked him who should succeed him to carry on his work, his response was: ''The strongest.'' This led to a huge power vacuum where every one of his generals tried proving themselves as such, and it basically all fell apart because of that. This is why it's been generally accepted not to have the strongest lead, but to have the overall most capable lead.
Better than being weak and stepped on leader until your eventual murder for a power struggle. It's a zombie apocalypse resources are thin having a democratic rule is a luxury for a stable economy.
i think that's the problem. people respect strength more than morality. more than intelligence and definitely more than maturity. that's why some idiots think negan was right. that's why people worship andrew bait. that's why people worship soldier boy.
"Negan and the Saviors in TWD actually represent the government. The communities affiliated with them usually carry light close-range weapons, which indicates that there is no significant walker threat or threat from other communities. This means the Saviors act like the police in the state to protect from internal unrest and the military to protect from walkers. They also prevent theft. For example, Negan's officer with the burned face had previously attempted to steal all the insulin supplies of the community in the previous season. It is not known if anyone died in the Savior camp due to this medication theft, but it is believed that a few people died in the effort to capture him. In reality, if one considers a situation where police officers die while catching someone who embezzles the country's medication stocks, and even patient losses occur, the punishment he received is very minimal, as he was immediately released. Yes, he lost his relationship and was partially disabled, but he only suffered a cosmetic injury with no permanent disability. In some countries, the punishment for such major crimes is death or life imprisonment. Rick and his group first blew up nearly 10 motorcycle patrol members of the Saviors with a rocket launcher. Then, under the influence of a drunken town leader, they conducted a night raid on a soldier/police station and killed nearly 30 adult combatants in their sleep. Many states would classify this as a terrorist act and eliminate the perpetrators wherever they are found. Despite this, Negan and his group killed only 2 of the approximately 10 members of Rick's group. It should be remembered that in a world with such problems, building prisons and feeding criminals for life is not feasible. Negan's officers, like in any state, engage in corrupt or overly dictatorial behavior. Therefore, Negan and the Saviors represent the fairest state-like system that can exist in a city that has experienced an emergency situation like an earthquake. And as a result, Rick and his group caused the deaths of about 40 of Negan's men initially, then crippled hundreds of his adult combat-ready men with faulty bullets, and caused the deaths of hundreds of people and one tiger in the civil war they initiated. The survivors became easy targets for another group like the Whisperers. Thus, because Rick under the orders of the drunken leader where he switched sides mid-season and killed by rick's group, they ended a potential alliance that could have genuinely transformed into a state."
Maybe not all of them. But negan doesn't make them stay as his wives. The women are just lazy and don't want to leave due to having to work and not having the luxuries of being his wife.
@@BigBillsBadDealslazy because they don’t want to do back breaking labor? Negan literally said to Daryl that one of the options was to become a worker working for points but he was going to wish he was dead
The whole purpose of "Here's Negan." Was to show that Rick could have easily turned out like Negan after Lori died. The only reason he didn't is because Rick had people to keep him grounded. Negan had no one, and that's what sent him down a dark path.
I find The Governor and Negan interesting because we only know them by their alias. Negan was interesting because it was an alias all the saviors used and not a real name. Kirkman ruined their characters by totally revealing their backstories and revealing their names. Negan’s relationship with his bat “Lucille” and The Governor’s relationship with his zombie daughter was already good enough to tell they are broken because they lost loved ones.
Unlikely. Rick's personality is completely different. Her is cruel to protect those he loves. Negan loves no one, he is cruel because he enjoys it or to achieve power.
I feel like people rely way too much on the satellite station event as a way to argue that ricks group did something to deserve what happened. Those people are the satellite we're still negans soldiers and still were evil as all hell. They had pictures of smashed heads hanging over their beds like some happy memories scrap book. Just because they were asleep doesn't mean anything. If they were awake that would've made a difference? No. They were still evil and got what was coming. Let's also not forget that if the saviors found out about Alexandria's existence it would've only been a matter of time before they came knocking and we would've ended up in the same place we ultimately did anyway.
Tell me in every season in every place and community Rick's group comes across they ruin and utterly destroy them. Sure Rick is good on his people, but to others? Hell nah they get burnt on a cross.
@@bigdot2355 lol very true. The other day I made the joke that Rick will almost certainly defeat the CRM because He is there and everywhere he goes falls apart very shortly after
Historically speaking, totalitarian regimes never seem to last as long as their more democratic counterparts. Not sure if there was ever more to what Machiavelli meant about being feared rather than loved because I haven't looked into it too deeply but humanity's entire political legacy has proven such a system is always short-lived simply because oppressively ruling a hateful population is ultimately self-destructive and inevitably leads to some form of insurrection. Negan's society was TWD's greatest example of that.
Your just ignorant of historical context. Empires lasted way longer then any democracy ever has. Pretending because a few fell to democratic intervention. I don't remember seeing any fall without intervention from the outside. They don't magically fall or don't last. Most democracies and Republics in history have fallen into monarchies.
@@linaskranauskas Those are all short lived regimes compared to the US, though comparing the 1st world to the 2nd world and former Soviet states isn't exactly fair due to the disparity of wealth.
@@linaskranauskas The Spanish francoist regime collapsed when franco died, lmfao. Cuba is far from totalitarian, and Russia also... is about 30 years old. North Korea is on it's death bed and the only thing stopping it's demise is it's nuclear weapons. Belarus is also 30 years old. These pale in comparison to almost all modern democratic states, which are significantly more stable than any of these. The reasons why is like weight. If the weight of a structure is distributed evenly, then one shake-up to one part of the structure wont knock it down. If all the weight is concentrated in the middle, then a shove will cause the whole structure to come crumbling down. A democratic society survives because everyone sees themselves not just within society, but as the society. There will always be someone to take someone else's place, because the systems are more important than the people.
Groups like The Saviors would be exactly the type of people you could expect to encounter during an apocalyptic scenario. Women, alcohol, guns & bullets would become the new currency and to acquire those, the strong would definitely prey on the weak...which is why you would have to be prepared to kill without hesitation if they have crossed your path...especially if you were dug in and not constantly on the move...
The governor sh00ting his own people was just as shocking as what Negan did, but more disturbing. They just questioned the governor, they didn’t do anything to him. Negan was getting revenge and squashing the potential disturbance to his delicate system. it was just his methods that were disgusting.
@@BigWilmson To himself, yeah. To others? No. He didn’t lie to his men. They knew what they signed up for. He didn’t lie to his wives. They were free to go and work like any other women, for points. They also knew what they have to do if they remain his wives. But they chose to stay. He didn’t lie to the communities. They knew that they will be there every single week and take their supplies and if there is not enough, someone dies. Correction, he did lie about one thing. He didn’t gave jacksht to the communities for their supplies other than not killing one of them, while promising them protection. That’s still not “lying 24/7”.
@@BB-ed4om Do you even know army works? Desertion = punishment esspecialy in battlefield, you can be seriosly sued or shot. They enlisted to fight for revenge which they wanted (3x9), Governor prob. thought okay ppl gonna help me, but didn't expect them chickening out first, which was very frustrating to be atleast, it's just not the way you fight. Negan just shot 15 of his most experienced ppl and didn't even quiestion them like Governor.
People love to bring up the satellite attack to say that Rick's people attacked first as if it proves anything, even though the Saviors were slave owners AND were the ones who actually attacked first. By the logic of Negan defenders, Rick also attacked Terminus first, but no one ever talks about that.
I think no one brings Terminus up because the Terminus bunch, whatever their reason, had turned to cannibalism and thus were no different than the Dead. For all the sh*t Negan and his bunch did that was one line they didn’t cross
The problem is that Rick and his group didn't do it for the greater good to take out Negan and the outpost. It was for an exchange of goods between Alexandria and the hilltop.
Thank you so much! for being the one to finally make a video about this. I could never stand(& still can’t stand) the people who defend his actions during this time in the show. He was clearly the villain, plain & simple. When you break down post savior Negan, can you make sure to specifically include- Michonne’s scenes with him in 9x12 & 9x16 Aaron’s confrontation with him in 10x3 What he says before he gets his reward from Alpha in 10x9 The opening & ending of 10x17 Everything in 10x22 Maggie’s scenes/confrontation’s with him in 11x1, 11x2, 11x3, 11x7, & 11x9 Ezekiel’s scenes with him in 11x21 & 11x22 Everything in Dead City I’m sure you’d cover everything else in between.
I appreciate the episode stamps. It’s gonna make my life easier. But yea, I was sorta growing tired of how people defended the indefensible. Yes, he’s a great character who’s fun to watch - but he was wrong.
I very much agree too, it’s both very sad and very scary that we have to explain why these villains are villains 😂 I feel like people desperately want to side with villains to sound cool and edgy
In our society, people will do mental gymnastics to defend forgiving an attractive person who commits even the most heinous of crimes. This is the situation we see with the Negan of the tv series (comic book Negan wasn't cute). Jeffrey Dean Morgan brings striking good looks, a sense of humour, and a dash of charisma to the role that is an unforgivable villain. The writers don't even have to work too hard on his redemption arc because fans were so eager to forgive him. If you don't believe me, just imagine Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem in No Country For Old Men) in the role. Nobody wants to forgive an unattractive sociopath.
@@Dongdaemun_27 yea and my thing is, people in this comment section will go above and beyond to defend negan and try and compare rick and negan, but where is this same effort for the governor? The claimers? The cannibals? Nothing, just negan, very coincidental since negan is the most entertaining and charismatic one.
Honestly the fact that he lived as long as he did in the series is one of the most unbelievable parts of the show. In reality he would have been killed off long before he was introduced in the show and likely by one of his own men or his “wives”. He has to sleep some time and he doesn’t make all his own food so he would have gotten stabbed while sleeping or just poisoned with how he treated his own people
@@Thegoat36-sg5iyexcept when he takes thrm. How did thr other wives stop the new addition from killing him before he indoctrinated them? For as vicious as he was, his underlings were worse. How did three chimps each two thirds as mean as him never tear him apart? And then seven chimps two thirds as mean as the first three do the same- on and on all the way down? Negan's pirate empire somehow being stable despite attracting all of the most villanous people in the region strikes me as absurd.
I think part of what makes Negan so interesting is his “goal” of bringing “civilization” back after the walkers. I think the most interesting thing about a post apocalyptic story is how humanity tries to rebuild and organize into new societies
I view it as what Daryl said to Jesus when he was escaping the sanctuary, “it’s not about getting by here, it’s about getting it all” the saviors were greedy, they chose to “survive” this way and they got their karma, great video dude and your points are really good!
@@petergust3607He means, as a villain it's just the same old shit, kill to steal resources. Nothing new besides new toys new danger, same threat of being killed and robbed.
This is the very first time I've ever seen/heard someone mention Negan as the sexual predator that he was. When Negan saved Sasha from bring raped, I couldn't understand his moral stance in that situation, considering he did everything to his "wives", except for hold them down. I'm 41 and since the age of 14, I've been raped six times, three of which, without them having to hold me down. The fear of death or greater injury to myself, is more than enough to hold me down and take what's happening. For all intents and purposes, Negan was a serial rapist. And I greatly and sincerely appreciate you saying it❤❤❤God bless you!
Really good analysis here Captain, a very overlooked subject and some very good points made. Great video as always, looking forward to more content like this 👍
I agree with you 100%. Why do some people not understand that it didn't take much for Rick and our group to put 2 and 2 together with the situation between Daryl, Sasha and Abraham and the saviours to know the saviours were going to be an enemy group, and after everything they had already been through they couldn't take any chances. Also another thing nobody seems to think of, is that when Carol was leaving Alexandria, she bumped into a group from the saviours and they told her they were heading to Alexandria and that they would have to kill one of them straight away. This was before the saviours knew anything about Rick and our group being the ones that took out their outpost or what Daryl did to the bikers, which clarified that the were going to find Alexandria all along. The reason I bring this up is because some people say the saviours might not have found Alexandria and we all know that's bullshit tbh, as the saviours were always out looking for other communities to take over and slave. Sorry for going on but this Negan stuff gets me frustrated tbh 😂 oh and you've got a new subscriber 👍
@@deckzone3000 No they didn't, imo if the saviours knew at that time it was Alexandria that took out their outpost, Negan would have sent a much bigger group or more than likely gone himself.
Agree, eventually the saviors would have found alexandria. Now I do believe though that gregory and possible other hillside members were giving info on alexandrea. They knew too much.
Not only that but people forget about episode 6x6 when the saviors who were looking for Dwight ran Abraham, Daryl and Sasha off the road and that's when Daryl met Dwight and he told them all about who the saviors were. Then after Dwight robbed Daryl, Daryl Met back up with Abe and Sasha and that's when little Timmy and the dick brigade ambushed them. And then at the hilltop they witnessed Ethan stab Gregory because the saviors had his brother and wanted Gregory's head. That's when they made the deal to take out the outpost
Thank you for making this video. I hate it when people call rick the villain for helping a group of farmers against their tyrannical leader, it's like we watched 2 different shows.
@@larrygoode702and I hope Negan’s eventual death is as gloriously brutal as the death he gave Glenn and Abraham. Seriously f*ck Negan with the business end of Lucille 😤😤😤
@@larrygoode702Hell, Im looking forward to Deadcity somehow giving us some interaxtion between negan and rick, at the least mention them seeing each other after years
Any leader that can come to power and lead that many people no matter how bad of a leader deserves some admiration, thats not an easy feat and good leaders can still learn from them
Something I would LOVE that we would never get. Id love to have the Rick Daryl and Michonne reunite. But id LOVE to listen to podcasts on these characters going over what they been through the 6-8 years
@@shhh5743 lol no no no maybe i didnt explain it right. Im saying like within the show. The conversations and stories they would have catching up on where theyve been the past years. Like conversation in TWD world not real world. Like to hear Daryl explain to Rick the whisperes..explain to him about the variants…Michonne telling Rick about his som
People seem to forget that the satellite station wasn’t some random act of violence from Ricks group. The saviors were extorting Hilltop, threatening violence if Hilltop didn’t hand over their shit. Rick didn’t force people to live below the leaders with none of the amenities. He didn’t take multiple sex slave wives, he didn’t try to subjugate innocent communities. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.
@@LUCKO2022 strength is in numbers when society collapses. Acquiring capital, resources needed to survive, and ways to defend those two (guns/ammo) are of the utmost importance. to say that you have to rape murder and subjugate is disgusting. its clear you dont know how a group works
@@LUCKO2022Yeah sure, making more and more enemies at every turns is a very smart strategy. Especially when and if you got ruthless to the wrong people.
No. Lol. I get people like him as he is an entertaining charismatic character, but look at it fr and he is a bandit leader who stole from weaker settlements to feed himself and also stole wives - and YES he stole/ kidnapped them as they were 'given' through fear of torture or worse. He is vile. Entertaining sure, but vile. His redemption arc was awesome tho.
I don’t believe he will ever be redeemed objectively, he has done some heinous stuff that doesn’t go away, that said his red dead redemption is going good and is well written
@@enriqueperezarce5485he is redeemed having communities provide you supplies once a week and having multiple wives doesn’t make you the devil. Rick has also done some heinous stuff so that mean he can’t be redeemed as well
@@Thegoat36-sg5iy Oh no he has done way worse stuff but it’s list is long, Rick has done bad before but he is more of a lawfully evil, then a chaotic evil. Rick always had a very good reason which was protecting his loved ones
@@enriqueperezarce5485 rick had psychotic moments but it’s ok but as soon as negan do it’s not like when he killed those saviors who was helping him and Morgan but let the roles be reversed and it’s negan and Simon and people from Alexandria then that’ll be another thing on y’all list of why y’all don’t like negan
Oh please, Rick bashed, then took over every community he and his group was invited into. He was no different than Negan except Negan kept the Sanctuary going where every community now taken over by Rick fell apart.
@@MarkRosendorfNegans was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode and Rick was the match, once a group was able to defy him it was over all that resentment and hate will come back up toppling it down
@@MarkRosendorfrick showed Alexandria how to survive, AARON AND TOBIN thanked him for it. Not Rick’s fault when by the time the apocalypse was at Alexandria’s Doorstep the people who didn’t listen to Rick died. Woodbury was not his fault as they took two of their own, And the Governor was a psychopath. Michonne should not have Killed his Dead Daughter because that’s what really set him over the edge. I’m confused like what are you getting at to where Rick was like Negan. The Hilltop is possibly the only argument you could have and even then Gregory was a HORRIBLE leader. When Maggie took over the Hilltop literally became bigger and could support more people. I’m confused as what you mean dude, Rick and Negan are different.
Bad Negan reminds me a lot of myself during traumatic times of pure survival, obviously not in the physicality or acts but this replacement of the individual with another, with an act, with a mask, someone else to take over, someone better at surviving, ive had gripes with the show over the years but they still do good work in showing interesting psychology
It's very grimdark feeling when you consider Negan, a true villain, got a redemption arc while Shane died a monster lol. Good stuff, keeps your world grounded.
The Walking Dead was in the first year; a class available at Stanford University on Social Breakdowns. It was based on a study by the University, so I was lead to believe. Perhaps not. Still it is an interesting endeavor to see the fail of a Civilization and how people live through that loss until stability is reached.
THANK YOU for bringing up Negan's wives. I feel like no one ever mentions them and just talks about him being "redeemed" after kiling Glenn. Negan will never be redeemable to me because of his wives.
This is definitely a heavy topic (in a good way) to discuss and give us a good reminder how things aren't always as grey as it seems. Too often, things are almost explicitly black and white that we as people should know what's truly right from wrong. It's the old saying unfortunately also how with people in general, history can and will repeat itself. At least Neagan was able to atone for what he's done, but there's a good bit of people (real life and fiction) who unfortunately can't/aren't able to. Kudos on this vid and can't wait to see what you do next between these discussions and Project Zomboid
People loved rick and respected him that's why when everyone one thought rick is dead Daryl was looking for him for 5 years to give him proper funeral people can risk there life to save rick and his kids coz his a true leader who respect others and treat them as his equal nobody do that for negan
There’s a massive differentiation between being a “successful” leader and a “good” leader. Negan was a successful leader and as long as he always remained stronger than the communities under his rule, the saviours were never “doomed to fail”. It’d be like saying that Kim Jon Un isn’t a successful leader just because the people of North Korea don’t live the best lives, sure he’s not a “good” or morally ethical leader but he’s a successful leader despite his methods. The same goes for Negan.
Anyone still disputing this let me ask you this, in terminus when Rick realized something was VERY WRONG and held the guy at gunpoint what did his people do? Had his back even if they didn't quite yet realize the severity of the situation or even that anything was wrong. People willingly follow Rick because he has proven himself and wait for it... TRUST him in a fucking apocalypse. Many may depend on someone like negan but they sure as hell don't trust him. That's all i gotta say about it especially as a woman and mother of a pretty young girl AND strong young man. I would not wish this on my own children even if it ensured their survival, would you? Possibly being a sex slave to a dictator, and possibly having to hunt and kill innocent even unarmed people would destroy my kids they'll tell you they prefer death which again I would of course want them to survive but at what cost? Is that truly living or being dead inside while your body continues to draw breath in order to be exploited? Let that sink in and let me know. It's really up to the individual if that's what you'd want for yourself fine with me but they're still always be smarter, stronger, more organized than you in the long run. Of most likely stick it out in order to try and protect my loved ones mainly the kids the only ones I'm truly responsible for I'd offer myself up as a wife/ sex slave, assassin, whatever he needed but again i still wouldn't fucking trust him to not go back on his word.
That was an amazing comment, I’m so sick of people looking at what negan did as a “way of survival” it’s like what you said it’s all about trust. There’s a clear difference between rick and negan, it’s trust and leadership, and if people don’t see that they are 100% delusional and are ironically going to be the first people to go in an apocalypse m
This video is excellent from top to bottom. A great video to remind one of why bad guys are considered bad guys, no matter how charismatic they are and how much their might genuinely seems to imply that they are right.
Excellent video! I especially liked you discussing Negan compared to the Grimes group at the end. The people out there that act like Negan was justified, better than Rick, and merciful for only killing two people are annoying. They also say Rick is no better than Negan which is nuts, so it was nice to see eomeone else talking some sense!
How did you think 99 percent of civilization was built? Like Negan told Aaron, it's the story of america, the whole goddamn world. Negan did what his country and history taught him what worked
Yup, hes basicly a (proto)Feudal Lord. I always prefered him over Rick simply becouse Negan had a good shot at rebuilding Civilisation, Rick didnt even thought about that
@@ottersirotten4290 negan didn't want to build a civilization he was building one big castle for himself he wasn't thinking about all rebuild civilization stuff
@@kapriseedwards9687 exactly, negan and the saviors keep using the excuse “we’re trying to bring civilization back to this world” meanwhile they’re constantly getting off at bullying and taking mattresses and burning them. Dwight also emptied a whole water bottle right in front of rosita in season 7. So if the saviors are soooo helpful and good, why are they wasting water and mattresses? Because they’re greedy and all about power, these people are all cringe asf thinking that they’re actually doing good, they’re just as delusional as negan
@@kapriseedwards9687 Thinking critically all Negan had was military power. The Sanctuary is a horrible place to farm (even later seasons prove the Sanctuary is dependent on food imports in exchange for produced goods). The only option was constant raiding or conquering. If you leave tribes with weapons they will fight you over and over. There was no other option.
Great video man. Negan is my favorite character but it is very easy to be blinded by his charisma. Bad guy, not the worst guy in the context of there being an apocalypse, but definitely had😂. Anyways keep at it good content
you were right up till the end where you said Rick and the group attacked the saviours first because the people in the red car were saviours that attacked Daryl, Sasha and Abraham when they lead away the hoard from the wolves, then the bikers got them again and you could even count Dwight, Sherry and Wades group of Saviours too that all happened at the same time
Thank you, someone finally said it! Negan was a great villain but he most definitely was a villain. People always say how reasonable he was with the group when he enslaved them after brutally killing two members infront of them all, that’s not something a guy “in the morally right” does.
Ngl, this actually gave me more perspective than I had watching the show. I always thought Negan was only seen as the antagonist bc he was against Rick and I thought “if Negan was the protagonist and Rick was the antagonist, we’d see Negan as the good guy and Rick as evil” but now it’s pretty clear that Negan was genuinely worse than Rick. I’m glad I watched this
a new world order saying but was designed for negan, give me your shit or i will kill you. imagine if he was an even bigger leader say for the commonwealth or the CRM. he had all the right things to say and had the firepower to do it with. the only reason he lost, he got outsmarted by the group + the loss of use from eugene. such a great character with tons of charisma, the redeem story arc was by far his best. will def go down as one of the greatest anti-heroes in an apocalyptic tv series.
I haven't even watched too much of the show and I know that Negan in seasons 6-8 was just a horrible human being long before I watched this video. His jokes are good, yeah. And I didn't care for when he killed Spencer. But he wasn't just a joker, *he was still a dictator in the end.* Rick and the group had every right to go after Negan back in season 6, and continue their attacks after their enslavement.
Rick lead a small group that seemed to take over or ruin every safe spot they came across, negan managed a network of safe places. He was a tyrant but desperate time call for desprite actions. Rick and his crew would be seen as the bad guys if the show didn't follow them
@@joshuasworldtour484 No it just means "someone lost eventually, therefore unstable Leadership" is an remarkebly d*** Argument and its disproven by even a short look at History :D Heck! You even admit yourself that Rick has a hilariously bad Trek Record at leading Communitys, sure its iNaDvErTeNtLy but well... same S*** with every Communist System that ever existed, innit? Guess real Commu... ehm Rickism hasnt been tried yet
@@joshuasworldtour484 Well given how even the briefest look at History showes how redicliuosly wrong you are... its preety good Source^^ Nevermind that you even admitted Ricks very VERY poor Trek Record at leading Communitys :D
Thank you! I never saw the attack on the outpost as bad! People who like to claim that "they were the bad guys" in that episode, are delusional. It really was justified, and reasonable, For all the reasons you stated.
The first chance I got to kill Negan, I would do it without any hesitation. Plus, I never felt he ever redeemed himself. He had no choice to behave a little cause he had lost his whole group and if he had managed to get a whole new group together he would keep doing what he had been doing. I am very surprised he wasn't mobbed and brutally killed after all the things he did.
This is beautifully explained, and perfectly sums up my complicated feelings about Negan, and my.. less complicated feelings about people who defend the actions of Negan/the Saviors. lol
I don't think Negan redeemed himself. For this the first and most important step is to realize that what I did was wrong. Then I decide to become a better person and make up for my misdeeds. But Negan thinks that what he did was right.
By law cohesion in to sex is against the law. It’s similar to blackmail, for instance if you’re a manager, and you tell one of your female employees “have sex with me, and if you don’t, I’ll demote you and lower your pay”, it’s still considered rape by use of cohesion, and part of it has to do with the person being in a position of power. The county jail near me had lawsuits years ago because the guards were pressuring female inmates to have sex with them, by offering them things if they did, and treating them poorly if they didn’t, and they were all charged and convicted of rape.
Meryl and Simon should have switched spots . Meryl definitely would have fitted in with negan better and Simon would have been a ride or die with the governor
I mean at the end of the day, Negan’s method of leadership would never work to lead a regular society of people. His methods however could possibly be successful ruling over a group of criminals or people such as Simon, hell it would probably even save people as Negan said because it would have kept men like Simon, people who enjoy killing, in line. Regular sane civilians however, people with empathy and selflessness? No, not an effective form of leadership as eventually… a large group of people would rebel.
No. Saying Neegan is right is essentially advocating for a tryannical monarchy that rules through force alone. We settled this argument over 100 years ago and it resulted in the deaths of tens of millions.
Negan was a monster and I brook no nonsense about the show's redemption arc. Killing abraham and glen in the comics was shock value, demonstrated that he is a dangerous man gleefully revels in violence cruelty and tyranny. Glenn and Abraham were way bigger in the show than the comics. The show set Glen up as the setting's densest (and honestly humanity's final) concentration of light, life, love devotion mercy and humanity. When the show followed through with killing Glen it accidentally symbolically killed the world's chance of restoring its humanity. It finally demonstrated Rick's thesis, that the only difference between the living and the dead is that the former are more ambulatory. That kill, accidentally, allegorically meant the cycle of violence devouring everything will persist forever and there is no escape- only an endless hell of wrath. They couldn't not follow through but still, Negan was such an incredible blunder and the property never recovered from it.
17:10 There was NO sexual exploitation. Those women might have been pressured to become a wife, but it was ultimately up to them. Maybe the benefits outweighed the cons. Maybe they felt it was better to just 'go along with it'. But he didn't force them, as if they were sex-slaves. Negan killed his own trusted man, when that man decided to get fresh with a prisoner. Apparently, you don't understand just how much emphasis there was on 'the rules'. I didn't see any 'slavery'. I saw two classes of people. 'Trusted and untrusted'. If you were trusted, you were respected. Even those within his own camp were well on their way to becoming 'trusted members'... it was those in Oceanside, Hilltop, Kingdom, and Alexandria that were 'untrusted' outsiders. If I had to guess, Kingdom was probably next in line to become part of the Saviors, with King Ezekiel still in charge, but not having to 'provide'. Next might have been Hilltop, if they had gone through with killing Gregory as their 'final test'. Negan did have a council, maybe more like 'department heads' like you might find in a corporation. You want to talk about 'extreme social inequality', and tell me about the differences between the corporate officers, and the janitors/worker-bees. Tell me about the difference between someone busting their ass, and bringing home $1000 per week, and someone who is bringing home millions per year, just for sitting in an office between games of golf and trips to the Bahamas. "Social Darwinism" I had to look that up online just to try to figure out what you are even talking about... and No, that didn't think of themselves as 'superior' because of their race. They instead had the same kind of bravado, that one might find, if they were working for a nationally recognized corporation. "Despotism"... Really? You think the saviors were all despots? Or do you think that title alone goes to Negan himself? The man was trying to build something out of nothing. He not only had to lead, but to be the example... but in your mind, he was doing everything by himself? Did you even watch the show? "Pro-slavery" Name one 'slave master'. Name one 'slave'. You can't, because you made that up. Say it again, "People are a resource", now the way you say it, you make them out to be slaves. Eugene, a scientist, he can make bullets, and he can probably make 'other stuff'. That makes him 'resourceful'. The 'doctor' and his brother the 'doctor', they can fix people, cure sickness, that also makes them a resource. Got military training, hand-to-hand combat skills, do I need to say it... 'resourceful'. Everyone is, or can be 'resourceful' and hence, a 'resource'... not a slave. So spit that word out of your mouth. "Dehumanization"... wow, I can tell that you never served in the military. Because we were all 'dehumanized' in boot camp. We all had our heads shaved, treated like cattle, brain-washed, and told to 'follow orders without question'. That's how I can tell you never served. Because you look at the way Daryl was treated, and call that 'dehumanizing'. Let's face it. Daryl is a tough cookie. But if you could win him over, you could probably win over all of Rick's group without violence. Negan tried really hard with Daryl. If that mean breaking down his loyalty to Rick, then that was well worth the gamble. And let's not forget. Daryl broke ranks and actually punched Negan... That's how Negan knew that Daryl was willing to do the right thing, even if it was the 'wrong time' to do it. Now, step back, review the show and consider how things could have been different, if Rick had let Gregory die, and didn't attack the people at the satellite location. What if Rick and Negan had met on neutral ground, on fair terms, and just got to know each other. What if Rick's group agreed to cooperate with the Saviors, sure, there might have been some rough patches, but consider those colonies that resisted. Oceanside got their men wiped out, because they resisted. Hilltop lost their weapons because they fought back. Kingdom... I don't really know what the kingdom lost.. maybe they didn't resist. Alexandria... Didn't Carl pull a gun? Didn't Denise try to hide some food? Wasn't there some guns missing from the logbooks? Those mistakes only cost them some supplies and their mattresses. And Rick, was the most violent aggressor the Saviors encountered.
Thank you. People saw multiple wives and automatically jumped to some Hollywood Island bs. Like you pointed out negan blatantly says that he didn't force the wives, and that it was their choice to be with him rather than be part of the workers downstairs. If one day they decided they didn't want to be there anymore, they would find her a job, and she would be on her way. They say negan exploits people, but Rick's groups original plan at Alexandria was to take over. Their plan.. was to exploit them LOL People always want to jump to whatever team is assigned as the good guys whether it be reckon them. Or bear with me bringing up a different show game of thrones with the starks. A lot of people just jump on team Stark cuz they have honor, meanwhile most people in real life don't have honor, and they themselves are more like freys.
Dude, coercion is still sexual exploitation. Especially in the case where it's sleep with me and you'll get your medicine or whatever it is that you need. The "choice" they have is sleep with him or die essentially. That by definition is still rape, sexual coercion, and incredibly fucked up.
If someone threatens a woman to shoot her husband if she wont have sex with him, this is obviously rape and sex-slavery. The reason why he would shoot the husband is completely irrelevant for this. If the US-president would offer a woman to pardon her husband from death penalty, if she has sex with him, this is rape. And this is what Negan did.
I remember seeing many men saying this when those episodes aired, and it was clear most don’t truly understand what rape/sexual assault is.. The main , and most important part of rape “force, coercion, ~~abuse of authority~~~ against a person who is incapable of giving valid consent”.. Going along out of fear is mental coercion, something far greater than physical force , it’s not true consent. Until our society gets a clue sexual assault will always be a huge problem.
@@onlyalisaawilliams I agree, Negan did use his influence to put a woman between a rock and a hard place, as a means of intimidation to get what he wanted. But, he did that with men too. He forced Rick to cut off Carl's arm, threatened to pull out his other eye, and feed it to Rick, if he didn't. When faced with that choice, it was only when Rick broke down into tears (and the snot bubble), that Negan pulled his 'power play'. Only in that situation, I really don't think that Rick had any other choice. When Rick finally resolved himself that the only way to save anyone's life, was to cut off Carl's arm... that was the final straw that Negan wanted. Now we don't know each and every situation behind each of Negan's wives. It could very well be, that a lot of people were going to go through a whole lot of pain, if they didn't 'marry' him. All we know is that his 'harem' wanted him dead. I think that this was Negan 'making rules' and then 'justifying himself' for breaking the rules. I agree, it was completely wrong of him to do this... and it was worse, that no one stood up, and called him out for it. I think in his head, it was not just control over his harem, but control over everyone. Who would dare step up and object to him, even IF he were breaking his own rules.. And that's probably what pleased him more than any form of sexual actions with the women. I hope that is making sense. He left them an 'out', but probably like the kind of 'out' we might see in a Saw movie. There would be blood, there would be pain, and maybe there would be death, or maybe... maybe if someone had some king kong balls, and told him off, he might find some respect for that person. If he can't rule from a point of 'respect' then he'll rule from a point of 'fear'. Now here is what we do know of Negan. He didn't force every woman to marry him. He actually had several females in positions of authority. I don't know, maybe some of those women scared him deep down where a man doesn't want to admit it. But his wives were weak. So weak in fact, that they would rather give up their real husbands and sleep with the enemy. Now that, is a special kind of weak. So, yes, I do think that there was a difference. His wives were 'treated' well. At least a lot better than the scrubs and underlings that had to 'bow' in Negan's presence. If they had a want, they could just take, but they didn't, because they knew it was taking out of someone else's hand to do so. I don't think that it was ever really about sex to Negan, it was about power and control. Look at how long he put up with Simon, waiting on him to step up and become his right-hand man. Problem was, is that Simon did things his own way. People died, resources were squandered, and in the end, Simon challenged Negan to take his throne. Could you imagine what would happen if Simon was running that place? That! Is some scary shit. While it might have been a gilded cage, it was still a cage. But compare the saviors to the claimers... the Terminites... and the governor. I could give examples of what each of those groups could have done... but I think you have enough imagination. Don't let my praise of the saviors, leave you with the idea that I thought they were the 'best thing going'... not in the least. But between the Wolves, the Whisperers, or Rick's psychotic emotions... The saviors weren't nearly as bad.
I used to watch walking dead with it running in the background, after Negan came on screen i'd be glued to it I like to believe that negan came into power because of just constant fighting/infighting.
![Best of Negan 2 [TWD]](/img/n.gif)
For those of you who’d like to see more Walking Dead content, or content tackling ethical topics in zombie media, please like, share and subscribe. Also, please consider becoming a channel member. Unlike my gaming content, videos like these tend to get demonetized due to the footage I’m using. Anyways, thanks for all your kind words and I’m looking forward to further engaging with you all in other videos.
Did an Ai write and narrate the analysis of this video?
@@MrBuketmanNo… lol tf gives you that impression?
Did you possibly tease a video on the Governor at the end by chance? This video was put together and presented well, so I'd totally be down for more analysis videos like this.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldThis was thought provoking.
I think that guy was making a jab at your voice, but hell if I know.
Liked and subbed. Produce more content like this and you will grow. Doesn't have to be all walking dead related, you clearly have some knowledge on philosophy and literature(particularly pertaining to character development and symbolism) in my opinion anyway
@@TheRealCaptainGoldcan we get a what if negan won. I would like to hear how they would have dealt with the,the famine, the whispers and then the commonwealth
Negan, in my eyes, would be the most realistic individual that you may run across in a scenario such as TWD.
I’m inclined to agree.
@@TheRealCaptainGold I disagree. I think most likely a person would just kill you and take your stuff. Negan's way is dangerous. Ultimately, it invites revolution.
Same.
If anytbing I believe the wolves and claimed would take over
Thats how i see the claimers
“we are the saviors” feels like it’s a direct parallel to “we are the walking dead”
true
Feels a lot like "We are the Republican party."
"we are grounders"
"We're with the Church, we offer salvation." Alot of parallels there
But you could say the same for the whisperers lol
If this hasn't already been mentioned: Negan when he originally took over Sanctuary said the people there were a "confederacy of assholes" and "gangs of animals". That would likely be the type of people who would realistically survive a zombie apocalypse. Negan's methods only works if you're dealing with savage survivalists who only understand fear/intimidation and refuse diplomacy. Negan's main flaw was treating everyone he met after that like those people. I kind of wished they would've shown how Sanctuary was before Negan took over for better context on why he treated them the way he did.
Dude I wished they would have explored preNegan sanctuary since he and simon talked about teaming up for a takeover and how they killed to previous asshole leader, the tease
If you didn't treat everyone you met like a confederacy of assholes then you would most definitely get exploited by the gang of animals you didn't profile correctly.
My Hobbesian mindset cannot comprehend any other outcome in a situation such as a Zombie Apocalypse.
@@Weltshmerz maybe will be mention as a flashback for dead city since negan probably has to be his old self on the island. Idk been awhile since i watched dead city.
Pretty sure he converted or killed those that were supposedly savages, so they wouldn't or couldn't survive an apocalypse long term since they have no rules what is acceptable and probably turned on each other constantly, also keeping in mind no social structure that Negan built into all his survivors by keeping them humanized to a certain degree
This is why I’m mixed on negans redemption mostly due to the fact that Jeffrey dean morgan plays him to perfection in every scene he’s in but the fact that I felt for him and his desire to change I just cannot excuse his past behavior and while killing Glenn normally would’ve been one thing but killing him brutally while bashing his brains out and mocking him and clearly finding pleasure in that just cannot be excused he did those things maybe he’s not that person anymore but he did those things and he will be know for those things until the day he dies
People thinking Rick was just as bad as Negan clearly didn’t watch the show or are being blinded by their fondness for the character’s charisma. Rick didn’t enslave people, didn’t have multiple wives he coerced into sexual relationships and he wasn’t opposed to a democratic process.
Everyone is like Rick attacked first so obviously negan is the victim. Rick attacked a bunch of raiders who were taking food and supplies from hilltop and had someone captive. And we learn later that the hilltops doctors brother was taken by the saviors
@@jeremyscungio16 He also purely didnt attack first. I hate people who say this. The saviors attacked Daryl, Sasha and Abraham first. Then jesus said the saviors came to the hilltop and took their shit and then killed a 14 year old kid just because.
@victornieves1794did you even read his response?
Rick did oppose democracy. The iconic line "this isn't a democracy anymore" from season 2 carried all the way until season 4. Rick also was willing to kill the Alexandrans "How many of you do I need to kill before you learn?" Quote is talking to them. He turns into shane only to be humbled by negan. Rick and Co attacked negan on the word of people he just met. This was done so they could trade. He wasn't concerned with who was in the right or wrong. He killed an entire Outpost on a deal.
All this is to say people shouldn't agree with negan but acting as if Rick was better is not accurate. Let's also not forget his betrayl and execution of saviors during the war. They freed him and wanted to join him they were just scared and as he said "I lied" last thing is negan is the same coin as Rick just amped up a few notches
he didnt oppose democracy, he was just tired of everyones shit and wanted em to shut up or leave tired of them second guessing everything he did lol, hes the only dictator to give power back to the people and they gave it back to him ....
your right he was willing to kill Alexandrians and take the place over, he did snap a bit and mirror shane from the barn scene, again this just seemed cuz he was tired of everyones shit playing pretend like they were at woodbury, but he never ended up killing anyone like that or took the place over by force, which shane was clearly down with, he came back from the snap like he always does...
im sure rick and co wouldnt do such an attack on a group without doing necessary recon, which they did, but even without that, they had already encountered the group they were talking about and knew about them, and once they learned more, like them taking joy in killin kids, theres not much more to talk about for an ex cop, the story checked out with what daryl, abe and sasha went thru -- the stabbing and story of the situation was enough to get a clear picture, and rick was right, the saviors would have found them eventually
ricks decisions are always out of self defense or survival, he never takes pleasure in doing the bad stuff(unless its revenge), thats the difference i would say, you can argue ricks not the good guy anymore, hes says so himself, but to say he and negan are the same just a few notches amped up i wouldnt say is correct at all - if everyone was chill, rick would be chill, if everyone was chill, negan would come in and steal their shit
@@Indigoyowl
Negan was right about picking long blunt as his weapon)
Spears are a good back up though.
Rick as his opposite picked axes as his main
Damn right long blunt for life
what about the legendary red machete?@@ugniuszavadskis9658
kills glenn
+1 long blunt
Fear works until you leave the room. Respect last long after you're gone.
I think quite the opposite
I think that's opposite
@@susanne25262No it isn’t. Their are very few exceptions like Stalin, and even then that’s because he led the Soviet Union in WW2. Literally the only reason
@@enriqueperezarce5485 do not disrespect comrade Stalin
@@enriqueperezarce5485no it is "literally" not, there was a huge myriad of factors.
Negan used what was at one point considered to be a sound military tactic, a.k.a decimation, you kill one of every 10 soldiers and the rest will fall in line, if you're trully fucked you'll force them to chose who dies and then have one of them do the killing, so it could be way waay worse. My fav chapter of WWZ depicts the Russian army doing that to deal with "discontent" and the effects it had on soldiers and officers.
Negan planned to take his batting routine down to precisely this new low of depravity when he forcefully reclaimed Alexandria.
The decimation. That chapter was rough. WWZ was such a damn good book. The movie was atrocious
indeed, tho as teh writer said, it was just somebody else's story, nothing to do with his book@@riznix9237
Romans did it too.
Decimatio was an extremely rare punishment during the height of the Republic/Empire, reserved for cowardice in battle and mutiny.
Negan was so brutal, whether for good or for evil, just brutal. That's why his character was so good. Throw in the gross humor and there you go.
He’s a top tier antagonist. No doubt.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldI think you fail to realize that negan was dealing with a bunch of lying back stabbing terrible people. The people that actually survived in the wild and made the society function were ex prisoner biker gang types. They were a basic organization and rules for killers by killers.
@@Rays_Bad_Decisions😂🫵
"Negan and the Saviors in TWD actually represent the government. The communities affiliated with them usually carry light close-range weapons, which indicates that there is no significant walker threat or threat from other communities. This means the Saviors act like the police in the state to protect from internal unrest and the military to protect from walkers. They also prevent theft. For example, Negan's officer with the burned face had previously attempted to steal all the insulin supplies of the community in the previous season. It is not known if anyone died in the Savior camp due to this medication theft, but it is believed that a few people died in the effort to capture him.
In reality, if one considers a situation where police officers die while catching someone who embezzles the country's medication stocks, and even patient losses occur, the punishment he received is very minimal, as he was immediately released. Yes, he lost his relationship and was partially disabled, but he only suffered a cosmetic injury with no permanent disability. In some countries, the punishment for such major crimes is death or life imprisonment.
Rick and his group first blew up nearly 10 motorcycle patrol members of the Saviors with a rocket launcher. Then, under the influence of a drunken town leader, they conducted a night raid on a soldier/police station and killed nearly 30 adult combatants in their sleep. Many states would classify this as a terrorist act and eliminate the perpetrators wherever they are found. Despite this, Negan and his group killed only 2 of the approximately 10 members of Rick's group. It should be remembered that in a world with such problems, building prisons and feeding criminals for life is not feasible.
Negan's officers, like in any state, engage in corrupt or overly dictatorial behavior. Therefore, Negan and the Saviors represent the fairest state-like system that can exist in a city that has experienced an emergency situation like an earthquake.
And as a result, Rick and his group caused the deaths of about 40 of Negan's men initially, then crippled hundreds of his adult combat-ready men with faulty bullets, and caused the deaths of hundreds of people and one tiger in the civil war they initiated. The survivors became easy targets for another group like the Whisperers. Thus, because Rick under the orders of the drunken leader where he switched sides mid-season and killed by rick's group, they ended a potential alliance that could have genuinely transformed into a state."
@@broderin9741I haven’t watched twd and don’t know anything about Negan but it seems like you have a valid point. Some countries even execute drugdealers just because the potential harm it causes their citizens. In a world like twd where everything is back to the wild west, someone should take order. An interesting topic nontheless
I saw Kirkman say we would feel for Negan if we had followed his story from the beginning. Negan became the thing that happens to people. Any higher morals were long forgotten.
Not sure that the back story we were actually shown fully supports that. The brutality was the result of what he encountered in the apocalypse, but he was quite the asshole before anyone rose from the dead.
No Negan was just evil. He became who he always was.
@@dawsondudark Yeah, to hell with any nuance of people changing because of fraumatic events, and the world changing. This must mean Rick ALWAYS wanted to kill people in cold blood!
@@therobustempyrean1436 just means he was capable. Probably why he became a deputy. But there’s a difference between Rick killing ppl who were or stood with the slaughtering of children vs the ppl who were or stood with the slaughtering of children 😂
People respect strength but the thing about about strong arming the top spot is there will always be another person stronger coming along
They respect but some strive to become stronger.
Alexander The Great was a fantastic example of how leading with strength only lasts one generation of leadership. He was unstoppable, but on his deathbed when they asked him who should succeed him to carry on his work, his response was: ''The strongest.'' This led to a huge power vacuum where every one of his generals tried proving themselves as such, and it basically all fell apart because of that.
This is why it's been generally accepted not to have the strongest lead, but to have the overall most capable lead.
Better than being weak and stepped on leader until your eventual murder for a power struggle. It's a zombie apocalypse resources are thin having a democratic rule is a luxury for a stable economy.
Makes you wonder what would have happened had the Saviors been made to face off against the Commonwealth or the CRM.
i think that's the problem. people respect strength more than morality. more than intelligence and definitely more than maturity. that's why some idiots think negan was right. that's why people worship andrew bait. that's why people worship soldier boy.
Negan is the clear representation of what a survivor in an apocalypse would be like
"Negan and the Saviors in TWD actually represent the government. The communities affiliated with them usually carry light close-range weapons, which indicates that there is no significant walker threat or threat from other communities. This means the Saviors act like the police in the state to protect from internal unrest and the military to protect from walkers. They also prevent theft. For example, Negan's officer with the burned face had previously attempted to steal all the insulin supplies of the community in the previous season. It is not known if anyone died in the Savior camp due to this medication theft, but it is believed that a few people died in the effort to capture him.
In reality, if one considers a situation where police officers die while catching someone who embezzles the country's medication stocks, and even patient losses occur, the punishment he received is very minimal, as he was immediately released. Yes, he lost his relationship and was partially disabled, but he only suffered a cosmetic injury with no permanent disability. In some countries, the punishment for such major crimes is death or life imprisonment.
Rick and his group first blew up nearly 10 motorcycle patrol members of the Saviors with a rocket launcher. Then, under the influence of a drunken town leader, they conducted a night raid on a soldier/police station and killed nearly 30 adult combatants in their sleep. Many states would classify this as a terrorist act and eliminate the perpetrators wherever they are found. Despite this, Negan and his group killed only 2 of the approximately 10 members of Rick's group. It should be remembered that in a world with such problems, building prisons and feeding criminals for life is not feasible.
Negan's officers, like in any state, engage in corrupt or overly dictatorial behavior. Therefore, Negan and the Saviors represent the fairest state-like system that can exist in a city that has experienced an emergency situation like an earthquake.
And as a result, Rick and his group caused the deaths of about 40 of Negan's men initially, then crippled hundreds of his adult combat-ready men with faulty bullets, and caused the deaths of hundreds of people and one tiger in the civil war they initiated. The survivors became easy targets for another group like the Whisperers. Thus, because Rick under the orders of the drunken leader where he switched sides mid-season and killed by rick's group, they ended a potential alliance that could have genuinely transformed into a state."
I mean, they all are.
A psychotic one.
@@JonO387 when it comes down to the nitty gritty and life and death of the people you care about we’d all be insane
There you go! That's exactly right!!
It’s both hilarious and disturbing that some Negan fans genuinely believe his relationship with his wives is 100% consensual.
Maybe not all of them. But negan doesn't make them stay as his wives. The women are just lazy and don't want to leave due to having to work and not having the luxuries of being his wife.
@@BigBillsBadDealslazy because they don’t want to do back breaking labor? Negan literally said to Daryl that one of the options was to become a worker working for points but he was going to wish he was dead
@@BigBillsBadDeals you utter donk actually outed yourself. Incredible. You people are just inferior.
@@BigBillsBadDealsso pretty much strong arming them into a relationship. Totally consensual and not at all manipulating :)
@@BigBillsBadDealslocated the person to avoid during an apocalypse.
The whole purpose of "Here's Negan." Was to show that Rick could have easily turned out like Negan after Lori died. The only reason he didn't is because Rick had people to keep him grounded. Negan had no one, and that's what sent him down a dark path.
I find The Governor and Negan interesting because we only know them by their alias. Negan was interesting because it was an alias all the saviors used and not a real name.
Kirkman ruined their characters by totally revealing their backstories and revealing their names. Negan’s relationship with his bat “Lucille” and The Governor’s relationship with his zombie daughter was already good enough to tell they are broken because they lost loved ones.
@@petermj1098 That wasn't his daughter
Unlikely. Rick's personality is completely different. Her is cruel to protect those he loves. Negan loves no one, he is cruel because he enjoys it or to achieve power.
I don’t ricks friends were the reason he didn’t go crazy, he’s just mentally stronger than negan and the governor
I feel like people rely way too much on the satellite station event as a way to argue that ricks group did something to deserve what happened. Those people are the satellite we're still negans soldiers and still were evil as all hell. They had pictures of smashed heads hanging over their beds like some happy memories scrap book. Just because they were asleep doesn't mean anything. If they were awake that would've made a difference? No. They were still evil and got what was coming. Let's also not forget that if the saviors found out about Alexandria's existence it would've only been a matter of time before they came knocking and we would've ended up in the same place we ultimately did anyway.
Tell me in every season in every place and community Rick's group comes across they ruin and utterly destroy them. Sure Rick is good on his people, but to others? Hell nah they get burnt on a cross.
@@bigdot2355 lol very true. The other day I made the joke that Rick will almost certainly defeat the CRM because He is there and everywhere he goes falls apart very shortly after
@@pyroAdapthe def can't defeat CRM
Those pictures were warnings. Dont cross Negan Saviors.
People act as though they wouldn't do the same....cuz if they didn't they'd be dead....
Historically speaking, totalitarian regimes never seem to last as long as their more democratic counterparts. Not sure if there was ever more to what Machiavelli meant about being feared rather than loved because I haven't looked into it too deeply but humanity's entire political legacy has proven such a system is always short-lived simply because oppressively ruling a hateful population is ultimately self-destructive and inevitably leads to some form of insurrection. Negan's society was TWD's greatest example of that.
North Korea, Russia, Belarus, Cuba, Spain after WWII are asking to hold their beer
Your just ignorant of historical context. Empires lasted way longer then any democracy ever has. Pretending because a few fell to democratic intervention. I don't remember seeing any fall without intervention from the outside. They don't magically fall or don't last. Most democracies and Republics in history have fallen into monarchies.
@@linaskranauskas Those are all short lived regimes compared to the US, though comparing the 1st world to the 2nd world and former Soviet states isn't exactly fair due to the disparity of wealth.
and the US is famous for wealth equality :) ok if they are short lived please reply when they end.@@greenbrickbox3392
@@linaskranauskas The Spanish francoist regime collapsed when franco died, lmfao. Cuba is far from totalitarian, and Russia also... is about 30 years old. North Korea is on it's death bed and the only thing stopping it's demise is it's nuclear weapons. Belarus is also 30 years old. These pale in comparison to almost all modern democratic states, which are significantly more stable than any of these.
The reasons why is like weight. If the weight of a structure is distributed evenly, then one shake-up to one part of the structure wont knock it down. If all the weight is concentrated in the middle, then a shove will cause the whole structure to come crumbling down. A democratic society survives because everyone sees themselves not just within society, but as the society. There will always be someone to take someone else's place, because the systems are more important than the people.
Groups like The Saviors would be exactly the type of people you could expect to encounter during an apocalyptic scenario. Women, alcohol, guns & bullets would become the new currency and to acquire those, the strong would definitely prey on the weak...which is why you would have to be prepared to kill without hesitation if they have crossed your path...especially if you were dug in and not constantly on the move...
Negan NEVER lied, unlike the Governor.
It was like skiing, the Governor just hoped from one lie to the next
Exact opposite
The governor sh00ting his own people was just as shocking as what Negan did, but more disturbing. They just questioned the governor, they didn’t do anything to him. Negan was getting revenge and squashing the potential disturbance to his delicate system. it was just his methods that were disgusting.
@@BigWilmson To himself, yeah. To others? No. He didn’t lie to his men. They knew what they signed up for. He didn’t lie to his wives. They were free to go and work like any other women, for points. They also knew what they have to do if they remain his wives. But they chose to stay. He didn’t lie to the communities. They knew that they will be there every single week and take their supplies and if there is not enough, someone dies.
Correction, he did lie about one thing. He didn’t gave jacksht to the communities for their supplies other than not killing one of them, while promising them protection. That’s still not “lying 24/7”.
@@BB-ed4om Do you even know army works? Desertion = punishment esspecialy in battlefield, you can be seriosly sued or shot.
They enlisted to fight for revenge which they wanted (3x9), Governor prob. thought okay ppl gonna help me, but didn't expect them chickening out first, which was very frustrating to be atleast, it's just not the way you fight. Negan just shot 15 of his most experienced ppl and didn't even quiestion them like Governor.
People love to bring up the satellite attack to say that Rick's people attacked first as if it proves anything, even though the Saviors were slave owners AND were the ones who actually attacked first. By the logic of Negan defenders, Rick also attacked Terminus first, but no one ever talks about that.
I think no one brings Terminus up because the Terminus bunch, whatever their reason, had turned to cannibalism and thus were no different than the Dead. For all the sh*t Negan and his bunch did that was one line they didn’t cross
The problem is that Rick and his group didn't do it for the greater good to take out Negan and the outpost. It was for an exchange of goods between Alexandria and the hilltop.
@@ZeonEons they were still doing Hilltop a favor so I don't see your point
@@SharpX0 Only If hilltop had the means to give something for the favor
@@ZeonEons ok?
To be fair a lot of the truely evil stuff that happend Simon did without negan knowing until later
That’s why I said his leadership brought out the worst in people. Simon was ultimately Negan’s responsibility, as he was his right hand man.
@TheRealCaptainGold totally true great video.
Thank you so much! for being the one to finally make a video about this. I could never stand(& still can’t stand) the people who defend his actions during this time in the show. He was clearly the villain, plain & simple.
When you break down post savior Negan, can you make sure to specifically include-
Michonne’s scenes with him in 9x12 & 9x16
Aaron’s confrontation with him in 10x3
What he says before he gets his reward from Alpha in 10x9
The opening & ending of 10x17
Everything in 10x22
Maggie’s scenes/confrontation’s with him in 11x1, 11x2, 11x3, 11x7, & 11x9
Ezekiel’s scenes with him in 11x21 & 11x22
Everything in Dead City
I’m sure you’d cover everything else in between.
I appreciate the episode stamps. It’s gonna make my life easier. But yea, I was sorta growing tired of how people defended the indefensible. Yes, he’s a great character who’s fun to watch - but he was wrong.
@@TheRealCaptainGold You’re welcome. I agree 100%.
I very much agree too, it’s both very sad and very scary that we have to explain why these villains are villains 😂 I feel like people desperately want to side with villains to sound cool and edgy
In our society, people will do mental gymnastics to defend forgiving an attractive person who commits even the most heinous of crimes.
This is the situation we see with the Negan of the tv series (comic book Negan wasn't cute). Jeffrey Dean Morgan brings striking good looks, a sense of humour, and a dash of charisma to the role that is an unforgivable villain. The writers don't even have to work too hard on his redemption arc because fans were so eager to forgive him.
If you don't believe me, just imagine Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem in No Country For Old Men) in the role. Nobody wants to forgive an unattractive sociopath.
@@Dongdaemun_27 yea and my thing is, people in this comment section will go above and beyond to defend negan and try and compare rick and negan, but where is this same effort for the governor? The claimers? The cannibals? Nothing, just negan, very coincidental since negan is the most entertaining and charismatic one.
Honestly the fact that he lived as long as he did in the series is one of the most unbelievable parts of the show. In reality he would have been killed off long before he was introduced in the show and likely by one of his own men or his “wives”. He has to sleep some time and he doesn’t make all his own food so he would have gotten stabbed while sleeping or just poisoned with how he treated his own people
You break a rule in his place you get punished that’s happens in real life too with gangs and negan never hurt his wives
@@Thegoat36-sg5iyexcept when he takes thrm. How did thr other wives stop the new addition from killing him before he indoctrinated them?
For as vicious as he was, his underlings were worse. How did three chimps each two thirds as mean as him never tear him apart? And then seven chimps two thirds as mean as the first three do the same- on and on all the way down?
Negan's pirate empire somehow being stable despite attracting all of the most villanous people in the region strikes me as absurd.
I think part of what makes Negan so interesting is his “goal” of bringing “civilization” back after the walkers. I think the most interesting thing about a post apocalyptic story is how humanity tries to rebuild and organize into new societies
I think Negan was one of the best characters. I also think he was a psychopathic monster, and hardly any actions pre-season 9 were justified.
If Negan is a psychopath then you have a god complex
Well he wasn't a psychopath cos he had empathy, standards, rules, emotions etc
Best bad guy ever
He would have had 0 compassion, sorrow or empathy if he were a psychopath!
I think Negan originally started off with good intentions but became blinded by greed and hunger for power along the way.
Perfectly said, negan has always been my favourite walking dead charector since the comics mainly because of his amazing redemption arc
I view it as what Daryl said to Jesus when he was escaping the sanctuary, “it’s not about getting by here, it’s about getting it all” the saviors were greedy, they chose to “survive” this way and they got their karma, great video dude and your points are really good!
Parallels between the saviors and the Crm a little eerie
Yeah the CRM is just way stronger
Crm is a whole other level of threat
@@petergust3607He means, as a villain it's just the same old shit, kill to steal resources. Nothing new besides new toys new danger, same threat of being killed and robbed.
This is the very first time I've ever seen/heard someone mention Negan as the sexual predator that he was. When Negan saved Sasha from bring raped, I couldn't understand his moral stance in that situation, considering he did everything to his "wives", except for hold them down. I'm 41 and since the age of 14, I've been raped six times, three of which, without them having to hold me down. The fear of death or greater injury to myself, is more than enough to hold me down and take what's happening. For all intents and purposes, Negan was a serial rapist. And I greatly and sincerely appreciate you saying it❤❤❤God bless you!
No one cares
Nobody cares about how many times it happened to you lol
@@Stigmezz Jesus, does this make you feel better?
Putting down someone for just giving context to their story.
@@xenomorphlad9895 it does make me feel warm inside
@@Stigmezz well, you do you ig
Rick just said that tonight on The Ones Who Live. "People are a resource."
Yeah but it kinda sounded like he was just being sarcastic/snarky. He also said "you're a hero with a shit haircut" in that same line.
Did Rick actually ever hear Negan say that
Really good analysis here Captain, a very overlooked subject and some very good points made. Great video as always, looking forward to more content like this 👍
Yes, Negan was a monster. But his many monologues were absolute comedy gold!
I agree with you 100%. Why do some people not understand that it didn't take much for Rick and our group to put 2 and 2 together with the situation between Daryl, Sasha and Abraham and the saviours to know the saviours were going to be an enemy group, and after everything they had already been through they couldn't take any chances.
Also another thing nobody seems to think of, is that when Carol was leaving Alexandria, she bumped into a group from the saviours and they told her they were heading to Alexandria and that they would have to kill one of them straight away. This was before the saviours knew anything about Rick and our group being the ones that took out their outpost or what Daryl did to the bikers, which clarified that the were going to find Alexandria all along.
The reason I bring this up is because some people say the saviours might not have found Alexandria and we all know that's bullshit tbh, as the saviours were always out looking for other communities to take over and slave. Sorry for going on but this Negan stuff gets me frustrated tbh 😂 oh and you've got a new subscriber 👍
When they ran into Carol, they already knew it was Alexandria that took out their outpost.
🎯@@deckzone3000
@@deckzone3000 No they didn't, imo if the saviours knew at that time it was Alexandria that took out their outpost, Negan would have sent a much bigger group or more than likely gone himself.
Agree, eventually the saviors would have found alexandria. Now I do believe though that gregory and possible other hillside members were giving info on alexandrea. They knew too much.
Not only that but people forget about episode 6x6 when the saviors who were looking for Dwight ran Abraham, Daryl and Sasha off the road and that's when Daryl met Dwight and he told them all about who the saviors were. Then after Dwight robbed Daryl, Daryl Met back up with Abe and Sasha and that's when little Timmy and the dick brigade ambushed them. And then at the hilltop they witnessed Ethan stab Gregory because the saviors had his brother and wanted Gregory's head. That's when they made the deal to take out the outpost
Thank you for making this video. I hate it when people call rick the villain for helping a group of farmers against their tyrannical leader, it's like we watched 2 different shows.
Yes
They also forget that negan's men already attacked sasha abraham and daryl first.
Awesome video! So much fun to just back into TWD
Can you do a video on why Negans redemption is worthy of respect, I would love to hear you talk about it. Great video overall
Just might. Thanks for the idea!
I really hope Rick finds out all of what Negan did while he was gone.
I was thinking the same thing
@@larrygoode702and I hope Negan’s eventual death is as gloriously brutal as the death he gave Glenn and Abraham. Seriously f*ck Negan with the business end of Lucille 😤😤😤
@@larrygoode702Hell, Im looking forward to Deadcity somehow giving us some interaxtion between negan and rick, at the least mention them seeing each other after years
Any leader that can come to power and lead that many people no matter how bad of a leader deserves some admiration, thats not an easy feat and good leaders can still learn from them
Something I would LOVE that we would never get. Id love to have the Rick Daryl and Michonne reunite. But id LOVE to listen to podcasts on these characters going over what they been through the 6-8 years
Jon bernthal (Shane) has one if yu haven’t seen it. He’s had Daryl n Lori on it. I don’t think he’s has anymore twd cast members on since tho
@@shhh5743 lol no no no maybe i didnt explain it right. Im saying like within the show. The conversations and stories they would have catching up on where theyve been the past years. Like conversation in TWD world not real world. Like to hear Daryl explain to Rick the whisperes..explain to him about the variants…Michonne telling Rick about his som
People seem to forget that the satellite station wasn’t some random act of violence from Ricks group. The saviors were extorting Hilltop, threatening violence if Hilltop didn’t hand over their shit.
Rick didn’t force people to live below the leaders with none of the amenities. He didn’t take multiple sex slave wives, he didn’t try to subjugate innocent communities.
This shouldn’t even be a discussion.
That is WHY you wouldn't survive the end of the world.
You have to be fucking ruthless to survive. Simple as that.
@@LUCKO2022 strength is in numbers when society collapses. Acquiring capital, resources needed to survive, and ways to defend those two (guns/ammo) are of the utmost importance.
to say that you have to rape murder and subjugate is disgusting. its clear you dont know how a group works
@@LUCKO2022Yeah sure, making more and more enemies at every turns is a very smart strategy. Especially when and if you got ruthless to the wrong people.
You should make a video about if the Saviors would survive a war with the whisperers. From the first contact to the clash between Negan and Alpha
No. Lol. I get people like him as he is an entertaining charismatic character, but look at it fr and he is a bandit leader who stole from weaker settlements to feed himself and also stole wives - and YES he stole/ kidnapped them as they were 'given' through fear of torture or worse. He is vile.
Entertaining sure, but vile.
His redemption arc was awesome tho.
I don’t believe he will ever be redeemed objectively, he has done some heinous stuff that doesn’t go away, that said his red dead redemption is going good and is well written
@@enriqueperezarce5485he is redeemed having communities provide you supplies once a week and having multiple wives doesn’t make you the devil. Rick has also done some heinous stuff so that mean he can’t be redeemed as well
@@Thegoat36-sg5iy Oh no he has done way worse stuff but it’s list is long, Rick has done bad before but he is more of a lawfully evil, then a chaotic evil. Rick always had a very good reason which was protecting his loved ones
@@enriqueperezarce5485 they both did bad things
@@enriqueperezarce5485 rick had psychotic moments but it’s ok but as soon as negan do it’s not like when he killed those saviors who was helping him and Morgan but let the roles be reversed and it’s negan and Simon and people from Alexandria then that’ll be another thing on y’all list of why y’all don’t like negan
Rick and Negan both killed people… but Negan made his people live for him, and Rick lived FOR his family
Oh please, Rick bashed, then took over every community he and his group was invited into. He was no different than Negan except Negan kept the Sanctuary going where every community now taken over by Rick fell apart.
@@MarkRosendorfNegans was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode and Rick was the match, once a group was able to defy him it was over all that resentment and hate will come back up toppling it down
@@enriqueperezarce5485That doesn't dispute what I said about Rick.
@@MarkRosendorfrick showed Alexandria how to survive, AARON AND TOBIN thanked him for it. Not Rick’s fault when by the time the apocalypse was at Alexandria’s Doorstep the people who didn’t listen to Rick died. Woodbury was not his fault as they took two of their own, And the Governor was a psychopath. Michonne should not have Killed his Dead Daughter because that’s what really set him over the edge. I’m confused like what are you getting at to where Rick was like Negan. The Hilltop is possibly the only argument you could have and even then Gregory was a HORRIBLE leader. When Maggie took over the Hilltop literally became bigger and could support more people. I’m confused as what you mean dude, Rick and Negan are different.
@@MarkRosendorfyou have the iq of a rock
"you want to proof .....again" Abe and Glen complete silence.
3:50 gives me goosebumps about the whole speech about People Are A Resource when i first watch it
Bad Negan reminds me a lot of myself during traumatic times of pure survival, obviously not in the physicality or acts but this replacement of the individual with another, with an act, with a mask, someone else to take over, someone better at surviving, ive had gripes with the show over the years but they still do good work in showing interesting psychology
This channel is about to blow up
This video is so underrated bro I was SHOCKED when I saw the likes and views you deserve a whole lot more bro amazing vid
It's very grimdark feeling when you consider Negan, a true villain, got a redemption arc while Shane died a monster lol. Good stuff, keeps your world grounded.
*granted someone like Negan couldn't have lasted long in this environment. Too many enemies
I can never get past the wives thing
Spoiler alert: polygamy is pretty common in both the human and animal worlds.
@@ZackFrisbee Not in the way Negan did it
@@ZackFrisbeeNope not the way Negan does it. Most polygamy involves you being able to support the wives and spend time with them.
That's one of the least evil things he did.
@@enriqueperezarce5485Unfortunately incorrect, there were harems with hundreds of women in them.
I love your character analysis of my very favorite show/story.
The Walking Dead was in the first year; a class available at Stanford University on Social Breakdowns. It was based on a study by the University, so I was lead to believe. Perhaps not. Still it is an interesting endeavor to see the fail of a Civilization and how people live through that loss until stability is reached.
16:53 That sound of Negan being choked, I believe it's the same sound effect from a video game called "Dishonored". Strange. Anybody else noticed?
oH GOD.... I'm not a Negan fan but democracy and rights fly right out the window when we are reduced to needing to survive in a tribal setting.
THANK YOU for bringing up Negan's wives. I feel like no one ever mentions them and just talks about him being "redeemed" after kiling Glenn. Negan will never be redeemable to me because of his wives.
This is definitely a heavy topic (in a good way) to discuss and give us a good reminder how things aren't always as grey as it seems. Too often, things are almost explicitly black and white that we as people should know what's truly right from wrong. It's the old saying unfortunately also how with people in general, history can and will repeat itself.
At least Neagan was able to atone for what he's done, but there's a good bit of people (real life and fiction) who unfortunately can't/aren't able to. Kudos on this vid and can't wait to see what you do next between these discussions and Project Zomboid
Good take, most if not every single conflict in twd is black and white. The only gray villain was dawn since she stood up against the evil cops
People loved rick and respected him that's why when everyone one thought rick is dead Daryl was looking for him for 5 years to give him proper funeral people can risk there life to save rick and his kids coz his a true leader who respect others and treat them as his equal nobody do that for negan
No matter what happened, Rick Grimes was the only leader the people deserved and needed💯
you know what Robert Kirkman might be trying to say the saviors are kinda like the government they take but never give
There’s a massive differentiation between being a “successful” leader and a “good” leader. Negan was a successful leader and as long as he always remained stronger than the communities under his rule, the saviours were never “doomed to fail”. It’d be like saying that Kim Jon Un isn’t a successful leader just because the people of North Korea don’t live the best lives, sure he’s not a “good” or morally ethical leader but he’s a successful leader despite his methods. The same goes for Negan.
Wrong. He was neither. And yes, he was doomed to fail.
I watch this video at least once a day. I have watched several videos break down negans character, but none have done it this well.
Anyone still disputing this let me ask you this, in terminus when Rick realized something was VERY WRONG and held the guy at gunpoint what did his people do? Had his back even if they didn't quite yet realize the severity of the situation or even that anything was wrong. People willingly follow Rick because he has proven himself and wait for it... TRUST him in a fucking apocalypse. Many may depend on someone like negan but they sure as hell don't trust him. That's all i gotta say about it especially as a woman and mother of a pretty young girl AND strong young man. I would not wish this on my own children even if it ensured their survival, would you? Possibly being a sex slave to a dictator, and possibly having to hunt and kill innocent even unarmed people would destroy my kids they'll tell you they prefer death which again I would of course want them to survive but at what cost? Is that truly living or being dead inside while your body continues to draw breath in order to be exploited? Let that sink in and let me know. It's really up to the individual if that's what you'd want for yourself fine with me but they're still always be smarter, stronger, more organized than you in the long run. Of most likely stick it out in order to try and protect my loved ones mainly the kids the only ones I'm truly responsible for I'd offer myself up as a wife/ sex slave, assassin, whatever he needed but again i still wouldn't fucking trust him to not go back on his word.
That was an amazing comment, I’m so sick of people looking at what negan did as a “way of survival” it’s like what you said it’s all about trust. There’s a clear difference between rick and negan, it’s trust and leadership, and if people don’t see that they are 100% delusional and are ironically going to be the first people to go in an apocalypse m
This video is excellent from top to bottom. A great video to remind one of why bad guys are considered bad guys, no matter how charismatic they are and how much their might genuinely seems to imply that they are right.
Rick ran the show, then Daryl ran the show, and at the end negan ran the show. So clearly all 3 were right with something
Shane should be there somewhere.
Excellent video! I especially liked you discussing Negan compared to the Grimes group at the end. The people out there that act like Negan was justified, better than Rick, and merciful for only killing two people are annoying. They also say Rick is no better than Negan which is nuts, so it was nice to see eomeone else talking some sense!
Negan would have had a bullet in his head so fast it was ridiculous.
Yeah
I could name so many times where people could’ve killed Negan it’s crazy
How did you think 99 percent of civilization was built? Like Negan told Aaron, it's the story of america, the whole goddamn world. Negan did what his country and history taught him what worked
Yup, hes basicly a (proto)Feudal Lord.
I always prefered him over Rick simply becouse Negan had a good shot at rebuilding Civilisation, Rick didnt even thought about that
@@ottersirotten4290 negan didn't want to build a civilization he was building one big castle for himself he wasn't thinking about all rebuild civilization stuff
@@kapriseedwards9687like medieval times kinda?
@@kapriseedwards9687 exactly, negan and the saviors keep using the excuse “we’re trying to bring civilization back to this world” meanwhile they’re constantly getting off at bullying and taking mattresses and burning them. Dwight also emptied a whole water bottle right in front of rosita in season 7. So if the saviors are soooo helpful and good, why are they wasting water and mattresses? Because they’re greedy and all about power, these people are all cringe asf thinking that they’re actually doing good, they’re just as delusional as negan
@@kapriseedwards9687
Thinking critically all Negan had was military power. The Sanctuary is a horrible place to farm (even later seasons prove the Sanctuary is dependent on food imports in exchange for produced goods).
The only option was constant raiding or conquering.
If you leave tribes with weapons they will fight you over and over.
There was no other option.
Great video man. Negan is my favorite character but it is very easy to be blinded by his charisma. Bad guy, not the worst guy in the context of there being an apocalypse, but definitely had😂. Anyways keep at it good content
Couldn’t agree more
you were right up till the end where you said Rick and the group attacked the saviours first because the people in the red car were saviours that attacked Daryl, Sasha and Abraham when they lead away the hoard from the wolves, then the bikers got them again and you could even count Dwight, Sherry and Wades group of Saviours too that all happened at the same time
Thank you, someone finally said it! Negan was a great villain but he most definitely was a villain. People always say how reasonable he was with the group when he enslaved them after brutally killing two members infront of them all, that’s not something a guy “in the morally right” does.
Rick brutally killing people in front of others before and made them get on their knees
Ngl, this actually gave me more perspective than I had watching the show. I always thought Negan was only seen as the antagonist bc he was against Rick and I thought “if Negan was the protagonist and Rick was the antagonist, we’d see Negan as the good guy and Rick as evil” but now it’s pretty clear that Negan was genuinely worse than Rick. I’m glad I watched this
U deserve more subscribers
Outstanding breakdown.
I think killing Glen was the real downfall of the show. He and Rick shared the plot armor
Nice video still a fan of Negan from beginning to End
a new world order saying but was designed for negan, give me your shit or i will kill you. imagine if he was an even bigger leader say for the commonwealth or the CRM. he had all the right things to say and had the firepower to do it with. the only reason he lost, he got outsmarted by the group + the loss of use from eugene. such a great character with tons of charisma, the redeem story arc was by far his best. will def go down as one of the greatest anti-heroes in an apocalyptic tv series.
I'm going through so much Negan on youtube lately and I haven't even gotten passed season 8.
I'm pretty sure negan would have been fragged very quickly. People don't tolerate tyrants for long if they have the opportunity to kill them.
I haven't even watched too much of the show and I know that Negan in seasons 6-8 was just a horrible human being long before I watched this video. His jokes are good, yeah. And I didn't care for when he killed Spencer. But he wasn't just a joker, *he was still a dictator in the end.* Rick and the group had every right to go after Negan back in season 6, and continue their attacks after their enslavement.
Negan was hands down one of the greatest villains in all of media history!
I dont even think he was a villain. He was a survivor. Theres no rules in a world like that.
@@stevepalpatine2828I can see that point of view. But I’m sure Glenn, Abraham and the rest of the crew would disagree! 😂
@@stevepalpatine2828u can't justify the wives thing
I wish they would provide more exposition as to how he was able to form a cult-like contingent and made his followers assume his identity as Negan.
Rick was a leader, Negan was a tyrant.
Rick lead a small group that seemed to take over or ruin every safe spot they came across, negan managed a network of safe places. He was a tyrant but desperate time call for desprite actions. Rick and his crew would be seen as the bad guys if the show didn't follow them
@@joshuasworldtour484 Negan brought Results, Rick brought Destruction(inadvertently or not).
@@joshuasworldtour484 "Negan lost" Okay? so did the Roman Empire at the End, geuss that means they also didnt knew S*** about Leadership^^
@@joshuasworldtour484 No it just means "someone lost eventually, therefore unstable Leadership" is an remarkebly d*** Argument and its disproven by even a short look at History :D
Heck! You even admit yourself that Rick has a hilariously bad Trek Record at leading Communitys, sure its iNaDvErTeNtLy but well... same S*** with every Communist System that ever existed, innit?
Guess real Commu... ehm Rickism hasnt been tried yet
@@joshuasworldtour484 Well given how even the briefest look at History showes how redicliuosly wrong you are... its preety good Source^^
Nevermind that you even admitted Ricks very VERY poor Trek Record at leading Communitys :D
Thank you! I never saw the attack on the outpost as bad! People who like to claim that "they were the bad guys" in that episode, are delusional. It really was justified, and reasonable, For all the reasons you stated.
The first chance I got to kill Negan, I would do it without any hesitation. Plus, I never felt he ever redeemed himself. He had no choice to behave a little cause he had lost his whole group and if he had managed to get a whole new group together he would keep doing what he had been doing. I am very surprised he wasn't mobbed and brutally killed after all the things he did.
Me too! In reality it definitely would not have ended well for him!
Negan would of died when he took a guys wife then armed said guy and was around him at all times.
Man would of def murdered suicide
@@sambo416 ❤️
if not for Rick honoring carl's last wishes they would have, still surprised Maggie didn't do it.
@@noone-ss8lu I know. Someone would have done it at some point.
This is beautifully explained, and perfectly sums up my complicated feelings about Negan, and my.. less complicated feelings about people who defend the actions of Negan/the Saviors. lol
I don't think Negan redeemed himself. For this the first and most important step is to realize that what I did was wrong. Then I decide to become a better person and make up for my misdeeds. But Negan thinks that what he did was right.
Very true! Reason why I stopped watching the series when they tried to make him a permanent edition. 😡
Nah negan show remorse for what he did and know what he did was wrong but he was definitely right for killing Glenn and Abraham
@@Thegoat36-sg5iy Rick was definitely wrong for not killing Negan.
@@elmercy4968 nah he was right for not killing negan
Really looking forward to more videos like this 😊
Great video, Negan is honastly the best charactor in the series every time he is on screen im just drawn in
It’s a toss up between him and Rick for me.
By law cohesion in to sex is against the law. It’s similar to blackmail, for instance if you’re a manager, and you tell one of your female employees “have sex with me, and if you don’t, I’ll demote you and lower your pay”, it’s still considered rape by use of cohesion, and part of it has to do with the person being in a position of power. The county jail near me had lawsuits years ago because the guards were pressuring female inmates to have sex with them, by offering them things if they did, and treating them poorly if they didn’t, and they were all charged and convicted of rape.
Meryl and Simon should have switched spots . Meryl definitely would have fitted in with negan better and Simon would have been a ride or die with the governor
I’ve been having a crazy idea for a long time. What if the saviors vs the scars from the last of us part 2 cause I can’t get this idea out of my head.
What episode was the scene at 15:00 from??
This is from Dead City.
keep posting, im in love with your content brother
Sorry but I would have Unalived Negan during one of his speeches and dealt with the fallout later lol. 🤷🏾♂️
I mean at the end of the day, Negan’s method of leadership would never work to lead a regular society of people. His methods however could possibly be successful ruling over a group of criminals or people such as Simon, hell it would probably even save people as Negan said because it would have kept men like Simon, people who enjoy killing, in line. Regular sane civilians however, people with empathy and selflessness? No, not an effective form of leadership as eventually… a large group of people would rebel.
No. Saying Neegan is right is essentially advocating for a tryannical monarchy that rules through force alone. We settled this argument over 100 years ago and it resulted in the deaths of tens of millions.
We went from Kings to Egotistic Bureaucrats…..😂 at least Kings gave us 3 months vacations.
Negan was a monster and I brook no nonsense about the show's redemption arc. Killing abraham and glen in the comics was shock value, demonstrated that he is a dangerous man gleefully revels in violence cruelty and tyranny.
Glenn and Abraham were way bigger in the show than the comics. The show set Glen up as the setting's densest (and honestly humanity's final) concentration of light, life, love devotion mercy and humanity. When the show followed through with killing Glen it accidentally symbolically killed the world's chance of restoring its humanity. It finally demonstrated Rick's thesis, that the only difference between the living and the dead is that the former are more ambulatory.
That kill, accidentally, allegorically meant the cycle of violence devouring everything will persist forever and there is no escape- only an endless hell of wrath.
They couldn't not follow through but still, Negan was such an incredible blunder and the property never recovered from it.
Negan=our government
Will you be doing a "Was he right?" video on the Governor too?
17:10 There was NO sexual exploitation. Those women might have been pressured to become a wife, but it was ultimately up to them. Maybe the benefits outweighed the cons. Maybe they felt it was better to just 'go along with it'. But he didn't force them, as if they were sex-slaves. Negan killed his own trusted man, when that man decided to get fresh with a prisoner. Apparently, you don't understand just how much emphasis there was on 'the rules'. I didn't see any 'slavery'. I saw two classes of people. 'Trusted and untrusted'. If you were trusted, you were respected. Even those within his own camp were well on their way to becoming 'trusted members'... it was those in Oceanside, Hilltop, Kingdom, and Alexandria that were 'untrusted' outsiders. If I had to guess, Kingdom was probably next in line to become part of the Saviors, with King Ezekiel still in charge, but not having to 'provide'. Next might have been Hilltop, if they had gone through with killing Gregory as their 'final test'.
Negan did have a council, maybe more like 'department heads' like you might find in a corporation. You want to talk about 'extreme social inequality', and tell me about the differences between the corporate officers, and the janitors/worker-bees. Tell me about the difference between someone busting their ass, and bringing home $1000 per week, and someone who is bringing home millions per year, just for sitting in an office between games of golf and trips to the Bahamas.
"Social Darwinism" I had to look that up online just to try to figure out what you are even talking about... and No, that didn't think of themselves as 'superior' because of their race. They instead had the same kind of bravado, that one might find, if they were working for a nationally recognized corporation.
"Despotism"... Really? You think the saviors were all despots? Or do you think that title alone goes to Negan himself? The man was trying to build something out of nothing. He not only had to lead, but to be the example... but in your mind, he was doing everything by himself? Did you even watch the show?
"Pro-slavery" Name one 'slave master'. Name one 'slave'. You can't, because you made that up. Say it again, "People are a resource", now the way you say it, you make them out to be slaves. Eugene, a scientist, he can make bullets, and he can probably make 'other stuff'. That makes him 'resourceful'. The 'doctor' and his brother the 'doctor', they can fix people, cure sickness, that also makes them a resource. Got military training, hand-to-hand combat skills, do I need to say it... 'resourceful'. Everyone is, or can be 'resourceful' and hence, a 'resource'... not a slave. So spit that word out of your mouth.
"Dehumanization"... wow, I can tell that you never served in the military. Because we were all 'dehumanized' in boot camp. We all had our heads shaved, treated like cattle, brain-washed, and told to 'follow orders without question'. That's how I can tell you never served. Because you look at the way Daryl was treated, and call that 'dehumanizing'. Let's face it. Daryl is a tough cookie. But if you could win him over, you could probably win over all of Rick's group without violence. Negan tried really hard with Daryl. If that mean breaking down his loyalty to Rick, then that was well worth the gamble. And let's not forget. Daryl broke ranks and actually punched Negan... That's how Negan knew that Daryl was willing to do the right thing, even if it was the 'wrong time' to do it.
Now, step back, review the show and consider how things could have been different, if Rick had let Gregory die, and didn't attack the people at the satellite location. What if Rick and Negan had met on neutral ground, on fair terms, and just got to know each other. What if Rick's group agreed to cooperate with the Saviors, sure, there might have been some rough patches, but consider those colonies that resisted. Oceanside got their men wiped out, because they resisted. Hilltop lost their weapons because they fought back. Kingdom... I don't really know what the kingdom lost.. maybe they didn't resist. Alexandria... Didn't Carl pull a gun? Didn't Denise try to hide some food? Wasn't there some guns missing from the logbooks? Those mistakes only cost them some supplies and their mattresses. And Rick, was the most violent aggressor the Saviors encountered.
Thank you. People saw multiple wives and automatically jumped to some Hollywood Island bs.
Like you pointed out negan blatantly says that he didn't force the wives, and that it was their choice to be with him rather than be part of the workers downstairs. If one day they decided they didn't want to be there anymore, they would find her a job, and she would be on her way.
They say negan exploits people, but Rick's groups original plan at Alexandria was to take over. Their plan.. was to exploit them LOL
People always want to jump to whatever team is assigned as the good guys whether it be reckon them. Or bear with me bringing up a different show game of thrones with the starks. A lot of people just jump on team Stark cuz they have honor, meanwhile most people in real life don't have honor, and they themselves are more like freys.
Dude, coercion is still sexual exploitation. Especially in the case where it's sleep with me and you'll get your medicine or whatever it is that you need. The "choice" they have is sleep with him or die essentially. That by definition is still rape, sexual coercion, and incredibly fucked up.
If someone threatens a woman to shoot her husband if she wont have sex with him, this is obviously rape and sex-slavery. The reason why he would shoot the husband is completely irrelevant for this. If the US-president would offer a woman to pardon her husband from death penalty, if she has sex with him, this is rape. And this is what Negan did.
I remember seeing many men saying this when those episodes aired, and it was clear most don’t truly understand what rape/sexual assault is.. The main , and most important part of rape “force, coercion, ~~abuse of authority~~~ against a person who is incapable of giving valid consent”.. Going along out of fear is mental coercion, something far greater than physical force , it’s not true consent. Until our society gets a clue sexual assault will always be a huge problem.
@@onlyalisaawilliams I agree, Negan did use his influence to put a woman between a rock and a hard place, as a means of intimidation to get what he wanted. But, he did that with men too.
He forced Rick to cut off Carl's arm, threatened to pull out his other eye, and feed it to Rick, if he didn't. When faced with that choice, it was only when Rick broke down into tears (and the snot bubble), that Negan pulled his 'power play'.
Only in that situation, I really don't think that Rick had any other choice. When Rick finally resolved himself that the only way to save anyone's life, was to cut off Carl's arm... that was the final straw that Negan wanted.
Now we don't know each and every situation behind each of Negan's wives. It could very well be, that a lot of people were going to go through a whole lot of pain, if they didn't 'marry' him. All we know is that his 'harem' wanted him dead.
I think that this was Negan 'making rules' and then 'justifying himself' for breaking the rules. I agree, it was completely wrong of him to do this... and it was worse, that no one stood up, and called him out for it.
I think in his head, it was not just control over his harem, but control over everyone. Who would dare step up and object to him, even IF he were breaking his own rules.. And that's probably what pleased him more than any form of sexual actions with the women. I hope that is making sense.
He left them an 'out', but probably like the kind of 'out' we might see in a Saw movie. There would be blood, there would be pain, and maybe there would be death, or maybe... maybe if someone had some king kong balls, and told him off, he might find some respect for that person.
If he can't rule from a point of 'respect' then he'll rule from a point of 'fear'.
Now here is what we do know of Negan. He didn't force every woman to marry him. He actually had several females in positions of authority. I don't know, maybe some of those women scared him deep down where a man doesn't want to admit it.
But his wives were weak. So weak in fact, that they would rather give up their real husbands and sleep with the enemy. Now that, is a special kind of weak. So, yes, I do think that there was a difference.
His wives were 'treated' well. At least a lot better than the scrubs and underlings that had to 'bow' in Negan's presence. If they had a want, they could just take, but they didn't, because they knew it was taking out of someone else's hand to do so.
I don't think that it was ever really about sex to Negan, it was about power and control. Look at how long he put up with Simon, waiting on him to step up and become his right-hand man. Problem was, is that Simon did things his own way.
People died, resources were squandered, and in the end, Simon challenged Negan to take his throne. Could you imagine what would happen if Simon was running that place? That! Is some scary shit.
While it might have been a gilded cage, it was still a cage. But compare the saviors to the claimers... the Terminites... and the governor. I could give examples of what each of those groups could have done... but I think you have enough imagination.
Don't let my praise of the saviors, leave you with the idea that I thought they were the 'best thing going'... not in the least. But between the Wolves, the Whisperers, or Rick's psychotic emotions... The saviors weren't nearly as bad.
I used to watch walking dead with it running in the background, after Negan came on screen i'd be glued to it
I like to believe that negan came into power because of just constant fighting/infighting.