Comprehensive, informative, complete. Goddamit, I love listening to true professionals explaining complex problems in human language. Thank you for the quality of content you put up. Great work!
Nations Alternator in Missouri makes an auxiliary alternator kit for different vans, for around $2K. The kit includes a Balmar controller and mounting hardware for the particular van, greatly simplifying installation. Our Ram Promaster 1500-based Carado Axion came with a secondary alternator. We've had it for 5 years and enjoyed it. We also have 200W of solar and 2 lithiums that we upgrades from 400AH to 600AH. In our experience it has meant not need to even think about a portable gas-powered generator, and so charging it in a campground is vastly quieter with just the engine idling. We're happy with our choice but there are some things to watch out for that weren't mentioned in the video. 1. Some van dealers won't deal with anything you add to the engine bay and may balk at warranty repairs on other things in the engine bay. Find out how your local dealer(s) stand(s) on this issue--especially if you're still under warranty. 2. Our RV's manufacturer didn't always install these secondary alternators correctly. This is not a big deal--doesn't cost a lot to correct--but it shows the need to be careful when modifying anything in the engine bay. 3. The Balmar should be installed high up in the engine bay. Looks to me like the installation used in this video was too low, making it prey to corrosion from water & guck thrown up as you drive--especially if you're in snow country where they use salt to melt road ice.
If you're going to that length, why not just go with a a 48v alternator and aux battery? No need to wrestle with huge, heavy wires, etc. A bit of conversion at the other end and you're done.
not the best option to have 2 (or even 3 with 220V) different power systems in vehicle. Different switchboards, lights, dc-dc converters... yes 48V has big advantages but with huge cost.
Good Video! Thank you 23:41 for the info. It would be helpful if you also covered this topic on Transits and the Pro Masters. I know many have mistakenly ordered the secondary Transit alternator not know it is integrated into the vehicle electrical system rather than providing the option to charge house batteries directly.
I really wish you, and others, would use proper units for power (watts) and energy (watt-hours). It's displayed right on the face of your Victron Energy app! Using amps and amp-hours is approximately correct, assuming the voltage is always exactly 12 volts (it isn't). It is particularly annoying if a builder is setting up a 24 volt or 48 volt system. And for the currents you have in your system, you should really be considering 24 volts.
@@JimJones-gd2jy Sorry, but I haven't done a second alternator, however I would recommend that you investigate if a DC-DC converter-charger connected to the CCP of the van would be sufficient for your needs. Much simpler install. Good luck!
Some info is missing here: if you go build a van, go for a 48v system. With "just" 60amp at 48v you can in theory charge 2800W into your battery bank. So 15kwh bank would take ~5 hours assuming a charging efficiency of 90%. Default alternators are 12v? I don’t know not an expert by any means but thought this is a key element. Also with higher voltage system you can use smaller wire which is also a benefit.
Very good video... BUT why would we have second alternator... We could just upgrade primary alternator to high output alternator? That would be better...?
I have a 2021 Ram Promaster 3500 so I am concerned about the low clearance underneath for a second alternator. American Power offers a 360-Amp alternator. Could I use that to replace my factory 220-Amp alternator and not install a secondary?
Great video, Did you use a dc to dc charge controller? Or is it not needed on a secondary alternator like when you are using the stock alternator. If so, was it an Orion and what size?
I actually have been working on the next best thing to replace this should have some tests done next month. Something for the 48v crowd that work a bit better than this actually just because iv done this and that wire run with the Bigg cable in a big transit was hell. With some smaller wire it's a cake job. Really though I will be doing one offs so someone please produce something better than what I came up with and sell it.
There is definitely no free rides in the electrical world. What size cable did they use to connect from Alternator? My wire calculator suggesting 240mm minimum for 280 amps. Your right re those little toy circuit breakers I can never understand how those tiny terminals are ever allowed to be sold you found the right one, check the tightness a few times as the cable settles have found they can become a little loose at start allowing to heat and trip. The power minimum from your van motor I believe will be 4kw / 5.4hp transferred of cause by belt we have found to be a high maintenance issue carry at least one spare We are Victron Professional in Australia trying to help the Blue Sky Dreamers.
240mm . ? You might want to check that. It is way off. Your hp calculation is similarly off. With probably 50% alternator efficiency you get about 11 hp of engine power used for 4k.
Hi, Chris from Balmar here. Might I suggest looking into our Alternator Protection Module (APM-12) to help protect the alternator from unintended disconnects? I did not see if you used a Victron SoftSwitch 104 to safely connect/disconnect the Balmar MC-618 based on the battery allowing or disallowing charge.
If you replaced your primary alternator for a high output alternator, wouldn't that suffice? I'm looking into a a 220A to the house battery bank through a voltage regulator then from the bank to a DC/DC to charge the starter.
Not completely sure, but if you're buying a second alternator anyway, why not separate the two electrical systems? Seems like it's all upside other than carrying the extra 20lbs for the alternator?
Probably worth considering whether you're even able to install a second alternator. Maybe there just isn't any space for a second alternator. that's what I worry about but it sure would be nice to charge a higher voltage battery bank system.
What charge controller are you using to get that amount of watts into the victron ecosystem? Does the 2/0 cable tie in to the Victron Lynx or does it tie in via some other way? You mentioned that when the van is running the alternator has to be tied into the battery bank. If the exciter is isolated, could we run the van with the battery isolator in open circuit config or do we also need to break the engine live signal wire as well? How does installing a 2nd high output alternator vs replacing the stock alternator with a high output unit? (Run one alternator but a single high capacity one) Thanks.
Maybe replacing the factory alternator with the high output one would keep from adding additional fuel consumption because of the extra drag. But it would be running two separate charging systems.
Great info. With induction cooking I’ll likely fall somewhere between standard and high power. Im planning to add additional solar so I can remain parked more-drive less. If that doesn’t work due to low season use with shorter sun days I’ll have to think about a high output alternator. I’m assuming I’d remove my Victron DC/DC 30a max Orion and disconnect the starter battery from the charging system at that point and allow the high output alternator with regulator to charge my 400ah Battleborn bank directly. Thanks for the comprehensive video.
I'm curious...was hoping it would be in the video...How is the second alternator connected to the Victron system? Does it connect to the Lynx distributor?
Does that mean you are also using Victron batteries? How would you connect if not using Victron batteries? Would you connect to Lynx distributor then to smart shunt?
I plan on traveling with a pet and I am rigging up an auto start to the van when the temperature exceeds pre determined temp. if the van idles while running the AC will this overheat the second alternator and how do I prevent that? Thanks!
What type of wire are you using for the voltage sensor wire? For the positive and negative wires, you mention that you are using 2wg but you did not mention anything about the voltage sensor wire.
I would love to hear your ideas I’m creating an unethical unthought of home generator using 2 - 10SI Car alternator’s 100A & 120A w/ a Wood Mazda 150 Amp alternator but I’ll have to run on a board driven by 12 V DC powered motor or motors but the key is how to harness the electrical power , and not trust your alternators by having them hooked up to batteries continually and ideally would be is if you could wire straight to the stater the copper winding under the alternator housing in the rear because that creates AC currents which is the purest sine wave so you don’t need an inverter the harness that electrical power ! You can directly feed that into your breaker box but you need to have a charging module to keep track when the battery bank drive down to a specific voltage the electricity in the battery will spin the DC powered motors creating electricity to recharge the battery bank that’s turning the alternator to create electricity so Now you’re self-sufficient but my battery bank is 48 V so I have to get a step down from 48 V to 12 V for the motors to run feeding the electricity straight into my breaker box on a 20 amp double pole breaker and in return my solar inverter charge controller can also charge my batteries ! Any Intell welcome !
@@VanLand im running a victron 3000 with 6battle born lithium battery bank, a lynx distributor, with a mppt 100/50. I have same alternator with balmar voltage regulator. I purchased AC unit thru Nomadic Cooling, thru their Operations Manager. They convinced me to add second alternator like in their you tube video. I even had that same shop they work with install it. “ The Benz Shop”. At the time of installation I did not have my battery bank installed so they could not complete that connection. Now that my power system is in place. Neither company seems to know how to connect the dots. When I saw your video I almost cried in joy. It was the missing piece. But without a wiring digram on how the alternator and balmar is hooked up with wire and wire gauge details im stuck. I reached out to both your shops yesterday trying to talk to someone with no luck. More than willing to pay for time and info. Thank you.
Wait. When the breaker popped originally, wouldn’t you damage the alternator because of the immediate disconnect? Did you have a sterling protection device?
@@VanLand thanks! I was told that it’s not recommended to have a breaker or have an on/off switch for that reason. If you aren’t paying attention you will ruin your alternator. I guess you could always up size your wires to be certain you arnt at a fire risk.
The reason TO install an OCPD (breaker or fuse) on an alternator cable is the cable is generally long and large, as such, has a greater potential for destruction should a short (not an overload) occur. To be able to disconnect the battery if a short occurs. 1) place the OCPD within 7" of the battery (per ABYC) and 2) size the OCPD larger than the max capacity of the alternator so the alternator output has no ability to trigger it (designed for fault protection, not overload protection). A fault can deliver much more current from the battery than the alternator can generate and will be able to activate the OCPD to protect the cable. Tripping the breaker on a short WILL produce a huge spike IF the alternator is under heavy load at the time (it could also potentially happen when the alternator is lightly loaded or the engine is off) and may damage the alternator but it will probably prevent a fire that is likely to consume the whole vehicle.
Hi guys. I am not professional. Just my thought. What about for not to ruin your main altenator have switch and use that switch only when engine is off??? Hmm??? That way I think there won't be big jumps of amps up or down... Or I am wrong?
The question is, do you run the secondary alternator with the car in place, or just driving? No point in using the 2nd alternator for the AC when you can only use it driving. You're in the front using the van's built in AC for that. If you are stationary and using the alternator with the AC running, would that overheat the alternator/engine? then not a good idea to use the 2nd alternator.
The battery storage takes care of running the AC when the van is off. The secondary alternator charges the batteries at a high rate. You can get 100+ amps off the alternator while idling but it’s best to limit idling with the Sprinter.
First of all a great video. Since this seems to be a completely separate system from the vehicle charging system, could this be used in a different vehicle? I have an A-liner and a pick-up. My thought would be to have the house battery in my Pick-up bed with a pig tail off the battery bank to the 12 volt system on the trailer. I have a 2014 Nissan frontier. Any thoughts on whether or not this could work and if so, what secondary alternator kit could I use?
Great video. Thanks for organizing a lot of different pieces of information around alternators and power. How much does the fuel economy mpg of the engine go down, if at all, when the secondary alternator is installed?
I have this exact alternator and see about 1 mpg difference at highway speeds. For anyone considering this, I recommend wiring up a Victron Smart Battery Protect on the ignition wire (not the high output wire) so you can turn your regulator on and off remotely and thereby only taxing the engine when you want to. You’ll also need to do this if you have a Victron VE Bus BMS, like I do.
@@bradgilley thats a great point about the on/off switch and that extra load on the engine that causes the reduced 1mpg only happens when current is flowing to the house batteries. Just like any other engine accessory on the engine belt causing your fuel economy to go down when you switch on the air conditioning in the car/van.
Dumb newby question, if you’re existing alternator charges your AGM chassis battery and your lithium house batteries, why wouldn’t you install another AGM alternator, then at least if one alternator fails you still have power to both sets of batteries as opposed to when you divide the batteries with their own alternators you have alternator exclusivity, no redundancy.
This is an excellent video. It was very helpful. It did raise one question for me: Does an alternator always put out the same amperage? I would assume the answer is "no", that it varies based on RPM. This makes me wonder if it is reasonable to expect the alternator to power an AC unit while the engine is idling. And it leads me to believe that adding "high idle" capability to a vehicle could be useful in this context. Thoughts?
ha ha blow up the battery LOL wow thats why they sell DC2DC with Lithium profiles. Place that in between the alternator and the battery. Honestly thanks for the video yet a single alternator with 300 amps and dual 50amp DC2DC chargers a 400AH battery bank was simpler and less items needed in the engine bay. Also being able to have peace of mind that the DC2DC do its job and turn off charge once the batteries are 100 SOC and then kick back in once it hits a threshold. To charge again.
My van has a second factory alternator. I want to use the second battery to run maxxair fan and some led lights, Is there a way to isolate this battery so I don't accidentally drain my start battery while the vehicle is parked?
Key to a using battery charging regulator like an MC618 is also using the 'optional' temperature sensor to reduce charge rate as the alternator reaches 120C. This keeps the amperage output at the maximum SAFE operating temperature the alternator can sustain constantly with regard to changing conditions. Your (otherwise correct) understanding to have a method to limit current output is necessary but NOT THE key to safe operation unless you also understand the safe capacity of the system. Simply put, just installing a fixed DC charger is no guarantee that the alternator can supply that amount. Sometimes it may, sometimes not. Safe capacity varies with ambient temperature, engine load (heat) and engine speed (alternator cooling fan speed for cooling). Since those three vary widely, there is no single capacity answer. The best method is to measure and adjust based on alternator temp. Using the alt temp sensor to directly reduce alternator temp is the only sure way constantly adjust capacity to conditions and not to exceed alternator capacity.
Hi Ken, it depends on the amperage draw and total length of wire. This chart will tell you exactly what size to use depending on those two factors. assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg
Great video. Just watched for the second time to get my head around it all. Questions: Is it better to tie the 2nd alternator to the main starting/charging system or keep it separate? Is the voltage controller still required if there is a DC-DC charger in the system?
In modern heavy vans 100A charge is usually drainable from main generator (150-180A total power), so 2nd alternator required mostly not for additional energy (consumption per day) but for additional power. To be able to power 2KW load for time long enough to not survive on batteries - kitchen equipment, power tools, industrial grade compressor etc. Of course with dual lead battery. NO LITHIUM! Extremely dangerous, can explode from overcharge or cook the generator when BMS switches it off on full throttle without load. For the same reason - NO BREAKER IN GENERATOR CIRCUIT! Ever! Breaker between battery and load, main and then set of smaller final CB, but generator and battery must be connected forever, in any conditions. What is 2KW equipment? Plenty of it. Water kettle, coffee maker, microwave, power tools, area lighting, charger for electric boat/bike battery, whatever. Such a power shifts life in van to the other level, almost like in usual modern house. Real tuff service vans have 2nd generator option from the manufacturer. Its not so easy to get, it is not visible in usual configuration tools, dealers usually do not know about it and significantly resist... but it is possible and not so expensive. My new Crafter van was ordered with it, but, tadaaaaaam, they forgot to install it. After half a year of discussion dealer got all parts from overseas, tried to assemble everything... and gave up as they saw it the first time in history. Will try again next week.
Why do van people always talk about power in the amount of Amps instead of watts? It makes the assumption that everybody is using a 12v system. That may have been fine in the old days when EVERYONE was using a 12v system. But for those using a 24v or 48v system, saying that such and such uses -17.2A would not be the same using a 12v system. Whereas using watts is UNIVERSAL and doesn't matter which voltage your system uses. I wish that people would start using WATTS instead of AMPS when referring to power usage.
I want everything to run on solar. 70mph down road while being cool on just solar. Cool when resting on batteries that are solar charged. Ahhh. Wishful thinking.
@@VanLand I'm aware, but amps per hour are not a thing. Ah is a thing, and is amps x time, so you could maybe say Ah/h to decsribe the mean current draw from a varying load like the fridge but it is easier to just say average current draw.
.. i think people tend to forget about small wind generators, at about 400 to 800 Watts Day & Night & the Windy Desert You're Never Gonna Run Out of Power.. 🌬️🎐💨⚡ .. i'd still do the second alternator, but i don't always feel like an hours long Drive..
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Comprehensive, informative, complete. Goddamit, I love listening to true professionals explaining complex problems in human language. Thank you for the quality of content you put up. Great work!
Thank you for your kind words. Glad you liked our latest video !
My guy, damit, I luv when someone gives a well deserved and honest comment, I agree too!! Keep being super positive my guy!
@@jakeclark3298 damn, positive guy. Very good. Honesty and truth. Definitely human. Wow damn guy. 👏
Dang i forgot to mention love. Now they'll know I'm not a bot. 😢🎉😮
generator not made obsolete, but redundant.
redundancy can be a plus
2nd alternator is a game changer for boon docking
Nations Alternator in Missouri makes an auxiliary alternator kit for different vans, for around $2K. The kit includes a Balmar controller and mounting hardware for the particular van, greatly simplifying installation. Our Ram Promaster 1500-based Carado Axion came with a secondary alternator. We've had it for 5 years and enjoyed it. We also have 200W of solar and 2 lithiums that we upgrades from 400AH to 600AH. In our experience it has meant not
need to even think about a portable gas-powered generator, and so charging it in a campground is vastly quieter with just the engine idling.
We're happy with our choice but there are some things to watch out for that weren't mentioned in the video.
1. Some van dealers won't deal with anything you add to the engine bay and may balk at warranty repairs on other things in the engine bay. Find out how your local dealer(s) stand(s) on this issue--especially if you're still under warranty.
2. Our RV's manufacturer didn't always install these secondary alternators correctly. This is not a big deal--doesn't cost a lot to correct--but it shows the need to be careful when modifying anything in the engine bay.
3. The Balmar should be installed high up in the engine bay. Looks to me like the installation used in this video was too low, making it prey to corrosion from water & guck thrown up as you drive--especially if you're in snow country where they use salt to melt road ice.
The Balmer is mounted plenty high enough in the engine bay in this install.
What about upsizing the original alternator?
If you're going to that length, why not just go with a a 48v alternator and aux battery? No need to wrestle with huge, heavy wires, etc. A bit of conversion at the other end and you're done.
not the best option to have 2 (or even 3 with 220V) different power systems in vehicle. Different switchboards, lights, dc-dc converters... yes 48V has big advantages but with huge cost.
Good Video! Thank you 23:41 for the info. It would be helpful if you also covered this topic on Transits and the Pro Masters. I know many have mistakenly ordered the secondary Transit alternator not know it is integrated into the vehicle electrical system rather than providing the option to charge house batteries directly.
Can you set up a switch for it to turn on and off? So if you don’t want to charge your batteries it’s not affecting the gas mileage?
You have great videos.
Please do a video on the Wakespeed WS 500 regulator and the REC-Active BMS.
Enjoyed the video Jeremy.
From our previous phone conversation, I’m looking forward to seeing your new hot water system for vans.
I really wish you, and others, would use proper units for power (watts) and energy (watt-hours). It's displayed right on the face of your Victron Energy app!
Using amps and amp-hours is approximately correct, assuming the voltage is always exactly 12 volts (it isn't). It is particularly annoying if a builder is setting up a 24 volt or 48 volt system. And for the currents you have in your system, you should really be considering 24 volts.
Wish you were in SoCal . . Looking for a knowledgeable person to help wire my second alternator.
@@JimJones-gd2jy Sorry, but I haven't done a second alternator, however I would recommend that you investigate if a DC-DC converter-charger connected to the CCP of the van would be sufficient for your needs. Much simpler install.
Good luck!
Some info is missing here: if you go build a van, go for a 48v system. With "just" 60amp at 48v you can in theory charge 2800W into your battery bank. So 15kwh bank would take ~5 hours assuming a charging efficiency of 90%. Default alternators are 12v? I don’t know not an expert by any means but thought this is a key element. Also with higher voltage system you can use smaller wire which is also a benefit.
Very good video... BUT why would we have second alternator... We could just upgrade primary alternator to high output alternator? That would be better...?
That’s also an option but not as robust as the Nations option.
I have a 2021 Ram Promaster 3500 so I am concerned about the low clearance underneath for a second alternator. American Power offers a 360-Amp alternator. Could I use that to replace my factory 220-Amp alternator and not install a secondary?
Always enjoyable learning from you.
I appreciate that!
I want this mercedes alternator, it looks smart, for my 2nd alternator in my v10 6.8l van. Obviously it takes some planning to mitigate all the risks.
Great video,
Did you use a dc to dc charge controller? Or is it not needed on a secondary alternator like when you are using the stock alternator. If so, was it an Orion and what size?
I actually have been working on the next best thing to replace this should have some tests done next month. Something for the 48v crowd that work a bit better than this actually just because iv done this and that wire run with the Bigg cable in a big transit was hell. With some smaller wire it's a cake job. Really though I will be doing one offs so someone please produce something better than what I came up with and sell it.
Great video. Is it also possible to change the old alternator for a bigger one?
Good question! I would like to read a response to it, too. There are some interesting 320 and 360 Amp alternators available in the market.
@@gregc5684I think I saw a video with ARB saying that they are using the 320.
There is definitely no free rides in the electrical world. What size cable did they use to connect from Alternator? My wire calculator suggesting 240mm minimum for 280 amps. Your right re those little toy circuit breakers I can never understand how those tiny terminals are ever allowed to be sold you found the right one, check the tightness a few times as the cable settles have found they can become a little loose at start allowing to heat and trip.
The power minimum from your van motor I believe will be 4kw / 5.4hp transferred of cause by belt we have found to be a high maintenance issue carry at least one spare
We are Victron Professional in Australia trying to help the Blue Sky Dreamers.
Actually the power would be drained from battery also, so the alternator current would not be too high. Just depends on your setup.
240mm . ? You might want to check that. It is way off. Your hp calculation is similarly off. With probably 50% alternator efficiency you get about 11 hp of engine power used for 4k.
Hi, Chris from Balmar here. Might I suggest looking into our Alternator Protection Module (APM-12) to help protect the alternator from unintended disconnects? I did not see if you used a Victron SoftSwitch 104 to safely connect/disconnect the Balmar MC-618 based on the battery allowing or disallowing charge.
Thank you Chris 🙏
May I know do you need mount for the second alternator?
If you replaced your primary alternator for a high output alternator, wouldn't that suffice? I'm looking into a a 220A to the house battery bank through a voltage regulator then from the bank to a DC/DC to charge the starter.
Not completely sure, but if you're buying a second alternator anyway, why not separate the two electrical systems? Seems like it's all upside other than carrying the extra 20lbs for the alternator?
Probably worth considering whether you're even able to install a second alternator. Maybe there just isn't any space for a second alternator. that's what I worry about but it sure would be nice to charge a higher voltage battery bank system.
Unless you have the factory rear air conditioner, there is space.
What charge controller are you using to get that amount of watts into the victron ecosystem? Does the 2/0 cable tie in to the Victron Lynx or does it tie in via some other way?
You mentioned that when the van is running the alternator has to be tied into the battery bank. If the exciter is isolated, could we run the van with the battery isolator in open circuit config or do we also need to break the engine live signal wire as well?
How does installing a 2nd high output alternator vs replacing the stock alternator with a high output unit? (Run one alternator but a single high capacity one)
Thanks.
Maybe replacing the factory alternator with the high output one would keep from adding additional fuel consumption because of the extra drag. But it would be running two separate charging systems.
Great info.
With induction cooking I’ll likely fall somewhere between standard and high power.
Im planning to add additional solar so I can remain parked more-drive less.
If that doesn’t work due to low season use with shorter sun days I’ll have to think about a high output alternator.
I’m assuming I’d remove my Victron DC/DC 30a max Orion and disconnect the starter battery from the charging system at that point and allow the high output alternator with regulator to charge my 400ah Battleborn bank directly.
Thanks for the comprehensive video.
You mentioned yourself that popping the breaker might damage the alternator. How are you sure this didn't happen here?
You guys recommend a 250A blue sea breaker on the POS 2AWG wire going to the pos battery terminal? Why? And what specific breaker model?
I'm curious...was hoping it would be in the video...How is the second alternator connected to the Victron system? Does it connect to the Lynx distributor?
It connects to the Lynx BMS via the Lynx distributor.
Does that mean you are also using Victron batteries? How would you connect if not using Victron batteries? Would you connect to Lynx distributor then to smart shunt?
I plan on traveling with a pet and I am rigging up an auto start to the van when the temperature exceeds pre determined temp. if the van idles while running the AC will this overheat the second alternator and how do I prevent that? Thanks!
Have factory rear air so what’s my solution? Replace factory alt w/ HO alt?
That would be a good solution 👍🏼
Did you dedicate the stock alternator to the starting battery?
Correct
So does the van have too be running too power everything
Same serpentine belt or does it require a longer one? Is there a splash shield?
Air conditioner….nope, but a Bosche 4g water heater, dual induction cooktop, air fryer oven, etc….😂
What type of wire are you using for the voltage sensor wire? For the positive and negative wires, you mention that you are using 2wg but you did not mention anything about the voltage sensor wire.
Great video, thank you 👍
I would love to hear your ideas I’m creating an unethical unthought of home generator using 2 - 10SI Car alternator’s 100A & 120A w/ a Wood Mazda 150 Amp alternator but I’ll have to run on a board driven by 12 V DC powered motor or motors but the key is how to harness the electrical power , and not trust your alternators by having them hooked up to batteries continually and ideally would be is if you could wire straight to the stater the copper winding under the alternator housing in the rear because that creates AC currents which is the purest sine wave so you don’t need an inverter the harness that electrical power ! You can directly feed that into your breaker box but you need to have a charging module to keep track when the battery bank drive down to a specific voltage the electricity in the battery will spin the DC powered motors creating electricity to recharge the battery bank that’s turning the alternator to create electricity so Now you’re self-sufficient but my battery bank is 48 V so I have to get a step down from 48 V to 12 V for the motors to run feeding the electricity straight into my breaker box on a 20 amp double pole breaker and in return my solar inverter charge controller can also charge my batteries ! Any Intell welcome !
Awesome, as always! So you guys dont have any issues laying/ mounting your inverters on the floor?
No issues with laying it on the floor as long as there is plenty of ventilation. Not our preferred install but it does work.
Can you guys post the wiring diagrams. Please!!!
What Power system are you using? There are different layout drawings based on the equipment you choose. If I have the one for you, I’ll post it.
@@VanLand im running a victron 3000 with 6battle born lithium battery bank, a lynx distributor, with a mppt 100/50. I have same alternator with balmar voltage regulator. I purchased AC unit thru Nomadic Cooling, thru their Operations Manager. They convinced me to add second alternator like in their you tube video. I even had that same shop they work with install it. “ The Benz Shop”. At the time of installation I did not have my battery bank installed so they could not complete that connection. Now that my power system is in place. Neither company seems to know how to connect the dots. When I saw your video I almost cried in joy. It was the missing piece. But without a wiring digram on how the alternator and balmar is hooked up with wire and wire gauge details im stuck. I reached out to both your shops yesterday trying to talk to someone with no luck. More than willing to pay for time and info. Thank you.
Wait. When the breaker popped originally, wouldn’t you damage the alternator because of the immediate disconnect? Did you have a sterling protection device?
We had to keep a very close eye on it- as soon as it popped, we disabled the alternator immediately.
@@VanLand thanks! I was told that it’s not recommended to have a breaker or have an on/off switch for that reason. If you aren’t paying attention you will ruin your alternator. I guess you could always up size your wires to be certain you arnt at a fire risk.
The reason TO install an OCPD (breaker or fuse) on an alternator cable is the cable is generally long and large, as such, has a greater potential for destruction should a short (not an overload) occur. To be able to disconnect the battery if a short occurs. 1) place the OCPD within 7" of the battery (per ABYC) and 2) size the OCPD larger than the max capacity of the alternator so the alternator output has no ability to trigger it (designed for fault protection, not overload protection). A fault can deliver much more current from the battery than the alternator can generate and will be able to activate the OCPD to protect the cable. Tripping the breaker on a short WILL produce a huge spike IF the alternator is under heavy load at the time (it could also potentially happen when the alternator is lightly loaded or the engine is off) and may damage the alternator but it will probably prevent a fire that is likely to consume the whole vehicle.
Hi guys.
I am not professional.
Just my thought.
What about for not to ruin your main altenator have switch and use that switch only when engine is off???
Hmm???
That way I think there won't be big jumps of amps up or down...
Or I am wrong?
The question is, do you run the secondary alternator with the car in place, or just driving? No point in using the 2nd alternator for the AC when you can only use it driving. You're in the front using the van's built in AC for that. If you are stationary and using the alternator with the AC running, would that overheat the alternator/engine? then not a good idea to use the 2nd alternator.
The battery storage takes care of running the AC when the van is off. The secondary alternator charges the batteries at a high rate. You can get 100+ amps off the alternator while idling but it’s best to limit idling with the Sprinter.
First of all a great video. Since this seems to be a completely separate system from the vehicle charging system, could this be used in a different vehicle? I have an A-liner and a pick-up. My thought would be to have the house battery in my Pick-up bed with a pig tail off the battery bank to the 12 volt system on the trailer. I have a 2014 Nissan frontier. Any thoughts on whether or not this could work and if so, what secondary alternator kit could I use?
Great video. Thanks for organizing a lot of different pieces of information around alternators and power. How much does the fuel economy mpg of the engine go down, if at all, when the secondary alternator is installed?
I have this exact alternator and see about 1 mpg difference at highway speeds. For anyone considering this, I recommend wiring up a Victron Smart Battery Protect on the ignition wire (not the high output wire) so you can turn your regulator on and off remotely and thereby only taxing the engine when you want to. You’ll also need to do this if you have a Victron VE Bus BMS, like I do.
It’s hard to say because so many things affect MPG of a big vehicle like this. Not a huge difference but something to be aware of.
Thanks for adding this comment. Good idea on the exciter wire.
@@bradgilley thats a great point about the on/off switch and that extra load on the engine that causes the reduced 1mpg only happens when current is flowing to the house batteries. Just like any other engine accessory on the engine belt causing your fuel economy to go down when you switch on the air conditioning in the car/van.
Dumb newby question, if you’re existing alternator charges your AGM chassis battery and your lithium house batteries, why wouldn’t you install another AGM alternator, then at least if one alternator fails you still have power to both sets of batteries as opposed to when you divide the batteries with their own alternators you have alternator exclusivity, no redundancy.
This is an excellent video. It was very helpful. It did raise one question for me: Does an alternator always put out the same amperage? I would assume the answer is "no", that it varies based on RPM. This makes me wonder if it is reasonable to expect the alternator to power an AC unit while the engine is idling. And it leads me to believe that adding "high idle" capability to a vehicle could be useful in this context. Thoughts?
The Nations Alternator drops to 127 Amps at 1600rpm( from their website for a Promaster) I would guess its around 100 at idle.
I learn so much from your videos. Thank you!!
You are so welcome! Thanks for watching.
ha ha blow up the battery LOL wow thats why they sell DC2DC with Lithium profiles. Place that in between the alternator and the battery. Honestly thanks for the video yet a single alternator with 300 amps and dual 50amp DC2DC chargers a 400AH battery bank was simpler and less items needed in the engine bay. Also being able to have peace of mind that the DC2DC do its job and turn off charge once the batteries are 100 SOC and then kick back in once it hits a threshold. To charge again.
My van has a second factory alternator. I want to use the second battery to run maxxair fan and some led lights, Is there a way to isolate this battery so I don't accidentally drain my start battery while the vehicle is parked?
This power is not free, what is the load on the engine? Surely you would use more fuel, I don't know how significant that would be.
Secondary alternator for sprinter with factory rear air conditioner?
Amazing info!!
Excellent 😍
With the MC-618-H Balmar system a BMS or DC to DC charger isn't needed to limit current, correct?
Thank you.
Key to a using battery charging regulator like an MC618 is also using the 'optional' temperature sensor to reduce charge rate as the alternator reaches 120C. This keeps the amperage output at the maximum SAFE operating temperature the alternator can sustain constantly with regard to changing conditions. Your (otherwise correct) understanding to have a method to limit current output is necessary but NOT THE key to safe operation unless you also understand the safe capacity of the system. Simply put, just installing a fixed DC charger is no guarantee that the alternator can supply that amount. Sometimes it may, sometimes not. Safe capacity varies with ambient temperature, engine load (heat) and engine speed (alternator cooling fan speed for cooling). Since those three vary widely, there is no single capacity answer. The best method is to measure and adjust based on alternator temp. Using the alt temp sensor to directly reduce alternator temp is the only sure way constantly adjust capacity to conditions and not to exceed alternator capacity.
What size wire are you running from the alternator to the back?
Hi Ken, it depends on the amperage draw and total length of wire. This chart will tell you exactly what size to use depending on those two factors. assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg
Great video. Just watched for the second time to get my head around it all.
Questions: Is it better to tie the 2nd alternator to the main starting/charging system or keep it separate? Is the voltage controller still required if there is a DC-DC charger in the system?
The voltage regulator is always required for a high-output alternator and lithium batteries. The DC charger is typically limited to 50 amps or so.
@@VanLand thanks!
In modern heavy vans 100A charge is usually drainable from main generator (150-180A total power), so 2nd alternator required mostly not for additional energy (consumption per day) but for additional power. To be able to power 2KW load for time long enough to not survive on batteries - kitchen equipment, power tools, industrial grade compressor etc. Of course with dual lead battery. NO LITHIUM! Extremely dangerous, can explode from overcharge or cook the generator when BMS switches it off on full throttle without load. For the same reason - NO BREAKER IN GENERATOR CIRCUIT! Ever! Breaker between battery and load, main and then set of smaller final CB, but generator and battery must be connected forever, in any conditions.
What is 2KW equipment? Plenty of it. Water kettle, coffee maker, microwave, power tools, area lighting, charger for electric boat/bike battery, whatever. Such a power shifts life in van to the other level, almost like in usual modern house.
Real tuff service vans have 2nd generator option from the manufacturer. Its not so easy to get, it is not visible in usual configuration tools, dealers usually do not know about it and significantly resist... but it is possible and not so expensive. My new Crafter van was ordered with it, but, tadaaaaaam, they forgot to install it. After half a year of discussion dealer got all parts from overseas, tried to assemble everything... and gave up as they saw it the first time in history. Will try again next week.
keep us updated! ッ
Anyone else getting an Apollo 13 vibe? Got to keep them amp down!
Great video!
Comment for support
i am going to buy a van and install a 48 volt system maybe ? see you soon
Why do van people always talk about power in the amount of Amps instead of watts? It makes the assumption that everybody is using a 12v system. That may have been fine in the old days when EVERYONE was using a 12v system. But for those using a 24v or 48v system, saying that such and such uses -17.2A would not be the same using a 12v system. Whereas using watts is UNIVERSAL and doesn't matter which voltage your system uses. I wish that people would start using WATTS instead of AMPS when referring to power usage.
I want everything to run on solar. 70mph down road while being cool on just solar. Cool when resting on batteries that are solar charged. Ahhh. Wishful thinking.
SPEAK IN WATTS!!!!!!!!!
amps we need to know your boltage and then do math....
Or you can just speak in watts and its done....
It's possible to live without AC! Geez, been doing van life for a few years and never ever wished I had it.
Why does no-one use the correct terminology when it comes to amps and amp hours? Even qualified electricians can't get it right. 🤔
Watts = volts x amps
The only formula you need to know.
Remember LiFePo batteries run at about 13.4 volts in a “12v” system.
@@VanLand I'm aware, but amps per hour are not a thing. Ah is a thing, and is amps x time, so you could maybe say Ah/h to decsribe the mean current draw from a varying load like the fridge but it is easier to just say average current draw.
.. i think people tend to forget about small wind generators, at about 400 to 800 Watts Day & Night & the Windy Desert You're Never Gonna Run Out of Power.. 🌬️🎐💨⚡
.. i'd still do the second alternator, but i don't always feel like an hours long Drive..
not power, but amp running trhough it!