The Sparrow | Book Review | Religious Agenda?
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- A review of Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow, with thoughts about a potential religious agenda.
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Great vid. Astute points all.
Thanks. Glad we had a lot of thoughts in common in this one.
I came back to put my thoughts on the correct video. I'm feelin a little like I need to rewatch now.
This book had a great effect on me. I went to Jesuit prep school and University. I read this book not long after it came out, when I was fresh out of college. It's one of those rare books that I intentionally avoid re-reading, because I don't want the cynic I've become ruin the experience of the first read. It's an example of how your receptiveness to a book can be impacted by your worldview and experience. Looking back, I can see how one of the author's themes may be the inherent selfishness of the evangelizing spirit, for which they paid dearly.
Great point. I do beleive had I read this in high-school, I would have been less cynical about it.
Excellent review. I saw many of the other Alliance reviews of this book, and - as someone who is not religious - I really appreciated that your review devoted so much to the topic of religion.
Thanks Rich. I'd been really hesitant over the decades to pick this up. Hope I shed some light on it
Despite plot holes a mile wide, and the sitcom dialog, I just kept reading and managed to enjoy the book. But I'll take the Wiki summary for the sequel in lieu of a read.
If you like sci-fi exploring religious themes, James Blish's A Case of Conscience is an amazing book.
am in synch with you Philip
Oh yeah. I enjoyed this book but I didn't have two more of it in me.
I appreciate this review. You mentioned you were going to cover this a little while ago so I read it recently (it was on my long list already). I give it a “meh”. I wish I could turn down the religion by about 80%. It took me out of the story way more than it added. I get that Emilio’s faith is a big part of his journey but his internal struggles for page after page and the discussions about faith between characters were tiresome. Underneath it all there was a really interesting set of ideas about first contact, etc, the stuff I wanted to explore.
I saw there was a sequel, I doubt I will ever read it. And I would be careful who I recommended this book to- it might be great for the right person, but probably not for all sci fi fans. Thanks for what you do!
Agree with every single point. Thanks hdood
Thanks for the review! I think Santoz's tragic character study is the most compelling aspect of the story. Have you read the sequel Children of God and is it worth adding to the TBR?
Thanks Robin. I'm looking forward to watching your take on it
@@FIT2BREAD Cheers - I have a review video up now
I know that's what I was referring to
@@FIT2BREAD OK thanks
You did a great job with discussing the religious aspects of this book. It's such a touchy subject with some people. I can't tell if you really liked this book lol. Whitney came at her video from a different direction which discussed first contact. It was also a great video. I personally would love to see a video with you and her discussing the book or even the hole sci-fi alliance. I imagine that might be difficult but really neat. Plus it would expose other viewers to your channels. That's how i discovered you and Whitney. Great video. Thanks
Thanks, I was trying to be as fair as possible to the book. It's funny you mentioned Whitney as we debated the book a lot while I was reading it. We even considered for a moment, doing a video together on it. Ha
@@FIT2BREAD Rats. I will comment on her video and suggest the same. Maybe I can push to make it happen lol
Ok, I DNF'd this book, and can't decide if it's worth going back to. I found the premise of a Jesuit space mission absurd, the elderly couple (late 60s, IIRC?) being among those chosen to go patently ridiculous... it just didn't work for me.
It's almost impossible for me to suspend belief enough to accept that those people would be selected for that crew
@@FIT2BREAD This would have worked better as a fairy tale, allegory.
It seems that this book is being reviewed all over the tube . Random coinsidence or....?😊. I just came from The Library Ladder . This book is worth the read and is recomended . I think its a look at the authors own journey ( my own bias religious opinion given ) . A bit like PKDs ? In some of his books . ( again my opinion ) Thanks for the well informative review .
Ahh but did they have Metallica, Sylvan??? Yes, we did all coordinate to talk about this book today. Bookpilled, Library Ladder, Media Death Cult, and The Secret Sauce of Story Craft, all have related videos
@@FIT2BREAD points for the heavy music . Loved it .
@FIT 2B READ that's a really cool idea. I'll have to come back and watch this after work.
@Sylvan Young thanks, I've been dying to cover some Metallica and it was cool that I could donit when they were releasing a new album (by coincidence)
I felt this book was written amateurishly. I’ve read another MDR book that was written way better, and I don’t know why this book felt so poorly structured and written. I enjoyed the dialogue and religious discussion, but the plot was just very weak once they arrived on rakhat. Also, it took half the book to get there, with the rest being describing the dynamics between characters that would die in 150 pages later. If this was a long series with all the characters, 250 pages might be not enough to describe the character dynamics. If it’s only going to be part of the book with their dynamics, it’s just drawn out. Anne was a good character but her and most of the rest were written very simply and predictably. Also, the action just never felt thrilling due to the knowledge of the deaths. Then the “big reveal” I was waiting for was very predictable, and just made me dislike the book even more. 2.5/5, read a rose for Ecclesiastes if you want something similar but better and 1/20 the length
Interesting review. Read this years ago and don't recall half of what you mentioned, though maybe that's for the best. I remember liking it well enough, but not enough to read the sequel. I enjoyed the Jesuit/agnostic discussions. I wasn't so sure about the sci-fi space travel. For me it might have worked more smoothly as a concise alien abduction story, instead of the clunky low budget b-moviesque set-up I ended up imagining.
That's a good way to put it. The abduction and misunderstanding after 1st contact was far more interesting than the relationships on earth prior
Very good review as it acknowledges the author's struggles within the book, going from Christianity to Judaism, via atheism. Also the criticism on characters I entirely agree with.
It strikes me as a problem that the first 11 chapters is about absolutely nothing. Those are lost chapters and then the character building had to be rushed out in the remainder of the book.
There's was also a lack of logic or reason at crucial moments. The spacetime flight dilatation error I can forgive. The persistence of the accusations against Sandoz doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The man was tortured into a pulp and this is what they came up with? Not buying it.
That's a huge shortcoming of this book. On important moments I was like:
"not buying it. She's rushing it because she wants to arrive at the end asap to tell her own message."
I'm still unconvinced if I should read it or not. Great "turn the page" conversion though :D
What's your reservation..maybe I can elaborate...
Even though she tells you how it ends from the very beginning, I still read it thinking that some how it wouldn't really happen. My likes are: the characters - yeah agree it was a bit much and no they wouldn't have really been chosen but I am a sucker for found family and the imagining of the alien planet and species was very interesting. My dislikes: the dual timeline, I would rather have read it in chronological order and what happened to the crew and the little girl alien was enough trauma, it went too far with what happened to Emilio, very difficult read and difficult to recommend. Great song for it though!
Thanks J. I have to agree with you..I would have preferred one timeline and not knowing the outcome until the end
To me, the ultimate twist or reveal wasn’t that the crew died or what happened with the young Rana or the young Rana girl, what shocked me was learning that after all his effort and faith, the music that had brought Emilio there was not a spiritual call to commune with God’s other children but pornographic music in which he later became an unwilling participant. The blow of that realization, its heaviness, was stronger than the other tragedies to me so the dual timeline didn’t bother me.
you're right this is one of your most important vids I choose nonbelief in my early twenties due to combination of reading enlightened thinkers and certain personal experiences have largely stuck with it despite one minor relapse but have great admiration for certain religious inspired writers like my own hometown flannery o'connor the sparrow is well worth reading for anyone regardless of beliefs didn't know she'd become jewish convert but well and good but one thing can't stand is people who say they're not religious but "spiritual" what the hell does that mean I'm proud to be neither also happy more and more people here are abandoning organized religion esp the evangelical and fundamentalist kind
Thanks Frank. I grew up with organized religion and it was not a match for me. Def personal experience issues/conflicts...I allow for higher power ..whatever form it may be, and I respect whatever anyone else believes as long as they aren't using it to tread on others
Thank you!👍👍👍📚🤖🚀
Thanks
Totally off topic but I have stumbled upon a book that surprised me. I think it was from the late 60s (?) - named "Immortality Inc". I read it and thought to myself "I think I stumbled upon a favorite book of at least one or two of the writers of Futurama" when I saw references to suicide booths...
Good call. I talked about this during time travel week on the channel. Thanks for sharing
@FIT 2B READ I read it waiting for an elderly scientist to walk into a room saying "good news everybody!"
The library ladder UA-cam channel posted a video about the same book the same hour as you. Is this a coincidence?
Yes LL, myself, Moid at Media Death Cult, Bookpilled, and Secret Sauce if Story Craft....we all discussed a few months back doing these all at the same time. I hope it was enjoyable and helpful more than it was overwhelming. Ha
A lot of the ambiguity in the video, (for me) comes from when you say: "I was worried it might be too heavy handed, from a religious perspective" - Do you mean it might be too preachy/creepy for comfort?
-Do you mean it perspective may be too much from inside an indoctrinated viewpoint (like modern commercial "Christian" literature?)
-Do you mean it might be too heavy handed in its allegorical drum beating "That THIS is why Religion/ Missionaries are BAD!" ?
As I listened further for elucidation I got a little turned around, instead of clarified. There were A LOT of ideas coming out of your head rapid fire, but it felt like you were referring back to an in-depth conversation we had had last night more than you positing a thesis. Or could it be I need to read the book? Maybe I'm old and just missed it.
There was a point you were making with Agnosticism and Jesuits that I didn't get - I'm assuming the *author* knows that most Jesuits are agnostic/atheist. At least all the ones *I* used to drink with were. Also, ALWAYS the most dangerous minds in the room. So, if that came across, it wasn't bias, it was background.
I DID like all the stuff about the author successfully "walking the line" and about her journey reflected in the story.
I guess I was just listening extra closely (too closely?) since this book only came on my radar when I came to watch booktube as a "newer book" on everybody's BEST OF lists. I wandered away from SF in the 90's because of a move & a disinterest in newer books. As I try to catch up, I've been really disappointed by each of these "newer landmark" books I read. I really appreciate when a reader clearly tells me he/she didn't like it. I suppose you *did* point out more dislikes than likes.
Anyhow, thank you for all the time you put into this!
I also really like the SF alliance putting out pieces on the same book all at once.
Rock on.
I think what I wanted to do most, was ask the question, "Is Russell trying to contradict the idea...'bad things happening is evidence that God doesn't exist, because...why would God allow horrific things to happen.'" I think in the novel, she is trying to make a case for "we dont know gods will, and we can overcome anything." In this regard, I did not like that the book was too much trying to subtly lead me to her way of thinking...
@@FIT2BREAD Awesome, thank you.
Oh, and I really liked you bringing up the "God Dances" quote BTW.
What about the problem of landing on a completely new planet and environment and not succumbing to alien microbes? VERY unbelievable.
This book was excellent, but also very disturbing for me. I want to read the sequel, but I need to psych myself up for it.
Have u read it recently enough, or will u need to reread it?
Nice
thanks
I know love makes no sense. But Sophie and Emileo's almost love story was forced and unnecessary.
1st encounter with 1st ship and any sign of life?
Marc: "We found a village!!" and he begins to explain the architecture
( I wanted a Mountains of Madness moment).
Anne: "Who gives a sh1t about architecture?!?".
Music indicated an 0* * *?!
Hands: Why was that done? I "hate read" the last 30pages so I may have missed something.
I agree with your criticism of the crew. These people never would have been chosen.
Great comment Robert. And thanks
I tried sooooo hard to get through this (even bought the Audible version), but tired of the heavy-handed foreshadowing and simplistic dialogue. As usual, however, I loved your review.
Thanks Steve. I think an audio version would have bothered me even more because of my aversion to some of the characters...
Great book review. It'll be a hard pass for me. Maybe she should have written two books: one sci-fi, one religious.
Good point. It sort of confirmed my hesitation to pick it up.
@@FIT2BREAD But you finished it! That's dedication.
@@BookZealots I have to once I start...ocd
@@FIT2BREAD LOL My brother is like that.