Another fun problem stone tools pose for YEC, remember that whole hydrological sorting hypothesis? The one that supposedly explains rock layers? Isn’t it weird that stone tools, despite being fucking rocks and much more dense than any animal, are only found near the top? Funny how that works.
I think they’re meant to have been made by people after the Flood but before people figured out metal and pyramids and stuff. Which leaves only a couple hundred years to make and distribute them all, and every person churning out like 50 a minute (That’s a WAG, i did no actual math)
That might be a good brain teaser for a very uneducated YEC but the ones that are really into it will respond that those tools are post flood. The harder question for them to answer is why there are no humans or human artifacts in what they would consider pre flood rock with other fossils.
@@fredfreeman2515 even if broken, they'd be right 2 times a day......and 2 times is more than the number of times the YEC morons have EVER been correct, when it comes to Science
Awesome. As an Aussie I was going to subtract points for that accent, but Snelling is such a dodgy used-god salesman he doesn’t deserve a decent impression - so I’m giving you extra. Also (and you covered this), I find it really interesting how creos will invoke natural processes to explain away indicators of design when it suits their narrative - as if we needed any further evidence that their conclusions are a priori, their reasoning motivated and their integrity mythical.
I’m half Aussie- accent wasn’t too awful for a Yank. Most denizens of the USA can’t tell an Australian accent from a Liverpudlian. I love Gutsick Gibbon.
Been a massive Erika fan since discovering the Creation Museum video last month... the Firebringer clip just... cemented that beyond belief. Gentle modern ape 4 life!
The "I don't want to do the work today" is basically the entirety of the YEC/ID movement. They want scientists to instantly accept their claims rather than do their work to put their work through peer review, correct for criticisms to further support their work, until its finally accepted.
Your presentations are brilliant. You repeat information enough times so that even I, a non scientist can remember the points. Love the accompanying images and the ye olde thyme music! Brilliant!!!
Kinda fitting that the same crowd who compares evolution to a tornado creating a fighter plane from a junkyard are the same crowd that sees stone tools and assumes it's just natural erosion.
It was a Boeing 747, not a fighter plane, and the analogy is from Sir Fred Hoyle, an atheist astronomer and mathematician. So no, not from the same crowd at all. But then it's kind of fitting that an anti-creationist wouldn't get their facts right.
@@snaptrap5558 "And that changes the analogy in some way?" No, but then you were not disputing the analogy. Merely denigrating creationists with a false claim. "Lol, good job avoiding the point altogether! XD" False. I addressed the point. You have now moved the goal posts. But again, why would I expect any less from an anti-creationist? That is a common tactic.
@@snaptrap5558 "So you agree that your comment is pointless, lol." I of course agreed no such thing. But again, trust an anti-creationist to simply make things up. It's been happening for centuries.
As a flintknapper myself (I take every opportunity I can to share that, lol) I would be weary of what we are calling stone tools. The process of knapping creates thousands upon thousands of debitage waste flakes from a single rock. In a lot of the archeological reports I have read they count each piece of debitage as an individual artifact. When I am testing and bifacing rock I can fill several 5 gallon buckets full of debitage flakes in a day so I could see how IF you are counting every debitage flake as an artifact/stone tool then it could add up quickly. Even with that said I would agree that the ages of the stone tools do preclude YEC.
I'm not sure I agree with equating tools with artifacts. I studied archaeology and while every tool is an artifact not every flake is considered a tool even if they are considered artifacts. Artifacts merely means that it's made by humans, either as a waste product or as an end product. I'll concede that chimpanzees can produce stone artifacts too. If you have links to those reports I'm actually curious to see them as what you describe would be considered bad science when I was in Uni for archaeology. (now back for geology) Other than that, yeah, YEC is clearly not possible in light of the overwhelming scientific evidence.
@@sachamarcet sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough in my first comment. At around the 4 minute mark she talks about how the number in the paper is for stone tools and artifacts. I was just stating that if you are including every flake as an artifact then those can add up quite quickly. I couldn't even begin to guess the amount of flakes I have made over the 30 years that I have been knapping. I am a full time knapper that deals in selling stone to other knappers so I am not sure if that would skew my numbers higher than a typical prehistoric knapper or not. But I wasn't trying to equate tools with artifacts. I was trying to say I would be careful about equating that total number of artidact with being all stone tools.
@@sachamarcet here is a link for an archaeological report in my area. Archaeological Data Recovery (41TR198) and Survey Within the Riverside Oxbow Project Tarrant County, Texas www.researchgate.net/publication/343609150_Archaeological_Data_Recovery_41TR198_and_Survey_Within_the_Riverside_Oxbow_Project_Tarrant_County_Texas This is under the artifacts part on page 168. "Data recovery efforts at site 41TR198 resulted in the collection of a total of 6,954 artifacts consisting of 213 pieces of flaked stone, eight ground stone artifacts, four bone or antler tools, and 6,729 fire-cracked rocks." And, "A total of 213 flaked stone artifacts was recovered from this site including eight projectile points, five formal tools, two informal tools, and 198 pieces of debitage." If we only include the stone tools in this report then it would only be 23, 15 actual chipped stone tools and 8 ground stone tools verses the almost 7,000 artifacts reported.
@@sachamarcet in all fairness to Erika, I should have glanced at the Lithics Landscape paper she linked first. It does break that down into the average debitage per stone tool made and accounts for that.
7:15 If I'm understanding what the min and max are representing correctly here, isn't she presenting the case that it still doesn't matter if the flakes are mistaken for tools or not? Given the proposed population size and the absurd tool making factory *each person* would have to be, the time allotted to YEC still can't come close to a fraction of tools and flakes we have.
Gutsick Gibbon, At this point I’m surprised that I haven’t heard a single creationist claim that the speed of light is instantaneous and that the nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were fake.
I actually got into an argument with someone (although in UA-cam comments) that lead to this topic once. I explained that it didn't matter that we can only measure the speed of light with a two-way measurement, that measurement still implies that one of the ways isn't instantaneous. So, the light coming from a star from at least one direction to Earth has to be old. They never got back to me after that. I recently found out that the Mössbauer effect can be used to demonstrate that the speed of light must also be the same in every direction, which implies the two-way measurement does in fact lead to a proper measurement of the speed of light regardless of direction.
@@DataDr0id Lisle means the one way speed of light is near-instant. Einstein only had a convention of the one way speed, it can't be measured. I don't buy that's the solution, but still, don't mis-characterize his position.
Psh, if tools were made from stone, then why are there still stones? Next thing you know they'll be trying to convince us that things can be made from wood when there's clearly still trees.
Even worse, they will try to claim that we have today, after we already proved we had yesterday. Totally illogical and obviously fully hooman. Dur dur dur.
I came here from a new Standing For Truth video in which they had you talking about the human and chimp Y chromosome. They decided to quote-mine a paper to further their narrative. But I'm glad I got here! Subbed!
I lived and worked in the remote bush in the Pilbara region of Western Australia and just about every water hole I used I could pick up stone cutting tools that had been discarded. They were easy to identify because of the sharp worked cutting edges and the way they fitted into my hand. I think this stone is mainly chert . I have also been to the area on the Shaw river in this region which has the possibly oldest fossils every found, 3.5 billion yo?
How long did it take to build Noah`s arc? One hundred-year-old was supposed to knock down a three in the woods, drag into a shipyard, process it, and finally tie it in the whole sheep. I challenge all YEC members in the world to try to make a 10 meter long boat. Ten of them, one month, but to do all that only with tools from Stone Age. 🤣😂
Since yesterdays bite size bust about Chr2 I’ve been binging the whole series. The firebringer clip was so *chefs kiss* perfect I needed to say thank you!! You certainly got to work 😂
"Creationism Geologist" - now I have seen everything. Not mentioning that initial geologists were creationists and they already knew that earth is OLD.
YECs should just stick to Last Thursdayism. As soon as they venture into science their claims fall apart, whereas miracles can explain everything. Their best response to science was probably the inquisition.
The Bible completely skips over the neolithic and chalcolithic eras and jumps straight into crafting with bronze and iron. Genesis 4:22 - "Zillah also bore Tubal-cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah." Talk about an anachronism.
I like this argument.Though most of the theist that I have argued with will see that "God has just allowed Satan to plant evidence that makes the earth look old". When I ask to what end? They don't have an answer but remain committed to their position.
I'm a believer but that argument has never made any sense to me. What? Why would God do that? It makes no sense but then most of YECs say makes no sense.
@@harrietharlow9929 it’s the sort of conundrum you get when you worship a book instead of a god, either all of its true in the most literal sense or none of it is true. Noah’s flood covered the tallest mountains so it has to be a flood that covers Everest, there’s no chance it could be a local flood with a big fish story exaggeration, the universe had to be made in 6 literal days, it couldn’t be poetry. When it comes to that all or nothing attitude every sense of reality has to be distorted in order to make the book true, if the book conflicts with observable reality then reality is wrong. It’s crazy.
i remember cleary as it was yesterday, when i was 11yo(1993) at the frist year of middle school the history teacher help us to create (whit modeling paste, real stones where too dangerous in kids's hands) some stone tools.
I remember a similar discussion - only the other way round. There was this book of Michael Brandt "Vergessene Archäologie" in which he claimed that there are many stone tools almost as old as the dinosaurs. What he wanted to say of course is that humans lived along side with dinosaurs. Then the counter argument was that these are not artefacts but geofacts since no primates lived as early as that.
it's genuinely insulting to look at knapped tools that require a planning mind and say "da flud did dat" when you look at the chaotic nonsense in the universe and scream that it's too ordered.
They claim that the universe shows that there was an intelligent designer behind, but this so called “creation” is a disaster, and they only claim that based on a book that contradicts itself.
You'd think the post-flood people would have work to do besides carving thousands and thousands of primitive stone tools in their lives. You know like farming, herding, caring for their families, and making Bronze/Iron tools? It's like the definition of a just-so story combined with lots of excuses, instead of actually providing evidence.
@@origamiswami6272 That's what all those trillions of stone chips are - Egyptians hand knapping the stone blocks used in the pyramids 😉 Different type of stone? don't worry it was the Egyptians knapping off the flint that disfigures all that nice limestone, pink granite and basalt that you need for a pyramid 🤣 oh wait you don't find flint in combination with all those types of rock, god did it then 🤔
@@100weirdnessbyvolume8 That brings up quite an image of a group of Egyptians frantically knapping at huge blocks of stone to get rid of the flint inclusions. Lol.
The world of a YEC where pre-flood civilizations had super-advanced technology and were reduced to 8 people, but a great number of those descendants went back to stone tools while the rest decided to enter the Iron Age. I don't think changing the language of humans would lead to such an outcome given how few people were on the planet after their flood.
What about indigenous people across America, Africa, Asia, Europe, and Australia? Don't forget most of human history has been far more primitive, even the descendents of less primitive people won't have a technological memory without a written record.
@@wesleycolemanmusic Yeah but regular science doesn't say that humans were super advanced prior to any of those indigenous peoples, so in our model they all started out primitive and some stayed that way.
@@Rayrard There have been archeological finds, such as Göbeklitepe, that date to the early stone age according to secular scholarship. So advanced structures and technology have been a part human history since the beginning of known history. However, there's no reason to be skeptical about much technology and knowledge being lost in a great deluge. It works with the Biblical model, so places such as Göbeklitepe are consistent with our model, for sure.
@@wesleycolemanmusic Those early Neolithic sites are advanced by standards 6000+ years ago, but certainly not anywhere near "advanced". This was still a Stone Age or early Bronze Age site. No signs of any "lost technology". Maybe some knowledge, but there is no technology there. There was no ancient global deluge aside from the post Ice Age megafloods, and science has already known about this for some time.
@@Rayrard What supplied the water for the ice that would later cause these megafloods, do you think? Loss of knowledge is inevitably loss of technology.
To say nothing of your great video craft, impressive accomplishments and intelligence (congrats on the thesis), you are so cute and I love watching your videos
I go backpacking in the mountains and deserts of California. I frequently find stones that appear to have been knapped or altered to form a tool. My companions often tell me: "yeah right, you think you found a museum-quality archeological artifact just by looking 2 feet off the trail!" For a time I believed them, but then I got to thinking that the regions I hike in had been continuously inhabited for probably 20,000 years or more. Tools were constantly being produced, probably at the rate of more than one per year at each desirable habitation site. Some would be buried by sediment, but some would be exposed by erosion. Some would be carted off by archeologist, but once they had 100 for their museum, they probably wouldn't need many more. So now I am not surprised when I see such things, and take moment to reflect on the age of this technology and the mind of its makers. (This of course says nothing about the much longer record in Africa)
Surely geologic processes would be like a pebble beach ,all rounded smooth stones . because that's what water movement and time does ,it does not crack open the stones.
I hate creationists. When you give them irrefutable evidence debunking their claims they just isnore it. This is tacity admitting their claims are bunk but they keep proclaiming them as ever.
the thing that has really confused the crap out of me when it comes to YECs, the Gobekli Tepe its dated to 9500 BCE. assuming 10,000 year old earth for YEC, that means that the earth was created in 7979 BCE meaning that the Gebeklie Tepe is over a thousand years older than earth. what!? zero sense. When will they simply just give up?
AIG, ICR, and CMI all claim that since all artifacts of human history were destroyed in the flood (2 Peter 3v5-6) because there were hot water and lava geysers everywhere, Gobekli Tepe and any other such artifact (Stonehenge, Great Pyramids) must date to after ~2450 BCE. Carbon dating anything is useless, so all those secular archaeologists are all wrong.
Besides the references you offered, I'll toss in some related work by the technical authors: Lombard, Marlize, Anders Högberg, & Miriam N. Haidle. 2018. “Cognition: From Capuchin Rock Pounding to Lomekwian Flake Production.” Cambridge Archaeological Journal 10 (April): 123-167. Mercader, Julio, Huw Barton, Jason Gillespie, Jack Harris, Steven Kuhn, Robert Tyler, & Christophe Boesch. 2007. “4,300-Year-old chimpanzee sites and the origins of percussive stone technology.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 104 (27 February): 3043-3048.
Just a side-note to 8:08 / 8:30 : Babel would not be in today's saudi-arabia, but rather further north, in today's Iraq, the northeastern part of the peninsula; this is also the location of the 2 rivers (Euphrates & Tigris) that formed ancient Mesopotamia.
Isn't there a "too many fossils" problem, too? If all of the fossils in one place had to be created during the flood year, animals would have to be stacked on top of each other at the beginning of the year.
The other thing is that it's not consistent with all this if the incredibly bizarre distribution of tools. The expected prediction of young Earth creationists would be rapid progression of less sophisticated stone tools to more sophisticated ones. That is, the hammer and anvil period is extremely short. The crude flake period a bit longer, the Oldowan period a bit longer, the Aechulian period longer still, the Mousterian period longer than that, and the highly sophisticated neolithic and civilized stone age works of master artisans like Clovis points and non-knapped, atomically smooth and sharp Aztec obsidian blades. Instead we find the exact opposite. Hundreds or thousands of times the number of early stone tools as neolithic and copper age.
It's easy. After drowning almost everyone and everything on earth, God was really bored and, missing being able to kill things, killed time instead by making and burying billions of stone tools.
Beautifully-produced, perky mini-takedowns but alas unlikely to cause a creationist to reexamine their beliefs. YEC is a badge of political identity and a defense of faith, in which arenas no weapon is off-limits. One cannot convince a person for whom denial of reality is the tool of first resort.
"Beautifully-produced, perky mini-takedowns but alas unlikely to cause a creationist to reexamine their beliefs." Given how it is clearly directed at anti-creationists, with some of the "arguments" being, effectively, "this doesn't fit with the secular view", and with mockery and derision, why should we? "One cannot convince a person for whom denial of reality is the tool of first resort." Which is why creationists have so much problem convincing anti-creationists. The point being that creationists and anti-creationists dispute what is and isn't reality.
Actually, not true. Individual people comment all the time about how these videos gave this or that person the tools they needed to turn "is this creationist stuff as good as it sounds" to "damn, my doubts were well founded, YEC doesn't work."
Obviously god created stones on the 2nd day of creation to LOOK as though they had been used by humans millions of years ago! I mean, why stop with just starlight, right?
Erica, you show a beautiful side scraper (i think levalois, made by neanderthals) and tell answers in genesis "explanation" of how that could be formed by natural process. this is very difficult to make by hand, whoever made that particular tool was somebody with many years of experience and creationists make believe this is just a rock. on the other hand, it's super interesting to hear the impossible mountain of trillions of stone tools in Africa alone! not only that, if you go to any prehistoric site, as you certainly did, you will find hundreds and thousands of stone tools and debris before you find a human bone
Haha! Great video again. Although to me, you're preaching to the chior (ha! Get it?) and the YEC's will likely stick their fingers in their ears and blah, blah, blah what you're saying, I do suppose there will be a certain number of people on the fence, who may be swayed by your thoughtful, evidence based arguments. This is a wonderful service you're providing for those people. Well done! I find your videos very entertaining and interesting even though I already believe the science.
Something you missed the opportunity to comment on: Snelling says that he has never seen these "chipped rocks" in the Americas or Australia, aswell as that they apparently aren't everywhere in Africa. But he proposes that they are formed by catastrophe, and the catastrophe he proposes is a global one, which means that we should find these "chipped rocks" all over the Earth but he himself says that we don't...
The best thing is, that creationists debunk creationism themselves by arguing that the so called "eoliths" (pseudo-artifacts from tertiary) are man made stone tools! In other words, they degradate real stone tools to pseudo-artifacts and hype pseudo-artifacts to stone tools. And they disregard, that eoliths would raise the number of "artifacts" by at least one magnitude. :-D
The estimate for the total number of stone tools sounds high, since there wouldn't be the same number of tools being made across every square mile of the continent. The approach here is interesting, and I suspect that the method does yield yet another demonstration that YEC is impossible, but the conclusion about the number of stone tools needs refining.
So this is a smaller video, meaning I didn't feel compelled to go through the "lithics" paper on camera. But you ought to give it a read, as it outlines that tools AND flakes are included. There are still trillions of tools, but flakes compound that to the potential 150 trillion (and additionally have diagnostic characteristics.
The book of Genesis says someone about 7 generations removed from Adam and Eve was a metalworker of bronze and iron (!!). So YEC gotta explain *when* in their timeline people primarily used stone tools.
here's a byte I been thinking about. Doesn't our language complexity show way more than 6000 years? not sure how to calculate it but no way we went from speechless to cities in 2 generations.
I’m sure somebody could calculate language drift speed based on the variation among Latin derivatives across time or something. Sadly, the creationist hypothesis is that all languages were created too when God said “f you, Babel”. Still has the same issue of there being so many identical cross-cultural relationships based on geography, but I’m sure that’s just another absurd “created diversity” that happens to fit perfectly with geography and evolution.
@@charliemallonee2792 The "God created all the languages at Babbel" takes world class handwaving even by their standards. Languages "evolve" and with care, these can be traced. But even someone who merely travels in the western world will see the ultimate silliness of the Babbel story. If God really wanted to confound speech, modern day Italians would speak Navaho, Japanese would speak French, and Comanche would speak Icelandic. No realations, in other words, to languages geographically nearby. Oh, and we'd all be using utterly unique pictographic symbols in our writing for each language. Not syllabaries or phonetics.
Truly amazing. Thanks for this video! I think most people have never heard about the piles of stone tools in Africa. I've seen some of these pictures before. But there's one thing I don't understand. Why would you put any work into making a new stone tool when the ground is already half-covered in 2nd-hand stone tools?
Hi, you asked, why would you put work into making a new stone tool when there are hundreds of 2nd hand ones laying around. I’m only an amateur, but I would assume that’s the ones laying around are not suitable for the specific job, the maker of the new tool required. Certainly stone cutting blades, lose their sharpness fairly quickly.
Hi....my study is stone tools....many of the stone tools in my collection have images of extinct animals....cave bear, mammoth, horse and great sloth....these tools were made using the uniface method of splitting the stone....and these stones speak of the faith of the ancients...
The only thing I learned from this video is that I have to now watch a musical called "Firebringer" by any means necessary. (Looked up the song that was included in this video and it's a forking bop!) (Honestly, great work to add to my anti-creationist arsenal!)
So a stone tool is just natural processes but a tree shows obvious signs of intelligent design. Huh. Creationists are funny.
I believe the term is "silly bitches".
Another fun problem stone tools pose for YEC, remember that whole hydrological sorting hypothesis? The one that supposedly explains rock layers? Isn’t it weird that stone tools, despite being fucking rocks and much more dense than any animal, are only found near the top? Funny how that works.
Kinda shocked I've never heard or seen that pointed out.
@@iami3rian394 I know, it occurred to me during GG’s stone tool video, and I’m surprised she didn’t go there.
I think they’re meant to have been made by people after the Flood but before people figured out metal and pyramids and stuff. Which leaves only a couple hundred years to make and distribute them all, and every person churning out like 50 a minute
(That’s a WAG, i did no actual math)
@@alisaurus4224 you mean the flood that didn't actually happen and which there is zero evidence of?
That might be a good brain teaser for a very uneducated YEC but the ones that are really into it will respond that those tools are post flood.
The harder question for them to answer is why there are no humans or human artifacts in what they would consider pre flood rock with other fossils.
Imagine yourself walking through a field, and you come across 15 trilllion pocketwatches...
At least I'd know what time it was.
@@matthewsmith1779 broken. All are broken!
@@fredfreeman2515 even if broken, they'd be right 2 times a day......and 2 times is more than the number of times the YEC morons have EVER been correct, when it comes to Science
@@leeshackelford7517 Only if the hands are still attached.
I'd wonder who the hell put them there. Then I'd sell all of them to make big bucks.
So, I imagine that young earth creationists will show us all those natural stone tools in Antarctica and other places man didn't populate.
Yecs are just jealous because they haven’t achieved stone tool technology yet.
Awesome. As an Aussie I was going to subtract points for that accent, but Snelling is such a dodgy used-god salesman he doesn’t deserve a decent impression - so I’m giving you extra.
Also (and you covered this), I find it really interesting how creos will invoke natural processes to explain away indicators of design when it suits their narrative - as if we needed any further evidence that their conclusions are a priori, their reasoning motivated and their integrity mythical.
I’m half Aussie- accent wasn’t too awful for a Yank. Most denizens of the USA can’t tell an Australian accent from a Liverpudlian.
I love Gutsick Gibbon.
No no no, extra extra points for the Aussie accent. It would grind ken's gears
Been a massive Erika fan since discovering the Creation Museum video last month... the Firebringer clip just... cemented that beyond belief. Gentle modern ape 4 life!
This is pure gold. It may be your best video to date!
My gosh... Within a single sentence of your Snelling monologue I was giggling. Thanks for that.
The "I don't want to do the work today" is basically the entirety of the YEC/ID movement. They want scientists to instantly accept their claims rather than do their work to put their work through peer review, correct for criticisms to further support their work, until its finally accepted.
Your presentations are brilliant. You repeat information enough times so that even I, a non scientist can remember the points. Love the accompanying images and the ye olde thyme music! Brilliant!!!
I loved it!
This series should be on TV.
Great work, as always!
At least make it into a coffee table book.
Take a Hint from Kramer, a stone tool that turns into a coffee table. Now you have something that will sell.
Kinda fitting that the same crowd who compares evolution to a tornado creating a fighter plane from a junkyard are the same crowd that sees stone tools and assumes it's just natural erosion.
It was a Boeing 747, not a fighter plane, and the analogy is from Sir Fred Hoyle, an atheist astronomer and mathematician. So no, not from the same crowd at all. But then it's kind of fitting that an anti-creationist wouldn't get their facts right.
@@PJRayment And that changes the analogy in some way?
Lol, good job avoiding the point altogether! XD
@@snaptrap5558
"And that changes the analogy in some way?"
No, but then you were not disputing the analogy. Merely denigrating creationists with a false claim.
"Lol, good job avoiding the point altogether! XD"
False. I addressed the point. You have now moved the goal posts.
But again, why would I expect any less from an anti-creationist? That is a common tactic.
@@PJRayment So you agree that your comment is pointless, lol.
@@snaptrap5558
"So you agree that your comment is pointless, lol."
I of course agreed no such thing. But again, trust an anti-creationist to simply make things up. It's been happening for centuries.
Your so amazing! Your videos are always really fun and interesting. I enjoy your predictions of how the YEC will "debunk" your work.
Nice. I particularly liked your impression of Ken Ham doing an impression of F. W. de Klerk :)
Super dope Playlist! I'm really glad I've found your channel.
As a flintknapper myself (I take every opportunity I can to share that, lol) I would be weary of what we are calling stone tools. The process of knapping creates thousands upon thousands of debitage waste flakes from a single rock. In a lot of the archeological reports I have read they count each piece of debitage as an individual artifact. When I am testing and bifacing rock I can fill several 5 gallon buckets full of debitage flakes in a day so I could see how IF you are counting every debitage flake as an artifact/stone tool then it could add up quickly. Even with that said I would agree that the ages of the stone tools do preclude YEC.
I'm not sure I agree with equating tools with artifacts. I studied archaeology and while every tool is an artifact not every flake is considered a tool even if they are considered artifacts. Artifacts merely means that it's made by humans, either as a waste product or as an end product. I'll concede that chimpanzees can produce stone artifacts too.
If you have links to those reports I'm actually curious to see them as what you describe would be considered bad science when I was in Uni for archaeology. (now back for geology)
Other than that, yeah, YEC is clearly not possible in light of the overwhelming scientific evidence.
@@sachamarcet sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough in my first comment. At around the 4 minute mark she talks about how the number in the paper is for stone tools and artifacts. I was just stating that if you are including every flake as an artifact then those can add up quite quickly. I couldn't even begin to guess the amount of flakes I have made over the 30 years that I have been knapping. I am a full time knapper that deals in selling stone to other knappers so I am not sure if that would skew my numbers higher than a typical prehistoric knapper or not. But I wasn't trying to equate tools with artifacts. I was trying to say I would be careful about equating that total number of artidact with being all stone tools.
@@sachamarcet here is a link for an archaeological report in my area.
Archaeological Data Recovery (41TR198) and Survey Within the Riverside Oxbow Project Tarrant County, Texas
www.researchgate.net/publication/343609150_Archaeological_Data_Recovery_41TR198_and_Survey_Within_the_Riverside_Oxbow_Project_Tarrant_County_Texas
This is under the artifacts part on page 168.
"Data recovery efforts at site 41TR198 resulted in the collection of a total of 6,954 artifacts consisting of 213 pieces of flaked stone, eight ground stone artifacts, four bone or antler tools, and 6,729 fire-cracked rocks."
And, "A total of 213 flaked stone artifacts was recovered from this site including eight projectile points, five formal tools, two informal tools, and 198 pieces of debitage."
If we only include the stone tools in this report then it would only be 23, 15 actual chipped stone tools and 8 ground stone tools verses the almost 7,000 artifacts reported.
@@sachamarcet in all fairness to Erika, I should have glanced at the Lithics Landscape paper she linked first. It does break that down into the average debitage per stone tool made and accounts for that.
7:15 If I'm understanding what the min and max are representing correctly here, isn't she presenting the case that it still doesn't matter if the flakes are mistaken for tools or not? Given the proposed population size and the absurd tool making factory *each person* would have to be, the time allotted to YEC still can't come close to a fraction of tools and flakes we have.
Articulate and entertaining (Snelling accent was uncanny, ha),
Gutsick Gibbon,
At this point I’m surprised that I haven’t heard a single creationist claim that the speed of light is instantaneous and that the nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were fake.
Jason Lisle precisely claims that the speed of light is instant, as long as it's pointing at Earth.
@@DataDr0id,
And that is arguably even more absurd.
I actually got into an argument with someone (although in UA-cam comments) that lead to this topic once. I explained that it didn't matter that we can only measure the speed of light with a two-way measurement, that measurement still implies that one of the ways isn't instantaneous. So, the light coming from a star from at least one direction to Earth has to be old. They never got back to me after that.
I recently found out that the Mössbauer effect can be used to demonstrate that the speed of light must also be the same in every direction, which implies the two-way measurement does in fact lead to a proper measurement of the speed of light regardless of direction.
@@DataDr0id Lisle means the one way speed of light is near-instant. Einstein only had a convention of the one way speed, it can't be measured. I don't buy that's the solution, but still, don't mis-characterize his position.
@@wesleycolemanmusic One way speed of light is bullshit.
I'm so happy being a gentle ape after this video. Great job Erika!
Psh, if tools were made from stone, then why are there still stones? Next thing you know they'll be trying to convince us that things can be made from wood when there's clearly still trees.
Even worse, they will try to claim that we have today, after we already proved we had yesterday. Totally illogical and obviously fully hooman. Dur dur dur.
Good analogy.
I'm really enjoying this series! Thanks!
I came here from a new Standing For Truth video in which they had you talking about the human and chimp Y chromosome. They decided to quote-mine a paper to further their narrative.
But I'm glad I got here! Subbed!
It’s almost like Snellings’s argument is like a tornado in a junkyard can magically assemble a 747.
I lived and worked in the remote bush in the Pilbara region of Western Australia and just about every water hole I used I could pick up stone cutting tools that had been discarded. They were easy to identify because of the sharp worked cutting edges and the way they fitted into my hand. I think this stone is mainly chert . I have also been to the area on the Shaw river in this region which has the possibly oldest fossils every found, 3.5 billion yo?
I had never thought about the number of stone tools we've found, but it makes perfect sense.
How long did it take to build Noah`s arc? One hundred-year-old was supposed to knock down a three in the woods, drag into a shipyard, process it, and finally tie it in the whole sheep. I challenge all YEC members in the world to try to make a 10 meter long boat. Ten of them, one month, but to do all that only with tools from Stone Age. 🤣😂
The Creationists will just say that Noah had pet Dinosaurs to do all the heavy lifting.
Why do you assume Noah was in the stone age?
i thought it took 120 years to build
@@andrewjones9547 by that time amost all of the wood would have rotted
@@rowbot5555 wait how did they keep the wood from rotting on actual ships?
That was a fun intro animation. You have many talents.
Since yesterdays bite size bust about Chr2 I’ve been binging the whole series. The firebringer clip was so *chefs kiss* perfect I needed to say thank you!! You certainly got to work 😂
This new "explanation" of the Stone Age is Jar-Jar Binks level stoopid.
Whoever dreamed this one up owes IQ points.
"Creationism Geologist" - now I have seen everything. Not mentioning that initial geologists were creationists and they already knew that earth is OLD.
Martin Rudwick has a fascinating book on the discovery of deep time by 17th century geologists. Well worth reading.
@@stefanlaskowski6660 Another good read is: "The Rocks Don't Lie - a geologist investigates Nosh's Flood" by David R Montgomery.
@@stefanlaskowski6660 I wasn't aware that knowledge of deep time went that far back. I will have to check that book out.
That Snelling impression was perfect
YECs should just stick to Last Thursdayism. As soon as they venture into science their claims fall apart, whereas miracles can explain everything. Their best response to science was probably the inquisition.
Somehow I knew eventually I would see a Starkid reference in one of your videos and it was glorious.
The Bible completely skips over the neolithic and chalcolithic eras and jumps straight into crafting with bronze and iron. Genesis 4:22 - "Zillah also bore Tubal-cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah." Talk about an anachronism.
I like this argument.Though most of the theist that I have argued with will see that "God has just allowed Satan to plant evidence that makes the earth look old". When I ask to what end? They don't have an answer but remain committed to their position.
I would ask them why their god is a liar that would allow honest people to be tricked without any means to spot the lie.
I'm a believer but that argument has never made any sense to me. What? Why would God do that? It makes no sense but then most of YECs say makes no sense.
@@Mostlyharmless1985 Hardly sporting is it?
@@harrietharlow9929 it’s the sort of conundrum you get when you worship a book instead of a god, either all of its true in the most literal sense or none of it is true. Noah’s flood covered the tallest mountains so it has to be a flood that covers Everest, there’s no chance it could be a local flood with a big fish story exaggeration, the universe had to be made in 6 literal days, it couldn’t be poetry. When it comes to that all or nothing attitude every sense of reality has to be distorted in order to make the book true, if the book conflicts with observable reality then reality is wrong.
It’s crazy.
Your Ken Ham is on POINT!
i remember cleary as it was yesterday, when i was 11yo(1993) at the frist year of middle school the history teacher help us to create (whit modeling paste, real stones where too dangerous in kids's hands) some stone tools.
I remember a similar discussion - only the other way round. There was this book of Michael Brandt "Vergessene Archäologie" in which he claimed that there are many stone tools almost as old as the dinosaurs. What he wanted to say of course is that humans lived along side with dinosaurs. Then the counter argument was that these are not artefacts but geofacts since no primates lived as early as that.
Okay your use of Firebringer at 17:27 was PERFECT
Love the video! Keep up the great work
Love your work!
Great bust!
Loved the funny clips 😆
it's genuinely insulting to look at knapped tools that require a planning mind and say "da flud did dat" when you look at the chaotic nonsense in the universe and scream that it's too ordered.
They claim that the universe shows that there was an intelligent designer behind, but this so called “creation” is a disaster, and they only claim that based on a book that contradicts itself.
That was a fantastic intro you did in the debate with Ken Hovind!
Another bite-sized gem. A splendid tool for future use.
Just rewatching this for fun
That Australian/South African/New Zealander accent was fantastic! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
From an Aussie.
Welp, i just got side tracked for 2 hours watching Firebringer… thanks gutsick gibbon!!
This is a great bust! Love it. Thank you so much, Erika.
BTW, what is your own accent?
You'd think the post-flood people would have work to do besides carving thousands and thousands of primitive stone tools in their lives. You know like farming, herding, caring for their families, and making Bronze/Iron tools? It's like the definition of a just-so story combined with lots of excuses, instead of actually providing evidence.
Nah, it was an ancient fad hobby. Sort of like scrapbooking but with stones
Not to mention building the Egyptian pyramids
@@origamiswami6272 That's what all those trillions of stone chips are - Egyptians hand knapping the stone blocks used in the pyramids 😉
Different type of stone? don't worry it was the Egyptians knapping off the flint that disfigures all that nice limestone, pink granite and basalt that you need for a pyramid 🤣 oh wait you don't find flint in combination with all those types of rock, god did it then 🤔
@@100weirdnessbyvolume8 That brings up quite an image of a group of Egyptians frantically knapping at huge blocks of stone to get rid of the flint inclusions. Lol.
I’ve had the “I don’t wanna do the work today” song stuck in my head all day!
I very nearly splorted my tea at that point.
I sing it on a nearly daily basis 😂
I love Erika's Andrew Snelling impression so much!
^__^
The world of a YEC where pre-flood civilizations had super-advanced technology and were reduced to 8 people, but a great number of those descendants went back to stone tools while the rest decided to enter the Iron Age. I don't think changing the language of humans would lead to such an outcome given how few people were on the planet after their flood.
What about indigenous people across America, Africa, Asia, Europe, and Australia? Don't forget most of human history has been far more primitive, even the descendents of less primitive people won't have a technological memory without a written record.
@@wesleycolemanmusic Yeah but regular science doesn't say that humans were super advanced prior to any of those indigenous peoples, so in our model they all started out primitive and some stayed that way.
@@Rayrard There have been archeological finds, such as Göbeklitepe, that date to the early stone age according to secular scholarship. So advanced structures and technology have been a part human history since the beginning of known history. However, there's no reason to be skeptical about much technology and knowledge being lost in a great deluge. It works with the Biblical model, so places such as Göbeklitepe are consistent with our model, for sure.
@@wesleycolemanmusic Those early Neolithic sites are advanced by standards 6000+ years ago, but certainly not anywhere near "advanced". This was still a Stone Age or early Bronze Age site. No signs of any "lost technology". Maybe some knowledge, but there is no technology there. There was no ancient global deluge aside from the post Ice Age megafloods, and science has already known about this for some time.
@@Rayrard What supplied the water for the ice that would later cause these megafloods, do you think? Loss of knowledge is inevitably loss of technology.
To say nothing of your great video craft, impressive accomplishments and intelligence (congrats on the thesis), you are so cute and I love watching your videos
I go backpacking in the mountains and deserts of California. I frequently find stones that appear to have been knapped or altered to form a tool. My companions often tell me: "yeah right, you think you found a museum-quality archeological artifact just by looking 2 feet off the trail!" For a time I believed them, but then I got to thinking that the regions I hike in had been continuously inhabited for probably 20,000 years or more. Tools were constantly being produced, probably at the rate of more than one per year at each desirable habitation site. Some would be buried by sediment, but some would be exposed by erosion. Some would be carted off by archeologist, but once they had 100 for their museum, they probably wouldn't need many more. So now I am not surprised when I see such things, and take moment to reflect on the age of this technology and the mind of its makers.
(This of course says nothing about the much longer record in Africa)
ROFL at the Snelling accent.
Surely geologic processes would be like a pebble beach ,all rounded smooth stones . because that's what water movement and time does ,it does not crack open the stones.
I hate creationists. When you give them irrefutable evidence debunking their claims they just isnore it. This is tacity admitting their claims are bunk but they keep proclaiming them as ever.
the thing that has really confused the crap out of me when it comes to YECs, the Gobekli Tepe its dated to 9500 BCE. assuming 10,000 year old earth for YEC, that means that the earth was created in 7979 BCE meaning that the Gebeklie Tepe is over a thousand years older than earth. what!? zero sense. When will they simply just give up?
Never would be my guess.
AIG, ICR, and CMI all claim that since all artifacts of human history were destroyed in the flood (2 Peter 3v5-6) because there were hot water and lava geysers everywhere, Gobekli Tepe and any other such artifact (Stonehenge, Great Pyramids) must date to after ~2450 BCE. Carbon dating anything is useless, so all those secular archaeologists are all wrong.
@@haggismcbaggis9485 does that mean i can finally call them out for science denying????
No. They have 1 Timothy 6:20 which gives them dibs on deciding which science is true science and what is falsely called so.
@@haggismcbaggis9485 of course they do. I now understand why most actual science fields simply ignore them
"...over and over and over again..."
"Yes, like attempted explaination to young Earth creationist it sounds. Hmm..."
Gutsick Gibbon does a great Australian accent
Your Snelling accent wanders between Australian, New Zealand, and South African :-D
Only fitting, since Snelling's mind wanders from being pretend normal geologist to super-convinced young earth "geologist".
Just like his arguments 😃
Besides the references you offered, I'll toss in some related work by the technical authors:
Lombard, Marlize, Anders Högberg, & Miriam N. Haidle. 2018. “Cognition: From Capuchin Rock Pounding to Lomekwian Flake Production.” Cambridge Archaeological Journal 10 (April): 123-167.
Mercader, Julio, Huw Barton, Jason Gillespie, Jack Harris, Steven Kuhn, Robert Tyler, & Christophe Boesch. 2007. “4,300-Year-old chimpanzee sites and the origins of percussive stone technology.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 104 (27 February): 3043-3048.
Dunno, maybe Adam was bored in the garden of Eden and made all those trillions of stone tools 😂😂😂
Paradise becomes boring after a while.
A guy's got to have a hobby.
Duh. Do you know how many tools you can make in 900 years?
@@fredfreeman2515 I agree. People don't think about it that way.
Just a side-note to 8:08 / 8:30 : Babel would not be in today's saudi-arabia, but rather further north, in today's Iraq, the northeastern part of the peninsula; this is also the location of the 2 rivers (Euphrates & Tigris) that formed ancient Mesopotamia.
Keep up the great work, GG!
Isn't there a "too many fossils" problem, too? If all of the fossils in one place had to be created during the flood year, animals would have to be stacked on top of each other at the beginning of the year.
The other thing is that it's not consistent with all this if the incredibly bizarre distribution of tools. The expected prediction of young Earth creationists would be rapid progression of less sophisticated stone tools to more sophisticated ones. That is, the hammer and anvil period is extremely short. The crude flake period a bit longer, the Oldowan period a bit longer, the Aechulian period longer still, the Mousterian period longer than that, and the highly sophisticated neolithic and civilized stone age works of master artisans like Clovis points and non-knapped, atomically smooth and sharp Aztec obsidian blades.
Instead we find the exact opposite. Hundreds or thousands of times the number of early stone tools as neolithic and copper age.
It's easy. After drowning almost everyone and everything on earth, God was really bored and, missing being able to kill things, killed time instead by making and burying billions of stone tools.
Killed time, haha
Luvin the Ausie accent! Great work.
Great Starkid refrence!
That reminds me, I have a broken stone axehead lying around in my room at home that I found somewhere near my old middle school.
I missed this!
Curse the YT algorithm and notiFAILcations!
Cool stuff ms. Gibbon!
Beautifully-produced, perky mini-takedowns but alas unlikely to cause a creationist to reexamine their beliefs. YEC is a badge of political identity and a defense of faith, in which arenas no weapon is off-limits. One cannot convince a person for whom denial of reality is the tool of first resort.
This is true, but this may be a wakeup call for some people on the fringes (the non-extremist ones, i mean), which is worth the effort IMO.
"Beautifully-produced, perky mini-takedowns but alas unlikely to cause a creationist to reexamine their beliefs."
Given how it is clearly directed at anti-creationists, with some of the "arguments" being, effectively, "this doesn't fit with the secular view", and with mockery and derision, why should we?
"One cannot convince a person for whom denial of reality is the tool of first resort."
Which is why creationists have so much problem convincing anti-creationists. The point being that creationists and anti-creationists dispute what is and isn't reality.
Actually, not true. Individual people comment all the time about how these videos gave this or that person the tools they needed to turn "is this creationist stuff as good as it sounds" to "damn, my doubts were well founded, YEC doesn't work."
Obviously god created stones on the 2nd day of creation to LOOK as though they had been used by humans millions of years ago! I mean, why stop with just starlight, right?
Erica, you show a beautiful side scraper (i think levalois, made by neanderthals) and tell answers in genesis "explanation" of how that could be formed by natural process. this is very difficult to make by hand, whoever made that particular tool was somebody with many years of experience and creationists make believe this is just a rock. on the other hand, it's super interesting to hear the impossible mountain of trillions of stone tools in Africa alone! not only that, if you go to any prehistoric site, as you certainly did, you will find hundreds and thousands of stone tools and debris before you find a human bone
Intelligent design vs "Intelligent Design". Gotta love it!
Great vlog, Erika ♥️
Haha! Great video again.
Although to me, you're preaching to the chior (ha! Get it?) and the YEC's will likely stick their fingers in their ears and blah, blah, blah what you're saying, I do suppose there will be a certain number of people on the fence, who may be swayed by your thoughtful, evidence based arguments.
This is a wonderful service you're providing for those people.
Well done!
I find your videos very entertaining and interesting even though I already believe the science.
Thank you Gutsick Gibbon, love the music by the way.
As a New Zealander I find your Ausie accent ... Bloody funny.
Something you missed the opportunity to comment on:
Snelling says that he has never seen these "chipped rocks" in the Americas or Australia, aswell as that they apparently aren't everywhere in Africa. But he proposes that they are formed by catastrophe, and the catastrophe he proposes is a global one, which means that we should find these "chipped rocks" all over the Earth but he himself says that we don't...
I admire your patience dealing with creationists, however I don't see what use there is in discussing science with people who don't believe in it.
Well I guess she figures it's worth it if she gets one or two of them thinking.
The best thing is, that creationists debunk creationism themselves by arguing that the so called "eoliths" (pseudo-artifacts from tertiary) are man made stone tools! In other words, they degradate real stone tools to pseudo-artifacts and hype pseudo-artifacts to stone tools. And they disregard, that eoliths would raise the number of "artifacts" by at least one magnitude. :-D
well presented.
The estimate for the total number of stone tools sounds high, since there wouldn't be the same number of tools being made across every square mile of the continent. The approach here is interesting, and I suspect that the method does yield yet another demonstration that YEC is impossible, but the conclusion about the number of stone tools needs refining.
So this is a smaller video, meaning I didn't feel compelled to go through the "lithics" paper on camera. But you ought to give it a read, as it outlines that tools AND flakes are included. There are still trillions of tools, but flakes compound that to the potential 150 trillion (and additionally have diagnostic characteristics.
The book of Genesis says someone about 7 generations removed from Adam and Eve was a metalworker of bronze and iron (!!). So YEC gotta explain *when* in their timeline people primarily used stone tools.
Love your content. Great work
here's a byte I been thinking about. Doesn't our language complexity show way more than 6000 years? not sure how to calculate it but no way we went from speechless to cities in 2 generations.
I’m sure somebody could calculate language drift speed based on the variation among Latin derivatives across time or something. Sadly, the creationist hypothesis is that all languages were created too when God said “f you, Babel”. Still has the same issue of there being so many identical cross-cultural relationships based on geography, but I’m sure that’s just another absurd “created diversity” that happens to fit perfectly with geography and evolution.
@@charliemallonee2792 The "God created all the languages at Babbel" takes world class handwaving even by their standards. Languages "evolve" and with care, these can be traced.
But even someone who merely travels in the western world will see the ultimate silliness of the Babbel story.
If God really wanted to confound speech, modern day Italians would speak Navaho, Japanese would speak French, and Comanche would speak Icelandic. No realations, in other words, to languages geographically nearby.
Oh, and we'd all be using utterly unique pictographic symbols in our writing for each language. Not syllabaries or phonetics.
@@curious968 Clearly, God is not a god of confusion: he did such a shit job at it.
Truly amazing. Thanks for this video! I think most people have never heard about the piles of stone tools in Africa. I've seen some of these pictures before. But there's one thing I don't understand. Why would you put any work into making a new stone tool when the ground is already half-covered in 2nd-hand stone tools?
Hi, you asked, why would you put work into making a new stone tool when there are hundreds of 2nd hand ones laying around. I’m only an amateur, but I would assume that’s the ones laying around are not suitable for the specific job, the maker of the new tool required. Certainly stone cutting blades, lose their sharpness fairly quickly.
But rocks were invented 6000 years ago!
That picture from 2015 mimics the famous evolution of man poster... I'm guessing that was the intent?
Well, stone me!
10/10 for the Aussie accent.
I like your bite-sized videos focusing on one thing.
Very interesting! Thank you!
Hi....my study is stone tools....many of the stone tools in my collection have images of extinct animals....cave bear, mammoth, horse and great sloth....these tools were made using the uniface method of splitting the stone....and these stones speak of the faith of the ancients...
Nice Andrew Snelling accent!
The only thing I learned from this video is that I have to now watch a musical called "Firebringer" by any means necessary. (Looked up the song that was included in this video and it's a forking bop!)
(Honestly, great work to add to my anti-creationist arsenal!)
Who does your openings? I love it
Afaik, she made them herself
She drew them herself