Vacuum table on a hobbyist CNC? AirWeights Review/ first Impressions.
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- Опубліковано 29 бер 2024
- In this video, we take a look at the Air Weights vacuum hold-down table, priced at $750. Is it a worthwhile addition to your setup? Initial impressions suggest it's pretty cool! However, I still need to delve deeper and familiarize myself more with its capabilities. Nonetheless, experimenting with it this week has been a blast!
At first glance, the price might seem steep, but in comparison to other systems, it's surprisingly more affordable. I'm intrigued to see how it measures up against a homemade setup. With further exploration, I anticipate discovering more applications, possibly rendering screws and double-sided tape obsolete! Stay tuned for more insights as I spend more time with this innovative tool.
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Files used in video will be available for free to paid patrons!
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Hamilton also has a video on this: • The Affordable CNC Woo...
CNC bits used:
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Items used in video:
Magnet strips: amzn.to/43G7BcH
Kinetic power switch: amzn.to/4ayXCb5
Surfacing bit: amzn.to/43UQtQB
Other useful items:
Masking Tape: amzn.to/3SafPnm
Titebond 3: amzn.to/3OMMI9O
Glue roller: amzn.to/3DKZgbv
Best mechanical pencil: amzn.to/411ZxBf
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Measuring calipers: amzn.to/3KotkOu
Spindle we use:
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Pnw spindles: pwncnc.com/?ref=VOrUUqwnXKgGK
CNC Bench:
Kreg Universal bench 64" rails - amzn.to/3nDIAK3
Kreg Universal bench rails 44" - amzn.to/3nAmZ5j
Kreg Leg kit - amzn.to/365qmwb
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#cnc #onefinity #Vacuumtable - Навчання та стиль
Just thought I'd share my $.02.
You're on the right track if you're looking into vacuum beds. What I would suggest is looking into making your own out of plywood for the entire work surface of the machine. Yes you lose some Z space, but it's worth it if you never really use the full space to begin with. There are tons of guides online. That bed needs to be your new work table, so you cannot just place it down with locators and call it flat, because it can still warp from heat, be lifted by upcut and vibration, and/or shift from the looseness of the locators. It needs to be either bolted or screwed on as a new bed, and the new surface along with the gasket pockets needs to be made BY the machine when the new bed is in place. This way you can guarantee a true zeroed in Z axis across the surface and a bed that does not move. The pump is the biggest downfall of the thing. It's perfectly fine for designs that don't cut through into the vacuum pocket, but for designs that do you will need a high flow bed and a pump that can keep up with the loss of pressure. And then the extra talk about filters for the pump and spoilboard for the preservation of the bed that doesn't need to be really gotten into right now. The self made bed I'm talking about is only a half sheet of 1/4 ply and a half sheet of 3/4 ply, with a cheap-ish regenerative pump used as a vacuum source. You could even use a shop vac if you don't plan to hold your parts down for too long to burn it out. (give or take 30 minutes? varies)
If you want you can contact me for assistance. I've made quite a few of these for different size Shapeoko routers, and up to 5x10 commercial routers. A lot simpler than it seems. You have very good energy and good head on your shoulders, I would hate to see your time wasted because of sub-par products or people who simply comment "super!" and don't constructively criticize. Mistakes is where we learn, and the faster you know these mistakes the better.
With the MDF I think I remember seeing you should seal the edges, maybe worth a try. Thanks for the video.
I definitely will, I need to order the membrain with the holes first and I’ll give it another try. Thanks for watching!
This is a good start down the rabbit hole. I recommend taking caution if you’re cutting through because you don’t want chips or dust getting down Into that vacuum unit. I have the black box vacuum system Storm unit with a full size hdpe bed that is the vacuum plenum. I use gasket for non-cut through. I have an MDF/ldf system with the foam sticker on top too. I love not needing to use clamps anymore if I don’t want to. Journeyman original BB controller. I’d love to have the elite. Great job on this intro to the vacuum world.
Thanks for the tips! The elite is pretty neat! Love the extra features and ease of use. I have a BB machine as well it it’s just fine, I do miss my x box controller on the elite 😆
I built something similar simply using MDF & a shop vac,
I was doing a project that involved sheet aluminum & polycarbonate, while the vacuum table isn’t the best on small parts like you are doing here, it is a must on large sheet material.
When I first got my OneFinity I debated a vacuum holding system. I ultimately decided against it and your video validates my personal reasons. Thanks for showing it in various ways along with the potential accessories. We all have our own ways of working and its great to see what works for others.
Absolutely! Most people that have had a 𝙲𝙽𝙲 for a bit have their wasteboard tuned to what they do. This will definitely be a great supplement clamping system. It’s strong suit would be batching out the same carves, set up would be super easy but again depends what you make on a regular basis.
Wow. Your absolutely the first one to actually admit that you can't cut all the way through. It seems every one else kindly misses that very important part. That is very good to know for someone who has never had one. I never thought about it myself.
Which is why I wanted to do a video as someone who doesn’t know what their doing 😆 hoping it would answer the questions I had. I do need to order the membrane to see how that works. I’ve been using it all week and I leave less than .03” left and do two drums sander passes and works great. But not everyone has that option.
I saw on the manufacturers you tube page that he cut through the material. Seems like you have to cut into a sacrificial piece of MDF so the piece doesn't lose suction.
Hey brother. Can you share the speed and power settings you used to engrave on the switch?
A few comments/observations.
A larger vacuum pump wont really help with the MDF because of the air channels on the plenum aren't large enough to allow proper air flow. These pumps are high suction, low volume pumps. So your items need to be pretty air tight to work.
I built something similar to this years ago and it works great if you set it up properly for repeated tasks. If this had been available back then I probably would have just bought it.
I would cut out some clear 1/4" acrylic tops to go over it, and use sheets of cover gasket for All Star CNC to make custom vacuum fixtures. You offset your tool path, so the gasket cuts just inside your cut path and you go cut all the way through the part into the acrylic a few .010", and you can do 100s and 100s of these without tearing up your gasket. Once you have the cover gasket cut to shape, you remove the excess gasket and manually drill holes through the acrylic so that the air can suck through it and hold you part down. You can cut out pretty small parts that are repeatable and reliably. I make acrylic parts that are around 1" square and they do not lift. You can make as many of these as you want. You just zero your X-Y to a corner of the fixture and go.
All Star CNC has a bunch of blog posts of customer fixtures that you can see to get ideas from that will work awesome for a someone starting out. Those large 10 HP pumps are about 10-15k and require 3 phase power, so are out of reach for most people just starting out...
Thanks for the input! I have some membrane for the mdf on the way. Definitely great for repeatable cuts, the fixture plate would be great for slapping down the same sized item over and over. Thanks for watching! I definitely have alot to learn yet, excited to learn it
We have a 3 phase pump for our CNC. Works great for cabinet parts! Only problem is, I don't have our spoil board tied down to the table or bolted; on smaller projects (not huge sheets of plywood or HDF) I'm stuck having to turn the whole vac system on, and then isolating the suction to one quadrant. Mind you this isn't quiet AT ALL. I've ended up just turning on the entire table and just taping projects with CA glue or screws.
I wish there were some way to have a hybrid spoilboard that is rigid enough for projects without the vac on, but doesn't have metal T tracks that my bits could hit cutting out cabinet parts.
Nice - thank you for the review! For my purposes, I would want a way to place a piece on the vacuum panel in exactly the same location - I'm sure a spacer jig could be done. This certainly would solve any clamping issues, when I need to cut around the edges of a piece.
The black plate would be perfect, I think it’s called the fixture plate. You could mill out the perfect area for it to set into. It’s a non pourus surface so it will only sucks where you cut out. Thanks for watching!
@@TwoMooseDesign How much does each fixture table/plate cost? If one were to use this for different sized parts, you'd have to have one fixture plate per part.
You could probably get a few out of one you’d just have to plug off that section. I believe the plates are $40? I don’t think it would be hard or make your own, you’d just have to seal it off somehow, it’s almost like a melamine.
I believe the reason MDF didn’t work for you is probably because you haven’t surfaced both sides initially for air to be drawn. As for workability, it holds pretty well and if whole table is exposed, you can simply use any loose leaf or printer paper to cover non used are. As for me… $750 would buy me a LOT of blue tape. Sorry if it was sponsored, but being honest here. As a fairly new CNC user, $750 would buy me a new water cooler spindle.
Oh no! No worries at all! And most likely, I didn’t want to waste much time on the mdf until I ordered the membrain for the top. And I agree I stated that in the video it’s not for everyone especially new users. I’d buy a spindle over a vacuum bed. Not paid but he did send me the unit.
Do you feel that I would need a torsion top for my elite journeyman which I’m going to install on a Kreg table as well.
Neither one of mine have one. As long as you have multiple supports in the middle you’ll be fine
@@TwoMooseDesigngot it. Thanks a lot
Good start but you need a little more direction. Get with Air Weights and All Star CNC, use the MDF along with the All Star membrane. Your results will be night and day.
I definitely have alot to learn! I’ll order the membrane soon too.
Well, that's an addition that I can honestly see myself destroying it with time. Guess I'll just stick with common hold-down methods.
Regular hold down methods work just fine too! What ever works best for your set up
what dust collector do you use ?
Rocklers wall mount unit dust right I believe is their brand
I like your CNC. What Brand/Model/Size is it?
its a onefinity foreman 48x48"
use a uncoated medium-density fiberboard for the vaccum table... it works
I’ll try that!
You could easily build a vacum table out of mdf and grooves with your CNC, for 1/10 of the price.
How much time would go into making it and designing it though? Your time isn’t free. I recently bought several work benches because by the time I factored in my time and materials I about broke even and saved a ton of time. But for some that just like to tinker around it’s definitely an option.
@@TwoMooseDesign I think that on a different context, I would 100% agree with you, but honestly here, it's way too expensive.
Making a grid out of MDF or even better HDPE or Delrin/POM with the actual CNC you are trying to build it for is trivial.
If you're interested in this system use this 10% off code: TWOMOOSE
This is an affiliate code and we get a small kick back at no cost to you. airweights.com/
Honestly,
I can't see anyway that this will pay for itself.
$750 & now you are limited to being able to go full penetration.
I see for any possible time saved with this setup, you will quickly loose with additional sanding, band sawing & or trim router-ing.
This little vac setup just has a very small nitch application for it to be worth anything.
I guess I have just mastered holding down my projects via other means.
Thanks for sharing the good & bad on this product.
My first thought was. Ok but you can't cut through
Thanks for watching! Have you used a vacuum table before? If so what did you think?
I wouldn't spend 700 usd for that, i find it useless at that size, i would spend that money to buy 1 pvc board and make my own vacuum table on the whole cnc. I think the pump is indeed too small but you can work with that and laminate boards without any problems, the more porous the surface is the worse the suction is.
Have you used a diy set up? I’m curious how well it works. My concern with the diy set is how much will it cost me and how much work goes into setting it all up. That’s the reason I went with a pre made bench, by the time I added up my time and materials I pretty much broke even on buy vs building. Thanks for watching!
To be honest I have not, but I took the time to study how industrial cnc vacum tables are made and it's incredibly easy. For reference, some chinese router factories use each machine to make it's own table as a test. You can do it 2 ways, using 1 board or 2 boards sandwiched and glued together, PVC is enough, although if you want to go for the best solution, either HDPE or POM or Phenolic Resin board is the way to go.
Last but not least, you're suppose to use an LDF/MDF spoilboard with sealed edges on top of the vacuum table, never cut over it directly, this will also fix your cut through problems
@@TwoMooseDesignI can post photos for help of my own router for you to see how the table is made as soon as I get to my shop ( I also have a 10 HP vacuum pump )
Ohhh a 10hp would be amazing! I’d need more power ran 😆
@@TwoMooseDesign haha 😆 I am lucky to have found a small space in an industrial area in my hometown. My router has an 8kw spindle, an 8kw vacuum pump and huge NEMA 34 steppers so without 20kw of power minimum I wouldn't be able to run it. But in regards to the pump aside from the fact that it's very, VERY Loud, the fixing power is amazing, it can hold even small parts really easy and makes cutting almost anything a breeze.
Nice system. But, the price is ridiculous.
I do wish it was around $500-600 but I have no idea what any of that costs. I’m sure it’s not cheap 🤷🏼♂️
😂 ADHD side quest!
Story of my life 😆
@@TwoMooseDesign mine, too, but currently much less productive.
No thanks...I'd rather use clamps. Doesn't make sense to use if you can't use a spoil board. Pointless.
You can with the fixture plate and mdf. I also have a drum sander which makes it easy to remove that last tiny bit
Honestly just clamp it and cut tabs. That is such a waste of time and sand paper
Why did you delete my comment? Bits & Bits clearly ripped off Cody's design for these bowl bits. Maybe do a video and compare the two? Maybe do a video comparing the two. Just remember, Cody's was first.
I didn’t delete any comments? And I don’t know anything about anything like that. Cody’s great and so are his bits. I don’t keep up with all these different bit companies and who makes what. I have bits and bits, Cody’s bits, IDC bits, white side, Amana, and some cheap Amazon bits I don’t use them with any sort of intent, they all work well. Zero chance I’m getting into any 𝙲𝙽𝙲 bit company drama.
@@TwoMooseDesign No worries. It probably got removed because I linked to Cody's shop. I totally understand not wanting to get in the middle of any drama. I just want to make sure Cody gets the credit he deserves. Take care fellow Wisconsinites!
Once you understand how vacuum works on professional cnc... You will immediately know that this Mat is useless