Unveiling the Truth: Diesel-Electric Tech Discussion
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Our in-depth response on diesel-electric technology, following a recent video from Watch West Work. We're going to break down and analyze the practical applications, benefits, and drawbacks of diesel-electric systems, with a special focus on Edison Motors, an ambitious startup from British Columbia.
Edison Motors has made waves by building a hybrid diesel-electric semi-truck from scratch, demonstrating significant potential for the future of transportation. However, as with any emerging technology, there are nuances to consider. We discuss the feasibility of their retrofit kits for semi-trucks and pickup trucks, considering the various applications and potential fuel savings.
Join me as we delve into a candid and detailed conversation with the team from Edison Motors and DeBoss Garage. We'll cover the challenges, innovations, and real-world implications of their diesel-electric hybrid systems. We also examine the calculations and assumptions behind their claims, offering a balanced perspective on what could be a game-changer in the automotive world.
Through this video, we aim to provide clarity on this complex topic, exploring how diesel-electric technology can shape the future of transportation, the challenges it faces, and the realistic expectations we should have. If you're passionate about the future of automotive technology and love deep technical dives, this video is for you!
🚀 Don’t forget to hit subscribe for more automotive technology deep dives, and leave your questions and comments below - let’s keep the conversation going!
#EdisonMotors #DieselElectricHybrid #AutomotiveTechnology #InnovationInTransportation #FutureOfTrucks #WatchWestWork #DeBossGarage #TransportationTech #CarTechnologyExplained
00:00 - 00:23 Chace Intro
00:23 - 01:29 Watch Wes Work Intro
01:29 - 01:54 Retro-fit Market Makes Sense
01:54 - 04:18 Trucks have We Built, Investors We Have, Installer Network
04:18 - 04:39 Real World Results?
04:39 - 05:18 Estimates and Wild Guesses?
05:18 - 06:21 Pickup Truck / Heavy Truck Fuel Savings?
06:21 - 06:38 What does fuel savings mean?
06:38 - 08:21 Miles Per Gallon?
08:21 - 08:54 Vocational Trucks are Not Highway Trucks
08:54 - 12:17 Vocational Trucks Are Not Driving Max Power Down The Highway All Day
12:17 - 12:49 More Efficient, Regenerative Braking, Efficiency
12:49 - 17:03 Electric Motor Efficiency
17:03 - 18:03 Gearing Between Axles
18:03 - 21:37 Torque
21:37 - 25:49 Regenerative Braking
25:49 - 28:27 Citing Long Haul Highway Studies To Use Against Vocational Trucks
28:27 - 29:09 Edison Made The First Series Hybrid Heavy Truck
29:29 - 29:49 Understanding The Difference Between Highway and Vocational Truck Use
29:49 - 31:22 Locomotive Concept and Efficiency
31:22 - 32:29 Wes Is Unable to Understand Vocational Truck Use
32:29 - 36:39 Heavy Truck Cost, Economics, Individual Use Case
36:39 - 38:38 Pickup Truck Kit Price
38:38 - 43:10 Wes Has A Spread Sheet
43:10 - 49:24 Edison Motors Spread Sheet
49:24 - 51:14 It’s Not For Every Truck
51:14 - 52:41 Solvable Issues to Overcome
52:14 - 54:02 Engine, EV Kits and Swaps Have Been Around A Long Time
54:02 - 55:42 EV Mandates
55:42 - 57:21 Promiss To Eat Crow
57:21 - 58:35 It’s Not One Size Fits All
58:35 - 02:10:39 Group Chat With Wes - Авто та транспорт
This is pretty insane a company can come out and respond to criticism and explain clearly what they are doing.
Yeah, what they are doing...developing a truck to go up and down hills day in and day out. To bad everyone else thinks they are going to save every truck driver 5 to 100% on their fuel. BIG Disconnect!
It is rather refreshing isn't it..
It's like that meme about the difference between asking a question about something important and putting it to a religious type or a science teacher.. the first tells you, you have to believe and not question. The other explains the idea and the principles step by step and invites you to test it, then for good measure asks you if you have any other questions or ideas to test. 👍🏼😉🧙🏼♂️
@D2O2 the fuel savings or lack there of are the least important note here. The shake up to the industry standards of pushing planned obsolescence is far far more important.
@@deathless12345678 I wouldn't hold my breath on them actually shaking up industry standards. If there was a competitve advantage to not produce products with finite life then certainly it would have been done by the existing big boys. An ever changing product offering with new styling and features is necessary to continue selling new products.
I really love Edison’s ethos, but I see a lot of disconnect between what they say and what people think about their product. 100% agree with right to repair and service views, however I hear more hype about them from my connections to the oil and gas industry in Alberta and sask, than I do from the local logging industry operating around me in SE BC. That tells me that the “works for vocational logging in the mountains” taking point is falling on deaf ears.
I'm a crane operator, and when you guys started talking about the torque that you get from the electric motors. Taking off from lights with a crane that weighs over 90k is so time-consuming and frustrating when you finally get up to speed and get caught by the next light. I thank a Link-Belt or Grove truck crane would be so cool with this system integrated. Especially when working at night in a residential neighborhood with it making lot less noise.
Being able to drive to a worksite before morning rush hour because you can beat noise by-laws could allow what would be a 2 day job to be done in one day. Not having the engine idling while setting up and rigging the load would make the neighbours happy (or at least less unhappy)
The possibilities are endless.
The cost savings of having your drivetrain be your generator would also be nice.
I have two takeaways from this. I no longer feel like my kitchen counter is a mess. I no longer feel like my shop is a mess.
Lol
Only if you are as busy as these guys...
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?" - Albert Einstein
One big factor that helps heavy haul is drive line shock. Having to start out from a stop on a 15% grade with 120,000lbs machine on. You are unloading or your driveline is going to scatter. This allows you deliver power slowly and without the shock of a clutch.
Even loaded down pickups, where the driveline is at less favorable angles. Stopping then starting at the crest of a big hill where you then have to get out in front of traffic quickly because of short sight distances. There are a lot of advantages to this system.
You gotta rub the deniers faces in it...
I'm so glad you guys came together to discuss this. I couldn't stop thinking about Wes's video because he made good points from a different point of view. But Wes is all for the right to repair AND he is a Electric Engineer with a ton a machining experiences. I knew you guys would be able to find common ground. Wes will be a phenomenal ally in the corn/rust belt.
The right to repair is not a fad. It is a revolution that takes us standing together and not tear ourselves apart. In the worlds of a famous Canadian, We're all in this together.
Keep your stick on the ice.
In the words of another not so famous Canadian, "We're all here because, we're not all there"
Wow! Nice work, red green reference in hybrid semi truck discussion lol
Do you have a link to Wes's video? I can't find it
@@SimonToivoTelhaug same
Chase I love the fact that you were real down to earth person you’re sitting at home in your kitchen having a video telling it like it is it’s awesome
I still am trying to get you on the old RV conversion idea. It makes SOOO much sense. having solar and a big ass battery bank is the standard already. Most RVs also have a generator as well as the normal engine (2 birds 1 stone). And having a diesel heater piped into the same tank as a diesel generator saves more space and complexity. I would give anything to convert my 88 Astro Tiger to a 4wd diesel electric hybrid.
An RV conversion makes so much sense!
One of the reasons I reserved a truck conversion kit is specifically for a RV hauler. Going to plug my RV directly into the truck and use it for power all night. Eventually I will add some batteries to the RV that will give a nice EV range extension to the Truck. Not only will I get efficiency gains in fuel milage, but also a lot of silent power while camping.
I agree much more than 100% makes it possible to. I'm in Australia so I know it will be forever or never to reach over here, but I want a conversion so badly I can taste it. I have an old 1995 Toyota Landcruiser Troop carrier that is kitted out as my expedition vehicle and it has been around and through all of Oz 9 times in the last 10 years and it weighs 4000Kgs/8800lbs, so I already have the spring setup for a pair of heavy electric axles. This includes things like the Simpson Desert twice and all but the single hardest track, the Canning Stock Route, as well. I have a 200AH Lithium battery onboard but ha to me. I have to carry 660 watts of solar panels to make sure I can charge up the battery every day which is a huge pain to setup and then take back down every time I move to the next free camp as there are too many humans in van parks. I also have a 150Amp alternator for those days when there isn't enough solar to get me recharged enough but running the engine for a couple of hours a day on top up days scares me due to glazing issues on the diesel engines cylinder bores. I also have 320 litres/84 gallons of diesel tanks on board as there are places where the price of diesel is more expensive than rib fillets per kilogram, so it pays to fill up and go 1200kms and not have to fill up at those places. For my use, after I stay here a bit longer for some medical issues, your system makes 100% sense especially as I only get about 15 to 17 litres per 100 km's of fuel mileage. So please hurry up guys as I think I'm going to win the lottery soon haha.
@@texacolayep… it is a long way to nowhere, and the liquid weight adds up fast.
@@EdisonMotorsthe RV conversion is exactly what I'm interested in! I want to convert my f450 that carries my truck camper. I'd have all the battery I would need and a generator as a backup. Boondock for as long as my water holds out. It would be the ultimate setup!
Thanks for putting this out. I was surprised to see Wes pull his video and the rumor on the street was Layers forced him, and it made since and I heard nothing from Him, Debos or You guys so it seemed liked most likley true.
I like seeing these conversations and open discussion.
#RightToRepair
We got a bit of a laugh out of those rumours.
I live in my parents basement and those people thought we had money to spend having lawyers go after you-tube stars 😂
- Chace
BEST 2 Hrs ever! That was the most interesting video I've ever seen! Thank you Wes for putting your head above the parapet and sticking up for yourself ! You have done what I hoped you would do, as a supporter of yours, I could make out what you were trying to put across, but honestly failed miserably. You are so much better than that video! As to Chase and Co, well you are who you are and that is why I support you too. Rich, well there is nothing I could say other than "well said Rich", you know the practice of the task and can help all others in the smaller aspects of the "potential" for this project. WELL DONE TO ALL INVOLVED. Thanks too from UK.
Thanks mate!
I was unable to watch WWW's video before it was taken down. What was he trying to get across, and how did he "fail miserably"? I also haven't finished this video yet, so take my question with a grain of salt
I get a kick out of the comments. Half of them are commenting on the debate abilities of both parties and totally missing the actual conversation. Edison blew the other guy out of the water because they are building logging trucks for the BC communite. Hands down they win on that account everytime. City trucks also come out on top everytime. Long haul does not come out on top but they never claimed it would in fact they say the opposite. The conversion comes into play when you have a blown drive train not buying a new truck and putting their drive train in it. Apples to oranges.
Wow, the way he explained the power band and need to shift makes it super clear that he understands the problem from an angle that I don't think it would be possible to get without his actual experience as a trucker. Trying to get a diesel truck started from a dead stop sounds like a huge headache compared to what Edison has in their truck.
That’s why we’ve been saying is the best people to innovate products are the people that actually use them
If you ever watch a heavy haul truck try and pull a load from a dead stop up a hill, they will spend just as much time shifting gears as they do in the power band. It’s even worse in a manual transmission where you are double clutching it so your transmission doesn’t commit seppuku. A CVT would be the next evolution in transmissions, except they can’t handle the torque loads. An electric axle gives that smooth power band from 0 rpm while reducing the drivetrain complexity by an order of magnitude.
Just watch a truck trying to cross a road from a set of lights... Already 7 gears in and the nose hasn't crossed the other line yet.
Wes may not be a logger, but he does have solid experience with semis
@@chrisE815I find that difficult to believe.
The new Ramcharger truck that will be coming out in 2025, made by Dodge, will be a series hybrid. It has a fully electric drivetrain, with a ICE generator for range extension. I like that Dodge is going Edison hybrid before producing a full EV truck. Like Edison the Ramcharger will have the benefits of the EV drive train and range of a gas vehicle.
The Ramcharger name is so good too. A classic name but very practical for the model.
I don't understand why we haven't been doing hybrids this way all along, why did it take this long to happen?
@wild_lee_coyote it sounds like RAM is actually releasing their battery electric truck first before the series hybrid.
While the series hybrid sound intriguing, that thing has to be expensive. It still has a 90 kWh battery on top of an engine, generator and other ICE components. I would think it cost just as much as the fully electric if not more.
The hybrids should be 2500/3500 and they should make a 1500 full EV. I think a lot of people who think they need a hybrid truck and have a level 2 charger at home will see that they don't run the engine often and realize something like the long range silverado or lightning would have been just fine.
The advantage of the series hybrid is long range towing so make it a tow rig rated truck because it's going to be cummins level heavy anyway.
Quick comment here about series vs parallel driveline. I work on vocational trucks here in sweden. If we take scania as example, because they have parallel (and thus a driveshaft down the middle, the batteries are on the sides. And because these are work trucks with hydraulics, the batteries take up the ENTIRE sides. No space for tool boxes, sand boxes, or anything else. So a hidden advantage for a series connection to free up space inside the chassis.
among other benefits for a vocational truck. if i get a compatible pickup i'll get the edison conversion kit done to it and then get some inverters, extra fuel capacity, and use the truck as a generator too.
What's this about sandboxes??
@alvindueck2104 think of a upside down triangular box with a roller on the point edge. When activated the box tilts to push the roller into the tires, which turn the roller and slowly release sand in front of drive tires. Look up 'slirej' google images
I’d like to point out that this guy said the Chevy volt as well as the Prius are parallel hybrids. The Chevy volt is a series hybrid, and the only production car to be a series hybrid.
@@alvindueck2104 google images 'slirej'
I work in a predominantly rural ambulance service in the UK. There is currently a mandate to make the entire UK fleet electric by 2030. Electric Ford Transits are currently being trialled in London Ambulance Service. As far as I can make out from manufacturer data, a high GVW model has a range less than 100 miles not exceeding 55mph. This doesn't take into account the electrical load of emergency systems, conversion and medical devices. We could see the battery dead before the first patient gets to hospital. We also have the issue of often holding outside hospitals with a patient on board for many hours. We currently run 4.2t 3.0L TDI Fiat's that have to cope with alternating between being driven like a sports car at up to 100mph, and then potentially idling for 10 hours - it's trashing them. A conservative estimate on fitting EV chargers at ambulance stations and hospitals is around £100 million. Full electric doesn't make sense in the ambulance application, a high-performance hybrid does.
"sorry we have to stop for 30 min at this charger before we can get you to the hospital"
I worked as an emt in the states. We had certain trucks we couldn't idle or it would trash the emissions systems. As you know, sometimes you HAVE to idle them. To combat this, we would have some gas trucks, but the gas engines would be trash in about 150000 miles. These kits from Edison would be perfect for ambulances.
Also a medic in the US. I've been advocating as hard as possible for the Edison kits to be retrofitted into ambulance units. School buses and metro bus fleets make sense as well.
@jacobhall8092 In the UK we have the New Routemaster double-decker buses, which are I gather are series hybrids like the Edison setup - they are gradually being converted to full electric. They had issues with faulty batteries, causing them to run full diesel (battery bypass?), causing slow performance and greater emissions than the straight diesel buses they replaced.
@@MrSebmeister There's always a chance there will be problems. Edison will not be immune to this. There is a chance they will respond better to these problems, as they are developing things slower.
Part of the confusion, especially with MPG, is the fact that an electric vehicle works a bit differently. In a gas or diesel vehicle the engine is constantly on. Up hill, down hill, parked at a light, or hauling a heavy load, it all uses gas so you can easily average that to get an MPG. Electric vehicles add some extra complexity. Regenerative breaking allows you to recover some of the energy used in the vehicle. Electric vehicles work great in city traffic with low speeds and lots of stop and go. ICE engine work best at highway speeds where the gearing and the high energy density of the fuel allow for long distance and greater efficiency. Edison is focused where you can maximize the advantage of the electric drivetrain, but add the flexibility of a diesel generator. Trying to calculate what a MPG would be is much more job and location dependent than a simple ICE. Topsy could see a vastly different MPG just by changing which logging camp he picks up his logs at. The only way you will see an increase in fuel usage over a traditional ICE is if you have to sit idle while the batteries charge, and then have the generator running continually while hauling the load.
3.6 liter diesel running at optimal rpm/optimal fuel consumption. Compared to a 6.7 / 13 liter diesel running at all different ranges and loads. Even the most skeptical mind can see the advantages of such a thing.
If you're only driving off of the energy created by the engine, then it is simply mpg. Not mpge! The Prius (non-plug-in) is listed as MPG.
The way people drive makes a big difference.
When I’m being civilized as far as driving is concerned. I make a set of brake shoes last for ever. So regen I couldn’t take full advantage of as say my wife. Her driving habits uses the brakes 3 times more than me. And consequently more fuel. So there’s that.
Miles per Gallon is just the wrong mesurement for non distance based apllications like Welding/service trucks, there is a mesurment like hours per Gallon much more intersting, as they said, 1 hour of driving and 8 hours of idle, the drive part is not where you want improve your efficency
@@bmiles2011Dont forget the electric components even if they are very efficent are not 100% efficent. Lets asume Generator, Charger/Inverter and Electric drivemotor each have 95% efficency in combination you are down too 86%, when you cycle the batterys you have more loses depending how much they get used. Lets asume the Edison Truck gets 83% driveline efficency.
A mechanical drivetrain gets 95%, the big questin is can the smaller engine in the Diesel Electric truck be efficent enough to compensate the additional drivetrain loses?
In a highway situation maybe but barely, for vocational stuff like logging in the mountains or trash trucks, sure it will work.
For a pickup that is mostly drive on normal roads it probably want make sense from a fuel saving point, will be different if you can safe an additional engine for like a welder as an example.
Some thoughts.
1 ½ hours of my time...... WELL SPENT!!!!!!
This is a reminder of what a conversation is. Thank you for that.
I hope Wes links this video to his video to highlight this conversation. Invitation made (sorta accepted) at the end.
Hopefully the 1 ton works out for the trades to power job sites. - answered
Crowd funding/engineering = a great thing.
V/A Motors is the truck that got me intrigued about series electric.
Being transparent on UA-cam = a great thing.
Someone once told me "don't test a electric car or you WILL find a way to pay for it" it is that much fun.
Edison's development is advancing transportation choices, and I see great value in what they're doing. Transportation has always been a continuous incremental study and improvement. If no one was brave enough to experiment and improve, we'd be measuring our progress in bushels of oats per mile and comparing the motivational capability of buggy whips. Thanks for walking through with your current developments in mind.
Nice job on calmly responding to Wes... look forward to getting my kit to put into an old retro pickup truck!
Even if Eddison Motor's produced a normal heavy duty truck with a good diesel engine and mechanical driveline, they'd be a great truck. I like the simple practicality. The only thing I'd change is the foot pedals, hang them from the firewall, just to make it easier to clean. My work boots are caked in a lot of mud. Seems trivial but it'll save time and a lot of swearing. Been following these fella's from day dot, they're great. Saying hi from Tasmania, the logging island state of Australia 🇦🇺 🍻👍
All parties involved are real humans capable of critical thinking, this is what we need. Wes' video was important, this video and collaboration is/was vital. I wish he would've left his with follow up. He was still ultimately humble and open minded while admitting lack of information and context, and the conversation is still exactly what we need in this fight.
My take on all this is that the large manufacturers simply ignore this niche vocational market because it is simpler, cheaper and more efficient from a corporate standpoint to make standard ICE powered trucks rather than create another specialty group that would actually compete and complicate their product lines more than compliment them.
Chase, I've dreamt of and imagined nearly everything you have done and talk about for 15+ years except I wanted to do it starting with an old M48 Willys jeep as a farm utility and camping rig. The genset would slide in and out of the engine compartment enabling me to leave it behind at home or camp for base or E power. I only want 30ish miles of range on battery for local runabout and would rarely need the genset to be on board at home. The genset would allow multiple utility uses and the range extend for longer mountain forays.
In my case of central eastern Pa it is all I need and perfect, but also allows for trailering to big sky adventure.
Keep it open and honest as you have and keep going man! Best of luck.
Large manufacturers need a large market in order to be able to make a profit. Highway trucks are a large market. Niche products are not. For example the Tesla semi makes a massive amount of sense for both Tesla and Tesla's customers, but wouldn't make any sense for Edison. On the other hand Tesla couldn't make a profit on logging trucks due to the low volumes. They need to be able to sell thousands and thousands year after year.
@celeron55
Yes, I agree, but Tesla is a special case in wanting to break open the large semi and car markets to electric drive. I'm sure Elon is quite aware of the heavyhaul and utility segments. I'm also sure he could have tackled those markets quite successfully if he chose to, but it would bring only limited, incremental exposure and benefits to his long stated goal of bringing E propulsion to the masses.
I like some of what he does, but I honestly don't care for the ahstetics of the cyber truck or his motorcycle, so I'm glad he didn't glam up the heavy and ute trucks😂
HA so I get 250 miles out of my truck but the nearest charging station from me is 140 miles to the nearest rapid charge which I will need if I'm not going to sleep when I'm supposed to be moving. Filler up in 15 and get going. Been following you guys for a long time. Great job Hats off to you all. Best to you all moving forward.
45:16 I LOVE how that Graph tops out at 140 Km/hr. Loving that the Edison mindset shows even here, haha!
the axels can go 140 km/h even in reverse, so now we know the, drawn power at 140 in reverse with 65000 kg of weight :P
Even UP, BNSF, and Canadian Pacific have demonstrated that a hybrid locomotive consist (3 diesel electrics + 1 battery electric) saves fuel (three 7,000 gallon tanks)! 😁
Northfork Southern also done this.
Locomotives use diesel electric because it’s cheaper and much easier than making a gearbox/driveline which can handle the torque required for modern loads. Not because it saves fuel.
@@PinkFZeppelin I'm talking about the experimental demo battery electric locomotive being tested. Railroads are reporting a 15% fuel savings, that's 3,000+ gallons.
Edison is on the right track for mountain terrain. Growing up on the prairies for 40 years on a farm and now living in the Rockies it is completely clear that electric motors for drive uphill and the regeneration braking downhill is ideal. I completely agree with Edisons vision.
First thing I noticed when driving in the mountains was the demand on the transmission and engine. High rpms, lots of breaking, poor shift points, etc. this is all in a passenger vehicle not towing a heavy load. I can only imagine how smooth Edisons truck would drive. Constant rpm, instant torque, Regen breaking. All wins in my books.
It comes down to buy the right machine for the conditions your working in, it's not a one or the other, it's choose what's best for your operation.
I think the most important thing to remember always is that not all technologies fit all roles. Too often does a new thing come along and everybody starts brainstorming about how to put it into everything.
Keeping a focused target is a great way to prove a company. Only then focus on branching out, you can't do everything at once! Trees grow up, then out, but I know Edison Motors has a great application for these trucks that'll get proven over time as long as they make sure to focus on a targeted, high quality and reliable product.
A very good conversation. A point to be made, you never have to plug this hybrid in. Never. A second point, you will never see this truck puking smoke, i.e. “rolling coal”.
You get better efficiency if you do plug it in for the night. Just like for plug-in hybrid passenger cars.
I've been seeing sellers tout the "don't need to plug in" aspect of hybrid, and I'm like "you're missing most of the savings!"
EDIT: Efficiency as in money per distance
You don't have to plug in any hybrid currently on the market - but you won't get the full benefits if you don't.
You'll also never see any modern diesel truck rolling coal unless
1) It's got an issue/fault.
2) Someone's played with the factory tune.
3) Someone's removed the exhaust after treatment/emissions equipment.
I'm listening to this while driving OTR down here in the states. Great stuff!
This dude is as straight up as I've ever seen someone be. I hope his endeavors prove successful.
This is a brilliant conversation. Honest, informative and doen't mind ending with more questions to ask. My problem when I have these conversations is that most people are willing for have an opinion based on a Tik tok video. This stuff is hard and it take 2 hours to discuss things realistically. but do this again every year and you will see answers, and also more questions but that's ok. I'll never be a customer but I'm a fan.
At least you guys are getting people talking about your Company. Hope things work out and we get to see your trucks out there working.
Great response to a video. This is why I love Edison motors and I have all the best hopes for their success. It’s not for every application but I think it will do great at what it’s built for. And I need to reserve my kit 😂
I like this response a lot! I think if people listen to your response, it's very helpful.
Edison is on the right track for heavy haul. There's a reason trains and open pit mine haul trucks use diesel engine electric motor hybrid systems.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the smarter Caterpillar guys talk to Edison Motors...at least to swap ideas. I know Cat has repeatedly tried some experimental stuff based on the old Porsche/WW2 stuff, but it's high time to make it public, and chat it out, because some random high school kid will walk thru, see these videos, and throw out an idea that bumps everyone up.
No, it's more because when you get into multi-thousand horsepower engines an electrical transmission (generator & motor) is far more practical in terms of design/packaging.
Huge mechanical transmissions don't scale up very well and tend to be high maintenance but are generally more efficient overall.
Three channels I watch and respect!! Keep it up guys!!!!
This was pretty amazing. The world gets smaller, but the abilities and opportunities just get bigger. There is so much knowledge out there, and it feels like these guys are just scratching the surface to how to tap into that. So many smart people have looked at a problem and put brain power into it. Then to be able to reach out and have a thorough conversation about the points being made, and realizing, we're not fighting for the biggest piece of the pie, we are making the pie bigger! Who doesn't benefit when a problem becomes easier and more efficient to solve? It's funny that the UA-cam algorithm had already pegged me as an @EdisonMotors fan because I was watching Wes' content, but I don't think they understand why there is that connection. Watch out, things are already interesting, and it feels like they are just going to get better.
Enjoy watching people from different points of view both present different cases in a kind, transparent, and respectful manner. Such a rare thing these days (especially in US).
I am aligned with Wes’s critique and point of view on lack of feasibility, low ROI, and monumental challenges on common universal pickup truck kits - but I live in an area/climate and use case that is similar to him.
I wish Wes hadn’t taken his vid down as we need critical thought when it comes to change.
I do see tremendous value in Edison team’s approach to vocational semi trucks and excited to see the future.
Kudos to both sides. Keep innovating, critical thinking, and learning. That is how progress is made!
I was so conflicted when I watched Wes do his video. I absolutely love both of your content and at the end of the day I love what both of you are doing. In a crazy world like this it’s nice to see genuine people actually being civil and having discussions. Edison motors and watch Wes works needs to get together and do a video asap
I REEEEAAALLY hope Wes is on board with this project. The man's knowledge is something I appreciate and try to learn from as much as possible. I thoroughly enjoy his content and I look forward to every single video he posts. So along with Deboss Garage who I look up to also in very similar ways, this is a fire team!
Rich is a vast resource of know how. Glad he and Edison are putting their heads together to get stuff done.
man i cant wait to see this truck when im riding the backroads with my buddies on our dirtbikes!
I can’t even believe what I’m seeing! Watch Wes Work, Deboss and Edison motors, 3 channels I love to watch and support. This is absolutely fantastic! Only good things can come from challenging one another, it will sharpen up each other. Would love to see Wes driving Topsy and perhaps adding to the project from his extensive repair background. Plus, let’s be honest, between the three channels, he has the best hand drawn reference materials 😂
Yessir.
This is the conversation I wanted to see. And I stayed for the WHOLE 2 plus HOURS of it…
I think Wes needs a Starlink and this video is just what new tec needs and that’s collaboration, communication and a shared interest in getting things to work as best they can.
I was not keen at all about how Wes had to take down the video he had made and it took longer for this video with its conversation and discussion to be made than I would have liked… but better now than never.
We are all better for it and I’m glad Edison responded and did so in a congenial, Canadian manner….
Excellent!
@@EdisonMotors
The internet is full of stuff that does not work out to be like a normal conversation.
I want everyone who sees this to understand that I wish Edison and WWW a continued conversation as I learned from both parties. I wish you well with your trucks and conversions and time will tell if they are money makers, fuel savers, a break even deal, or just something you do for entertainment. Motorcycles make zero sense financially…. But it doesn’t mean I don’t own several….
Honesty is the best policy concerning Edison. You’re doing ok with that goal it seems. I appreciate you ……(and your guy would be a much, much, much better PM than Trudeau.) ( and… my President and his doggone circus here, is way worse than Trudeau ). 🤷🏻♂️
No matter how weird this deal has been with EDISON and WWW, it’s been informative.
@@williamhague2768 As if anyone cares what a Trumptard has to say.
Adding a pickup kit to the market adds to the abilities of the home gamer and retrofitter for full size steel cars. None of the EV retrofit companies that I've looked at use a generator. I can grab gas, diesel, or propane at almost every fuel station on the continent. 5-10 minutes from empty tank and full bladder to leaving the parking lot. Time is money. I don't want to sit at an outlet for 30-45 minutes while I wait for the grid to charge my rig. I want to keep the convenience of the current fuel station setup. Gimme a generator big enough to idle at the speed limit on a flat road, and a battery big enough to help that generator up the steepest/longest pass across the Rockies. I might only save a tiny amount for long haul road trips, but I don't need the generator at all to grab groceries. The same trips take the same amount of time, and I'm always going to be saving fuel.
Excellent video showing you the real world problems , complications and solutions of a EV conversion. Showing you the negative and positives of this type of vehicle. For me I'm still onboard with the design, there are far more positives to the whole idea and you can power your house! In the end like Chase and theboss said it comes down to total out of pocket money. fuel, maintenance and other possible uses factor in, if you already have the truck it makes sense to me. City stop and go traffic would be a huge money saver and how many people want to plan a long highway trip with mandatory stops just to charge the vehicle for an hour or more?
I still have questions though. 1) how long will the battery's last with constant charging cycles?
2) How about vehicle security, can someone drive it away like the hellcats are being stolen. Or someone with the same edison laptop program ?
3) And how durable are the axles and are they limited slip diff?
Also, love the what I see as a very "Canadian" response to the earlier part of the video. Rather than getting defensive, or argumentative, you just explained your logic, your plan, and explain how this is such a VERY good idea!
Best of luck!! I will share this video everywhere I can!! I will also tell people to watch until the end.
I appreciate how you guys politely addressed his concerns. You guys definitely sold me on a conversion for the 3/4 ton build I want to do. Looking forward to seeing you guys succeed!
This is an AWESOME reaction video!!
Glad these two guys are communicating though this social media method.
Wes’s illustrations and explanations and Chace’s explanations of each point are right on.
I'm hoping they get together and feed off each others ideals, can only be beneficial for the electric vehicle market.
AWESOME GUYS!❤
I've been waiting for this video!! Watching now!!
What i got from the video Wes put out was mostly questioning the widespread viability of your project. And to your own admissions he wasnt far off. It will be very interesting to see how it all works in the real world testing and where it could work out economically for certain uses.
The ability to use regen is key, grid power is still power and most of it still requires a fuel to make it. I think people underestimate how much power/ fuel it takes to run a generator the size needed to power a vehicle. BMW did make a small ev with a small gas generator range extender. It allowed you to run a bit longer, but not enough to power the car indefinitely. The Ram Ramcharger is interesting but it strikes me odd that it needs the same engine you can get in the truck now to power it.
Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing how it all goes.
The spreadsheet model shows that the truck drains the battery to 20% and then charges to 100%. I see a variable for Minimum State of Charge but not Maximum as I'm guessing it's hard coded. I've heard mentioned that the trucks charges from 20-80%. How is the truck intended to work and how would this affect the model outputs?
I have a pickup kit reserved and am excited to see how it turns out.
Would be cool to see this model released open source as mentioned in the video to play with--preferably in python or just about anything other than Excel (or a spreadsheet). Heck, set it up and you could have a web page for for folks to choose options and start end locations on a map.
Once it enters the cycling part, the actual range for start and end of charge will only affect efficiency as far as the diesel generator stopping and starting more often (4 times instead of the 3 shown, if you reduce the battery cycle from 80% ot total to 60% of total).
Also, excel is great for non-programmers, it makes sense for them. Hell, sometimes I prefer it to python, when I am just exploring some data, and don't yet know how it's best to process it. Of course, as soon as I have to do conditionals, I immediately remember why it sometimes ducks.
I absolutely loved watching this. I like all 3 of your channels (Wes, Edison & Deboss) and everything was covered so well, and responded to respectfully. I’d love to see some more collaborative content :)
This was a great video!
Very well done interplay with the critique and response with a lot of good data and systems breakdown and analysis. It went much further on a lot of the questions mulling about in my mind. Thanks!
As I said in an earlier comment, my initial hybrid idea was a 1948, M48 Willys Jeep.
My bigger wish is to put a low cab forward cab on a 2000s-era, 3500 Dodge 4x4 chassis and have a multi roll on swapable long flatbed setup.
The follow up I’ve been desperate for! Thanks for joining up Wes!
Just found you because of "Moose on the loose" and the way the NDP gov is treating you, that said, what you are doing is Fantastic, your morals are even more impressive and so needed in this country.
I went to your website and put my email for your newsletter, so I can follow with the intentions of investing the little money I have left.
I will wait and see where this all leads, my guess is that you will be successful. Stay private and go like hell Edison Motors!
EDISON MOTORS ROCKS!
1:04:37 how people drive makes a big difference.
1:33:06 as a welder nothing was more satisfying than hearing that welding machine shut down after a 10 hr day. It’s that operator’s fatigue If you can eliminate the noise , it takes a load off. If you could rig up the batteries and have the engine come on only when needed it would be another market niche!
If I understand correctly, that is what they are doing! He said there are three buttons on the dash. An off button to keep the engine completely off. A button to turn the engine on no matter what state of charge the batteries are. And an auto button, turning the engine on when the batteries get below a certain point.
@@karlhering1298
Yes for the drive train. I guess that wasn’t very clear..👌🙄.. lol
To weld off of just the dc batteries would take a whole different level of engineering. Straight DC generator welding is really hard to beat. What most welders prefer. I know it’s my weapon of choice.
Inverter ac 3phase comes close. Which is essentially what the kit is and would be my second choice as a welding machine. And yes that just plugging it in .
But never comparable to a Lincoln 350 diesel. Per say.
@@henrinaths1 I'm pretty sure that the generator is DC because it's charging the batteries.
Either way, the welder COULD potentially be powered directly from the batteries. Don't hold me to that, it's just a theory.
The best thing is, if you regularly do mobile welding, you can do so without the engine running, unless you needed the power
@@karlhering1298 if he’s copying Topsy It’s likely going to be a Danfoss 3phase EM-pM1375 high frequency motor generator. Inverted to dc to charge batteries.
True I’ve seen some rigged up for welding off batteries but nothing commercial.
@@henrinaths1 Can You explain how it would be different trying to weld off the batteries from a DC generator?
To me, All you need are two things. A) Me set of batteries capable of handling the demand that you will be putting on it. 2) Possibly, a DC to DC inverter to get the voltage that a welder would want. It doesn't sound that complicated to me.
Since the CyberTruck can handle up to 40A, 240v, I'm guessing you can plug a welder into that and do portable welding! The question becomes: How much welding can you do before you need to charge? In the case of Topsy, you no longer have that limitation because of the generator that can feed the batteries.
At 19:08 of man! It's so nice that this guy is willing to risk his reputation here. We REALLY need people willing to humiliate themselves to keep this conversation going.
“According to my math” 🤓
*math shows it beat its max torque*
???
Dude hasn’t seen the videos of topsy pulling away.
@@Ligby yes, and he really didn't think about all those losses going thru the gears.
this is a classic theory vs. real live. in theory that is the torque but in practice you dont have that.
Wes didn’t even know that Topsy has hub planetary gears like all good logging trucks.
The huge thing that Edison has is the ability to provide all of this technology to companies and people that have need for specific use cases. Like he brought up with the concrete truck company that needed to be able to run concrete in a residential past work time hours. The modularity they will be able to have is going to be key to their success.
Pro tip, watch this video at 1.5x
Better yet 2x...
@@keithmalmberg8395 2x for wes's parts 1.5 for Chase's parts. 1.75x to spit the difference
Great economic work truck battle, I came up thru a heavy on off road truck back ground, I live in an area with mountains and wet conditions. Through the years I worked on a garbage truck fleet, tanker fleet, dump truck fleet and logging trucks, I spent 20 years in a drive train rebuilding facility. The savings in rear ends, transmissions , clutches, drivelines and brakes are another added savings from wear and tear and breakage that goes hand and hand with heavy vehicles. Fun to see the thought process , a lot of variables between application and people operating the equipment.
I have a 2014 Gen-1 Chevy Volt and it will go 80 MPH up freeway hills with the AC on max, purely on battery. Long a long highway trip where most of the trip energy is the gasoline, I get around 45 MPG. The biggest fuel saving is that all of my around-town miles are on battery from an overnight charge. Outside of road-trip fuel, I buy about one gallon a year.
I've watched most of Chases videos. Most of what he says seems logical although he does speculate a lot and omit/forget some things that might hurt his numbers. This can/will cause confusion and trick people without the experience and knowledge to recognize this. Wess seems to make a lot of good points (many that I have said myself) but a lot of his arguments are not even against claims that Edison has made. He's taken specs out of context to make his claims. I do appreciate that it has made Chase clear up some things for the people that don't have real world experience/knowledge to see through the hype.
Seems to me Wes thinks that when you are driving your foot is matted continuously. While I've met people that drive that way, that's just nuts!
Wes also seems to be COMPLETELY ignoring the reality of going down hill loaded and up hill empty. Clearly that's not the only application but IS a target for Topsy.
And on those work trucks, how much fuel (and engine wear) is saved by the ability to run cranes, compressors, pumps, saws etc from battery rather than a truck engine idling or fast idling for hours to drive PTO powered accessories!
At least the original We video obviously didn't miss this fact.
@@rkan2 Oh the original video. Which original video?
@ The one which Wes deleted and which this was edited in to and released here.
@@rkan2 Why did he delete it?
I think Wes did an excellent job motivating Edison to sit down and prepare and publish much better information in this long video, I watched the original Wes video and he was struggling with the lack of information. Another benefit that it is clear that Edison concept is good only for vocational truck. So respect to Wes putting well prepared video and respect to Edison to respond in a civilian way. I am sure Edison would not have their excel sheet if Wes did not his video.
do you have a link to Wess video, I can't find it
@@SimonToivoTelhaug he removed the video after couple of days of posting it. I wish he kept it, I did not see anything wrong with it. In matter of fact, I think Edison benefited from it.
@@Anonymous-hy8oz Wes’ spreadsheet was wrong. For example, he calculated that the Edison Truck cost half price off a new OTR truck but had a payback of 19 years. Wes uses addition/substraction and multiplying/dividing in his spreadsheet. The Edison model was in development for years with help from smart people at Universities. They use Calculus and Geo-maps. It is laughable to think Wes influenced them in anyway. The Canadians were too kind to Wes and didn’t crap on his wrong spreadsheet. They just said, “Take a look at our spreadsheet “.
@nopenonein it is laughable not to think so, if Wes did not do that video, we would not be here. Anyway, I am happy that everybody acted like adults instead of beating on each other.
@@Anonymous-hy8oz You are sadly mistaken as Edison has published all their findings in previous videos, if you would be so kind to search for them.
50 minutes in and the Edison team makes this seem like it was a Scripted Call-out video. Great work on using this as a valuable Q&A. I started watching Wes after the KT3406E channel gave him a shoutout. He is obviously a switched-on guy, and so far, he seems to be focused on nitpicking to the point that it seems Edison paid him for material to answer some really well-thought-out questions. As a retail/ hobby investor (Nikola is freshly in mind), I do see his point in being pessimistic with all this Zero to Hero crap - That said - Are Edison and the guy talking (Sorry, can't recall your name.) the best geniuses I've ever seen? No, but as a Tech myself, these are the guys that generally make the wheels turn on large projects, especially that Technologist with the broken arm you had in the videos; that's the type of guy that people on Mining and other sites trust with very expensive equipment. Now I'm just rambling. In Summary - The call-out video turned into a great Infomercial.
Nobody but Wes wants to proclaim that he is an Engineer and then can’t write an Excel spreadsheet.
Chace, I’m glad you made the case about jurisdictions mandating electric vehicles in the future! British Columbia also has a date of when new ICE will no longer be allowed to be sold. So, there is a market for this type of retrofit.
I have a RAM 3500 dually with the Cummins 6.7 and pull a 40ft Montana 5th Wheel RV that weighs approximately 17000 pounds. Other than Atlis Motor (NXU) I am not aware of any electric one ton pick up trucks that are coming onto the market in the near future that are capable of pulling a trailer of this weight. Again, the Edison diesel electric retrofit for One Tons would be a great option in the future.
Just when I was thinking that it would be beneficial if you were to do a conference call with Wes and hash out some of these issues, there comes the ENTIRE OTHER HALF OF THE VIDEO!
Good stuff!
one of the other markets I have not heard you talk about is motor homes, one a diesel pusher they already have large batteries and generators, with your set up you could have a smaller motor, you can have a your batiers work while off the grid, or use the generator and you would have the power of the hybrid drive.
i am not sure if they dont fall to much into the "long haul" part
I think Wes summed it up best in comparing gas vs diesel in a HD pickup class, a diesel does not make financial sense unless you are a hotshot towing long distance all the time with it, but it has a performance gain that is about the difference between a standard Raptor and Raptor R. And if you are still using 5% less fuel with that performance gain, that's impressive. Plus all the other benefits.
Highway fuel efficiency between a conventional diesel truck and a series hybrid alternative is not a wash. Take a look at the following estimates that are realistic in my experience.
Conventional Truck: Manual transmission (95%) x differential (96%) = 91% total
Series Hybrid Truck: Generator peak (95%) x eMotor/Inverter (92%) x Drivetrain: 96% = 84%, not to mention the 92% or so efficiency for any of the surplus energy that goes into the pack.
Anecdotally, we see this. The series hybrid BMW i3 REx only gets approx. 35mpg on the highway, whereas the Prius, a series-parallel hybrid, with a similar mass and CdA gets in the 50s. A conventional powertrain in the same platform could get in the 40s on the highway.
With all of that said, a significant fuel savings is possible in the right use case, just not for long haul trucks. There you are likely better off sticking with a conventional diesel with current technology.
The Prius is a parallel hybrid. The engine and the electric system can work together to move the vehicle. (The engine cannot move the vehicle without the electric, but the electric can move the vehicle without the engine)
Can you provide a link to the "Watch Wes Work' video? I can't seem to find it.
Any chance we can get your Excel workbook? I'm wondering if I can plug that into ArcGIS Pro to more accurately estimate fuel consumption and range over terrain.
You might want to add elevation data to your model.
Race on Sunday sell on Monday, is a term I'm used to hearing from back in the day. It's great to see Edison Motors allowing this to come back with their conversion kits and support for the right to repair. I can't wait to get my hands on a kit to customize and hot rod some other types of vehicles. I'm curious if any of the big vehicle manufacturers are taking notes on what the people actually want.
I used to be a OTR driver with a Freightliner Cascadia that was power limited and speed limited to 65mph. I averaged under 8mpg per month. A big problem that can be solved by the Diesel Electric is the truck starting up at night or going up hills. I normally ran at or just below 80000 and any hill just destroys any momentum I had built up. I still think its very viable for OTR in this regards. If I had money to throw around I would drive an Edison Truck just because I could.
I like the idea of the pickup conversion. But I have one problem with it. I had a 2001 F350 that had an ABS controller go bad. They don't make the controller anymore. My mechanic only found 3 in the USA that had them we could buy. By the hair on the back of our neck we were able to repair this old truck without having to scrap it because one part that was not part of the drive train needed to be replaced.
So if you convert your old pickup, and then have a minor part that causes your truck to become useless because the part is no loner available, you just spent a lot of money for nothing.
As you have said, investors want you to make the trucks and parts on them only found through you and not aftermarket or in a junk yard or local electronic store. They want you to have the right $1,000 headlights and a $10,000 dashboard only made and sold by you and installed by your dealership. They don't want you to allow the owner to fix it themselves.
So many variables to usage on all trucks. Heavy duty semis or personal pickups. No perfect solution to every environment.
As far as locomotives and why they use what they do is because they need a simple way to remove so many moving parts that take energy out of horsepower just to move the parts. And they could never start a 4 mile long loaded train with a clutch system and drive lines to the axles.
All in all, I believe in what your are trying to do and many of the people that don''t think it will work will just have to wait for real world results on heavy truck hauling. We need more young people like you with dreams that may make the world a better place. Dream on.
Love your work ❤ FYI remember to calculate in DEF usage with diesel usage, DEF is not cheap and, you use alot under load 👍
Over the road class 8 trucks with swappable battery packs makes a whole lot of sense. Yes you need to build the infrastructure with the trucks but it is a doable solution for large companies with known routes. Batteries not on the trucks can be used for grid services. Electric grid tied school busses are really interesting.
This series hybrid is the same for heavy haul applications. The reliability alone with redundancy in modules is a game-changer even if they don’t save any fuel.
Lets see how the RamCharger works out, its an elegant solution. Ford could drop a genny in their lightning pro, that would be interesting especially if they do it modularly. Hook up your trailer and drop in the range extender when you need it.
Lets see what shakes out. This Edison crew is onto something. No more gutless diesels.
There are a lot of reasons I like the way you're going. Right to repair and accessibility is a turn away from the way so many industries have gone as of late. That alone is an important plus. Not only that, but you're entering into a new market that has many ways to improve over time. I wish you much success. It's also important to have these real life test beds to gain insight into how to proceed better. Thank you.
I think this is GENIUS because by both making this video it shows 100% transparency....
Just my opinion and I may be wrong since I'm often reminded that I'm wrong 98% of the time
One application yall really should look into is front discharge mix trucks. Would get the COG much lower and no complicated hydraulics needed that make heat and friction losses
I’ve been a huge fan of Wes for years he’s a talented man , I’m very proud of the Edison crew , keep talking men .
it is nice that basically he stated that WES was correct in his video.
Have you thought about an ORC waste heat recovery system on your generator? It could turn your 350kW generator into a 450kW generator. This 30% increase in power generation would compensate for most of the losses from electricity conversion. It would make the Edison truck better in all scenarios and even getting close to on par with a standard diesel on the highway.
Shoulda titled this "Wes was right but..."
Props to addressing it but I still don't think he chose to take down his video without some pressure from probably a lawyer
he is right in his math but kind of misses the point of the truck, most of his calcultion is distance based and Edsison is not in the "dictance buisness", they are in the "mountain,start-stop, high torque-low speed or high idle time buisness"
Chace lives in his parent’s basement and made 30k last year. As if we have money for lawyers to get people to take down videos that we somewhat agree with.
Americans and their lawyers are ridiculous.
Wes’s video isn’t even grounds for a lawsuit.
Give your head a shake.
-Theron
Right at 2:02:00 you nailed it for pickups. A range extended EV. Drive all day in the city on electric to get groceries or take the kid to school and get your butt to work fine. But when you hit the highway or want to tow your camper/boat/bobcat whatever you have all of the range of conventional diesel
I love the debate and everyone trying to work together and understand the full picture
Though Wes wasn't 100% correct about everything, he's a pretty smart and humble guy.
If I were you, I'd hire him as an advisor or something.
Exactly this.. Yes, yes and yes.
Watch Wes do Maths 😂
Yah I think I would avoid that considering most of his questions were already answered In previous edison videos and he didn't take the time to watch them
I thought Wes made some extremely good points. The most damming being the ones about the trucks being financially viable. Scale only reduces price so much. Even major automakers are charging insane prices for electric vehicles. As someone myself who personally works in the industry with both traditional Diesel and electric semi trucks.. I just dont see this ever working UNLESS battery costs come down significantly. I work every day with major manufacturers of electric semi trucks (i cant say their names but I am sure you can guess since there are very limited companies making them right now)
Right now everyone buying electric trucks is really just doing it to claim they are green. They are not financially viable even for short local truck drivers.
@@CL-yp1bs Yeah, that's why a diesel-electric makes so much sense these days.
I'm looking forward to when electric swap parts for classic cars become somewhat affordable. The edison kit isn't the type I'm looking for though, since I'd want to keep the transmission and driveline intact.
Though putting an electric motor in front of a manual transmission isn't very efficient, I don't care (I love standard transmissions).
you NEED Wes, he seems like the right guy to bounce ideas off...we all need someone to snap us back to reality
Nah.
So lucky to have this critic help you as far as Thomas Edison attempting to debunk Nicola Tesla back in the day. I did very much enjoy watching you handle it with a grain of salt and a calm, well composed Demeter.
26:39 well Wes didn't look hard enough. There's the maz 7907, while only a soviet prototype, it used a turbine generator to power the motors in every wheel hubs. And the reason the soviets chose this layout is because it was a 24 wheel articulated behemoth.
Can someone share the link to the video by Watch Wes Work? I can’t seem to find it. Thank you!
Wes pulled the day it went up.
I'm astounded by what a good communicator you are!
You're obviously very well informed and considered in your approach to this endeavor as well :)
My friend had the same issues he did understand the vocational uses. A lot of people just think hwy over the Road semi's
Great video guys. The most intelligence I've seen gathered in one place on utu be in quite some time. I do follow Rich and Wes regularly and admire their intell and skills. I'll be following this channel moving forward. Thanks for the transparency.
Fyi. I'm in eastern Canada and have worked as a mechanic and class one truck driver.
I've got another specific examples that would justify the conversion. Basically you could be getting a huge stand by generator " for free" I've have a 1984 tandem grain truck with less than 50k km but an engine and trany that are in pretty ruff shape I regularly need a 40kw genset. As the grain truck is very short haul with lots of waiting time I may be able get away with a smaller generator that will meet my truck range/ recharge requirements Potential allow me to have a 2000 gal water truck that also provides power for 2 or 3 Agra T 40 spray drones that need 10-12kw each. The added benefit/value of having a significant back up generator is not zero. Brother spent $10k installing a whole house propane generator in his yard. An Edison pick-up conversion would be able to provide similar redundancy at no extra cost.
For my pickup, I am on dirt roads and stop and go, but I do freeways, but rush hour can be equal in time for freeways to city roads. Sometimes less time is used using city roads.
For the Edison hybrid model, do you factor in the cost of the electricity for the overnight charging?
I work on school buses. This application would be amazing. The stop and go would work great for the regenerative braking. I would love to see this technology in a bus.
I watch all these guys.All good channels.I don't think Edison ever tried to deceive anyone.I applaud Wes for having his opinion and speaking up,and Edison for responding.Nothing here changes my mindset.Wes would be a hell of an Ally.
How can you support Wes. He doesn’t have an opinion, he has a lot of assumptions and misinformation. Plus his Engineer’s spreadsheet was totally wrong. Can you spot the fault?
Would it make sense when running with a trailer to put regen brakes on the trailer to help in charging?
I think Edison has mentioned this concept before in the past. The regenerative breaking actually comes from the motor itself, so to have them on a trailer then you would need an additional motor on the trailer. Totally feasible! Definitely an expensive trailer haha, and I'm not sure what the legal landscape is in regards to having a trailer with it's own drive wheels...
Conceptually, i think it would be very cool to have trailers with e-axles.
@@idabble5880 I am not that in the know but isn't there generators that are just generators and not motor as well? This would make it more simple to hook up.
@@bentleybloodworth4282 good question, generators and motors actually the same thing, it just depends where the power is coming from or going to. Applying electricity will turn the motor, conversely turning the motor will generate electricity.
So, I get what you're asking about creating a purpose built generator attached to the trailer, but the implication of that is that you'd have to install an e-Axle. So I guess as long as you never actually apply power to it then it would be just for Regen.... But it feels like such a lost opportunity to not take full advantage of that trailered e-axle, so the return on investment feels lower... I guess that was just a long winded way of saying yes haha