Count me skeptical. Out of everything my body leaks, everything that gets on my fingers, everything in the air, the only things accumulating on my keyboard are three plasticisers?
That's because everything else is constantly being removed. Its like how an asphalt road can have all sorts of junk get stuck to it but all of it washes away except the tar and, if its an older better road, asbestos(video on it on YT about how asbestos allowed asphalt mixes to have a higher binder-to-agregate ratio making roads last longer).
While I'm sure your isopropanol definitely dissolved plasticizers out of the key caps, I don't think thats the answer to the gunk. Considering that anything humans touch on a regular basis gets that same gunk (door handles, around light switches etc), I think we can be confident that comes from hands (oils, dead skin, dirt, etc). This would make me think that there were some peaks we didn't inspect enough or that some part of your extraction process went wrong. This was a super cool idea though!
@@MassSpecEverything IMO the plasticizers were frome your gloves, not the keyboard! There are videos where gloves (esp vinyl) are used as source of phtalates extracted with isopropanol. Like literally put gloves in soxhlet and run the thing. Edit, eh forgot, that you had control lol. But perhaps you did not control for time of contact with gloves, so I still may have a point.
A repeat of the protocol, on the clean keyboard would work out if the peaks being seen are related to the gunk or the keyboard plasticisers dissolving in IPA. (unless the protocol extracted all the plasticisers from the surface layer)
@@MassSpecEverythinglots of variables, it’s more likely to be finger oils/sweat mixing with dust to form a paste that hardens as it dries, which is why hypothesis is an important step in science. As others have said, the plasticizers probably come from interaction between IPA or even the gunk itself and the plastic of the keys.
You failed to run the control cloth on a clean keyboard, suggesting the possibility that the plasticizers are from the actual keycaps/legends themselves.
@MassSpecEverything check out IEC 62321 part 8 if you can. Standard for solvent extraction of phthalates. One of them anyways that can give you an idea of solvents used. There are several ways to dive deeper like doing a human contact analysis to see if that plays a role in chemical migration. If you need info on standard methods etc I have 4 years polymer testing experience by GCMS and LCMS standards. Just have to find a way to communicate further. Nice instrumentation and hygienic lab (except the keyboard 😂).
Makes sense that you'd get a residue coming off the keycaps. There's a similar but much more extreme goop that build up on old rubberized items like mouse buttons and grip pads.
Very interesting result! It would also be interesting if you could try to measure other gunk that accumulates on various plastics. Especially things used in the kitchen
This is awesome! Great to see someone doing scientific analysis for an everyday question. I'm subscribing for a follow-up, as others have said, the real gunk is probably some kind of skin fats, dead cells, microscopic dust combination. Would be really cool to get some data on the gunk itself, if you have a way to do this? It will likely be more difficult to identify. Interesting finding about the leaking of phtalates, though. A test in treating a clean keyboard would also be of value, although I think the results are obvious.
What's the chance the solvent is extracting the plasticizer out of the keyboard? Can you rerun a blank on the cleaned keyboard? What's the chance to test any gunk from a custom keyboard with aluminum key caps?
your control sample was not a control sample, it was an entirely different sample that's not even related to the experiment. a good control would've been to wipe down a brand new/clean keyboard. the likelihood of that gunk that accumulates on my tech stuff, *_mostly and especially when I sweat_* being a bunch of plasticizers is extremely low and the chances these results came from the keyboard itself are much much higher considering it's literally made of plastic. also, why would you ignore the biomarkers or whatever when you're specifically checking for stuff that accumulates from humans using things?
nope. I always wash my hands clean before touching my keyboard after I touched anything dusty, oily, foods, whatever, and it NEVER accumulates this gunk. The gunk is oils from dirty fingers, combined with dust. You (everyone) can have gunk-free keyboards too. Just wash your hands. You don't have to live like that :)
I am quite surprised by this finding. I mean yes dialkyl phthalates are everywhere, but my guess would have been oxidized/polymerized fats, as a major constituent. If something really heavy and greasy was in the sample (say 800-2000 AMU, triglycerides and triglyceride dimers) would that show up well on this protocol?
@@MassSpecEverythingoh boy you're going to see a lot of disgusting fatty oily stuff. It's basically the same as greasy fingerprints on your phone or a computer monitor. :)
ive held the curiosity of its composition at the back of my mind, i highly appreciate this video. if you, with the means to analyze, didnt answer it would never have been answered (i think)
Since phalates are in everything including us, could it be depositing on the keys from out of our sweat/oil pores and acumulating on the keys over time or do you think its not from within us more from exterior soruces?
I don't want to know the answer...but I have to watch this. Edit: I was right....I didn't want to know. I get similar buildup on my guitar fretboard. I always assumed it was dirt sweating out of my skin and maybe some wood particulate buildup......but it's much worse than that.
Very curious what my various keyboards have on them. 4 in very different environments at home, office, garage, and with my telescope gear. And Adrian's keyboard at the back of the office. He has a very rich browser history that he thinks IT can't see and a very dirty iMac screen. I refuse to do any direct work on his system, remote in from 10 ft away.
Nothing is better than determining their origin to be plasticizes, while you express their presence in all forms of food contact and daily use items, coupled next to my reading of the wiki page on screen "cause reproductive toxicity" Life man lol
Does it? Why? Can you examine for a minute why you think that? Remember it's the dose that makes the poison and these machines can detect verrrryyy small amounts of things
@@theodorekorehonen I'm talking the chemicals from *all* plastics we, or our food come in contact with, or that offgases where we spend our time. There have been studies that show that the many PAFS types of chemicals disrupt hormones, and that it takes very little to do that.
Count me skeptical. Out of everything my body leaks, everything that gets on my fingers, everything in the air, the only things accumulating on my keyboard are three plasticisers?
It's human cells. He spun at 15k so didn't sample it. Maybe if extracted into DMF would be possible to actually sample.
That's because everything else is constantly being removed. Its like how an asphalt road can have all sorts of junk get stuck to it but all of it washes away except the tar and, if its an older better road, asbestos(video on it on YT about how asbestos allowed asphalt mixes to have a higher binder-to-agregate ratio making roads last longer).
While I'm sure your isopropanol definitely dissolved plasticizers out of the key caps, I don't think thats the answer to the gunk. Considering that anything humans touch on a regular basis gets that same gunk (door handles, around light switches etc), I think we can be confident that comes from hands (oils, dead skin, dirt, etc).
This would make me think that there were some peaks we didn't inspect enough or that some part of your extraction process went wrong.
This was a super cool idea though!
Yeah I worry these plasticizers could be accumulating on our fingers from everywhere. That's a scarier answer tbh
@@MassSpecEverything IMO the plasticizers were frome your gloves, not the keyboard!
There are videos where gloves (esp vinyl) are used as source of phtalates extracted with isopropanol. Like literally put gloves in soxhlet and run the thing.
Edit, eh forgot, that you had control lol. But perhaps you did not control for time of contact with gloves, so I still may have a point.
A repeat of the protocol, on the clean keyboard would work out if the peaks being seen are related to the gunk or the keyboard plasticisers dissolving in IPA. (unless the protocol extracted all the plasticisers from the surface layer)
Yeah I was thinking about a good follow up post. I may remove a key and let it sit in IPA to see if it leaches out
@@MassSpecEverything Could the gloves also contribute?
@@MassSpecEverythinglots of variables, it’s more likely to be finger oils/sweat mixing with dust to form a paste that hardens as it dries, which is why hypothesis is an important step in science. As others have said, the plasticizers probably come from interaction between IPA or even the gunk itself and the plastic of the keys.
@@ohokcool I'm more likely to think that the body oils are playing a role in the break down of the plastic.
You failed to run the control cloth on a clean keyboard, suggesting the possibility that the plasticizers are from the actual keycaps/legends themselves.
This is the number one suggestion so far. I'm thinking clean keys soaked in IPA for part 2 see if it's leaching out over time
@MassSpecEverything check out IEC 62321 part 8 if you can. Standard for solvent extraction of phthalates. One of them anyways that can give you an idea of solvents used. There are several ways to dive deeper like doing a human contact analysis to see if that plays a role in chemical migration. If you need info on standard methods etc I have 4 years polymer testing experience by GCMS and LCMS standards. Just have to find a way to communicate further. Nice instrumentation and hygienic lab (except the keyboard 😂).
Can you do a quick episode where you explain your equipment and what it does in layman's terms?
Yeah good idea
Makes sense that you'd get a residue coming off the keycaps. There's a similar but much more extreme goop that build up on old rubberized items like mouse buttons and grip pads.
Exactly I bet mouse same stuff but I should clean my mouse next
This deserves a follow up.
Awesome 👌 👏.
Thank you.
I miss my lab!!!! 😢 darn 2008!!!!
Crazy I lost my first lab job too in that collapse took years to get back
Very interesting result! It would also be interesting if you could try to measure other gunk that accumulates on various plastics. Especially things used in the kitchen
The centrifuge lid has such a satisfying klunkyness.
Wow...!
Very interesting video, man.
Cool.
Scary.
Thanks.
This is awesome! Great to see someone doing scientific analysis for an everyday question.
I'm subscribing for a follow-up, as others have said, the real gunk is probably some kind of skin fats, dead cells, microscopic dust combination.
Would be really cool to get some data on the gunk itself, if you have a way to do this? It will likely be more difficult to identify.
Interesting finding about the leaking of phtalates, though. A test in treating a clean keyboard would also be of value, although I think the results are obvious.
Non woven wipes are made with electrostatic spinning to be random also they can make filters this way.
Boldly exploring the edge of the unknown and reporting what you find. You are doing good in the world. Thank you.
Thanks!!
What's the chance the solvent is extracting the plasticizer out of the keyboard?
Can you rerun a blank on the cleaned keyboard?
What's the chance to test any gunk from a custom keyboard with aluminum key caps?
Thinking the same way. Or wooden keys. Part 2
Wow. The gunk is somehow nastier than I thought lol
your control sample was not a control sample, it was an entirely different sample that's not even related to the experiment.
a good control would've been to wipe down a brand new/clean keyboard.
the likelihood of that gunk that accumulates on my tech stuff, *_mostly and especially when I sweat_* being a bunch of plasticizers is extremely low and the chances these results came from the keyboard itself are much much higher considering it's literally made of plastic.
also, why would you ignore the biomarkers or whatever when you're specifically checking for stuff that accumulates from humans using things?
nope. I always wash my hands clean before touching my keyboard after I touched anything dusty, oily, foods, whatever, and it NEVER accumulates this gunk. The gunk is oils from dirty fingers, combined with dust.
You (everyone) can have gunk-free keyboards too. Just wash your hands. You don't have to live like that :)
I am quite surprised by this finding. I mean yes dialkyl phthalates are everywhere, but my guess would have been oxidized/polymerized fats, as a major constituent. If something really heavy and greasy was in the sample (say 800-2000 AMU, triglycerides and triglyceride dimers) would that show up well on this protocol?
Yeah the QTOF is great at big stuff. But I can do a part two focused on big grease and proteins
@@MassSpecEverythingoh boy you're going to see a lot of disgusting fatty oily stuff. It's basically the same as greasy fingerprints on your phone or a computer monitor. :)
I bet the schmoo that builds up around the knobs of kitchen cupboards that get frequent use is the same stuff.
I have that on my cabinets too. I guess I could check
Wow did not expect that at all
ive held the curiosity of its composition at the back of my mind, i highly appreciate this video. if you, with the means to analyze, didnt answer it would never have been answered (i think)
Yeah usually I'm just curious about something and can't find the answer anywhere
Love your curiosity. This is how my brain works too!
Since phalates are in everything including us, could it be depositing on the keys from out of our sweat/oil pores and acumulating on the keys over time or do you think its not from within us more from exterior soruces?
Or extracted out of the plastic with our finger oil but it's hard to know for sure
Golfing lots? I used to have that callus.
i spotted taht too, so i went to see if he has a dedlift everything chanel
Lifting lots!
I just had two cheese burgers with American cheese, and they were delicious, but it got me thinking what would that cheese look like in mass spec?
I haven't figured out a good cheese method yet but I'll think about it more
I don't want to know the answer...but I have to watch this. Edit: I was right....I didn't want to know. I get similar buildup on my guitar fretboard. I always assumed it was dirt sweating out of my skin and maybe some wood particulate buildup......but it's much worse than that.
Very curious what my various keyboards have on them. 4 in very different environments at home, office, garage, and with my telescope gear. And Adrian's keyboard at the back of the office. He has a very rich browser history that he thinks IT can't see and a very dirty iMac screen. I refuse to do any direct work on his system, remote in from 10 ft away.
Nothing is better than determining their origin to be plasticizes, while you express their presence in all forms of food contact and daily use items, coupled next to my reading of the wiki page on screen "cause reproductive toxicity"
Life man lol
The answer did surprise me.
Nice. What are the spots on CDs?
Hum
If its just plastic, then I'll feel better eating stuff that falls on my keyboard. Thanks.
Well wait a second, what's stovetop splatter grease then? That's what I was guessing this would be, food oils.
Me too. It's probably mixed in there too but it's mainly from plasticizers
Holy shit! Really?
That stuff from plastic has to be effecting our health and hormones.
Does it? Why? Can you examine for a minute why you think that?
Remember it's the dose that makes the poison and these machines can detect verrrryyy small amounts of things
@@theodorekorehonen I'm talking the chemicals from *all* plastics we, or our food come in contact with, or that offgases where we spend our time. There have been studies that show that the many PAFS types of chemicals disrupt hormones, and that it takes very little to do that.
Do the same thing with you dirty shoes 😂
😱