32:02 By the way, for those who may not be aware, it's possible to add a custom class on the parent level and use it to target child elements. For instance, in an image box element, you can add a custom class in the advanced settings, which will be applied to the parent level. This is not an issue in my opinion since Breakdance already assigns default classes to each element, and you can safely target them by prefixing with the custom class assigned. This allows me to control all the same cards from 3-4 different pages, making it easier to manage. I hope this tip is helpful. Thanks for the live show!
@@Gearyco idunno bru 😅like you mention, maybe it's not a class first workflow. I'm an avid fan of oxygen builder but switched because I'm really not missing a lot from my previous workflow. I use single class approach, mostly cards or repeating elements in general, and then I can enjoy advanced features of breakdance.
@@wpinoy You're 100% free to make whatever choices you want. I've always maintained this position. I teach best practices and give my open and honest thoughts without a bunch of sugar coating, handwringing, and "let's all get along" fluff, but ultimately it's just information, and people need to make their own decisions.
I watched that Louis Interview, and it was so refreshingly honest from a business perspective. Louis told things the way they are. What surprises me is that the oxygen community and the so-called "Professionals" are making the same error with Bricks LTD. If the Bricks Developers don't have confidence in their products that they can sell a subscription, neither should the customers, else the story of Oxygen will repeat itself. Any page builder that doesn't have a sustainable SAAS-based business model is a red flag and a no-go zone.
Thomas said multiple time that he will switch to subscribtion model in the future. But keeping it at Ltd model at the moment for good reasons. So you're totally good to go the bricks route...
@@Gearyco Louis’s candid talk and attitude was the same that agency owners and freelancers have for clients who choose not to buy a maintenance and care package I.e. thanks for paying the fee for building your website, but unless you take the care and maintenance package, we don’t care about what you think anymore, and there would be no tweaks or added features on the website without an additional fee for the additional time and resource commitment. There is nothing wrong with this attitude, as otherwise it is not sustainable business wise, for both agency owners building websites or Developers building Page builders. Anyhow, I understand that reality can be salty, and straight talk often gets negative press, as was the case with that interview.
@@John.Rearden I 100% disagree and would never treat my LTD holders like that. I'm the one who offered them an LTD (just like Louis offered the LTD and even backed up his decision multiple times), so this isn't in any way comparable to a client who chooses not to invest in a maintenance plan. This is just a founder being an asshole. And this isn't the only thing Louis has said. He's also insulted people who use Oxygen. He's insulted Oxygen content creators. But, by all means, you can love Louis all you want. If that's who you want to follow, you ultimately get what you deserve and that has nothing to do with me.
@@Gearyco I don't give two fucks about Louis, Oxygen, Bricks, Elementor or the like. I use many different software, and these are just a few of them. I made a casual observation about the SAAS business model and the duplicitous nature of LTD. LTDs create unrealistic expectations from end users, which often result in the kind of drama Oxygen had, and so did ACF in some measure. I have burned my fingers from LTDs, and now I stay away from LTD, and it has worked well for me. G'Day
Although in regards of the icon box element, you could build it out even more in the element design studio to create the exact version you need to suit your needs.
I can sense the righteous anger in Kevin's speech about the lack of essential features in various website builders. I feel the same way about certain equipment in my own line of work. The passion shows me his words are authentic and he really understands his subject.
On those cards you could have assigned it a class id then clicked on it and brings up whole styles panel on right that gives access to everything. I understand that the preferred “class first” but achieves same result.
@@Gearyco Wow, that is shocking and says a lot about the admins, community. I've found loads of value in your work. I enjoyed your lives, this one and the one with Jonathan. Keep up the good work.
You make the analogy of the duct tape for an oil change and we know it isn’t the right thing to do… but as far as websites WHY isn’t it the right thing to do for what you’re saying? Does it make the website slower or something? I’m new to web design and Wordpress but just getting into it now during all this drama so trying to catch up, there’s 50 million page builders now and I’m trying to wrap my head around all this. where as before it was simpler, just buying themes on theme forest.
I can't be more agree with you about Elementor and Divi. I'm starting to work with Bricks, but I really hope that Oxygen could live forever, cause for me is the best. Furthermore, I wonder what are your thoughts about Zion? I think is another great builder too, but most of the people are ignoring it
28:00 You say that Breakdance doesn't compete with Bricks because its a different kind of builder one is class based etc, but earlier you said that Breakdance cannibalizes Oxygen and competes with it by taking its features etc. Those are very contradictory statements. Breakdance either competes both with Oxygen and Bricks or it competes with neither. Cant be both.
Not a contradiction at all. 6 months ago when this was recorded, Breakdance was a different builder. They were initially saying, "It'll never have X, Y, or Z features" (which Oxygen had at the time). Fast forward 6 months and Breakdance now has all those features. The cannibalization is a process. And it's more clear now than ever that Breakdance is getting all the love and they're not going to hold back to protect Oxygen. Where's the contradiction?
Fair enough. I went back and watched the live stream you mentioned btw, and I can understand now, the anger and frustration that you and others had. It was very clear that Louis didn't want a solution to fix oxygen, he shot down every suggestion straight away. It was very frustrating. I thought it was pretty disrespectful that he didn't acknowledge the people promoting his product too, for zero financial benefit to themselves.
Newbie question here from a person with no skills in design having a main focus on SEO. I've never used a page builder before but I am tempted to join this trend to build sites myself. It is Schema Markup a thing handled by a page builder or it is needed a third party SEO plugin for that?
Kevin, I've got to admit, this episode was a bit painful for me. It took me 3 days to watch the entire video from start to finish. I'm a Bricks user and also an O2 license owner. It is nice to know that my increasing comfort with Bricks and ACSS could be easily applied to O2. The Breakdance limitations that you mentioned are not things I'm prepared to endure when I have 2 separate professional page builders that work much better. Great first look video!
Kevin, I'm sad that I didn't meet you sooner. I want to ask a question about Inner Circle. I can't speak English, but I can understand your content because of UA-cam's automatic subtitles. Can I also translate Inner Circle content?
@@euandrefrancisco Kevin includes a text document transcript with most of the Inner Circle video content I've seen, so you can put that into a translation tool (and it may translate directly inside your browser?)
This reaffirms my commitment to Bricks, as while I do prefer certain things in the UI for Breakdance (quickly see all modified properties, css classes organizer, etc), I absolutely despise the presets methodology they use instead of a class-first approach. Much prefer Bricks and I’m sure Bricks will improve to incorporate some of the missing items which can improve the QOL for us. :-)
All Bricks features are half cooked. No ajax popup, no mega menu, form has some basic features missing, lots of custom features are missing in woocommerce.
@@cookie9250 Thank god. I'd love them to only have the very few basic elements, and then you do everything by yourself, knowing all the ins and outs how your site is built. This comes down to what one expects from a page builder.
The LTD for Frames isn't essentially an LTD considering it's 100% useless without ACSS, which needs to be purchased separately and doesn't offer an LTD.
It’s still very much an LTD. Once that LTD is gone and the subscription is only option available, you’ll see that it was in fact an actual LTD. Frames requires an insane amount of ongoing work. The fact that there’s still an LTD for it should be celebrated, not criticized. Once it’s gone, it’s gone for good. ACSS also requires an insane amount of ongoing work and money. And the cost is hardly anything relative to the value. This is the most I can talk about this. If you don’t understand, then don’t buy it.
Why I can't enable Caption for your videos? If you can enable then do it. It will be easy for us to watch and understand. Becuase English is not our first language. Thanks.
I always enjoy these first look videos since I haven’t taken the time to test out these builders. I’m not looking forward to switching page builders (currently using Bricks and living it) but I do like using the best professional tool available. Thanks for another entertaining video!
The problem is that web design isn’t really beginner friendly. It’s a very complex and rapidly moving industry. We should just accept that and teach accordingly.
shoving 80 grand into a domain for a new builder is proof enough that Oxygen has no future. I am one of those who watched the live show at Jonathan's channel at the time.
Fantastic work as always. Big fan here! However, I'm only watching this out of curiosity. I will never use this product, simply because I don't trust the developer anymore. What he has done to the Oxygen community (including me) will not get my support. Long live Bricks!
Huge fan of Kevin's work and content. I have to admit though I was a little off put by the stream. I understand it was a first impression and not a review, but I was a little surprised to hear that this was the first impression. It seems like I've seen and participated in posts here and/or the Oxygen group where Kevin has discussed specifics of Breakdance. This could be from observation and not first-hand experience, so the benefit of the doubt is given. That said, I can't help but feel like his opinion of Breakdance is somehow "weighted." I understand where there may be some valid shortcomings, some of which were certainly mentioned in the stream. As he said, all builders have their pros and cons. One example. A common criticism seems to be that there are too many clicks involved in certain things, both from him and others. I understand because I didn't realize there was an easier way at first. Using the setting gear (cog) on the bottom left and simply beginning to type a property solves this problem almost 100% of the time. For example, with the heading element example in the stream. It would have been simple enough to click the element, click the cog and type "Background" and I'll bet by the time you hit "Bac" you would have seen what you were looking for at the top, and changed the setting. Problem solved. I don't see this as being any less convenient than simply typing a class name, or perhaps adding css. There's no need to click 10 times, is the point. Could it be quicker? Yes, it could be right there, front and center. So could a hundred other things, I guess they felt it wasn't something that needed to be most of the time. Again, if it was truly a blind first impression, that is understandable. Maybe one suggestion to the BD team is to make some of these functions more obvious. There seems to be a lot packed into BD that isn't obvious to everyone. Other than that I can't help but feel like it's a little unfair to continue to insinuate that basically anyone using this is making Fischer-price sites, or whatever. I think though many many hours of use, Breakdance can work fine for large scale sites. We'll probably never change each others minds on this, but perhaps find some middle ground. I think Kevin tends to speak in absolutes a lot. I can be guilty of this with things I know a lot about, too. That's a backhanded complement, of sorts :)
@@Gearyco Every setting name seems like a stretch my friend lol. There could certainly be a conversation to be had about which elements need which settings to be more upfront. But also...it's less typing than CSS :)...maybe more clicking...
@@tognabologna7078 I've said in other first impression looks that I don't judge UX too much because you can't get a real feel for the UX until you've spent a good amount of time with it. There were a few settings that I was surprised to see were so buried, but ultimately across 3 hours I talked about that very little, relatively speaking.
@@Gearyco Fair enough, overall I think I just felt like with more time someone can understand how BD can be pretty scalable, at least in my opinion. Maybe not perfectly, but like I said that's the problem with absolutes sometimes, perhaps I am an outlier, perhaps my own ego or bias is getting in my way. Not sure, I just don't see eye to eye with you in general on Breakdance at the moment. I think it can be pretty well tamed without the use of many classes at all, scalable, and work for a majority of cases with WordPress builds. I think it goes right up there with other page builders in terms of tools I'd pick to build a simple or complex WordPress site. I think a project that doesn't work well for Breakdance, probably should just be built with another platform or hardcoded then with a more modern framework. I could be a lunatic...but I think there's probably a lot of ground between "Breakdance is for baby's first website" and "Breakdance is the tool for all professional builds"
Even React and all these new frontend frameworks are now using component-based styling more than class-based and reusable components like the global blocks here. If you don't like the philosophy then I think you wont like vue and react
32:02 By the way, for those who may not be aware, it's possible to add a custom class on the parent level and use it to target child elements. For instance, in an image box element, you can add a custom class in the advanced settings, which will be applied to the parent level. This is not an issue in my opinion since Breakdance already assigns default classes to each element, and you can safely target them by prefixing with the custom class assigned. This allows me to control all the same cards from 3-4 different pages, making it easier to manage. I hope this tip is helpful.
Thanks for the live show!
Why are they hiding the classes workflow?
@@Gearyco idunno bru 😅like you mention, maybe it's not a class first workflow.
I'm an avid fan of oxygen builder but switched because I'm really not missing a lot from my previous workflow. I use single class approach, mostly cards or repeating elements in general, and then I can enjoy advanced features of breakdance.
@@wpinoy You're 100% free to make whatever choices you want. I've always maintained this position. I teach best practices and give my open and honest thoughts without a bunch of sugar coating, handwringing, and "let's all get along" fluff, but ultimately it's just information, and people need to make their own decisions.
@@Gearyco cool
Try Zion builder also once. It is also a class first workflow and very fast builder.
Thank you
Zion is great!
Oh really? Zion is a full website builder?
I watched that Louis Interview, and it was so refreshingly honest from a business perspective. Louis told things the way they are.
What surprises me is that the oxygen community and the so-called "Professionals" are making the same error with Bricks LTD.
If the Bricks Developers don't have confidence in their products that they can sell a subscription, neither should the customers, else the story of Oxygen will repeat itself.
Any page builder that doesn't have a sustainable SAAS-based business model is a red flag and a no-go zone.
Thomas said multiple time that he will switch to subscribtion model in the future. But keeping it at Ltd model at the moment for good reasons. So you're totally good to go the bricks route...
“I don’t care what oxygen users think because I already have their money.”
That was honest when he said it. I wouldn’t call it “refreshing” though.
@@Gearyco Louis’s candid talk and attitude was the same that agency owners and freelancers have for clients who choose not to buy a maintenance and care package I.e. thanks for paying the fee for building your website, but unless you take the care and maintenance package, we don’t care about what you think anymore, and there would be no tweaks or added features on the website without an additional fee for the additional time and resource commitment.
There is nothing wrong with this attitude, as otherwise it is not sustainable business wise, for both agency owners building websites or Developers building Page builders.
Anyhow, I understand that reality can be salty, and straight talk often gets negative press, as was the case with that interview.
@@John.Rearden I 100% disagree and would never treat my LTD holders like that. I'm the one who offered them an LTD (just like Louis offered the LTD and even backed up his decision multiple times), so this isn't in any way comparable to a client who chooses not to invest in a maintenance plan. This is just a founder being an asshole. And this isn't the only thing Louis has said. He's also insulted people who use Oxygen. He's insulted Oxygen content creators. But, by all means, you can love Louis all you want. If that's who you want to follow, you ultimately get what you deserve and that has nothing to do with me.
@@Gearyco I don't give two fucks about Louis, Oxygen, Bricks, Elementor or the like. I use many different software, and these are just a few of them. I made a casual observation about the SAAS business model and the duplicitous nature of LTD. LTDs create unrealistic expectations from end users, which often result in the kind of drama Oxygen had, and so did ACF in some measure. I have burned my fingers from LTDs, and now I stay away from LTD, and it has worked well for me. G'Day
@KevinGeary You got the best mindset for this job. Keep enlightening us!
Your amazing! Just amazing…man, thanks for all the help your doing, love your 101 course keep it coming.
Thanks Kevin, this type of training is first class and I'm getting to enjoy drinking from the fire hose!
Although in regards of the icon box element, you could build it out even more in the element design studio to create the exact version you need to suit your needs.
Shouldn’t have to!
thanks for sharing, Kevin!
I can sense the righteous anger in Kevin's speech about the lack of essential features in various website builders. I feel the same way about certain equipment in my own line of work. The passion shows me his words are authentic and he really understands his subject.
On those cards you could have assigned it a class id then clicked on it and brings up whole styles panel on right that gives access to everything. I understand that the preferred “class first” but achieves same result.
I know breakdance has classes but they hide them away
@@Gearyco there’s been discussion on bringing class styles up front. Hopefully that will be brought to life.
First time watching a live stream... I've been missing out!
Ooo, for sure! We have a lot of fun here.
This is great. Good that I watched it.
someone posted your video in the BD group, did it get removed? I would like to have seen some real feedback, never mind hey.
Yes they removed it
@@Gearyco Wow, that is shocking and says a lot about the admins, community. I've found loads of value in your work.
I enjoyed your lives, this one and the one with Jonathan. Keep up the good work.
looking forward to seeing greenshift.
Really enjoyed this one!
Thanks man!
You make the analogy of the duct tape for an oil change and we know it isn’t the right thing to do… but as far as websites WHY isn’t it the right thing to do for what you’re saying? Does it make the website slower or something? I’m new to web design and Wordpress but just getting into it now during all this drama so trying to catch up, there’s 50 million page builders now and I’m trying to wrap my head around all this. where as before it was simpler, just buying themes on theme forest.
It makes websites harder to scale, iterate, and maintain.
I can't be more agree with you about Elementor and Divi. I'm starting to work with Bricks, but I really hope that Oxygen could live forever, cause for me is the best. Furthermore, I wonder what are your thoughts about Zion? I think is another great builder too, but most of the people are ignoring it
I will do a first impressions soon
Any thoughts on greenshift?, please
Coming soon.
thanks looking forward to that@@Gearyco
Whats that Tool at the beginning you create the site with?
Local
28:00 You say that Breakdance doesn't compete with Bricks because its a different kind of builder one is class based etc, but earlier you said that Breakdance cannibalizes Oxygen and competes with it by taking its features etc.
Those are very contradictory statements.
Breakdance either competes both with Oxygen and Bricks or it competes with neither.
Cant be both.
Not a contradiction at all. 6 months ago when this was recorded, Breakdance was a different builder. They were initially saying, "It'll never have X, Y, or Z features" (which Oxygen had at the time). Fast forward 6 months and Breakdance now has all those features. The cannibalization is a process. And it's more clear now than ever that Breakdance is getting all the love and they're not going to hold back to protect Oxygen.
Where's the contradiction?
Fair enough.
I went back and watched the live stream you mentioned btw, and I can understand now, the anger and frustration that you and others had.
It was very clear that Louis didn't want a solution to fix oxygen, he shot down every suggestion straight away. It was very frustrating.
I thought it was pretty disrespectful that he didn't acknowledge the people promoting his product too, for zero financial benefit to themselves.
Newbie question here from a person with no skills in design having a main focus on SEO. I've never used a page builder before but I am tempted to join this trend to build sites myself. It is Schema Markup a thing handled by a page builder or it is needed a third party SEO plugin for that?
Third-party plug-in or hand coding.
Kevin, I've got to admit, this episode was a bit painful for me. It took me 3 days to watch the entire video from start to finish. I'm a Bricks user and also an O2 license owner. It is nice to know that my increasing comfort with Bricks and ACSS could be easily applied to O2. The Breakdance limitations that you mentioned are not things I'm prepared to endure when I have 2 separate professional page builders that work much better. Great first look video!
Kevin, I'm sad that I didn't meet you sooner.
I want to ask a question about Inner Circle.
I can't speak English, but I can understand your content because of UA-cam's automatic subtitles.
Can I also translate Inner Circle content?
It’s hosted on Vimeo which doesn’t auto translate, but we have transcripts you can translate.
@@Gearyco How can I translate the Vimeo transcript?
@@euandrefrancisco any translation tool should be able to do it - even chrome browser.
@@Gearyco Thank you, first I will finish the PB101 to have a base
@@euandrefrancisco Kevin includes a text document transcript with most of the Inner Circle video content I've seen, so you can put that into a translation tool (and it may translate directly inside your browser?)
This reaffirms my commitment to Bricks, as while I do prefer certain things in the UI for Breakdance (quickly see all modified properties, css classes organizer, etc), I absolutely despise the presets methodology they use instead of a class-first approach. Much prefer Bricks and I’m sure Bricks will improve to incorporate some of the missing items which can improve the QOL for us. :-)
All Bricks features are half cooked. No ajax popup, no mega menu, form has some basic features missing, lots of custom features are missing in woocommerce.
@@cookie9250 Thank god. I'd love them to only have the very few basic elements, and then you do everything by yourself, knowing all the ins and outs how your site is built. This comes down to what one expects from a page builder.
@@stripedgoat then you are struck to a page builder.? Go for pure coding.. why spend so much for basics?
Bricks is the way 🎉.
The LTD for Frames isn't essentially an LTD considering it's 100% useless without ACSS, which needs to be purchased separately and doesn't offer an LTD.
It’s still very much an LTD. Once that LTD is gone and the subscription is only option available, you’ll see that it was in fact an actual LTD.
Frames requires an insane amount of ongoing work. The fact that there’s still an LTD for it should be celebrated, not criticized. Once it’s gone, it’s gone for good.
ACSS also requires an insane amount of ongoing work and money. And the cost is hardly anything relative to the value.
This is the most I can talk about this. If you don’t understand, then don’t buy it.
Why I can't enable Caption for your videos? If you can enable then do it. It will be easy for us to watch and understand. Becuase English is not our first language. Thanks.
It’s enabled but on a long livestream it takes UA-cam a long time to process them I think.
@@GearycoOh yeah! It makes sense.
I always enjoy these first look videos since I haven’t taken the time to test out these builders.
I’m not looking forward to switching page builders (currently using Bricks and living it) but I do like using the best professional tool available.
Thanks for another entertaining video!
@@AyDeeSandra You're right. I should have said I like using "one of the best professional tools available."
"oh you gotta go to magic area, to create a magic component" 🤣
I think every builder of this kind needs to have PRO mode, to unable css classes and all advanced features, and also be beginer friendly.
The problem is that web design isn’t really beginner friendly. It’s a very complex and rapidly moving industry. We should just accept that and teach accordingly.
Imagine a developer who created a page builder software and refers to those who use classes as crazy.
shoving 80 grand into a domain for a new builder is proof enough that Oxygen has no future. I am one of those who watched the live show at Jonathan's channel at the time.
Just what I needed!
Fantastic work as always. Big fan here! However, I'm only watching this out of curiosity. I will never use this product, simply because I don't trust the developer anymore. What he has done to the Oxygen community (including me) will not get my support. Long live Bricks!
Huge fan of Kevin's work and content. I have to admit though I was a little off put by the stream. I understand it was a first impression and not a review, but I was a little surprised to hear that this was the first impression. It seems like I've seen and participated in posts here and/or the Oxygen group where Kevin has discussed specifics of Breakdance. This could be from observation and not first-hand experience, so the benefit of the doubt is given.
That said, I can't help but feel like his opinion of Breakdance is somehow "weighted." I understand where there may be some valid shortcomings, some of which were certainly mentioned in the stream. As he said, all builders have their pros and cons.
One example. A common criticism seems to be that there are too many clicks involved in certain things, both from him and others. I understand because I didn't realize there was an easier way at first.
Using the setting gear (cog) on the bottom left and simply beginning to type a property solves this problem almost 100% of the time.
For example, with the heading element example in the stream.
It would have been simple enough to click the element, click the cog and type "Background" and I'll bet by the time you hit "Bac" you would have seen what you were looking for at the top, and changed the setting. Problem solved. I don't see this as being any less convenient than simply typing a class name, or perhaps adding css. There's no need to click 10 times, is the point. Could it be quicker? Yes, it could be right there, front and center. So could a hundred other things, I guess they felt it wasn't something that needed to be most of the time.
Again, if it was truly a blind first impression, that is understandable. Maybe one suggestion to the BD team is to make some of these functions more obvious. There seems to be a lot packed into BD that isn't obvious to everyone.
Other than that I can't help but feel like it's a little unfair to continue to insinuate that basically anyone using this is making Fischer-price sites, or whatever. I think though many many hours of use, Breakdance can work fine for large scale sites. We'll probably never change each others minds on this, but perhaps find some middle ground. I think Kevin tends to speak in absolutes a lot. I can be guilty of this with things I know a lot about, too. That's a backhanded complement, of sorts :)
If I have to write every setting name in a search box, why don’t I just write CSS?
@@Gearyco Every setting name seems like a stretch my friend lol. There could certainly be a conversation to be had about which elements need which settings to be more upfront.
But also...it's less typing than CSS :)...maybe more clicking...
@@tognabologna7078 I've said in other first impression looks that I don't judge UX too much because you can't get a real feel for the UX until you've spent a good amount of time with it. There were a few settings that I was surprised to see were so buried, but ultimately across 3 hours I talked about that very little, relatively speaking.
@@Gearyco Fair enough, overall I think I just felt like with more time someone can understand how BD can be pretty scalable, at least in my opinion. Maybe not perfectly, but like I said that's the problem with absolutes sometimes, perhaps I am an outlier, perhaps my own ego or bias is getting in my way. Not sure, I just don't see eye to eye with you in general on Breakdance at the moment.
I think it can be pretty well tamed without the use of many classes at all, scalable, and work for a majority of cases with WordPress builds.
I think it goes right up there with other page builders in terms of tools I'd pick to build a simple or complex WordPress site.
I think a project that doesn't work well for Breakdance, probably should just be built with another platform or hardcoded then with a more modern framework.
I could be a lunatic...but I think there's probably a lot of ground between "Breakdance is for baby's first website" and "Breakdance is the tool for all professional builds"
@@tognabologna7078 what specific features make the sites scalable and maintainable?
Even React and all these new frontend frameworks are now using component-based styling more than class-based and reusable components like the global blocks here. If you don't like the philosophy then I think you wont like vue and react
Classes are still used
Hi
Hi