QCTP Stud Upgrade
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 гру 2017
- Machining a custom quick change tool post stud and nut for my lathe. The stud is made from 1144 Stressproof, and the nut is made from annealed 4140.
Related links & information can be found in the associated blog post here:
www.dans-hobbies.com/2017/12/...
watching this with morning coffee. priceless. learned a LOT. thanks
When you cut metric threads on an English lathe you CAN use the thread dial. Not the same way as with English threads but for me it works better than the "quick draw" method.
Make the initial cut with the thread dial engaged, engage the half nut on any number. When you get to the relief disengage the half nut, then turn the lathe off before the thread dial makes a complete turn. Retract the cutter, then reverse the lathe and engage the half nut when the number comes up again and run the carriage back to the start. Leave the half nut engaged for the next cut and repeat the sequence for each cut. It works great and gives you much more time to stop the lathe and retract the cutter, as long as you don't let the thread dial make a complete revolution.
Thank you Dan! Very nice Craftsmanship and very good explanation! 👍
Nice video. I loved the commentary, and all the diff camera angles. Thumbs up and subscribed!
Thanks Dan for the video. I really appreciate that you called out the material that you are using. I always find myself conflicted on what my best choice would be.
Thanks for sharing! Looks great! Very useful!
Très bon travail !!!!
Un grand bonjour de France !
Very good work !!!!
A big hello from France !
Thank you Georges!
Nicely done. And your video work, and commentary are spot on. Looking forward to more ideas and solutions.
Thank you!
I have a similar top slide, and want to convert it to Aloris quick post, without milling a dove sleeve! So seeing this video gives me a very good direction! Many thanks!
I did a similar mod to my chinese 9x20 and shars qctp. I drilled and tapped the compound for m12 and threaded the shank right into the compound. Great video! Very enjoyable to watch.
Great Job! Really enjoyed the video.
Nicely done Dan. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Fred!
Dan, Great work! Perfect project to share. Your videos keep getting better and better. Thanks for taking the time to share with us. Joel....
Thanks Joel, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Nice machine work!
Fantastic camera work and great content.
I have the same style tool post on my Bolton Tools lathe. My QCTP came with a long M12 stud threaded both ends and nut. I just cut the riser off the compound and tapped the hole for the M12 stud.
Great upgrade and excellent explanatory video! Thanks for sharing.
Nice video! But just a tip for you, when milling your work in a collet block, you should clamp on the flat sides of the block. The reason is if it works loose it will twist straight out of your vice. If its holding on the flats, then there is much more clamping force and no spare space for it to twist out. Another way is to hold it in a sideways V-Block. Keep on making great video's mate!
i dont know wtf he was thinking. the rear jaw is the datum not the bottom raw casting of the vice
Nice vid, thanks. I rarely use the compound on my lathe, made a block same height and the toolpost sits on top. Much more rigid setup, and only takes a minute to swap the compound back if I need it. My cross slide has a boss that the toolpost bolts to, M12 thread, so I dint need to modify anything to mount the AXA size toolpost.
I did the same to my lathe and wow what a difference.
Nós dó canal ferreira motos estamos acompanhando tudo. 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷👍👍👍👍👍
Nice work. Great attention to detail.
Thanks Robert!
Hi Dan, When turning the 1.102 diameter at 10:06 in, what was the insert and what material were you turning?
Hi Dave,
The material is hot rolled 4140. It has fairly low machinability, and doesn't always yield the best finish, but it's really tough.
This is the insert I was using. They are excellent for small lathes because they are finishing inserts so they are designed for slow feeds and shallow depths of cut.
www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/products/Pages/productdetails.aspx?c=CCMT%2006%2002%2004-PF%20%20%20%201515
I was impressed by the finish is why I asked. I have no idea where I bought it from but have an SCLCR06-2J holder that came with an insert. Performance was excitingly average so I shelved it. Research says that insert should fit it. Rather than spending $$ for 10 can I buy one from you? Would be happy to send a check for the part and any shipping costs. Hopefully you know who I am. Dave M. My email address is at the end of every video.
The videos you've seen I'm trying 1144 and not getting a great finish. Just tried 4140 and have a finish like it came off an $80,000 CNC!!! The insert also gives a great finish on aluminum..
Are you turning plain 1144, or 1144 Stressproof? The stress proof variant gives a much better finish because of how its treated.
I ordered these and I swear their the exact same insert www.banggood.com/10pcs-CCMT060204-VP15TF-Carbide-Inserts-for-SCLCR-Turning-Tool-Holder-p-1101201.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=USA
Great improvement to the lathe. Just as info for the imperial threaders out there. This is how we thread metric threads even on metric lathes. None of the lathes I have had at least, has had a threading indicator. I believe there are just too many combinations. I also have to keep the half nut engaged. I have made a tool holder with a retract handle ala Multifix to ease the retract operation. I believe most metric lathes are the same. Luckily, my Leinen lathe stops short, an this helps a lot
Glad to see you shortened up the threads, my scarred knuckles were crying out for you to,do it, LOL. Looks better too. Great job and thanks!
Love the project thanks for sharing
I solved the same problem with my janky undersized stud by getting a real Aloris. I had to go buy a tap drill and tap to deal with 9/16" threads, but I can crank on a 7/8" wrench now, and it never budges. Your fix was waaay cheaper, and i bet you saw a huge improvement.
Nice job Dan! Looks great.
Thanks Bob.
You sound like a younger man but I think you have very good skills. Very good video and you speak very well. First time watching you.
i the future i recommend putting it in a vise and using a standard 2 handed tap wrench. you can break off the tap or cause the hole to be wobbled off center.
Nice sharp tools. Metal cutting is fun.
Nice job!
Steve
Hi Dan
Good conversion. That will be a lot stronger. I bet you could feel it stretching.
You can't understand some designers can you, 8mm thread with a locking nut that size.
Nice and clear video footage.
Yea, sometimes you have to wonder what they are thinking.
You just got a new sub. great work excellent narration!
Thanks Marco!
Nice! That’s going to make a noticeable difference I would think. And nobody will ever breake it, without useing power tools in an attempt to do so. Interesting to watch. Thanks!
Couldn't have asked for a better result. I have an Enco 9x20 with the same exact design 10mm stud with 8mm thread, pinned and would like to find the stud bolt you were using initially for the AXA post just to get me going. My mill is apart for a CNC conversion and required a lathe upgrade(ballscrews/pullies) so I'm beteeen a rock and a hard place on DIY for the moment.
The quickest and cheapest way to do it, is how i did it when I broke the original stud on my lathe and didn't have a spare. Buy a properly size bolt from the hardware store, and then go at it with a bench or angle grinder. It won't be pretty, and it will be a little difficult to tighten the first time, but it will get you through the task or turning a custom stud.
Greetings from the country of origin of your chuck! :)
I did the same thing 2 years ago ,but instead of a roll pin ,i used a set screw on the circumference of the bolt to stop it turning with lock tight. good job though.
Like Your style of working Dan.
Methodical, well planned, confident, neat, precise and accurate. You know how to use all Your Tooling very well. We still trying to get there with ours, even at our age. But worth every bit of the effort in trying.
Also like some of Your Tooling.
BTW, what make of Drill Bits and Centering Bit are U using, and where U get them from ???
Thanks for showing and sharing
ATB
aRM
aR,
I have a mix of drill, but I have slowly been converting over to triumph twist drill "thunder bits". They are 135 degree split point bits.
www.amazon.com/Triumph-Twist-Drill-Co-099856/dp/B001F8PYYS/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1513007646&sr=1-1&keywords=099856
The spotting drills are made by KEO and you can order them from pretty much any of the major tool suppliers, or from amazon.
www.keocutters.com/product-category/spotting-drills/spotting-centering-drills/90-pa/90-right-hand/90-right-hand-hss/
Hi Dan
Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.
Yes, those "Thunder Bits" really cut like lightning !!! Worth the "Investment"
As for the Keo's we know these are very good USA made. Will source some
ATB
aRM
I made an adapter so I could use the original handle from the old tool post.
Nice work! Gotta get a QCTP...I'll add this to the list of projects.
Can I ask why you don't back the tap up (to break the chips)? Seems like asking for trouble!
Habit more than anything else, I've gotten to used to using spiral flute taps where i don't have to do it.
why need locktite? Both sides are always being tightened, unless you reverse the lathe
Excellent, thanks, subbed.
Great video keep up the good work brother, greetings from Co wexford Ireland 👍🏻👏🏻🍀🇮🇪
Thanks Paul!
O widze z uchwyt bison bal polski swietnie sie spisuje?????
Fajny pomysł. A jak się spisuje polski uchwyt na tokarki?
The chuck works really well!
Threading that looks easy compared to the 1 inch 14 tpi I did recently. I chucked that in a big vice and got an upper arm workout for my troubles. :)
I enjoyed your mod and the drawings. I see that your QCTP fits over the boss. Did you machine this or buy it off the shelf ready to fit?
Hi Bernard,
I bought it from the now defunct lathemaster company. it sold the same 8x12/14 that HF does, just with a different branding.
@@Dans-hobbies Sorry Dan my fault I did not ask my question clearly.
What I meant was how did you get round the boss on the top slide. Did you cut it off or counter bore the base of the QCTP to accomidate it?
@@bernardstart3553 sorry, It seems i wasn't overly clear either. The QCTP was designed for my lathe by the manufacture, it has a larger bore so it just slides over the boss on top.
@@Dans-hobbies Thank so much for your reply. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply.
Trouble is I can bore the bottem of the QCTP to accomodate the top slide boss. But now I will have to shorten the spindle that the three start screw rotates on. The spindle will then have no attachment thread left. Providing one takes care when carrying the QCTP to stop it falling apart it should be OK in operation when the M16 stud clamps the whole lot.
What do you think?
@@bernardstart3553 depending on what lathe you have, you might get better results by maching the boss. If you decrease its height and diameter, you might have to bore less material out of the QCTP, thus losing less rigidity.
I think I would have shortened my wrench after breaking the first one:)
Exactly what I was thinking..
I would have just used a torque wrench
Might not have hurt to take a light cut on the dovetails on the slide to even it up a bit. If you didn’t want to take it all, you could have taken half - assuming the vice and parallels are level. Easy for me to say, you were working and filming and I was sitting back and sipping coffee. :)
Great video! What kind of lathe do you have?
Hi Brandon,
I have a 2006ish version of the harbor freight 8x12 (really 8x14)!
www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
Sometimes smaller bolts are used with tool posts so that the bolt will break before the cross slide breaks in the advent of a catch. On a small lathe that I have the tool post mounting bolt is turned down in the middle to a much smaller diameter for just that reason.
Hi, may I ask what size of lathe and QCTP you using ? Thanks for sharing.
Hi Vincent, My lathe is an 8"x14", and i use an AXA sized QCTP.
@@Dans-hobbies What is an 8"x14" lathe? Make and model would be fine.
@@redgum1340 This is my lathe. HF doesn't know how to measure between centers it's really 14 inches not 12.
www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
Firstly thanks for the informative video .... Secondly my topslide has the same set up as yours .... i have a 20mm boss on top protruding 22mm ... Problem is the hole through the tool post is 14mm how did you get to fit your tool post over the boss.
Hi Mikey,
The QCTP i use was custom designed to be used with my lathe. it was sold by the now defunct lathemaster company. it sold the same 8x12/14 that HD does, just with a different branding.
imo, you have a few options.
1) bore out the QCTP to fit over the boss
2) turn down the boss to fit in the QCTP
3) completely remove the boss and make an adapter/sleeve to fin in the QCTP.
I've heard of people doing all 3 depending on what lathe they are working with, and what tools they have available to them.
I had same problem- made a sub plate 6mm thick to change the spigot diameters. Not easy but it works.
nice work
Nicel ... but my question is how did you fit the holder over the sleeve that is
on the top slide .... coz i have the same QCTP but it won't fit over my sleeve
and i really do not want to cut it off for it will really weaken everything.
Thanks for sharing.
Mickey Pee mine came bored out to fit over the sleeve.
Which lathe is that?
www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
Nice upgrade, curious why you wouldn’t make a locking nut on top to include a handle, this way no need to keep using a wrench...
I have enough tool Holders, that I almost never have to adjust the QCTP itself. My lathe is also very small so a handle would get in the way a lot.
I tried to put a handle on mine and was to annoying to have two handled, so I return to the wrench.
While the shaft is indeed misdesigned, the way to increase the stability of the toolpost is to provide an antirotation means, in addition to the friction provided by tightening the tool post using the stud. In other words, provide another means of preventing rotation, rather than just attempting to increase shaft torque and normal force.
Nice job!
nice, but may have it tempered?
My guess is what you made is an M14 1.5 bolt. You could have just purchased one along with a flange nut.
I don't think you need two jaw puller at 27.55 just find something shim on the bolt. I have same problem with that bolt has not enough power to hold the holder. I just counter-bore bottom of QCTP holder and it fixs.
Wondering why the made the stud that way with the counterbore in the slide. Seems that there's enough thickness in the slide to just screw a threaded stud into a full depth hole.
The only thing I could come up with at the time, was that it was a designed point of failure. Breaking the stud is probably easier for most people to deal with, than breaking the top slide.
Prima Arbeit!
Thank you!
Did you think about buying a cheapo 19mm spanner and chopping it down to reduce the leverage?
I actually did that for a while, but it was still pretty easy to stress out the anemic stud.
Roll pins are a pain. Why didn't you just tap it for a set screw?
Just a personal preference, I'd rather do a roll pin.
Strengthening the through bolt....good idea and thought. The M8 stud (threads) was/is a poor design. Yours is much better. Thanks -T
Y Y 4 r
Quick draw
Nice project. Question: Why index the flat of the hex collet block on the bottom of the vise, and clamping on the points instead of clamping on 2 known parallel surfaces?
on cheaper collet blocks such as the one I'm using, the distance across the points isn't always the same, as they aren't considered precision surfaces. I've seen them off as much as much as 0.01"
that's more than enough to make the hex nut a really sloppy fit in a wrench. Thus to ensure consistent tolerances I usually reference off the face of the collet block, as they are precision surface.
On small cuts such as these it's perfectly safe in my opinion, but you definitely don't want to hog material with them clamped like this.
@@Dans-hobbies Thanks! I am just learning, and waiting on my lathe and mill to make it stateside from Taiwan.
question: dont you trust the machines leadscrew for travel? why else reverse the rotation? the thread is always in the same spot on the leadscrew and the leadnut,so disengaging the feed,turning it back and engaging it shoud put it in the exact same spot every time-pherhaps a big backlash or something?
I was cutting a metric thread on a machine with imperial lead screws. Unless you have a very specific set of change gears (I don't), you cannot disengage the half nut, and not get an error.
Technically you can disengage the half nuts if you follow a very specific technique, but it's basically equivalent to not disengaging the half nuts.
Is that vise out of alignment? It's looks like the the vise is not square to the y axis...
It's aligned withing about 3 tenths over the width of the jaws. I can't really get any better than that on this vise, as the jaws have a few tenths of wave in them.
as for the clamping of the pin intoo the vice for the mill : maibe make a set of vice jaws with a small V groove in the middle straight across eachother , my guess is that youre going to need it more than once and it shouldnt hurt the normal clamping force of the vice if you use it normal
nice work, but wasn't it easier to buy the M12 flanged nut?
They aren't available locally in my area, so I'd have to order them online and then wait up to a week for them to arrive. Also making one yourself offers the ability to customize the nut to your liking. For example making the flange thicker or larger in diameter etc.
if you're making the nut and the bolt why not make the threads imperial ? (just make the bolt to a metric number to fit the hole in the block and then turn down the end to the closest imperial size down and thread it)
Just staying consistent with everything else on the lathe.
@@Dans-hobbies ah ok, but I thought I heard u say it was an imperial lead screw lathe is all
@@BillyTpower It is, but every single fastener on the lathe is metric
Maybe you needed to upgrade your stud...but I am at a loss why so many people do an upgrade on this part and keep a hexagon nut here instead of installing a handle, doing away with the wrench entirely.
There is no wrench used to change tool post holders, why use one to adjust the angle of the QCTP when you can have a dedicated handle?
Imo, it all comes down to usability and use cases.
My lathe isn't very big, and I often run into issues where even the qctp handle gets in the way. Add to that, that I don't often need to reposition the tool post, it makes sense for it just to be a nut.
If I had a larger lathe, I would probably have a dedicated handle.
Why not just turn a threaded nut for the base, a shouldered bushing for the top of the qctp and use a normal old 12.9 Allen bolt?
That would definitely work, but you would need to keep an Allen key close by.
That's great that you can make a bolt and nut from scratch, but wouldn't it have just been easier to buy a threaded nut and bolt and turn the bolt hex head round and also face it to the right thickness?
You could, but it would be hard to get things exactly as you want them.
I tried exactly that and unless you went with a much larger diameter bolt (which consequently would have to be turned down and rethread ed), the inside boss of the top cross slide would be incompletely filled and thus less contact. The head on that bolt simply wont have enough material to fill it. The m12 I used ended up only filling /contacting about 70% of the diameter of the boss.
@@waynemackenziesr5005 The fact that the inside boss may be incompletely filled is irrelevant. What really makes the QCTP rock stable is the contact of it's base with the cross slide and the downward force exerted by torquing the bolt. And the lateral movement stability is actually dependent on how close the bolt diameter fits the drilled hole in both the QCTP and the cross slide and not how much space the bolt head fills the cross slide boss.
@@Dans-hobbies Yes, it's obviously a matter of personal preference, but not that one is any more effective than the other. As I explained elsewhere, the size of the head of the bolt in the cross slide boss doesn't matter and no one will ever see it.
@@brucebelvin2058 we can agree to disagree on that
6:14 - cutting/tapping fluid!?
I used Tap Magic, you can see me applying it to the tap around 5:15.
@@Dans-hobbies Oh - OK!
Cast iron is messy!
Would have been a lot less work to just cut the wrench handle shorter, so you couldn't gorilla fist it.
Why do you have to make this in metric? You could even make it in a custom thread if you wanted to. I subscribed. Good content.
All the other fasteners on the lathe are metric, so keeping it metric just minimizes the number of tools I have to keep close. for example the tail stock locking nut is 19mm, so I only need one wrench for the qctp and the tail-stock.
Breaking M8's either you're Heman or those M8's are cheese grade steel.
oh,that tool for cut thread is not ok, make chamfer before making the thread.
yes top
Don't use your delicate finger to clear out or brush aside the chips. Use a blast of air.
Could have shortened the wrench ( only joking)
MADE IN POLAND :))