Slight correction to the warranty info. Only the heat exchanger is warrantied for 15 years, all other parts are 5. The homeowners also need to register the units within 90 days to get the additional 4 years of labor coverage. Rinnai also starts their standard warranty for unregistered units from the date they sell it to the wholesaler, so it's important homeowners register them
One of the best investments I made when I remodeled my house. Only thing I did different was that we installed a full water filtration system with a descaler and a humidity system next to it.
So far I'm 4 years into having a Rinnai outside mount unit. It's worked flawlessly. We had 0°-10° F winter weather and it never missed a beat. No freezing. The built in heater protection has been great. I do have a whole house generator for those emergency assurances if needed. I'm extremely happy and gained so much room by removing the existing tanked heater. It has been one of the best decisions I've made during the remodel.
I have a timer based recirc that I plugged in via a smart outlet that uses IFTTT. I then say " ok google time for a shower" and it kicks on for 2 minutes priming the lines and then shuts off again.
One huge factor that is rarely discussed: gas supply. Living in the city it was required that the gas meter be increased to 2psi, then regulators be placed on all of my appliances in order to insure this unit didn’t starve for fuel during winter if say both of my furnaces were running at the same time as the water tank. Let me tell you - now having one, I’ll never go back to a tank in my life. It’s freaking awesome having hot water at the tap, in any quantity needed.
Unless you need a built in recirculation pump the Rinnai V series is an even better deal. Just installed a V94 192K BTU to replace a 20 yr old direct vent on a rental. I also had to tie in with the hydronic air handler and add a mixing valve so a bit more complex and passed inspection on first attempt. I was able to shorten and reuse the 1/2 gas line because the meter is essentially on the other side of the wall from the heater which satisfies the code and even checked gas pressure at the heater with a manometer.
I recently had to replace my 15 yr old tank type. The tank did not fail but the gas valve solenoid was failing. I could have replaced it but decided to install a new 50 gal, power vent ao smith. I paid like $1700 from Ferguson and installed myself. I decided tank type because it’s simple and easy to work on. All parts are in stock at my wholesale house and I can easily install myself.
I don't know how big your house is, but this on demand type unit may have saved money from the install and then would definitely save money in the long run. I'm still undecided if I want to stick to a 40 gal tank next or go with something like this, when I replace my 15 year old Bradford White water heater.
I bought a Takagi 199k tankless. It’s an absolute beast. Built in pump, non condensing, super quiet unit. Paid around $1,800 for it, added isolation valves and independent filter specifically for tankless units. Our Gas bill has been about $30 a month- of actual gas usage- for our 3 bath, 1,600sqft house with a family of 4
I have two Takagi’s that’s 20 years old now and I’m thinking I should replace the one that’s inside the house due to me worrying it must fail at some point I can’t believe they’ve both lasted 20 years. I don’t want it to leak and ruin my hardwood floors. The other is outside so I’ll run that one until it dies. Definitely gonna stay with Takagi
I hook up the recirculation pump to the light switch so when you turn on the light your pump turns on and turns off when you leave Automatic Take care Ray
I set up my tankless up with a recirculating pump at my old house with a smart outlet on the pump and set up an alexia voice command to start it up. So in the kitchen or any of the bathroom all you had to do is say “alexia hot water” and at 45seconds witch was 10 seconds beyond what I timed hot water to the farthest fixture alexia would say “Hot water ready. The pump ran for 30 minutes and the auto shut off. This gave me a wireless way to call for hot water from every use point.
Condensing tankless water heaters are a total headache. They are more efficient than non-condensing sure, but call any general plumber and chances are they don’t know how to install one much less service one. There’s been so much technology advancements in plumbing that the state plumbing board really needs to update their testing requirements. A homeowner shouldn’t have to scour high and low looking for a competent plumber that is competent with all plumbing connection technologies and tankless water heaters.
Can you please share the specific model when you do these type of posts? I know that the needs of a house will vary, but Rinnai has 8 models alone in the REP Series and their website doesn't do a very good job of helping to narrow down what would be a good choice (for my needs). Their comparison page is not detailed enough...it compares condensing vs non-condensing and RE vs REP, RSC vs RU vs RUCS/RUS and Hybrid, but doesn't drill down further in each series of comparing those models. Even better comparing Rinnai vs another (or 2) leading just as good (or better) brands to consider? I'm going to be doing a reno for the kitchen and other areas of the house and I'm considering switching to tankless. Love your youtube channel...lots of great information that I have saved in my notes to apply towards my reno!
I agree! I'm looking to go tankless and leaning towards Rinnai but trying to make comparisons between their different models is pretty tough. Info like when should I use a non-condensing vs a condensing. Also so much info on youtube about tankless doesn't address different considerations for climate. Wisconsin vs Texas, etc.
Matt, Where do we buy that drain pan? I'm going to have my plumber install a pan and place a (Residio water detector $12) in the pan. The water leak ruined my basement closet laminate flooring that is finished. My Rinnai is 12 yrs old and started having leaks on the back of the copper tubing (they are so hard to get to for the plumber to solder and with the cost of labor, it's cheaper to replace the whole unit.) After alot of research I am going with Rinnai 180IP that doesnt have the recirc because propane is expensive and I don't need their recirc pump to be wasting propane when I can wait 5 minutes for the hot water to reach my farthest sink. Since Im staying with non-condensing then I can reuse my Rinnai vent so my total price for tank, isolation valves and for the plumber will be around $1700 but my last Rinnai model R75 has lasted 12 years AND we don't pay to heat a big tank of water every day or have to drain one every year. Also, I would love for you to compare the heating capability with stainless steel heat exchanger vs the copper one. I don't want to have colder water. Thanks.
Pumicecrete is by far the best building material on the planet Pumicecrete is a mixture of pumice cement and water mixed and poured into a set of reusable forms walls are poured from 12"to 24" thick pumicecrete is fireproof termite proof rust rot and mold proof non toxic and has a high R value and good sound attenuation solid poured walls means no critters can live in your walls Pumicecrete can be built for a fraction of the cost and time and pumice is one of the few building materials that can go directly from the mine to the job site ready to use without any additional possessing and zero waste Take care Ray
I just had the RSC199in (indoor/natural gas) (all same features of this one except it condenses) installed professionally for $5k to put into perspective… just the parts for the job would have easily been 2700-3k had I purchased myself - and they were in my house 2 days for about 13 hours combined. This did include running a recirculating line since my home didn’t have one.
The range of prices for tankless is very broad. I have had quotes from 2,500 -6,000K for the identical unit. It depends on whether you are replacing one or having to retro fit the area for one. My install is a replacement of a rinnai. The RSC condensing 199 is $2200 but this PEP 199 is about $900 less in price. I think you could get this installed for about $500 so this unit does provide state of the art technology at a lower price point. Congrats rinnai.
Do not understand why you would want a noncondensing tankless unit. Condensate pumps are way cheaper than high end vent materials. I know you get paid to push Rinnai but in the last 20 years I have installed over 100 Noritz units with only 1 warranty claim.
What's the water input temp is another variable to be aware of. I have a tankless and can overrun it in the winter time filling my large tub, turning it back a 1/4 turn gives me full hot. In the shower in the winter if I have both the showerhead and the jets running I notice a change in temp too but not as dramatic. Summertime neither of these are an issue and honestly I barely notice it in the Winter either but it's something to be aware of.
Actually, most builders in WA (82 percent) are installing heat pump water heaters that are 3X-4X as efficient as this or any tankless unit. Uniform Energy Factors (UEF) of 3.3-4.1 compared to UEF of 0.89 for the unit Matt just demonstrated. A tankless will NEVER pay for the additional upfront cost, especially not a non-condensing one. They sell on the promise of “endless hot water”. Well size your tank correctly and add thermostatic mixing valve and your storage water heater will do the same.
@@npjutras then when your pos small heat pump fails you are left with an electric water heater again or paying as much as a new one to fix. Unless you are buying a sanco2 etc you're wasting your money not to mention the recovery time sucks on them.
The Navien NPE line is far better than the Rinnai and that’s coming from a plumber that has installed thousands of tankless heaters. Install the product with your own hands before you make videos about it.
We have an outdoor non condensing Rinnai 199,000 BTU's. No recirc pump though. I turn the hot water on and brush my teeth. Before I am done I have hot water. I would have preferred a recirc pump but the builder didn't offer them. Thinking of buying a spare to have on hand. I don't trust the current govt to try and eliminate natural gas products. Also have a 22KW Generac backup gen. on natural gas. I maintain my Rinnai every year. I have the pump and hoses. I have most of the internal spare parts on hand too just like I do with my A/C equipment.
How is the best spec water tankless. This is good for builder not for home ownwer. You want the most effective system that is fast. This thing does not appeal to a smart buyer.
This definitely appeals to a smart buyer. They don't have to run their water for a few minutes to get hot water, its available in seconds which saves time and money in the water bill. The lack of a tank and need for a recirculation pump saves space. You also only need to power the unit when its used as its an on-demand system, rather than consistently run burners through a tank. Many of these can be installed outside...I'm not sure why you think none of that appeals to a home owner...
Never been impressed with these units, if they cost 10k, they have a control board thats going to fail within 10 years and then cost 2/3 the price of a new unit just for that board... maybe this one is different with that 15 yr warranty...
I have one that I installed 15 yrs ago......never had to do anything yet to it, but I'm in a small 1 bath house, with 3 sinks, and softened water. I love my Rinnai.
Shouldn't we be phasing out fossil fuel appliances? At this point there are many other options: Hybrid water heaters, point-of-use electrics , and for new construction even solar water heaters. Just saying....
Why? I pay a lot less to use energy from natural gas than from electric so why would I want to pay more? Electricity is literally 5x - 10x (depending on what the market is doing) what natural gas costs for me so even if my gas is only 80% efficient, I still come out way ahead by having natural gas appliances. Why get rid of that advantage?
100% electric doesn't work everywhere and not every subsection of the grid can handle it leading to the use of natural gas turbine peaker plants. The cost for the last Megawatts also follow supply and demand which wastes the money that could be invested on conversion on more established players that may or may not care about investing in clean energy. Effort does need to be made everywhere but you're better off cleaning up your utility and making reasonable choices as a homeowner. This included. It using gas 24/7 on water that you won't use and having a small battery to run the electronics on a gas unit in a power outage while the grid recovers. If you use this though what prevents you from making a solar tank before topping off this unit and only minimally using gas?
Just remember this, Everyone can't afford the cost of renovating an existing home with fossil fuel appliances too electric appliances cause it's still too dam expensive. Plus we are all hurting for money with a majority of people in more debt that they wouldn't be able too pay back so they can't take out loans or borrow enough money too make upgrades for electric appliances. That's why we aren't even close yet too really start pushing for net zero carbon emissions, fossil fuel will still be around for a while until electric appliances are at a much more affordable price.
Excuse me, did they make an on-demand heat pump water heater? I don’t think so. Tankless is the best option for reliability and never running out of hot water.
Slight correction to the warranty info. Only the heat exchanger is warrantied for 15 years, all other parts are 5. The homeowners also need to register the units within 90 days to get the additional 4 years of labor coverage. Rinnai also starts their standard warranty for unregistered units from the date they sell it to the wholesaler, so it's important homeowners register them
One of the best investments I made when I remodeled my house. Only thing I did different was that we installed a full water filtration system with a descaler and a humidity system next to it.
I love our Navien that we have had for the last 10 years.... No problem's at all and extremally efficient.
So far I'm 4 years into having a
Rinnai outside mount unit. It's worked flawlessly. We had 0°-10° F winter weather and it never missed a beat. No freezing. The built in heater protection has been great. I do have a whole house generator for those emergency assurances if needed. I'm extremely happy and gained so much room by removing the existing tanked heater. It has been one of the best decisions I've made during the remodel.
I have a timer based recirc that I plugged in via a smart outlet that uses IFTTT. I then say " ok google time for a shower" and it kicks on for 2 minutes priming the lines and then shuts off again.
One huge factor that is rarely discussed: gas supply. Living in the city it was required that the gas meter be increased to 2psi, then regulators be placed on all of my appliances in order to insure this unit didn’t starve for fuel during winter if say both of my furnaces were running at the same time as the water tank.
Let me tell you - now having one, I’ll never go back to a tank in my life. It’s freaking awesome having hot water at the tap, in any quantity needed.
I'm intrigued with that 12 car garage!
Unless you need a built in recirculation pump the Rinnai V series is an even better deal. Just installed a V94 192K BTU to replace a 20 yr old direct vent on a rental. I also had to tie in with the hydronic air handler and add a mixing valve so a bit more complex and passed inspection on first attempt. I was able to shorten and reuse the 1/2 gas line because the meter is essentially on the other side of the wall from the heater which satisfies the code and even checked gas pressure at the heater with a manometer.
I recently had to replace my 15 yr old tank type. The tank did not fail but the gas valve solenoid was failing. I could have replaced it but decided to install a new 50 gal, power vent ao smith. I paid like $1700 from Ferguson and installed myself. I decided tank type because it’s simple and easy to work on. All parts are in stock at my wholesale house and I can easily install myself.
I don't know how big your house is, but this on demand type unit may have saved money from the install and then would definitely save money in the long run. I'm still undecided if I want to stick to a 40 gal tank next or go with something like this, when I replace my 15 year old Bradford White water heater.
I bought a Takagi 199k tankless. It’s an absolute beast. Built in pump, non condensing, super quiet unit. Paid around $1,800 for it, added isolation valves and independent filter specifically for tankless units. Our Gas bill has been about $30 a month- of actual gas usage- for our 3 bath, 1,600sqft house with a family of 4
What model number do you have?
I have two Takagi’s that’s 20 years old now and I’m thinking I should replace the one that’s inside the house due to me worrying it must fail at some point I can’t believe they’ve both lasted 20 years. I don’t want it to leak and ruin my hardwood floors. The other is outside so I’ll run that one until it dies. Definitely gonna stay with Takagi
I hook up the recirculation pump to the light switch so when you turn on the light your pump turns on and turns off when you leave
Automatic
Take care Ray
I don't use the light during the day due to a window providing light. Now what?😅
@@mitchdenner9743 I guess your SOL
I set up my tankless up with a recirculating pump at my old house with a smart outlet on the pump and set up an alexia voice command to start it up. So in the kitchen or any of the bathroom all you had to do is say “alexia hot water” and at 45seconds witch was 10 seconds beyond what I timed hot water to the farthest fixture alexia would say “Hot water ready. The pump ran for 30 minutes and the auto shut off. This gave me a wireless way to call for hot water from every use point.
That's awesome!
reckon am i seeing that right that the unit is taking a half inch gas inlet?
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏼👊🏼
Condensing tankless water heaters are a total headache. They are more efficient than non-condensing sure, but call any general plumber and chances are they don’t know how to install one much less service one. There’s been so much technology advancements in plumbing that the state plumbing board really needs to update their testing requirements. A homeowner shouldn’t have to scour high and low looking for a competent plumber that is competent with all plumbing connection technologies and tankless water heaters.
Rinnai is the best ! very popular in israel, we are using it more then 10 years.
Price of unit??
Here in the NEPA I paid $3,812.
Can you please share the specific model when you do these type of posts? I know that the needs of a house will vary, but Rinnai has 8 models alone in the REP Series and their website doesn't do a very good job of helping to narrow down what would be a good choice (for my needs). Their comparison page is not detailed enough...it compares condensing vs non-condensing and RE vs REP, RSC vs RU vs RUCS/RUS and Hybrid, but doesn't drill down further in each series of comparing those models.
Even better comparing Rinnai vs another (or 2) leading just as good (or better) brands to consider? I'm going to be doing a reno for the kitchen and other areas of the house and I'm considering switching to tankless. Love your youtube channel...lots of great information that I have saved in my notes to apply towards my reno!
I agree! I'm looking to go tankless and leaning towards Rinnai but trying to make comparisons between their different models is pretty tough. Info like when should I use a non-condensing vs a condensing. Also so much info on youtube about tankless doesn't address different considerations for climate. Wisconsin vs Texas, etc.
I’d be interested to see a comparison of tankless vs electric heat pump water heaters.
Matt, Where do we buy that drain pan? I'm going to have my plumber install a pan and place a (Residio water detector $12) in the pan. The water leak ruined my basement closet laminate flooring that is finished. My Rinnai is 12 yrs old and started having leaks on the back of the copper tubing (they are so hard to get to for the plumber to solder and with the cost of labor, it's cheaper to replace the whole unit.) After alot of research I am going with Rinnai 180IP that doesnt have the recirc because propane is expensive and I don't need their recirc pump to be wasting propane when I can wait 5 minutes for the hot water to reach my farthest sink. Since Im staying with non-condensing then I can reuse my Rinnai vent so my total price for tank, isolation valves and for the plumber will be around $1700 but my last Rinnai model R75 has lasted 12 years AND we don't pay to heat a big tank of water every day or have to drain one every year. Also, I would love for you to compare the heating capability with stainless steel heat exchanger vs the copper one. I don't want to have colder water. Thanks.
It probably doesn't matter too much but you can shut off the recirc pump entirely (ie don't buy an inferior model just to avoid the recirc pump).
Pumicecrete is by far the best building material on the planet Pumicecrete is a mixture of pumice cement and water mixed and poured into a set of reusable forms walls are poured from 12"to 24" thick pumicecrete is fireproof termite proof rust rot and mold proof non toxic and has a high R value and good sound attenuation solid poured walls means no critters can live in your walls Pumicecrete can be built for a fraction of the cost and time and pumice is one of the few building materials that can go directly from the mine to the job site ready to use without any additional possessing and zero waste
Take care Ray
That is a lot of fittings around that water heater.
Dope
Guess I can't afford this since I have to ask how much $$$
I just had the RSC199in (indoor/natural gas) (all same features of this one except it condenses) installed professionally for $5k to put into perspective… just the parts for the job would have easily been 2700-3k had I purchased myself - and they were in my house 2 days for about 13 hours combined. This did include running a recirculating line since my home didn’t have one.
The range of prices for tankless is very broad. I have had quotes from 2,500 -6,000K for the identical unit. It depends on whether you are replacing one or having to retro fit the area for one. My install is a replacement of a rinnai. The RSC condensing 199 is $2200 but this PEP 199 is about $900 less in price. I think you could get this installed for about $500 so this unit does provide state of the art technology at a lower price point. Congrats rinnai.
Missed the price.
Like $1400 on amazon, depending on the size
So hard to tell that this was by Rinnai....
Do not understand why you would want a noncondensing tankless unit. Condensate pumps are way cheaper than high end vent materials. I know you get paid to push Rinnai but in the last 20 years I have installed over 100 Noritz units with only 1 warranty claim.
How many GPM do they provide? What’s the highest GPM available? I’m looking to fill a soaking tub in less than 20 minutes 😆
What's the water input temp is another variable to be aware of. I have a tankless and can overrun it in the winter time filling my large tub, turning it back a 1/4 turn gives me full hot. In the shower in the winter if I have both the showerhead and the jets running I notice a change in temp too but not as dramatic. Summertime neither of these are an issue and honestly I barely notice it in the Winter either but it's something to be aware of.
Can you share any builders in Washington State that are as progressive as you are? Thank you 😊
Where in Washington are you?
Actually, most builders in WA (82 percent) are installing heat pump water heaters that are 3X-4X as efficient as this or any tankless unit. Uniform Energy Factors (UEF) of 3.3-4.1 compared to UEF of 0.89 for the unit Matt just demonstrated. A tankless will NEVER pay for the additional upfront cost, especially not a non-condensing one. They sell on the promise of “endless hot water”. Well size your tank correctly and add thermostatic mixing valve and your storage water heater will do the same.
@@npjutras then when your pos small heat pump fails you are left with an electric water heater again or paying as much as a new one to fix. Unless you are buying a sanco2 etc you're wasting your money not to mention the recovery time sucks on them.
The Navien NPE line is far better than the Rinnai and that’s coming from a plumber that has installed thousands of tankless heaters. Install the product with your own hands before you make videos about it.
New
We have an outdoor non condensing Rinnai 199,000 BTU's. No recirc pump though. I turn the hot water on and brush my teeth. Before I am done I have hot water. I would have preferred a recirc pump but the builder didn't offer them. Thinking of buying a spare to have on hand. I don't trust the current govt to try and eliminate natural gas products. Also have a 22KW Generac backup gen. on natural gas. I maintain my Rinnai every year. I have the pump and hoses. I have most of the internal spare parts on hand too just like I do with my A/C equipment.
Could the audio be any quieter? Editor, learn how to audio balance, please!
stop saying “we” and “I” install them as your plumbers did this work let them explain it not you guys
How is the best spec water tankless. This is good for builder not for home ownwer. You want the most effective system that is fast. This thing does not appeal to a smart buyer.
This episode was sponsored by: Rinnai.
This definitely appeals to a smart buyer. They don't have to run their water for a few minutes to get hot water, its available in seconds which saves time and money in the water bill. The lack of a tank and need for a recirculation pump saves space. You also only need to power the unit when its used as its an on-demand system, rather than consistently run burners through a tank. Many of these can be installed outside...I'm not sure why you think none of that appeals to a home owner...
Never been impressed with these units, if they cost 10k, they have a control board thats going to fail within 10 years and then cost 2/3 the price of a new unit just for that board... maybe this one is different with that 15 yr warranty...
I have one that I installed 15 yrs ago......never had to do anything yet to it, but I'm in a small 1 bath house, with 3 sinks, and softened water. I love my Rinnai.
Check again. It’s only a five year warranty.
Shouldn't we be phasing out fossil fuel appliances? At this point there are many other options: Hybrid water heaters, point-of-use electrics , and for new construction even solar water heaters. Just saying....
Why? I pay a lot less to use energy from natural gas than from electric so why would I want to pay more? Electricity is literally 5x - 10x (depending on what the market is doing) what natural gas costs for me so even if my gas is only 80% efficient, I still come out way ahead by having natural gas appliances. Why get rid of that advantage?
100% electric doesn't work everywhere and not every subsection of the grid can handle it leading to the use of natural gas turbine peaker plants. The cost for the last Megawatts also follow supply and demand which wastes the money that could be invested on conversion on more established players that may or may not care about investing in clean energy.
Effort does need to be made everywhere but you're better off cleaning up your utility and making reasonable choices as a homeowner. This included. It using gas 24/7 on water that you won't use and having a small battery to run the electronics on a gas unit in a power outage while the grid recovers.
If you use this though what prevents you from making a solar tank before topping off this unit and only minimally using gas?
All water heaters run on fossil fuels.
Just remember this, Everyone can't afford the cost of renovating an existing home with fossil fuel appliances too electric appliances cause it's still too dam expensive. Plus we are all hurting for money with a majority of people in more debt that they wouldn't be able too pay back so they can't take out loans or borrow enough money too make upgrades for electric appliances. That's why we aren't even close yet too really start pushing for net zero carbon emissions, fossil fuel will still be around for a while until electric appliances are at a much more affordable price.
Excuse me, did they make an on-demand heat pump water heater? I don’t think so. Tankless is the best option for reliability and never running out of hot water.