I would add one thing, codex gets better and better with the key lvl. It is insane how much dmg you take on higher keys and when you have no cds, it helps a lot! But yeah there are better options for sure:)
That's true. The problem for Druid specifically is that even when you're not in your big Incarn CD window, you still have lots of shielding coming in from Thrash, and that shielding directly reduces the amount of damage that Codex is capable of reflecting. DH is the only tank that doesn't have an absorb that interferes with the way Codex works (Ursoc's Fury, First Avenger, Ignore Pain, Blood Shield, and Stagger/Celestial Brew). It's also the tank that gets the least amount of defensive value out of primary stat, so they are the one tank that can really make good use of it. For everyone else, it is bait.
@@WoWatNight saying the codex is a bad trinket for bear is just wrong, as a bear main for the last 2 season even on a 15 codex does close to a mil healing and damage. Edit: ah you're a monk main that explains a lot.
@@cimeries3224 It's doing 500k total damage in 22-ish Junkyards, well under 500 DPS. It is nowhere close to the value of First Sigil or Cache in the majority of content. Even in 27 Junkyards, the ideal use case in M+, it's still under 1 million total damage, around 600-700 dps. Again, that pales in comparison to a well-used Cache as an offensive trinket. It is a poorly-designed, over-nerfed trinket that is no longer good for any tanks other than VDH, and the players who think it is are being baited by the way it used to work. Looking at all the log entries of it reflecting literally dozens of damage has been fun, though.
@@WoWatNight Hey! Thx for the answer. I checked raider io and almost every Guardian wears it there... are they all blind or is it at that keyrange the best?
@@thorstenwolk76 It's a bit of both, tbh. It is functionally a minor defensive cooldown at a high key level, which is really good for VDH since it fits into their cooldown-rolling playstyle, and they benefit very poorly from Agility. It saw some use among Blood DK's in the 30+ range because of its value as a rando defensive CD, as well, and that has had the effect of causing all tanks to think it's good for them, too. There are a lot of players who have tricked themselves into using Codex in higher-level keys. I've seen logs of it in +29 Upper Kara where it's doing 500 DPS, for example. That's really bad compared to a trinket like Reactive Defense Matrix, which gives you more shielding and damage overall, and doesn't force you to give up primary stat to get it. It's not like it will ruin your character to equip, but it's weaker than Reactive Defense Matrix, it's weaker than Cache, it's weaker than First Sigil, it's weaker than any of the Agility/Vers trinkets, and while Codex gets stronger at higher levels, it doesn't get better than the alternatives, it just gets closer in value. It's possible some of the players using it have baited themselves because it's good on VDH and BDK. It's possible some of them just don't have the superior alternatives at a competitive item level.
For singletarget dps, do you spam mangle or thresh during incarn? If mangle is the way to go, does thresh become better when playing ursocs fury remembered?
If you aren't wearing Ursoc's Fury Remembered, you use Mangle against 1-3 targets during Incarn once you have 3 stacks of Thrash active. if you are wearing UFR, it's Thrash the whole time, even in ST.
Since i haven't gotten them yet (started playing again in s4 not too long ago), is it possible to just macro all the 3 min stuff together (cache, incarn, RF, weap) or is the gcd interfering in anyway?
Sure, here you go! Weakauras: wago.io/XBH-nA8XH Plater Profile: wago.io/teE_Yavti As for the unitframes and actionbars, they're Shadowed Unit Frames and Dominos Action Bars, and they're both pretty old addons, so they don't have good tools for sharing profiles. Probably going to switch to the revamped default UI in Dragonflight. It looks really good, it's easy to set up across characters, and it's not based on 10+ year-old addons!
I wouldn't say guardian "starts to fall off" at 25. If you check wlogs, 25 is pretty much highest key for druids. Guardian sorely needs some sort of cooldown reduction on incarn. Best beginner tank though
Absolutely. There are a handful of dedicated lunatics pushing +27's on time on Druid, and one of them finished a +30 Streets a few minutes over time. It's definitely possible to push into the upper key levels on a Druid, but ultimately, people who are committed to pushing as high as possible are going to gravitate toward the absolute best class, and Blood DK undeniably has a higher ceiling. In terms of just slamming out some 15's, Druid's great. The ability to mass pull, pop the 3-minute combo and burn the majority of the trash between each boss down in a single pull is something most of the other tanks can't do that well. It's nice. Blizzard should buff Druid's base tankiness, since they struggle without their Incarn combo, and they are in Dragonflight. The future's bright.
Gotta be honest, I have never seen an actually good bear druid. There are only two types the new tank who barely pulls anything in dungeon, takes tons of damage, does some weird obscure route or doesn’t route at all and you end up under % at the end of the dungeon and is usually from emerald dream or Ragnaros… OR the bear tank with no awareness who pulls absolutely huge even though he is the only person in the group who will survive… until his incarn runs out, then he falls over and blames the “bad” dps and “bad” healer. Both of them are awful to have in a group, I stay away from bears at all costs.
People playing off-meta specs are either enthusiasts, or less experienced and less aware of trends in the game, which is usually what caused them to gravitate towards something that isn't as highly regarded in the first place. It's unfortunate, because even though Druid is correctly considered a bottom-tier tank right now, it's not actually bad, or behind the pack by all that much. It just requires a lot of game knowledge to play well, because you have to plan routes and manage pulls so differently from how you do on the other 5 tanks.
@@Achilliez Totally depends on what you're doing. Ursoc's Fury is better for defensive AoE stuff, so M+. Legacy of the Sleeper is better for DPS, so raid stuff. Barkskin Legendary is better for ST defense, so raid fights like Sylv and Jailer. If you're not worried about defense, you can wear Legacy of the Sleeper in M+, but it is a gamble. I did it last week in a +19 Gambit and was destroying trash packs, but it was a Tyrannical week. Probably wouldn't be too eager to try that on a Fortified week.
![Blizzard Is Breaking Glass in Case of Emergency! [Patch 11.0.7]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9sNN22XX-4I/mqdefault.jpg)
Weakauras: wago.io/XBH-nA8XH
Plater Profile: wago.io/teE_Yavti
I was waiting for this which felt forever!
That's true!
I would add one thing, codex gets better and better with the key lvl. It is insane how much dmg you take on higher keys and when you have no cds, it helps a lot! But yeah there are better options for sure:)
That's true. The problem for Druid specifically is that even when you're not in your big Incarn CD window, you still have lots of shielding coming in from Thrash, and that shielding directly reduces the amount of damage that Codex is capable of reflecting.
DH is the only tank that doesn't have an absorb that interferes with the way Codex works (Ursoc's Fury, First Avenger, Ignore Pain, Blood Shield, and Stagger/Celestial Brew). It's also the tank that gets the least amount of defensive value out of primary stat, so they are the one tank that can really make good use of it. For everyone else, it is bait.
@@WoWatNight saying the codex is a bad trinket for bear is just wrong, as a bear main for the last 2 season even on a 15 codex does close to a mil healing and damage. Edit: ah you're a monk main that explains a lot.
@@cimeries3224 It's doing 500k total damage in 22-ish Junkyards, well under 500 DPS. It is nowhere close to the value of First Sigil or Cache in the majority of content.
Even in 27 Junkyards, the ideal use case in M+, it's still under 1 million total damage, around 600-700 dps. Again, that pales in comparison to a well-used Cache as an offensive trinket. It is a poorly-designed, over-nerfed trinket that is no longer good for any tanks other than VDH, and the players who think it is are being baited by the way it used to work.
Looking at all the log entries of it reflecting literally dozens of damage has been fun, though.
@@WoWatNight Hey! Thx for the answer. I checked raider io and almost every Guardian wears it there... are they all blind or is it at that keyrange the best?
@@thorstenwolk76 It's a bit of both, tbh. It is functionally a minor defensive cooldown at a high key level, which is really good for VDH since it fits into their cooldown-rolling playstyle, and they benefit very poorly from Agility. It saw some use among Blood DK's in the 30+ range because of its value as a rando defensive CD, as well, and that has had the effect of causing all tanks to think it's good for them, too.
There are a lot of players who have tricked themselves into using Codex in higher-level keys. I've seen logs of it in +29 Upper Kara where it's doing 500 DPS, for example. That's really bad compared to a trinket like Reactive Defense Matrix, which gives you more shielding and damage overall, and doesn't force you to give up primary stat to get it.
It's not like it will ruin your character to equip, but it's weaker than Reactive Defense Matrix, it's weaker than Cache, it's weaker than First Sigil, it's weaker than any of the Agility/Vers trinkets, and while Codex gets stronger at higher levels, it doesn't get better than the alternatives, it just gets closer in value. It's possible some of the players using it have baited themselves because it's good on VDH and BDK. It's possible some of them just don't have the superior alternatives at a competitive item level.
For singletarget dps, do you spam mangle or thresh during incarn? If mangle is the way to go, does thresh become better when playing ursocs fury remembered?
If you aren't wearing Ursoc's Fury Remembered, you use Mangle against 1-3 targets during Incarn once you have 3 stacks of Thrash active. if you are wearing UFR, it's Thrash the whole time, even in ST.
Since i haven't gotten them yet (started playing again in s4 not too long ago), is it possible to just macro all the 3 min stuff together (cache, incarn, RF, weap) or is the gcd interfering in anyway?
You can macro them all together, but cache and any on-use weapon will be on a shared 20s lockout.
A L G O R I T H M
Hey, thanks for the nice video brother! I have a little request if its possible for you to share your UI it looks really nice and simple. Thank you
Sure, here you go!
Weakauras: wago.io/XBH-nA8XH
Plater Profile: wago.io/teE_Yavti
As for the unitframes and actionbars, they're Shadowed Unit Frames and Dominos Action Bars, and they're both pretty old addons, so they don't have good tools for sharing profiles. Probably going to switch to the revamped default UI in Dragonflight. It looks really good, it's easy to set up across characters, and it's not based on 10+ year-old addons!
@@WoWatNight thank you brother! Appreciated 👍
No legacy of the sleeper? For Lego??
We missed your comment when you originally left it, but we're trying to do better.
@@WoWatNight all good 😊
I wouldn't say guardian "starts to fall off" at 25. If you check wlogs, 25 is pretty much highest key for druids. Guardian sorely needs some sort of cooldown reduction on incarn. Best beginner tank though
They should probably nerf incarn and buff the baseline
Meh. The amount of people pushing past 25 is minimal. I would say +15 is achievable by most players
Absolutely. There are a handful of dedicated lunatics pushing +27's on time on Druid, and one of them finished a +30 Streets a few minutes over time. It's definitely possible to push into the upper key levels on a Druid, but ultimately, people who are committed to pushing as high as possible are going to gravitate toward the absolute best class, and Blood DK undeniably has a higher ceiling.
In terms of just slamming out some 15's, Druid's great. The ability to mass pull, pop the 3-minute combo and burn the majority of the trash between each boss down in a single pull is something most of the other tanks can't do that well. It's nice.
Blizzard should buff Druid's base tankiness, since they struggle without their Incarn combo, and they are in Dragonflight. The future's bright.
You have over 100k hp?
136k unbuffed in Bear Form!
Mangel! 😀
Mangel!
Gotta be honest, I have never seen an actually good bear druid. There are only two types
the new tank who barely pulls anything in dungeon, takes tons of damage, does some weird obscure route or doesn’t route at all and you end up under % at the end of the dungeon and is usually from emerald dream or Ragnaros…
OR the bear tank with no awareness who pulls absolutely huge even though he is the only person in the group who will survive… until his incarn runs out, then he falls over and blames the “bad” dps and “bad” healer.
Both of them are awful to have in a group, I stay away from bears at all costs.
People playing off-meta specs are either enthusiasts, or less experienced and less aware of trends in the game, which is usually what caused them to gravitate towards something that isn't as highly regarded in the first place.
It's unfortunate, because even though Druid is correctly considered a bottom-tier tank right now, it's not actually bad, or behind the pack by all that much. It just requires a lot of game knowledge to play well, because you have to plan routes and manage pulls so differently from how you do on the other 5 tanks.
You sound like the problem bro lmao
I should stop smoking weed. I thought this was dragonflight season 4 lmao.
Oops
Lol this didn't age well, as prot war is meta now xD
Guide? Just thrash lol
P much.
No legacy of the sleeper? For Lego??
It's there, at 23:12.
@@WoWatNight sorry I badly worded that question. I meant is it not as good as ursoc’s fury?
@@Achilliez Totally depends on what you're doing. Ursoc's Fury is better for defensive AoE stuff, so M+. Legacy of the Sleeper is better for DPS, so raid stuff. Barkskin Legendary is better for ST defense, so raid fights like Sylv and Jailer.
If you're not worried about defense, you can wear Legacy of the Sleeper in M+, but it is a gamble. I did it last week in a +19 Gambit and was destroying trash packs, but it was a Tyrannical week. Probably wouldn't be too eager to try that on a Fortified week.