Grooving MUD Tires For SNOW
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- My Cooper ST Maxx POR 35's mud tires are about four years old. Its time to groove them, make them air down better and hold more snow. I bought them originally for winter, based on price, but Its not a great choice as a winter tire for on road use, obviously. My main interest on tires, for me personally, is how they perform on the trails and deep snow.
The tough side wall on these isnt a good match for deep snow as you really want as larger footprint as possible for floatation.
I wouldn't really recommend you do this unless you have some old tires like me or have a plan in mind. Grooving has helped the tire perform slightly better in snow but ultimately they are too hard. They also air down slightly better now which I cannot test right now, but as the winter progresses I will see what floatation is like.
Its hard to find a 'REAL' winter tire in these sizes that take offroad and on road into account. Obviously there is the Nokian Hakkapeliitta 38 developed by Arctic Trucks which is a true winter tire. It has a very soft compound, stud holes and a 2 ply sidewall. It can be used on and off road and it would be the perfect tire for winter use on the XJ. BUT its expensive and requires a front axle swap.
If you have any recommendations let me know!
Thanks for all your support and thanks for watching.
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Jeep Spec:
1999 Jeep Cherokee XJ 2.5TD RHD.
Summer Tire - 35x12.50r15 BFG KM3's with 15x8 3.75" backspacing (-19 offset).
Winter Tire - Cooper Discoverer ST MAXX Por Studded 35x12.50r15 BFG KM3's with 15x8 3.75" backspacing (-19 offset).
Lift Front - RC 4.5" Coils and N2 Shocks (3" Coil Spacer).
Front Shock Bar Pin Eliminator.
Dana 30 High Pinion with Artec Industries Lower Control Arm Mounts with modified upper mount and modified Track Bar mount.
Front RC Control Arm Drop Bracket.
Ruff Stuff Short Arm Single Himes.
RC Extended Sway Bar Links.
Dana 30 Rock Crusher Diff Cover.
Ruff Stuff One Ton OTK Steering.
6" Lift Drop Pitman Arm.
Ruff Stuff Front and Center Frame Stiffeners.
Rear DIY Frame Stiffener and Rear Frame Tie in Kit.
6" x 2" Box Rocker replacement with Tube Slider.
Modified Factory Bumper with Side Sliders.
Rear Tow Hitch Tire Carrier that bolts into Rear Frame Tie in Kit.
Modified upper Shock Crossmember for Rear Shocks
Rear Axle Chrysler 8.25 29 Spline with modified High Clearance Shock Mounts.
Rear Shocks 6.5" Trailmasters.
Rear Leaf Springs 5.5" Rubicon Express
Rear RC Shackle Relocation Bracket.
Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines front and back.
Warrior 9500lb Winch.
Front Bumper - Ebay Custom Made.
This is why the channel is so cool, I'll be a little sad the day you buy stuff stock and don't have to mod it. I love watching the jeep evolve.
I don't think that days anywhere near haha! Plus I just love messing around with stuff. I wish I earnt enough to afford the insane shipping costs from the USA, but It really limits what You can buy here.
Thanks for watching.
So awesome to see Max helping you. Good job on the tires!
He's a lovely little chap. He's started coming to work with me sometimes. He normally lasts till 1200 and gets very grumpy and hungry, but that's not bad considering his age 😆.
Thank mate, the tires are better but still very hard unfortunately....
My husband and I really enjoy watching your videos on UA-cam, on our tv. I wish we had the money to be patrons, but we are Americans who live paycheck to paycheck, and things are about to get 100 times worse. Bet you can’t guess why? But thank you for cheering us up, and making us forget for a while that we are facing dire times.
I'm glad you guys enjoy the videos, and thank you for watching! Honestly, watching is more than enough! I think I a lot of people are in a similar boat, me included. Paychecks stay the same while everything continues to increase. I hope things don't go in the wrong direction for you, and thanks again!
I agree with everything you said about AT tires, winter tires, and driving on snow & ice. Not enough people understand these things. well done!
It's a complicated subject, as you know, and I think there is such a huge difference in winter driving and offroad snow floatation. Thanks for watching and Merry Christmas
@ 100%
And you too :)
That outro was amazing 😲👍
Thanks for watching!
I had those tires and they were surprisingly good on all types of terrain. But what you did, now it looks great! Way more aggressive and I'm sure a lot more grip.
Greetings from Croatia!
They are good tires. In deep snow, not so much but with the grooving they are really performance much better. Thanks for watching
this is the only type of snow we get in the uk, as you may remember. but i can concur tyre choice makes a hell of a difference, was overtaking Disco's on the moors in my 2wd golf while they sat there spinning their (summer) tyres
The closest true winter tire that I can think of that might meet your requirements is the Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3. Biggest size they come in is LT315/70R17 which is the same size the Ford Raptor comes in and they are specifically designed for light trucks in the snow.
Great video. Fantastic outro 👏
Thanks for watching
Always ran Bridgestone blizzaks as my dedicated winter. Interesting video. Thanks for creating.
They look like a real winter tire. I don't know if they make these proper winter tires in the sizes i'm looking for. Thanks for watching and for the tire name.
Funnily enough, I bought some Cooper tyres because they had a 3-year no-split warranty. The UK is now really hot on this now. They are really good bang-for-buck tyres.
They are good value for money!
Thanks for watching.
Quick tip : just turn the blade upside down now you can sipe with it instead of grooving..a lot of sipes help a lot ..I have done several sets of mud tires that way ..really helps
I tired it but it didn't work so well. The heat didn't transfer into the ends of the blades, just the curved part. When I turned up the heat, they kept brining in half.
Thanks for watching
Making the best of what you have 👏🏻
Degrease the tire helps a lot and wider rim helps when its aired down, but you are on the right track to get the most out of a "road" optimized mud tires, i have the toyo open country mt, 37" 14.5 x 15" softer compound then the cooper. But have noticed lighter trucks can sometimes benefit from less aggressive tires so they can spinn with out digging down. Love the content😀🇮🇸
The budget always has the last word, great video.
That it does mate! Thanks for watching.
Hey Mike, great job on the siping that is a very handy tool! I may have come across something that could interest you. The Yokohama IceGuard Studless GO75 (Proper proper compound and siping winter tire) is now available in 315/75 R16 or 34.5 inch in your weird british numbers. It is also available on some swedish tyre sites. Obv this assumes you are running 16 inch rims. I didn't check 17s or 15s. It costs around 340€ per piece so around 1400€ for a set of 4 obv without studding, but im sure that could be done. Great Video and maybe this helps for future winter!
Thanks, mate. I will take a look online and check them out. I think I will be pulling the studs on these and running them over summer until they add dead.
Next year, I do need some better wnyer tires, given that's the most dangerous time of year.
Hopefully, these take me through one more winter, but they are really done now. Thanks for watching and for the suggestion.
One small prick mate and it's all over 😢🏴
@@shaunmccaw2911 Im not sure, I run Nokians LT3s and they have these aramid sidewalls and they are quite rigid, we run Bridgestone Blizzaks on a mazda pickup and they are absolutely fine on gravel and forest roads.
I think the yokohamas would be fine especially considering the thick sidewall of a 35 and the load rating. Forestry companies run regular studded road winter tires, even with chains, just fine here in Austria. Obviously they won't be as tough as an MT though.
I personally think the offroad and onroad benefits of the winter compound and siping would outweigh plugging a tire maybe once or twice per winter.
It had studs, rubber, getting hard and soft, but it also had some mild hooning in the snow. I remember trying to hoon in a snowy carpark in a friend's Fiesta in the UK, it didn't go well.
"Watch This!" I said. Then proceeded to stamp on the throttle, turn the wheel and lift off the throttle to try and get the car to rotate, the cheap summer tyres obviously were having none of it and we proceeded to slide straight on into a curb at full lock! That wheel was never the same again...
The only thing missing was bigfoot! Haha that sounds like some classic UK snow weather behavior. My 1.4 Rover Metro saw a similar fait when we use to get snow. I remember some crazy snow days back in the day.
Thanks for watching.
@WorkshoptoWilderness The Hairy bastard was probably fogging up your windows while you got your groove on.
The Brit coming out, "Off into the sunset and hit a tree". LOL.
Haha thanks for watching!
Hate " The Devil's Dandruff" One of the reasons I chose central Arizona for retirement. We get very little here. Good tire advice for those who need it, thanks.👍👍
Always a pleasure mate.
Thanks for watching
I've siped & grooved a few sets of mud terrains. Like you said there's no magic but I'm a believer in the difference it can make. My suggestion is groove out more rubber to allow the tire to flex and huck more snow (center blocks). It looks like you are in the deeper snow... where the siping helps more with hard packed snow and ice. It sounds like you are ready to try a different set of tires so why not cut these up a bit more. Greetings from Canada.
I've made a razor blade siping tool. I've got nothing to lose like you said. I will sipe the centre blocks more and see how it goes! Thanks for watching and for the tip.
That was a sweet edit at the end.
Thanks for watching!
Stay safe Mike
Thanks, mate, and appreciate you watching.
Thanx Mike.
Thanks for watching!
Nice work! Just a friendly reminder. You do know this from this year the tire has to have the right markings on the sidewall, the mountain with a snowflake. Otherwise they are not considered a winter tier here in Sweden
This is from transportstyrelsen -
Be marked with the "Alpine" symbol (3-peak-mountain with snowflake), or be studded.
Its the "or" that's in bold that sets the exception from what I've been told. I could be wrong, this is just what the guys at the garage told me. I need to check properly. It could be bullshit
Obviously its better to have a winter tire but finding them in such sizes is the problem unless you have the money for arctic trucks 38"
Thanks for the heads up and for watching.
I’d check out the falkens for your next winter tire. A lot of good things have been said about the AT3Ws they just put out the AT4Ws not too long ago they do have a harder compound compared to the AT3W but a lot of winter reviews either way. I just picked up the AT4W on my Cherokee run great in rain waiting for snow to see how they handle but they also have “pitch sequencing” so that’s a plus
Good job grooving those tires. They came out great!! Have you ever thought about softening the compound. I will not confirm nor deny softening tires in my old dirt track racing days…. But it worked pretty well 😅
I got a tip for you but just the tip,lol they make soft compound MT's just saying and there is no jack of all trades tire have fun in the snow mike I'm hoping we don't get any snow this year
Thanks mate, I appreciate the tips! I need them, as many as I can get haha. I will shop around but the choices are limited. I'm hoping for lots of snow lol, but my wish is not coming true. Its all gone again.
Thanks for watching.
Was looking forward to this video Mike! I think your efforts made a difference. Holding snow a little better for sure. But as you say. It’s all about the rubber compound.
If you go for a bigger tire Mike. You might need some lighter rims to help offset the weight. Check out method bead grip rims. Not a full bead lock. But better than a regular wheel. And guys seem to air down to 4 psi with them in the snow and not loose a bead.
But I get it. That’s even more $$$. New tires and rims. 😢
Ah that's a cool tip, i've not heard of those rims before! I will check them out. The bead locks I use are heavy. I can feel the difference between winter and summer. Its made a slight difference I think but I will see how it goes over the winter.
Thanks for watching.
Yessss some hooning 👌 sideways is so fun in the snow
I couldn't help myself! Thanks for watching mate!
Good work 👍
Thanks for watching.
Been looking for tires for months, there are those that will work best, those that look awesome and then what I can afford.... 2nd hand half bald beaters lol. Never used a tire groover, looks like it made a difference even if only slight!
What you've described is the problem really. For a large floatation winter tire its big money! The grooving made a difference although I think even more grooving with some razor blades would make them even better.
Thanks for watching!
Look into the Falkin Wild Peak A/TW3 or A/TW4 in my opinion great all around tires
Thanks for the info!
Good luck!
I will most likely need it!! Thanks for watching
@@WorkshoptoWilderness Same here. Cheers!
You should try a snow sock rather than chains. They hold snow and ice very well. When my son skied in international competitions I was surprised how well they worked in mixed snow and ice mainly in the alps.
I've considered them, and I think you're absolutely right. They will be much better than a chain. I've seen lots of videos of them, and they hold the snow really well! It might be worth doing for snow floatation when the snow is sticking together. Thanks for the suggestion! I will take a look online.
Thanks for watching
The weight alone
I’m sure Bigfoot appreciates you taking off the rubber. You can go deeper and harder into the back country. Don’t worry about being too hard. Like you said, better in the muddy and wet.
Hes probabaly eagerly awaiting my next camp. I've head his howls at night, also him nocking his wood on wood.
Thanks for watching.
Hey Mike, curious if you're considering hauling around spare front axles now with the locker in snow? I guess snow doesn't have the same traction properties as rock just curious what you're thinking. Also that skidding stop video was cool to see your fronts lock up but backs still roll. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work but are you running a different prop valve with the WJ brakes?
Hey, the rear drums brakes currently don't work so well and need rebuilding....again. normally, they lock up. I will most definitely carry some spare shafts around for the front. I'm considering going with CV's and carrying the U-Joint shafts as spares. I'm not sure how that will work out, but if they brake, at least I can continue driving.
Thanks for watching!
I just grooved and swiped mine for winter..I get all I can get out of my tires..
You're a stud 😂
At least bigfoot seems to think so! Thanks for watching.
@WorkshoptoWilderness hahahaha
You could also try some much smaller shallow sipes by bolting 6 or so single sided razor blades together with 3 m4 bolts use 3 nuts (one per bolt) between each blade as a spacer. Push the combined block of blades a couple of mm into each tread block at right angles to sidewall this should create a lot more edges to grip ice and snow.
You could actually use a stack of appropriately sized washers between each blade and they could act as depth stop as well
That's a really good idea and I'm going to try it! I don't have much to lose as the tires are already shit. I will try and make a bladed jigg like you suggested and see if I can push it through the blocks. Thanks for the tip 👍 it might just turn the tables for these over hardened donuts
@@WorkshoptoWilderness delete my comment and claim it! 🤣
Did you have to make any legal request to your car registration since you have made many mods (lift, tires, weight, etc...) from the stock model or is it legal in sweden and in the UK to make those changes? Here in Portugal it is very dificult and expensive to make thoose kind of changes. Keep the good work and expecting the next one!
Thanks for the video. Odd question what are those pants? Can you share a link?
They are from haglofs in this video. Normally, I wear Revolution Race which are similar but better. Thanks for everything
I’ll be honest I’m no expert with tyres, I didn’t know you could cut slits in them. I do like the coopers, I looked at them when buying mine but they didn’t have them in my size.
Wish we had snow like that here in the uk! I’m up north and it’s just shitty sleet in the winter
Tires are such a varied subject. It's crazy really. Coopers make nice tires, although nothing anyone makes is actually a winner tire, unfortunately. Apart from Nokian hakkapeliitta..
I hope we get some snow that actually stays! Thanks for watching
“depends on where you live in the world” true true feet of sugar snow to arid high desert in a day. Then there is the transition between snow to ice to sticky mud. Makes it very hard to pick a tire!
Duratrac Wrangler isn't to bad winter performance, it is even labeled with the winter peak symbol, but I do like my small Hakkapeliitta better for on road performance.
They look pretty nice! Thanks for that, I will dig a bit deeper and see what they are priced at. Thanks for watching.
@@WorkshoptoWilderness
3 peak snow symbol (3PMSF) usually indicate that it is a good snow tire.
My experience with winter tires are as follows:
35x12.5R15 Goodrich AT with studs and siping performance is okay the first 1 or 2 seasons, but not recommended as they perform poorly compared to proper winter tires.
235/75R15 Nokian Nordman/hakkapeliitta 8, best performing winter tires I have ever had on a larger vehicle. Grips really well on both ice, snow and slush. Sadly too small to perform any good offroad.
235/85R16 Nokian hakkapeliitta LT2 with studs, performs decent but you can really tell it is a "cargo van" tire as it is stiff. A happy medium between offroad tires and road tires.
33" ish Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac with studs, best offroad style winter tire I have ever tried, grips well and can safely be used in winter conditions. Also performs well offroad/deep snow.
Old worn 40x13.5R17 with heavy duty studded tire shains, best deep snow compintion I have tried. Probably because of the size and chains that makes it able to contact the ground most of the times where I use them. Strictly for offroad/logging roads though.
You do get hakkapeliitta LT3 in 35" tires, they are pretty expensive, but still a lot cheaper than the Artic Truck tires.
Just found Nokian Nordman 8 SUV 265/70R17 for only 2370NOK a pop, a great all-round winter tire I would assume as you get some flotation with the size and yet a great on road tire.
Nordman 8 is the same as hakkapeliitta 8, the Nordman range comes as a more budget friendly option than the hakkapeliitta and is based on the last generation hakkapeliitta. Ex. if the current hakkapeliitta is 10, then the current nordman tire is 9 and so on.
Also, the older I have become the more I appreciate a proper road winter tire with proper grip for the winter season. The days I would use a MT or AT tire with siping and studs are gone. Better to have a dedicated snow wheeling rig with 40" tires and proper studded tire chains 😁
@@WorkshoptoWilderness
Wrote you a long and detailed reply here on my experience with different winter tires for larger 4x4 vehicles, but youtube seem to have erased it or something.
Will not write it all again, but can tell you that you do get Hakkapeliitta LT3 tires in 315/70R17 which is about 35" and great performing on the road compared to MT tires.
They are expensive, but quite a lot cheaper than Artic Truck tires.
You got to prove your love to me.... Ohh yeah...
Perhaps a couple of cool glasses of potato water, followed by one of my all-time classes, Brain Dead by Peter Jackson?
@@WorkshoptoWilderness I probably should have added some context, Madonna's get into the groove..... Tyres, groove.. Sorry.... , I'm Irish, so yeah.. Potato water sounds great..
Great informative vid as always, just a point on the cutting technique, a word of warning from experience, keep your other hand behind the cutting tool or wear a sturdy leather glove, because if the cutting tool slips you WILL cause an injury. Dont want appear trying to teach your granny how to suck eggs, but it bloody hurts when you cut a tread in your hand.😮
I appreciate the word of caution! Something for me to remember next time.
Thanks for watching and appreciate it.
Gd my man. I feel like you just stopped filming snow videos like one month ago. Haha. Seasons are quick.
Summer is short here haha. Its been a late start to winter this year as all that snow has melted again :(
Thanks for watching!
I don’t know what l am talking bout but when you get off road could you dual up your tires on the rear sorry just a thought
My rear axle would brake, unfortunately. It's just not man enough for double meats. It's been done before though!
minus 20 F is not minus 20C though:) yet, in Russian your video is essential
I mean -20c. I don't think I said Fahrenheit although I do talk a lot of shit sometimes ! You guys get some extremely cold temps over there, I cant even imagine it. I think -48c was the coldest I have experienced and it was pretty brutal.
Thanks for watching.
Mike how do you find out what tread wear rating your tyres have? I just sold 4 Cooper STT Pros, I got them almost new and after about 15k miles they’d lost over half their tread, I couldn’t find anything on the tyre about how hard the tread wear is
That tire does wear quickly, apparently, but I haven't seen anything online in the specs indicating this. The bfg km3 also wears quickly. Mine are pretty much gone after four summers and not that many miles.
I'm guessing mud terrains in general are like this because of the compound and what they are meant to be used for. ATs last way longer but are a lot harder. From what I've seen, it's just loosely written in the description of the tire sometimes. Unless I've missed something, which wouldn't surprise me.
I've got studded winter tires on my pickup, but that set is complete trash. I regularly struggle to get moving from stoplights if there's even a slight incline. I wish Nissan would even let me engage the rear locker without 4wd.
Are your winter tires not any good? I mean, what I'm using is just rubbish. They feel good on cold days, but sjen you have to stop it's a disaster. Thanks for watching
@@WorkshoptoWilderness It's proper winter tires but some no-name chinese brand that came with the truck. They're barely any better that the BF Goodrich KO2 I have as summer tires. Used to haul 200kg of concrete slabs on the bed for better grip during the Finnish winter.
Well tired 😅
Are ya rear brakes working chap?
They need adjusting......again.
Are those still legal. The law in sweden just got changed
I'm still enquiring about it. The legislation isnt clear because it says things like "or studded" and "or some of these symbols with studs" on the charts. It makes it sound like if a tire doesn't have the 3pmsf symbol then having studs makes it legal to run provided it has M+S for example.
I will ask at the tire shop tomorrow as they would know.
Thanks for watching.
You dont half make me laugh
I will try not to 🙂 thanks for watching
Groovy tires man. So you know people take peoples's ideas and claim they came up with it. Hurts even worse when they market it.
1st
Thanks for watching