Why the YA Sci-fi Market Sucks
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2019
- Sci-fi struggles in the young adult fiction market. It comes and goes in waves, and if you're a YA sci-fi writer you'll definitely encounter more obstacles and disappointments than the average fantasy or contemporary writer. The YA publishing industry just doesn't GET sci-fi.
I"m sharing my insights into the market, in particular the CURRENT state of it: YA sci-fi is pretty dead. I explain why I think this is and offer background, as well as some (vague) hope.
I do want to disclaim that nothing I say is 100% universal in YA publishing, just generally true and may explain some of the deficits you've seen and some of the issues I've certainly encountered. Meaning: there are some specific publishers, editors, marketing teams, etc. who have done an AMAZING job acquiring and promoting YA sci-fi titles. They're just outliers, and that's sad.
Or, as I mentioned with dystopian--sometimes YA refuses to acknowledge that a popular title even IS sci-fi. Three of the mega hits I mentioned are partly sci-fi! The Hunger Games, Divergent, and Red Queen. But despite these hits you will still hear over and over again from agents and publishers that "sci-fi doesn't sell." I have heard this line VERBATIM in publisher rejections, as have many friends.
Pardon one spot in this video where the audio starts to experience some noise. The last 8 minutes of my footage was completely corrupted, necessitating my filming a new segment (which is at the end), but right before the switch, in interest of saving a few minutes of footage, I left in a short section that has mild audio issues.
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Has anybody else noticed that she's wearing a space shirt because im loving it
Cecilia Feltner
1.) That’s a really cool detail she left and you picked up on
2.) I’m your 40th like 😀
Yeah, and now she's green, like an exposed alien.
"Dont tell .. show "
@@ruchika1132 Funny how this 'author' is obsessed with YA and thinks that if you just change it to sci fi, that people ain't gonna notice it's YA. The problem is that if you gonna mis-genre your book, people are gonna hate you even more because they expect sci fi and you just wrote another YA novel. A lot of authortubers are destroying their entire career such as iwriterly that basically took none of her YT lessons to her own writing and wrote a YA novel disguised as sci fi.... and that's why she received so much backlash on her book that she went on a typical progressive style 'I can't take criticism' and brought in her twitter mob to positively review bomb her book that made her even more hated by the reader community.
I work in a book store, and often enough customers complain about the lack of YA sci-fi. It's sad.
It really is!!! YA publishing is convinced of this "truth" that isn't a truth, and it hurts the readers. If they let go of "every book has to sell gangbusters" and just acquire some good sci-fi titles for modest advances every season, everyone would win.
Now I understand why some adult sci-fi that i've read reads like YA sci-fi.
😂
Try EU
yeah coz it is YA. The dirty little secret of the traditional publishing market is progressive gatekeeping; which is why YA has been sprouting out of the ground like Cauliflower. This is also why the traditional houses are crumbling right now (used to be 5; 1 big take over and 3 are at bankruptcy) because they tried to push politics with YA novels instead of producing good entertaining stories for escapism. And people tend to read books to escape the current day world/politics. This is why the traditional publishing market is crumbling. So now you see the YA novelists try to call their books other genres, while it's still YA and practically speaking ruining those other genres with the reputation of YA junk.
The chicken and egg discussion was very interesting. It shows how non-linear publishing success is. I think the lack of an audience is a real problem going back to a deep rooted misconception that girls don't like science. And girls don't like science because they have fewer science/tech influences. They have less influences because society assumes they aren't interested. So YA scifi chicken/egg loop is stuck within a larger women and tech chicken/egg loop.
Nothing irks me more than the stereotype that "women don't like sci-fi." Like you, my gateway to sci-fi was The Giver which I read in 4th or 5th grade. (We started reading it in class, then my teacher one day told us the principal ordered her to stop the readalong, that it was "inappropriate" for us and she collected all the copies when we were only a few chapters in. I didn't care for my first brush with censorship so I got the book on my own and absolutely loved it.) Then when I was 12, the movie Independence Day came out and I was a goner. My current favorite sci-fi author is Adrian Tchiakovsky--I read Children of Time and now he is an auto-buy author for me.
Wow, that's weird the principal thought the giver was inappropriate. I read the book and watched the movie twice. Once in 6th and again in 7th. Nothing about it was inappropriate. Even in 7th they had us read divergent and watch the movie.
*hangs head* Lots of that stuff happens though. Think about the time Where's Waldo was banned for the woman laying down with her top off. Then again.......I did hate the giver growing up.*shrugs* like I said previously I feel some people just don't like certain type of genre.
You mentioned how it's easier to turn a YA into an Adult fic....I'd really like to see that elaborated on (or maybe there's a video already previously made that I missed?), for what the differences are and ways to make that transition, besides just writing slightly older characters.
thats an interesting topic! i'd also be interested to hear more about that...
I would also love to hear more about that!
Different is in adult books you have 0 limits torture allowed curseing sex is allowed
You might find it better reskinning your book as a fantasy.
The heart and sole of a story is the characters. Unless your story is about the science, swapping out magic for tech shouldn't cause any problems, and it's also really fun.
this!
I feel like Sci-fi does a lot better in film and tv in terms of reaching the wider audience as opposed to books. I love both genres of sci-fi and fantasy but all of my favorite sci-fi stories are in film media, whereas all of my favorite fantasy stories are in books. I think sci-fi is popular with a wide audience(in film/tv) they just haven't figured out how to get them to read it(the marketing issue). The opposite is true for fantasy, it is so popular as books but hasn't quite made it yet in film/tv(that might be changing with the advent of shows like Game of Thrones and all of the adaptations coming down the line) but it certainly isn't as consistent in film media.
What is popular in film and television often comes down to efficient visual storytelling. In novels, when a random dragon flies down for just a moment, it often takes a sentence - "a dragon flies down for just a moment" (okay yeah, horrible composition, also that wouldn't fly in the middle of a scene, but still). In a movie it requires millions of dollars and an entire character model for that one moment.
Contrast with Sci-fi. Animating a space ship is so much cheaper and easier than a believable living creature, or magic in general, that it's literally the difference between a shoestring TV budget and a summer blockbuster budget. No joke, animating a somewhat blocky hunk of metal is cheap and easy, while animating a detailed creature is expensive as hell.
Novels by contrast only need to somewhat describe their imagery. You can get as vivid and unique as you want so long as you can describe it (and know how to use a reader's imagination effectively). Thus, fantasy - which thrives on wonder and awe, thrives on those unique visuals - thrives in novel form (and comic form).
Sci-fi by contrast, I think part of the issue is that people don't know how to play to the medium's unique strengths. Novels can simply do things other mediums cannot, despite not being able to do things other mediums can. Some of the best sci-fi novels I've read make excellent use of novels' powers of descriptive utility and imagination, and yet most sci-fi novels today, don't really. Sci-fi as a genre thrives on the speculative, which is a form of imagery itself! And yet most modern "sci-fi" just sorta mimics stuff people already figured out years ago.
I agree that sci-fi dominates video over fantasy, but I really hate what it's doing to Sci-Fi. Film, and especially TV, can often spiral into ridiculousness. It also relys on different tropes for the viewing audience that can get very Melodramatic. A recent example I can think of is the new show "Another Life" on Netflix. It's a good show with a great premise: first contact with an alien species and humanity's quest to find answers both on world and in space. And yet, part of the show is also infuriatingly like a day-time soap opera with plots like: "Who is the daddy?" And "Which guy do I pick" and "None of the girls had time to put pants on this episode". There's this big section of the show that is just a popularity contest for hormonal and irresponsible 20 something year olds who act like they're sixteen. I'm not saying their is anything distinctly wrong with these kinds of plots or liking them, I just mean that a lot of sci-fi tv shows have that same feel and flavour and they run out of steam by their third season trying to drag on something that should have wrapped up. I wish we had more variety, things like "The Martian", "Signs" or "Interstellar" in the mix. Written fiction is often where I have to go to get this other side of sci-fi, but it's increasingly not there.
@@glitchygear9453 Wow, you have a point. Now, based on my own experience, I also love watching sci-fi movies and love reading fantasies. The sci-fi materials I read are usually short stories so I have lots of sci-fi short story reading experiences.
As someone who didn't grow up with reading habit and want to start now (but find it difficult), I wish more books have graphics.
It could be as simple as a line art/doodle, especially if the story relies on keeping the readers on page with the unconventional visuals.
My favourite casual books growing up had maps, and profiles, literal letters, and formatting that breaks the usual novel-esque wordy flow.
@@amy-suewisniewski6451 Yeah, sci-fis can be themselves more if not bound by the per-episode arc structure (i forgot the proper term atm).
Sci-fis work best as anthologies ("Love, Death + Robots", Black Mirror) because they don't have to adhere to conventional structure, since most Sci-fi literature-especially short story ones-thrive in experimenting with literary.
Me: *studying for major exam I need to pass for my major that is in 2 days*
UA-cam: *Alexa Donne uploaded a new video*
Me: Sorry Accounting, you can wait
I was due for a study break anyway. At least that's what I told myself
Sci-fi is one of my favorite genres. The problem I've had is finding scifi that doesn't make me want to die with how poorly the women are written. Look to podcasts if you want an example of how people actually do love scifi.
Yeah, it's a catch-22 that drives me batty. YA, being a woman-driven space (including by the awesome men who write YA women super well), would be a great space to develop a new crop of sci-fi with well-written women. Adult is very very slowly but surely working on their issues in that arena. But YA shuts the door more often than not when they COULD be leading the guard on change.
@@AlexaDonne Exactly! It's honestly a huge untapped market imo. I grew up around sci fi and I adore reading, but I've found myself sliding more and more into the audio drama community just because they offer stories that both explore my favorite genres and offer amazing characters I can actually relate to. The fandoms for them are absolutely rabid. We buy merchandise and donate to patreon and annoy the hell out of our friends telling them about our newest podcast obsession. It sucks that the publishing industry is still so stuck in old ideas they can't see the potential of cultivating those smaller hyper-dedicated fanbases.
Read illuminae if you haven't already. Its got the best written female characters.
**cough** wolf 359 **cough**
Hey :) you could try the Murderbot Diaries, Ancillary Justice, Fortune's Pawn & Calculating Stars. They're adult sci-fi, but feature wonderful female main or secondary characters :)
Thank you SO MUCH for posting this video. I’m a kidlit author who is dying to get into writing YA sci-fi (we share an agency, actually 😉), and have been told it’s not selling and to focus on MG sci-fi instead (which I also write & love, thankfully, but still). Thank you so much for breaking down some of the reasons behind why the YA sci-fi situation is the way it is right now. I honestly didn’t even know the questions to ask. You’ve given me lots of food for thought, and I will definitely keep working on my YA sci-fi “on the back burner”! (And btw, I loved Brightly Burning! ❤️👍)
me, after having a vague scifi idea only born a day ago with long-not-yet-condensed premise of a plot without any character and conflict whatsoever: perfect, this video was meant for me.
Fantastic video and discussion. I think there's SO MUCH potential with a YA midlist, for example:
- YA fantasy with male protagonists (Male protagonists seem to only be in dystopia.)
- YA books without romance (I think some people would enjoy that.)
- YA sci-fi (of course.)
- YA historical fiction
- Paranormal niches and zombie books. Survival books as well.
I think having more variety in YA will help bring in niche and new readers and just keep the market healthy. Just because a "boy goes to magic school" book or "girl overtakes society" book makes money a few times, doesn't mean it's going to make money for the 1000000th time.
I loved this topic! And it's so true that dystopian is sci-fi and it feels like a lot of times in YA, sci-fi gets disguised as something else to sell, but then it sells so it's funny that somehow that misconception sticks to the genre. I would say, for example, that They Both Die At The End and More Happy Than Not by Adam Silvera are both near-future sci-fi even though both are very low key about it, but I loved both of those
As someone who is super pumped for Starsight at first I was like WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE ARENT ANY MORE then you said no famous authors and yeah Brandon Sanderson gets to do whatever he wants
Every girl I know (myself included) loves sci-fi because of their Dads
Bah! I wish this wasn't true in my case but it is :P
I mean...yeah no that's true
Not me. I love sci-fi because of my mom. She got me wrapped up with Star Wars, Matrix, Terminator and a few other sci-fi franchises. And then I went off on my own.
My father and brother loves sci-fi and I still hate it for the poorly written female characters and the lack of minorities or minorities turned into aliens. The more they shove sci-fi down my throat the more I love fantasy
This is actually so true. When I was younger both my parents read alernately to me and my siblings and I still think that's why I love reading. But the point is wh ikle my mom read Common Children's Books with us like Harry Potter, Narnia and others... my dad read mostly sci fi books with us for example by Jules Verne, Douglas Adams, etc..
Thank you for this video and all your "real talk" about traditional publishing! I love sci-fi, especially space opera and fleet academy tropes. I've always been disappointed in the amount of YA sci-fi getting published. Your video is validating my decision to re-write my YA space opera as adult.
It's ironic a genera seen as "juvenile" by people who have never read it is dead in the Young Adult market.
Err I hate to say it. But I've seen the opposite. Most of the people who try to push sci-fi push it as "adult" and "cerebral" and in general not intended for kids or young adults. Then again the last time I was in a sci-fi fandom was in the early 80s. After the star wars and star trek fandoms and sexism I don't even want to consider any? more sci-fi. Have things really changed that much?
Alexa, I super appreciate your "real talk" about the industry.
Like you, I am a woman who did not grow up reading sci-fi--and now it is my favorite genre (I also write it). One reason why I've grown to love sci-fi is specifically that is does *not* rely on tropes. I like its capacity for social commentary. I seek out fresh, original concepts, and trope subversion, when I read.
So ... I don't think that sci-fi needs to be relegated to a niche, but it should be capable of challenging the status quo, and taking risks, rather than following trends. I have criticisms about the way trad pub handles that in general--across all genres, and no matter whether the fiction is aimed at adults or at teens.
I see innovation happening in the sci-fi genre out of trad pub. It's happening with online serialization, and in the indie scene. That's where I've ended up, because I am very passionate about this topic.
@AbbyBabble on Wattpad, for anyone interested.
Oh, no! I'm scared to watch this (since that's my genre!)! And also excited to hear your views and advice (because you are awesome!)!
I find the whole YA business model depressing and short-sighted.
Sing it!
Same
Have you ever addressed the difference between the YA writing style and the Adult writing style? I've never read YA before so I'm curious.
YA tends to be faster-paced (but that's not always the case). And while MG themes tend to be about the main character's place in their family, YA tends to be about the main character finding their place in the world. In adult fiction the story and characters can be more interesting than the writing "voice", but YA's tend to have strong voices that are a feature in and of themselves. This is a generalization, and I'm not saying that adult fiction books don't or can't have a strong voice, but in YA people tend to talk about the "voice" of the book more than the "voice" of adult ficiton novels.
@@taymc407 Thanks! That was way more helpful than anything I managed to find online, lol
@@ragingdevi My pleasure, happy writing :)
Dink everytime she says sci-fi.
(water. Drink water. Please stay safe.)
Kelley Armstrong was one of my favorite YA authors. Her books were a mix of sci-fi and paranormal. I really enjoyed the genre mash.
I felt her books were more urban fantasy than sci-fi
LOVED this discussion. I think conversations about YA publishing ATM in general are super interesting. I need to go through these comments because I'm actually looking for some YA SF recs! Also-GIRL YOU ARE ALMOST AT 50K SUBS!? Wahoo!
Where can you see the schedule for up and coming books in different genres?
I absolutely love you and your videos. I am writing my first novel and you are helping me so much.
Do you have much advice for Supernatural fiction? (ghosts, wtiches, etc.)
I just looked at the 150 + books I have on my anticipated 2020 releases and for the most part the only scifi on there are sequels. Now Im sad where did my scifi go!? I hope another wave of them comes soon
Really enjoyed this video! Have you considered doing a video on ya sci-fi tropes? You mentioned that a lot of people don't even know they like sci-fi and I'd be very curious to hear what your take on the subgenre is. I've never been particularly drawn to sci-fi in YA or Adult but I'm very open to having my mind changed :) Thanks!
What SF tropes do you prefer? And what tropes do acquisition and sales consider to be Science Fiction? (I apologize if I missed that part in this or previous videos.) I think I know what I think qualifies as Sci-Fi, but I'm not in the industry, so my ideas may not matter.
My Post-Dystopian WIP might be considered YA Sci-Fi, but, then again, it might not. It might be closer to New Adult, and though it's hard as a rock SF, it's mostly in the background as setting for what is really a religious and political epic and love story that might appear to be fantasy, except for science always keeping open the possibility that certain events have rational explanations... if that makes sense.
And this is why I'm writing adult sci-fi. And I also know that it will be hard anyway.
Hey, publishers, I'm a WOMAN and I LOVE sci-fi! I've been reading astronomy since I was 6!
Ugh, YES! My querying list is so freaking tiny! I see people saying *I queried 100+ agents before I got a full request." And I'm like "I found like 20...."
YES! I don't have comp titles for my sci-fi! :(
Thank you for saying all of this, so I don't have to.
Do you have any thoughts on YA books series that age out of YA by the final book or books?
Edit: Not sure if anything like that has hit the market before and I guess that’s why I’m wondering about it.
is it like this for YA fantasy as well?
Thanks for this video. Depressing as it was, it's better to go into these things with eyes open. Out of curiosity, how would you classify a book like Rory Power's "Wilder Girls" (if you've read it)? Would that possibly be one of the sci-fi/contemporary mashups you talked about? It seemed like it sold pretty well--or at least I assume so since it hit the NYT list.
So obviously if you read it, you and I know it is sci-fi. But. It's also contemporary, and horror. It falls under the umbrella of just being "speculative fiction." It's also a bit literary. Thus I don't consider it a hard genre book, and it's been able to (rightfully!) get its footing because it was beautifully written and justttt speculative enough that it was something the publisher could market well and readers could get into. It's the kind of speculative fiction that generally does well in YA because it's not really sci-fi. It's sci-fi-ish. (And also it's beautiful--style matters a lot)
I recently found your channel, and just wanted to say how much I've been enjoying your videos. Love the creative -and- business perspective. Thanks so much for sharing!
Hi! New viewer, came here from the Nov2020 'decline of YA fiction' video. I notice that this video aired before the release of the Mandalorian; with its breakout success among the mainstream public (I've always been a SFF nerd, but the other day I was surprised to overhear two teenage girls gushing over the show), I wonder if there's been any kind of effect on the acceptance of sci-fi content?
I'm forutnate I read so much adult SF in my youth because SF has become such a massive part of my formative genres. SF needs some kind of broad-appeal work that both adult and young readers can fall in love with across genders. There will be pushback from the core SF market when this happens purely because this isn't a book for them.
Thanks, this is really helpful! I was querying a YA science fantasy earlier this year. I've now paused for edits, but I got absolutely zero interest from agents - but 2 full requests from smaller publishing houses. This kinda explains why, a little bit! (part of it was that my book needed some work, of course.) I've been obsessed with sci-fi since my middle-school self discovered Anne McCaffrey, and it makes me sad that there aren't more YA space operas. Maybe one day, mine will sneak in, too. :)
My husband and I were talking about this topic the other day. I came up with an idea for a Middle-grade scifi and I wasn't sure if it should be a book or t.v show. My husband thinks it might work better as a TV show, but not sure if a network would take a chance because it's kind of very 90s in nature.
Of course, that conversation leads to the conversation of a lost generation of sci-fi lovers because there aren't many scifi inspired children or middle-grade tv or books right now. When we were kids and I'm dating myself Next Gen was on and then my Husband got really into DS9 in middle and high school. I loved the Tomorrow People on Nichalodian and watched other SciFi shows too. They aren't cultivating the next generation of scifi lovers.
Would an adult light sci-fi with YA crossover also appear on YA shelves? I’m working on a manuscript at the moment with a 23 y/o character but really want it to appear on YA shelves because as a reader I hardly ever look at adult bookshelves even though I’m slightly older than the mc! D:
What about YA sci-fi series do books pitched as series get published and then they cut the publishing halfway through because the trend dies or do they just not accept sci-fi series at all?
I grew up with Star Wars and Star Trek because my dad thought it was a shame that Disney was the only thing girls ever were given as a "this is for them" idea. I always suspected it was a gender thing for why YA doesn't have many sci-fi books and it's so disheartening to see it's true. I really liked Defy the Stars and The Lunar Chronicles because there were sci-fi elements in them. But goddamn do I want more actual sci-fi books in YA, not simply elements.
I know that your videos are a lot of work. Thank you for your work. I am an old writer trying to write a book I pitched to James Dickey in the "80's. I am that old. He really liked it. I was writing for a newspaper and shelved it. It is historical fiction. I have 1 more chapter to go for my rough draft. Thanks for the videos,
Marie Lu, Victoria Schwab and Marissa Meyer does well in YA sci-fi!
What YA sci-fi did Victoria Schwab write? The only sci-fi I can think of she's written is Vicious, and that's adult.
Also, the rules are different for famous authors.
I gotta agree. The books Vicroria Schwab wrote weren't really sci-fi in my eyes. I'm a teen librarian. If your books doesn't get checkout out in 6 months(room is so tiny) your book is weeded and thrown in the trash. She has no books in our teen room currently because they do not make it. No matter who many displays I put up or information I put in my booktalks her books do not last. Marie Lu's only book we have left is Legend. Young elites did horrible. Warcross lasted a little longer than 6 months. I can get people to read Marissa Meyer. That;s it. Aurora Rising is doing ok as well
When I was in highschool in the early 2000s I read the Dune series, Star Wars books, Ray Bradbury shorts, Asimov's Foundation series and anything else I could get my hands on in the genre. Granted most of my friends were absorbed in fantasy, mostly R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms and Tolkien.
I wonder why SciFi literature fans make up a smaller readership than other genres
This video feels super serendipitous to me because my first MS is a YA Sci-Fi but I’ve been feeling the urge lately (without knowing anything about how the genre was doing) to put it aside for the time being and dedicate nanowrimo to making progress on a YA fantasy idea that’s been floating around in my mind. Thank you so much for sharing all this great information with us Alexa, even if it is sad to hear as a sci-fi enthusiast. You helped me make my decision about what project to pursue 😊 hopefully sci-fi will cycle back and by then I’ll have that original MS ready to go.
I see professional writers say it's always good to have a few manuscripts on a shelf for future publication when the marker trend changes! Good luck!
marumae thank you!! 😊
always interesting to hear you talk about the publishing industry! It sucks that sci-fi is so neglected in the YA world, and like you said a lot of it has to do with marketing.
I mean I don't know if I'll run into this problem head-on (since most of my sci-fi adjacent projects are very soft and tend to fall more into the space opera/space fantasy subgenre, and the ones that aren't quite as soft are still usually science fantasy) but it's still good to know.
Hey Alexa! You continue to provide incredible content for us, and I'm so incredibly thankful for your help on all topics including book marketing, book money, and querying. Could you consider this question for a future video? Q: I often hear that it is a mistake to pitch all of your dream agents on your first batch. Do you agree? I am about to start querying, and I obviously love my book--so what happens if a not-dream agent loves it too, and offers me a deal before I've had the chance to shoot higher? Thank you so much for your help! -Joe
Loved this discussion! Would love to see a video with you elaborating on sci-fy tropes and subgenres.
Thank you so much for uploading this video. This makes my heart hurt, but it's really good to be prepared.
I'm going to stop querying my post-apocalyptic YA and hope for a trend to swing around eventually. I really thought that it didn't count as dystopia and thus would be exempt, but. . . I can see that wasn't the case. I've gotten some really nice personalized rejections, all something like, "This is well-written. It's not for me, but I'm sure someone else will love it." But this really could be step-asides due to an unsalable concept.
My next project is set in the present with ghosts and one vampire. There's a bit of romance, but it's not the central plot. I would love some opinions: Should I query it as paranormal or contemporary fantasy? I think of it as "speculative," but it's clear that marketing it in a different way would be advantageous.
Alexa, you're a gem. This is one of the most helpful videos on authortube I've seen in a long time. Thank you!!
Super interesting to hear your point of view. I mainly read adult, but some of my all time favorite YAs are sci-fi. I love watching your videos because I don't read new releases very often (only because I'm cheap and go to used bookstores) but your vids make me want to run to barnes and nobles and support all the new authors haha
loved this! it was so informational and shed so much light on why there is such a lull in sci-fi books right nowww
This hurts my poor little sci fi writer soul but i needed to her it.
I really like how this video talks about accessibility in terms of writing. I really love how Alexa Donne's books written because they feel more accessible to me in terms of style. Point blank: I can't read high fantasy and hard-core sci-fi. And any sci-fi I had been introduced to was hard sci-fi and I hated it. But then Veronica Roth came onto the scene and that was sci-fi to me. I discovered soft sci-fi through her because her style was more accessible for me to read. It wasn't like most sci-fi books and short stories I had been introduced to.
I knew all my friends loved hard sci-fi but I hated it and chalked it up to it being for "smarter" kids and people because I just wasn't as "good" at math and science. I even find Dr. Who and the old Star Trek to be too hard for me yet I absolutely love Firefly. So I disqualified myself from sci-fi because all I had been introduced to was hard sci-fi until I was introduced to the Divergent Series and Firefly. I don't know exactly why I gravitated towards Firefly because that feels particularly like hard sci-fi to me but I assume it's because of the heavy reliance on the western and adventure feel, which was something I had never been introduced to before from a sci-fi lens.
And I really agree there needs to be a higher precedence placed on the differentiation between hard and soft sci-fi so there is a better balance on the market in general. But I think soft sci-fi would do much better in the YA market than hard sci-fi while at the same time, I feel like there's also a lot more hard sci-fi out there than soft sci-fi on shelves in general. Which, in turn, I think makes the genre more inaccessible to general commercial readers that could have otherwise been weaned into hard sci-fi earlier.
Tend to agree. I hate Star Trek with a flaming passion; I could never into the Gundam Franchise despite giving that a chance...or mecha anime in general outside of TLGG and Eva; and Legend of the Galactic Heroes literally bored me to sleep, despite anime elitists saying it's the best anime of all time (why they say that is beyond me). But I love softer sci fi and fantasy. FMAB is my favourite anime of all time, and that's a soft fantasy series and I'm really digging Fate. It's just more accessible to me and are just much more fun to read/watch then watching politics (which I have to deal with enough irl) and people babbling in front of a conceal. I think if YA publishing houses had more softer sci fi titles with diversity in them (since I think that's another problem, considering sci fi is rather lacking in that area, especially in with how women are treated, and that turns people off), then more people would be interested and buy them.
Also, if you want any recommendations...
For books, Melissa Meyer's stuff leans more towards the softer side of thing for sci fi. Leigh Bardugo's stuff are softer fantasy. Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom are some of my favourite YA books.
But if you like anime, Dr Stone, The Fate Franchise, My Hero Academia, The Promised Neverland, Demon Slayer and Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood are worth a go. They're all on the softer side of both the fantasy and sci fi side of things. They all have anime adaptions with dubs, so it's a lot easier to consume then a book. Most of them are either on Netflixs or Amazon Prime. Oh, also, Avatar the Last Airbender is worth a shot. It's a cartoon, not anime. But there's a reason why people say that it's one of the best western cartoons of all time.
Interesting video, Alexa. I feel your pain. I write adult sci-fi. The market is not great in it, either. We love what we love, however, and we want to share it. Maybe we should consider sci-fi cop/FBI and medical facility plots. Those seem evergreen on TV!
The show "Travelers" did something similar to this. It was a time travel scifi about preventing a dystopia, but had the flavour of a FBI team, mystery/investigation of the week type show... I may have swooned and binged it in like 2 days. Then rewatched it all again with my spouse. XD
Actually even The Expanse has a 'PI on a mission' subplot that I feel imparts some of that noiry flavour.
So, yeah certainly seems like scifi could probably try and mix some of these more popular tropes in to good effect. (I know I'd watch 'em! :D)
Always appreciate your efforts and information. And motivation.
I'm working on a sci fi book. It's adult, but sort of in the way that some of the new superhero movies are "adult". And it has a lot of subverted genre tropes, including just some flat out contemporary drama subplots, because it's a time travel story with present-day characters who are motivated to continue with their present-day lives. And now that I think of it, I have no f**ing clue how a story like this could or should be marketed.
That sounds sort of similar to the type of time travel Connie Willis writes. Maybe check out her books as comps?
Thanks so much for this! I just finished what I call a YA science fiction book, but I almost want it to be adult. The main characters are solidly young teens, but I grew up reading adult sci fi, not YA sci fi, and I would actually love to sell it as adult. Lots to think about as I start looking at agents!
What do you think of Warhammer 40k and the Horus Heresy books?
Would love to see a video on what you consider the difference between ya and adult sci fi or how to determine what you’ve written
This is random but I would love to see a video where you introduce and talk about your cat(s). I also have a kitty and I'm always here for some good cat content.
Alexa thanks for the discussion on Sci-fi and the chicken-egg loop in publishing in it; I love sci fi and write it (kindof) somewhat, so glad to know. Also Kudos on writing sci-fi!! :D Also the green shirt is fun :D FOR SCI FI. It shouldn't matter but for some reason it clicked something in my brain? :')
loved this video! I grew up watching and loving Star Trek with my dad which is what sparked my interest in sci fi YA novels as they started to come out (THG, Chaos Walking, Dune, Ender's Game, The Maze Runner) largely as they came out in the late 2000's and early 2010's. Sad that these mega hits have sort of reached their peak.
Hi Alexa... just love all your videos. They're very reassuring to watch in a way. Partly informative, and partly reassuring :)
I like some sci-fi but most of what I pick up is adult. The one that comes out to me is Timekeeper? (Time stuff is sci-fi, right? Though timekeeper could also be steampunk or fantsay).
Would anyone recommend The Disasters? It's been on my radar for a while but I worry it'll be too action heavy.
This is such a needed discussion in the community! I have three things I want to mention and talk about. (I realize this sounds super demanding, like you are required to drop everything and answer me. I just meant three things I want to talk about in general with anyone in the comments, no expectations at all).
1) Is anyone excited for the new Hunger Games? I know she falls under the "famous authors get to write what they want" category, but I'm still super pumped for this book. I've always liked dystopians, and the Hunger Games Saga has a huge fandom behind it. I'm really hoping it brings back a surge of sci-fi. I'm especially interested to see how this book lands, because we already know that it's going to break some of the tropes that got tired in the Dystopian craze: teen takes on the corrupt government and eventually succeeds. We know the Capitol was strong and thriving and isn't taken down until Katniss, so I expect this book to have a bit of a darker tone, as we know whoever the MC is, even if they win the hunger games (which in itself isn't guaranteed) they haven't really won the real battle.
2) I wonder if part of Sci-fi's problem is just that it needs to diversify into different genre titles. As Alexa mentioned, Dystopians are often not even considered Sci-Fi, it' such a big blanket for books that really aren't similar. Fantasy on the other hand doesn't seem to require as much distinction and what little distinction it needs, it gets. We have Urban Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, even Paranormal has grown out of the shadow of Fantasy to thrive as it's own genre in a way it never had before Twilight. Sci-Fi though is still just messy. You have books like "Illuminae" sitting with "Brightly Burning", "Hunger Games", "The 5th Wave" and "Zenith". Each of these are COMPLETELY different books, where as anything under Epic Fantasy generally fits well with its constitutes. You could write a book about Aliens first Contact on modern day earth through a teen trapped in their school during the chaos and that would be YA Sci-Fi. At the same time, it's wholly different than a book about teen cadets in a space acemdy in the year 2078 fighting an alien war. Both have teens, aliens and Sci-Fi, but they have different audiences. We don't really have a way to categorize these to be found by their readers. I love sci-fi but hate space military stories, but often feel like I'm slogging through to find the "gems" I want. Not so in fantasy, easier to navigate and find the parallels.
3) Anyone have any thoughts on what makes a sci-fi adult, other than characters age? What tricks could one use to turn their YA Sci-Fi into an adult for a better chance in the market?
I think across all genres, what makes a book an adult book instead of YA are a few things: age of characters as mentioned, more mature content (sex, drugs, violence, etc. often depicted directly rather than just mentioned or fade-to-black style), more adult themes such as child rearing or career concerns, pacing (often YA is written to clip right along, while adult fiction seems to leave more room for slower pacing), and writing style (YA fiction tends not to be very purple or verbose). These are just generalizations, of course--there will definitely be exceptions to these. And then there's crossover books, which could feasibly work for either age group, and the publisher will decide which one to market towards.
This was a really interesting video, especially as someone querying a scifi book right now. It makes me wonder what is the right way to market scifi? I would also be really interested in a video about scifi tropes.
My personal thinking is that we need to break down Sci-Fi more into sub-genres. It's so large and encompassing that it's generally hard to navigate to find your tastes, where as contemporary, Thriller and Fantasy are a lot more similar to the other novels in their genres.
Could there be issues with the accessibility/understanding of futurisic/speculative science?
Dystopian might be more accessible because it deals more with social engineering than technical stuff.
Would you consider some speculative fiction sci-fi? I know I've made a fantasy connection, but maybe it's more accurate to include it in sci-fi as one of its many subgenres.
Does YA publishers automatically count all stories that happen in space, or have space travel in it as sci fi? Because there definitely can be fantasy in space that is not Sci Fi. But as far as the market, where does that put those kind of books?
I'm writing a sci-fi book with a protagonist that I originally envisioned as in her mid-20s. I workshopped it in some writing classes and multiple classmates and professors INSISTED that the MC sounded "too young" and that "she should be 16," so I changed her age and made the book YA. Now I'm kicking myself and thinking of overhauling everything again and making it adult sci-fi instead. Or maybe I'll just abandon it altogether and focus on the new YA ghost story I've just started writing (though I don't know how well YA horror sells, either). I just wish I had any desire to write contemp or fantasy!
Ok what should I do with my paranormal romance book and fantasy science fiction drop them thire no well in market place
Alexa, would you please make a video expounding on the subsets of sci-fi?
I know I'm not Alexa but I write dystopian/sci-fi so maybe I could help out?
The general subsets of sci-fi are:
Traditional sci-fi:
This is the old kind of sci-fi where sci-fi was made more to question the ethics and legality of certain things rather than entertain someone. That or it was just straight-up educational and all about the science, hence why the genre became called "science-fiction".
Hard-core sci-fi:
These are the books that are in a TOTALLY different world. They're intergalactic or on a different planet entirely, and it's like high-fantasy, where there are made-up races and empires and such, but unlike fantasy, they are all based on sci-fi. This is more along the lines of Star Wars (even though Star Wars does have elements of fantasy.)
Soft/Light sci-fi:
Sci-fi that exists in OUR world. So like robots/androids, cyberpunk, etc. These things have a very sci-fi-y feeling to them, but they're ultimately still based on modern politics, countries, and principles. (A good videogame that did this really well recently is called Detriot: Become Human).
Grounded sci-fi:
Overlaps a lot with soft sci-fi, but it basically means sci-fi that happens on a planet and not in outerspace.
Thematic sci-fi:
These are all subcategories in and of themselves, but here you get lazer-punk (ray guns and martians), steampunk, diesel punk, atomic punk, etc. Furthermore, these categories don't necessarily apply just to sci-fi. They can apply to everything.
Dystopian:
One of the most popular subcateogries of sci-fi that is based on a corrupt or broken society, and it has a lot to do with post-apocalpyse sci-fi and soft sci-fi.
Post Apocalypse:
Pretty self-explanatory, has to do with being after the apocalypse and usually has some sort of survival aspect to it. Think The Last Of Us or The Walking Dead.
Monster sci-fi:
This is where you get zombies, aliens, mutated creatures, etc. They also have a sense of survival to them, much like post-apocalyptic, but they're usually in environments that are designed to support the monster. (Like, you probably wouldn't see Alien from the Alien Series wandering around in a graveyard.)
Then, of course, you have trope-based sci-fi, such as time travel, eternal life, and so on and so forth.
That pretty much covers the majority of sci-fi, but a you can see, there's a lot of overlap between a lot of the subgenres AND other genres. A lot of horror, fantasy, and contemporary novels have sci-fi elements to them, and likewise, a lot of sci-fi novels have a lot of horror, fantasy, and contemporary elements to them. So yep. The end. Hope this helped!
Do you think Tor creating a new YA imprint is going to help in showing the YA industry at large of how to build a more sustainable sci fi readership? Granted they're a lot smaller than the other YA publishers, but there's a very distinctive Tor audience that actively seek out their books.
Eh maybe maybe not. Tor Teen has been buying and publishing a LOT of books that are not sci-fi. Like, a lot. Some of their biggest titles are YA contemporary, like Anger is a Gift. So Tor Teen is not just for sci-fi and fantasy, so I'm not sure how much impact they'll really have on YA sci-fi b/c they're not pushing those books either. One of their editors, in fact, is one of the ones who is now an agent, instead. So one less editor at Tor who is acquiring YA sci-fi.
Where did you get your t-shirt?? I love it!!
So many YA Science Fiction favorites, older science fiction being A Wrinkle in Time, Alien Secrets by Annette Curtis Klause, Academy 7 by Anne Osterlund, Violet Eyes by Nicole Luiken, Heir Apparent by Vivian Vande Velde (the whole series is good), Winter of Fire by Sherryl Jordan, Tin Star by Cecil Castellucci, Defy the Stars by Claudia Gray, These Broken Stars, Alienated and Starflight by Melissa Landers, low YA or older Middle Grade Mars Evacuees by Sophia McDougall, Jane Yolen's Dragon's Blood, So You Want to Be a Wizard (meshing of genres), Lost Stars (Star Wars IP), A Thousand Pieces of You by Claudia Gray, In a World Just Right by Jen Brooks, All Our Yesterdays, and more that I can't think of off the top of my head. I love science fiction and would love to have more of it in YA.
So what I’m hearing is that you should become a sci-fi editor? I have so many sci-fi ideas I want to write but I know the market so I’m keeping them on the back burner, though I’m nervous to get an agent who won’t want to rep that if I’m signed on doing something else.
Gosh I'd love to be an editor. (though I think personality wise I'm better suited to agenting!) It can be tricky... I would try to query agents who at least are vaguely open to sci-fi, if you can? You could ask on the offer call too. The other backdoor way sometimes is to sell a book/series to one editor and if that relationship is super solid, sell something new to them directly... and see if they'll take a sci-fi b/c they like you. Also in a worst case, you could get a second agent (or entirely new one) for sci-fi.
When I was YA age, I read adult scifi. There was only movies and tv to introduce me to the genre. I think it has more to do with the over arching subject matter. Ya is more about interpersonal relationships, where as many scifi is often abut sociological and war themes.
honestly as someone who is writing a very grounded sci-fi story, the thing about women in sci fi really saddened me. I think its really helped me reflect how i want to continue writing my story now understanding the context of the experiences of women in the genre and how at times the conceptions people carry can make female readers feel isolated.
6:30 That's more do to the fact that sci-fi for the longest time had the stigma of being a nerdy thing back when it wasn't cool and trendy to call yourself a nerd or geek.
A bit late, but I LOVED LOVED LOVED William Sleator's The Boy Who Reversed Himself, Interstellar Pig, and Singularity
That's so true, I am so sick of these descriptions like "pride and prejudice in space" or "the new les miserable of the next generation" etc. Why do they have to make the descriptions, just write in the blurb what the book is about and I am good.
[OFF TOPIC] What about personalities?
Do people need to have a certain personality to write a book?
What if I'm too technical, or too emotional...
Is there a right personality that you have to have in order to write good books?
I'd love to see you talk about it.
I loved science fiction as a kid (still do). I devoured the Star Wars Young Jedi Knights middle grade novels, and was constantly looking for more science fiction, but it wasn't really available for kids at the time unless it was officially licensed Star Wars books, which I was mostly fine with because I loved Star Wars (still do). But it would have been great to have more MG and YA sci-fi to read, but it just wasn't there. I ended up reading some adult sci-fi probably way too young This is what lead me to reading Heir to the Empire when I was 10.
I didn’t expect to hear this perspective, great information.
Sometimes when you stop midway in a sentence to start digging into the exceptions and edge cases of what you're talking about I imagine you in front of a Charlie Day-style conspiracy board trying to keep track of all this. Actually if you have a conspiracy board your audience would probably be up for seeing it (great video!).
I think this is one of my favorite videos. I appreciate the break down and insight on scifi and YA.
The whispery noise in the background around minute 11 actually made me think you were intentionally creating a creepy vibe to drive your point 😂 I kind of wish you had kept going with it.
I dont know if the readership for YA is drying up necessarily. My problem is that buying a new book is a big deal for me. Its 20 dollars. If i purchase a brand new book its a special occasion type of thing I can only afford to do a few times a year. They have just gotten ridiculously expensive. I've seen 25, 30 dollar brand new YA books. And they don't release paperbacks until months after the new book is released in order to make you buy the hardbacks. I am the type of reader who will almost always wait the 6 months to a year that it takes for the paper back because the money grab is obvious to me.
6:43
That's why Dark Angel was such a missed opportunity. That could have been a TV show that changed things. But it was cut short too soon. That was Sci Fi with a female lead protagonist [Jessica Alba] who killed it. A show ahead of its time. [2000ish]
Loved that show
Timothy Zahn's Dragonback series is one of my favorite from him, and that's YA Sci-fi! It's probably a really good 'gateway' sci-fi tbh, it doesn't get into much 'space stuff' although it isn't exactly LIGHT (It has a dragon!! ...who has to explain how he is sometimes 2-dimensional...PHYSICS!) and of course Zahn's plots never disappoint.
Vivian Vande Velde wrote a book called 'Heir Apparent' that is a kind of fantasy by way of contemporary served on a light sci-fi platter. LOADS of fun, brings in the 'gamer' aspect too. Always surprised this book isn't more famous.
Kathryn Lasky's novel Star Split was my first introduction to several scientific concepts (genetics!) and I found it FASCINATING, though I was raised up on sci-fi so I don't know how generally accessible it is.
Keeper of the Isis Light by Monica Hughes is Island of the Blue Dolphins but on an alien planet. A+.
Garth Nix's Seventh Tower series is as much sci-fi as it is fantasy with some slightly horror-y tropes.
Eric Flint and Ryk Spoor's Boundary series is mostly adult sci-fi in the original trilogy, but the later books definitely read as though they could have been YA (and they can stand alone, too). Castaway Planet in particular is Swiss Family Robinson on a fascinating alien planet, only the kids are all bi-racial girls, except for the kid who is an alien that looks kinda like a giant manta ray [he is their brother and they love him very much].
AND of course The Jedi Apprentice and Young Jedi Knights series. ^^
Is Bonds of Brass the book you were surprised sold?
Nope. That's an adult book. I'm friends with the author.
Curious what some of your favorite and least favorite sci-fi tropes are? Also, could you go a little more into light and heavy sci-fi? I'm writing a YA sci-fi haha but I feel like it is more grounded/accessible from what you've said here. Great video! Alexa from the future was fitting 😝
What I get from our local members are they want clean fiction, no sex, no romance, maybe a little hand holding. "save me I'm in a highly religious community). What I would personally like to see is more minorities in sci-fi, but not where being a minority is the big selling point. Give me adventure, not 30 pages on the science behind the new tech you made up. Have your world(s) make sense. DO NOT COLLAB WITH JAMES PATTERSON!
@@nataliemartinez7957 haha thanks for your response! Welp, already got romance and sex soo... lol But my story does have to do with pregnancy, as well, so it's somewhat needed. I'm just going to write my story as it is and go from there. Still working on my first draft. Maybe Sc-fi isn't technically my genre and it's more speculative fiction? Ohh who knows haha sometimes genres can feel a little like boxes to force yourself into.
@@rachelthome165 I feel that it can be difficult to say what is sci-fi and what isn't. Some people combine it with fantasy. And some people are just throwing everything in there. Like I never think paranormal is sci-fi. But good luck! Just writing a book length story is an achievement! ANd if you have to you can sit on the story until a new sci-fi books is released and gets famous. Good luck!
@@nataliemartinez7957 I agree! Haha thank you - wouldn't that be nice :P
This is so true
After reading Illuminae, first time reading sci-fi romance, I couldn't find anything like it. And it's very sad how publishers over look this genre. I'm writing now, only because I can't find anything like it and it's the closest I can come to reading 😂
I adore the Dragon and Thief series by Timothy Zahn. One of the first books series would I buy on the same day they hit shelves as an early teen.
does Brandon Sanderson count as famous? He's publishing YA science fiction and it's doing great... admittedly at this point he can kind of do whatever he wants, but do you think this might help the genre get started again?
Yes, Sanderson can write whatever he wants because of his great success.
Can I make my protagonist 18 if I can't decide if it should be adult SciFi or YA SciFi?
My own SciFi project has many YA tropes I just can't get rid of, such as the coming of age trope. Plus, despite essentially being a space opera, I think it is very accessible to people not familiar with SciFi. So, I don't think I can do so much setup for what is essentially YA and then not write YA. However, if no-one buys it, not even the best writing can save it.
I'm definitely interested in how to mask a YA book as adult fiction.
Good that I have a fantasy YA project planned.
Honestly, not really...at least far as I'm aware. If your protagonist is 18, it'll be shoved into YA and YA publishers will be put off your story for them perceiving it not selling well. A better bet would be to make your protagonist 19 or 20, being college age. That way your protagonist is technically an adult, but barely and can still have a coming of age story. Trust me. I'm in my mid 20s and still don't how to adult. xP (Did the same for one of my WIPs and I think it's turning out well.)
@@sorcerersapprentice Yeah, I'm probably gonna go with 19 or 20. I wonder if I can get away with first person perspective though or if it's gonna be seen as a YA red flag.
@@SaurierSlash You should be able to. I've seen adult stories with first person narration. If not, you can always change it to 3rd person limited if your editor makes a comment about that.
Gah! You’re about to hit 50k!!! How exciting!
I expect, like you, my friend's wife must have gotten her YA sci-fi book deal at the tail end of the trend then. She got a deal for a trilogy, and book 3 comes out next summer. I suppose I'm biased, but I enjoyed books 1 and 2.
Her name is Caryn Lix, and the first book in the series is "Sanctuary." It's been described as "Alien" meets "X-Men," which is a description I found fitting.
I should really make an effort to read more sci-fi! Picking up/putting on hold This Mortal Coil by Emily Suvada and Ignite the Stars by Maura Milan now!
Oh, and of course, War Girls by Tochi Onyebuchi! That just came out.