Lead title vs. bottom tier | Tiers of Marketing in Publishing
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- Опубліковано 7 лис 2019
- How does marketing really work in traditional publishing? What is top tier marketing vs. bottom tier marketing? What are lead titles? Is it true some authors get no marketing at all?
I'm covering it all, from the very basics of marketing--what you can expect to get from ANY traditional publisher at a bare minimum--as well as what the top, middle, and bottom tiers of books get.
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Tears of Marketing
Oh good, I wasn't the only one that kept on hearing that instead of tiers :D
When Alexa uses phrases like "your publisher" and "your book" I feel so inspired.
Same!
I'd rather have someone telling us what's really going on in the industry so that we can make better, more informed decisions than feed us bullshit that keeps us unprepared for reality. I love your real talks, so thank you for taking the time to lay it out like that. ♥️
I can not agree more, the truth hurts. Even though Alexa apologizes for delivering it, which IMHO she really shouldn't have to. She doesn't want to hurt us with it, is what I take away. Alexa is such a cool helpful person. I don't stan, I just admire and learn.
It turns out Really Depressing Real Talk About Publishing is kinda my jam at 3 am while im putting in my hair curlers :3
My agent set me up to go to my first book fair-London Book Fair-last year. Had publisher meetings arranged. I get to London. Covid happened. I was literally staring out my hotel window at the convention center, hearing on the news that the US was closing its border to air travel from Europe, and got an email that the fair was not happening. Had to take an early flight out to avoid being quarantined in Europe.
Setbacks IRL enrich your own story, but keep going man 💪
I must be one of those weird followers because I honestly love it when one of your videos is longer. I retain more of the information presented because it feels like you are covering the info more thoroughly.
smegal6 I Love them too
I like letting long videos play while I play video games or draw, so longer is better for me too.
I like long videos too!
Much hope and little expectation...got it.
I appreciate you introducing the harsh realities of publishing. As a writer working on my debut for querying, I am so relieved you are here to give this advice to aspiring authors, and you will forever be my go-to for the ins and outs of publishing and writing. I would love to see a video on what marketing to do when you land in the bottom tier, as I like to prepare for the worst. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, Alexa. I always look forward to your new videos!
"get some tea, coffee, hot chocolate...regular chocolate...booze..." this made me lol. I don't love depressing talk, but i do appreciate the real talk, so thank you. i'm not at a point yet where i need to worry about this, but i like to be prepared.
this is interesting even to just a reader
Agreed! I enjoy learning about that side of the book industry
Could you do a video on how publishers determine whether an authors book with be bottom, mid or top tier? It would be very interesting as to how they decide where someones book is and how much they'll spend on it.
She already explains it depends on the market mostly. A publisher is there to sell your writing, so they will adjust their strategy to optimize their profit. She even gives a suggestion as to how to influence the publisher; by being pro-active in marketing yourself and your book. This is where the advice to talk about your book (or other art) until you are blue in the face comes into play. The market is an unpredictable mistress. Exactly there is where the chances for indie publishing lie, these days we can opt to create our own brand, we are not only dependant on what the establishment approves on.
@@dinaatjuh thanks for that, I think I must have missed that part of the video (my fault entirely, I was writing while I watched it). I'll have to save the video and rewatch it a few times to get this drilled into me 👍
@@joelbailey176 This is all of her advice (from other videos too) in my own words and understanding. I have almost no experience writing myself, let alone publishing, I'm just the curious type that watches a lot of author-tube. However, like Alexa marketing comes naturally to me. I understand how nebulous the market is and really I could never do as good of a job as Alexa explaining it. She is very, very knowledgeable.
@@dinaatjuh well, you did a good job here, so thank you, I'm new to Alexa's channel but I already love her videos so much! And as someone who wants to publish a book soon, her advice is invaluable
If the publisher is afraid it will lose your agent, you get a lead-title deal. But most agents aren't high-power people that publishers are afraid of, and therefore can't snap together that kind of deal.
Please do an up to date video on how to market a book. Thank you for this video it has solidified my decision on self-publishing. Your videos are amazing :)
I love your long videos. Thank you for all the information. I wouldn't know this without your channel.
Please, people, don't reply to me saying "read this book, read that blog." I'm blind. It's a lot more accessible through Alexa's videos. My eyes don't have to hurt and I'm learning a lot from someone who's in that game already.
Thank you so much! It's so good to hear. I know a lot of people HATE my super long videos (I get comments), but I also know that this is the best/only way for many people to digest this information. The whole reason I stopped blogging and switched to this--something about audio/visual learning just WORKS for so many people!
The last time I remember a big splashy cover reveal happening it was when City of Heavenly Fire's cover was revealed on TV lol love these videos, Alexa. I drop everything when I get my notification that a new one's been posted!
As someone who used to work to get authors to my country for book signings, this is so true. But also, if the marketing team from a different country likes your book, they sometimes foot the bill just to get the author even if he isn't that popular yet. We've gotten authors who aren't lead books but the manager loved. It depends.
Blimey, that's several shedloads of info I knew nothing about. Thank you so much for presenting doom so entertainingly! Presumbly on the bottom tier the publishers would be taking a hefty percentage regardless - I'd be marketing like crazy and they'd get the income. I'm not a control freak, but this does feel like a ride with a drunk driver...
You missed the opportunity to make a Tears of Marketing pun. ;)
But I don't think it's depressing to know that most authors get mid-tier marketing. That's encouraging, actually. If you were going the self-publishing route, you'd have to do all the marketing yourself anyway, paying for it *before* you saw any money from the book, which is not the case with traditional publishing. As long as you set aside the money you need for potential promotion, it seems like it's not a terrible situation.
I would much rather have the information ahead of time to be prepared to pay for my own marketing, so I am really grateful for your real talk videos.
I thought she actually said that XD (I'm not familiar with the word tier, as English isn't my mother tounge.)
I refuse to feel I am the problem because I prefer the longer deep dive (over 25 min) videos. Because sometimes a video should be longer than a Pomodoro work interval. Especially when the information included demands as much enumeration.
Sending the most Creative of wishes:
May your creative reservoir be in the perpetual path of the deluge!
After several writing conferences where I specifically looked for panels on traditional versus self-publishing, I've never heard some of this information about what traditional publishers do. And yet, it's SO IMPORTANT when it comes to the decision of whether to go with traditional or self-publishing. I was leaning toward traditional, and these insights about the B2B side of marketing, ARCs, and behind-the-scenes stuff like submitting to contests and book boxes make so much sense. It's really helped me solidify my decision. Thanks for telling the whole story of something I don't usually hear about! I know there was some bad news in this video, but I found it very helpful :)
Similar for me.
Thank you so much for all your videos! I've been binging (or as much as I can with the long discussions) and I really appreciate your thoughts and research.
I love your videos, and this one too! I always appreciate the honesty and transparency with which you give us your insights and advice. Thank you!
I really love these long videos! I learned so much.
I finally found your book in my bookstore!! I love it!
I have learned so much about publishing from you. Thank you so much for all your videos. I feel so much better-equipped for when my debut novel's time finally comes!
I always assumed ARCs and tours etc were in the publishing contract. How many review copies will be sent out seems like a really easy one to be negotiated on too. Learn so much about the industry from this channel.
Wow this was super informative. Thank you so much!
I always loved how informative, realistic, and practical your videos are, they are so intuitive and actually helpful in figuring out how to tread throughout these vaguer aspects of writing. I'm really looking forward to an updated video on marketing/social or fan engagement and what steps we can take to improve that with what abilities we have. Thanks so much!
Thanks for the real talk, Alexa! You make me smile! I honestly would love it if you wanted to do another marketing ideas video! I’ve really enjoyed your other ones, but I would love to hear if you’ve had any new thoughts, what ideas you’ve found work best for you, or anywhere you can lend your expertise! You make marketing seem like fun, which is quite impressive! 💜
I didn't even know publishers did that much, so I'm not that disappointed
I appreciate your honest and informative overview ❤ It’s one of many reasons I want to be traditionally published despite It’s flaws.
Loved this video, thank you!
These harsh truths and dream-crushing videos actually mean the world to me. I am working on my debut and everything in the publishing world is still vague and almost etherial because *what even is publishing* but through these videos, we get an idea of the worst-case scenario and can prepare for it. So when we get a mediocre or even best case, it's all rainbows and unicorns of happiness, and when we don't get so lucky; we have a back-up ready.
Your videos are amazing and honestly get me excited to start querying. Thank you so much for all your time and trouble!
I’m okay, Thanks for asking 😊👋. And Thanks for making this video Alexa! It’s awesome knowledge to get!! 😃😆
Honestly I just wanna be published. My bar is hella low X-x
This was very useful information, thank you so much. I have much less anxiety going into a situation if I know what to expect. With this information, I can plan for the worst and hope for the best. ^.^
Thank you so much for the great video! 👏
I don't know if I'll ever get published, but I really appreciate your videos. They inspire me as a writer in general, especially when going through rough times.
At least she is honest! Not blowing smoke up our asses......makes her a rock star!!
Thank you for the honest discussion about this! I feel like it really helps to know the reality of how things work or could work before getting too far and expecting too much. Don't worry, you didn't crush my dreams! I'm just more aware of reality now 😂
This is cool. I'm writing a fanfic about a writer/novelist so this is great research knowledge.
Could you do a video about how to market a book?
This was so illuminating! I had NO IDEA that publishers played a part in which books book boxes decide to go with. Now that you've said it, I'm like, DUH, but for some reason I just assumed that the book box people just...picked whatever random book they liked. I didn't even consider the fact that of course they have to work with the publisher to do it all, and that the publishers will be influencing their choices.
Your eyeshadow is popping today
I know you think that this video is super depressing at the end but I actually felt very energized after watching. Because every time I've heard about publishers buying and burying books it has always sounded like an author is completely powerless to do anything about it, but they're not. You can forge your own path if you have to and you can take control of your situation if no one is taking care of things for you. And yeah it sucks when you have to do things for yourself when others don't have to, but it sure beats being in a crap situation and not being able to change it at all. So come on people! Who else wants to go flip some tables and forge meaningful business connections!?
Thanks for such an interesting video! I don't think I'd want to be top-top tier unless I was already established as an author. It sounds like a lot of pressure. Mid-tier sounds about my speed.
What's a pre-order campaign? I would appreciate a video listing self-promotion strategies.
Thanks Alexa. Great video. I now have a better understanding where I stand with Tor. Box of 20 ARCs, nice The Bard's Blade post cards, a dedicated publicist, was flown to SIBA (Southern Independent Booksellers Alliance), ads in Shelf Awareness, a pretty long list of who received ARCs, and periodic updates as to what they're doing.
Not top....but not bottom.
That sounds pretty good for someone who's starting out, I've actually seen some good early reviews from fantasy reviewers I follow. Congrats and good luck :)
@@drlc6051 Thanks. I've actually been at it a while. I've had a successful indie career for the past nine years. This is a transition I was needing to make though. Keeping up with the indie pace was getting to be more than I can handle.
Have you done a video about alpha and beta readers and maybe the proper etiquette of how to approach it? I would love someone to read my rough draft so that when I begin the editing process I have an inkling of what I'm facing. lol
Still not sure if I'm going to self publish or not. I'm not even sure if I'm going to get it printed, but a huge appeal for me is being able to send ARCs to UA-camrs
Deeply appreciate your videos! I have a question: do publishing houses pay for inclusion in things like Oprah's Book Club or Reese's Book Club? Do either ladies actually choose their books or do the publishers work out a deal of some kind?
I don't think it's depressing to hear how it can be different to publish depending on the tier you're on. It's actually very good to be informed and to know what to expect and have a way to gauge if I'm getting into a bad deal or not. I think for any kind of creative venture like this it's good to go in having a contingency plan in case things don't go the way you planned and putting your foot on the door and actually publishing a book is a huge thing, regardless of your marketing tier.
Hi Alexa. It's interesting to watch your videos from my own special perspective, since I did traditional publishing, one book so far, in a whole different setting, a different language, in a non-Western, non-English speaking country. When it comes to making money, it's very different. We have no agents as far as I know. We submit directly to publishers. We have no advances whatsoever as far as I know, we only get royalty and sometimes pay for printing costs. When it comes to market trends consumer preferences, it's very, VERY different. But the marketing tiers outlined in this video seemed a bit similar. The majority of marking efforts and money (and by majority I mean 90%) is reserved for well established famous authors. Despite the industries being very different in the US and other Western English speaking countries vs. here, the thing that we have in common is that new authors are always miserable and never satisfied with amount of attention/recognition the publishers would give them.
Kim Chance did a video after Keeper came out about what she did with the marketing of her book and how much she spent. I would have liked to see what she did for Seeker, but I know she got burnt out and decided to take a break from author/booktube.
Personally b-b marketing works better on me as a consumer. What I mean is that when I walk into a bookstore or library I gravitate to what's front and center and what has like "best seller" next to it. I tend to ignore straight to consumer marketing bc sometimes it gets really annoying to see the same thing over and over
What if you have a really busy schedule and can't attend some of these book festivals or events?
Do you get to know whereabouts you will fall before you sign with a publisher? Sorry if you got this question already.
My comfort item is a very confused dog that would like to burrow back into her den of blankies... Not yet, baby, Mama needs you.
So, what are the percentages of people in these tiers, can I ask? If we were to look at a distribution?
Lmao when you said to get your "comfort item" I was literally about to go get a cigarette
What are book boxes?
The bottom tier sounds depressing but I have so many questions! What causes a publisher to drop a writer down to that tier? Why would a publisher pick a writer up if they don't actually believe in that book or think it would sell? That seems kind of counter-intuitive from a business standpoint. Its like stocking stuff in your store that you know won't sell--a waste of space, right? Could an author in this situation potentially say: "Fine--I'll take my stuff elsewhere." Is this a sign that they'll be dropped by their publisher? Or that they won't ever sell through the publisher again--because I know some writers sign contracts that give the publisher's the first look at their next project.
But great video! And very informative and very different from your other marketing vid. I liked it! And I would love to hear more about marketing yourself if there are new ways. It would probably really help a lot of people wanting to self publish too.
Most often it's a disconnect between the editor and the sales/marketing/publicity teams. Your editor always loves your book because they bought it. But they can't always get the other teams on board to the same level of enthusiasm. Or, as I mentioned in the video, the market can shift and it no longer makes sense to put extra dollars behind a book. Early buzz can be lukewarm or bad (from librarians, booksellers, etc.) and so again it doesn't make sense to have the investment. In fact, sales orders from libraries and bookstores definitely have an impact on marketing: those sales channels tell a publisher whether a title has buzz/excitement/big sales potential.
Books often fall to the bottom tier because of internal politics, or because someone in the chain decides that he doesn't like the author after the deal is offered. I know someone whose editor wanted her to put vampires in her book, and she refused, and because she completed the book, they couldn't kill the contract, but they tanked her book.
If you think your book is bottom tier, try to get out of the contract. If you can get the rights back and pay back the advance, that's probably the best avenue. You may get blacklisted in TP, but you can self-publish it.
@@michaelchurch1324Only the shittiest publishers will punish an author for not implementing an editorial suggestion, they're outliers.
And oh wow, you say there can sometimes be petty people in publishing just like every single other industry on the planet??? Shocking.
Alexa answered the person's question with her first hand knowledge. Coming behind her with contradictory, misleading, and overall incorrect information is not a good look. And your suggestion that someone should just ruin their reputation in trad because they can always self is LAUGHABLY bad advice.
Idk if this is too late, but if it turn out my book is bottom tier is there a way for me to buy back the rights of my book to self publish eventually? Even if I have to wait until after tits been traditionally published for a while? Because you said they shouldn't own it forever.
I think writers should also have the mindset of an entrepreneur. Because that's what we are. Writers are self-employed people, like entrepreneurs, who need to promote our book ourselves, especially if we are not happy with our sales numbers, regardless of how much or how little our publishers does for us. This is why some self-published authors earn a decent income. They have no choice. They have to market their books themselves. As most of us writers self-studied our way into writing a novel, we can also self-study ourt way into books marketing or social media marketing to promote our book and our name out there.
Is it more common for people with lower advances to get bottom tier marketing? Or have you seen people with say upper 5 figures get bottom tier too?
I'm guessing 6 figure advances get at least mid-tier because they need to recover some of the money they spent.
My friend got involved with a very small publisher, that has since gone out of business, and never got a proofreader for the book and they marketed his book as a romance, but it didn't have a Happily Ever After and then they did nothing else. My friend had to do everything else. It was horrible for him.
The rights reverted back to him when the publisher went under and he's thinking of relaunching under his own press her's already had it copyedited and proofread.
I have a question. When you refer to "indie publishing" is that the same thing as self publishing? Because then there's also traditional publishing but with an indie publishing group, so I get confused.
Great video by the way, thanks for the insight!
Usually I try to say self-publishing or traditional publishing, but indie has become the preferred term among self-publishers so typically when I say it, I mean self-publishing. To adjust, I'll typically say "small publishers" for traditional publishers that are, well, smaller.
@@AlexaDonne Got it! Thanks for the clarification
Hey Alexa, how do you know what type of publisher to submit your book too? I'm someone who struggles with this all the time since I've never been published.
MusicBrokenheartTears you don’t submit to publishers. Your agent does. She you need an agent. She has videos on this
Why is this not spelled out in your contract that was hopefully negotiated with your personal lawyer and not just an agent that works for the agency? (the agency that they're obviously going to be more loyal to) Then if they're not meeting their contractual obligations you sue them for breach of contract.
Also that "invisible marketing" shouldn't be invisible. It should be spelled out in your contract. Such as you will go to/be invited to "X" trade shows. They will get you "X" amount of page space for ads in "X" amount of publications or television appearances (even if it's just a little local show if you're a small fry), etc. Your book will be presented to "X" amount of booksellers and/or your book will be in "X" stores for sale or "X%" of the stores presented to. You'll be granted "X" ARCs and/or allowed "X" for a book trailer(online or TV spot depending on your budget) And you should also be reaching out to local booksellers/news(human interest story)/local TV shows/doing your own book trailer on the various social media, putting in ads in local papers as well as buying ad space in things like school programs (depending on your book's content) or local community/college theatre program ads. Obviously, an author that is bottom tier will get much less because they're a business, and businesses want to make money. They're only going to sink a lot of money into someone that they know they're going to make big 💰 on.
There's so much pain in your voice when you talk about bottom tier level! 😂
But it gives me so much inspiration to make that climb!
I'm not depressed by this info. Publishing is like an ocean with whales ( established authors ), potential big fish and... krill. Sometimes you need to start at the bottom before you get to the surface. Just go and write a great book and take it from there.
Tears of marketing...
Do you happen to know someone who publishes books in a language that isn't their native language?
E.g. I live in Germany but I hate writing in German. I only ever write in English and I do want to give traditional publishing a shot but from what I've heard, it's best to self publish those books and not bother with agents etc
But maybe people you know have a completely different view on things like that. Idk, I just feel a bit lost. It isn't urgent either way since I hate a lot of editing to do before I can publish my book
But it would be good to know what options someone like me has :)
I'm german too and my english is on a level where I could be writing a novel in english BUT if I write something I want it to be close to perfect and by writing in your native tounge it will always have sort of the best outcome because you have this sense as to if it's truly written well or not. But that's just my opinion.
@@daddylingo9295 I get that but I personally can't really write in German. I mean I can but I feel like it's a million times worse somehow. Idk in a way I also feel pretentious when writing in German. Not sure how else to describe it but maybe you know what I mean
Disney: After what they did to Alan Dean Foster--- never. ever. never ever.
booktube: 26k channels...?? Are you talking about something besides #booktube on YT?
😂
There are two tiers in traditional publishing: lead titles and VIT (vanity-in-trade). If you're a VIT, you're basically a call option to the publisher.
Unless you're a lead title, you're giving away royalties and rights for an advance and that's it. Meanwhile, the rights are locked up, in case you have a later success that lifts your backlist.
"Happy writing... happy writing... happy writing..."
Unless you're writing dystopia, or sick lit. If you're trying to hit it big with either of these, you're either seriously fucked up, or you think humanity is inordinately perverse; I'm not sure if those are separate issues.
If anyone wants to make a living of 6+ figures a year, it’s not that hard in indie publishing but seems a unicorn thing in trad. Yeah, look into that people. I’m so glad I did that 5 years ago. Publishers don’t care about you and deserve to get paid.
'It's not that hard in indie publishing' lol sure