Let’s be honest with ourselves here: this is a 1.5l engine designed for economy. Anyone attempting to make anything more than stock horsepower out of this tiny engine is clearly suffering from a recent stroke.
So people who try to make power out of a b16 are stupid? 😂😂😂 do you think any of the Honda b series motors are going to handle 300 foot pounds of torque stock for a long period of time ?
The engineer made a killer job on that one. They were asked to do the best mpg 200hp torquey engine that will use the minimum material possible. They really blew it out of the park.. they never had the tuning scene in mind.
@@Mystified now the accord sport is hybrid and automatic only.. don't need more to understand that the passion is gone and that they are after efficiency.
@@jhall_79 sorry to break your Honda Dreams or you should I say Earthdream.. but they will never go back to the enthousiast crowd like Toyota is doing now.. unless you like EV Sport lame car
@@JasPlun It's an L15 Honda Fit engine with a turbo on it. I don't understand why any reasonable person would think it's a "for like" replacement for the K24 in a 9th-gen Si, ILX, TSX or TLX?! What the L15 engine is and isn't is not a secret. It would be like a VW person trying to tune the 1.4L EA211 instead of buying a car with the EA888 in it (be it 1.8L or 2.0L EA888). By all means you can tune EA211 engines, especially the twincharger ones in the Polo GTI, but expecting them to hold the same power as a EA888 or EA113? Obviously that's just not going to happen.
@@TassieLorenzoHere’s where your argument falls off. No one expected to the K series engines to be as tough as they are. They also started in econoboxes until people started experimenting with them. That’s how these engines got the aftermarket to begin with. Experimenting. The fact that a D series crank is much beefier shouldn’t excuse Honda from making a flimsy crank for the L15. VW overbuilt the 2.slow to high hell with forged internals and all. Obviously, going this route ensures engine reliability at all speeds.
@@Iridiumcosmos Good points! The Integra and Civic Type R were very good econoboxes (not so much the awful Honda Stream suspension) and it's certainly true the K series has some cost-cutting/friction-reduction from the S2000 engine like narrower big end bearings, the two cams aren't connected by an idler gear anymore etc, yet it is popular anyway. The K series did originally come with the exact same valve springs as the S2000, which was good of Honda despite a slightly lower-revving engine, and the intake VCT soon proved it's usefulness!
My 2016 civic 1.5 turbo touring has 200K miles and I haven’t had any problems . I started using 5w-30 amsoil signature at 36K as soon as my warranty was up instead of using the 0w-20 from Honda which is absolutely silly in my opinion . I didn’t even lose 1 mpg in fuel economy when I switched the oil . I had the oil tested at blackstone labs at 170K and it didn’t have a fuel dilution problem . It is just a stock daily driver though and I don’t drive it hard .
I had a 99 si, and the b16 is a great engine. I had a 22 si, and I could tell right after I broke the motor in that the car wasn't designed to be driven like my 99 si. Not to mention quite a few times, when I was in traffic, I could see wisps of steam hitting the wind shield. The hood was always so damn hot. The l15 always seemed to be struggling, I absolutely refused to throw a hondata on there. Needless to say, I traded it in for a fl5 type r and couldn't be happier. After a 6 hr. drive home from purchasing my type r, the hood was cold. I understand this isn't an option for everyone, my suggestion is to get a low mileage older si that has a k-series engine if you plan on tuning it. This will cost less than a brand new si. The l15 engine is a gas saver, it's not meant for tuning or even hard daily driving. Thanks for the video my guy, you solidified in my mind why I got rid of the car.
I’ve had a 2004 Lexus RX330 and daily driven it hard. The engine and transmission never skipped a beat. The 3MZ-FE is a V6 engine built for fuel economy but, can really take a beating. It’s pretty much just a piston in a cylinder compared to those new fangled turbocharged and downsized engines with questionable reliability. The 2GR-FE is more powerful, more efficient, and reliable than the 3MZ engine. For the price of a new Civic SI, you could pickup a used V6 Toyota Camry or V6 Honda Accord. Mash on it to your hearts content as long as you change the oil every 5k miles and ATF every 100k miles, you will never have problems.
@@davidperry4013 I agree! I have told several people to get a v6 accord instead of getting an si. It has way more hp and torque anyway. The only issue with the camry is the transmission. Guys who want an si, want a manual transmission, and they don't make camrys in stick anymore. The 2.0t accord is also another option, since is also comes in manual, and essentially has a detuned k20 type r engine. If a person is really bent on getting an si, I recommend they get one of the older models that comes with a k20 or k24. The l15 engine is just absolute trash, even the old school d-series motors are better than the l15.
My 2018 Honda Accord 1.5 Turbo is now 155,000 miles and I don't have any serious problems. I am a daily commuter of 80 miles for 5 years and still counting. Maybe it all depends on how the drivers use and abuse of the car.
@@Xernive "Literally this, these drivers *redline & expect nothing bad to happen* ..." It is in a Civic Si after all. OK, the 8th-gen Si never had shift lights, but the 8th-gen Civic Type Rs had shift lights as standard and back then the Si and Type R were much closer to being the same car. 9th-gen Si had shift lights. 10th-gen Si had virtual shift lights in the digital dash. The 11th-gen Si with the L15 has physical LED shift lights again in the Canadian model too.
It's nice to know that the rod bolts in Honda's new 200HP performance engines are thinner than the rod bolts in my 3HP Harbor Freight water pump. Nice job Honda! 👍
It's *not* a performance engine though? Why would anyone think that a Honda Fit engine with a turbo on it, is a performance engine? 🙂This all seems to precipitated from a misunderstanding about the eco-turbo engine, when the same motorists would probably be perfectly happy if they chose an appropriate engine like the K20C, J30AT (TLX Type S engine) or JNC1 (NSX engine).
@tassielorenzo7070 because it's sold in the CIVIC SI! Si civics used to come with excellent B16 and K20 engines that were overengineered and would could easily double their output on stock internals. It's not like this is a base model engine. Honda are being cheapasses and instead of putting in a detuned k20c1 in, they put a shit tier economy engine. People are right to be annoyed.
@@TheBongoman47 🤔 Good points. Possibly for CAFE reasons they don't want to put such an inefficient engine in so many cars anymore. By comparison, the Integra Type S and Civic Type R are low volume so they don't affect Honda's CAFE MPG for passenger cars so much. But then you can say "but Subaru can do it", they have the inefficient FA24 in the BRZ (now just as good as any K24?) and the inefficient FA24DIT in the WRX and that seems to be fine. I dunno.
@@TassieLorenzo Right, but at least in the real world, the K series engines aren't inefficient. I can't speak for the efficiency of the L15, but I have yet to average less than 40 MPG from my K24A2 swapped 7th gen Civic. In fact, I averaged 44 MPG last tank and I haven't even started tuning it for fuel efficiency yet other than my taller 5th and 6th gears. Somehow I doubt that the L15's are significantly beating that efficiency in the real world, but maybe they do in EPA testing.
@@averyalexander2303 40 UK(?) MPG (7L/100km)! Do you have the Accord/TSX gearbox with the longer ratios? I have the Type R close ratio gearbox (3500rpm @ 110kph) and never get better than 28 UK MPG / 23.5 US MPG (10L/100km) with my K20Z4. I don't care, it's fine, I like how it doesn't vary whether or not you drive it hard, unlike a turbo car where you can literally see the fuel gauge going down in the canyons...
Not being ideal for racing does not make it "the worst engine Honda ever built". Proper maintenance and conservative driving habits its as reliable as anything Honda has ever built. They did have some issues with fuel dilution, and I'll agree if you want to race something this is not the engine you want to use, but as a stock, daily driver it's a good motor. I have a 2019 CRV with 100,000 miles on it and have had 0 problems out of it, nothing but standard maintenance. I did see some rising oil levels due to fuel dilution, but switching to super fuel has stopped that. Runs great and gets great gas mileage. The CVT gives me some concerns, but I've saw plenty of these transmissions with 200,000+ miles. You just have to take care of it. Racing is not taking care of it. Not a knock on your video, just found it a bit misleading.
did you even watch the video? go back and watch the last minute he basically says the same thing where if you are just using it as a daily economy car it’s just fine
@@stephenhood2948 read his name dude, if you watched more than 1 second of the video before commenting youd realize he was talking about for racing applications and building them, he also talked about how it was built with economy in mind and not performance and says its a perfectly fine motor in that regard
So it’s a good reliable engine. What you are complaining about is that you can’t use the engine above 400whp. It is what it is my friend. Over all the car is awesome. With proper maintenance (even increased (more oil chgs) oil chgs) this engine is awesome and economical.
Reliability is affected. If all you got from what he was pointing out was making more power with it, then you are lost. The issue is all these weak points Honda created will be big failure points that will cost the consumer lots of money to repair. Idk about you, but I don't want to deal with weak rod bolts and skinny journals on my crank. That's the biggest issue with Subaru's. You can't do anything about poor engine design. There's no excuse!! You can't outbuild a shitty engine design.
@@SuperSmoovy weakest point is cvt. Cvt is only for 100hp….but Honda somehow engineered another 92hp for 192…the engine is designed to work in a narrow power band…I owned one and it was out standing. It was plenty fast and zero issues. It does require a lot of maintenance but if you keep up it’s great. Yes I totally get what you are saying but I hope you get what I am saying….
I bought a salvage 2017 Si, I had to replace the engine, I put a junkyard L15 in it and it's been fantastic. I won't tune it because replacing the clutch with something satisfactory is so difficult. Several of my friends and I have agreed Honda engineered the 10gen to very small margins..a tune is really pushing the envelope.
So basically the L series is for economy not maximum performance. Just keep it stock. If you want performance get a K. This is like someone trying to race a hf motor. Not the point of that motor at all. Or when people threw turbos on stock B18 LS or B20 and were surprised it blew and reved it beyond it was supposed to. No brainer.
Damn...as a 10th gen Si owner this hurts to watch lmao. Prior to watching this I had planned on ordering Ktuner v1.2, MAPperformance downpipe, and a PRL intercooler next week. Now, I'm thinking less mods and selling the whole disaster to carmax and buying a 9th gen like I should have initially. So thankful I found this video when I did, thank you for posting this gem.
That's all bullshit. The L15B7 doesn't really start to have bottom end issues until around 475-500+ WHP. You'll have absolutely zero issues with everything you wanna do up to that. Watch some people that actually build these motors and push these numbers on the regular. If you're that worried, and wanna push up the HP numbers, you can bulletproof these motors no problem with new I-beam forged rods, pistons, sleeves, etc.
@@BigBear-- the second you do all that the oil pump calls it quits gnades the engine! So to add make sure you got one of those upgraded pumps out there. lol my engine no matter how much i upgrade its still going to redline at 6500rpm. It wont ever go to 8k anyways. Though if it was meant to then I'm certain they wouldn't have used this build. The thing is even the fuel system starts to need upgrading once you reach that threshold and it just so happens that threshold is at the same ball park as when he saying the engine starts to see problems. To me that sounds like The fueling issues are no mistake...Kinda a road block to not send it to hard!
Honestly if you want 800hp clearly this isn't the engine to go with. But, it's far from the worst Honda engine and plenty of owners can vouch for that.
What would a worse honda engine be? As far as i know most are more reliable. The only people i really see defending it are the people that own one and cant get out of it. I took the same L most people took and bought this car. Just warning others
@@Alexbuilt h series engines were pretty dog water. People praise them but they were always snapping rods. Really most of them were bad besides the f series and k's. Also the engine you built for your customer failed so could've been a operator error
@@cryxbaby2250 how were h series engines dog water. They have tons of potential and are currently in the 7s. Just because some people didnt like them doesnt mean it wasnt a well designed engine. Matter a fact its a excellent engine
@@cryxbaby2250 H series dog water? Are you on crack? D series, J series, F series, B series and K series all great platforms. The L series just suck ass, even in the new 11th gen, they're causing alot of problems.
I don't disagree with anything in this video. The comparisons are spot on. Honda obviously wanted to reduce mass and skimped where they could for fuel economy. But... A company I have an interest in does document oriented courier work. There are 6 Honda CR-V's that are 2017 and 2018 models. They will haul 10 to 20 document boxes to and from various places all over the state for legal and financial firms. Each have a custom Hondata tune oriented around fuel economy. They run 93 octane and get synthetic oil changes directly from the dealer. The CVT gets Amsoil every 30k to 40k. No major issues and they range from 150k to 250k miles. Granted, they are almost exclusively highway miles, but for average use, I think the design is fine. But I 100% agree that tuning these engines is a fools errand.
@@ChrisRobato Correct. The 1.5 turbo was put in CR-V's starting in 2019. Not sure, but I thought the base LX trim for that year still retained the K-series 2.4 but I could be mistaken. I was looking to purchase a Touring trim but the fuel leak-down issue at that time was worrisome (plenty of media coverage) and the manufacturer response was simply to change the oil every month. Not good enough, so I bought something else. At the same time, my son was looking to buy a new Civic. I warned him against getting the L-series 1.5 turbo. He ended up buying an LX and got the much better K-series 2.0 (non-turbo).
The engine is great with following driving recommendations: 1. Change oil every 8k miles. Ideally Honda Type 2.0 0W20 or any other oil with API SN Plus, API SP specification. 2. Let the engine warm up, don't push it. You will have LSPI due to direct injection which is leading to head gasket failure. 3. Drive it like a NA engine, so not much boost below 2500/3000 rpm and shift depending on the situation at 2-2500 rpm. Don't go full throttle at 1500rpm often. 4. This engine has a lot of torque (compared to D16, R18, R20, B16, B18 ones), no need to push it hard in low rpms. Watch the turbo gauge, only use 3-4 bars maximum at warmed engine. 5. Use premium fuel (atleast 91+ octane). 6. Tune to maximum 220hp.
@@yoandry007 you need of course the turbo version which comes standard with atleast 174hp. I don't think that you can reach above 150hp with an ecu tune in the NA L15.
You mentioned the head gasket issue on this engine. I noticed the open deck design on the block has slots/slits between the cylinders 01:05. That was a similar design choice that Ford used on their Ecoboost engines before they had the coolant intrusion issues and then redesigned some of the Ecoboost blocks with solid sealing surface instead.
The D and even B series had open decks too. Heck, a lot of Porsches are even open, when they're feeling cheap and cheesy (which is way too often, given their pricing). It can be done right, but it's usually a bad sign.
@@JETZcorp open deck is okay in some applications such as D and B, but the slits between cylinders is a known failure point in forced induction applications.
People have been making 700+ on open deck engines for years now. N54 bmw engines repeatedly hold 600hp on stock everything, and the open deck block has been taken to 1000 hp. I will say they went with a closed deck design for the b58.
Probably the worst engine ever made by honda for "tuners", maybe, but probably the best engine made by honda for " normal" users, (probably the 98% of them). I have had three honda cars, 4 honda bikes, and my lawnmover is a honda also. I own a 1.5T civic, and i´m very happy with it, very powerfull, and very low consumption for the power. You couldn´t expect in the past to have a 182 CV car with this fuel consumption. Don´t expect "robust" engines from any manufacturer in the future they can´t comply with the new "rule" that is the fuel economy, low emissions, etc etc... Keep your K20 engines! Thanks for the video
Unfortunately with emission standard becoming more strict. Companies are designing engines more for fuel economy and emission while sacrificing other aspects.
Those small safety margins are pretty disappointing, especially for something designed for a sporty car Honda knew people were going to modify and drive hard. I'm not seeing the advantage of this engine over the older ones either. If they were actually significantly more fuel efficient maybe I could accept the reduced durability as an unavoidable trade off, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm getting 40+ MPG out of my K24A2 swapped 04 Civic with the same or more power, no turbo lag, proven reliability, and huge tuning potential, so I fail to see how this is an improvement in any way other than probably being cheaper to manufacture and slightly lighter.
Honda was forced to design their cars with the EPA fuel economy formula in mind. One of the problems with the formula is that it takes into account the size of the vehicle, basically the bigger the car the lower the mileage requirements, it’s why we don’t have small trucks anymore. Then I think there’s a displacement part to the formula too, anyways I suspect they were wanting to meet the demands of the consumer while meeting fuel economy standards… so we get this crappy thing in the end that looks sporty.
@@Kennys_World I agree. It's completely ridiculous how we use increasingly giant cars and trucks as the "solution" to efficient and environmentally friendly transportation and even more ridiculous that the EPA has been allowing this to go on for decades under multiple administrations instead of simply revising their formula to favor smaller and lighter vehicles for actual improvements in efficiency and emissions.
@@cabojacks5106 I never said they should build the engine to be modded, I just said that I don't see any benefit of this engine over the K series. Also, right, wrong, or indifferent, a lot of people who buy cars like Civic Si's are going to modify them and manufacturers know it. It's definitely not the fault of the manufacturer if someone causes a problem by modifying something, but when a manufacturer installs an engine with such little tuning potential compared to previous engines in an enthusiast model, people aren't going to be thrilled with that, especially since there's no major benefit to the customer that I'm seeing.
In regards to oil viscosity, I think you’re wrong. The reason for the thin lightweight oil is for café economy standards. I have a 2 L turbo in my Acura RDX. I also have a MDX that has a 3.5 L both of the cars I run mobil 1 0/40. I also run very short oil changes of 3000 miles oil and filter all these new direct injected engines have oil fuel delusion issues which intern you lose viscosity another reason why to run zero40.
I agree the rotating assembly is pretty tiny. That being said my stock l15a has 318k miles as of this post. No issues other than an alternator failure and bad coil pack.
My touring blew up at 200k Modified and tuned for most of that 100k and up. I drove the car so hard too, it finally gave in but i was impressed. Had fun to! fast forward a yr or so and my cvt blew at 235k. Ive since replaced them both but watching this is not a fun time lol. I love the 10th gens but he makes clear and good argument . Sir thank you for your effort in explaining this in these ways. The comparisons are perfect ! Very well done .., ty
My stock L15A1 (on a GD3 Jazz) is only pushing about 280k KMs (not sure how many miles that is), but I needed to change my gearbox (manual 5 speed), and a collapsed catalytic converter, and lower control arms (one of the lower ball joints was loose), and the engine is still as strong as ever... At this rate, I'll probably have to replace everything else in my Jazz before I have to recondition anything engine related... I probably don't know any better, since this is my first car, but I absolutely adore this little thing, I've driven pickup trucks that are faster. Yet, compared to most cars I've driven, my Jazz feels more engaging to drive, even as tired as mine is... Go figure...
@khoadinh4120 Yeah, it's been good to me. I don't mind the work but if your not inclined to repair it yourself then I'd caution against the tuning and modifications. The car was never dyno'd and was tuned with an Etune, which leaves you with a good running vehicle, yes. But you don't get all that data you would from say a dyno tune. Guessing wise and based off others with similar parts and from the same tuner, I think it was closer to that 280/300 hp line, i was pretty maxed out with my fuel system. So the tune has 3 stages of settings. The turbo psi being the difference in those settings I believe. So, I drove it mainly on #1 the lowest of psi, with an upgraded turbo of course. I would play around with #2 settings and it felt good, #3 would have me laughing and kinda to that point like " wow, I shouldn't probably be driving it much at that setting." That could of just been me though. The Hp and torque, I'm guessing was 280 to 300. I was close to my fuel systems max and my tranny was too based off the heat gen. If you have driven a car for this long and this far, you monitored it stock and tuned, you know the different data points well enough. I can tell based off my heat generation within the cvt if I got more room or not. It didn't, but it did not overheat if I knew when I could push it. And when not to. It's funny because you work so hard fighting the engine heat soaking, new fmic allows you that head room, turbo blankets help to minimize that radiant heat build up, but that whole time the heat starts to shift from a problem in engine heat soaking and now it's heat build up in the tranny fluid lol. It's like you trade it off , but thats just how I felt.
Yeah- I was just looking at a clean 2018 Honda Accord, With 105k miles. It drove ok, lots of road noise, but I wanted to do some independent research on the 1.5L turbo, because as we know, when you purchase a used vehicle & drive away, you only relying on the known reliability of the engine & transmission based upon historical data & reliability reported from other owners. So I was hopeful since it was a Honda, it would be an easy decision, but my research last day or so, has educated me to avoid the 1.5 turbo at all costs. I hear the 2.0 is a decent engine, so still considering a Honda, If I can find a clean 2.0
Mines been alive 146k and fbo the longest time tuning is everything but don't expect a monster power house or something that'll run great track times. These engines are more for roll racing and tracks. I definitely wouldn't waste money trying to go over 330whp. All those parts are just made cheap and mass produced
This engine was made to be cheap and fail around 250 k. It is made to fail. Honda wants profits everyone in the board of directors were celebrating the success . The issue is that they destroy the image Honda had . Eventually this will reflect in sales. This motor will be discontinued eventually .
With a bore that small, I'd also be concerned about the cylinder and chamber sides shrouding the valves, impairing flow. Makes me think just doing a K20C swap is a better move. The more you show and explain, the more I become convinced that you either leave it stock or K20C swap. Even an Accord version you'll start with a lot more power than the 1.5T
Think about a production cost and economy of those engines. K20 is not a cheap engine. And its also not a economic engine. Because it is designed for durability. Not hating on k20s, who does not like them, just cannot compare those two. Its like comparing them for fuel economy and hating on k20
@garage5125 while you make valid points, the K20 and K24 are pretty fuel efficient in normal driving, don't have oil dilution problems, last longer, more responsive and easier to maintain.
@@vanhasydan4754 the k20 is definitely a better engine overall, but it kind of is a better hope so situation when you look onto the production cost. yes, i would also preffer it for its repairability, power (capability) simplicity and most importantly for NOT using direct injection. and even for a person, that uses like 40 hp max and drives his car 90 kilometers per hour on good road, i would still recommend them the k20, for using intake manifold fuel injection, because direct injection brings nothing but problems and working on it and repairing it is a pig. but i would not call this the worst engine when we know directly injected n63s that are so much worse and also cost more than the entire honda car (but still cheaper than paying someone to replace one small valvetrain component as you have to take the engine out of the car and disassemble it completely). so for normal owner those are actually pretty reliable considering they are direct injection engines, and if you like to revv the guts out of your car, get some used k20😂🤣🤣
Needed to hear this. Thank you. Started adding some light mods and a tune for about 1000 miles and the engine is messed up in the bottom end. It JUST broke 40K not to long ago and it's really just sad. Wish i saw this a month ago lol.
@@allyance8846 it was probably a miss shift but it was done over a month before the engine decided to give out. she got fully replaced with warranty and even got a new RV6 Catted DP/FP so she’s in better shape now lol. I have a couple of other mods coming in so I still have my project, thank god.
Damn man coming from a background years ago machining LS one engines , mostly V-8 stuff - the points u are making this video are spot on I’ve honestly been looking at the GR Corolla the WRX 2022 and up and a Honda civic SI just for something with a six speed manual and I tell you the production problems that Subaru is having the problems in general with direct injection motors on all turbos nowadays it’s really hard to get excited about buying a performance car these days that’s not a V-8
I believe you are on to something. Honda has already pushed a recall for the 2017-2020 CR-V's with the L15BE (1.5t engine). The Accord 2017-2022 (1.5t), and Accord 2023-present (1.5t non-hybrids), 2017-2022 Honda CR-V, and 2023-current Honda CR-V's use this engine still. Honda says they have corrected the issue in newer versions of the L15BE. But if there are issues with the engine NA, just imagine throwing a Turbo on it will just shorten the life of the engine even more. If the customer changes the oil at ever 5k miles that seems to be a good idea anyways but may mitigate some of the oil dilution issues seen. But I highly doubt these engines are good up past 150k, due to adding the turbo to them. The added heat alone will shorten the lifespan of a really well engineered engine. So I seriously doubt someone buying a 1.5t Honda engine expect it to go 200k plus. Most owners are good if they can get over 120k out of a stock engine and transmission when a turbo is involved. On the recall Honda has issued a limited warranty on those parts, nothing sizeable to make customer feel like Honda is going above and beyond. I wonder how many customers saw failure of their L15BE outside of the factory warranty, paid a pretty penny to get them repaired before Honda did the recall. I think we would call the ex-Honda customers. Don't get me wrong I have had really good Honda's, and this video just drives home the need to stay away from any of the 1.5t engines from Honda. Also I am choosing to go with a 10th gen 2.0t Accord as my next car. Very similar built engine to the Type-R, but not same internals or Turbo. Also the 11th gen Accord is a dud to me. Thanks for the video.
Your assessment and OPINION as well as your experiences of these engines and there potential failure points when TUNED is pretty on point and great advice. As a 22 year Honda tech I have seen all the failures I think, but the most common on these 1.5's are head gaskets and that's a stock config. These things were over engineered for the least amount of friction and weight as possible to get good fuel economy, that's why when its -30 out they never warm up as there's no friction in these things. I beat the hell out of my B16a and had zero issues, I also have an 18 Si and drive it hard as well and no issues but i suspect i might seeing the current trend, and no I have no intentions of modding it. The only thing i disagree after watching this is you comparison between the L15, K series and B series... they are three totally different engines in all aspects, so comparing the con rod bolts and head bolts is the same as me comparing con rod bolts from my 01 Insight to my friend 94 Mustang, makes no sense. I never noticed the oil galleys on the cranks as I have not had to pull one yet but that's interesting. Every Honda engine has its faults that could be considered the worst, but I am getting rich on timing chains in K series that's for sure and I think that's the worst engine IMOP but the best for mods by far like you describe. . Best engine for reliability and lack of any issues of any kind for me would be the 1.8 SOHC(06-15 Civics's ) and the B16 series :) Thanks for the breakdown
@@nateTrh chain wear, crappy OE tensioners and weak VTC gears but mostly due to lack of oil changes, and that’s if there not burning oil , again due to crappy gas and dirty oil
The L15B is a economy crossover appliance engine Honda slapped in their Civic Si to save development costs. What is marginal at best in a CRV doesn't cut the mustard in a car that has had excellent engines that respond great to modifications for over 30 years. In addition to the plethora of mechanical design flaws, the L15B just has no character and is such a disappointment from a company that produced stellar engines not even 15 years ago.
Mine has about 148K miles never had the long block open but I've finally starting to have a head gasket leak. Tuned FBO from 68k miles to 128k miles. Then I went big turbo up until now. Have a small coolant leak in the cylinder
You referenced GTI engines. The AE888.3 and .4 can reliably hold 450-550whp. You’ll have clutchpack issues well before piston/rod issues. I put 70k miles on mine (Audi a3 Quattro) at ~500whp with no issues. Would do mid 10s in the rain, and is still on the road with this setup at 150m miles.
Lucky you and I hope it will stay that way ... My 2019 Ea888 was a disaster, @50k miles maintained at dealership every 6 k, had turbo failed, MAP sensor failed, warped front axles, failed diverter valve, failed EGR valve, replaced awd rear axle bushings ... and I traded it for a Civic SI new, hopefully this one will be better
Could it be that it’s as simple as this motor is intended to be lower reving as a design principle. Basically, if you’re looking to do 2.5x the power output that stock produces, then you’re just asking for reliability issues. It’s not a bad motor, it’s a stupid modification plan.
@@Alexbuilt - cite where. I’ve not seen anything about this motor except for the oil dilution problem and the assertions that Honda seemed to fix that issue.
@@stms4411 search any tenth gen fourm. I have a pile of broken l15s. The worst is the older people with stock cvt ones. Feel bad they thought they bought something reliable just to snap a rod
Good info. Like you said, the entire engine is built around fuel economy. Less recropicating mass and less overall weight. In your opinion, what is a safe max torque from the K20C4 for longevity? The difference in rods is night and day, but trying to put it into perspective.
For a k20c4 would be the same as a k20c1. Around 400tq would be the max. Also depends how it comes in. A stock turbo maxed out will bend rods faster then a big turbo with more tq on the top end of the rev range
@@chorizojuice2018. She is very particular about the way she drives her car and doesn’t beat on it very much either though, she takes great care of it so i do believe it has everything to do with how she cares for her car
I would like to testify to my many problems encountered with my Civic 2020 Sport Plus with the 1.5T L15BA engine in France. I bought this car new in February 2020 with 0km. Currently I have 20000km (12500 miles). According to Honda France, my Civic was not affected by the fuel pump problem but unfortunately no brand recall. And indeed I had power loss and idle problems. The pump had to be changed at 16,000 km (10,000 miles). I'm not talking about paint problems on a rally red on the rear bumper. But even more serious when I realized a little late that my Civic was drinking coolant. The maintenance garage didn't know where it was going. So we were regularly filling up the expansion tank, until one summer day this year when it was particularly very very hot, the Civic found itself in extreme engine overheating. The Civic had starting problems and seemed to run on 2 or 3 cylinders. The garage still did not ask questions, despite my concerns. So he refueled and 500km (300 miles) later, the jar was empty again. The garage therefore decides to open the engine in 2 and was able to see that my cylinder head had a big molding problem from the factory. So since buying my Civic, my 1.5T engine was drinking coolant through cylinder 2 and smoking white out the exhaust. The cylinder head had to be changed at 19500km (12200 miles). Since the idle is not terrible and I like tremors in the engine. Unfortunately, I no longer trust this car and Honda. I have problems reselling it because of this defect and Honda France doesn't care !
At 4:35, "let's say you're making 600, 700, 800 horsepower then this crank is really not going to be happy". Ya, you're right, terrible engine then, worst Honda engine ever made, now I know.
I really enjoy it as a daily driver. Ill just stick to efficiency mods. Intercooler, intercooler pipes, maybe a few others. But its fantastic stock. Very informative video. Sounds like they took 4 predator 212 motors and strapped em together with a turbo.
I am very glad that I kept my 11th gen Si stock drivetrain. Ran almost 30 track days and 30k street miles with my stock L15 w/o problem. Key was ester based engine oil. Several folks with stock cars and engine oil blew on tracks.
Bro speaking facts I blew up At 320 within a year of having the tune, rods on cylinder 1, 3 and 4 gave out mid pull completely coming out of the block, these engines are for sure not meant to hold power
Damn I have an 11th gen Si and yeah it was very hard for me to decide which car to get because of the specs. My first car was a 2007 Toyota Corolla S and I always wanted to drive manual (Mind you I'm 21). Being that I also wanted to build my credit more besides just using credit cards, I figured getting a new car would be best for me to do that so that's why I then even looked into new cars. I had my eyes on the 10th & 11th gen Si and the 2022 GR86/BRZ. I saw and heard how I believe it was Hondata made a video comparing the regular 11th gen civic and 11th gen Si and after watching your video. It totally makes sense how the Si is legit the same engine but before they put it in, they just change the tune so it ends up being the same either ways. I do/don't regret getting my Si let's say over the regular 11th gen civic or the other cars just because I bought it knowing I'm going to keep it stock, good on gas, turbo'd, and again it's manual. So as a daily standpoint I can't complain which you were right about from the beginning if that is what you plan on doing with the car anyways. TBH, it's not like I ever race anyone either (like as if anyone even tries to race me lol which they don't and don't blame them since I'm slow). I just liked the fact that I can have fun on backroads and stuff like that so. If it was that I wanted to build a street car, I've always had my eyes on the 2008 Civic Si's or the 2006 RSX Type-S's just bc of the K20's but for the sake of wanting to build credit, I figured sure I'll just get a newer car. Besides Honda's hold their value so I'm sure I'll get a decent return for when I sell it down the road so that if anything, I can always buy one of those cars I mentioned with cash and build it. But I appreciate the information, very informative, and would highly recommend anyone reading this that if you're going to be buying/getting a new car for yourself (old/new), buy it because you like it and that it makes sense for you. Just make sure you set the right intentions for yourself about the car like what's it for (Race? Street? Dailly? All-around?), budget, and etc,.
What's been changing for the last several years is a shift to more performant engines from the factory. It used to be the case that you could take B series, K series, 2JZ, and many other engines and get heaps more power if you knew what you were doing. The push for better fuel economy, lower emissions and high-performance variants of popular models means that more of that tuning is being done from the factory. So, you are correct. This engine has a hell of a lot less TUNING potential, but these modern engines perform way better than anything used to in stock form. There's tons of professional engineers putting their time into making engines with great low-end torque and operating at the upper end of safe limits. We're in a time period where a 1.6L, 3 cylinder toyota engine makes 300 HP in stock form. You cannot have those kinds of numbers and still expect tons of tuning potential with any sort of reliability. I'd also point out that this engine is far from the worst compared to other manufacturers (VW and Subaru would like a word with their turbo engines), or even examples like the Honda 2.4.
Looks like Honda hired Chrysler engineers to make this for them! I was thinking about getting an SI but as a mechanic there’s no way I’d want to buy a car that has such a poorly designed engine. Even under normal use there’s some people reporting head gasket failures. I’m gonna keep my slow ass Corolla
The old Turbo 2.2's and the 2.0/2.4 were WAY beefier than these ever could hope to be. Sure everything around them fell apart, but the engines were good, save for the occasional head gasket in the time before MLS head gaskets became a thing.
The motor is fine for what it is out of the box as long as you have the willpower to leave it alone. Honda, or any car company for that matter is never going to put out something this day in age of slim-margin design that you can get blood from a stone on. You want something faster, save your clams for something else that's built for that.
Trying to get 500 hp out of 90 cubin inches, that's funny right there, and without even studying the engine first. Open deck block- Check, Skinny rod bolts- Check, Tiny crank journals- Check. Yup, everything you need to blow up real good.
I wish there was a video like this made by an actual honda engineer. I would prefer to hear opinions based on knowing the reasons for development of this engine and that can only be had by someone who worked at Honda. This guy obviously knows what he's talking about, but his world of experience isnt in the development or testing phases; its based solely in building up stock engines, and seeing how much abuse they can handle. Thats a different world of experience and Ive heard many smart, knowledgeable people apologize for being wrong when they turn their expertise from one field, to another. He probably knows more than honda engineers about tuning and modifying their engines, but he definitely isnt the equal of a honda engineer. Id be careful accepting his observations as fact. In the end, any company can produce a faulty, short lived engine, no company is immune to this. However, I think the chances of that happening within Honda are the least among any company building cars today. Honda has always been an engine-designing company first, and a company that produces cars designed around that engine, second. The video author cant speak to the design process, metals/materials/alloys used, or theory behind this engine - all he has are observations based on modding experience, which is a limited experience at best. Its born in informal and undisciplined environments like a buddies garage, even when backed up by real education like wyotech, etc. Im not bashing the guy, his content, or guys getting together and tuning their rigs. Im merely saying be careful taking this as fact. It is not. Let the flaming begin I guess, I will ignore it.
I mean we know why everything was designed the way it was. The light weight rods for better fuel economy. The long stroke for better low end tq Although i dont know the scientific make up of the metals the materials are stronger then before when it comes to the rods. You can see that everything is focused towards fuel economy with little room for performance in mind. Even the oiling system was designed with 0w20 in mind and nothing more then that. What makes this motor bad in my opinion even in stock form there is very little room for error. Over boost one time and the rod can come out the block. Thats the difference. To make a high reving naturally aspirated engine everything is over built to withstand high rpm for long duration. The l15 isnt anything more then a base civic engine with a slight tune before going into a civic si and thats what is irritating. Lets go back to the year 2000. You get a 2000 ex civic with a d16y8 or a 2000 si with a b16. That b16 is on another planet compared to the d16 and although you can build both in the end the b16 is a huge upgrade and has huge potential. For me its a shame that honda didnt even attempt to do something different for the civic si. Shit at minimum they could have put stronger rods and a better rod to stroke ratio since people will be modding the civic si vs the base. But they just pretty much threw the same engine in the si. Thats the disappointing part. They just dont care anymore and since the epa is pushing for better mpg they will do anything to try and reach it even if it means the integrity of the internals
maybe it's not engineer, it's marketing, and accounting. maybe they shift the MTTF toward somewhere. Honda want to survive , also fulfill their obligation to the share holder....
The good engines were all designed in the '90's when Honda and Japan were still walking tall. They sold those engines and variants for the next 15 years. The 1.5T is the result of taking the Fit engine and making is just strong enough to handle boost. The best engine today, the K20C1's are still just variants of the K series designed in the '90s.
@@quademasters249 they should have designed a different engine platform for the small turbo engines instead of using the L15 that engine for was designed for the insight and fit 20 years ago as a fuel sipper and nothing more. Honda hasn’t really designed a new engine platform in 20 years at all they have be selling is the same L K And J series these past few years it would be nice if the come out with something new like Toyota did wit the GR Yaris engine
@@RaffiJaharian Agreed. Probably won't happen though. They've already dipped their toes in the EV waters so ICE engine development is probably close to over.
There seems to be a lot of tuning on the LC15A DE4/FE1 and even stock it dyno'd to the wheels the marketed hp/tq, which I guess would make crank like 220/230? That seems pretty decent and fun to me stock at least. Do you think the people tuning successfully are outliers?
Damn bro I’m just back to say I’m shooting for 400whp now stock motor still. I really think just stock turbo and headbolts are really the only limiting factor of this engine. I’m literally smacking the rev limiter 7k daily almost to 100k miles now and no issues (other than transmission but now that’s ppg 1-4). 350 wtq at 2k rpm will kill these engines no doubt in my mind.330 wtq at 5k rpm it’ll live All day(w3 turbo) We’ll see tho I’ll forsure update if it explodes at 400whp
Consumer reports seems to show a drastic reduction is engine problems starting in the 2020 model year. Do you agree from what you have seen? I'm looking at getting a 2023 Accord LX 1.5 and am hoping Honda has resolved the head gasket issue.
@@G16E-GTS_ not just that, the 1.5t does also have a crippling issue with the injectors as a whole. Their manufacturer Keihin, claims to have had a poor batch. Which is why V6’s have been hit hard, and again very similarly designed ones also used in their 4 cylinders. So pretty much they can potentially leak fuel into the cylinders alone even when using great fuel.
I'm running mine with a 20 psi tune and an intake. Stock DP, stock everything else. I'm sad that the reliability is tossed out the window, but I hope to get 300,000 KMs and make it til 2030. Gas mileage is really good on it though, 5-6L/100KM on the highway. What's your thoughts on making these more reliable besides detuning? Would it be better to just never rev em out?
From what he is saying its probably better to put it back to stock and just drive it the way it originally was set up. I have a 2.0 NA and with a CVT and I get around 5-6L/100km if I'm extremely conservative. Honda really knows how to make gas sippers!
most of the problems come from tuning for power. It just wasn't designed to be boosted up. If kept stock, its gonna be fine. The non turbo version of the L15 on the Fit is super reliable.
My brother and I both drive L15B7 SI's (2019 and 2020) and haven't had any issues with delivering aftermarket performance. My 2019 has 103K on it at half stage (21 PSI) + Bolt ons (No intercooler or charge pipes) and his 2020 has 93K at stage 1 (26 PSI) and full bolt ons, including charge pipes. We don't race these cars on track often, but drive them hard on the road consistently and A LOT. I agree that sticking to K series would have been much better on the SI's but I do not think these specificL15's are bad engines for modding to stage 1/1.5ish power no problem. Now, the new 11th gen SI's (L15CA) have it much worse. Honda decided to make the rods even lighter for some reason and now those L15CA's are blowing up under stage 1 tunes and spirited driving. It seems that Honda needs to take a look at the aftermarket scene and realize most people aren't buying SI's to stay at stock power and make the engines accordingly, like they did on the k20 and k24.
Would love to see some sort of teardown and overview of the K20 C1 or C4. I was hoping to do a modern K series swap on one of my cars, but after seeing this, I'm a little skeptical of modern honda engines 😬
Taking a 9th gen or older and K swapping is a good plan. The K series engines are a great overall design with the only weakness being the chain tensioner which the performance aftermarket has the answer to.
@@vanhasydan4754 believe it or not the oem tensioner is great and in the drag racing world 8/7 sec cars 80-90 percent use oem tensioners and swap it out as necessary. The tensioner is actually a wear and tear item and thats why there is a little door on the timing cover to make swapping them out easy. For some reason people got the impres that it is lifetime and bashed honda after their tensioner goes bad at 150k Mostly what’s recommended is inline pro or oem. Inline pro has a stronger spring and it wont go in as much as oem. But with good oil pressur both work great Theres other companies that have dual ratcheting mechanisms that ive have personally seen break. On my 1000whp awd civic i use oem and have no issues even past 10,000 rpm
Thank you for this video. I’ve been getting into automotive stuff a lot more and going real in depth with engine building and after watching this… I’m going to leave my 11th gen si stock and have fun shifting.
Yeah, remember you from Fred’s videos for his teal EG coupe. You DEFINITELY know your shit! My wife has an accord with THIS engine and STAYING bone stock FOR SURE. More a less watched for long term longevity thoughts and factory build quality or in this case lack of. Honda definitely not what they used to be. Thanks for video .
i had a 19 si around 350whp which is decent but not good by any standards. I sold that when i started realizing the cost to make it hold decent power. went coyote with boost after that and never looked back.
I’ve now had two friends lose head gaskets in these engines right around 90,000 miles. Used as grocery getting, taking the kids to soccer practice, vehicles.
L series is a Honda fit motor. The L15 in the latest civic si is a turbo fit motor. The reason why they switched the si to this was because the K series was way too costly to put into the civic si, yes I’m talking about the n/a k24z7 and k20z3, they screwed every si owner with a cheap alternate. You would think they would at least be courteous and give the latest si the accord 2.0T k series engine, but someone at Honda was a cheapo and decided to screw all their si buyers. The current si is not really a true si, it’s just a glorified ex/sport model. The proper engine would be the 2.0t from the Honda accord that they just discontinued. But even if they didn’t want to, at least do the integra with the 2.0t so it’s be like in the old days, when Acura would always get a one up on it’s Honda counterparts with the premium they charge
Welp I’m keeping mine stock. I’ve had my 2020 Si for almost 2 years and so far I’ve only put on Fortune Auto 510 coilovers. I don’t think I’ll touch the engine and just keep it a reliable daily.
This engine represents my issues with modern cars: they keep adding fancy shit that makes them less reliable and more expensive. The J and K series motors were arguably the most bulletproof combustion engines ever built. The J35 in my parents' old Honda has chugged on for 15 years and 250,000 miles without a single issue. Sure, it may not be as fast as it used to and it may need oil more often, but it still runs every single time.
Thanks for the breakdown. The new L15 is terrible, been telling this to numerous people for years. Honda made a mistake from getting away from the k series. Put it this way, no1 is doing an L15 motor swap into any car. It’s always a k series swap. Unfortunate how newbies defend this motor.
good K engines with the type R head by themselves are over 1500 dollars, and some people prolly can get an L15, with accessories and ECU for less. The reson ppl defend this motor is due to the fact that its cheap, available and everywhere. Ngl, vw is on its way to make cheap engnies. the EA888 engine is just unbeatable when it comes to performance per dollar.
Honda had to move away from the k-series in certain parts of the world cause of emissions. They should have kept the k series for the US market though.
Good opinionated review. So a sweet spot in between 200-300hp/tq may make more of a reliable daily. Will keep that in mind as that is what mine is to me (a fun dd ).
The only L15 forged crank I can find is from a company in China called KingTec. Some people have used their products and didn't have any issues with it. The problem is, they kept the stroke at 89.4mm. I am looking to build a NA GE Fit. I would be happy with 150HP to the wheels. I am going to strip some weight out of the car too. Honda Fit chassis are really well built, but the engine is a let down. The stiff chassis was really more for safety than motorsports. I guess the alternative is K swap, but K series engines and trans are getting quite expensive these days. Also, you rarely see anybody build the L15s. I wouldn't worry too much about the crank bearing oiling channels. It can be cut out easily. Also, I think with with Golden Eagle sleeves the bore can go up to 75mm. Rzcrew sells 75mm L15 forged pistons with different compression ratios. The highest is 15:1 compression ratios.
friend of mine called yesterday asking me to hear the noise her 2018 L15 turbo CRV is making and it sounds bad. it's just a stock commuter SUV at 89,XXX miles.
Doing God's work, here. Thanks for putting this information out there. Seems like the k20c2 is a much better choice, but I'm not sure how much is out there for forced induction. Sounds like a GTI is simply a better overall choice.
Great video. Good for who wants to buy this engine and tune it up, so they don't do it. Knowing Honda past i don't believe anyone will have issues with stock configuration. Agree that in si versions is a weak engine
The car is good for work and school that’s it. Lmao I bought the car thinking “awesome Honda made a turbo car from the factory and still keep the AC” lol performance wise it never met my expectations. I just bought me another 96 ek civic and a k24a2. I’m going to finish the payments on the 10th gen and trade in for a truck
Great video. What are your thoughts on the 2.0L NA engine, the K20C2 reliability? Any downsides to that engine? How about the K20C1/K20C8 used in the FL5 CTR or the DE5 Integra Type S in terms of longevity?
Just in my area of SoCal I have at least 2 customers with L15 accords and 1 customer with an L15 civic non-si and they all 3 have around 180-230k miles with no major failures whatsoever.
Wow, I love this video since this guy actually took an L-series engine apart to explain its weaknesses. I don’t know why people are trying to mess around with this engine to add power. Honda clearly designed it for mostly fuel economy purposes. Lesson? This engine was not designed to D!cking around with beyond factory settings.
Honda by doing this will encourage tuners to not mess with your motors. Leave it stock and stop messing with their designs and everything will be fine. This will put tuners and tuning business guys out of business.
I’ve worked for Honda for 2 years as a tech now I understand why the displacement so small for fuel economy now I know why these engine have way worse catastrophic failure than other Hondas I’ve seen
Wow! I was considering buying a 1.5 turbo civic here in the UK. I believe they are 180bhp here. I was hoping to keep the motor standard and have it remapped to about 200bhp but nothing else. I think I might avoid this car now as it'll be my daily driver as I have my DC2-R as my weekend toy.
If u drive short distances, less then 30-40 min drive, a lot of cold starts then u gonna have oil dilution problem which I'm having... I've been a honda fun but this civic 10th is my last honda. I don't recommend you 1.5 T engine
I deferred from doing any big mods or the k tune. these engines are fragile I have 90k plus and no issues just driving it to work and back. these are not racecar engines already seen videos of the new Si and Integra blow engines just a few months getting them
You right Alex. Wow really good reasons. Darn those rod bolts and head bolts omg 😲 are so puny heck nah. Good thing I don't even like 10th or 11th gens. I'll buy up to the 8th gen civic that's it. To the k20z3 that's it or k24a2 tsx.
Eh I’ve been beating the 💩 out a big turbo l15 now for about a year came back to say the motors are STOUT. Just do headstuds and possibly get ready for injector change (300 bucks) sorry this video should be changed straight up bad tuning and a stock turbo will set you up for failure. No question no doubt.
Thanks for the heads up!!! I have an 11 gen si. I’ve been doing what I can to upgrade. First time experience for me. I’ve got the PRL, 27won bolt ons from charge pipes, intercooler, high volume outlet, down pipe, front pipe, short ram intake, Hondata race flash pro, rods, pistons, exhaust, and was about to get the turbo charger. I guess my question is what’s too much to do? What’s needed for me to do at this point?
Choosing a dinky little engine with a turbocharger to make horse power over just using a beefier normally aspirated 2 liter was a huge mistake. I’m not a tuner and have no plans to mod my daily driver. I just want a dependable vehicle and Honda just lost my interest. I was looking at the CRV this year and went with a Toyota RAV4 because of this.
I have a 2021 Accord. 12k miles. Completely stock. I agree with you, this car will not be able to hold up to any mods. However, for what it is, it is a great engine. 40-44 mpg on NJ highways, big car, has enough torque and power to keep me on the side roads and highways. Honda did not build this car to produce more power. Everything is about average performance and good fuel economy. They nailed it. But yeah, don't go out and try to get 500 hp out of this engine. It will leave you stuck. Will mine last 200k? Hopefully, but those bolts........
The 1.5L engine being tiny is not the issue. The issue is the weak design, made to focus on fuel economy, not future higher hp applications, like the 2.0L Kseries, 1.6L Bseries, and the 1.6L G16E (hydrogen engine made to withstand extreme forces, used in the GR Corolla/Yaris)..
I wonder if the base NA K20C2 motor is a better platform to build on or is equally as weak as the L15B7. Would be interesting to see when you get your hands on the new L15C motors. See if they improved anything at all.
@@dw8555 they are completely different. Must have read it wrong or responded to the wrong comment. The k20c2 is a better engine but has basically zero aftermarket support
Let’s be honest with ourselves here: this is a 1.5l engine designed for economy. Anyone attempting to make anything more than stock horsepower out of this tiny engine is clearly suffering from a recent stroke.
So people who try to make power out of a b16 are stupid? 😂😂😂 do you think any of the Honda b series motors are going to handle 300 foot pounds of torque stock for a long period of time ?
there's a lot of stroke survivors out there then lol
Ya these are daily drivers not race cars
I actually did the CAI with half of my face drooping
@@SirUncleCid lol
The engineer made a killer job on that one. They were asked to do the best mpg 200hp torquey engine that will use the minimum material possible. They really blew it out of the park.. they never had the tuning scene in mind.
exactly. the cars come with no manual e brake.
it's crazy to think they didn't have aftermarket tuning in mind it's honda after all
@@Mystified now the accord sport is hybrid and automatic only.. don't need more to understand that the passion is gone and that they are after efficiency.
@@-redtangowhy do you think? The passion isn’t gone lol, they have to bend to crap government regulations
@@jhall_79 sorry to break your Honda Dreams or you should I say Earthdream.. but they will never go back to the enthousiast crowd like Toyota is doing now.. unless you like EV Sport lame car
problem #1, trying to make 300 hp on a motor that isn't designed to make more than stock. that's it.
The thing is You used to be able to get that HP from Honda engines they were built that tough and now in this woke world they make weak crap.
@@JasPlun It's an L15 Honda Fit engine with a turbo on it. I don't understand why any reasonable person would think it's a "for like" replacement for the K24 in a 9th-gen Si, ILX, TSX or TLX?! What the L15 engine is and isn't is not a secret. It would be like a VW person trying to tune the 1.4L EA211 instead of buying a car with the EA888 in it (be it 1.8L or 2.0L EA888). By all means you can tune EA211 engines, especially the twincharger ones in the Polo GTI, but expecting them to hold the same power as a EA888 or EA113? Obviously that's just not going to happen.
@@TassieLorenzoHere’s where your argument falls off. No one expected to the K series engines to be as tough as they are. They also started in econoboxes until people started experimenting with them. That’s how these engines got the aftermarket to begin with. Experimenting. The fact that a D series crank is much beefier shouldn’t excuse Honda from making a flimsy crank for the L15. VW overbuilt the 2.slow to high hell with forged internals and all. Obviously, going this route ensures engine reliability at all speeds.
@@Iridiumcosmos Good points! The Integra and Civic Type R were very good econoboxes (not so much the awful Honda Stream suspension) and it's certainly true the K series has some cost-cutting/friction-reduction from the S2000 engine like narrower big end bearings, the two cams aren't connected by an idler gear anymore etc, yet it is popular anyway.
The K series did originally come with the exact same valve springs as the S2000, which was good of Honda despite a slightly lower-revving engine, and the intake VCT soon proved it's usefulness!
some guy on youtube has 600 000 MILES on this engine with no roblems@@mstewie9718
My 2016 civic 1.5 turbo touring has 200K miles and I haven’t had any problems . I started using 5w-30 amsoil signature at 36K as soon as my warranty was up instead of using the 0w-20 from Honda which is absolutely silly in my opinion . I didn’t even lose 1 mpg in fuel economy when I switched the oil . I had the oil tested at blackstone labs at 170K and it didn’t have a fuel dilution problem . It is just a stock daily driver though and I don’t drive it hard .
Wow, I wouldn't have thought the L15 engine would be weaker than the D series. Those connecting rod bolts are unbelievable.
I see you everywhere
L15 engine is a fail
It seems weaker but a d series struggles to handle 200 wtq stock block. Now piston and rod both blocks and ill take a desries all day
Introducing the new Chrysler-I mean Honda L15
B series, K series, and J series engines are work horses. You can put a good amount of boost in them and it will still run forever.
I had a 99 si, and the b16 is a great engine. I had a 22 si, and I could tell right after I broke the motor in that the car wasn't designed to be driven like my 99 si. Not to mention quite a few times, when I was in traffic, I could see wisps of steam hitting the wind shield. The hood was always so damn hot.
The l15 always seemed to be struggling, I absolutely refused to throw a hondata on there. Needless to say, I traded it in for a fl5 type r and couldn't be happier. After a 6 hr. drive home from purchasing my type r, the hood was cold.
I understand this isn't an option for everyone, my suggestion is to get a low mileage older si that has a k-series engine if you plan on tuning it. This will cost less than a brand new si.
The l15 engine is a gas saver, it's not meant for tuning or even hard daily driving. Thanks for the video my guy, you solidified in my mind why I got rid of the car.
I’ve had a 2004 Lexus RX330 and daily driven it hard. The engine and transmission never skipped a beat. The 3MZ-FE is a V6 engine built for fuel economy but, can really take a beating. It’s pretty much just a piston in a cylinder compared to those new fangled turbocharged and downsized engines with questionable reliability. The 2GR-FE is more powerful, more efficient, and reliable than the 3MZ engine. For the price of a new Civic SI, you could pickup a used V6 Toyota Camry or V6 Honda Accord. Mash on it to your hearts content as long as you change the oil every 5k miles and ATF every 100k miles, you will never have problems.
@@davidperry4013 I agree! I have told several people to get a v6 accord instead of getting an si. It has way more hp and torque anyway. The only issue with the camry is the transmission. Guys who want an si, want a manual transmission, and they don't make camrys in stick anymore.
The 2.0t accord is also another option, since is also comes in manual, and essentially has a detuned k20 type r engine.
If a person is really bent on getting an si, I recommend they get one of the older models that comes with a k20 or k24.
The l15 engine is just absolute trash, even the old school d-series motors are better than the l15.
My 2018 Honda Accord 1.5 Turbo is now 155,000 miles and I don't have any serious problems. I am a daily commuter of 80 miles for 5 years and still counting. Maybe it all depends on how the drivers use and abuse of the car.
Literally this, these drivers redline & expect nothing bad to happen...
Living on borrowed time
@@Xernive "Literally this, these drivers *redline & expect nothing bad to happen* ..." It is in a Civic Si after all. OK, the 8th-gen Si never had shift lights, but the 8th-gen Civic Type Rs had shift lights as standard and back then the Si and Type R were much closer to being the same car. 9th-gen Si had shift lights. 10th-gen Si had virtual shift lights in the digital dash. The 11th-gen Si with the L15 has physical LED shift lights again in the Canadian model too.
I have a 2022 accord. I leave it in economy mode and I never really get it over 3000 RPM.
It's nice to know that the rod bolts in Honda's new 200HP performance engines are thinner than the rod bolts in my 3HP Harbor Freight water pump. Nice job Honda! 👍
It's *not* a performance engine though? Why would anyone think that a Honda Fit engine with a turbo on it, is a performance engine? 🙂This all seems to precipitated from a misunderstanding about the eco-turbo engine, when the same motorists would probably be perfectly happy if they chose an appropriate engine like the K20C, J30AT (TLX Type S engine) or JNC1 (NSX engine).
@tassielorenzo7070 because it's sold in the CIVIC SI! Si civics used to come with excellent B16 and K20 engines that were overengineered and would could easily double their output on stock internals. It's not like this is a base model engine. Honda are being cheapasses and instead of putting in a detuned k20c1 in, they put a shit tier economy engine. People are right to be annoyed.
@@TheBongoman47 🤔 Good points. Possibly for CAFE reasons they don't want to put such an inefficient engine in so many cars anymore. By comparison, the Integra Type S and Civic Type R are low volume so they don't affect Honda's CAFE MPG for passenger cars so much. But then you can say "but Subaru can do it", they have the inefficient FA24 in the BRZ (now just as good as any K24?) and the inefficient FA24DIT in the WRX and that seems to be fine. I dunno.
@@TassieLorenzo Right, but at least in the real world, the K series engines aren't inefficient. I can't speak for the efficiency of the L15, but I have yet to average less than 40 MPG from my K24A2 swapped 7th gen Civic. In fact, I averaged 44 MPG last tank and I haven't even started tuning it for fuel efficiency yet other than my taller 5th and 6th gears. Somehow I doubt that the L15's are significantly beating that efficiency in the real world, but maybe they do in EPA testing.
@@averyalexander2303 40 UK(?) MPG (7L/100km)! Do you have the Accord/TSX gearbox with the longer ratios? I have the Type R close ratio gearbox (3500rpm @ 110kph) and never get better than 28 UK MPG / 23.5 US MPG (10L/100km) with my K20Z4. I don't care, it's fine, I like how it doesn't vary whether or not you drive it hard, unlike a turbo car where you can literally see the fuel gauge going down in the canyons...
Not being ideal for racing does not make it "the worst engine Honda ever built". Proper maintenance and conservative driving habits its as reliable as anything Honda has ever built. They did have some issues with fuel dilution, and I'll agree if you want to race something this is not the engine you want to use, but as a stock, daily driver it's a good motor. I have a 2019 CRV with 100,000 miles on it and have had 0 problems out of it, nothing but standard maintenance. I did see some rising oil levels due to fuel dilution, but switching to super fuel has stopped that. Runs great and gets great gas mileage. The CVT gives me some concerns, but I've saw plenty of these transmissions with 200,000+ miles. You just have to take care of it. Racing is not taking care of it. Not a knock on your video, just found it a bit misleading.
What is super fuel?
@@mvgamer9637 93 octane
did you even watch the video? go back and watch the last minute he basically says the same thing where if you are just using it as a daily economy car it’s just fine
@@zander2541 Then what's up with the misleading video title??
@@stephenhood2948 read his name dude, if you watched more than 1 second of the video before commenting youd realize he was talking about for racing applications and building them, he also talked about how it was built with economy in mind and not performance and says its a perfectly fine motor in that regard
So it’s a good reliable engine. What you are complaining about is that you can’t use the engine above 400whp. It is what it is my friend. Over all the car is awesome. With proper maintenance (even increased (more oil chgs) oil chgs) this engine is awesome and economical.
Reliability is affected. If all you got from what he was pointing out was making more power with it, then you are lost. The issue is all these weak points Honda created will be big failure points that will cost the consumer lots of money to repair. Idk about you, but I don't want to deal with weak rod bolts and skinny journals on my crank. That's the biggest issue with Subaru's. You can't do anything about poor engine design. There's no excuse!! You can't outbuild a shitty engine design.
@@SuperSmoovy weakest point is cvt. Cvt is only for 100hp….but Honda somehow engineered another 92hp for 192…the engine is designed to work in a narrow power band…I owned one and it was out standing. It was plenty fast and zero issues. It does require a lot of maintenance but if you keep up it’s great. Yes I totally get what you are saying but I hope you get what I am saying….
I bought a salvage 2017 Si, I had to replace the engine, I put a junkyard L15 in it and it's been fantastic. I won't tune it because replacing the clutch with something satisfactory is so difficult. Several of my friends and I have agreed Honda engineered the 10gen to very small margins..a tune is really pushing the envelope.
Not for the K20s, they take on tunes pretty well
So basically the L series is for economy not maximum performance. Just keep it stock. If you want performance get a K. This is like someone trying to race a hf motor. Not the point of that motor at all. Or when people threw turbos on stock B18 LS or B20 and were surprised it blew and reved it beyond it was supposed to. No brainer.
Damn...as a 10th gen Si owner this hurts to watch lmao. Prior to watching this I had planned on ordering Ktuner v1.2, MAPperformance downpipe, and a PRL intercooler next week. Now, I'm thinking less mods and selling the whole disaster to carmax and buying a 9th gen like I should have initially. So thankful I found this video when I did, thank you for posting this gem.
Just being honest with you get a 8th or 9th. Not worth the headache bro
man i drove a fbo 10th gen its fast and the turbo noises are cool but it really cant beat the noise and feel of my 8th gen
I ended up selling my 2019 civic si and I’m looking to get an 8th gen si or s2000.
That's all bullshit. The L15B7 doesn't really start to have bottom end issues until around 475-500+ WHP. You'll have absolutely zero issues with everything you wanna do up to that. Watch some people that actually build these motors and push these numbers on the regular. If you're that worried, and wanna push up the HP numbers, you can bulletproof these motors no problem with new I-beam forged rods, pistons, sleeves, etc.
@@BigBear-- the second you do all that the oil pump calls it quits gnades the engine! So to add make sure you got one of those upgraded pumps out there. lol my engine no matter how much i upgrade its still going to redline at 6500rpm. It wont ever go to 8k anyways. Though if it was meant to then I'm certain they wouldn't have used this build. The thing is even the fuel system starts to need upgrading once you reach that threshold and it just so happens that threshold is at the same ball park as when he saying the engine starts to see problems. To me that sounds like The fueling issues are no mistake...Kinda a road block to not send it to hard!
Honestly if you want 800hp clearly this isn't the engine to go with. But, it's far from the worst Honda engine and plenty of owners can vouch for that.
Agreed.
What would a worse honda engine be? As far as i know most are more reliable. The only people i really see defending it are the people that own one and cant get out of it. I took the same L most people took and bought this car. Just warning others
@@Alexbuilt h series engines were pretty dog water. People praise them but they were always snapping rods. Really most of them were bad besides the f series and k's. Also the engine you built for your customer failed so could've been a operator error
@@cryxbaby2250 how were h series engines dog water. They have tons of potential and are currently in the 7s. Just because some people didnt like them doesnt mean it wasnt a well designed engine. Matter a fact its a excellent engine
@@cryxbaby2250 H series dog water? Are you on crack? D series, J series, F series, B series and K series all great platforms. The L series just suck ass, even in the new 11th gen, they're causing alot of problems.
I don't disagree with anything in this video. The comparisons are spot on. Honda obviously wanted to reduce mass and skimped where they could for fuel economy. But... A company I have an interest in does document oriented courier work. There are 6 Honda CR-V's that are 2017 and 2018 models. They will haul 10 to 20 document boxes to and from various places all over the state for legal and financial firms. Each have a custom Hondata tune oriented around fuel economy. They run 93 octane and get synthetic oil changes directly from the dealer. The CVT gets Amsoil every 30k to 40k. No major issues and they range from 150k to 250k miles. Granted, they are almost exclusively highway miles, but for average use, I think the design is fine. But I 100% agree that tuning these engines is a fools errand.
I think CR-Vs only got the L15 turbo from 2019 and above. Those CR-Vs in 2017 and 2018 still use the K24 albeit a more modern version.
@@ChrisRobato Correct. The 1.5 turbo was put in CR-V's starting in 2019. Not sure, but I thought the base LX trim for that year still retained the K-series 2.4 but I could be mistaken. I was looking to purchase a Touring trim but the fuel leak-down issue at that time was worrisome (plenty of media coverage) and the manufacturer response was simply to change the oil every month. Not good enough, so I bought something else. At the same time, my son was looking to buy a new Civic. I warned him against getting the L-series 1.5 turbo. He ended up buying an LX and got the much better K-series 2.0 (non-turbo).
The engine is great with following driving recommendations:
1. Change oil every 8k miles. Ideally Honda Type 2.0 0W20 or any other oil with API SN Plus, API SP specification.
2. Let the engine warm up, don't push it. You will have LSPI due to direct injection which is leading to head gasket failure.
3. Drive it like a NA engine, so not much boost below 2500/3000 rpm and shift depending on the situation at 2-2500 rpm. Don't go full throttle at 1500rpm often.
4. This engine has a lot of torque (compared to D16, R18, R20, B16, B18 ones), no need to push it hard in low rpms. Watch the turbo gauge, only use 3-4 bars maximum at warmed engine.
5. Use premium fuel (atleast 91+ octane).
6. Tune to maximum 220hp.
How could I get an L15 to atleast 200hp?
@@yoandry007 ecu tuning
@@1GTASANANDREASCJ So with a tune I could get my ge8 fit to 200hp and run it reliably?
@@1GTASANANDREASCJ without turbo?
@@yoandry007 you need of course the turbo version which comes standard with atleast 174hp.
I don't think that you can reach above 150hp with an ecu tune in the NA L15.
You mentioned the head gasket issue on this engine. I noticed the open deck design on the block has slots/slits between the cylinders 01:05. That was a similar design choice that Ford used on their Ecoboost engines before they had the coolant intrusion issues and then redesigned some of the Ecoboost blocks with solid sealing surface instead.
Solid surface is definitely better. Sad honda did this
Yeah, that's not enough surface area to prevent blowing head gaskets between the cylinders.
The D and even B series had open decks too. Heck, a lot of Porsches are even open, when they're feeling cheap and cheesy (which is way too often, given their pricing). It can be done right, but it's usually a bad sign.
@@JETZcorp open deck is okay in some applications such as D and B, but the slits between cylinders is a known failure point in forced induction applications.
People have been making 700+ on open deck engines for years now. N54 bmw engines repeatedly hold 600hp on stock everything, and the open deck block has been taken to 1000 hp. I will say they went with a closed deck design for the b58.
Can't out-build a shitty engine design. I was a huge Honda enthusiast but i cant get past how they outdid nissan with the skimpy engine design.
Probably the worst engine ever made by honda for "tuners", maybe, but probably the best engine made by honda for " normal" users, (probably the 98% of them). I have had three honda cars, 4 honda bikes, and my lawnmover is a honda also. I own a 1.5T civic, and i´m very happy with it, very powerfull, and very low consumption for the power. You couldn´t expect in the past to have a 182 CV car with this fuel consumption.
Don´t expect "robust" engines from any manufacturer in the future they can´t comply with the new "rule" that is the fuel economy, low emissions, etc etc... Keep your K20 engines!
Thanks for the video
Unfortunately with emission standard becoming more strict. Companies are designing engines more for fuel economy and emission while sacrificing other aspects.
Those small safety margins are pretty disappointing, especially for something designed for a sporty car Honda knew people were going to modify and drive hard. I'm not seeing the advantage of this engine over the older ones either. If they were actually significantly more fuel efficient maybe I could accept the reduced durability as an unavoidable trade off, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm getting 40+ MPG out of my K24A2 swapped 04 Civic with the same or more power, no turbo lag, proven reliability, and huge tuning potential, so I fail to see how this is an improvement in any way other than probably being cheaper to manufacture and slightly lighter.
Honda was forced to design their cars with the EPA fuel economy formula in mind. One of the problems with the formula is that it takes into account the size of the vehicle, basically the bigger the car the lower the mileage requirements, it’s why we don’t have small trucks anymore. Then I think there’s a displacement part to the formula too, anyways I suspect they were wanting to meet the demands of the consumer while meeting fuel economy standards… so we get this crappy thing in the end that looks sporty.
@@Kennys_World I agree. It's completely ridiculous how we use increasingly giant cars and trucks as the "solution" to efficient and environmentally friendly transportation and even more ridiculous that the EPA has been allowing this to go on for decades under multiple administrations instead of simply revising their formula to favor smaller and lighter vehicles for actual improvements in efficiency and emissions.
I would have to disagree about Honda or anyone else building a car with expectation that buyers will modify the engine.
@@cabojacks5106 I never said they should build the engine to be modded, I just said that I don't see any benefit of this engine over the K series. Also, right, wrong, or indifferent, a lot of people who buy cars like Civic Si's are going to modify them and manufacturers know it. It's definitely not the fault of the manufacturer if someone causes a problem by modifying something, but when a manufacturer installs an engine with such little tuning potential compared to previous engines in an enthusiast model, people aren't going to be thrilled with that, especially since there's no major benefit to the customer that I'm seeing.
emissions and they didn’t want to put the high compression k series in a civic that had to be buffed up to accord size for safety.
In regards to oil viscosity, I think you’re wrong. The reason for the thin lightweight oil is for café economy standards. I have a 2 L turbo in my Acura RDX. I also have a MDX that has a 3.5 L both of the cars I run mobil 1 0/40. I also run very short oil changes of 3000 miles oil and filter all these new direct injected engines have oil fuel delusion issues which intern you lose viscosity another reason why to run zero40.
I agree the rotating assembly is pretty tiny. That being said my stock l15a has 318k miles as of this post. No issues other than an alternator failure and bad coil pack.
My touring blew up at 200k Modified and tuned for most of that 100k and up. I drove the car so hard too, it finally gave in but i was impressed. Had fun to! fast forward a yr or so and my cvt blew at 235k. Ive since replaced them both but watching this is not a fun time lol. I love the 10th gens but he makes clear and good argument . Sir thank you for your effort in explaining this in these ways. The comparisons are perfect ! Very well done .., ty
My stock L15A1 (on a GD3 Jazz) is only pushing about 280k KMs (not sure how many miles that is), but I needed to change my gearbox (manual 5 speed), and a collapsed catalytic converter, and lower control arms (one of the lower ball joints was loose), and the engine is still as strong as ever... At this rate, I'll probably have to replace everything else in my Jazz before I have to recondition anything engine related... I probably don't know any better, since this is my first car, but I absolutely adore this little thing, I've driven pickup trucks that are faster. Yet, compared to most cars I've driven, my Jazz feels more engaging to drive, even as tired as mine is... Go figure...
@@xTWISTED_WAYZx what torque and HP your car got on a CVT? Btw, a tuned car with that mileage is well served.
@khoadinh4120 Yeah, it's been good to me. I don't mind the work but if your not inclined to repair it yourself then I'd caution against the tuning and modifications.
The car was never dyno'd and was tuned with an Etune, which leaves you with a good running vehicle, yes. But you don't get all that data you would from say a dyno tune. Guessing wise and based off others with similar parts and from the same tuner, I think it was closer to that 280/300 hp line, i was pretty maxed out with my fuel system.
So the tune has 3 stages of settings. The turbo psi being the difference in those settings I believe. So, I drove it mainly on #1 the lowest of psi, with an upgraded turbo of course. I would play around with #2 settings and it felt good, #3 would have me laughing and kinda to that point like " wow, I shouldn't probably be driving it much at that setting." That could of just been me though. The Hp and torque, I'm guessing was 280 to 300. I was close to my fuel systems max and my tranny was too based off the heat gen.
If you have driven a car for this long and this far, you monitored it stock and tuned, you know the different data points well enough. I can tell based off my heat generation within the cvt if I got more room or not. It didn't, but it did not overheat if I knew when I could push it. And when not to.
It's funny because you work so hard fighting the engine heat soaking, new fmic allows you that head room, turbo blankets help to minimize that radiant heat build up, but that whole time the heat starts to shift from a problem in engine heat soaking and now it's heat build up in the tranny fluid lol. It's like you trade it off , but thats just how I felt.
@@xTWISTED_WAYZx oh wow, that's a lot of information to know. Thanks for sharing mate.
Yeah-
I was just looking at a clean 2018 Honda Accord,
With 105k miles.
It drove ok, lots of road noise, but I wanted to do some independent research on the 1.5L turbo, because as we know, when you purchase a used vehicle & drive away, you only relying on the known reliability of the engine & transmission based upon historical data & reliability reported from other owners.
So I was hopeful since it was a Honda, it would be an easy decision, but my research last day or so, has educated me to avoid the 1.5 turbo at all costs.
I hear the 2.0 is a decent engine, so still considering a Honda,
If I can find a clean 2.0
Get you a lexus LS600hL. It’s older, cheaper and a much better car.
Mines been alive 146k and fbo the longest time tuning is everything but don't expect a monster power house or something that'll run great track times. These engines are more for roll racing and tracks. I definitely wouldn't waste money trying to go over 330whp. All those parts are just made cheap and mass produced
This engine was made to be cheap and fail around 250 k. It is made to fail. Honda wants profits everyone in the board of directors were celebrating the success . The issue is that they destroy the image Honda had . Eventually this will reflect in sales. This motor will be discontinued eventually .
With a bore that small, I'd also be concerned about the cylinder and chamber sides shrouding the valves, impairing flow. Makes me think just doing a K20C swap is a better move.
The more you show and explain, the more I become convinced that you either leave it stock or K20C swap. Even an Accord version you'll start with a lot more power than the 1.5T
Think about a production cost and economy of those engines. K20 is not a cheap engine. And its also not a economic engine. Because it is designed for durability. Not hating on k20s, who does not like them, just cannot compare those two. Its like comparing them for fuel economy and hating on k20
@garage5125 while you make valid points, the K20 and K24 are pretty fuel efficient in normal driving, don't have oil dilution problems, last longer, more responsive and easier to maintain.
@@vanhasydan4754 the k20 is definitely a better engine overall, but it kind of is a better hope so situation when you look onto the production cost. yes, i would also preffer it for its repairability, power (capability) simplicity and most importantly for NOT using direct injection. and even for a person, that uses like 40 hp max and drives his car 90 kilometers per hour on good road, i would still recommend them the k20, for using intake manifold fuel injection, because direct injection brings nothing but problems and working on it and repairing it is a pig. but i would not call this the worst engine when we know directly injected n63s that are so much worse and also cost more than the entire honda car (but still cheaper than paying someone to replace one small valvetrain component as you have to take the engine out of the car and disassemble it completely). so for normal owner those are actually pretty reliable considering they are direct injection engines, and if you like to revv the guts out of your car, get some used k20😂🤣🤣
Needed to hear this. Thank you. Started adding some light mods and a tune for about 1000 miles and the engine is messed up in the bottom end. It JUST broke 40K not to long ago and it's really just sad. Wish i saw this a month ago lol.
Would blame bad tuning.
@@allyance8846 it was probably a miss shift but it was done over a month before the engine decided to give out. she got fully replaced with warranty and even got a new RV6 Catted DP/FP so she’s in better shape now lol. I have a couple of other mods coming in so I still have my project, thank god.
@@bankieishere6577 nice to know!
Damn man coming from a background years ago machining LS one engines , mostly V-8 stuff - the points u are making this video are spot on I’ve honestly been looking at the GR Corolla the WRX 2022 and up and a Honda civic SI just for something with a six speed manual and I tell you the production problems that Subaru is having the problems in general with direct injection motors on all turbos nowadays it’s really hard to get excited about buying a performance car these days that’s not a V-8
I believe you are on to something. Honda has already pushed a recall for the 2017-2020 CR-V's with the L15BE (1.5t engine). The Accord 2017-2022 (1.5t), and Accord 2023-present (1.5t non-hybrids), 2017-2022 Honda CR-V, and 2023-current Honda CR-V's use this engine still. Honda says they have corrected the issue in newer versions of the L15BE. But if there are issues with the engine NA, just imagine throwing a Turbo on it will just shorten the life of the engine even more.
If the customer changes the oil at ever 5k miles that seems to be a good idea anyways but may mitigate some of the oil dilution issues seen. But I highly doubt these engines are good up past 150k, due to adding the turbo to them. The added heat alone will shorten the lifespan of a really well engineered engine. So I seriously doubt someone buying a 1.5t Honda engine expect it to go 200k plus. Most owners are good if they can get over 120k out of a stock engine and transmission when a turbo is involved.
On the recall Honda has issued a limited warranty on those parts, nothing sizeable to make customer feel like Honda is going above and beyond. I wonder how many customers saw failure of their L15BE outside of the factory warranty, paid a pretty penny to get them repaired before Honda did the recall. I think we would call the ex-Honda customers. Don't get me wrong I have had really good Honda's, and this video just drives home the need to stay away from any of the 1.5t engines from Honda.
Also I am choosing to go with a 10th gen 2.0t Accord as my next car. Very similar built engine to the Type-R, but not same internals or Turbo. Also the 11th gen Accord is a dud to me.
Thanks for the video.
What recall are you talking about? I can't find anything for 2017-2020 CR-V's related to the engine.
Your assessment and OPINION as well as your experiences of these engines and there potential failure points when TUNED is pretty on point and great advice. As a 22 year Honda tech I have seen all the failures I think, but the most common on these 1.5's are head gaskets and that's a stock config. These things were over engineered for the least amount of friction and weight as possible to get good fuel economy, that's why when its -30 out they never warm up as there's no friction in these things. I beat the hell out of my B16a and had zero issues, I also have an 18 Si and drive it hard as well and no issues but i suspect i might seeing the current trend, and no I have no intentions of modding it.
The only thing i disagree after watching this is you comparison between the L15, K series and B series... they are three totally different engines in all aspects, so comparing the con rod bolts and head bolts is the same as me comparing con rod bolts from my 01 Insight to my friend 94 Mustang, makes no sense. I never noticed the oil galleys on the cranks as I have not had to pull one yet but that's interesting.
Every Honda engine has its faults that could be considered the worst, but I am getting rich on timing chains in K series that's for sure and I think that's the worst engine IMOP but the best for mods by far like you describe. . Best engine for reliability and lack of any issues of any kind for me would be the 1.8 SOHC(06-15 Civics's ) and the B16 series
:) Thanks for the breakdown
It's mostly chains on the k24 engines right? VTC rattle messing them up you think?
@@nateTrh chain wear, crappy OE tensioners and weak VTC gears but mostly due to lack of oil changes, and that’s if there not burning oil , again due to crappy gas and dirty oil
The L15B is a economy crossover appliance engine Honda slapped in their Civic Si to save development costs. What is marginal at best in a CRV doesn't cut the mustard in a car that has had excellent engines that respond great to modifications for over 30 years. In addition to the plethora of mechanical design flaws, the L15B just has no character and is such a disappointment from a company that produced stellar engines not even 15 years ago.
Mine has about 148K miles never had the long block open but I've finally starting to have a head gasket leak. Tuned FBO from 68k miles to 128k miles. Then I went big turbo up until now. Have a small coolant leak in the cylinder
You referenced GTI engines. The AE888.3 and .4 can reliably hold 450-550whp. You’ll have clutchpack issues well before piston/rod issues. I put 70k miles on mine (Audi a3 Quattro) at ~500whp with no issues. Would do mid 10s in the rain, and is still on the road with this setup at 150m miles.
AE888 ❤❤❤
Lucky you and I hope it will stay that way ... My 2019 Ea888 was a disaster, @50k miles maintained at dealership every 6 k, had turbo failed, MAP sensor failed, warped front axles, failed diverter valve, failed EGR valve, replaced awd rear axle bushings ... and I traded it for a Civic SI new, hopefully this one will be better
Could it be that it’s as simple as this motor is intended to be lower reving as a design principle. Basically, if you’re looking to do 2.5x the power output that stock produces, then you’re just asking for reliability issues.
It’s not a bad motor, it’s a stupid modification plan.
I think it's pretty bad they are blowing up stock.
@@Alexbuilt - cite where. I’ve not seen anything about this motor except for the oil dilution problem and the assertions that Honda seemed to fix that issue.
@@stms4411 search any tenth gen fourm. I have a pile of broken l15s. The worst is the older people with stock cvt ones. Feel bad they thought they bought something reliable just to snap a rod
@@Alexbuilt and yet you don’t cite even one…..calling BS
@@stms4411 idk how to link Facebook group into here. Your an adult. You can easily search it. I dont need to hold your hand to do that.
Good info. Like you said, the entire engine is built around fuel economy. Less recropicating mass and less overall weight.
In your opinion, what is a safe max torque from the K20C4 for longevity? The difference in rods is night and day, but trying to put it into perspective.
For a k20c4 would be the same as a k20c1. Around 400tq would be the max. Also depends how it comes in. A stock turbo maxed out will bend rods faster then a big turbo with more tq on the top end of the rev range
Well… my wifes SI is at 130k miles with stock internals and just shy of 400WHP. No engine issues yet 🤷🏻♂️
Wat year?
@@chorizojuice2018. She is very particular about the way she drives her car and doesn’t beat on it very much either though, she takes great care of it so i do believe it has everything to do with how she cares for her car
I think its more driver damage. Its a fuel economy commuter.
I would like to testify to my many problems encountered with my Civic 2020 Sport Plus with the 1.5T L15BA engine in France. I bought this car new in February 2020 with 0km. Currently I have 20000km (12500 miles). According to Honda France, my Civic was not affected by the fuel pump problem but unfortunately no brand recall. And indeed I had power loss and idle problems. The pump had to be changed at 16,000 km (10,000 miles). I'm not talking about paint problems on a rally red on the rear bumper. But even more serious when I realized a little late that my Civic was drinking coolant. The maintenance garage didn't know where it was going. So we were regularly filling up the expansion tank, until one summer day this year when it was particularly very very hot, the Civic found itself in extreme engine overheating. The Civic had starting problems and seemed to run on 2 or 3 cylinders. The garage still did not ask questions, despite my concerns. So he refueled and 500km (300 miles) later, the jar was empty again. The garage therefore decides to open the engine in 2 and was able to see that my cylinder head had a big molding problem from the factory. So since buying my Civic, my 1.5T engine was drinking coolant through cylinder 2 and smoking white out the exhaust. The cylinder head had to be changed at 19500km (12200 miles). Since the idle is not terrible and I like tremors in the engine. Unfortunately, I no longer trust this car and Honda. I have problems reselling it because of this defect and Honda France doesn't care !
I HAD THE SAME ISSUE
"big molding problem from the factory"
This is a manufacture problem, not engine problem.
At 4:35, "let's say you're making 600, 700, 800 horsepower then this crank is really not going to be happy". Ya, you're right, terrible engine then, worst Honda engine ever made, now I know.
I really enjoy it as a daily driver. Ill just stick to efficiency mods. Intercooler, intercooler pipes, maybe a few others.
But its fantastic stock.
Very informative video.
Sounds like they took 4 predator 212 motors and strapped em together with a turbo.
Not from what I’ve heard. accord 1.5 owners have head gasket issues before 100k. Normal driving.
Just wait when you hit 100000 miles
I am very glad that I kept my 11th gen Si stock drivetrain. Ran almost 30 track days and 30k street miles with my stock L15 w/o problem. Key was ester based engine oil.
Several folks with stock cars and engine oil blew on tracks.
Bro speaking facts I blew up
At 320 within a year of having the tune, rods on cylinder 1, 3 and 4 gave out mid pull completely coming out of the block, these engines are for sure not meant to hold power
What tune?
Si? Hatch? Sport what kinda car?
@@repinrs His name is Slow_hatchback so my guess is hatchback. Those have weaker rods than the non si sedan and si.
320hp and 380wtq for sure
You dumbass of course it'll let go at those numbers genius
Damn I have an 11th gen Si and yeah it was very hard for me to decide which car to get because of the specs.
My first car was a 2007 Toyota Corolla S and I always wanted to drive manual (Mind you I'm 21). Being that I also wanted to build my credit more besides just using credit cards, I figured getting a new car would be best for me to do that so that's why I then even looked into new cars. I had my eyes on the 10th & 11th gen Si and the 2022 GR86/BRZ. I saw and heard how I believe it was Hondata made a video comparing the regular 11th gen civic and 11th gen Si and after watching your video. It totally makes sense how the Si is legit the same engine but before they put it in, they just change the tune so it ends up being the same either ways. I do/don't regret getting my Si let's say over the regular 11th gen civic or the other cars just because I bought it knowing I'm going to keep it stock, good on gas, turbo'd, and again it's manual. So as a daily standpoint I can't complain which you were right about from the beginning if that is what you plan on doing with the car anyways. TBH, it's not like I ever race anyone either (like as if anyone even tries to race me lol which they don't and don't blame them since I'm slow). I just liked the fact that I can have fun on backroads and stuff like that so.
If it was that I wanted to build a street car, I've always had my eyes on the 2008 Civic Si's or the 2006 RSX Type-S's just bc of the K20's but for the sake of wanting to build credit, I figured sure I'll just get a newer car. Besides Honda's hold their value so I'm sure I'll get a decent return for when I sell it down the road so that if anything, I can always buy one of those cars I mentioned with cash and build it.
But I appreciate the information, very informative, and would highly recommend anyone reading this that if you're going to be buying/getting a new car for yourself (old/new), buy it because you like it and that it makes sense for you. Just make sure you set the right intentions for yourself about the car like what's it for (Race? Street? Dailly? All-around?), budget, and etc,.
What's been changing for the last several years is a shift to more performant engines from the factory. It used to be the case that you could take B series, K series, 2JZ, and many other engines and get heaps more power if you knew what you were doing. The push for better fuel economy, lower emissions and high-performance variants of popular models means that more of that tuning is being done from the factory.
So, you are correct. This engine has a hell of a lot less TUNING potential, but these modern engines perform way better than anything used to in stock form. There's tons of professional engineers putting their time into making engines with great low-end torque and operating at the upper end of safe limits. We're in a time period where a 1.6L, 3 cylinder toyota engine makes 300 HP in stock form. You cannot have those kinds of numbers and still expect tons of tuning potential with any sort of reliability.
I'd also point out that this engine is far from the worst compared to other manufacturers (VW and Subaru would like a word with their turbo engines), or even examples like the Honda 2.4.
250k on my '17 1.5 , replaced the turbo at 200k. Never had engine problems but did go through service for AC a few times.
Looks like Honda hired Chrysler engineers to make this for them! I was thinking about getting an SI but as a mechanic there’s no way I’d want to buy a car that has such a poorly designed engine. Even under normal use there’s some people reporting head gasket failures. I’m gonna keep my slow ass Corolla
The old Turbo 2.2's and the 2.0/2.4 were WAY beefier than these ever could hope to be. Sure everything around them fell apart, but the engines were good, save for the occasional head gasket in the time before MLS head gaskets became a thing.
Bros actually upset that the 1.5 4 banger blew up at 800 hp... lmaoo
The motor is fine for what it is out of the box as long as you have the willpower to leave it alone. Honda, or any car company for that matter is never going to put out something this day in age of slim-margin design that you can get blood from a stone on. You want something faster, save your clams for something else that's built for that.
I don't think it's. Fine for what it is if it blows up stock. But to each their own
Trying to get 500 hp out of 90 cubin inches, that's funny right there, and without even studying the engine first. Open deck block- Check, Skinny rod bolts- Check, Tiny crank journals- Check. Yup, everything you need to blow up real good.
I wish there was a video like this made by an actual honda engineer. I would prefer to hear opinions based on knowing the reasons for development of this engine and that can only be had by someone who worked at Honda. This guy obviously knows what he's talking about, but his world of experience isnt in the development or testing phases; its based solely in building up stock engines, and seeing how much abuse they can handle. Thats a different world of experience and Ive heard many smart, knowledgeable people apologize for being wrong when they turn their expertise from one field, to another. He probably knows more than honda engineers about tuning and modifying their engines, but he definitely isnt the equal of a honda engineer. Id be careful accepting his observations as fact. In the end, any company can produce a faulty, short lived engine, no company is immune to this. However, I think the chances of that happening within Honda are the least among any company building cars today. Honda has always been an engine-designing company first, and a company that produces cars designed around that engine, second. The video author cant speak to the design process, metals/materials/alloys used, or theory behind this engine - all he has are observations based on modding experience, which is a limited experience at best. Its born in informal and undisciplined environments like a buddies garage, even when backed up by real education like wyotech, etc. Im not bashing the guy, his content, or guys getting together and tuning their rigs. Im merely saying be careful taking this as fact. It is not. Let the flaming begin I guess, I will ignore it.
I mean we know why everything was designed the way it was. The light weight rods for better fuel economy. The long stroke for better low end tq
Although i dont know the scientific make up of the metals the materials are stronger then before when it comes to the rods. You can see that everything is focused towards fuel economy with little room for performance in mind. Even the oiling system was designed with 0w20 in mind and nothing more then that. What makes this motor bad in my opinion even in stock form there is very little room for error. Over boost one time and the rod can come out the block. Thats the difference. To make a high reving naturally aspirated engine everything is over built to withstand high rpm for long duration. The l15 isnt anything more then a base civic engine with a slight tune before going into a civic si and thats what is irritating. Lets go back to the year 2000. You get a 2000 ex civic with a d16y8 or a 2000 si with a b16. That b16 is on another planet compared to the d16 and although you can build both in the end the b16 is a huge upgrade and has huge potential. For me its a shame that honda didnt even attempt to do something different for the civic si. Shit at minimum they could have put stronger rods and a better rod to stroke ratio since people will be modding the civic si vs the base. But they just pretty much threw the same engine in the si. Thats the disappointing part. They just dont care anymore and since the epa is pushing for better mpg they will do anything to try and reach it even if it means the integrity of the internals
maybe it's not engineer, it's marketing, and accounting. maybe they shift the MTTF toward somewhere. Honda want to survive , also fulfill their obligation to the share holder....
The good engines were all designed in the '90's when Honda and Japan were still walking tall. They sold those engines and variants for the next 15 years. The 1.5T is the result of taking the Fit engine and making is just strong enough to handle boost. The best engine today, the K20C1's are still just variants of the K series designed in the '90s.
@@quademasters249 they should have designed a different engine platform for the small turbo engines instead of using the L15 that engine for was designed for the insight and fit 20 years ago as a fuel sipper and nothing more. Honda hasn’t really designed a new engine platform in 20 years at all they have be selling is the same L K And J series these past few years it would be nice if the come out with something new like Toyota did wit the GR Yaris engine
@@RaffiJaharian Agreed. Probably won't happen though. They've already dipped their toes in the EV waters so ICE engine development is probably close to over.
There seems to be a lot of tuning on the LC15A DE4/FE1 and even stock it dyno'd to the wheels the marketed hp/tq, which I guess would make crank like 220/230? That seems pretty decent and fun to me stock at least. Do you think the people tuning successfully are outliers?
Very informative. In your opinion, how does this L15B7 compare to the L15CA engine in the 22 Civic Si?
Same thrash bro
Same engine, just set up a bit differently for different models of cars and specific version of the engine.
Damn bro I’m just back to say I’m shooting for 400whp now stock motor still. I really think just stock turbo and headbolts are really the only limiting factor of this engine. I’m literally smacking the rev limiter 7k daily almost to 100k miles now and no issues (other than transmission but now that’s ppg 1-4). 350 wtq at 2k rpm will kill these engines no doubt in my mind.330 wtq at 5k rpm it’ll live All day(w3 turbo) We’ll see tho I’ll forsure update if it explodes at 400whp
Lol
I’ve done my fair share of L15 head gaskets while working at Honda, and they weren’t even tuned. Ranging between 44k- 160k miles
Consumer reports seems to show a drastic reduction is engine problems starting in the 2020 model year. Do you agree from what you have seen? I'm looking at getting a 2023 Accord LX 1.5 and am hoping Honda has resolved the head gasket issue.
All these issues as well as Oil dilution happens when owner uses regular gas instead of premium
@@G16E-GTS_ not just that, the 1.5t does also have a crippling issue with the injectors as a whole. Their manufacturer Keihin, claims to have had a poor batch. Which is why V6’s have been hit hard, and again very similarly designed ones also used in their 4 cylinders. So pretty much they can potentially leak fuel into the cylinders alone even when using great fuel.
Thanks for posting this. Looking at getting a new civic, probably gonna go with the sport trim that has a k20c2 now instead of the l15.
its a good choice
I'm running mine with a 20 psi tune and an intake. Stock DP, stock everything else. I'm sad that the reliability is tossed out the window, but I hope to get 300,000 KMs and make it til 2030. Gas mileage is really good on it though, 5-6L/100KM on the highway. What's your thoughts on making these more reliable besides detuning? Would it be better to just never rev em out?
From what he is saying its probably better to put it back to stock and just drive it the way it originally was set up. I have a 2.0 NA and with a CVT and I get around 5-6L/100km if I'm extremely conservative. Honda really knows how to make gas sippers!
Keep the torque low. Most people say under 250, but I'm thinking 200 is a better number. If you want it to last forever, put it back to stock.
Would a tune count?
most of the problems come from tuning for power. It just wasn't designed to be boosted up. If kept stock, its gonna be fine. The non turbo version of the L15 on the Fit is super reliable.
My brother and I both drive L15B7 SI's (2019 and 2020) and haven't had any issues with delivering aftermarket performance. My 2019 has 103K on it at half stage (21 PSI) + Bolt ons (No intercooler or charge pipes) and his 2020 has 93K at stage 1 (26 PSI) and full bolt ons, including charge pipes. We don't race these cars on track often, but drive them hard on the road consistently and A LOT. I agree that sticking to K series would have been much better on the SI's but I do not think these specificL15's are bad engines for modding to stage 1/1.5ish power no problem. Now, the new 11th gen SI's (L15CA) have it much worse. Honda decided to make the rods even lighter for some reason and now those L15CA's are blowing up under stage 1 tunes and spirited driving. It seems that Honda needs to take a look at the aftermarket scene and realize most people aren't buying SI's to stay at stock power and make the engines accordingly, like they did on the k20 and k24.
Would love to see some sort of teardown and overview of the K20 C1 or C4. I was hoping to do a modern K series swap on one of my cars, but after seeing this, I'm a little skeptical of modern honda engines 😬
The C1 has been proven to hold way way more power than the L15. The rods and headstuds are thicker than the 1.5T by a long shot.
Breakdown coming soon
I Already bought c4 to do a swap in my 2022 si waiting to buy my type R trans
Taking a 9th gen or older and K swapping is a good plan. The K series engines are a great overall design with the only weakness being the chain tensioner which the performance aftermarket has the answer to.
@@vanhasydan4754 believe it or not the oem tensioner is great and in the drag racing world 8/7 sec cars 80-90 percent use oem tensioners and swap it out as necessary. The tensioner is actually a wear and tear item and thats why there is a little door on the timing cover to make swapping them out easy. For some reason people got the impres that it is lifetime and bashed honda after their tensioner goes bad at 150k
Mostly what’s recommended is inline pro or oem. Inline pro has a stronger spring and it wont go in as much as oem. But with good oil pressur both work great
Theres other companies that have dual ratcheting mechanisms that ive have personally seen break.
On my 1000whp awd civic i use oem and have no issues even past 10,000 rpm
Thank you for this video. I’ve been getting into automotive stuff a lot more and going real in depth with engine building and after watching this… I’m going to leave my 11th gen si stock and have fun shifting.
Yeah, remember you from Fred’s videos for his teal EG coupe. You DEFINITELY know your shit! My wife has an accord with THIS engine and STAYING bone stock FOR SURE. More a less watched for long term longevity thoughts and factory build quality or in this case lack of. Honda definitely not what they used to be. Thanks for video .
So you suggest getting the 2.0 over the 1.5 on the civics I’m indecisive at the moment.
what gen?
@@kuyaanthonyy 11th ?
I was wondering about how it could get such good economy. This answers it perfectly thanks!
10/10 explication. after watching this theres no way id buy any honda with an L15 in it
i had a 19 si around 350whp which is decent but not good by any standards. I sold that when i started realizing the cost to make it hold decent power. went coyote with boost after that and never looked back.
I bet that feels like a huge upgrade lol
@@Alexbuilt yeah about 400hp more and stock motor still
I’ve now had two friends lose head gaskets in these engines right around 90,000 miles. Used as grocery getting, taking the kids to soccer practice, vehicles.
L series is a Honda fit motor. The L15 in the latest civic si is a turbo fit motor. The reason why they switched the si to this was because the K series was way too costly to put into the civic si, yes I’m talking about the n/a k24z7 and k20z3, they screwed every si owner with a cheap alternate. You would think they would at least be courteous and give the latest si the accord 2.0T k series engine, but someone at Honda was a cheapo and decided to screw all their si buyers. The current si is not really a true si, it’s just a glorified ex/sport model. The proper engine would be the 2.0t from the Honda accord that they just discontinued. But even if they didn’t want to, at least do the integra with the 2.0t so it’s be like in the old days, when Acura would always get a one up on it’s Honda counterparts with the premium they charge
Welp I’m keeping mine stock. I’ve had my 2020 Si for almost 2 years and so far I’ve only put on Fortune Auto 510 coilovers. I don’t think I’ll touch the engine and just keep it a reliable daily.
Had mine for almost 5 years with zero issues.
This engine represents my issues with modern cars: they keep adding fancy shit that makes them less reliable and more expensive. The J and K series motors were arguably the most bulletproof combustion engines ever built. The J35 in my parents' old Honda has chugged on for 15 years and 250,000 miles without a single issue. Sure, it may not be as fast as it used to and it may need oil more often, but it still runs every single time.
Thanks for the breakdown. The new L15 is terrible, been telling this to numerous people for years. Honda made a mistake from getting away from the k series. Put it this way, no1 is doing an L15 motor swap into any car. It’s always a k series swap. Unfortunate how newbies defend this motor.
good K engines with the type R head by themselves are over 1500 dollars, and some people prolly can get an L15, with accessories and ECU for less. The reson ppl defend this motor is due to the fact that its cheap, available and everywhere.
Ngl, vw is on its way to make cheap engnies. the EA888 engine is just unbeatable when it comes to performance per dollar.
Honda had to move away from the k-series in certain parts of the world cause of emissions.
They should have kept the k series for the US market though.
@@molethan6138 they should have done what GM did and sell brand new crate engines for the tuning market
@@abadibi I think honda sells the K20C1 engine as a crate.
@@molethan6138 i wonder how long that will last
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I think this is one of those engines where Honda already maxed out with each spec to the Tee.
Not just the engine, the clutch pack is maxed out at the factory too.
Good opinionated review. So a sweet spot in between 200-300hp/tq may make more of a reliable daily. Will keep that in mind as that is what mine is to me (a fun dd ).
The only L15 forged crank I can find is from a company in China called KingTec. Some people have used their products and didn't have any issues with it. The problem is, they kept the stroke at 89.4mm. I am looking to build a NA GE Fit. I would be happy with 150HP to the wheels. I am going to strip some weight out of the car too. Honda Fit chassis are really well built, but the engine is a let down. The stiff chassis was really more for safety than motorsports. I guess the alternative is K swap, but K series engines and trans are getting quite expensive these days. Also, you rarely see anybody build the L15s. I wouldn't worry too much about the crank bearing oiling channels. It can be cut out easily. Also, I think with with Golden Eagle sleeves the bore can go up to 75mm. Rzcrew sells 75mm L15 forged pistons with different compression ratios. The highest is 15:1 compression ratios.
With all this said, what are you’re thoughts on the FK8 CTR motor
Stay tuned im going to be doing a break down video. Its definitely better then a l15
At 3:13 your buddy that had no oil pressure. Did his car started making rattling at the valves and when the oil pump failed did the car knock?
Question, what about the current K series, K20C1/C3/C4?
friend of mine called yesterday asking me to hear the noise her 2018 L15 turbo CRV is making and it sounds bad. it's just a stock commuter SUV at 89,XXX miles.
Doing God's work, here. Thanks for putting this information out there. Seems like the k20c2 is a much better choice, but I'm not sure how much is out there for forced induction. Sounds like a GTI is simply a better overall choice.
the L15 is good in the honda fit. you can keep it stock and the car weighs nothing. the motors happy at 130 hp
@@LMFAO5001 that's a complete different engine brother
So its good i can go ahead and buy the honda fit 2018 @Alexbuilt
@@Alexbuilt that’s what i said
Great video. Good for who wants to buy this engine and tune it up, so they don't do it. Knowing Honda past i don't believe anyone will have issues with stock configuration. Agree that in si versions is a weak engine
Oil dillusion problem with these is the bigger deal.
Not common, I have the same car 2020 and haven’t noticed any oil dilution. I’ve permed the car for almost a year now
The car is good for work and school that’s it. Lmao I bought the car thinking “awesome Honda made a turbo car from the factory and still keep the AC” lol performance wise it never met my expectations. I just bought me another 96 ek civic and a k24a2. I’m going to finish the payments on the 10th gen and trade in for a truck
Do the 2.0 non turbo Honda engine breakdown
Great video. What are your thoughts on the 2.0L NA engine, the K20C2 reliability? Any downsides to that engine? How about the K20C1/K20C8 used in the FL5 CTR or the DE5 Integra Type S in terms of longevity?
The K series is legendary for being bulletproof. It handles hundreds of thousands of miles and can withstand over 400hp without a rebuild.
@@gelatinous6915 any specific concerns with the K20C1 or K20C2?
Just in my area of SoCal I have at least 2 customers with L15 accords and 1 customer with an L15 civic non-si and they all 3 have around 180-230k miles with no major failures whatsoever.
Wow, I love this video since this guy actually took an L-series engine apart to explain its weaknesses. I don’t know why people are trying to mess around with this engine to add power. Honda clearly designed it for mostly fuel economy purposes. Lesson?
This engine was not designed to D!cking around with beyond factory settings.
The problem for me is that it's being put into the Si when Honda knows it's die-hard fans...
@@ftffighter yup, I’d rather a an updated high revving version of their Earth-Dreams K-series engine in that.
Honda by doing this will encourage tuners to not mess with your motors. Leave it stock and stop messing with their designs and everything will be fine. This will put tuners and tuning business guys out of business.
How do you feel about the 10th gen type r engine?
Comparable to other 2.0ts on the market. Its a decent engine for what it is.
I’ve worked for Honda for 2 years as a tech now I understand why the displacement so small for fuel economy now I know why these engine have way worse catastrophic failure than other Hondas I’ve seen
Wow! I was considering buying a 1.5 turbo civic here in the UK. I believe they are 180bhp here. I was hoping to keep the motor standard and have it remapped to about 200bhp but nothing else.
I think I might avoid this car now as it'll be my daily driver as I have my DC2-R as my weekend toy.
200hp won’t break anything you’ll be fine lol.
If u drive short distances, less then 30-40 min drive, a lot of cold starts then u gonna have oil dilution problem which I'm having... I've been a honda fun but this civic 10th is my last honda. I don't recommend you 1.5 T engine
I deferred from doing any big mods or the k tune. these engines are fragile I have 90k plus and no issues just driving it to work and back. these are not racecar engines already seen videos of the new Si and Integra blow engines just a few months getting them
Honda boxed Si owner in with the L15. Sad
You right Alex. Wow really good reasons. Darn those rod bolts and head bolts omg 😲 are so puny heck nah. Good thing I don't even like 10th or 11th gens. I'll buy up to the 8th gen civic that's it. To the k20z3 that's it or k24a2 tsx.
Eh I’ve been beating the 💩 out a big turbo l15 now for about a year came back to say the motors are STOUT. Just do headstuds and possibly get ready for injector change (300 bucks) sorry this video should be changed straight up bad tuning and a stock turbo will set you up for failure. No question no doubt.
If I end up getting one I guess I will be keeping it stock
Thanks for the heads up!!! I have an 11 gen si. I’ve been doing what I can to upgrade. First time experience for me. I’ve got the PRL, 27won bolt ons from charge pipes, intercooler, high volume outlet, down pipe, front pipe, short ram intake, Hondata race flash pro, rods, pistons, exhaust, and was about to get the turbo charger.
I guess my question is what’s too much to do? What’s needed for me to do at this point?
Damn bro you dumped all that money in to those parts and are still asking these questions?
I respect this explanation. You showed us and explained your thought process and the logic behind it. 400Z goals now!
Who's cross shopping an L15 and a 400Z lol
@@spoton3278 no one because it’s not called the 400Z…. 😂 it’s simply Called the Z
Choosing a dinky little engine with a turbocharger to make horse power over just using a beefier normally aspirated 2 liter was a huge mistake. I’m not a tuner and have no plans to mod my daily driver. I just want a dependable vehicle and Honda just lost my interest. I was looking at the CRV this year and went with a Toyota RAV4 because of this.
I have a 2021 Accord. 12k miles. Completely stock. I agree with you, this car will not be able to hold up to any mods. However, for what it is, it is a great engine. 40-44 mpg on NJ highways, big car, has enough torque and power to keep me on the side roads and highways. Honda did not build this car to produce more power. Everything is about average performance and good fuel economy. They nailed it. But yeah, don't go out and try to get 500 hp out of this engine. It will leave you stuck. Will mine last 200k? Hopefully, but those bolts........
The 1.5L engine being tiny is not the issue. The issue is the weak design, made to focus on fuel economy, not future higher hp applications, like the 2.0L Kseries, 1.6L Bseries, and the 1.6L G16E (hydrogen engine made to withstand extreme forces, used in the GR Corolla/Yaris)..
I wonder if the base NA K20C2 motor is a better platform to build on or is equally as weak as the L15B7. Would be interesting to see when you get your hands on the new L15C motors. See if they improved anything at all.
The k20c2 isn’t worth building you’re better off swapping a k20c1
@@Alexbuilt How can this be? Isn't the K20c2 a K20 engine? How is it the same as a L15?
@@dw8555 they are completely different. Must have read it wrong or responded to the wrong comment. The k20c2 is a better engine but has basically zero aftermarket support