A bit like the "interview" with Doc Mitchell at the beginning of New Vegas. He even gives us equipment depending on which skills we pick, explaining that was stuff we had on us when we were found. So the Courier has a backstory and a preexisting skillset.
@@atredfaolanconan exiles has you choose the reasons you are crucified, although it's not clear if you are guilty or not. It's strictly for flavour, though.
I think we already got an answer in game, it was for necrophilia. Not only does your character know the fine for the first offence, but they also know the punishment is more severe for re-offenders.
@@elvenatheart982There is a Dark Elf merchant in Skingrad that asks you if you know what the penalty for necrophilia is, and you can either choose to say that you don't know, or you can straight up answer (implying that the player knows from firsthand experience)...
Considering the jail cell had a skeleton but was otherwise clean my vote it was a "scared straight" situation where a misbehaving kid (who'd say, got in a drunken brawl the night before) was thrown in across the way from a foul mouthed prisoner to try and get him to see the error of his ways.
That sounds incredibly logical. The cell isn't usually used, the cell is clean, there is a skeleton in that hasn't been removed. All that hints to the fact that it's a setup.
I think it was illegal skooma smuggling in all games. They take the player character crossing the border and throw them in a cell. Then the game begins.
In the previous games youre just an imperial agent. The pretext is that the emperor can put you wherever he wants to. IE, you start on a prison ship in Morrowind but by direct orders from uriel septim. Youre also an agent for and apparent super close friend to Uriel in daggerfall as well. @@Sylvershade
I’d always assumed that “lesser men” referred to the emperor being Dragonborn, rather than societal status. Uriel and Martin were both descendants of the dragon blood after all, and from what we’ve seen in Skyrim, Dragonborn are capable of some pretty incredible things.
The Dragonborn in Skyrim isn't much different from the Imperial Dragonborn lineage. Imperials have the "Voice of the Emperor" power which is probably similar to dragon shouts in some lesser form, and is also likely the very same shout that were used to subjegate/calm the invading Akaviri warriors, leading into the formation of the OG Blades.
The whole dragon blood makes one think if the Dragonborn would be able to take on the throne. Especially since they personally kill the then current emperor for the Dark Brotherhood. And the possibility that Uriel Septim V. has descendents on Akavir
@@HappyBeezerStudiosTheir dragonblood is not necessary anymore though. Sure, it would be prestigious and a powerful tool of war but it does not give you a claim or right to rule.
@@muffinman2546dude Voice of the emperor is just talking like Capt. Picard! And yeah its charming Also beggars use the voice… hence the odd voice changes after giving coin
@@MLBeaton Holy shit I never thought about the idea of the beggar going from well spoken gentleman to limey guttersnipe after they get my gold was them using voice of the emperor. Mind blown.
As with all of the other games (except for Elder Scrolls: Redguard), I don't think a single detail about the player character's backstory before the start of the game is set in stone. Bethesda made it intentionally ambiguous so that the player could write their own backstory, not hunt for answers that were never intended to exist. But that's just one eldritch horror's opinion.
Other than the fact that Bethesda literally said exactly what you just said, it's also pretty obvious because that was cool at the time (and still is, dammit) The only point of this video is fun speculation. Also obvious because that's what is cool at this time.
Iirc in the Arena the character is in the court of the emperor, and in Daggerfall they're supposed to be good friends with them, but that's as much detail as they'd ever get into
Seeing as the Emperor can partly see your fate, he says your crime is not what you will be remembered for. If you didn’t commit a crime and were falsely imprisoned, I would think he would know you were innocent of any wrongdoing and not say that
Or maybe he meant "don't waste your time trying to dig up your past, it's the future that matters." Even knowledge of innocence would lead to a rabbithole of investigation if left unchecked.
"Stand up... there you go. You were dreaming. What's your name?" The simple answer is its just a great way to open an rpg. The question of how your character wound up in prison could be answered endlessly in a variety of ways. It gives your complete freedom in deciding who and what your character is. It lays the foundation for creating a story for your character.
My Breton mage was a travelling book seller who was caught with some illegal documents, ones she claimed she’d never seen before. But come on, it’s not like books could just appear in her stock out of nowhere…right?
People shit on bethesdas writing without realizing that it's purposely left open-ended for role-playing reasons. Let's the player fill in the blanks with their own details. The problem is that now that bethesdas games are mainstream, you have a bunch of imaginationless, non-roleplayers expecting some detailed story to be told to them. It's like sitting down to play a game of DnD and expecting the DM to assign you a character and tell you a story about them, then saying that DnD sucks.
Baurus' comment about "lesser men" was not referring to strength of character or ones station. But literally that the Septims are on a higher standing than everyone else. They are recognized by the Divines to be the ones to rule Tamriel. And for asking the Emperor himself why you are there. That's the beauty of the writing. It could be that the PC doesn't know why they were imprisoned. It could be that they do know, but don't think they should be. It could be pre-determinism, that they were always meant to be there in that exact moment. It could be that they were magicked into being there, either teleported or being created. Are they amnesiac, self-righteous, indignant, a manifestation of the Divine's will? The Emperor doesn't know, but the player does, because it's whatever you want it to be(within reason(or not)).
Another idea: - The Hero was a criminal who committed a serious or a petty crime. This is another plausible explanation, as the Elder Scrolls games allow the player to choose their own moral alignment and actions. The Hero could have been a murderer, a thief, a bandit, a smuggler, a spy, a forger, a traitor, or any other type of criminal who broke the law and was caught by the guards. The Hero could have also been a necromancer, a vampire, a werewolf, a daedra worshipper, or a practitioner of any other forbidden or illegal magic or religion. The Hero could have even been a necrophiliac, as some fans have jokingly suggested, based on the fact that the Hero knows the fine for necrophilia in Cyrodiil is 500 gold.
You know, this comment is making me wonder if this is really the hero we need or deserve. A thieving, murdering, forging, spying, smuggling, traitor bandit who is also an illegal daedra worshipping necromancer, werewolf, and vampire who practices illegal magic. And also a necrophiliac on top of all that?!
Obvious answer is we don't know so as to allow the answer to be projected onto the character. But whatever the encounter was likely happened within the city and was considered obvious enough to involve rapid processing. But also a lesser enough crime to not draw any eyes afterwards. You also have no valuables stowed from your arrest and are not recognized by anyone in the city. Nor do you have any holdings or station to fall back on after release. So my assumption is you are poor, itinerant and unimportant. Your crime likely did not involve anyone but the guards, so it was likely a case of being in the wrong place, or you were rounded up in an unrelated aspect of an investigation and forgotten once it resolved otherwise. Either this or your crime was petty. Your cell apparently was not normally used if it was primarily there as a method of escape, so either the cells were packed and your stay was considered short, or the guard processing you was new and inexperienced. Either way everything seems to point at you being a poor nobody who either did something technically wrong or was caught up in something a guard didn't like.
I like to use a mod that delays the main quest ("Main quest delayer") until you commit a crime and get arrested. The way I get "arrested" is by taking part in the corrupt guard quest in the Imperial City, only instead of reporting him to another guard, I confronted him myself. Of course, him being corrupt, he used my accusation as an excuse that I "attacked" him and arrested me and then the main quest began with me being unjustly imprisoned.
@@burge117 thank you. It also allows you to get revenge on that guard by turning him in after you start the main game. Just make sure you're not carrying anything important or expensive on you at the time of your arrest, as everything will be confiscated and locked up in the prison, meaning you'll have to steal it back.
Another counter argument to the "Hero of Kvatch spawned into existence right then and there by the gods"; The Night Mother in The Dark Brotherhood questline, since she states to have chosen you the player since their exitence in their mother's womb Valen recalling you being dragged into that cell is one thing, but the Night Mother remembering your character being conceived like any other person? Either the gods put falce memories into the only few claiming to have known of the player's existence prior to gameplay, or we did in fact exist and end up in prison for reasons that may or may not be something Hero of Kvatch actually did prior to us playing as them (probably excludes actually having committed murder, considering the Dark Brotherhood initiation)
Emperor Uriel Septim VII, sometime after ordering the guards to unlawfully arrest you: "Hmm, what's this prisoner doing in this super specific cell? How strange!"
I like to think Audrns Avidius imprisoned the Hero of Kvatch, it just makes a little too much sense to me that maybe you looked at him and he took it the wrong way or you couldn't pay his made up fine or maybe you accidentally bumped into him. Just some pre determined misunderstanding that the corrupt watchman took advantage of and hastily put you into the first cell in the Prison where the escape happened to be
That would've been a really cool idea, and it could have been our characters payback to get him arrested. Would've been neat if he had dialogue like "your face looks familiar....I've arrested you before..."
Best part about this theory is it doesn't destroy the illusion of no backstory. Just that you get arrested by a jerk using his power on people. Which explains why the character don't know why they are there cause he could have got forceful and knocked the character out and he had other guards book & cell the character which wakes up to see themselves locked up.
Todd Howard was open about this introduction. It's intended to be open to the player's interpretation. The player is able to come up with any explanation they like for why they're there. As they intended, there is NOTHING in the game to definitively say how and why the player arrived in prison.
But it does make you wonder if the person/people who wrote it had any intentions at the time, what they envisioned. Although I definitely lean towards the end of the spectrum that if something is not readily available info it probably was not written in the first place.
@@monhi64 writers can definitely write something in such a way that you think they know more information than they're telling you, and that can definitely be a delightful sensation in the audience. This game did not make ME wonder what the writer knew that I didn't know. The mean dark elf (dunmer) in the other cell for instance just made we go "oh gosh, they don't sound like they did in morrowind at all!" In fact, that dunmer seemed to be lacking the dignity most elves are known for, and I thought it was distracting. I didn't and still don't think that he knew what my character did to end up in prison. I thought he was just being a miserable for the sake of it, or maybe he was hazing my character.
there's a flimsy - but interesting theory that Sheogorath put you there to test your worth to see if you can take his mantle later on. but that was only made after the expansion came out (as said, its a flimsy theory) there used to be a mod where you could start out elsewhere in the game, but the moment you got arrested and agreed to go to jail (in the imperial city), that's when the story mission would kick off. the mod wasnt around for long, but i miss when i had it downloaded. it kinda made the intro make more sense
@@xxXXRAPXXxxTrying to predict the madness of a true madman is impossible Basically he's so mad you don't know what he'll do. He could have had a plan, he could have not. Only he can truly know
That would be cool but I can definitely see why that wouldn’t make it into the game. Much more accurate to real life but absolute hell trying to figure out what coincidental action begins the main quest line. Obviously everyone playing the mod probably knows you need to get arrested but that’s just hindsight
First one can’t be possible due to one of the vampire dreams saying “In a dream from your childhood you remember playing hiding games with your young friends on a warm summer afternoon. You hide in your parents' barn, sure you will not be found”
The Emperor literally tells you it doesn't matter, you are the Hero of his Dreams now. Whoever you were before is done. Even if you were a murderer, thief, and you imagine your player character wants to continue doing those things their reasons are now different
This is a interesting theory. I'd like to add that Shezzar/Lorkhan might also be behind the divine intervention. This comes from the Knights of the Nine DLC where the player takes up the same title as Pelinal Whitestrake, famous knight who also battled Daedra and their worshippers (the Ayleids). Pelinal is often called a Shezzarine, essentially an avatar of Shezzar who does his bidding. If true (which is highly unlikely) then that puts the player on the list of potential Shezzarine candides but that's to deep a rabbit hole for a UA-cam comment.
I like the add on for the theory! If the gods all make the player a puppet for their wills and even the Daedric gods too I think it becomes more plausible!
The player always ends up doing the gods bidding in all games if you really think about it. From the Neverarine, to the Champion of Cyrodil and even the dragonborn. it seems whenever a mortal of high skill and power emerges the gods all sort of turn their focus on them. @@ABardsBallad
3:19 If playing as a female Dark Elf he comes on to you and sound really creepy, suggesting he ask the guard to let us share cell. I rather prefer him to insult me!
Pelinal didn't care much for being called a Shezarrine. One guy who proclaimed him a Shezarrine was "smothered by moths" but let's be honest, Pelinal was a brutal bloodthirsty murderer who just so happened to occasionally kill the right people, he probably choked the guy out himself. When the Nords saw him drenched in elf blood and proclaimed Shor had returned, he spat at them for profaning Shor's name, even though if Pelinal was a Shezarrine, he would technically be an aspect of Shor, as Shor is one and the same as Lorkhan, who is one and the same as Shezarr. Since Tiber Septim ascended to godhood specifically by mantling Lorkhan (though CHIM also played a part), that means, retroactively, Tiber Septim is Talos is Pelinal is Lorkhan is Shor is the Last Dragonborn and possibly several other main characters. Elder Scrolls lore is fucking wild. Something tells me Kirkbride wasn't the only writer for the series prone to massive drug binges.
There is only one game in the Elder Scrolls series that you do not begin the game as a prisoner. Daggerfall, the second game in the series, does start you in the very first dungeon, Privateer's Hold, but if the player decides to look at the journal to read their character's backstory they would find that there are some choices during CharGen that actually have the character vary in background from being childhood friends of the emperor all the way up to the usual thing of being a prisoner who is summoned by the Emperor to that meeting experienced in the intro cutscene. However, that cutscene will ALWAYS have Uriel state that you are his friend. "I ask this as your Emperor. And your friend." My experience with the first game, Arena, was very brief and I downloaded it when they were offering it on their website as a free download before they released the Anthology with all five games in one boxed set. Argonians were some green human model in that game and that threw me off and I never touched the game again.
I downloaded Arena when it was free on steam. I got lost in the cell after battling copius amounts of rats, rested to heal, only to have the rest interrupted by more rats, repeatedly, and eventually died from them. Also haven't touched it since.
Starting each game as a prisoner was given some weird significance after the fact, starting with Morrowind. It was always hinted at but MK pointed it out explicitly out of context. The Daggerfall protagonist, the only one who arguably didn't begin the game as a prisoner (but who also arguably did) and who was in the only game until Skyrim that gave the player significant choices (as in, choices that would affect final outcomes for the world- Picking a Great House in Morrowind does not really change anything that happens thereafter, but deciding who gets the Mantella or who wins the Civil War definitely does, and Daggerfall and Skyrim both feature justifications for a "Dragon Break" that resolves mutually-exclusive outcomes into a single timeline), is called "the Agent," which on the one hand means a kind of "secret agent" sent by the emperor to perform certain discrete tasks, but also has the meaning of "a being possessing free will." The "metaphor of the prisoner" in general can be interpreted in two opposite ways: Either by beginning in a state of imprisonment and escaping, the prisoner becomes conscious and demonstrates liberation, gaining free will at the moment that they become the player's handle (from this perspective, because of the player they are among the few beings in this universe that can actually act of their own agency), or they begin as prisoners as a metaphor for the fact that they are among the few beings in this world that actually have no agency whatsoever, their every action being decided by some outside force (ie the player, who is controlling them). The fact that the answer could go either way and isn't clear and is really an abstract philosophical question rather than an actual answer may not be satisfying, but that is the lore reason that since Morrowind the player character starting the game as a prisoner was codified into a rule for the series. What they were imprisoned for doesn't really matter (though Skyrim actually tells us, kind of), and they could just as easily start the game as a slave or indentured servant for example.
In skyrim when romlyn dreth speaks about his ancestor valen dreth he tells hero of Kvatch killed 6 Imperial officers before he went to jail thats how insane he is.
@@travistreadway3180 Valen Dreth wouldn't have stood a chance against six Imperial officers simultaneously with is weak body. Romlyn Dreth just wanted to attribute Hero of Kvatch's achievements on to his ancestor so he could boast about it for every one to hear. Romlyn: "Have I told you about Valen, my dear?" Keerava: "I love when you spin that yarn. Gets better every time you add something new." Romlyn: "He killed six Imperial Guards before they dragged him into the prisons." Keerava: "Was this before or after the Mythic Dawn attacked the Emperor and Valen single-handedly fought them off? Just shut up and drink, Romlyn." So romlyn is actually a serial lier 🤥
Honestly, there's another possibility: in Skyrim, there's a quest "A Night To Remember" where you get drunk with a disguised individual (_I'm keeping the spoilers to a minimum in case others haven't seen/played through that quest_) where you wake up, having apparently gone on a quite the chaotic rampage across Skyrim in your epically drunken stupor, but remembering literally none of it and can choose to go around trying to find out what you did. It's entirely possible that this same individual is the reason you ended up in prison, with the only likely difference being that very few saw what you actually did.
What if _both_ theories are true? What if the Gods create you in your jail cell, but instead of simply building you from scratch right then and there, they literally rewrite history so that you are born and grow up, and then end up in the jail cell? This would make sense, as the Gods could mold the exact champion they have in mind, and then rewrite history to bring their champion right to them? For example, on one of my recent playthroughs, my character was a Redguard swordsman who grew up on Stros M'kai, and dabbled in some light piracy here and there; the piracy may or may not have had something to do with his incarceration, and when he asked the Emperor why he was in jail, he was hoping to get confirmation that his piracy years had caught up with him. Only to find out that not even _the Emperor himself_ knew what the charges were, so he made his way through the sewers, and from there it was a pretty typical playthrough. Visits Anvil, gets roped into buying Benirus Manor, eagerly joins the Fighters' Guild, reluctantly joins the Mages' Guild, yadda yadda yadda. But to look back at my theory: The character was a Redguard from Stros M'kai who engaged in some light piracy. I don't see why the Gods couldn't pull some timey-wimey shenanigans to create that exact sort of individual. The Gods want a former petty pirate, so by sheer "coincidence", history gives us a former petty pirate. I mean, Cyrodiil was originally a tropical rainforest in the style of the Amazon jungle, and Talos turned it into a temperate rainforest in the style of Western and Central Europe. And that was the actions of a _single God,_ so the entire pantheon coming together and rewriting history to give them the perfect champion doesn't sound so far-fetched to me.
Considering that is what the Elder Scrolls are capable off, that sounds pretty plausible. In fact, the thieves guild questline ends with exactly that happening when Corvus Umbranox uses a scroll to "fix" the curse on the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal.
1:53 Not exactly correct. It wasn't cause of his dreams giving him foresight, but rather the events of Elder Scrolls Arena wherein he was cast to Oblivion by Jagar Tharn (the game's final boss) until saved by the player. While in Oblivion he wandered aimlessly and barely remember the years he spent there except as half remember nightmares which showed the events of the game Oblivion. In other words, he's remembering his suppressed/blocked memories through nightmares/dreams. Not getting magical foresight through his dreams
The whole point of the prison start in the elder scrolls was a roleplaying dealio. Like for one character you may be falsely imprisoned, but another may totally deserve it
I always assumed it was common knowledge that the plot of Oblivion leans heavily on determinism as its founding principles. That's what Martin implies in his speech to you advising of his plan to allow the Oblivion Gate to be opened at Bruma. Of course there is an element of divine will at play in the life of the character, given what we know in hindsight, and Martin too leaves open this possibility. "It wasn't the gods who saved us, it was you. Were you acting for the gods? I don't know. But now it's my turn to act." His acting, with or without pious intentions, accomplishes the will of the gods. It's definitely a fun topic to discuss that few people really appreciate, so I appreciate your input! Through gameplay reasons I must personally disagree that the character doesn't know what they were arrested for, since except for Glarthir and the player they usually tell every NPC what the charges are before they are put to death. Even Aldos Othran, who the Guard is actively scamming AND who is known to be the town drunk, was told to pay the fine for threatening a guardsmen before he was killed in the streets. That's more of a head-cannon issue though, I just personally couldn't see why I would be locked up in the capital city of an empire without any explanation, when I could be locked up in Cheydinhal with openly corrupt guards who would still tell me that they're stealing my home before trespassing me from it.
"doesn't know" or "can't remember"? Even if the crime committed wasn't "public intoxication" as some have suggested, it's not exactly unusual for someone to commit a crime while so plastered they couldn't remember being arrested, let alone what for, by the time they come to 🤷
I like your theory I think the Dark Brotherhood set you up for a murder. in the mission we had to kill the dark elf the prison and they knew you were in that prison 2
Turns out the DB were pulling the strings all along. They set up the Hero of Kvatch to become what he became just to fuck with the Mythic Dawn, a rival daedra worshiping murder cult.
I just held it in my own head canon that the Oblivion protagonist was a soldier/adventurer who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and then given a wild card of prison releases.
My theory was the Emperor had us put there so we'd be in the right place to get the timeline he wanted. Until you mentioned the i've seen you in my dreams line. I forgot about that. It definitely gives the impression that he did not know you would be there.
Its left unknown simply for the player to fill in. just like how you choose your class. You might have been a bard that insulted the wrong noble. Could be a soldier who fled during a battle. Might be a merchant wrongly accused of selling illegal items. Or just a outlander that murdered some people. The idea of the story is that fate/the gods have something in store for you, and your true story begins here. Whoever you were and what you did before becomes inconsequential, and just a minor foundation for the skills you require in the future.
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. A policy first introduced when Todd Howard assumed the steering wheel in Bethesda. Rather than find good explanation for many ideas and question they are left deliberately vague, for good or ill. "Why was any of the heroes starting in Morrowind imprisoned?" "I dunno, who cares? Just fill in the blanks."
Since Baurus always tells me he believes I am a Bard, I like to think my character suffers from really bad hangover in the cell and doesnt remember anything he has done while under the influence of either alcohol or skooma. He gets scared to death from seeing a king enter his prison cell (imagine how it would feel like being in his sandals), goes along and fights for his life against magical assassins, giant rats, a zombie and a pack of goblins. Our character goes through some crazy stuff and all while having the headache of his lifetime too.
It's because the "Hero" has always started out in prison. Way back to Arena, up to even Skyrim; you are either falsely accused, or genuinely accused for all the player knows, but always imprisoned and potentially awaiting death at the start. At this point, it's both tradition, as well as a bit lazy, and somewhat disrespectful to player choice in character background. (Daggerfall you could debate, but you end up shipwrecked in a dungeon with fuck all to your name, having to fight your way out with realistically very little chance to succeed all the same, so it's close enough) Redguard, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all started just like Arena did. So it's a trend, not something that needs a theory crafting session.
I think its the same as Skyrim...minus the harsh execution. He was caught crossing the border, probably got drunk or something and was caught. With no "vesa" as we would put it, and no idea wha to do with him, they throw him into a cell till he sobers up. This also would explain his memory loss.
So instead of deporting the hero or tossing them in a jail located in a town or city closer to the border, they brought them all the way to the heart of Cyrodiil?? I know that you can casually cross the whole map of Oblivion very quickly, but it's supposed to be a large land mass. It doesn't make any sense to cart a drunkard across the country to put them in a jail cell unless they committed a serious crime. The hero would be sober long before they ever got to the capitol. Helgen, where the Dragon born was taken, is on the border of Skyrim.
i like to think, it's actually plausible that the gods put you in that cell. the first gives the first clue away, your character themselves doesn't know why you were there. the second is the guards themselves, as they get near your cell, the guard captain and Boris doesn't recognize you. in fact she even asks what's this prisoner doing here, and Boris says, maybe it was a mix up with the watch. that's an important thing to note, because anytime the Empire sentences and locks a prisoner up, they know who they are. now the mix up Boris is referring to, you can apply that to our character in Skyrim. they didn't know who we were, but we were still sentenced either way. only instead of imprisonment, we were gonna be executed, but no matter what sentence was handed out, if they put you in a cell, they'll know your supposed to be there. another clue to me is the fact that he knew you would be in that cell, he even said perhaps the gods placed you here. now Bethesda does have to give a reason, some people think it's just a role playing element, of you going from a complete nobody to someone special overnight. yeah i can see that part, but i like to think im someone important in this world. so i definitely think it's possible, also i think the actual prisoner is the guy in the other cell, the one who reacts to our race depending on your background, and i think our character was perfectly timed to be there. so it's understandable why they were surprised, especially Boris, but to him if the king trusted you with something that important, he has no reason to be suspicious now. great game.
Worth considering. It's implied that Talos himself popped by in Morrowind as Wulf the soldier at Ghostgate to give you a coin for luck. He could have just waltzed in and ordered the Hero of Kvatch thrown in jail.
My head canon has always been that while visiting some store, you tried to move something out of your way, and stole it by mistake, leading to you being beaten unconscious and thrown in prison. The concussion you suffered during the beating is what caused the retrograde amnesia.
Arena, the Hero is a loyal member of the Blades / Emperor's elite members of his guard, though he was locked away after he realized Tharn is impersonating Uriel. The second game Daggerfall, is a blades agent. (Not the eternal hero of Arena), Though what happened to the agent, is an engima. Though a sixth ending was that The agent activated the Numidium, and it killed him out anger of being reactivated, and it took the combined forces of Highrock, Northern hammerfell, the underking, the Orcs, and Imperial legion to bring the brass titan down for good. Since all endings happened in Daggerfall.. Its canonically possible that Agent is dead.
Shows how important Uriel Septim VII is. The protagonists of Battlespire, Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion all are acting more or less in his name. And all the games take place within a 35 year timeframe.
I thought they wanted you to make up your own back story. I made up that my character was the son of a bandit. The father got imprisoned many years earlier & was transported to Morrowind. So, my character's father is my main character in Morrowind. The dad's bandit buddies (still in Cyrodiil) were wiped out by Ogre's leaving the son (who escaped) to fend for himself, going around begging and pick pocketing until caught and thrown in the imperial city jail. Hence, starting the Oblivion quest. My character in Skyrim is the great great grandson of my character in Oblivion.
Before watching the video For me, it depends on the nature of my character. As it were, I just started a new game and my character is a young Redguard healer. It wouldn't make any sense for him to be there for an actual crime. So, my backstory involves him coming to the Imperial City (from Anvil) to find his brother so they can go to their grandmother's funeral. Thing is, with the credible intelligence the city guard has about an attempted assassination, the city is on lockdown with a curfew, which my PC didn't know about. Even tho he was clearly not up to no good, since he had no ties to the city, no place to be, the guard decided they had to put him in a holding cell until the crisis was over. Of course, that was the cell with the secret passage. (The reason they used that cell was because, even tho they knew that cell was supposed to remain vacant, the rest of the jail was full due to other curfew-breakers. The only cell with space was Valen Dreth's, and since I wasn't actually a criminal, they figured putting me in there with him would be cruel and unusual, so they just stuck me in the one empty cell. Of course, since it was a secret escape route, no guard knew about the escape route and saw no reason not to just stick me there for the night).
As a game master I have a few ways to start games: 1:) Old Mode, you meet in a tavern. 2:) Bethesda'd, you are all prisoners. 3:) Attack, the small starting town is under siege. These have always served me well lol.
I don’t like the notion of being sceptical of the first theory because you have prison clothes on. Like it’s completely ok for the gods to have custom made you and placed you in prison at the exact perfect time, but it’s out of the question that they could have put some rags on you?
In my head canon, after being done in Vvardenfell in Morrowind, he ride hes horse and made sort of "illegal crossing" between borders. Imperial guards hunted him down, strip him down from all of hes belongings and took him in jail in imperial city. I kinda write my character like its one and the same in all games, like he gets capture in Daggerfall and gets sold in slavery in third game. Time table between oblivion and skyrim is explain that he goes back home land (Dragon age world during second game) and then leave in witcher world (where he loses hes memory and gets lost for 10-15 years) and after that returns to skyrim.
That gives me a funny idea for how the Blades do recruitment. They pick a prospective agent, bust them on fabricated charges, and dump them in a new country. Their agents at Census basically let you make a new identity (you're a crook now anyway) and they send you on a delivery run to your new handler. (Caius has a reputation as a druggie, and that cover lets him operate without drawing too much attention). Once you do some odd jobs and establish a reputation as a new foreigner, they reveal your real assignment. Maybe they do this in other countries?
All that matters is what you think the reason for it is. Objectively, you seek an answer to the question which you already answered before you began the journey.
The nine divines have a plan for your character, a path your character creates as their own. Hence, the nine divines, the gods, Uriel mentions, are the developers at Bethesda laying out your fate before you. Releasing this game to allow you decide what you want to play as, what your quest shall be the moment you start a new game.
"Your character was likely embarking in a brief visit to the capital of Cydrodiil, the Inperial City." Me who made my HOK a young pirate who got caught during a poorly timed Imperial raid - poorly timed because she was the only pirate on board: 😅
Also, Glenroy the other Blade accuses you of being with the assassins. In fact, Glenroy tries to attack you and kill you until the Emperor stops him. Glenroy is always hostile towards you. He always sees you as a threat. He actually says, "The Emporer may trust you, but I don't! Stay out of our way "
He changes his tone with the more assassins you kill. I've gotten him to say "Maybe the Emperor was right about you, just stay out of our way and we'll get along fine."
One could envision any number of scenarios. Perhaps the Emperor has confided in his prophetic dreams to a loyal and trusted but somewhat less scrupulous person from either the Blades or the Elder Council, and they've decided to kidnap a random person matching the description and put it in a cell with the passageway to fulfill the prophecy. Or maybe a loyal follower of Azura, tasked with foiling a rival Prince's scheme, has snuck into the jail and locked themselves in a cell. That would explain the shackles and why they could be easily taken off. Lastly - and this is going to sound insane - it could be that the Emperor's death and the subsequent victory of the Cult has upset the universal balance so much that it caused a temporal phenomenon known as a Dragon Break, which has retroactively placed a hero in that cell, averting the doomed timeline.
Side thought: The Emperor cannot see the Hero of Kvatch’s death. Which, in canon lore, the Hero technically has no death as they go on to mantle Sheogorath. In a sense, they’re dead in some aspect but also not true in others.
I believe it’s said that Uriel Septim also made a habit of releasing prisoners in times of strife in the belief they’d be heros, following his rescue from Oblivion and the death of the usurper Jagar Tharn.
If I had to make any personal theory, it would be that a commoner arrested for a crime of some sort was possessed by divine intervention, and then you (the PC) assume control and autonomy of the host. It would explain a lot of the issues brought up in the game. The second theory is quite close to this though, asides that the host is the character in the past prior to the jailing.
The system of law in that setting has suspects guilty until proven innocent. A court hearing may have well been in the works, and the HoC was waiting for their hearing, and then the story elements started. So the HoC could be innocent, or guilty of something. But the guards checking out the empty cell would speak to the other prisoner who pointed out the emperor himself showed up and drug HoC away.
My headcanon is that the Hero of Kvatch is in prison for necrophilia. That would explain why they know the punishment for it off the top of the head. Specifically, he had a vampiric girlfriend, and someone found out. Then he was shipped to the Imperial Prison for some reason, perhaps because she escaped and there was a risk that she would free him from a lesser prison. BTW, it is not necessary for the Hero to know about his girlfriend's vampirism prior to his arrest. 5:33 Nah, he is saying the Emperor had prescience, while he, Baurus, does not.
My assumption is the hero of kvatch came from skyrim. And the reverse happened in skyrim as we come from tameriel. And it still works cause if you come from skyrim then you were just probably coming to tameriel for something and as someone mentioned got arrested by the jerk guard in the imperial city and got in a scuffle and knocked out.
Pretty much every mainline elder scrolls game other than daggerfall had you start in as a prisoner, I'm pretty sure arena is the only one with a clear cut reason: jagar tharn basically had you imprisoned after he banished the emperor and one of his generals (who was your adoptive father) to oblivion
A few specific details that stick out to me: 1. The player character doesn't know why they are in prison. 2. The player doesn't seem to have been in prison for much longer than they have been conscious. 3. The guard doesn't know why a prisoner is in that specific cell. 4. Nobody else knows specifically why the player is there either. 5. The Emperor seems to know the most about the situation, and speaks heavily about the divine's hand in your meeting. I'll elaborate a bit more on why each detail sticks out to me: 1. The player doesn't know why they are there. There's a theory I've seen before based on a dialogue interaction that necrophilia is what got you arrested. The player in this interaction appears to know some deeper specifics about the penalty for being arrested for such a thing, as well as the harsher treatment for repeat offenders. However, if the player had been arrested for this, it would be abundantly obvious why they were in prison. Knowing the specifics of the charge would imply that if it was they themselves being charged, the player would remember this and as such wouldn't be questioning why they are there. It's much more likely therefore that however the player came to know this information, it's secondhand knowledge and not based on anything that happened to them specifically. 2. The player seems to have only arrived recently. Dreth's behavior makes it rather clear that he's only just meeting you when you wake up, and given his statement about being let out soon we can infer that he's been here for a while already. This combined with the player character's own confusion about being here confirms that their arrival was quite recent. 3. The guard takes note and concern regarding a prisoner being in this cell. It's also worth pointing out that the guard doesn't seem to recognize you. His concern makes sense if you consider the likelihood that they have a specific policy to NEVER use that cell for inmates because of the secret passageway that leads out. The cell exists entirely as part of a disguised escape route for the Emperor in the event he ever needs a safe way out of the city. The guard not recognizing you is also worth noting because if you had been charged with something such as with the necrophilia theory and especially given how recently your detainment would have been, he should know exactly who you are and why you were detained. 4. Nobody seems to drop specifics regarding the player character's arrest and imprisonment. The Blades for instance look down on you as a prisoner, but never say anything about what you did to become one. Even Dreth doesn't mutter anything about it, and given his toxic disposition towards you he absolutely would have something spiteful to say about it if he knew. As far as anyone's disposition to you at this point is concerned, you're just some prisoner, and not anything more specific than that. 5. The Emperor talks a lot about how he saw you in his dreams and that the divines must have arranged the meeting between the two of you. He seems to be the one who knows the most about what's going on out of anyone, and while he still doesn't know all that much he's very deliberately putting emphasis on the gods involvement in your being there at that place and time. With all this in mind, here's the best conclusion I can come to: I do believe that the player has a past. They were not popped into existence in that moment. They do have skills built up by a lifetime of doing... Something, and they do generally have an idea about how society functions in this world and how to get by. However, given the mass confusion going around regarding the player's appearance in that cell, I do not believe that they actually committed a crime to get there. Based on what the player character does and does not know, the best explanation I can come up with is that they are actually a citizen of Cyrodiil, but not one of the current timeframe. The player was plucked out of the past by at least one deity and brought to what is the future from their point of view without warning, explanation, or any other information. In Skyrim, the player character is arrested when trying to cross the border north into Skyrim only to fall into an imperial ambush, seeming symbolic of the transition from one game to the next. The same might be true of Oblivion. The player is someone who was plucked out of the time period of Morrowind and plopped into the time period of Oblivion by some divine being with a plan to save Cyrodiil from the threat facing it at that time, symbolically transitioning from one game to the next. In the process, this divine also adjusted their clothes to fit in within the prison, perhaps to make them as much of a nobody in this time as possible and/or to assign special significance to the Emperor placing his trust in them. I can't say for sure which divine or divines would have been involved in this plan, but I do think there would be a certain irony if rather than any of the nine it was actually Sheogorath who schemed the whole thing up for his own purposes given the events of the Shivering Isles DLC. It's kinda funny to think of Cyrodiil being saved as a side consequence of Sheogorath preparing his chosen champion to put an end to the Greymarch.
I think Daggerfall is the only entry in the main series where the player doesn't start as a prisoner, since Arena literally opens with you breaking out of prison, just like you do in Oblivion. In Daggerfall, by contrast, you are actually a friend or at least trusted agent of the Emperor and are sent personally to Iliac Bay as an imperial agent, with no mention of a pardon or prison sentence.
To go off your theory, I think what happened was not only were they wrongly accused, but awaiting trail. It makes sense that there was a mixup with someone just thrown in a random cell to await some sort of trial or conviction.
9:50 The issue with this theory is it's explicitly stated the Aedra can't create anything without exacting a significant loss to themselves. It took the vast majority of Aedra just to help Kynareth create a small amount of the worlds foliage. Creating Mortals nearly killed the 8 Divines, and Oblivion and the Daedra exist specifically because they refused to create *anything* in mundus in order to retain themselves, opting only to alter what had already been created. Akatosh lost nearly all of his remaining power just in creating the Amulet of Kings and Auriel's bow. The power Akatosh regained when the Amulet of Kings was destroyed was enough for him to manifest and fight off Mehrunes Dagon for *10 seconds.* Creating a new living being from nothing would require leveling a small chunk of Secunda. That being said: they can still influence people. Like granting a Septim the greatest Mysticism abilities ever. Most TES games involve the player being arrested on questionable charges and carted off somewhere against their will, and in each circumstance while Uriel Septim VII is alive he's the one directly responsible for placing you where you need to be. Champion of Tamriel, Agent of Daggerfall, and the Nerevarine were all hand picked by Uriel Septim, arrested, and conscripted to fulfill a vision he had of his empire's success. Uriel VII being the most powerful Mystic to ever live in TES means he has the ability to divine future events decades in advance and converse with Daedric Princes on equal footing. He *knew* Jagar Tharns', King Lysandas', Azura's, and Mankar Cameron's plans in advance by 50 years and made plans to ensure the safety of Tamriel well beyond what his visions couldn't show him. It's not entirely out of character to say Uriel could've orchestrated the Hero of Kvatch's *birth* specifically to aid Martin, knowing what he did just to find/create the Nerevarine. As for why he acts like he doesn't know why you're in jail, to quote Caius Cosades: "That's how the empire operates. Let not the Left hand know what the Right is doing."
Now I find myself imagining the story in Elder Scrolls 6 as the Emperor saying, "All right, release everyone in prison out onto the streets!" "What?! Why would we do that?" "Because one of them has to be the destined hero that saves us all! The track record speaks for itself; the Nerevarine was some random prisoner getting off a boat to Vvardenfel, the Hero of Kvatch was some random prisoner who no one knows why they were locked up, and I don't even know what crime the Dragonborn committed that made that Imperial Captain prioritize their execution over Ulfric Stormcloak's!"
Theorizing about this completely defeats the purpose of it. It's literally a blank slate start that you create your own reasons for. Even a good character could have been framed or in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even in Skyrim you're caught crossing the border. Why you were crossing the border is what you create your own reason for.
I’ve always thought that it was one of the Aedra, either Talos or Akatosh that intentionally set things in motion to get the Hero locked up into the Imperial Prison so he would be in place to meet Emperor Septim. I doubt that none of the Aedra didn’t notice Mehrunes Dagon planning on entering the realm once the Dragonfires goes out, so they made sure that a Champion would be in the right place to get the Amulet and get it to Martin. Considering that whatever crimes the Hero was imprisoned for was “forgiven” when he escaped, it wouldn’t have been something severe.
I like to think the Hero was a drunk tourist. The guards didn't know who it is, and just put 'em in the special cell to let him sleep it off. Hence why the character doesn't remember anything, why you got placed in the unused prison, and after escaping no guard tries to immediatly arrest you.
Headcanon for my hero of kvatch is that they were around when one of Uriels sons got killed. The mythic dawn agents had fled the scene, and the hero was conveniently close to the body for a guard captain to arrest them and sent to the imperial prison for interrogation at a later date
I like to think that the main character is insane before getting arrested and sent to the Prison in the Imperial City. Because he or she becomes Sheogorath at the end of the game. Skyrim the next game has some dialouge to prove it too.
Every faction and DLC is canon in that they all happened. But it's not canon that the same person did all the questlines. It wouldn't make sense for the leader of the Dark Brotherhood to also become the Divine Crusader. Likewise it makes no sense for the Divine Crusader (a servant of the Nine Divines!) to become Sheogorath. Some might argue since Shivering Isles is DLC it's more canon, but so is Knights of the Nine. I never do both in a single playthrough because they are simply not compatible. Keep in mind, as well, that this is the same studio that invented the concept of a Dragon Break because they didn't want to force an ending on us when there's a choice. Not everyone becomes Sheogorath. Therefore it's not canon. It's only canon that someone mantled Sheogorath. Whoever it was did live through the Oblivion Crisis, so him saying that he was there for the whole affair doesn't prove anything.
@@Aewon84 Even being the Divine Crusader as The Listener of the Dark Brotherhood could make sense considering the fact that the Prophet has unique dialogue if you tell him you listen for the night mother. Prophet: Are you a worthy knight? Player: No. I listen for the Night Mother. Prophet: The gods will find you an interesting plaything.
I agree with the first part, but for the rest, I feel the hero is an agent of akatosh. Akatosh picked the hero at random, probably a homeless bum, and when akatosh chose them, they went insane, ran rampant throughout the imperial city, and was stopped by the guards. Then snapped out of it, without any memory whatsoever, waking up in the cell.
Actually, picking a class at the end of the tutorial implies that we were created and placed in the cell by divine power. If our class truly rpresents skills we already know then we should already be in possion of those skills before the story begins. Likewise, the fact that we have no Birthsign is more evidence that we did not exist before the start of the story. Presumably, a birthsign is something we get at birth (otherwise the name makes no sense whatsoever). If we existed before the story started, we would already be in possion of a birthsign and we would already have a class.
In this case I'm pretty certain that by "lesser men" Baurus is referring to the fact that Uriel is royalty and has the dragon blood. Don't think it's supposed to be a dig at the pc.
The emperor had dreams of the player character. He gave your character's decription to the guards ordered your arrest. Up until skyrim, Lorkhan was giving the emperor dreams about your character, thats how you always ended up in his custody.
Alternatively the hero of Vvardenfell was directly guided to his destiny by the hand of Ashura, the divine with the most subtle yet constant presence in Cyrodiil is Nocturne, with an entire quest line dedicated to putting a character's name back onto the Elder Scrolls themselves after she removed a thief from the collective memories of the world. When not in Mask the first meeting with The Grey Fox he is surprised that you even noticed his presence and with repeated dialog he comes to point out that it's been years since anyone has approached him. That would infer the hand of Nocturne in the reason that neither the player nor anyone else remembers your crime. My personal theory is that the character was something of an independent footpad whom Nocturne chose as most suitable replacement for her personal servant in the capital city. In Skyrim we learned from the Nightingale quests that she controls the fates of all thieves and that when her favor is strong the thieves are invisible, but not matter their skills if they are easily caught when she is unhappy. Another approach is that by some chance the character touched the Mask of Nocturne, becoming the Grey Fox in the eyes of the gaurds for enough time to get arrested, but not enough for the memories to set into reality. Officially getting arrested in a case of mistaken identity, and then getting the crime memory holled the next time the forgotten count put the mask on himself.
"why are you in prison" could be the start of a character creation line of questions.
A bit like the "interview" with Doc Mitchell at the beginning of New Vegas. He even gives us equipment depending on which skills we pick, explaining that was stuff we had on us when we were found. So the Courier has a backstory and a preexisting skillset.
I was a 1. career name who 2. fatal flaw/quirk and I 3. reason why in prison. and 4. how i was caught. since then I was 5. prison hobby.
Could get spicy if you are in there for killing kids or something.
Darktide does this. Think Conan Unchained did in it’s early days too.
@@atredfaolanconan exiles has you choose the reasons you are crucified, although it's not clear if you are guilty or not. It's strictly for flavour, though.
I think we already got an answer in game, it was for necrophilia. Not only does your character know the fine for the first offence, but they also know the punishment is more severe for re-offenders.
I am so glad to see I'm not the only one who knew this answer off the top of my head.
canon
What
@@elvenatheart982 Go to Skingrad and talk to a dark elf named Falanu Hlaalu.
The conversation is hilariously memorable.
@@elvenatheart982There is a Dark Elf merchant in Skingrad that asks you if you know what the penalty for necrophilia is, and you can either choose to say that you don't know, or you can straight up answer (implying that the player knows from firsthand experience)...
Considering the jail cell had a skeleton but was otherwise clean my vote it was a "scared straight" situation where a misbehaving kid (who'd say, got in a drunken brawl the night before) was thrown in across the way from a foul mouthed prisoner to try and get him to see the error of his ways.
That sounds incredibly logical. The cell isn't usually used, the cell is clean, there is a skeleton in that hasn't been removed. All that hints to the fact that it's a setup.
I think it was illegal skooma smuggling in all games. They take the player character crossing the border and throw them in a cell. Then the game begins.
Both sound good ,but I like the ida of it bieng anything and everything
In the previous games youre just an imperial agent. The pretext is that the emperor can put you wherever he wants to. IE, you start on a prison ship in Morrowind but by direct orders from uriel septim. Youre also an agent for and apparent super close friend to Uriel in daggerfall as well. @@Sylvershade
That's so gay. Let's make the pc a eunuch while we're at it
I’d always assumed that “lesser men” referred to the emperor being Dragonborn, rather than societal status.
Uriel and Martin were both descendants of the dragon blood after all, and from what we’ve seen in Skyrim, Dragonborn are capable of some pretty incredible things.
The Dragonborn in Skyrim isn't much different from the Imperial Dragonborn lineage.
Imperials have the "Voice of the Emperor" power which is probably similar to dragon shouts in some lesser form, and is also likely the very same shout that were used to subjegate/calm the invading Akaviri warriors, leading into the formation of the OG Blades.
The whole dragon blood makes one think if the Dragonborn would be able to take on the throne. Especially since they personally kill the then current emperor for the Dark Brotherhood.
And the possibility that Uriel Septim V. has descendents on Akavir
@@HappyBeezerStudiosTheir dragonblood is not necessary anymore though. Sure, it would be prestigious and a powerful tool of war but it does not give you a claim or right to rule.
@@muffinman2546dude Voice of the emperor is just talking like Capt. Picard!
And yeah its charming
Also beggars use the voice… hence the odd voice changes after giving coin
@@MLBeaton Holy shit I never thought about the idea of the beggar going from well spoken gentleman to limey guttersnipe after they get my gold was them using voice of the emperor. Mind blown.
As with all of the other games (except for Elder Scrolls: Redguard), I don't think a single detail about the player character's backstory before the start of the game is set in stone. Bethesda made it intentionally ambiguous so that the player could write their own backstory, not hunt for answers that were never intended to exist. But that's just one eldritch horror's opinion.
Not much has been told about the hero! I think Bethesda wanted us to fill in the gaps for the backstory for the added immersion!
I'm Commander Shepard and I love when people stay in character for UA-cam comments. 😂
And all the backstories for the Heroes are canon. And all the endings are canon.
Other than the fact that Bethesda literally said exactly what you just said, it's also pretty obvious because that was cool at the time (and still is, dammit)
The only point of this video is fun speculation. Also obvious because that's what is cool at this time.
Iirc in the Arena the character is in the court of the emperor, and in Daggerfall they're supposed to be good friends with them, but that's as much detail as they'd ever get into
Nah, see right before the game started you accidentally picked up a worthless cup.
Uriel Septim Not being able to see your death also could be related to the fact you become Sheogorath the daedric prince.
I love the fact that the Hero of Kvatch is the Sheogorath we see in Skyrim
@@ChiqueIndustriesI hate that…
@@mar3869Boo Hoo
@@mar3869why though?
@@NotSoSerious69420because people hate fun
Seeing as the Emperor can partly see your fate, he says your crime is not what you will be remembered for. If you didn’t commit a crime and were falsely imprisoned, I would think he would know you were innocent of any wrongdoing and not say that
Or maybe he meant "don't waste your time trying to dig up your past, it's the future that matters." Even knowledge of innocence would lead to a rabbithole of investigation if left unchecked.
"Stand up... there you go. You were dreaming. What's your name?"
The simple answer is its just a great way to open an rpg. The question of how your character wound up in prison could be answered endlessly in a variety of ways. It gives your complete freedom in deciding who and what your character is. It lays the foundation for creating a story for your character.
My high elf commited insurance fraud
@@SadChiefThis is why you can't trust elves.
My Breton mage was a travelling book seller who was caught with some illegal documents, ones she claimed she’d never seen before. But come on, it’s not like books could just appear in her stock out of nowhere…right?
People shit on bethesdas writing without realizing that it's purposely left open-ended for role-playing reasons. Let's the player fill in the blanks with their own details. The problem is that now that bethesdas games are mainstream, you have a bunch of imaginationless, non-roleplayers expecting some detailed story to be told to them. It's like sitting down to play a game of DnD and expecting the DM to assign you a character and tell you a story about them, then saying that DnD sucks.
Baurus' comment about "lesser men" was not referring to strength of character or ones station. But literally that the Septims are on a higher standing than everyone else. They are recognized by the Divines to be the ones to rule Tamriel.
And for asking the Emperor himself why you are there. That's the beauty of the writing. It could be that the PC doesn't know why they were imprisoned. It could be that they do know, but don't think they should be. It could be pre-determinism, that they were always meant to be there in that exact moment. It could be that they were magicked into being there, either teleported or being created. Are they amnesiac, self-righteous, indignant, a manifestation of the Divine's will? The Emperor doesn't know, but the player does, because it's whatever you want it to be(within reason(or not)).
Another idea:
- The Hero was a criminal who committed a serious or a petty crime. This is another plausible explanation, as the Elder Scrolls games allow the player to choose their own moral alignment and actions. The Hero could have been a murderer, a thief, a bandit, a smuggler, a spy, a forger, a traitor, or any other type of criminal who broke the law and was caught by the guards. The Hero could have also been a necromancer, a vampire, a werewolf, a daedra worshipper, or a practitioner of any other forbidden or illegal magic or religion. The Hero could have even been a necrophiliac, as some fans have jokingly suggested, based on the fact that the Hero knows the fine for necrophilia in Cyrodiil is 500 gold.
They could be all of that, except a vampire or werewolf. They are specifically not either of those.
Best comment
You know, this comment is making me wonder if this is really the hero we need or deserve.
A thieving, murdering, forging, spying, smuggling, traitor bandit who is also an illegal daedra worshipping necromancer, werewolf, and vampire who practices illegal magic. And also a necrophiliac on top of all that?!
You are obviously in prison for moving an apple
I always play a dunmer, that means that I don't pray to the Devines, but I DO pray to Three Daedra Princes. Your idea justifies my time in jail.
Obvious answer is we don't know so as to allow the answer to be projected onto the character. But whatever the encounter was likely happened within the city and was considered obvious enough to involve rapid processing. But also a lesser enough crime to not draw any eyes afterwards. You also have no valuables stowed from your arrest and are not recognized by anyone in the city. Nor do you have any holdings or station to fall back on after release. So my assumption is you are poor, itinerant and unimportant. Your crime likely did not involve anyone but the guards, so it was likely a case of being in the wrong place, or you were rounded up in an unrelated aspect of an investigation and forgotten once it resolved otherwise. Either this or your crime was petty. Your cell apparently was not normally used if it was primarily there as a method of escape, so either the cells were packed and your stay was considered short, or the guard processing you was new and inexperienced. Either way everything seems to point at you being a poor nobody who either did something technically wrong or was caught up in something a guard didn't like.
They probably accidentally picked up a misc item like a spoon or carrot and didn't have the 40 gold to pay the fine.
I like to use a mod that delays the main quest ("Main quest delayer") until you commit a crime and get arrested.
The way I get "arrested" is by taking part in the corrupt guard quest in the Imperial City, only instead of reporting him to another guard, I confronted him myself. Of course, him being corrupt, he used my accusation as an excuse that I "attacked" him and arrested me and then the main quest began with me being unjustly imprisoned.
That's pretty cool.
@@burge117 thank you. It also allows you to get revenge on that guard by turning him in after you start the main game.
Just make sure you're not carrying anything important or expensive on you at the time of your arrest, as everything will be confiscated and locked up in the prison, meaning you'll have to steal it back.
Do you have a link to the mod??
Alright, getting that damn mod downloaded the next time i play for sure!
@@user-yx9is6zk4h I posted the link and the website name but UA-cam deleted it.
I'll try again, its on nexusmods.
Another counter argument to the "Hero of Kvatch spawned into existence right then and there by the gods"; The Night Mother in The Dark Brotherhood questline, since she states to have chosen you the player since their exitence in their mother's womb
Valen recalling you being dragged into that cell is one thing, but the Night Mother remembering your character being conceived like any other person? Either the gods put falce memories into the only few claiming to have known of the player's existence prior to gameplay, or we did in fact exist and end up in prison for reasons that may or may not be something Hero of Kvatch actually did prior to us playing as them (probably excludes actually having committed murder, considering the Dark Brotherhood initiation)
The night mother could also have been speaking metaphorically.
Emperor Uriel Septim VII, sometime after ordering the guards to unlawfully arrest you: "Hmm, what's this prisoner doing in this super specific cell? How strange!"
That makes a disturbing amount of sense, lol.
I like to think Audrns Avidius imprisoned the Hero of Kvatch, it just makes a little too much sense to me that maybe you looked at him and he took it the wrong way or you couldn't pay his made up fine or maybe you accidentally bumped into him.
Just some pre determined misunderstanding that the corrupt watchman took advantage of and hastily put you into the first cell in the Prison where the escape happened to be
That would've been a really cool idea, and it could have been our characters payback to get him arrested. Would've been neat if he had dialogue like "your face looks familiar....I've arrested you before..."
Best part about this theory is it doesn't destroy the illusion of no backstory. Just that you get arrested by a jerk using his power on people. Which explains why the character don't know why they are there cause he could have got forceful and knocked the character out and he had other guards book & cell the character which wakes up to see themselves locked up.
I've had a similar idea, instead the watch captain in question was Adamus Philida.
Todd Howard was open about this introduction. It's intended to be open to the player's interpretation. The player is able to come up with any explanation they like for why they're there. As they intended, there is NOTHING in the game to definitively say how and why the player arrived in prison.
But it does make you wonder if the person/people who wrote it had any intentions at the time, what they envisioned. Although I definitely lean towards the end of the spectrum that if something is not readily available info it probably was not written in the first place.
@@monhi64 writers can definitely write something in such a way that you think they know more information than they're telling you, and that can definitely be a delightful sensation in the audience. This game did not make ME wonder what the writer knew that I didn't know. The mean dark elf (dunmer) in the other cell for instance just made we go "oh gosh, they don't sound like they did in morrowind at all!" In fact, that dunmer seemed to be lacking the dignity most elves are known for, and I thought it was distracting. I didn't and still don't think that he knew what my character did to end up in prison. I thought he was just being a miserable for the sake of it, or maybe he was hazing my character.
Its official, the hero of kvatch had an expired passport
there's a flimsy - but interesting theory that Sheogorath put you there to test your worth to see if you can take his mantle later on. but that was only made after the expansion came out (as said, its a flimsy theory)
there used to be a mod where you could start out elsewhere in the game, but the moment you got arrested and agreed to go to jail (in the imperial city), that's when the story mission would kick off. the mod wasnt around for long, but i miss when i had it downloaded. it kinda made the intro make more sense
Does Sheo really look like a man with a long term plan?
@@xxXXRAPXXxxTrying to predict the madness of a true madman is impossible
Basically he's so mad you don't know what he'll do. He could have had a plan, he could have not. Only he can truly know
@@hazeltree7738 Donno man, making plans and executing them requires patience to think things over sometimes for longer periods of time.
Im guessing that mod prevented the Oblivion Gates from spawning, but what about kvatch?
That would be cool but I can definitely see why that wouldn’t make it into the game. Much more accurate to real life but absolute hell trying to figure out what coincidental action begins the main quest line. Obviously everyone playing the mod probably knows you need to get arrested but that’s just hindsight
First one can’t be possible due to one of the vampire dreams saying “In a dream from your childhood you remember playing hiding games with your young friends on a warm summer afternoon. You hide in your parents' barn, sure you will not be found”
couldn't those be some kind of vampiric delusion since its a disease taking over and changing your mind?
The Emperor literally tells you it doesn't matter, you are the Hero of his Dreams now. Whoever you were before is done. Even if you were a murderer, thief, and you imagine your player character wants to continue doing those things their reasons are now different
This is a interesting theory. I'd like to add that Shezzar/Lorkhan might also be behind the divine intervention. This comes from the Knights of the Nine DLC where the player takes up the same title as Pelinal Whitestrake, famous knight who also battled Daedra and their worshippers (the Ayleids). Pelinal is often called a Shezzarine, essentially an avatar of Shezzar who does his bidding. If true (which is highly unlikely) then that puts the player on the list of potential Shezzarine candides but that's to deep a rabbit hole for a UA-cam comment.
I like the add on for the theory! If the gods all make the player a puppet for their wills and even the Daedric gods too I think it becomes more plausible!
The player always ends up doing the gods bidding in all games if you really think about it. From the Neverarine, to the Champion of Cyrodil and even the dragonborn. it seems whenever a mortal of high skill and power emerges the gods all sort of turn their focus on them. @@ABardsBallad
3:19 If playing as a female Dark Elf he comes on to you and sound really creepy, suggesting he ask the guard to let us share cell. I rather prefer him to insult me!
Pelinal didn't care much for being called a Shezarrine. One guy who proclaimed him a Shezarrine was "smothered by moths" but let's be honest, Pelinal was a brutal bloodthirsty murderer who just so happened to occasionally kill the right people, he probably choked the guy out himself. When the Nords saw him drenched in elf blood and proclaimed Shor had returned, he spat at them for profaning Shor's name, even though if Pelinal was a Shezarrine, he would technically be an aspect of Shor, as Shor is one and the same as Lorkhan, who is one and the same as Shezarr.
Since Tiber Septim ascended to godhood specifically by mantling Lorkhan (though CHIM also played a part), that means, retroactively, Tiber Septim is Talos is Pelinal is Lorkhan is Shor is the Last Dragonborn and possibly several other main characters.
Elder Scrolls lore is fucking wild. Something tells me Kirkbride wasn't the only writer for the series prone to massive drug binges.
It wouldn't surprise me if shor is behind everything creator possibly the hero and dragonborn he uses what power he has to help the land
There is only one game in the Elder Scrolls series that you do not begin the game as a prisoner. Daggerfall, the second game in the series, does start you in the very first dungeon, Privateer's Hold, but if the player decides to look at the journal to read their character's backstory they would find that there are some choices during CharGen that actually have the character vary in background from being childhood friends of the emperor all the way up to the usual thing of being a prisoner who is summoned by the Emperor to that meeting experienced in the intro cutscene. However, that cutscene will ALWAYS have Uriel state that you are his friend. "I ask this as your Emperor. And your friend."
My experience with the first game, Arena, was very brief and I downloaded it when they were offering it on their website as a free download before they released the Anthology with all five games in one boxed set. Argonians were some green human model in that game and that threw me off and I never touched the game again.
I downloaded Arena when it was free on steam. I got lost in the cell after battling copius amounts of rats, rested to heal, only to have the rest interrupted by more rats, repeatedly, and eventually died from them.
Also haven't touched it since.
Starting each game as a prisoner was given some weird significance after the fact, starting with Morrowind. It was always hinted at but MK pointed it out explicitly out of context. The Daggerfall protagonist, the only one who arguably didn't begin the game as a prisoner (but who also arguably did) and who was in the only game until Skyrim that gave the player significant choices (as in, choices that would affect final outcomes for the world- Picking a Great House in Morrowind does not really change anything that happens thereafter, but deciding who gets the Mantella or who wins the Civil War definitely does, and Daggerfall and Skyrim both feature justifications for a "Dragon Break" that resolves mutually-exclusive outcomes into a single timeline), is called "the Agent," which on the one hand means a kind of "secret agent" sent by the emperor to perform certain discrete tasks, but also has the meaning of "a being possessing free will."
The "metaphor of the prisoner" in general can be interpreted in two opposite ways: Either by beginning in a state of imprisonment and escaping, the prisoner becomes conscious and demonstrates liberation, gaining free will at the moment that they become the player's handle (from this perspective, because of the player they are among the few beings in this universe that can actually act of their own agency), or they begin as prisoners as a metaphor for the fact that they are among the few beings in this world that actually have no agency whatsoever, their every action being decided by some outside force (ie the player, who is controlling them). The fact that the answer could go either way and isn't clear and is really an abstract philosophical question rather than an actual answer may not be satisfying, but that is the lore reason that since Morrowind the player character starting the game as a prisoner was codified into a rule for the series. What they were imprisoned for doesn't really matter (though Skyrim actually tells us, kind of), and they could just as easily start the game as a slave or indentured servant for example.
@@goatslayer3160Skill issue. You were ratblocked.
In skyrim when romlyn dreth speaks about his ancestor valen dreth he tells hero of Kvatch killed 6 Imperial officers before he went to jail thats how insane he is.
No bark level of story telling right there
@@travistreadway3180 Valen Dreth wouldn't have stood a chance against six Imperial officers simultaneously with is weak body.
Romlyn Dreth just wanted to attribute Hero of Kvatch's achievements on to his ancestor so he could boast about it for every one to hear.
Romlyn: "Have I told you about Valen, my dear?"
Keerava: "I love when you spin that yarn. Gets better every time you add something new."
Romlyn: "He killed six Imperial Guards before they dragged him into the prisons."
Keerava: "Was this before or after the Mythic Dawn attacked the Emperor and Valen single-handedly fought them off? Just shut up and drink, Romlyn."
So romlyn is actually a serial lier 🤥
Honestly, there's another possibility: in Skyrim, there's a quest "A Night To Remember" where you get drunk with a disguised individual (_I'm keeping the spoilers to a minimum in case others haven't seen/played through that quest_) where you wake up, having apparently gone on a quite the chaotic rampage across Skyrim in your epically drunken stupor, but remembering literally none of it and can choose to go around trying to find out what you did. It's entirely possible that this same individual is the reason you ended up in prison, with the only likely difference being that very few saw what you actually did.
What if _both_ theories are true? What if the Gods create you in your jail cell, but instead of simply building you from scratch right then and there, they literally rewrite history so that you are born and grow up, and then end up in the jail cell? This would make sense, as the Gods could mold the exact champion they have in mind, and then rewrite history to bring their champion right to them?
For example, on one of my recent playthroughs, my character was a Redguard swordsman who grew up on Stros M'kai, and dabbled in some light piracy here and there; the piracy may or may not have had something to do with his incarceration, and when he asked the Emperor why he was in jail, he was hoping to get confirmation that his piracy years had caught up with him. Only to find out that not even _the Emperor himself_ knew what the charges were, so he made his way through the sewers, and from there it was a pretty typical playthrough. Visits Anvil, gets roped into buying Benirus Manor, eagerly joins the Fighters' Guild, reluctantly joins the Mages' Guild, yadda yadda yadda.
But to look back at my theory: The character was a Redguard from Stros M'kai who engaged in some light piracy. I don't see why the Gods couldn't pull some timey-wimey shenanigans to create that exact sort of individual. The Gods want a former petty pirate, so by sheer "coincidence", history gives us a former petty pirate. I mean, Cyrodiil was originally a tropical rainforest in the style of the Amazon jungle, and Talos turned it into a temperate rainforest in the style of Western and Central Europe. And that was the actions of a _single God,_ so the entire pantheon coming together and rewriting history to give them the perfect champion doesn't sound so far-fetched to me.
Considering that is what the Elder Scrolls are capable off, that sounds pretty plausible. In fact, the thieves guild questline ends with exactly that happening when Corvus Umbranox uses a scroll to "fix" the curse on the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal.
1:53 Not exactly correct. It wasn't cause of his dreams giving him foresight, but rather the events of Elder Scrolls Arena wherein he was cast to Oblivion by Jagar Tharn (the game's final boss) until saved by the player. While in Oblivion he wandered aimlessly and barely remember the years he spent there except as half remember nightmares which showed the events of the game Oblivion.
In other words, he's remembering his suppressed/blocked memories through nightmares/dreams. Not getting magical foresight through his dreams
The guard pointing at the cell while looking up at the camera is funny, it's like he's saying "Get down from there and back in your cell."
What is interesting is I think you can revisit the Imperial prison via the outside and it seems no one recognizes you.
It's easy to figure out we were in jail. We probably accidentally knocked over a bottle at a tavern, or picked up a book in a store
The whole point of the prison start in the elder scrolls was a roleplaying dealio. Like for one character you may be falsely imprisoned, but another may totally deserve it
I always assumed it was common knowledge that the plot of Oblivion leans heavily on determinism as its founding principles. That's what Martin implies in his speech to you advising of his plan to allow the Oblivion Gate to be opened at Bruma. Of course there is an element of divine will at play in the life of the character, given what we know in hindsight, and Martin too leaves open this possibility. "It wasn't the gods who saved us, it was you. Were you acting for the gods? I don't know. But now it's my turn to act." His acting, with or without pious intentions, accomplishes the will of the gods. It's definitely a fun topic to discuss that few people really appreciate, so I appreciate your input!
Through gameplay reasons I must personally disagree that the character doesn't know what they were arrested for, since except for Glarthir and the player they usually tell every NPC what the charges are before they are put to death. Even Aldos Othran, who the Guard is actively scamming AND who is known to be the town drunk, was told to pay the fine for threatening a guardsmen before he was killed in the streets. That's more of a head-cannon issue though, I just personally couldn't see why I would be locked up in the capital city of an empire without any explanation, when I could be locked up in Cheydinhal with openly corrupt guards who would still tell me that they're stealing my home before trespassing me from it.
"doesn't know" or "can't remember"? Even if the crime committed wasn't "public intoxication" as some have suggested, it's not exactly unusual for someone to commit a crime while so plastered they couldn't remember being arrested, let alone what for, by the time they come to 🤷
I like your theory I think the Dark Brotherhood set you up for a murder. in the mission we had to kill the dark elf the prison and they knew you were in that prison 2
Now that makes sense.
Turns out the DB were pulling the strings all along. They set up the Hero of Kvatch to become what he became just to fuck with the Mythic Dawn, a rival daedra worshiping murder cult.
Imagine finding that secret passage on your first night in the cell, a few goblins later and you are home free.
I just held it in my own head canon that the Oblivion protagonist was a soldier/adventurer who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and then given a wild card of prison releases.
I still Play oblivion and it holds a special place in my heart.
My theory was the Emperor had us put there so we'd be in the right place to get the timeline he wanted. Until you mentioned the i've seen you in my dreams line. I forgot about that. It definitely gives the impression that he did not know you would be there.
Its left unknown simply for the player to fill in.
just like how you choose your class.
You might have been a bard that insulted the wrong noble.
Could be a soldier who fled during a battle.
Might be a merchant wrongly accused of selling illegal items.
Or just a outlander that murdered some people.
The idea of the story is that fate/the gods have something in store for you, and your true story begins here.
Whoever you were and what you did before becomes inconsequential, and just a minor foundation for the skills you require in the future.
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. A policy first introduced when Todd Howard assumed the steering wheel in Bethesda. Rather than find good explanation for many ideas and question they are left deliberately vague, for good or ill. "Why was any of the heroes starting in Morrowind imprisoned?" "I dunno, who cares? Just fill in the blanks."
main character has some sus intel on necrophilia tbh 😂😂
😂😂😂 I think so
Since Baurus always tells me he believes I am a Bard, I like to think my character suffers from really bad hangover in the cell and doesnt remember anything he has done while under the influence of either alcohol or skooma.
He gets scared to death from seeing a king enter his prison cell (imagine how it would feel like being in his sandals), goes along and fights for his life against magical assassins, giant rats, a zombie and a pack of goblins.
Our character goes through some crazy stuff and all while having the headache of his lifetime too.
Never throw out the wrist irons. They're the only item worn on your hands that don't count as armour with a durability rating.
You got arrested for stealing a sweet roll.
It's because the "Hero" has always started out in prison. Way back to Arena, up to even Skyrim; you are either falsely accused, or genuinely accused for all the player knows, but always imprisoned and potentially awaiting death at the start. At this point, it's both tradition, as well as a bit lazy, and somewhat disrespectful to player choice in character background. (Daggerfall you could debate, but you end up shipwrecked in a dungeon with fuck all to your name, having to fight your way out with realistically very little chance to succeed all the same, so it's close enough) Redguard, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all started just like Arena did. So it's a trend, not something that needs a theory crafting session.
I think its the same as Skyrim...minus the harsh execution. He was caught crossing the border, probably got drunk or something and was caught. With no "vesa" as we would put it, and no idea wha to do with him, they throw him into a cell till he sobers up. This also would explain his memory loss.
So instead of deporting the hero or tossing them in a jail located in a town or city closer to the border, they brought them all the way to the heart of Cyrodiil?? I know that you can casually cross the whole map of Oblivion very quickly, but it's supposed to be a large land mass. It doesn't make any sense to cart a drunkard across the country to put them in a jail cell unless they committed a serious crime. The hero would be sober long before they ever got to the capitol. Helgen, where the Dragon born was taken, is on the border of Skyrim.
i like to think, it's actually plausible that the gods put you in that cell.
the first gives the first clue away, your character themselves doesn't
know why you were there. the second is the guards themselves, as they get near your
cell, the guard captain and Boris doesn't recognize you. in fact she even asks what's this prisoner doing here, and Boris says, maybe it was a mix up with the watch.
that's an important thing to note, because anytime the Empire sentences and locks a prisoner up, they know who they are. now the mix up Boris is referring to, you can apply that to our character in Skyrim. they didn't know who we were, but we were still sentenced either way. only instead of imprisonment, we were gonna be executed, but no matter what sentence was handed out, if they put you in a cell, they'll know your supposed to be there.
another clue to me is the fact that he knew you would be in that cell, he even said perhaps the gods placed you here. now Bethesda does have to give a reason, some people think
it's just a role playing element, of you going from a complete nobody to someone special overnight. yeah i can see that part, but i like to think im someone important in this world.
so i definitely think it's possible, also i think the actual prisoner is the guy in the other cell,
the one who reacts to our race depending on your background, and i think our character
was perfectly timed to be there. so it's understandable why they were surprised,
especially Boris, but to him if the king trusted you with something that important,
he has no reason to be suspicious now. great game.
Worth considering. It's implied that Talos himself popped by in Morrowind as Wulf the soldier at Ghostgate to give you a coin for luck. He could have just waltzed in and ordered the Hero of Kvatch thrown in jail.
Beginning of the video: “they couldn’t have been teleported”
10 minutes later: “they were teleported”
😂 I did mention I didn’t like the teleportation theory and that I thought there were holes
Thanks for saving me 10 minutes
My head canon has always been that while visiting some store, you tried to move something out of your way, and stole it by mistake, leading to you being beaten unconscious and thrown in prison. The concussion you suffered during the beating is what caused the retrograde amnesia.
Arena, the Hero is a loyal member of the Blades / Emperor's elite members of his guard, though he was locked away after he realized Tharn is impersonating Uriel. The second game Daggerfall, is a blades agent. (Not the eternal hero of Arena), Though what happened to the agent, is an engima. Though a sixth ending was that The agent activated the Numidium, and it killed him out anger of being reactivated, and it took the combined forces of Highrock, Northern hammerfell, the underking, the Orcs, and Imperial legion to bring the brass titan down for good. Since all endings happened in Daggerfall.. Its canonically possible that Agent is dead.
Shows how important Uriel Septim VII is.
The protagonists of Battlespire, Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion all are acting more or less in his name. And all the games take place within a 35 year timeframe.
My theory is- criminal scum was locked in the cell. But a "walk-in soul" transfer took place, right before meeting the Uriel Septim
I thought they wanted you to make up your own back story. I made up that my character was the son of a bandit. The father got imprisoned many years earlier & was transported to Morrowind. So, my character's father is my main character in Morrowind. The dad's bandit buddies (still in Cyrodiil) were wiped out by Ogre's leaving the son (who escaped) to fend for himself, going around begging and pick pocketing until caught and thrown in the imperial city jail. Hence, starting the Oblivion quest. My character in Skyrim is the great great grandson of my character in Oblivion.
Before watching the video
For me, it depends on the nature of my character. As it were, I just started a new game and my character is a young Redguard healer. It wouldn't make any sense for him to be there for an actual crime. So, my backstory involves him coming to the Imperial City (from Anvil) to find his brother so they can go to their grandmother's funeral. Thing is, with the credible intelligence the city guard has about an attempted assassination, the city is on lockdown with a curfew, which my PC didn't know about.
Even tho he was clearly not up to no good, since he had no ties to the city, no place to be, the guard decided they had to put him in a holding cell until the crisis was over. Of course, that was the cell with the secret passage. (The reason they used that cell was because, even tho they knew that cell was supposed to remain vacant, the rest of the jail was full due to other curfew-breakers. The only cell with space was Valen Dreth's, and since I wasn't actually a criminal, they figured putting me in there with him would be cruel and unusual, so they just stuck me in the one empty cell. Of course, since it was a secret escape route, no guard knew about the escape route and saw no reason not to just stick me there for the night).
I like the added immersion! It’s probably what Bethesda intended when making the game was for the player to come up with their own backstory!
We’re just gonna ignore that the player doesn’t start out as a prisoner in Daggerfall.
HoK: "Why am I in prison?"
Emperor: "Perhaps the -devs- Gods placed you in here so that we may meet" (wink-wink)
As a game master I have a few ways to start games:
1:) Old Mode, you meet in a tavern.
2:) Bethesda'd, you are all prisoners.
3:) Attack, the small starting town is under siege.
These have always served me well lol.
I don’t like the notion of being sceptical of the first theory because you have prison clothes on. Like it’s completely ok for the gods to have custom made you and placed you in prison at the exact perfect time, but it’s out of the question that they could have put some rags on you?
I always felt the prisoner start is so the player is free to decide why their character is in prison. Allowing them to decide how they start.
In my head canon, after being done in Vvardenfell in Morrowind, he ride hes horse and made sort of "illegal crossing" between borders. Imperial guards hunted him down, strip him down from all of hes belongings and took him in jail in imperial city. I kinda write my character like its one and the same in all games, like he gets capture in Daggerfall and gets sold in slavery in third game. Time table between oblivion and skyrim is explain that he goes back home land (Dragon age world during second game) and then leave in witcher world (where he loses hes memory and gets lost for 10-15 years) and after that returns to skyrim.
That gives me a funny idea for how the Blades do recruitment.
They pick a prospective agent, bust them on fabricated charges, and dump them in a new country. Their agents at Census basically let you make a new identity (you're a crook now anyway) and they send you on a delivery run to your new handler. (Caius has a reputation as a druggie, and that cover lets him operate without drawing too much attention).
Once you do some odd jobs and establish a reputation as a new foreigner, they reveal your real assignment.
Maybe they do this in other countries?
what question i would prefer answered is, the emperor knew he was going to be assassinated but no one knows how he knew.
I always figured that I was locked up was because what player did in Morrwin.
But I played all the Elder Scroll games as if I was the same character.
The eternal champion, the agent, the Nerevarine, the hero of kvatch, and the dragon born are explicitly different people.
All that matters is what you think the reason for it is. Objectively, you seek an answer to the question which you already answered before you began the journey.
The nine divines have a plan for your character, a path your character creates as their own. Hence, the nine divines, the gods, Uriel mentions, are the developers at Bethesda laying out your fate before you. Releasing this game to allow you decide what you want to play as, what your quest shall be the moment you start a new game.
The more Oblivion UA-camrs the better. Always nice to listen to different opinions on the games.
"Your character was likely embarking in a brief visit to the capital of Cydrodiil, the Inperial City."
Me who made my HOK a young pirate who got caught during a poorly timed Imperial raid - poorly timed because she was the only pirate on board: 😅
No mention of the Hero knocking a Sweetroll onto the floor, picking it up, and being arrested for it?
Also, Glenroy the other Blade accuses you of being with the assassins. In fact, Glenroy tries to attack you and kill you until the Emperor stops him. Glenroy is always hostile towards you. He always sees you as a threat. He actually says, "The Emporer may trust you, but I don't! Stay out of our way "
He changes his tone with the more assassins you kill.
I've gotten him to say "Maybe the Emperor was right about you, just stay out of our way and we'll get along fine."
@@dragondude9637 I’ll have to try that. Thanks. 😊
One could envision any number of scenarios. Perhaps the Emperor has confided in his prophetic dreams to a loyal and trusted but somewhat less scrupulous person from either the Blades or the Elder Council, and they've decided to kidnap a random person matching the description and put it in a cell with the passageway to fulfill the prophecy.
Or maybe a loyal follower of Azura, tasked with foiling a rival Prince's scheme, has snuck into the jail and locked themselves in a cell. That would explain the shackles and why they could be easily taken off. Lastly - and this is going to sound insane - it could be that the Emperor's death and the subsequent victory of the Cult has upset the universal balance so much that it caused a temporal phenomenon known as a Dragon Break, which has retroactively placed a hero in that cell, averting the doomed timeline.
Side thought: The Emperor cannot see the Hero of Kvatch’s death. Which, in canon lore, the Hero technically has no death as they go on to mantle Sheogorath. In a sense, they’re dead in some aspect but also not true in others.
I think I’ve struck gold discovering this channel.
Watching this whilst on my break at work. It's rejuvenating.
I believe it’s said that Uriel Septim also made a habit of releasing prisoners in times of strife in the belief they’d be heros, following his rescue from Oblivion and the death of the usurper Jagar Tharn.
If I had to make any personal theory, it would be that a commoner arrested for a crime of some sort was possessed by divine intervention, and then you (the PC) assume control and autonomy of the host. It would explain a lot of the issues brought up in the game. The second theory is quite close to this though, asides that the host is the character in the past prior to the jailing.
The system of law in that setting has suspects guilty until proven innocent. A court hearing may have well been in the works, and the HoC was waiting for their hearing, and then the story elements started. So the HoC could be innocent, or guilty of something. But the guards checking out the empty cell would speak to the other prisoner who pointed out the emperor himself showed up and drug HoC away.
Considering the hero of kvatch knows the fine and penalties for Necrophilia I think we know why they’re in prison
The opening cinematic over the Imperial City could be your “soul” , “essence” PoV into the realm of Tamriel 😂
My headcanon is that the Hero of Kvatch is in prison for necrophilia. That would explain why they know the punishment for it off the top of the head.
Specifically, he had a vampiric girlfriend, and someone found out. Then he was shipped to the Imperial Prison for some reason, perhaps because she escaped and there was a risk that she would free him from a lesser prison.
BTW, it is not necessary for the Hero to know about his girlfriend's vampirism prior to his arrest.
5:33 Nah, he is saying the Emperor had prescience, while he, Baurus, does not.
man... it's been 20 years and I still love hearing about oblivion.
My assumption is the hero of kvatch came from skyrim. And the reverse happened in skyrim as we come from tameriel. And it still works cause if you come from skyrim then you were just probably coming to tameriel for something and as someone mentioned got arrested by the jerk guard in the imperial city and got in a scuffle and knocked out.
For my character, it's a mix of destiny and Audens Avidius wrongful arrest with a bump to the head. [hence some memory loss]
A simply theory: Todd Howard has a prison fetish.
Pretty much every mainline elder scrolls game other than daggerfall had you start in as a prisoner, I'm pretty sure arena is the only one with a clear cut reason: jagar tharn basically had you imprisoned after he banished the emperor and one of his generals (who was your adoptive father) to oblivion
A few specific details that stick out to me:
1. The player character doesn't know why they are in prison.
2. The player doesn't seem to have been in prison for much longer than they have been conscious.
3. The guard doesn't know why a prisoner is in that specific cell.
4. Nobody else knows specifically why the player is there either.
5. The Emperor seems to know the most about the situation, and speaks heavily about the divine's hand in your meeting.
I'll elaborate a bit more on why each detail sticks out to me:
1. The player doesn't know why they are there. There's a theory I've seen before based on a dialogue interaction that necrophilia is what got you arrested. The player in this interaction appears to know some deeper specifics about the penalty for being arrested for such a thing, as well as the harsher treatment for repeat offenders. However, if the player had been arrested for this, it would be abundantly obvious why they were in prison. Knowing the specifics of the charge would imply that if it was they themselves being charged, the player would remember this and as such wouldn't be questioning why they are there. It's much more likely therefore that however the player came to know this information, it's secondhand knowledge and not based on anything that happened to them specifically.
2. The player seems to have only arrived recently. Dreth's behavior makes it rather clear that he's only just meeting you when you wake up, and given his statement about being let out soon we can infer that he's been here for a while already. This combined with the player character's own confusion about being here confirms that their arrival was quite recent.
3. The guard takes note and concern regarding a prisoner being in this cell. It's also worth pointing out that the guard doesn't seem to recognize you. His concern makes sense if you consider the likelihood that they have a specific policy to NEVER use that cell for inmates because of the secret passageway that leads out. The cell exists entirely as part of a disguised escape route for the Emperor in the event he ever needs a safe way out of the city. The guard not recognizing you is also worth noting because if you had been charged with something such as with the necrophilia theory and especially given how recently your detainment would have been, he should know exactly who you are and why you were detained.
4. Nobody seems to drop specifics regarding the player character's arrest and imprisonment. The Blades for instance look down on you as a prisoner, but never say anything about what you did to become one. Even Dreth doesn't mutter anything about it, and given his toxic disposition towards you he absolutely would have something spiteful to say about it if he knew. As far as anyone's disposition to you at this point is concerned, you're just some prisoner, and not anything more specific than that.
5. The Emperor talks a lot about how he saw you in his dreams and that the divines must have arranged the meeting between the two of you. He seems to be the one who knows the most about what's going on out of anyone, and while he still doesn't know all that much he's very deliberately putting emphasis on the gods involvement in your being there at that place and time.
With all this in mind, here's the best conclusion I can come to:
I do believe that the player has a past. They were not popped into existence in that moment. They do have skills built up by a lifetime of doing... Something, and they do generally have an idea about how society functions in this world and how to get by. However, given the mass confusion going around regarding the player's appearance in that cell, I do not believe that they actually committed a crime to get there. Based on what the player character does and does not know, the best explanation I can come up with is that they are actually a citizen of Cyrodiil, but not one of the current timeframe. The player was plucked out of the past by at least one deity and brought to what is the future from their point of view without warning, explanation, or any other information.
In Skyrim, the player character is arrested when trying to cross the border north into Skyrim only to fall into an imperial ambush, seeming symbolic of the transition from one game to the next. The same might be true of Oblivion. The player is someone who was plucked out of the time period of Morrowind and plopped into the time period of Oblivion by some divine being with a plan to save Cyrodiil from the threat facing it at that time, symbolically transitioning from one game to the next. In the process, this divine also adjusted their clothes to fit in within the prison, perhaps to make them as much of a nobody in this time as possible and/or to assign special significance to the Emperor placing his trust in them. I can't say for sure which divine or divines would have been involved in this plan, but I do think there would be a certain irony if rather than any of the nine it was actually Sheogorath who schemed the whole thing up for his own purposes given the events of the Shivering Isles DLC. It's kinda funny to think of Cyrodiil being saved as a side consequence of Sheogorath preparing his chosen champion to put an end to the Greymarch.
this all makes sense until you think about morrowind being less than a decade ago from oblivion
I think Daggerfall is the only entry in the main series where the player doesn't start as a prisoner, since Arena literally opens with you breaking out of prison, just like you do in Oblivion. In Daggerfall, by contrast, you are actually a friend or at least trusted agent of the Emperor and are sent personally to Iliac Bay as an imperial agent, with no mention of a pardon or prison sentence.
To go off your theory, I think what happened was not only were they wrongly accused, but awaiting trail. It makes sense that there was a mixup with someone just thrown in a random cell to await some sort of trial or conviction.
honestly the first theory just makes the most sense, your character doesnt even know about the gods or anything about the world he is in.
9:50 The issue with this theory is it's explicitly stated the Aedra can't create anything without exacting a significant loss to themselves. It took the vast majority of Aedra just to help Kynareth create a small amount of the worlds foliage. Creating Mortals nearly killed the 8 Divines, and Oblivion and the Daedra exist specifically because they refused to create *anything* in mundus in order to retain themselves, opting only to alter what had already been created. Akatosh lost nearly all of his remaining power just in creating the Amulet of Kings and Auriel's bow. The power Akatosh regained when the Amulet of Kings was destroyed was enough for him to manifest and fight off Mehrunes Dagon for *10 seconds.* Creating a new living being from nothing would require leveling a small chunk of Secunda.
That being said: they can still influence people. Like granting a Septim the greatest Mysticism abilities ever.
Most TES games involve the player being arrested on questionable charges and carted off somewhere against their will, and in each circumstance while Uriel Septim VII is alive he's the one directly responsible for placing you where you need to be. Champion of Tamriel, Agent of Daggerfall, and the Nerevarine were all hand picked by Uriel Septim, arrested, and conscripted to fulfill a vision he had of his empire's success. Uriel VII being the most powerful Mystic to ever live in TES means he has the ability to divine future events decades in advance and converse with Daedric Princes on equal footing. He *knew* Jagar Tharns', King Lysandas', Azura's, and Mankar Cameron's plans in advance by 50 years and made plans to ensure the safety of Tamriel well beyond what his visions couldn't show him.
It's not entirely out of character to say Uriel could've orchestrated the Hero of Kvatch's *birth* specifically to aid Martin, knowing what he did just to find/create the Nerevarine. As for why he acts like he doesn't know why you're in jail, to quote Caius Cosades: "That's how the empire operates. Let not the Left hand know what the Right is doing."
When I play, my character is in there for accidentally shooting a town guard in the knee. 😂
Now I find myself imagining the story in Elder Scrolls 6 as the Emperor saying, "All right, release everyone in prison out onto the streets!" "What?! Why would we do that?" "Because one of them has to be the destined hero that saves us all! The track record speaks for itself; the Nerevarine was some random prisoner getting off a boat to Vvardenfel, the Hero of Kvatch was some random prisoner who no one knows why they were locked up, and I don't even know what crime the Dragonborn committed that made that Imperial Captain prioritize their execution over Ulfric Stormcloak's!"
Theorizing about this completely defeats the purpose of it. It's literally a blank slate start that you create your own reasons for. Even a good character could have been framed or in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even in Skyrim you're caught crossing the border. Why you were crossing the border is what you create your own reason for.
I’ve always thought that it was one of the Aedra, either Talos or Akatosh that intentionally set things in motion to get the Hero locked up into the Imperial Prison so he would be in place to meet Emperor Septim. I doubt that none of the Aedra didn’t notice Mehrunes Dagon planning on entering the realm once the Dragonfires goes out, so they made sure that a Champion would be in the right place to get the Amulet and get it to Martin.
Considering that whatever crimes the Hero was imprisoned for was “forgiven” when he escaped, it wouldn’t have been something severe.
I like to think the Hero was a drunk tourist.
The guards didn't know who it is, and just put 'em in the special cell to let him sleep it off.
Hence why the character doesn't remember anything, why you got placed in the unused prison, and after escaping no guard tries to immediatly arrest you.
The crossing the border drunk theory is so far my favorite and oddly enough the most plausible.
Headcanon for my hero of kvatch is that they were around when one of Uriels sons got killed. The mythic dawn agents had fled the scene, and the hero was conveniently close to the body for a guard captain to arrest them and sent to the imperial prison for interrogation at a later date
I like to think that the main character is insane before getting arrested and sent to the Prison in the Imperial City.
Because he or she becomes Sheogorath at the end of the game. Skyrim the next game has some dialouge to prove it too.
Every faction and DLC is canon in that they all happened. But it's not canon that the same person did all the questlines. It wouldn't make sense for the leader of the Dark Brotherhood to also become the Divine Crusader. Likewise it makes no sense for the Divine Crusader (a servant of the Nine Divines!) to become Sheogorath.
Some might argue since Shivering Isles is DLC it's more canon, but so is Knights of the Nine. I never do both in a single playthrough because they are simply not compatible. Keep in mind, as well, that this is the same studio that invented the concept of a Dragon Break because they didn't want to force an ending on us when there's a choice.
Not everyone becomes Sheogorath. Therefore it's not canon. It's only canon that someone mantled Sheogorath. Whoever it was did live through the Oblivion Crisis, so him saying that he was there for the whole affair doesn't prove anything.
@@Aewon84 Even being the Divine Crusader as The Listener of the Dark Brotherhood could make sense considering the fact that the Prophet has unique dialogue if you tell him you listen for the night mother.
Prophet: Are you a worthy knight?
Player: No. I listen for the Night Mother.
Prophet: The gods will find you an interesting plaything.
I agree with the first part, but for the rest, I feel the hero is an agent of akatosh. Akatosh picked the hero at random, probably a homeless bum, and when akatosh chose them, they went insane, ran rampant throughout the imperial city, and was stopped by the guards. Then snapped out of it, without any memory whatsoever, waking up in the cell.
Actually, picking a class at the end of the tutorial implies that we were created and placed in the cell by divine power. If our class truly rpresents skills we already know then we should already be in possion of those skills before the story begins. Likewise, the fact that we have no Birthsign is more evidence that we did not exist before the start of the story. Presumably, a birthsign is something we get at birth (otherwise the name makes no sense whatsoever). If we existed before the story started, we would already be in possion of a birthsign and we would already have a class.
i have never looked at that absolute ballcrusher chandelier cage before, tbh i don't think i ever looked in the cells hallway before, ty for sharing
I suspect necrophilia; the alchemist in Skingrad asks what the punishment for it is and the player knows how much the fine is
In this case I'm pretty certain that by "lesser men" Baurus is referring to the fact that Uriel is royalty and has the dragon blood. Don't think it's supposed to be a dig at the pc.
The emperor had dreams of the player character. He gave your character's decription to the guards ordered your arrest. Up until skyrim, Lorkhan was giving the emperor dreams about your character, thats how you always ended up in his custody.
Alternatively the hero of Vvardenfell was directly guided to his destiny by the hand of Ashura, the divine with the most subtle yet constant presence in Cyrodiil is Nocturne, with an entire quest line dedicated to putting a character's name back onto the Elder Scrolls themselves after she removed a thief from the collective memories of the world. When not in Mask the first meeting with The Grey Fox he is surprised that you even noticed his presence and with repeated dialog he comes to point out that it's been years since anyone has approached him. That would infer the hand of Nocturne in the reason that neither the player nor anyone else remembers your crime.
My personal theory is that the character was something of an independent footpad whom Nocturne chose as most suitable replacement for her personal servant in the capital city.
In Skyrim we learned from the Nightingale quests that she controls the fates of all thieves and that when her favor is strong the thieves are invisible, but not matter their skills if they are easily caught when she is unhappy.
Another approach is that by some chance the character touched the Mask of Nocturne, becoming the Grey Fox in the eyes of the gaurds for enough time to get arrested, but not enough for the memories to set into reality. Officially getting arrested in a case of mistaken identity, and then getting the crime memory holled the next time the forgotten count put the mask on himself.
It’s so odd that in every elder scrolls the player is captured for one reason or another.
The player was jailed for picking up a fork and dropping it back on the table.