Part 15 MicroHydro Power System in CO
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 лип 2015
- If you wish to donate: www.paypal.me/MrHydrohead or click the Super Thanks button under the video
STARTUP was accomplished on Summer Solstice June 21, 2015, a fitting date. Whew! What a ton of work. Thanks for all the encouraging comments and patience. All is running fine, but it's just a start as we will scale up with more water and improvements to come. Stay Tuned for REFINEMENTS - Навчання та стиль
Thank you for documenting this project from start to finish. You did a great job of it. It truly was fascinating to watch.
+Mike Sheahan Thanks for the appreciation. A couple more videos to come on refinements and remote control systems. please subscribe and stay tuned.
Job well done Sir! Like many others I stumbled upon your series and couldn't stop watching until I saw every episode. You're diligence and patience really paid off.
Just spent my evening watching the entire series. Absolutely fantastic! Really enjoyed watching along your journey with this system! Keep up the great videos :-)
Hey, glad you liked the vids. More to come. Lots of things to still do.
You're an absolute legend and it makes me so happy to know there are people like you out there.
this is some sick stuff, I enjoyed watching your story
What a journey - thank you for sharing this with all of us! =)
What a satisfying moment. This was a great series to watch!
glad your day finally came. i have watch and learned so much form your videos. i can't weight to stat on my own micro hydro project. still collecting pipe and water data to find the right size of turbine getting about 1000 gpm at 10 feet of head. hoping to get 2000 watts out of it. keep up the good work
Great job there guy!
Micro hydro has great potential in a rural hilly / mountainous wet environment.
The world needs more of these.
Thanks for posting the project.
Thanks for watching. I agree and that's one of the reasons I made the series.
I watched from video 4 to Start~Up. I could not stop thinking how fortunate you are to have the resources (money) and experience (IQ) to make all this work.
Congratulations on an excellent completed project.
+Austin L. Thanks so much. I am so very fortunate and grateful for it. Upgrading the system was seen as a necessity after the drought conditions of two years ago combined with the changes in the water table on the springs. In the long run I hope my work has enhanced the value of the property. Its been a ton of work and I'm still not yet done. Soon the water from the creek will reach the meadow, but that's a subject for another video.
I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your project! I am indeed very inspired by your hard work and dedication to utilizing renewable energy resources. It would be my dream to live 'off grid' and help others do the same.
WOW! (jaw hits floor) I, too, found this series this morning and couldn't stop watching until I saw the entire series. I'm so impressed. Job well done!
I just moved to the country myself and began designing a system to utilize the sun and wind for power generation. I'll tell you one thing. It pails in comparison to this. Sun and wind are not nearly as powerful as the strength of flowing, ever-changing water conditions. Keep up the great work. Can't wait to see more!
Thanks again for sharing. You've inspired me to keep moving and make it happen.
+Naked Machinist
Thanks for your enthusiasm. Congrats on beginning your own power process. Yes the nice thing about hydro is it is pretty much perpetual with the exception of seasonal flows or drought. Whether it is AC or DC it just keeps collecting energy. Old simple tech too. If its AC, heat is the natural storage, at least until producing and storing hydrogen becomes practical. If DC batteries and inverting to AC is great. Batteries can be a pain, and I had adequate potential to go AC. Someday I hope to have an affordable vehicle to use the excess.
There will be a new vid up in the next few weeks. Its shot, just not edited, narrated, mixed, or scored. Stay tuned and thanks again for your interest. My system is just the first I plan to chronicle. I hope to document projects ranging from small DC to Utility scale as time goes by. A fun hobby for me.
I've been eagerly waiting and so happy to see your system live. Huge congratulations to you in an epic achievement. I am now looking for property with a stream I can too utilise. It may be years down the line but I'll get there.
thank you again.
another very well put together and informative video, thank you for this. One day I hope to run my own property from Hydro power. :)
Absolutely wonderfully explained!Thank you so much for your educational help for the world!!shalom
thx for watching. I never know who has seen what. Watch parts 20-1,2,3 for a synopsis of the whole project. This is a playlist of those 3 parts: ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html
Well done project :) I really love it
I Wish I could have done this project once in my life
This is the most promising vdo for us in the remote Himalaya , India
Thx for watching I'm never sure who has seen what of the series. Here is a playlist of the 3 part synopsis which is an overview of the whole process ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html
The whole series is in about 25 videos.
watched from start to finish just couldnt drag myself away!
+Centurion Aotearoa Thanks for the appreciation. A couple more vids to come on my system on refinements and remote control systems. From there the channel will look to document other people's systems and spread the knowledge.
What a magnificent project! Kudo's to you and your team!
Thx for watching
Man, that is awesome! I like the humming birds in the first and end of the vid. The system is just beautiful! I love to experiment with natural ways to solve a problem like power and water from a spring, instead of miles and miles of rusty nasty pipes and other contaminates who knows what is in it by the time it gets to you. Power is a very great achievement of man. To have it made from natural resources is a better achievement than companies burning up the rest of the renewable energy polluting the ground, water, and air. Which all of those things we must have to live. I have taken many notes on your system and to see it run is just fascinating and wonderful! Thank you for bringing us along.
I couldn't agree more with your comment. Still more work for me to perfect the project, but I'm passionate as you can tell. The best part is sharing the ideas and seeing a positive response. Thank you for your support.
No problem at all!
Very good I really enjoyed your videos, I also learnt somethingJohn is quite impressed about.Many thanks and keep up the good videos, Will be seeing you soon One day.
I've been waiting for months for this part. Fantastic job guys and what a journey. I bet it was well worth the time and effort. Give me a couple of days and I'll send you a basic plan for a greenhouse that would also cope with your winters. Plants need light to grow as well as the right temperatures. Light is cheaper to generate and this design helps keep the heat in with as much natural light as possible before using artificial ones. Just add extra light and some heat for the worst part of winter ;-)
(love that intro with the Humming Birds)
Way too much to comment on. I second all the positive comments on your achievements. You are an impressive guy in many ways.
Thanks for watching
very nice... free electricity is always great,, and using hydro power to do it, is awesome. My property does not have a creek, only a well so for me it will be wind and solar...
A self made steel man.😎😎😎😎way to go buddy
Some really clever solutions... very nice.
Amazing job !!!
i watched all the videos awesome!! plus learned alot thanks!!
+alan rock Very welcome, my pleasure to share the knowledge.
Amazing job, sir! Very nice!!
Thanks for your interest. It's been a big job.
awesome! would love to do something like this one day
This video was the bomb!! Thank you!!
thx for watching!
Magnificent !!
This is something I dreamed about back in the 70's
Me too. I was fortunate enough not to pursue the dream of creating a place like this
Me too. I was fortunate enough not to pursue the dream of creating a place like this
just watched part 15, very very interesting.....
Just saw video cool set up 👍
Better than any science program you see on TV!
Thx for watching. I never know who has seen what. Watch parts 20-1,2,3 for a synopsis of the whole project. This is a playlist of those 3 parts: ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html
Been waiting for this one! Blast it! I was in Colorado on the 21th and I was trying to remember where you were located. Had I known, you would have had an uninvited guest for the startup. Anyhow congratulations on a beautiful thing. Project and videos well DONE!
Thanks Joel, You would have been welcome. Too bad you missed the virgin run. We are between Montrose and Gunnison on the western slope of the Rockies.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
Oldman master good job ...
Thanks for watching. If you haven't seen it check out parts 20-1,2,3 which are a synopsis of it all.
Wow. Must learn.
MrHydrohead, I have a system too only a 25 kw. I have also a new lima mac 60 kw 3 phase i got out of utah from a farmer still on the crate. I was later thinking installing but we will see. The last year they were made in the states I was told. I see with your fernco fittings. Try adding a small rolled piece of s.s steel sheet metal and add 2 more pipe clamps this will increase more psi. I wish I had a neighbor like the one you have. I have never been to colorada but i hear it is a beautiful place and steep mountains to put in a pipeline. There are other tricks to add to this but I love the videos. I am not as technical with a computer as you are but I cannot wait for the next video I have been following for quite some time. Those people in kimberley sure are a great bunch of folks.Just prepare to sell off a first born )). Keep up the great work.
+robert howell Thanks for your input. Next video will be about refinements, but it will be a while until I complete them, shoot video, and edit and post it.
To Norman McGill, no reply button available on your post(don't know why, says LINKED COMMENT, dont know what that means) but I will repost an earlier reply to the same question I made 2 months ago. Lots of people ask the same question
"It's a good question, but very difficult to answer. First, one would have to amortize the cost of laying in grid power in 1994. At the time of the switchover the system had produced 145,000 kWh for a basic cost of $25,000 versus $140,000 for laying powerlines. Add $52,000 of current development costs and you are paying for all the future power generation in the systems lifetime. You would also need need to subtract the cost of line power over the last 19 years to determine the cost per kilowatt hour over the first system's history. The other reality is that the present level of power production is maybe 1/5 of what we eventually hope to accomplish.
Ultimately because it is AC you have to use whatever power you are generating at the time you're generating it. Living off grid with hydropower means that you use more power than you usually would, you run appliances more frequently, have access to using large electric tools, you always have hot water available at no cost, can defray the cost of heating your home in winter, and you are paying for all future power at the beginning. So, it becomes a lifestyle choice. Are you willing to pay for all of your future power upfront and have no environmental impact and thereby increase the asset value of your property, or are you buying into the centralized system with power production which at this point is based about 50% down to 42% on coal for power generation over the life of the current system.
Changing one's approach/reliance on the polluting centralized system requires planning, commitment, and patience. It is not something most people are willing to undertake, or have the financial wherewithal to complete. I got lucky and found myself able to pursue this undertaking nearly 25 years ago and am fortunate enough to share my experience via the Internet which has developed in the interim.
Hopefully people somewhere in the world will find the information useful."
+MrHydrohead I've learned so much from just watching the latter half of this series and I have been researching ALL related trades/skills/technologies discussed in this and other videos for just about a year now, but this series is/was the most inclusive of all the other channels I've watched. Thank you so much for sharing this project thus far!
Michael J
You are very welcome. My goal has been to share some detail of the knowledge I've gained over years working with this tried and true way of harnessing green energy. It is rewarding to hear a comment like yours. Thank YOU. More to come...
Every m,ans dream, nice job. How often does the power company come out to read the meter? lol
+Electronicdawg
Like...never. I love it.
MrHydrohead so it costs 25grand to set up and instale this at home ?
Well from my childhood i ever made diagrams of down hill turbine which can be bought down by micro high breed turbine and fascinated to see the blades they were same like I made in drawings....so exited to see it working in real life
The pelton cup design was first developed in the 1890's by no less than Nikola Tesla. Its actually very old an simple tech. Efficiencies have certainly come about over the years. Thanks for watching
Nice working ☺️☺️
Thanks for watching!
Pelton may be good for large kinetic energy flow with small flow rate...
Alignment is critical
Good job. indeed. concratulation.
+Birol eroglu Thank you. It's fun to share.
Unfortunately in the UK there is very little chance of ever doing such a setup as this. We have the old Basingstoke canal closed because bats use a tunnel. A whole 30 odd miles of canal almost useless because of the lesser twit eared green bottomed flatulence bat. A nice small metal boat full of old lorry tires springs to mind. There must be a sensible balance between nature and us humans but sometimes ( in fact now most times ) it's the greenies that win out. I'm surprised they haven't stopped us cutting our lawns, can you imagine the agony that grass goes through. I am an engineer of the old school and your installation is truly excellent in every way. Very expensive I suspect but it's so nice to see something so well thought out and built. What a wonderfull design the Pelton wheel is. It must be a swine to machine though.
ok dang it i gotta go mow my lawn .. getting too into your vids bro =) lol
LOL thx for watching and the kind comment
Just watched the whole series. Thanks you for documenting the process. Can you include a picture of the generator name plate in future video. thank you. I look forward to future updates.
+bluefish001
Sorry for the delay in response. send an email to lenserman@gmail.com and I'll forward a shot of the name plate. Can't post here and its a bit too specific for most viewers, so not sure how to fit into the upcoming videos.
You are the reall engineer (Ee&Me)
Thx for watching
So happy to see this to completion. I've been following your progress with much anticipation, and glad that you're finally making juice!
A small request: Can you make a video where you follow (walk?) the way from the source to the powerhouse?
I was about to buy a property with a water fall and a total drop of 40' on the property and make something like you did. I worked for Babcock and Wilcox for 20 years working on process control, so the electronic portion I can handle. I was surprised your small pelton wheel could put out that much power at 100 psi. I was going to make one by molding all the cups, or whatever they are called. I wasn't going to use the deflector to control the speed, but to control the flow in the nozzle.
Yes, we get a lot more power than we actually can put to full time use. We turn down the flow in non-winter seasons.
Here is a link to a self made pelton wheel. They had varying pressure sources, so they customized pelton wheels to compensate for that. ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html
This family is now third generation into hydro I believe. They have several videos on their system.
I never know who has seen what. Watch parts 20-1,2,3 for a synopsis of our whole project. This is a playlist of those 3 parts: ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html
thx for watching
Real Green Energy :D
That is very cool, thanks for taking us along on this journey. One question you mention water rights does that cost you anything, like a yearly fee or something?
In Colorado, you file in water court for conditional water rights either through a lawyer or by yourself(pro se). There is a filing fee. If the court grants the right, it is conditional and they are good for 7 years and must be filed for every 7 yrs. until you prove beneficial use, then you can file to make them absolute. Once granted, absolute water rights remain permanent and no need to refile. Microhydro is considered non consumptive(into pipe, out of pipe), and not too difficult to get.
thatguyoverthization h
Absolutely wonderful documentation on this process. Like most everyone else who just found this, I had to power-watch the entire series. But I have to tell you, as much as I've thought hydro-power's the way to go, your videos -- as great as they all are -- has made me think the process is way beyond what I could reasonably hope to complete. How many contractors did you have working with you? Are you a hydraulic engineer or have you picked up these skills through living with your first spring-fed system? In any event, these were really good. Danke sehn for being so thorough!
+Paul in Germany
Glad you liked the videos. My system is one specific example of what can be done. Each installation is unique. I had one contractor, this mainly because I don't own digging equipment and he also built my house and has so many skills I do not possess. I'm a retired cinematographer and just a curious person who wanted green off grid freedom. I initially learned about the how-to by taking a class at Solar Energy Intl. in 1993 when there was little information available about micro hydro.
www.solarenergy.org/micro-hydro-training/
I designed the spring system during my class with the help of the instructors and of course I learned a great deal of practical knowledge over the 19 years operating it. Access to info is so much more broad now on the internet. Night and day, then to now.
I admit my new installation is a big project, but I just wanted to maximize the resource I had available with the equipment I already owned. My hand was sort of forced by drought and aquifer circumstances. There is nothing to prevent doing something far simpler with a 1" to 2" poly pipe and a DC alternator pelton connected to DC/batteries/inverter at much lower cost and effort. I had the water resource and chose not to deal with batteries. Hence AC. I also looked to enhance the value of the property for the day I might sell it when I get older.
I hope my example is not something that would discourage anyone from pursuing a smaller project. Really, hydro is a great way to go as it works 24/7, is low maintenance, old proven technology, and as green as anything out there.
Watching the generator run after watching all your hard work was so satisfying.Reading that the project was only 52K is amazing and I'm sure it's because you did so much of the work yourself.
I would love to see a video of your usage of the power in your house and how, if you modify your use to allow for a lower but continuous form of generation. IE Do you have to shut down air conditioning to rum oven? ect. Do you think creek flow will ever reduce like what happened to your spring?
PS I have never seem any video that made me as homesick for Colorado like your videos do. Your filming style and choice of background music make me wish I was there helping you. Beautiful land, beautiful house and a one of a kind video series, Bravo.
house,.
Thanks for the kind comments. We have lived with the amount of power coming from Hydro for many years so we have learned to pay attention to how much power we are using to not overload the system. We are at 8600 feet so there is no AC involved. Cooling the house at night is adequate to keep it cool all day. With this new system the problem gets to be how to use all the power we generate. For this reason during the summertime the power is set between 1500 and 2000 W, Providing 36 to 48 kWh per day. This allows us to run most any appliance during the day singly. Additionally we have unlimited amounts of hot water with that amount of power.
The system is still being enlarged and not complete yet. In the winter we hope to eventually provide all of the power we need to heat the house which has in floor heating and is passive solar design.
Hopefully climate change will not create huge droughts that will vastly impact the flow of the creek.
Thanks for the kind comments. We have lived with the amount of power coming from Hydro for many years so we have learned to pay attention to how much power we are using to not overload the system. We are at 8600 feet so there is no AC involved. Cooling the house at night is adequate to keep it cool all day. With this new system the problem gets to be how to use all the power we generate. For this reason during the summertime the power is set between 1500 and 2000 W, Providing 36 to 48 kWh per day. This allows us to run most any appliance during the day singly. Additionally we have unlimited amounts of hot water with that amount of power.
The system is still being enlarged and not complete yet. In the winter we hope to eventually provide all of the power we need to heat the house which has in floor heating and is passive solar design.
Hopefully climate change will not create huge droughts that will vastly impact the flow of the creek.
Maybe I'm a rookie but so much work, so much money and time that can break in multiple places just for mere 3.2 KW... Wanna say it's cheaper and more powerful than installing a wind turbine?
+Anton Z. Yes, one drawback to micro hydro is that you pay for all future power up front. However, the system will produce 8.5KW once the load to handle that is installed and could be bumped up to 12KW if I could figure out how to use the power. Don't currently have a need for 12x24 = 288kwh/day. A Wind turbine wouldn't provide consistent power in this location and the choice to avoid batteries was made nearly 22 years ago when system was first installed. We can live quite comfortably on 8.5 kW and manage the peak demands as needed. Thanks for the thought just the same.
MrHydrohead. Amazing work, I really enjoyed learning about and watching your project. What a beautiful place! Since you are so experienced on this subject I thought you might be able to help us with a hypothetical question. We are working on a science fair project for my daughter. We are trying to determine how much electrical energy we could produce from a vertical tank of water via a mini hydro turbine setup. In theory, if we had 10000 gals held in a tank that is basically 6 ft in diameter and 48 feet tall, how much electrical energy could be produced using a pelton wheel if a nozzle placed at the base of the tank was opened allowing the tank to drain. I know there are all sorts of variables and other thermodynamic concerns.The goal is to produce electricity at a rate of 2KwH and then determine how long we could do that before the potential energy dropped below that threshold. The idea is a hydrobattery using excess solar energy to store potential energy in the form of water in the tank for night time use .There are no running streams or hills where we live. We are trying to determine if a system like this is in any way feasible. What is possible? What would such a system look like? Perhaps it would take six such tanks to get through the night. Can you offer any thoughts on how to determine this or suggest resources that might help? The physics get complicated very quickly. I thought I should ask you before I get much further. Thank you if you can offer any advice...
Its a very interesting question. The two essential components in analysis are Head(pressure) and Flow(Volume). Because you are essentially proposing a column of water that drains to a different head the pressure would be constantly falling and hence requiring an ever increasing flow to maintain a set output of 2kw. You would need to produce 2kw for 1 hour for 2kwh. I'm not sophisticated enough to do this type of analysis.
The usual path is to determine the two constants of head and flow and then see what is possible in terms of power. Your hypothetical approach is to determine power output first and then try to determine the other two factors which would both be widely variable in a setup as you have described.
It is an interesting idea, but beyond my computational skills. I know that 48 ft of head is 48/2.31 = 20.78psi which is not a great deal of pressure and it would be rapidly decreasing as the tank drained. Hence by the time it falls to 30ft you have 30/2.31 = 13psi and so on. To produce 2kw of power the flow would need to be exponentially increasing to compensate for the loss of pressure. And how would you control the flow? I would think that a pelton(reaction) turbine would be less effective than a Francis(impulse) turbine with a draft tube.
The fact that the two most important measures are not fixed but fully variable makes the calculation complex.
My knowledge is mainly around my own pelton setup and I continue to learn about the technology of it all as time goes by. Sorry I can't be of more help.
Hello, thanks for your reply. Upon further investigation I found the exact discussion on home power magazine's website in case any other readers are interested.. It is in no way feasible. Once I found the equations it was clear. Anyway, I would like to compare their equations with other observed numbers from someone like you. Can I ask, in your system. what a typical amount of out put you have in watts given a certain flow(gpm). How much head does your system have again? How many rpms are you getting at the generator shaft? Thanks.
We have two settings for flow. Winter is about 300gpm resulting in about 8500watts. The Dynamic Pressure(flowing) drops to about 86psi due to pipe friction with that volume of water. The Static Pressure(at rest) is about 98psi or 98*2.31 = 226ft of head. The Spring/Summer/Fall setting is less because we don't need all the excess heat and haven't yet fitted a hot tub or other useful dump load to utilize the 8500w. The lower setting is about 145gpm at 96psi(dynamic) and yields about 3600-3700w. The speed of the generator is 1800rpm, but that is driven by a pulley system which steps up the rpm from the turbine shaft. The speed of the water jet which is a result of the dynamic pressure governs the speed at which the pelton can rotate under load and it is insufficient to get 1800rpm, hence the pulley step up. Can't remember the ratio at this moment. Hope this helps...
Good day
Intentionally it has been made sufesticated it can be made in a very simple
Could be. True, but we wanted a clean bulletproof installation for our rebuild of the first system. Thx for watching
Very nice video. Only video I have seen so far explained properly. Do you run it 24x7 ?
24/7/365 we run the power year Round. We have two power settings 7500 W for winter and 4500 W for the remainder of the year. Thanks for watching
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed this video. Renewable power can save a lot more than just humanity! How much money did you spend working on this? I'm curious it's a great power system
That initial system cost around 25k in 1996 dollars. We also got gravity pressurized domestic water and a pond for raising fish at that price.
When we moved the existing equipment to the creek we incurred additional costs of around 55k in 2015 dollars because we needed a full redesign of penstock, powerhouse, transmission and load management.
People often ask how long it will take to payback the system, but this neglects to consider that we would have had to spend about $140k in 1995 to bring power lines 7 miles into the off grid property. That estimate had ballooned to $250-300k by 2015 when we moved the system. We would have had to pay that to bring power lines in and then had power bills to pay on top of that. So it was a no brainer to install our own system at either juncture and the question of payback was/is a moot question. We look at the installation as an asset investment in the overall property.
Thx for watching I'm never sure who has seen what of the series. Here is a playlist of the 3 part synopsis which is an overview of the whole process ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html
The whole series is in about 25 videos.
@@mrhydrohead Thanks for your answer. Definitely it's a great power system and soon you're gonna get Your investment back. Great job! Did you get tax credit?
my English is not very good....
1 KVA turbine power couple ?
2- How many meters fall ?
3- What is the flow ?
4- The total cost how much ?
5- Project available? If the current is gönderebilirmi ?
There's just one fault, the weakest link is the belt drive, we were forever changing belts on our generators, never again. All ours are Direct Drive now. The bearings get grease every 5 or 6 years, that's it in Maintence now.
hiteck007 Belts were required for proper ratio to get 1800rpm at generator. Redesign shown in other segments shows far reduced pressure which turbine rpm is governed by. Haven’t changed belts since install in 2015, so no real fault here. Grease every 4-6 months and bearings are now at 23+ yrs. All works fine. Thx for watching
good series of videos,,,but now that its done what was total cost,,,i know you said 27 amps,,,could you tell me the flow needed for that and i think you said head was 200ft or so,,thanks
Actually the project isn't fully completed yet. So far the cost of relocating the system has run at about 52K. Most costs from here will be small. We are currently running 35-40amps with the intention of nearly doubling the capacity of the output. Of course to do that we need to add a great deal more load to the supply = load equation. We are in the process of doing that now and also adding Coanda intake screens for filtering and remote monitoring and control capability.
The reason for the slow progress is that we took the lion share of year to prep and sell our other home and permanently move to this property. Spring thru Fall power requirements are easily met by the 35-40amps and never having spent a complete Winter here there are uncertainties about maximum available water and potential freezing issues with the creek diversion. Its a chicken/egg scenario as to knowing how much water you have to make power in the time of year when the greatest need exists and properly installing the correct amount of load on the system to balance the power production.
Our static PSI is 98 which means roughly 2.31* 98 = 226.4 Feet of head. Flow varies with seasons, but to answer your question 27amps would be roughly 125-130gpm. We currently run an estimated 170-200gpm to generate 35-40amps. The pressure(active) drops a bit at the higher flow due to pipe friction, but its not a big loss at 96-94PSI resulting active pressure. We estimate that most of the year Spring-Fall we have 350+gpm, but flows in the dead of Winter are uncertain. Thats why we are taking our time to max the system out. Hoping for that same 350+ flow, but not certain yet.
Thanks for watching. Subscribe for more in the future.
I suppose after spending thousands of dollars on a hydro electric power system to make your own power, my question would be "where does the "free" electricity part kick in ?
Excellent video and most interesting project. I have a few questions if you don't mind me asking.You may have covered this and perhaps I missed it, but do you get any tax breaks for this like they do for solar? Can you sell "extra" power back to the power company and about how long will it take to recoup the cost of the project? Thanks again for doing this video, it was as if I couldn't put down a good book.
+Jamie Norton Thanks for the appreciation. I am truly off-grid(7miles from grid) so no chance of subsidies. I looked into credits, but the ones I found mostly applied to solar and this being a redesign of an existing system it was not clear whether it would apply for any tax credits. The one's I found were county based on sales taxes on the purchase of new equipment, so I decided to not pursue it. Payback is a tricky question, as I have now produced over 147,000 KWH since installation back in 1994 including the new system which is now about 100 KWH a day and soon to be increased. Initial cost in 1994 was 25K, but I also got gravity pressure spring water and a trout pond out of that. The improvements are mainly pipe, powerhouse construction, transmission line, and labor costs. No new power generating equipment, just reconfiguration. With the increased power output and 56K into the redesign, it is still a deal. The bid I was given in 1994 was about 140K to run power to me and then I would have had to pay for power monthly. On the whole its been a great savings in my view, but ultimately a lifestyle choice. Hydro is a very comfortable way to live with more power than you generally need.
Great video, but the background music is too loud for listening on laptop speakers.
How is the system currently feed by the river? In a previous video you had to remove the lines from the river to the meadow due to the extreme winter runoff, this was not addressed in any video since. Maybe I missed it though.
+kbates666 You are observant and your question is VERY timely. Just yesterday, I finally accomplished getting the creek water into the meadow, a process that has been intended, cogitated, and worked towards for more than 10 years. Yippee! After consulting with the water commissioner on my water right this summer, I chose to move the equipment and put the system online with the existing meadow water that gets fed by runoff from a spring fed lake about 1/2 mile away. The existing water was what we had to control when we built the weir in part 9 of the series: ua-cam.com/video/FYSvpKPr_Ns/v-deo.html The coming videos will explain the problems of getting creek water into the meadow in greater detail. Whew! Glad its now flowing, it seems forever since I started the planning of all this.
The transformer hums because it doesn’t know the words.
what is static head height of pond versus input to impeller? Hydraulic horsepower requires a few hundred psi at a certain gpm flow.
.433 psi times head height minus friction loss in pipe and efficiency of impeller determine actual horse power. One HP= 746 watts...You must have several hundred feet of head to produce that power....
Static pressure is ~96psi x 2.31 = ~222ft of head. As flow increasesyes friction takes its toll and drops to around 86 psi at max single nozzle flow of ~300gpm or 2/3 of a cfs.
Effective power harnessed is ~8kw. which is plenty to live and heat with
Thx for watching
at 2:11, are those turbine impellers damaged? Awesome series, btw.... I have a small solar project on my place.
Not at all. Pelting cup design has a cut in the outer diameter area to allow the jet stream of water to most efficiently hit the most power producing part of the water cups perpendicular to the jetstream. This Pelton shows zero damage after 19 years of near continuous use. Spring water has nearly no sediment which would cause erosion.
Congrats on the solar. It's all good! Thanks for watching. Give a thumbs up if you like.
quick question anyone can answer this if you like but coming from someone who has been using this setup for a few years now how does winter effect the efficiency of this device.
+J Regy Good question. We actually produce more power in the winter as our need for heat usage is much higher. In terms of the efficiency of the system, there really isn't any impact. The screen develops an ice crust covering it but still screens out debris without clogging. The turbine runs the same and the water flows year round. Hope this answers your question. If not can you be more specific
Average home I assume uses no more then 35 to 40KWHs per day if that unless you have energy hog appliances that are older and not energy efficient. But yeah its neat how electricity can be made.
Yeah we have to turn the flow down in all seasons but Winter. We get super cold weather at times (-13° this past week), but we also get a great deal of passive solar gain when the sun is out (85-90° indoors at times). Electric heat balances out most of the needs for heat. Its a huge amount of power we can harness.
I'm curious what's the efficiency of the system? Far as amount of energy coming in amount of energy being generated and amount of energy being used?
all the boost Good question. My estimate is roughly 85%. It is difficult to know exactly how much water moves through the system, how precise the mechanical pressure gauge is, how much torque is lost in the sheaves and belts, or what quantity of electricity is lost in transmission and lost as heat in the transformer. Add to that that in summer we run the system at lower flows which changes the efficiency of both the alternator and transformer output. We capture ~8kw continuously in winter and 4.5kw in other seasons due to not having enough uses to put all available power to work. The Winter setting of 8kw has been adequate to heat the house and an outdoor hot tub at 8600ft with temp ranging 0-40's Fahrenheit. Definitely an abundance of power, but exact precision in efficiency measurements are both difficult and academic. Calculators I've used estimate ~80-85%. Hopefully this helps answer your question. Thanks for watching.
Excellent videos. Thank you for sharing. I’m looking to establish my own hydro system and would like to know more about the generator your using. Where can I get one? Can you please post brand name, model and possibly distributor? Thank you.
My turbine came from
www.canyonhydro.com/. Far more expensive today than 1996 when i bought. Model is what they call a 1051.
Generator was made by Lima which was acquired years ago by
www.marathonelectric.com/
Model was a lima SER250S1230 10kw brushless
Hope this helps. If i can give you further assistance, let me know.
Best of luck!
MrHydrohead Thank you very much for your incredibly prompt response. That info is very helpful. Best of luck on your homestead and continued success on your UA-cam channel. Your videos are extremely helpful.
Really interesting project, can you please all equipment list ?
I could, but every system at every site is different depending on the parameters of the site and the need for power and the quantity harnessed. Beside that, our equipment was originally purchased back in 1996 when there were far fewer options and a lot less easily accessible information. It all costs more today from those suppliers and there are numerous other options in the marketplace.
Most of the penstock is just std. plumbing chosen for its pressure characteristics. Many parts were sourced off ebay or craigslist.
The Turbine was made by Canyon industries of Deming WA www.canyonhydro.com, the Generator by Lima which was bought out by Marathon www.marathongenerators.com/generators/index.jsp and the load controller was made by Thomson & Howe out of Canada. facebook.com/pages/Thomson-Howe-Energy-Systems-Inc/214294835610086. The 480v transformer was made by Acme and purchased 2nd hand.
I hope this helps, but as I said each install is pretty much custom and a product of your ingenuity. If you watch the whole series you will get a better idea of the whole process of design and installation. Thanks for watching. Here is a playlist of the 3 part synopsis which is an overview of the whole process ua-cam.com/play/PLtTypVpmDd-vkT9bJQkXw4I1t0e_4jMYA.html The whole series is in about 25 videos.
so damn cool!
Hi, great system, I’ll like to design a similar system overseas could I get your advice.
Potentially, yes. Email me MrHydrohead @gmail.com.
Interesting. However, after watching a few of these video's your pipe line would freeze in the winter that close to the surface. The intake at the dam would also cake over with ice. You turn off the system when the temp drops to a given level?
We haven't yet experienced any problems such as you outline. So far we've had several weeks of temps in the 2-22F area. Moving water is hard to freeze. The intake remains below the water level and the creek runs all winter. Also the snow on the ground tends to insulate the ground somewhat from the sub freezing air at night. It is possible we may encounter problems, indeed freezing is one of the biggest risks, but so far the system just keeps running and making power.
+MrHydrohead Good luck then. I have replaced pipe in an irrigation project so I have a tendency to look at where I made mistakes in the past.
I appreciate the input. I'll document the results pro or con either way.
Nice Projekt! But why u controle the frequency by putting dummy load on it, and not by controling the amount of water comming in the turbine? U can use a fast actuator on a valve for controlle. this protects your gear from wear, and makes it more efficient.
greetings from Germany
Glad you like the project, thanks for watching. Multiple reasons for my choice. 1st not sure if you watched whole video series, but I am relocating an existing installation and the added cost of an actuator would be a large added expense. 2nd there is no shortage of water available, so efficiency is not really a big issue. 3rd, the dump loads are as much as possible going to be beneficial uses for heating. 4th sudden changes in water flow can potentially produce a destructive water ram effect. 5th when I put the system in during 1996! the education I got was that mechanical flow control was more expensive and more maintenance required. 6th and last, the turbine and generator are both very heavy duty quality devices and have run with minimal wear now for 19 years, so no great concern on equipment wear. Probably another reason would be slowing speed of water in pipe in winter might be an issue with fragile ice forming, not certain on this one but just speculating. Hope this all makes sense. Greeting back to you from Colorado!
Yea, that makes total sense! :D I might think often too komplex. In your case of using creek, the benefits of an water flow kontrolle are useless. Dose the genset run 24/7 ? I work with emergency diesel generators, the maschines often just run about 100-200 hours in 20 years and I wonder how much damege these things have in this less runingtime.
Yes it does run 24/7. I currently turned it down a bit to about 2100w even though there is a lot more water available. About 51-52 kwh/day. That's a lot of power, the typical US home averages about 30 kwh/ day. The excess that we don't just becomes heat and in the summer no need to heat my basement up. Yeah we have a military grade gas genset 10k from first bush Iraq war. Run it almost never and I wonder about it too. I imagine water vapor creates corrosion internally on both gas and diesel, but probably less on diesel.
What kind of motor you are using please let me know. Thanks
We use mainly 1 & 2 horse power motors with no problem. Larger 5 HP motors are run offa gas gen set we own
Why did you make the change from direct drive to a belt drive system?
Good question. The lower pressure on the pipe line in the creek means that the jet of water will not be moving as fast as it did in the springfed system. That speed of water jet needs to turn the turbine at an output of 1800 RPM for the generator to work properly. The reduce pressure was not fast enough to turn the turbine at 1800 RPM. So the pulley system steps up the speed from the turbine to the generator. Hope this makes sense thanks for watching
Probably been asked a bunch of times, but curious what the total cost of the project was (material & outside labor)?
+Jake Jones Reposting a previous answer to a similar question:
"It's a good question, but very difficult to answer. First, one would have to amortize the cost of laying in grid power in 1994. At the time of the switchover the system had produced 145,000 kWh for a basic cost of $25,000 versus $140,000 for laying powerlines. Add $52,000 of current development costs and you are paying for all the future power generation in the systems lifetime. You would also need need to subtract the cost of line power over the last 19 years to determine the cost per kilowatt hour over the first system's history. The other reality is that the present level of power production is maybe 1/5 of what we eventually hope to accomplish.
Ultimately because it is AC you have to use whatever power you are generating at the time you're generating it. Living off grid with hydropower means that you use more power than you usually would, you run appliances more frequently, have access to using large electric tools, you always have hot water available at no cost, can defray the cost of heating your home in winter, and you are paying for all future power at the beginning. So, it becomes a lifestyle choice. Are you willing to pay for all of your future power upfront and have no environmental impact and thereby increase the asset value of your property, or are you buying into the centralized system with power production which at this point is based about 50% down to 42% on coal for power generation over the life of the current system.
Changing one's approach/reliance on the polluting centralized system requires planning, commitment, and patience. It is not something most people are willing to undertake, or have the financial wherewithal to complete. I got lucky and found myself able to pursue this undertaking nearly 25 years ago and am fortunate enough to share my experience via the Internet which has developed in the interim.
Hopefully people somewhere in the world will find the information useful."
Where did you buy the turbine and generator from and the pipes and gear?
Turbine came from Canyon Hydro in Deming Washington, generator was mfr by Lima out of Ohio which has since been taken over by Marathon, the Load controller is Thomsen Howe out of Canada and the pipes and everything else was locally sourced. Thx for watching.
Can you not string a second generator to a pully wheel attached to the first generator at a 1:1 turn speed to double your power output?
The power generated is the result of available torque. Torque = Power. That torque comes from the pressure of water on the pelton cups in the turbine. Adding a second generator as you describe would double the magnetic resistances and you wouldn't end up with more power. Just more expense and inefficiency introduced via more frictional loss from added equipment.
Anyway, we produce more power than we actually need with the current design.
Thanks for that, but if you are connecting the second gen directly same size pulley etc, the speed is controlled by the rotational velocity of the first, so there is no chance of the second generator needing overspeed protection. There is only loss in energy during the acceleration phase, once the generators are up to speed, doesn't the energy requirement plateau, so you will end up using energy that would otherwise be supressed by magnetic overspeed protection. Im not disrespecting you, I am fascinated, and curious.
The electricity used is constantly monitored and controlled by an electronic load controller (ELC) to stay at 60 hz. This is the LOAD on the system which is reflected in the generator as magnetic resistance. Its like a backward magnetic push against the torque pushing forward against it. The load needs to be equal to the available torque (power) coming from the water jet pushing the turbine to remain at 60 hz.
If you added a second generator and added that output to the system the LOAD on each generator would be roughly half of what it would be with a single generator. The combined magnetic resistance from the two generators would still need to be equal to the available torque or power or the system would slow down. You would most likely have issues synchonizing the sine waves of the the two generators. But ultimately load (magnetic resistance) has to equal power or torque
When you have a gas generator running and you turn on a heavy load (adding magnetic resistance in the generator coils) you will usually hear the gas engine slow and then work harder to produce more power to be equal to the load and maintain 60 hz.
In the hydro system the available power remains constant and the load is maintained constant by the ELC shunting off a portion of the power to resistance loads ( heaters). It does this by watching the hz of the system and adjusting the load to remain at 60 hz. If you turn on a toaster or light or whatever, a proportional amount of power is removed from the shunt load by the ELC. You can’t create kinetic power or torque out of thin air.
You can’t use more electricity without adding load to the system. Simply adding another generator would actually make it all more difficult to manage it to where load = torque.
I hope this explains it better. Perhaps viewing more of the series might clarify it. Maybe watch all of part 14 if the series
m.ua-cam.com/video/1c8AYt6C2P4/v-deo.html
What is your head?
Section pipe.
Production average?
may I ask an estimate of costs for total system?
Original spring fed system was about $25k in 1996 with pipeline, pond, powerhouse and electrical equipment. The redesign 2013-7 was around $55k all in. With hydro you pay for all future power up front
where can i find the music you use? love your series.
Due to copyright issues I created the music myself. It really is not commercially available. I’m glad you like the series. Thanks for watching
@@mrhydrohead the music is amazing. i would love if you could upload it to youtube to listen to
@@Qx5630gUgB I’ll give that some thought. If I do I’ll send you some links if you can give me your email to MrHydrohead@gmail.com. Very few have commented on the music
so what is the pay off of all that was done. when will I pay for itself. is this just for one house or for a community.
mellender0 It's a good question, but very difficult to answer. First, one would have to amortize the cost of laying in grid power in 1994. At the time of the switchover the system had produced 145,000 kWh for a basic cost of $25,000 versus $140,000 for laying powerlines. Add $52,000 of current development costs and you are paying for all the future power generation in the systems lifetime. You would also need need to subtract the cost of line power over the last 19 years to determine the cost per kilowatt hour over the first system's history. The other reality is that the present level of power production is maybe 1/5 of what we eventually hope to accomplish.
Ultimately because it is AC you have to use whatever power you are generating at the time you're generating it. Living off grid with hydropower means that you use more power than you usually would, you run appliances more frequently, have access to using large electric tools, you always have hot water available at no cost, can defray the cost of heating your home in winter, and you are paying for all future power at the beginning. So, it becomes a lifestyle choice. Are you willing to pay for all of your future power upfront and have no environmental impact and thereby increase the asset value of your property, or are you buying into the centralized system with power production which at this point is based about 50% down to 42% on coal for power generation over the life of the current system.
Changing one's approach/reliance on the polluting centralized system requires planning, commitment, and patience. It is not something most people are willing to undertake, or have the financial wherewithal to complete. I got lucky and found myself able to pursue this undertaking nearly 25 years ago and am fortunate enough to share my experience via the Internet which has developed in the interim.
Hopefully people somewhere in the world will find the information useful.
where did you buy the generator, and which model is it?
The generator was purchased way back in 1996 and the Lima Electric Company was purchased by Marathon Generators, so numbers now are probably different as the product line has been changed. The model was a Marathon Lima 3250-1230, 250 Frame 1800rpm. It has 12 leads and can be wired in numerous configurations: Delta, Wye or Zig Zag for 110v to 480v depending on need. We originally had it wired Delta 240v when generating from the springs but changed it to Zig-Zag 480v when we moved the system to the creek. I never know who has seen what of the series, so check out the whole video series for more detail. Hope this helps, thx for watching!
Why didn't you go for direct drive instead of a belt between the turbine and the generator?
NeuPluppy Good question. Lower pressure means lower jet speed. The speed of the waterjet determines the speed of a turbine and the pressure of the new water source cannot produce the 1800 rpm which the generator head requires. So a pulley ratio is required.
@@mrhydrohead Oh it was kinda obvious then. My mind was focused on the friction part, and I can see now when I watched again that you had the ratio information in the video :)
i still dont understand where you find just a generator head, everytime i try to search for one it just shows me gas generators, ive seen people using permanent magnet induction motors as generators, is this what you are doing
The specific generator i have is a 10kw Lima 250 frame sold now by Marathon. Of course Lima electric co was bought out by Marathon since 1995 when i bought it ($2100). The numbers and prices have most likely changed since then. Mine was # SER 250S1230 and no its not permanent magnet. It has an automatic regulator with coils that create the exciter field. It can be wired in numerous manners for different output. Try googling “lima generators for sale” or speak with someone at Marathon about your specific needs. They are very helpful.
Https://www.marathongenerators.com/generators//iomManuals.jsp
has links to all their manuals past and present. My manual is SB364 on that webpage
Hope this helps😁
@@mrhydrohead 10kw is enough to power all your appliances?
Yes and I don't even use the full capacity of the generator. In winter I generate 7000-8000 watts and about 4000 watts other seasons because I don't need that much power. Of course I manage my use of heavy appliances and don't use them all at once. The excess power gets shunted by the load controller to heat water or space heaters as required.
4000w = 96kWh per day and 8000w= 192kWh per day. Average household use per day for most US households is around 30kWh
Did you say that you are using a Lima generator? From Lima Electric Company?
Philip M Crow Sr Yes, Lima made the unit which I purchased in 1996. The company was subsequently bought out by Marathon, but they still make similar models.
I am curious as to why you did not keep the generator in your original powerhouse and have 2 generators. It is not that hard to sync generators and once synced, you would have more power and some redundancy if one failed.
puppynosee Cost is primary. I was quoted $7.2K just to refurbish the turbine and create a frame and pulley system for the new installation. This didn't include shipping. I undertook to not accept the quote.
A new 2nd turbine and generator would go way beyond that and adds needless expense.
Also, how much power can be utilized? With the planned output there will be far more power produced than can be used at least in the summer. The excess just becomes waste heat, so in summer we throttle back the water flow used. Someday an electric car would be a good use of the excess power.
+MrHydrohead Your pelton wheel sure does not show wear in the cups a great find.
robert howell Yup, still very clean after 19 yrs of use. A testament to clean spring water as a source.
+MrHydrohead One spring I have is turned on 2 miles away but it is just for water summer use and never goes dry. It comes out of the bottom of an old growth stump so cold you cannot put your hand into the stream. Other springs I am tapped into I have to watch out for falling rocks over one is in a canyon. Good work though. Over the years you find out what works and does not work. How many psi do you normally run at?
why you did not bild house right on source?
It would be very noisy to live right atop the generator, and the stream wouldn't make for a good foundation.
3kw seems waay low for that system, if i help install more generators can i use that power then?
virus464 System is planned to be increased to 8.5KW as time, need, and funds provide. Not sure I understand how you would be able to share the power. Line grid is 7 miles from the property.
i would have some devices that could need that power very well, ud be suprised
+MrHydrohead i have so much enjoyed watching your journey and admire the amount of work you have had to do. can i ask do you sell any of your electric you genarate back to the power companies and if not now then do you plan this for later as a form of income. how far are you from the electric grid, is it possible to do this?....
In the mid 90's when the system was first installed the cost to put in a power line ran about $20K per mile and we are 7 miles from the grid. So, unfortunately we can't get any income stream from the power produced. It would be nice, but the whole original motivation was to avoid $140K install and power bills every month. The original $25K we put in the system has provided pressurized domestic spring water, a pond for raising trout, and over 143,000 kwh in the time since. The new installation of the same turbine/generator on the new pipeline will provide many times the power and hopefully fully heat the house in the winter and may one day charge an electric car if we can find an affordable model that is the right fit.
i would have an option to use the power immediately as is. the special computers would use the power to generate money if u will.
Where in Colorado is this system located?
thx for watching and sub! My wife is adamant about not revealing our location. I will say it is on the western slope, but sorry I can't be more precise.
How long will it take to get the investment in this system back?
His reply is at the very top.