years ago I owned a house in connemara an got my water from the river no mains water supply an I always wandered could i make electric from a mill , I wish i'd of know about this guy back then , what a smashing an inventive bloke he is , well done young man .
Dude I’m absolutely blown away with your work ethic. I thought the world was doomed because all skilled labor was lost. You have given me renewed hope there might just be a few more of you out there.
It's good to see you doing this sort of thing. You are building valuable system knowledge even if you don't see an immediate performance improvement. I like that you aren't just thinking in terms of the power produced but also what other affects air in the system may have (like erosion and cavitation damage). Great job.
Great work with your new stainless steel weir input. A thought came to mind regarding screen blockage. In the oil shipping industry there are occasional oil spills into the ocean which are contained by floating oil booms which contain the oil because it floats on the top of the water. Now, looking at the material which blocks the screen, mesh or coanda, it does so because it too floats on the surface of the water. So I believe that this material can be contained before it reaches the screen by having a flexible floating boom which prevents the material from drifting on the surface of the water and into the screen. The boom would rise and fall with changes in the weir water height. Each end of the boom would be attached to the inside wall of the weir so that material would not escape around the ends and into the screen. Floating debris would then logically move toward the overflow and down the spillway. As boom material, almost anything that is flexible and floats will do, something like swimming pool play noodles for example.
Hi Kris, this is a rare treat , the baffle is a great addition to the system, the more you perfect this the more saleable it is. A really well engineered project mate, all the best.
Incremental improvements all the time, the baffle looks great. Might not have a measurable effect now, but if you do go with more flow the improved intake will make things work so much better. Harbour hydro is already the best documented small scale hydro project on the internet and it just keeps getting better !! Can't wait......
Kris, you should introduce a horizontal section in the piping. And, if possible, a widening section. By doing this the air in the waterflow will go to the highest part off your system. And that’s the spot where you will have to ventilate the air out of the piping. The best spot would be a bit lower then the water-intake. 50 centimeters? Make the ventilation pipe higher then the level off the water-intake and the result will be a no-maintenance air vent system
what an absolutely beautiful design and concept, I plan on doing this by 2025 when I move overseas and start building on one of the islands.. my future family has some land and we will be discussing this soon! Thank you so much!
Great energy setup. When it rains it's cloudy so the turbine makes up for it, when it's windy it's probably dry and partly sunny so you have wind an solar, and for those hot dry sunny days you have plenty of solar to make up for it. I hope one day I can find a nice spot like yours.
It will also entrain air into the system because of the leak at the union. That noise you hear is the low pressure version of a fire service 'crackling jet' where air has been entrain and compressed and is the released with great force at the branch. Usually caused by air being drawn in either at the pump or one of the hose connections.
Excellent job and very educative.In Eritrea which is closer to the Sahara Desert, we have built a thousand dams in like 20 yrs time mainly for irrigation.Though I am not involved in the projects as an Eritrean I am now getting crazy with water technology.Sir pls visit our country some day
Such a smart fella . I am glued to the screen as I find all so very interesting. Excited to see what he shares next (I am currently binge watching) as I am new to his channel and loving it ..❣❣
I subscribed this channel because from this i can learn how to make electricity in my village where there is no electricity still in 2020 but when i get job I'm gonna make similar kind of setup and supply power to my home and my village. Great work by the man, he showed us that we can generate power without changing the landscape
Hi Kris, I am still of the opinion that if you put a horseshoe boom in front of the intake that floats on the water, that it will steer debris away from your grill.
I saw a first flush drain pipe connector the other day and thought of you hydro setup. It had an angled screen like your intake but it had a set of vertical blades on top of the screen to help larger debris glide right over the top without touching the screen - would probably be easy for you to fabricate to test if you were keen. System is looking good mate - cant believe you didnt get saturated changing that over!
My system is very similar to yours, to prevent vortex's, I lowered the outlet in the bottom of the pickup screen box, it is now 35cm below the water level. I also put a 45 degree bend on the inlet. I think the 45 degree bend down seemed to prevent the vortex better than deepening the filter box. In saying this, it was only a problem when I run greater than 50% water flow.
Always planning and adjusting - that's the way to get the best from any system. Tell me Kris was the water very cold (its winter here in NZ and I was freezing the whole time I was watching you) - but I guess its more summer time where you are. I liked your comment about getting the present system working to max efficiency before making other changes - like the nozzles.
The whole time I was thinking a squirrel would eventually find it's way up to his turbine house through there. "Why did my turbine stop running? Clogged? WTF how did a squirrel end up in my nozzles!?"
It maybe worth trying a one way valve on the standpipe so it doesn't let air enter the pipe ,it maybe sucking in air when the water in the pipe drops slightly ,if it were mine i would run another pipe down half way from a second intake and join it to the original pipe you would then increase the weight of water ,a motorised valve could be bodged i am sure to switch that second pipe off when there's not enough water available ,keep up the good work its very interesting seeing you overcome problems few will encounter
The water is oxygenated regardless and turbulence even submerged will cause cavitation. That makes me think a smaller opening might increase that risk but I wonder if you can raise the height of the dam instead? In any case it's fun to watch and I admire your ingenuity. Making your own windmill blades and getting them balanced was especially impressive!
Douglas Jotblad - Kris cannot increase the surface area of the pond created by the water system dam because the pond will then encroach on his neighbor's property. He explains this in the dam building video.
Another great vid Kris. I enjoy these little experiments to achieve a better functioning system. I didn't comment on your last video, but It was good to hear of the plans for the timber framed greenhouse. I'm really looking forward to seeing that project in the future.
I'm a chemical process engineer and design pipework for living. To solve the air problem you need to introduce an orifice plate into the tee at the outlet side . You need just enough of a restriction to force water to rise halfway up the standpipe to create a water lock. This will allow air to vent to atmosphere out of the standpipe, but the water trapped will prevent air from being drawn back in. If you want to go for a belt and braces approach you should double the arrangement with another standpipe in close proximity to the first This is because the pressure drop on the downward side of the orifice plate will cause dissolved air to drop out of solution and form bubbles (this is the same effect as cavitation on a propeller) and the second standpipe will allow this air to vent. Your solution of installing vortex breakers is standard industry practice in the outlets to large vessels where the vortex can cause emptying of the last bit of fluid to take forever and for air to be introduced into the pipework.
Doing as you say is fine in aqueducts not in hydroelectric, pressure drops are increased, rather the diameter of the pipeline from the filter leads to T, you can also use cheaper material since in that section there is not much pressure or depression, slowing down the speed of the water means that the air is not transported, then the coanda filters work much better if they do not have negative pressure underneath, which causes dirt to attack the grill, this is done with a stretch of larger pipe up to the breather or air intake T in the event of closure upstream which is missing.
@@winterburan Making the diameter of the pipe from the inlet filter to the tee larger than the rest of the pipework is effectively the same thing as adding a restriction below the tee ;-)
The lack of increase in power suggests that flow through the nozzles is maxed out and that you could increase the size somewhat. Also you could try extending the pick up pipe slightly to the rear of the box and out of the turbulent zone in front. We need to get you more energy storage capacity for when the rain is't falling, it would be a shame to waste all that lovely power when the stream flows well and the wind blows hard. Perhaps a heat storage system to dump energy into which could help heat the greenhouse when it is built Another great video, have fun experimenting.
Hi , in order to avoid any air inside of pipe, you need to create at list one meter deep tank, so the air have the time to go up, and you avoid the cortese as well, on 1983 on the Tigrit Rivera Iraq, I follow the digging of the 6 pomp, of two cubic meter a second, the concrete tank was 40 mt. Deep to avoid the vortex
Could you try the system without the stand pipe? As the negative pressure of the water flow could be causing a venturi effect and drawing air into the system, which would still cause a burping sound, but not because of air being released but because of air been drawn in???
Those fittings are huge. 4:20 makes you look a bit like a borrower doing some regular plumbing :) I think a stepper motor would work well for the nozzle and just use something like a sparkfun easy driver to control it via your Arduino setup. You would need an Endstop switch mounted vertically as it were to allow it to home to that position and then just work out how many steps closed to open to have the code just do it for you. It would even allow for incremental opening of the nozzle to whatever you want, could even do it via a potentiometer from your shed. Built something similar to open my chicken coop door in a morning.
To REALLY get the air out you want to slow the flow of the water down for a bit. Make a meter section out of steel or aluminium where you have your standpipe that is a square box much larger than the pipe. Simple enough to do and with a couple connection points can also act as the standpipe location, the water will slow way down and allow that air to completely raise to the surface. The standpipe will help when you have flow that doesn't suck the air down but when you open it all the way up my guess is that it will still draw air. Maybe it will make a difference maybe not but there is a couple watts there at the top end to have air not fighting the water flow.
Just a thought. If you were to slow down the water by at least doubling the diameter of the pipe between the intake and where your stand pipe is. With the slower larger mass of water. The air will more easily work it’s way back to the intake. Another nicety would be a check valve on the stand pipe. Letting air out but not in.
Have you thought of trying a trompe? Put even more air in and drop it through a deep bore and then back up to your hydro pipe. Could be another nice source of power. Run your shop in the winter.
I wonder if the extra stand pipes slightly hurts the flow. They might not be necessary any more with the much improved intake. Also a slightly rounded intake going into the pipe will help some to reduce pressure losses.
Hello kris I’m engineer faisal I advise you to put the intake down instead the water above the ground 5 inches and Put a large stone, then a small stone, than net before the entrance to prevent the entry of impurities I did try it 👍
Gotta say Kris, you've become a dab hand working with those pipes. I would have made a huge arse of that job, ended up far more soaked and probably swore a lot more too.
If your coander screen doesn't work. I used a stainless steel plate with slits cut in line with the water flow. I cut the slits with a disc grinder, they are 0.5mm wide, about 1 cm apart from each other and the length of the filter box. The water that doesn't get used through the screen washes the screen and keeps it clean. This screen design changed the cleaning I needed to do from every 3-4 days, to every 7-10 days, depending on rain, and my usage of water. If I don't want to clean it that regularly, I can just turn the turbine off for 5 min and all the water washes over the screen washing it.
13:02 - Would putting the white PVC pipe baffle higher in the box break up the vortex better AND clean the mesh or would it be likely to cause the vortex to happen again? Or if it 'sort of' worked higher up and cleaned the mesh, but reintroduced the vortex, would drilling a few variable sized holes or filing large grooves into the edges of the pipe help to break the water flow up? All theoretical ideas, but it's always good to try all manner of things when tuning things as you might hit on something you'd never have considered.
when I see this, I would definitely go another way. It's really cheap too if you want it to be. First, at a calm spot, where everything has settled to the bottom, make an inlet on a stainless steel plate with a mesh for debris, have that come out on the top of a big hole you digged that you made into a tank with concrete, or a nice wide rainwater tank, on the bottom of that tank, you connect your tubing. A lot more pressure that way, and at the dam you can control the flow rate of water for nature. no air in the system if you don't want it to. You can build your custom rainwater tank too you know, with sheets of plastic and at corners you use fiberglass or you weld the plastic sheets together with heat, it doesn't have to be thick because nature doesn't let it rip :-) Now you have 936 Watts, I think I can at least multiply this by 25, or is that too ambitious with the right generator and multiple pelton wheels ?
Have you thought about re-making the intake box so the down stream side and side walls are the same height as the upstream side? This way the water won't actually fall into the box but rather flow smoothly. The box will fill without turbulence.
of my clients used Red PVC Safety Plastic Road Cones as a starting point for the water intake solves some turbulence problems and easy filtering with grids
I think some of your air issues might be from turbulence in the Coanda box. If their was more water in the box above the outlet of the box it would take out the turbulence
Kris, with the black and blue pipe sections,. you need to brace the pipe with stones or boulders so it all lays 'level' (i.e. it doesn't have to ACTUALLY level, just so the joins aren't stressed with poor weight distribution etc) within its fitting so the joins aren't stressed due to them laying at awkward angles. Did that make any sense? lol, sorry, hard to effectively articulate what I meant.
Well done fella, I design hydros for a living and your work here is some of the best educational stuff ive seen, your doing it all right! 1.5 times pipe diameter depth in sump avoids the vortex but your baffle probs does the job which is great to see, milk crate works or floating grid, vortexs form at surface, well done and good luck! Adam, Ellergreen Hydro.. Im learning from you.. 👍
I used a piece of anti-fatigue rubber mat ( approximately 2cm thick black rubber with 4cm holes at 6cm centres) over the floating intake for my water pump in our farm dam. Had guys trying to sell us fancy (read that as expensive and high maintenance, difficult to clean) gadgets that were quite crap. I just used a piece of the mat about 40cm x 45cm, with the pipe going over the top, and a 90’ bend, and about 15cm straight down through the mat. Works an absolute treat. Haven’t even had to pull it out once in at least 6 years.
I'm wondering if your PSI gauge for the pressure in your system is full of air? The pipe it's attached to is straight up and down I believe. Would air in that section of pipe cause the PSI to read differently than if there was just water in there? Just a thought.
Funny enough, having air in that part will actually result in a more correct reading. If you have water in that pipe, it would register less pressure because the weight of the water would pull the pressure down (you'll lose the height of the pipe in head hight in a stationary situation). But air betting a lot lighter than water will just pass on the pressure. The air also can't escape, so won't cause bubbles in the actual flowing water. Though I guess the head is high enough that half a meter less or more doesn't matter.
I'm used to seeing exactly the same pipe at a much smaller gauge than the one you're using, and at about 2.34 it suddenly looked to me like you'd shrunk to about half size! Weird optical illusion.
Have you considered protecting the intake inside the metal box so that the air bubbles do not get in. You may make a curved pipe that takes water from the bottom of the metal box or maybe a plate (inside the box) from the top of the intake with a 45 degree down.
The water trap needs to be at least twice that size for the back pressure your looking for with a filtration sections in front of the inlet pipe filled with sand and another with charcoal using the same stainless steal screen. This would filter and deoxygenate the water also both minerals could be fashioned right on the site by burning wood and pulling sand from the stream bed or you could make the pond deeper. I know this was two years ago but its the first time seeing this and these are my thoughts it form my experiences of plumbing and filtration.
One could do that if they had a diverter installed, yet he does not have a way to divert the water. It really all depends on how the intake area is built up. If one builds a small dam such as this one and then builds in gates and sorts one could just close a gate and shut the water off and divert it to the steam. There are a number of ways this can be done.
@@kameljoe21 why not cut a piece of cardboard to apply over the intake screen and dam-cut. It would extend down into the dam pond and be held there underwater by a brick or suitable large stone. The water would run down the cardboard and very little would get through the screen. This sounds like more effort than putting up with the in-pipe-flow 🙃 and could be destructive to the dam-intake overflow area!
Just looking at the intake, bubbles are being introduced near the intake pipe, if you do another one I would elongate the box so all the bubbles rise before they get anywhere near the intake pipe. Along with the baffle, air should be unable to contaminate the water, as long as you have adequate flow. T PS, a bit of clear pipe might help to solve the prob, as you can tune any designs you make as you will see bubbles in the flow.
Ever think about making the box longer, in the direction of the pipe ? You could keep it enclosed with a lid with seals on the sides and bottom edge to prevent water leaking, and still be able to remove the lid if needed. The added space should increase the head pressure and help by moving the pipe away from the bubbles in the waterfall. The screen could remain the same and any water running over the top of the box would wash away any debris. It just looks like the box is to short, to much happening in a small space.
Hi Kris, What about a larger intake box... have one that will hold lots of water allowing the air to escape before going into the pipe. Your’s to me looks too short... the water comes over the dam right into the pipe... make it large enough three to four times it’s size... Your water enters the intake right where the pipe enters... air is almost a certainty... make the box longer... have the water enter beyond the pipe so it has to circle around filling the intake box but will (I think) purge the air. I figure you already did this but in the video when you were changing the standing pipe... after reassembling the pipes, they were leaking quite a bit... that also can be a major source of air.
Really great update on the Hydro project. I've been following very closely. If you made the pipe go further into the box would this avoid the cavitation area at the front. Could a simple board be put in front of the take off in the pond to temporally stop the water flow to allow work. Bit worried when you say about not putting you hand in with such a flow.
With regards any air that does get into the system, the main box you have in the shed where the 4 pipes come out, could you not fit a Automatic air vent pipe so any air that has made it down that far could escape before going into the jets ?
@@KrisHarbour - Water will raise a float that air will not. We use about a half dozen air relief valves in our water plant. They are designed to hold water and to vent off the air while under pressure by way of a ball float.
Yes. But I think you are forgetting that the entire volume of the manifold is replaced every 2.5 seconds. There isn’t air in there staying staying in one place long enough to go out a valve. Any air will be out the nozzles long before the valve even drops to open. I move 5l per second though that manifold on top of that as it opened and closed trying to keep up it would be causing water hammer up the penstock. I really can’t see that working at this scale. If the manifold was huge then maybe but not when it has such a volume moving though such a small space
@@KrisHarbour - No they definitely would not cause water hammer, your situation is exactly what they are designed for. No matter how fast the water is flowing the air is still pushed to the top of the pipe, unless the water is very turbulent, which yours shouldn't be. Then you need just a high spot, like a tee, to collect it, and the air valve will let it squeak out. We use them at a lot higher pressures and volumes on our 100mm well water lines.
@@KrisHarbour No water will come out, these are designed for this sole purpose, to let air out of a system but not water, Now whether it would work in your system with the amount of water flow ive no idea, i know alot of water 'could' pass through but once you have the water jets it works by pressure rather than volume so not alot of water is going through, could be worth a try to see if it can help to clear any air that has made it through to the bottom part.
Love the cat cameo lol. Mine have all been doing that non stop since I've been working from home full time hahaha. Well chuffed the hydro system is going well for you mate 👍 top notch job as usual!
Have u considered a LAMINAR FLOW FILTER after the collector to reduce the turbulence? It may decrease the chances of airlocks and increase the power output
slow the flow where the screen filter starts feeding into the pipe with a pipe inspection chamber to let most of the aerated water settle before going in to the main pipe and the rest of the bubble should come out with the standpipe assembly just my thoughts of a solution without needing a bush fix
For the standpipe cover take a pipe cap for a larger size pipe and drill and tap three or four holes around the OD and use pointed bolts to hold on the OD of the standpipe. Air will flow up and around the space between the cap and pipe. JIM
Will the water rushing past the bottom of the stand pipe not suck air in, I would of thought any air would be naturally pushed out of the jets.. Just a thought.
A large size holding tank would probably help you out. You need to be able to be winterized. If you can hold 2,000 gallons at the top that's 290 lb addition to whatever is in the lines. Certainly you have this in your head yes. You are running on the pressure that is in the lines. And if you want to do a larger trick. You need to reconsider how intake is implemented inside your pond lagoon if it was a lake it would be better. Of this the intake would be out there in the middle of the pond as deep as it can go. And though you have filtering a top of the water is draw is under. This gives you all that weight of the pond. I note hoover dam. But it also may get you out there in a boat in be picking off moss and all the other sticks.. well you're doing better than i am. I left all this decision in the mud hole of my father back 40.. you're making good videos and keeping us thinking good for you.
Tip for joining pipes with water flowing, join the ends that have no flow first, then the ends that have flow, you stay drier that way @Kris Harbour Natural Building
What about a Venturi in front of the pipe in the box sticking out 3 inches going in about 4.5" with a 2.5" flat nose tapered tear shaped, this should suck more water in and adding rotation screw cutouts to rotate the water in the right direction will encourage more flow and faster transition
Seen so many " lntakes ' where there is a wire mesh ( or similar contraption) placed at the top of intake box and water running over it. This always leads to clogging up and lack of flow. Dirt and debris has to be sucked into this idea whereas literally turning this idea UPSIDE DOWN will certainly solve this problem to large extent leaving much cleaner intake of water and less likely to clog up as gravity will help with solids and buoyant floats to top and away from intake. An overflow however must be retained preferably away from intake box to divert any natural debris to carry on its merry way down steam. Intake grid should not be too close to bottom to prevent suction of dirt from bottom.
This sound like a good idea in principle. But what do you mean by UPSIDE DOWN? If you mean the filter is lower down in the water box, then how would you clear heavy debris that sinks?
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years ago I owned a house in connemara an got my water from the river no mains water supply an I always wandered could i make electric from a mill , I wish i'd of know about this guy back then , what a smashing an inventive bloke he is , well done young man .
Dude I’m absolutely blown away with your work ethic. I thought the world was doomed because all skilled labor was lost. You have given me renewed hope there might just be a few more of you out there.
It's good to see you doing this sort of thing. You are building valuable system knowledge even if you don't see an immediate performance improvement. I like that you aren't just thinking in terms of the power produced but also what other affects air in the system may have (like erosion and cavitation damage). Great job.
Great work with your new stainless steel weir input.
A thought came to mind regarding screen blockage. In the oil shipping industry there are occasional oil spills into the ocean which are contained by floating oil booms which contain the oil because it floats on the top of the water. Now, looking at the material which blocks the screen, mesh or coanda, it does so because it too floats on the surface of the water. So I believe that this material can be contained before it reaches the screen by having a flexible floating boom which prevents the material from drifting on the surface of the water and into the screen. The boom would rise and fall with changes in the weir water height. Each end of the boom would be attached to the inside wall of the weir so that material would not escape around the ends and into the screen. Floating debris would then logically move toward the overflow and down the spillway.
As boom material, almost anything that is flexible and floats will do, something like swimming pool play noodles for example.
Hi Kris, this is a rare treat , the baffle is a great addition to the system, the more you perfect this the more saleable it is. A really well engineered project mate, all the best.
Incremental improvements all the time, the baffle looks great. Might not have a measurable effect now, but if you do go with more flow the improved intake will make things work so much better. Harbour hydro is already the best documented small scale hydro project on the internet and it just keeps getting better !! Can't wait......
Kris, you should introduce a horizontal section in the piping. And, if possible, a widening section. By doing this the air in the waterflow will go to the highest part off your system. And that’s the spot where you will have to ventilate the air out of the piping.
The best spot would be a bit lower then the water-intake. 50 centimeters? Make the ventilation pipe higher then the level off the water-intake and the result will be a no-maintenance air vent system
what an absolutely beautiful design and concept, I plan on doing this by 2025 when I move overseas and start building on one of the islands.. my future family has some land and we will be discussing this soon! Thank you so much!
Love your videos. My favorite channel these days. Appreciate you sharing all this with us.
Great energy setup. When it rains it's cloudy so the turbine makes up for it, when it's windy it's probably dry and partly sunny so you have wind an solar, and for those hot dry sunny days you have plenty of solar to make up for it. I hope one day I can find a nice spot like yours.
And when it's sunny in the uk it's still going to be raining so you get the best of both worlds haha
@@squarecoffee8750 How do you know when its sunny in England? When it isn't snowing or foggy.
It will also entrain air into the system because of the leak at the union. That noise you hear is the low pressure version of a fire service 'crackling jet' where air has been entrain and compressed and is the released with great force at the branch. Usually caused by air being drawn in either at the pump or one of the hose connections.
Excellent job and very educative.In Eritrea which is closer to the Sahara Desert, we have built a thousand dams in like 20 yrs time mainly for irrigation.Though I am not involved in the projects as an Eritrean I am now getting crazy with water technology.Sir pls visit our country some day
Such a smart fella . I am glued to the screen as I find all so very interesting. Excited to see what he shares next (I am currently binge watching) as I am new to his channel and loving it ..❣❣
I subscribed this channel because from this i can learn how to make electricity in my village where there is no electricity still in 2020 but when i get job I'm gonna make similar kind of setup and supply power to my home and my village.
Great work by the man, he showed us that we can generate power without changing the landscape
That is admirable. When you are ready do let me know and I will help where I can 👍
@@KrisHarbour oh thank you so much. when I'm capable and have enough capital I'll definately seek your help.
Hi Kris, I am still of the opinion that if you put a horseshoe boom in front of the intake that floats on the water, that it will steer debris away from your grill.
Love your observations and thoughts, try and adapt.
Free power with a reliable system.... awesome
I saw a first flush drain pipe connector the other day and thought of you hydro setup. It had an angled screen like your intake but it had a set of vertical blades on top of the screen to help larger debris glide right over the top without touching the screen - would probably be easy for you to fabricate to test if you were keen. System is looking good mate - cant believe you didnt get saturated changing that over!
For a sustainable and renewable energy resource....I accept to be a subscriber....stay well...
My system is very similar to yours, to prevent vortex's, I lowered the outlet in the bottom of the pickup screen box, it is now 35cm below the water level. I also put a 45 degree bend on the inlet. I think the 45 degree bend down seemed to prevent the vortex better than deepening the filter box. In saying this, it was only a problem when I run greater than 50% water flow.
Always interesting to follow along on your problem solving/troubleshooting missions. Thanks for sharing.
Always planning and adjusting - that's the way to get the best from any system. Tell me Kris was the water very cold (its winter here in NZ and I was freezing the whole time I was watching you) - but I guess its more summer time where you are. I liked your comment about getting the present system working to max efficiency before making other changes - like the nozzles.
Maybe a mesh over the standpipe is a good idea, in case debris getting in there.
The whole time I was thinking a squirrel would eventually find it's way up to his turbine house through there. "Why did my turbine stop running? Clogged? WTF how did a squirrel end up in my nozzles!?"
my thoughts exactly, screen off those breathers
......J pipe the top...so the hole is facing down.........screen to keep any birds from making a nest up in the J, lol.
few 90's and screen it off
@@RingingResonance or one nice plump toad.
It maybe worth trying a one way valve on the standpipe so it doesn't let air enter the pipe ,it maybe sucking in air when the water in the pipe drops slightly ,if it were mine i would run another pipe down half way from a second intake and join it to the original pipe you would then increase the weight of water ,a motorised valve could be bodged i am sure to switch that second pipe off when there's not enough water available ,keep up the good work its very interesting seeing you overcome problems few will encounter
The water is oxygenated regardless and turbulence even submerged will cause cavitation. That makes me think a smaller opening might increase that risk but I wonder if you can raise the height of the dam instead? In any case it's fun to watch and I admire your ingenuity. Making your own windmill blades and getting them balanced was especially impressive!
Douglas Jotblad - Kris cannot increase the surface area of the pond created by the water system dam because the pond will then encroach on his neighbor's property. He explains this in the dam building video.
One of the few channels I have notifications on for 🔥
You are right about keeping the air bubbles out of the supply because cavitation is very destructive.
Another great vid Kris. I enjoy these little experiments to achieve a better functioning system. I didn't comment on your last video, but It was good to hear of the plans for the timber framed greenhouse. I'm really looking forward to seeing that project in the future.
My son (5) just asked if you were a real person and if we could go visit you sometime. He really wants to look into the standpipe. :-)
I'm a chemical process engineer and design pipework for living. To solve the air problem you need to introduce an orifice plate into the tee at the outlet side . You need just enough of a restriction to force water to rise halfway up the standpipe to create a water lock. This will allow air to vent to atmosphere out of the standpipe, but the water trapped will prevent air from being drawn back in. If you want to go for a belt and braces approach you should double the arrangement with another standpipe in close proximity to the first This is because the pressure drop on the downward side of the orifice plate will cause dissolved air to drop out of solution and form bubbles (this is the same effect as cavitation on a propeller) and the second standpipe will allow this air to vent.
Your solution of installing vortex breakers is standard industry practice in the outlets to large vessels where the vortex can cause emptying of the last bit of fluid to take forever and for air to be introduced into the pipework.
Doing as you say is fine in aqueducts not in hydroelectric, pressure drops are increased, rather the diameter of the pipeline from the filter leads to T, you can also use cheaper material since in that section there is not much pressure or depression, slowing down the speed of the water means that the air is not transported, then the coanda filters work much better if they do not have negative pressure underneath, which causes dirt to attack the grill, this is done with a stretch of larger pipe up to the breather or air intake T in the event of closure upstream which is missing.
@@winterburan Making the diameter of the pipe from the inlet filter to the tee larger than the rest of the pipework is effectively the same thing as adding a restriction below the tee ;-)
Thank you thank you thank you for sharing your creative process with all of us! Love to watch you think out your projects!
The lack of increase in power suggests that flow through the nozzles is maxed out and that you could increase the size somewhat. Also you could try extending the pick up pipe slightly to the rear of the box and out of the turbulent zone in front.
We need to get you more energy storage capacity for when the rain is't falling, it would be a shame to waste all that lovely power when the stream flows well and the wind blows hard. Perhaps a heat storage system to dump energy into which could help heat the greenhouse when it is built
Another great video, have fun experimenting.
I wondering if he can't just add a second turbine inline and increase the power produced by 60-80%.
@@wes9451 There is no power left in the water that exits the turbine.
Man you are one smart energetic dude! ✌🏻. Great job on building everything, really cool. 👍🏻
Hey Jeff have any Niles family in Washington state?
Exactly my thoughts he’s amazing.
Very interesting, I agree with your thoughts. Thanks for your efforts filming and letting us see your different tries.
You got to be really proud of your efforts well done Kris
Hi , in order to avoid any air inside of pipe, you need to create at list one meter deep tank, so the air have the time to go up, and you avoid the cortese as well, on 1983 on the Tigrit Rivera Iraq, I follow the digging of the 6 pomp, of two cubic meter a second, the concrete tank was 40 mt. Deep to avoid the vortex
Could you try the system without the stand pipe? As the negative pressure of the water flow could be causing a venturi effect and drawing air into the system, which would still cause a burping sound, but not because of air being released but because of air been drawn in???
No way would a venturi effect pull air through that much head. Friction losses due to the T junction however...
You need a simple intake bypass (like a quick sheet of plywwood) to block off the water flow when you're working on the lines.
What a ball-ache for you. But, very insightful for us. Thanks for posting this. All the best buddy
Those fittings are huge. 4:20 makes you look a bit like a borrower doing some regular plumbing :)
I think a stepper motor would work well for the nozzle and just use something like a sparkfun easy driver to control it via your Arduino setup. You would need an Endstop switch mounted vertically as it were to allow it to home to that position and then just work out how many steps closed to open to have the code just do it for you. It would even allow for incremental opening of the nozzle to whatever you want, could even do it via a potentiometer from your shed. Built something similar to open my chicken coop door in a morning.
I think for less leakage on joint and longevity of system supporting the joints so they don't hang will help. Just a guess.
Yeah I agree 👍a support will be sure to follow once I’m 100% sure it staying like that
To REALLY get the air out you want to slow the flow of the water down for a bit. Make a meter section out of steel or aluminium where you have your standpipe that is a square box much larger than the pipe. Simple enough to do and with a couple connection points can also act as the standpipe location, the water will slow way down and allow that air to completely raise to the surface. The standpipe will help when you have flow that doesn't suck the air down but when you open it all the way up my guess is that it will still draw air. Maybe it will make a difference maybe not but there is a couple watts there at the top end to have air not fighting the water flow.
I really enjoy your videos. They make me happy, and are helping get me through this difficult time we are in. Keep up the great work!
You’re a very smart man. When I move to my off grid place in wales, I hope to hit you up as a consultant and hire your services! 😉🙏
Interesting, I thought air in there would have made a big difference. Thanks for the great content as always.
Ingenious. Top tip on hand getting sucked in, I hadn't though of that!
Just a thought. If you were to slow down the water by at least doubling the diameter of the pipe between the intake and where your stand pipe is. With the slower larger mass of water. The air will more easily work it’s way back to the intake. Another nicety would be a check valve on the stand pipe. Letting air out but not in.
Two videos in one week, it’s a summer Kristmas!
Kris is so resourceful he once made a camp by burning water 🤣💪🏻👍🏻
Have you thought of trying a trompe? Put even more air in and drop it through a deep bore and then back up to your hydro pipe. Could be another nice source of power. Run your shop in the winter.
It's really interesting to see how you improve things over time Kris, especially with that baffle! Always enjoy your updates!
I wonder if the extra stand pipes slightly hurts the flow. They might not be necessary any more with the much improved intake. Also a slightly rounded intake going into the pipe will help some to reduce pressure losses.
Nice work, as ever. Any interesting wildlife taking advantage of the new pond at the top?
Hello kris
I’m engineer faisal
I advise you to put the intake down instead the water above the ground 5 inches and Put a large stone, then a small stone, than net before the entrance to prevent the entry of impurities I did try it 👍
Down inside the water??
Gotta say Kris, you've become a dab hand working with those pipes. I would have made a huge arse of that job, ended up far more soaked and probably swore a lot more too.
If your coander screen doesn't work. I used a stainless steel plate with slits cut in line with the water flow. I cut the slits with a disc grinder, they are 0.5mm wide, about 1 cm apart from each other and the length of the filter box. The water that doesn't get used through the screen washes the screen and keeps it clean. This screen design changed the cleaning I needed to do from every 3-4 days, to every 7-10 days, depending on rain, and my usage of water. If I don't want to clean it that regularly, I can just turn the turbine off for 5 min and all the water washes over the screen washing it.
13:02 - Would putting the white PVC pipe baffle higher in the box break up the vortex better AND clean the mesh or would it be likely to cause the vortex to happen again? Or if it 'sort of' worked higher up and cleaned the mesh, but reintroduced the vortex, would drilling a few variable sized holes or filing large grooves into the edges of the pipe help to break the water flow up?
All theoretical ideas, but it's always good to try all manner of things when tuning things as you might hit on something you'd never have considered.
Good job mate. I probably would've chucked a plank across the weir gap to stop all the water while you're changing the joiners :p
when I see this, I would definitely go another way. It's really cheap too if you want it to be.
First, at a calm spot, where everything has settled to the bottom, make an inlet on a stainless steel plate with a mesh for debris, have that come out on the top of a big hole you digged that you made into a tank with concrete, or a nice wide rainwater tank, on the bottom of that tank, you connect your tubing. A lot more pressure that way, and at the dam you can control the flow rate of water for nature. no air in the system if you don't want it to. You can build your custom rainwater tank too you know, with sheets of plastic and at corners you use fiberglass or you weld the plastic sheets together with heat, it doesn't have to be thick because nature doesn't let it rip :-) Now you have 936 Watts, I think I can at least multiply this by 25, or is that too ambitious with the right generator and multiple pelton wheels ?
Have you thought about re-making the intake box so the down stream side and side walls are the same height as the upstream side? This way the water won't actually fall into the box but rather flow smoothly. The box will fill without turbulence.
Your hydro is the most interesting thing you do
of my clients used Red PVC Safety Plastic Road Cones as a starting point for the water intake
solves some turbulence problems and easy filtering with grids
I think some of your air issues might be from turbulence in the Coanda box. If their was more water in the box above the outlet of the box it would take out the turbulence
I love this stuff.
Don't know why I am an electrician it's easy stuff but just love it😂
Could you add an elbow pointed down inside the intake, so the water would be pulled off the bottom. So to leave the air bubbles floating on top?
Kris, with the black and blue pipe sections,. you need to brace the pipe with stones or boulders so it all lays 'level' (i.e. it doesn't have to ACTUALLY level, just so the joins aren't stressed with poor weight distribution etc) within its fitting so the joins aren't stressed due to them laying at awkward angles. Did that make any sense? lol, sorry, hard to effectively articulate what I meant.
And would help with trapped air if was more level!!
Well done fella, I design hydros for a living and your work here is some of the best educational stuff ive seen, your doing it all right! 1.5 times pipe diameter depth in sump avoids the vortex but your baffle probs does the job which is great to see, milk crate works or floating grid, vortexs form at surface, well done and good luck! Adam, Ellergreen Hydro.. Im learning from you.. 👍
Hi, thanks for commenting, it’s nice to hear that from a professional 👍
I used a piece of anti-fatigue rubber mat ( approximately 2cm thick black rubber with 4cm holes at 6cm centres) over the floating intake for my water pump in our farm dam. Had guys trying to sell us fancy (read that as expensive and high maintenance, difficult to clean) gadgets that were quite crap. I just used a piece of the mat about 40cm x 45cm, with the pipe going over the top, and a 90’ bend, and about 15cm straight down through the mat. Works an absolute treat. Haven’t even had to pull it out once in at least 6 years.
I'm wondering if your PSI gauge for the pressure in your system is full of air? The pipe it's attached to is straight up and down I believe. Would air in that section of pipe cause the PSI to read differently than if there was just water in there? Just a thought.
Funny enough, having air in that part will actually result in a more correct reading. If you have water in that pipe, it would register less pressure because the weight of the water would pull the pressure down (you'll lose the height of the pipe in head hight in a stationary situation). But air betting a lot lighter than water will just pass on the pressure. The air also can't escape, so won't cause bubbles in the actual flowing water.
Though I guess the head is high enough that half a meter less or more doesn't matter.
@@sanderd17 But air is compressible, whereas water isn't. So you should read a reduced pressure if you have air in the system.
I'm used to seeing exactly the same pipe at a much smaller gauge than the one you're using, and at about 2.34 it suddenly looked to me like you'd shrunk to about half size! Weird optical illusion.
Have you considered protecting the intake inside the metal box so that the air bubbles do not get in. You may make a curved pipe that takes water from the bottom of the metal box or maybe a plate (inside the box) from the top of the intake with a 45 degree down.
The water trap needs to be at least twice that size for the back pressure your looking for with a filtration sections in front of the inlet pipe filled with sand and another with charcoal using the same stainless steal screen. This would filter and deoxygenate the water also both minerals could be fashioned right on the site by burning wood and pulling sand from the stream bed or you could make the pond deeper. I know this was two years ago but its the first time seeing this and these are my thoughts it form my experiences of plumbing and filtration.
Could you not stop the water at the intake while you change the fittings? I assume there's a reason to keep the flow going...
One could do that if they had a diverter installed, yet he does not have a way to divert the water.
It really all depends on how the intake area is built up. If one builds a small dam such as this one and then builds in gates and sorts one could just close a gate and shut the water off and divert it to the steam. There are a number of ways this can be done.
@@kameljoe21 why not cut a piece of cardboard to apply over the intake screen and dam-cut. It would extend down into the dam pond and be held there underwater by a brick or suitable large stone. The water would run down the cardboard and very little would get through the screen.
This sounds like more effort than putting up with the in-pipe-flow 🙃 and could be destructive to the dam-intake overflow area!
Absolute class,,,wantyoudo the same on my farm in tyrone Ireland what price all in?
I love watching you work. You are so smart. 😁
Just looking at the intake, bubbles are being introduced near the intake pipe, if you do another one I would elongate the box so all the bubbles rise before they get anywhere near the intake pipe. Along with the baffle, air should be unable to contaminate the water, as long as you have adequate flow. T PS, a bit of clear pipe might help to solve the prob, as you can tune any designs you make as you will see bubbles in the flow.
Ever think about making the box longer, in the direction of the pipe ? You could keep it enclosed with a lid with seals on the sides and bottom edge to prevent water leaking, and still be able to remove the lid if needed. The added space should increase the head pressure and help by moving the pipe away from the bubbles in the waterfall. The screen could remain the same and any water running over the top of the box would wash away any debris. It just looks like the box is to short, to much happening in a small space.
Your land is Beautiful Bro! 😜 May the Almighty Bless you Always!
Hi Kris,
What about a larger intake box... have one that will hold lots of water allowing the air to escape before going into the pipe.
Your’s to me looks too short... the water comes over the dam right into the pipe... make it large enough three to four times it’s size...
Your water enters the intake right where the pipe enters... air is almost a certainty... make the box longer... have the water enter beyond the pipe so it has to circle around filling the intake box but will (I think) purge the air.
I figure you already did this but in the video when you were changing the standing pipe... after reassembling the pipes, they were leaking quite a bit... that also can be a major source of air.
Really great update on the Hydro project. I've been following very closely. If you made the pipe go further into the box would this avoid the cavitation area at the front. Could a simple board be put in front of the take off in the pond to temporally stop the water flow to allow work. Bit worried when you say about not putting you hand in with such a flow.
With regards any air that does get into the system, the main box you have in the shed where the 4 pipes come out, could you not fit a Automatic air vent pipe so any air that has made it down that far could escape before going into the jets ?
Air and water are both fluids any outlet for air would also let out water. Basically water would blast out at the speed of about 20m a second
@@KrisHarbour - Water will raise a float that air will not. We use about a half dozen air relief valves in our water plant. They are designed to hold water and to vent off the air while under pressure by way of a ball float.
Yes. But I think you are forgetting that the entire volume of the manifold is replaced every 2.5 seconds. There isn’t air in there staying staying in one place long enough to go out a valve. Any air will be out the nozzles long before the valve even drops to open. I move 5l per second though that manifold on top of that as it opened and closed trying to keep up it would be causing water hammer up the penstock. I really can’t see that working at this scale. If the manifold was huge then maybe but not when it has such a volume moving though such a small space
@@KrisHarbour - No they definitely would not cause water hammer, your situation is exactly what they are designed for. No matter how fast the water is flowing the air is still pushed to the top of the pipe, unless the water is very turbulent, which yours shouldn't be. Then you need just a high spot, like a tee, to collect it, and the air valve will let it squeak out. We use them at a lot higher pressures and volumes on our 100mm well water lines.
@@KrisHarbour No water will come out, these are designed for this sole purpose, to let air out of a system but not water,
Now whether it would work in your system with the amount of water flow ive no idea, i know alot of water 'could' pass through but once you have the water jets it works by pressure rather than volume so not alot of water is going through, could be worth a try to see if it can help to clear any air that has made it through to the bottom part.
I would use some magnets to hold down the shield. This way you can do some cleaning/maintanance whenever you are around without tools
Love the cat cameo lol. Mine have all been doing that non stop since I've been working from home full time hahaha. Well chuffed the hydro system is going well for you mate 👍 top notch job as usual!
Have u considered a LAMINAR FLOW FILTER after the collector to reduce the turbulence?
It may decrease the chances of airlocks and increase the power output
The performance improves your generator.
LT4320
A high rate improves substantially.
Cat was just adjusting the setpoint for you. He followed you up the hill earlier to check on progress....
slow the flow where the screen filter starts feeding into the pipe with a pipe inspection chamber to let most of the aerated water settle before going in to the main pipe and the rest of the bubble should come out with the standpipe assembly just my thoughts of a solution without needing a bush fix
now I need to find a place to live where there is a little stream to dam up :)
thanks for sharing :)
I know this is a year late but why did you not just put a board over the intake to reduce the flow as you are working on the pipes?
Great stuff. Where could I purchase the same kit from please ?
For the standpipe cover take a pipe cap for a larger size pipe and drill and tap three or four holes around the OD and use pointed bolts to hold on the OD of the standpipe. Air will flow up and around the space between the cap and pipe.
JIM
Will the water rushing past the bottom of the stand pipe not suck air in, I would of thought any air would be naturally pushed out of the jets.. Just a thought.
A large size holding tank would probably help you out. You need to be able to be winterized. If you can hold 2,000 gallons at the top that's 290 lb addition to whatever is in the lines. Certainly you have this in your head yes. You are running on the pressure that is in the lines. And if you want to do a larger trick. You need to reconsider how intake is implemented inside your pond lagoon if it was a lake it would be better. Of this the intake would be out there in the middle of the pond as deep as it can go. And though you have filtering a top of the water is draw is under. This gives you all that weight of the pond. I note hoover dam. But it also may get you out there in a boat in be picking off moss and all the other sticks.. well you're doing better than i am. I left all this decision in the mud hole of my father back 40.. you're making good videos and keeping us thinking good for you.
I love seeing you make everything work out Kris, thank you! 👍👍💯💯
Are you ever going to make a custom spanner? You seem to be taking the flanges apart often.
Tip for joining pipes with water flowing, join the ends that have no flow first, then the ends that have flow, you stay drier that way @Kris Harbour Natural Building
What if you make the intake much longer, like over a metre or two long, so that the air bubbles have time and space to go up?
Really enjoy watching your videos, keep them coming, great work
Hello Kris, will you build your next house with the cord wood technique? Or use a different one.
What about a Venturi in front of the pipe in the box sticking out 3 inches going in about 4.5" with a 2.5" flat nose tapered tear shaped, this should suck more water in and adding rotation screw cutouts to rotate the water in the right direction will encourage more flow and faster transition
If the standpipe does not contain a head of water in it surely it will pull air into the pipe?
Seen so many " lntakes ' where there is a wire mesh ( or similar contraption) placed at the top of intake box and water running over it.
This always leads to clogging up and lack of flow.
Dirt and debris has to be sucked into this idea whereas literally turning this idea UPSIDE DOWN will certainly solve this problem to large extent leaving much cleaner intake of water and less likely to clog up as gravity will help with solids and buoyant floats to top and away from intake.
An overflow however must be retained preferably away from intake box to divert any natural debris to carry on its merry way down steam.
Intake grid should not be too close to bottom to prevent suction of dirt from bottom.
This sound like a good idea in principle. But what do you mean by UPSIDE DOWN?
If you mean the filter is lower down in the water box, then how would you clear heavy debris that sinks?