I am infinitely grateful for your contribution to such technical topics that are not easy to find and even less to understand. You make what is intimidating and frightening at times seem easy, and you provide a firm and simple basis for approaching these complicated topics. Thank you very much Nick again, we will continue to learn much more from you.
This was gold for me, thank you very much. Just getting into tuning with an RTA instead of by ear, and this info is priceless. If you taught a class I would pay you
I was like "That's not all that smooth..." then I realized the scale you were using the dips and peaks along the FR were like 2dB or less. Thanks for another helpful video. I swear this is pretty much what Andy preaches. lol
Just beginning to tune and these vids haved helped immensely. As a beginner there are certainly mistakes I've made and come back to watch and try again. I will say It takes a long time to tune. At this point with my limited experience.
Thank you for uploading those videos. They 've been very helpful! @04:37 REW v5.18 doesn't set a LR24db slope as a target. It sets a butterworth filter. You can select a LR24db filter only at the latest beta version of REW (5.20)
Nice video and information about all pass filter to solved the some phasing problem. Do you have a video more about the advantage of all phase filter in helix? Thank a lot before and good luck for your business :)
Awesome video, and love your work mate :) I just had a mega light bulb moment. Been struggling a little with phase response and how to apply allpass correctly and this just made it click lol. I think i need that RTA software that looks killer. Thank you :)
Thanks for that video i have got one question. I thought when you measure more than 9ne speaker you have to us stereo pinkonoise. And in this video you said mono. So i am a bit confused i was probably wrong.
Thank you so much for sharing, I've learned so much by watching your videos. One quick question though. On a helix dsp, after setting your time alignment distances, is it better to get the drivers in phase by adjusting the time alignment itself, or would adjusting the phase angle be better? Thanks in advance, I can't wait until you post another tuning video!
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions thanks for the reply! I'm guessing that knowing the difference is the hard part. I was mostly curious of weather or not the phase angle delayed the signal like the time alignment, or if it changed the angle of where it started to produce the signal. It sounded like a much more coherent though before I typed it out.
Linquitz Riley 4th order gives a 360 degree rotation yes, so the drivers would be in phase but one full cycle off. So it's not perfect but close. One cycle off at 20 hz 60 feet long.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions Still can be in perfect phase throughout the crossover region, but it won’t sound right unless the one cycle off is fixed. Can’t fix that by just using a tape measure and adding delay based on driver location. How do you fix the one cycle off problem?
Do you use filters other than 24 dB LR? They helps in many things, such as reducing small time errors, or better protects tweeters. The acoustic filter is similar to electric, etc. And don't you feel that these filters sound a bit plastic. Is it better to use e.g. 6 or 12dB? In home audio, many construction has, acoustical 12dB LR. What is your experience?
Today I switched LR4 to BTW4 and sound starts to live again. But I choose 55 hz for sub and 80 hz for woofer as cut-off freq, because sub @ 80 hz cut-off sounds dirty as harmonics increases. When I also applyed BTW4 highpass filter for sub @ 35hz the bass become more smoothly then my prev varient @ CHEB4 (my sub is vented, tuned to 35 hz). LR2 I use for Woofer + mids + tweeters
Thanks for the video! I have three points: 1. Have you tried to actually MEASURE the phase? Basically, you can't tell that using LR24 will give you perfect match as every speaker "touches" the phase as well. I'm using Smaart in CA for time alignment (and IMO you can't do it better with ear or by distance, Smaart measures the impulse response in live mode so you can adjust every speaker to "meet" at the RTA Mic position) and a little for phase analysis, but there is so many reflections and below ~2kHz it shows bullshit. 2. Can you do a video about two-seat tuning? Assuming no center and, let's say, not the latest helix dsp (no upmixer). 3. What about another filters, like BW12? Do you use something else than LR24? Cheers!
Hello from Ukraine ! Great video. I setup on the phases by ear, but it’s difficult, I’m looking for a way to tune using a microphone and "grinding" by ear. You showed a good example, I will try soon. I'm still learning, now I am faced with a problem: how to make the left and right sides the same ?, it is very difficult to configure for me... Thank you so much for your work!
yes years later I find this post lol. It is a battle we will never win against these self proclaimed internet experts that just try and torpedo our post. You get used to it. Most people don't even realize that these are basic text book designs and todays tech is way above this. So this poster is accurate in you can in fact use this as one way to check phase integration. But can you get the speaker to reference 0 degree's throughout the majority of your frequency response? And you could show a minimum phase graph so we can see what phase of the xovers are doing. Measurements are just a tool and can not tell you how a speaker will sound. I had speakers with perfect flat response and sounded like crap. Todays standard of measurements can't show you psycho-acoustics in a speaker design. People think wire doesn't make a difference...(more ignorant people). Everything matters and has an effect on the sound, The poster is correct and this is a very simple way to check phase between the drivers. There is more to this than just this to truly know if you have perfect phase integration but this method will certainly get you going in the right direction. I could hear it in your voice when people say your wrong. I used to get pissed and still do. It never goes away lol. Keep up the good work!
I am infinitely grateful for your contribution to such technical topics that are not easy to find and even less to understand. You make what is intimidating and frightening at times seem easy, and you provide a firm and simple basis for approaching these complicated topics. Thank you very much Nick again, we will continue to learn much more from you.
This was gold for me, thank you very much. Just getting into tuning with an RTA instead of by ear, and this info is priceless. If you taught a class I would pay you
I was like "That's not all that smooth..." then I realized the scale you were using the dips and peaks along the FR were like 2dB or less. Thanks for another helpful video. I swear this is pretty much what Andy preaches. lol
Except for the gap in crossover between sub and Midbass...
Jerry Unknown what gap? Did you watch/learn anything from the video?
Just beginning to tune and these vids haved helped immensely. As a beginner there are certainly mistakes I've made and come back to watch and try again. I will say It takes a long time to tune. At this point with my limited experience.
Thank you so much, this is a huge help. I appreciate you making these videos for us. I've learned a lot just by watching them.
Excellent video and explanation. Thanks! Peter had a link in his recent video. Glad I watched both!
Great info. Thanks again for these videos.
Thank you for uploading those videos. They 've been very helpful!
@04:37 REW v5.18 doesn't set a LR24db slope as a target. It sets a butterworth filter. You can select a LR24db filter only at the latest beta version of REW (5.20)
The new beta version can do LR
I would love to see you use the phase sliders instead of an all pass filter on whatever Helix DSPs use them, like my DSP Pro does.
Thanks man, this is a cool video to learn from
Great video, thanks a lot
Nice video and information about all pass filter to solved the some phasing problem. Do you have a video more about the advantage of all phase filter in helix? Thank a lot before and good luck for your business :)
Awesome video, and love your work mate :) I just had a mega light bulb moment. Been struggling a little with phase response and how to apply allpass correctly and this just made it click lol. I think i need that RTA software that looks killer. Thank you :)
Thanks for that video i have got one question. I thought when you measure more than 9ne speaker you have to us stereo pinkonoise. And in this video you said mono. So i am a bit confused i was probably wrong.
Thank you so much for sharing, I've learned so much by watching your videos. One quick question though. On a helix dsp, after setting your time alignment distances, is it better to get the drivers in phase by adjusting the time alignment itself, or would adjusting the phase angle be better? Thanks in advance, I can't wait until you post another tuning video!
I'm glad you are getting info out of the videos :)
As far as phase/time.. well, it depends which one is off ;)
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions thanks for the reply! I'm guessing that knowing the difference is the hard part. I was mostly curious of weather or not the phase angle delayed the signal like the time alignment, or if it changed the angle of where it started to produce the signal. It sounded like a much more coherent though before I typed it out.
How do you do that if you don't have allpass filters (like in most non-Helix DSP-amps f.e.)?
That's the whole point of allpass filters, Peter.
You get a better DSP...
Thanks for the awesome content nick, and F##k the haters!!!
Linquitz Riley 4th order gives a 360 degree rotation yes, so the drivers would be in phase but one full cycle off.
So it's not perfect but close. One cycle off at 20 hz 60 feet long.
Phase is not delay
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions Still can be in perfect phase throughout the crossover region, but it won’t sound right unless the one cycle off is fixed. Can’t fix that by just using a tape measure and adding delay based on driver location. How do you fix the one cycle off problem?
@@hiresaudiocosta873 I don't think you are understanding.. I suggest looking up Rane's article on Linkwitz crossovers.
Great video. Will the bass and mid bass look summed, like in Rew, when you click the Sum in the Helix dsp?
Did you ever figure out if it's possible to do this calculation in Helix's RTA?
Do you use filters other than 24 dB LR? They helps in many things, such as reducing small time errors, or better protects tweeters. The acoustic filter is similar to electric, etc. And don't you feel that these filters sound a bit plastic. Is it better to use e.g. 6 or 12dB? In home audio, many construction has, acoustical 12dB LR. What is your experience?
Today I switched LR4 to BTW4 and sound starts to live again. But I choose 55 hz for sub and 80 hz for woofer as cut-off freq, because sub @ 80 hz cut-off sounds dirty as harmonics increases. When I also applyed BTW4 highpass filter for sub @ 35hz the bass become more smoothly then my prev varient @ CHEB4 (my sub is vented, tuned to 35 hz). LR2 I use for Woofer + mids + tweeters
Great video, thanks. I want to do this in for room speakers. Was this all near field measurements? How far was the mic to do all the measurements?
hi bro how can I engage with your remote tuning services ?
Thanks for the video!
I have three points:
1. Have you tried to actually MEASURE the phase? Basically, you can't tell that using LR24 will give you perfect match as every speaker "touches" the phase as well. I'm using Smaart in CA for time alignment (and IMO you can't do it better with ear or by distance, Smaart measures the impulse response in live mode so you can adjust every speaker to "meet" at the RTA Mic position) and a little for phase analysis, but there is so many reflections and below ~2kHz it shows bullshit.
2. Can you do a video about two-seat tuning? Assuming no center and, let's say, not the latest helix dsp (no upmixer).
3. What about another filters, like BW12? Do you use something else than LR24?
Cheers!
Hello from Ukraine ! Great video. I setup on the phases by ear, but it’s difficult, I’m looking for a way to tune using a microphone and "grinding" by ear. You showed a good example, I will try soon. I'm still learning, now I am faced with a problem: how to make the left and right sides the same ?, it is very difficult to configure for me...
Thank you so much for your work!
yes years later I find this post lol. It is a battle we will never win against these self proclaimed internet experts that just try and torpedo our post. You get used to it. Most people don't even realize that these are basic text book designs and todays tech is way above this. So this poster is accurate in you can in fact use this as one way to check phase integration. But can you get the speaker to reference 0 degree's throughout the majority of your frequency response? And you could show a minimum phase graph so we can see what phase of the xovers are doing. Measurements are just a tool and can not tell you how a speaker will sound. I had speakers with perfect flat response and sounded like crap. Todays standard of measurements can't show you psycho-acoustics in a speaker design. People think wire doesn't make a difference...(more ignorant people). Everything matters and has an effect on the sound, The poster is correct and this is a very simple way to check phase between the drivers. There is more to this than just this to truly know if you have perfect phase integration but this method will certainly get you going in the right direction. I could hear it in your voice when people say your wrong. I used to get pissed and still do. It never goes away lol. Keep up the good work!
Yaaay!!!
Could this method be used to determine what a variable 0-180 degree phase knob on a bass amplifier is designed to do?
probsbly
AMAZING VIDEO NICK. QUESTION WHAT IS THE Q THING. ON THE ALL PASS FILTER BUDDY. THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO
Can’t you just do time alignment? More vids like this!
Of course you do time alignment. But measurement via tape measure doesn't always work so perfectly at lower frequencies in a car.
👌
EQ is bad because of phase.
Cannot tell if this is sarcasm.. lol