A few different ways how you can determine a suitable crossover point for each of your driver. Based on data sheets, distorsion measurments and frequency response.
Good job dude!! you're a legend. Audio forums are filled with very rude people with whom asking anything is a death sentence, good to see someone who can take his time to make these videos especially for a guy like me who's getting into 3-way active with dsp.
I don't often comment but I feel the need to because your videos are so helpful and so well explained. I have learned so much from you just in the couple videos I have watched thus far. I just keep having more and more "ah ha" moments. Thank you so much for the work you put into these videos!
This is by far one of my favorite channels when it comes to REAL details. Anyone can make videos on crossover points . And how you can play with different slopes to create a flat signal. But is it flat? It’s the phase !!! Thank you!!!
Hi! How about using drivers from older but decent 3 way home speaker into an active system? Been wondering about taking drivers from old B&O s45 for example. Maybe I’m weird :) Woukd need to high pass the woofer pretty high since doors make bad enclosures and use sub under 100. Thanks for the videos. Learning a lot and get to daydream about what could be :)
QQ...if say you're aiming for a 400-3500 LT4 XO for your mid ranges to the tweets. It is okay to have different electrical cross overs in your left and right Mid ranges to get there? Or should they be the same? I assume it is okay based on the video but double checking as there is differing opinions on the web!
I have seen this tutorial so many times but still need to keep rewatching. Biggest question is so technically each driver is going to have its own crossover point. Meaning left midbass can have its own crossover point and right midbass will have its own crossover point?
Yes. Each driver can have a different crossover. Think about it, all drivers are in different locations relative to the listener. All drivers will have different level due to different distances to the listener. Different cabin gain, different loading. So if all the drivers are performing different to each other, why should they have the same crossovers?
Hello everyone, first of all, thank you for all your videos, they are very helpful, Im lost with the new REW, cant find the crossovers filters that were in the EQ section, only found xover filters for target but not for the raw measuremnt, can someone point me to the right direction, thanks
I found it very helpful for tuning my new DIY Desktop/PC Speakers. Actually just the understanding of how each factor affects the other factors is priceless. Electrical crossovers with certain slopes and power outputs may be a good starting foundation, but the actual Rew acoustic responses are what you want to tune for as they are what you are going to hear coming out of your speakers. I cannot imagine using Analog speaker tuning like all of the 20th Century and part of the 21st. Now with DSP you can cut out the cost and tedious labor of Inductors, Resistors, and Capacitors and ultimately achieve a very fine acoustic tune of your speakers.
@RAW-CAt Ah, I thought that would be the case. Thanks. BTW, I love your channel, which is very interesting and informative. I've learned a ton from you 👍🏻
Love your videos and your content. Im in Canada. And i heard you say you did online Helix tuning training. Id be very interested in paying for somthing like that. How do i msg you in private?
This was very good and thorough thank you. As I know when a driver is acoustically following a smooth response after crossovers and EQ, their phase response will typically be smoother as well. Will choosing a non-linkwitz crossover electrically in a Helix DSP cause any concern with that? Such as a bessel?
Not at all. Acoustical crossover slope is the one that matters, it doesn't matter what kind it is. As long as it's safe for the driver (prevents overexcursion)
Nice presentation with REW. I have a question that how can I get a target curve shown in 'All SPL' windows and EQ windows. I know there is a target setting in EQ option but can't choose the filter type like Linkwitz...
I’d like to suggest discussing crossover parameters and the results using the term electro-acoustical. You refer to it as acoustical but, that’s no more accurate than saying electrical only. The response that you end up with is a combination of the electrical from the crossover itself plus the acoustic response of the driver/enclosure. At its heart it’s equivalent to having two filters in series and you can’t expect to arrive at your target response without taking into account the characteristics of both. They impact each other in both magnitude and phase. The end result is to get the combination to perform to your target, not to make the crossover somehow deal with the driver response. You sort of allude to the concept but, don’t clearly point it out.
Yes, you are right. And in future videos I might use that term. Thanks for pointing this out. I personally am not too worried about the words that I use as long as it gets the meaning across.
You are a great teacher! Thank you so much for your easy-to-understand detailed instructions and information. I would still be lost with tuning and REW if I didn't have your guidance, thank you thank you thank you
Do you have a video on how to measure properly with an RTA or mic with phone I’m gonna get audio tool on my phone and a Dayton audio mic to get some data on my system. Thank you and great job on this video I’ve been rewatching it non stop taking notes .
@@RAW-CAt ok what would you suggest for a cheap RTA not 8-900 bucks for a 1-2 time use a year I see a real opportunity for shops to have one because it would be used daily but for someone who installs his own gear I don’t see it being used more then 3 times a year any help is appreciated have a great dsy
@@RAW-CAtif I’m summing channels for my subs and tweeters by my front left and right will I need to make my crossover for it full pass ? Like 30-20k to play mids tweeters and sub frequencies. I hope that makes sense sorry.
@@thatguykai479 the summing of the i put channels have nothing to do with the output. Every output channel has to be assigned to a different speaker driver. And you cross the outputs accordingly.
I really appreciate your videos and the instruction. Does the Left side acoustic speaker response dictate where the Right side speakers should be crossed over?
I have a 2007 GX470 the Mark Levinson audio system. The entire system uses 16OHM speakers. It's becoming increasingly hard to find car audio drivers that operate at 16OHM. The rest of the system is impressive, but I can't help but think that it would benefit from a driver refresh & upgrade. What should I do with lower impedance speakers in order not to put the amplifier in jeopardy? I've looked for the ML specifications without result.
You might want to look at some Pro audio gear with 16ohm impedance. But best option would be to replace the factory amplifier with an aftermarket one and have "normal" 4ohm speakers.
@@RAW-CAt That's a gordian knot of the first order. The amp is integrated with thing else. Not to whine, though. Rewoprking car audio isn't for the faint of heart. Many people just toss in whatever 8ohm they can afford or find and takes their chances.
Perhaps I missed it as it was a fairly lengthy video but its worth mentioning the potential phase issues as you change the order of the crossover.... a possible follow up tutorial?
In the video I was talking about the difference between electrical and acoustical crossovers. As long as you have 24dB LR acoustical crossovers measured, it doesn't matter what crossovers you are using in the DSP.
@@RAW-CAt I thought you were implying to chose the electrical crossover based on the acoustical response. In which case you may have 18dB/oct for the HP and 12dB/oct for the low pass. I agree, if both slopes are the same then providing there are no spatial differences you shouldn't expect any phase issues.
Perfect timing. I'm selecting crossover points right now. In REW on the EQ tab, I don't have the crossover selections at the bottom. I believe you have a Helix and I have a JL twk. Assuming the twk doesn't have the ability to model crossovers in REW, how do I get around this limitation? Take readings of each type of available crossover types with different slopes on each?
your videos are good but here I just wanted to point out that in this video at 2:23 min there's one small correction that is to be rectified. For tweeter hi-pass should be of either 3kHz or 3000Hz and not 3000kHz
I think you mean low pass?🤔 You should use crossover that works according to REW and then measure again to confirm it actually does what you need it to do.
Aah ya sorry LPF. I had a Wideband in the dash. 2 6.5” mid bass front and 2 6.5” mid bass rear on a SUV. No sub. So all four doors are equip with 6.5”’and in ge front dash there are 2 3.5” wideband. I’ve tested the respond using Rew. My 6.5” RS speakers had a FS 7.3. Is there any way I could send you my REW data for you to analyze?
I currently run some 2.5in full range drivers on my dash and they are crossed over at 200Hz. I let my rear deck drivers cover 200Hz to 60Hz, and let my sub (IB18) cover 60Hz and below. Eventually I would like to get a couple more amplifier channels to try and do a bit better. But as is, it's very enjoyable and my 2.5in drivers handle 200Hz+ like a champ. Plus them being $10 each driver, I'm never going to blow one, but if I did, they're dirt cheap to replace. And sound 100x better than in door speakers. Thanks for the awesome in depth videos!
Good job dude!! you're a legend. Audio forums are filled with very rude people with whom asking anything is a death sentence, good to see someone who can take his time to make these videos especially for a guy like me who's getting into 3-way active with dsp.
You are absolutely right. Rude rude people.
It’s a shame
I don't often comment but I feel the need to because your videos are so helpful and so well explained. I have learned so much from you just in the couple videos I have watched thus far. I just keep having more and more "ah ha" moments. Thank you so much for the work you put into these videos!
This is by far one of my favorite channels when it comes to REAL details.
Anyone can make videos on crossover points . And how you can play with different slopes to create a flat signal.
But is it flat? It’s the phase !!!
Thank you!!!
Probably the most important tutorial in car audio. Thank you for this!
Really great job giving detailed explanations......you along with pssound have taught me so much about sq in car audio
great video ... the collection of information is starting to make sense .... that said Ive never seen a car with front AND rear sub ....
Thanks. Peter from PS sound made plenty😉 Front subs are getting more popular😉
it is a pleasure to see someone actually doing true tuning and not just apply crossover at the software and thinks he has the best sounding system .
Very helpful!
Hi! How about using drivers from older but decent 3 way home speaker into an active system? Been wondering about taking drivers from old B&O s45 for example. Maybe I’m weird :) Woukd need to high pass the woofer pretty high since doors make bad enclosures and use sub under 100. Thanks for the videos. Learning a lot and get to daydream about what could be :)
Sure you can try. However if the speaker is very old, the suspension might be very loose.
QQ...if say you're aiming for a 400-3500 LT4 XO for your mid ranges to the tweets. It is okay to have different electrical cross overs in your left and right Mid ranges to get there? Or should they be the same? I assume it is okay based on the video but double checking as there is differing opinions on the web!
Yes it is ok to use different electrical crossovers.
I have seen this tutorial so many times but still need to keep rewatching.
Biggest question is so technically each driver is going to have its own crossover point. Meaning left midbass can have its own crossover point and right midbass will have its own crossover point?
Yes. Each driver can have a different crossover. Think about it, all drivers are in different locations relative to the listener. All drivers will have different level due to different distances to the listener. Different cabin gain, different loading. So if all the drivers are performing different to each other, why should they have the same crossovers?
@@RAW-CAt but in BUG CAT, we are keeping it simple and have same crossover for pair of drivers like e.g. mid bass?
@@uos64 CAT-BUG is for beginners.
Hello everyone, first of all, thank you for all your videos, they are very helpful, Im lost with the new REW, cant find the crossovers filters that were in the EQ section, only found xover filters for target but not for the raw measuremnt, can someone point me to the right direction, thanks
In the EQ window change the EQ to generic extended.
I found it very helpful for tuning my new DIY Desktop/PC Speakers. Actually just the understanding of how each factor affects the other factors is priceless. Electrical crossovers with certain slopes and power outputs may be a good starting foundation, but the actual Rew acoustic responses are what you want to tune for as they are what you are going to hear coming out of your speakers. I cannot imagine using Analog speaker tuning like all of the 20th Century and part of the 21st. Now with DSP you can cut out the cost and tedious labor of Inductors, Resistors, and Capacitors and ultimately achieve a very fine acoustic tune of your speakers.
I never see anyone using xovers with steeper slopes for example 48db/Oct. Anyone know why that is?
The purpose of the crossover is to blend the drivers so that they would sum flat. It's very difficult and impractical to blend 48dB slopes.
@RAW-CAt Ah, I thought that would be the case. Thanks. BTW, I love your channel, which is very interesting and informative. I've learned a ton from you 👍🏻
Hands down one of the BEST explanations I've seen. Nerijus..glad you fired your channel back up!
Google must have sold my voice data to this man, because I was just talking about trying new crossover points for my setup, excellent video!
Bro... you are amazing, thanks for share your knowledge I really learn a lot from your explanation...
Love your videos and your content. Im in Canada. And i heard you say you did online Helix tuning training. Id be very interested in paying for somthing like that. How do i msg you in private?
Email rawcaraudiotuning@gmail.com
This was very good and thorough thank you. As I know when a driver is acoustically following a smooth response after crossovers and EQ, their phase response will typically be smoother as well. Will choosing a non-linkwitz crossover electrically in a Helix DSP cause any concern with that? Such as a bessel?
Not at all. Acoustical crossover slope is the one that matters, it doesn't matter what kind it is. As long as it's safe for the driver (prevents overexcursion)
Nice presentation with REW. I have a question that how can I get a target curve shown in 'All SPL' windows and EQ windows. I know there is a target setting in EQ option but can't choose the filter type like Linkwitz...
Watch one of my tuning sessions, like "tuning a 5 way sytem". I show it there.
I’d like to suggest discussing crossover parameters and the results using the term electro-acoustical. You refer to it as acoustical but, that’s no more accurate than saying electrical only. The response that you end up with is a combination of the electrical from the crossover itself plus the acoustic response of the driver/enclosure. At its heart it’s equivalent to having two filters in series and you can’t expect to arrive at your target response without taking into account the characteristics of both. They impact each other in both magnitude and phase. The end result is to get the combination to perform to your target, not to make the crossover somehow deal with the driver response. You sort of allude to the concept but, don’t clearly point it out.
Yes, you are right. And in future videos I might use that term. Thanks for pointing this out. I personally am not too worried about the words that I use as long as it gets the meaning across.
What software are you using?
I am using REW, WinISD and Helix DSP PC tool.
You are a great teacher! Thank you so much for your easy-to-understand detailed instructions and information. I would still be lost with tuning and REW if I didn't have your guidance, thank you thank you thank you
Happy to help😉
how to choose subsonic filter setting plz tell me
Do you have a video on how to measure properly with an RTA or mic with phone I’m gonna get audio tool on my phone and a Dayton audio mic to get some data on my system. Thank you and great job on this video I’ve been rewatching it non stop taking notes .
I don't use a prone for rta as I find it extremely limited. No real tuning can be done on a phone in my opinion.
@@RAW-CAt ok what would you suggest for a cheap RTA not 8-900 bucks for a 1-2 time use a year I see a real opportunity for shops to have one because it would be used daily but for someone who installs his own gear I don’t see it being used more then 3 times a year any help is appreciated have a great dsy
@@thatguykai479 watch my latest videos. I use REW, it is free. All you need is a mic and a windows laptop.
@@RAW-CAtif I’m summing channels for my subs and tweeters by my front left and right will I need to make my crossover for it full pass ? Like 30-20k to play mids tweeters and sub frequencies. I hope that makes sense sorry.
@@thatguykai479 the summing of the i put channels have nothing to do with the output. Every output channel has to be assigned to a different speaker driver. And you cross the outputs accordingly.
using REW how do I see frequency / driver summations ??
You need to use arithmetic functions and use multiplication. However, that doesn't take phase into account. So you can see "ideal" summation only.
Very informative video❤
I'm very gratefull for your videos.
I really appreciate your videos and the instruction. Does the Left side acoustic speaker response dictate where the Right side speakers should be crossed over?
Acoustically crossovers L and R have to be the same. Elecrtically - no.
I have a 2007 GX470 the Mark Levinson audio system. The entire system uses 16OHM speakers. It's becoming increasingly hard to find car audio drivers that operate at 16OHM. The rest of the system is impressive, but I can't help but think that it would benefit from a driver refresh & upgrade.
What should I do with lower impedance speakers in order not to put the amplifier in jeopardy? I've looked for the ML specifications without result.
You might want to look at some Pro audio gear with 16ohm impedance. But best option would be to replace the factory amplifier with an aftermarket one and have "normal" 4ohm speakers.
@@RAW-CAt That's a gordian knot of the first order. The amp is integrated with thing else. Not to whine, though. Rewoprking car audio isn't for the faint of heart. Many people just toss in whatever 8ohm they can afford or find and takes their chances.
Perhaps I missed it as it was a fairly lengthy video but its worth mentioning the potential phase issues as you change the order of the crossover.... a possible follow up tutorial?
In the video I was talking about the difference between electrical and acoustical crossovers. As long as you have 24dB LR acoustical crossovers measured, it doesn't matter what crossovers you are using in the DSP.
@@RAW-CAt I thought you were implying to chose the electrical crossover based on the acoustical response. In which case you may have 18dB/oct for the HP and 12dB/oct for the low pass. I agree, if both slopes are the same then providing there are no spatial differences you shouldn't expect any phase issues.
Perfect timing. I'm selecting crossover points right now. In REW on the EQ tab, I don't have the crossover selections at the bottom. I believe you have a Helix and I have a JL twk. Assuming the twk doesn't have the ability to model crossovers in REW, how do I get around this limitation? Take readings of each type of available crossover types with different slopes on each?
In the EQ window under the DSP type select "generic". And check if you are runing the latest version of REW.
Thank you sir. Guess there is no reason to select the twk since it can't transfer the settings automatically.
Should pairs of speakers always have the same crossover/ slopes or can they be different to match the target?
@@dhassay most of the time crossovers will be different.
your videos are good but here I just wanted to point out that in this video at 2:23 min there's one small correction that is to be rectified. For tweeter hi-pass should be of either 3kHz or 3000Hz and not 3000kHz
Haha,yes you are right, that was a typo.
If my mid bass was cross at 900hz HPF in Rew to match the acoustic crossover of 75-250hz Should I use the 900hz as HPF at my DSP or 250hz?
I think you mean low pass?🤔 You should use crossover that works according to REW and then measure again to confirm it actually does what you need it to do.
Aah ya sorry LPF. I had a Wideband in the dash. 2 6.5” mid bass front and 2 6.5” mid bass rear on a SUV. No sub. So all four doors are equip with 6.5”’and in ge front dash there are 2 3.5” wideband. I’ve tested the respond using Rew. My 6.5” RS speakers had a FS 7.3. Is there any way I could send you my REW data for you to analyze?
@@feins sure, find me on FB
What is your username on FB?
@@5bobo nerijus kochanskas
Thanks!
Ty
I currently run some 2.5in full range drivers on my dash and they are crossed over at 200Hz. I let my rear deck drivers cover 200Hz to 60Hz, and let my sub (IB18) cover 60Hz and below.
Eventually I would like to get a couple more amplifier channels to try and do a bit better. But as is, it's very enjoyable and my 2.5in drivers handle 200Hz+ like a champ. Plus them being $10 each driver, I'm never going to blow one, but if I did, they're dirt cheap to replace. And sound 100x better than in door speakers.
Thanks for the awesome in depth videos!