There is one more downside for the Tiptronic which I missed out in my video, fuel consumption. No matter how I drive my Boxster, the fuel consumption is definitely higher than my 997.2. In the end I told myself screw it, if I can't get good mileage (which isn't the point for a Porsche anyways) I might as well drive the car hard! lol
Conceptually torque convertor box: - actually has more than two clutches...how many depends on the design of the box - has all the gears always meshed/engaged. It is the action of the clutches that creates the gear ratio effect - has planetary gear sets that are meshed at more than one tooth. So it's very strong - is actually two transmissions in series. The torque convertor is in reality an infinite ratio 'gearbox'/transmission. Infinite is a very big number of gears :). The trade off for infinite ratios is transmission efficiency due to fluid flow induced losses, which is why we have torque convertor lock-up, and more to the point, why we even bother with metal fixed ratio gears. Driving techniques used in a manual box translate to the slush box. Yes you can select and hold a gear setting up for a corner. Yes you can blip the throttle to rev match. Yes you can upshift to limit rear wheel torque. There is no real need to treat a torque convertor automatic as an automatic...as brilliant as some of the new torque convertor automatics are today...they cannot see down the road and read the vext series of apexes and road undulations and pavement conditions... Humans cannot feel speed. We feel acceleration. We are even more sensitive to changes in acceleration, technical term 'jerk'. Jerk is the visceral 'kick in the back' that sells manuals and muscle cars, and PDK. People perceived jerk as fast/power. However jerk is also the best way to break your tyre contact patch with the road...so if you want maximum longitudinal acceleration (acceleration/braking) or maximum lateral acceleration ('cornering'), and maximum car control (with the exception of drift or rally environments or maybe a hairpin turn where you want to create high rates of chassis rotation), you want to eliminate jerk. You want the ride to feel...boring. Interestingly many new higher end cars (BMW, Alfa) are moving away from PDKs back to torque convertors, for the reasons above. Even Koenigsegg has a hypercar were, I understand, they have done away with fixed ratio metal gears and run with just a giant torque convertor plus an electric hybrid to augment the ICE's bottom end torque delive...As noted before, infite ratio...is a lot of 'gears'.
Tiptronic is more than enough for touge driving. Thank you for your assurance. Will give some love to the 987.1 that was hibernated in the garage for sometime.
Yes, you should! I was in love with my white Boxster when I got it last year. Drove to many places, B roads and even took it for an advanced driving course It was good! 👍🏼
This video is helping to sway my attention back to the 958.2 Cayenne, which has an 8-speed Tiptronic transmission. I have test-driven 911s, Cayennes and Panameras so my decision is between those vehicles. After learning about the potential costly repairs that seemed in many cases to be inevitable with the PDK, and seeing that the Tiptronic isn't as sluggish as some would remark, I am willing to give it more consideration. Some would say, why not get a manual? It has been said that a Porsche's clutch isn't too forgiving in stop-and-go traffic.
Good to hear that you gained some insights on the Tiptronic vs PDK topic. Unless you plan to go for spirited driving with the Cayenne or use it for off roading, I would go for the autos everytime
Hi Adrian, i have had MY 2008 2.7 5 spd Cayman 987.1 for 4 yrs. And i totally concur with you on the sound. These engines sound amazing when you rev them out. I also have the Carnewall Gt exhaust fitted and it trully sounds like a GT3 car , i giggle every time i push it just like you :). Subscribed.
Thanks for the sub & the view, appreciate it 🙏🏻 I did put an aftermarket exhaust for my first white Boxster previously. However I found that it was a wee bit too noisy when I want a chill drive with the top down. If it was the 987.1 Cayman, an aftermarket exhaust can be considered. And a must for a 987.2, lol
Finaly a review that doesnt praise the PDK to heaven. To be honest. Driving PDK in traffic jam and slow traffic is a pain. Jerky and its sounds something is broken when its not. The tip is more comfortable for sure. PDK in all other situations are superior BUT. Its more likely you drive slow than fast. The jerkyness is very hard to accept for such a expensive car…🤔
Yup, I looked it at from a daily POV as I daily my 997 } Which I found the response to be different from a standard non dual clutch gearbox. So there are pros & cons to the gearbox.
If I was to buy a Boxter or cayman I would consider a 2009 model or newer base model because they don’t come with a DFI which is known to cause carbon build up on valves and bore scoring in cylinders and also doesn’t have an IMS. Otherwise great content and Rolex.😎✌🏼
tbh, carbon buildup is over-rated. There are products in the market that can help to reduce/ remove carbon deposits inside. 👍🏼 Thanks for the great feedback!
So, in the term of money you have to spend on the car and maintenance, do you think you will recommend choosing Tiptonic over PDK for someone who never get it on track?
Hi there, how has your 987.1 S been? I'm looking at a 08 cayman s myself, but have heard stories about bore scoring and I'm getting kinda cold feet on whether or not I should make the purchase. How has your ownership experience been wth the 987.1 S?
Ive actually sold my 987.1 but in general if you ask the 987 community in Malaysia, it is almost unheard of that a 987 has had bore scoring Hope that answers your question 👍🏼
Yup, I love it. I'm still using for my 997 up til today. I either got it from Lazada or Shopee, you can search for CD slot mobile holder. Hope you find it 👍🏼
Great video! I'm considering a 2009 Cayman pdk myself, and just wondering if you have come across any pressure sensor issues with your pdk? The owner of the car that I'm considering said he managed to find an independent garage that would be able to sort out the pressure sensor issue, to avoid a replacement of the pdk - do you think that is acceptable? Thanks!
Hi bro! Yes, I did come across the PDK sensor issues. Yup, my shop also replaces the PDK sensor too And so happen I do have a friend who is interested to find a new home for his 987.2. Drop me a WhatsApp bro if interested to chit chat👍🏼 0126730363
Thanks for your video, I'm still torn between a 987.2 PDK vs the 987.1 S. I'm quite limited with choices in Thailand and can't find an 987.2 S with PDK. So it's either the 2.9 PDK or the S with tiptronic.
@@ThePorscheLover Nope, the 2.9 PDK had a check engine light, the owner said he will sort that out first. The S tip I got to drive around the parking lot so I didn't get a full road experience with it. To make things harder I just got offered a full optioned 2.7 tiptronic for a reasonable price this morning. Really pulling my hair out now, gut says go with the PDK, but the 2.7 is tempting because it has all the options I am looking for.
Amen! For my Gulf, perhaps. But not for the Boxster, it would spoil the dropthetop experience if it was too loud. Learnt it the hard way with my previous white one 😆
@@ThePorscheLover The droptop actually reduces any drone especially if the top is down. The drone is more on cayman because the hardtop reverberates the sound and cabin can be too noisy. But you need to get a high quality exhaust system, the cheap ones will drone alot...I am running Soul performance full exhaust system and long tube equal length headers and have no drone, especially top down. Not too loud at all.
@@ThePorscheLover Here's a sound clip sample for you: ua-cam.com/video/0ErfFRvH-uM/v-deo.html It isn't as loud as it seems in the video, but it has a high pitch sound like a GT3.
Hi bro, the PDK is a 7 speed for 987s & 997s. Performance? I did mention that the gear changes are faster in a PDK compared to the Tip bro. Or were you referring to another performance metric? Yes, there are manuals but it's very rare. If you see one pop up, you can definitely bet it'll be with a premium.
hi bro, depends on what you consider driving engagement to be. Some ppl associate it with power, some with handling etc. For me, it's more engaging in the 987.1 cause: - louder engine sound - more feedback from steering
When I want to spend 20 - 25k for a used Boxster with around 80 - 120 km on it, do I have to go for a specific model? 987? And I think I don't want a "normal" shifter, I either go for tiptronic or pdk (although it seems that pdk boxsters are around 29.000€)
Reading from your comments, what you're looking at would be the 987.1 Boxster with a Tiptronic gearbox. Which is my car in the video. Mine is the S variant, so it comes with a 3.2L engine & some upgraded goodies like bigger brakes, third centre radiator etc.
@@ThePorscheLover Today I test-rided a Boxster (for about 74k, ofc totally out of my budjet but just for driving a porsche boxster once it was a very cool experience.) and the seller-guy (company) told me I should definately go for pdk because its a way better porsche driving experience or "the real" porsche driving experience, and that's why they stopped building tiptronic and went just for pdk. I told him I want to spend about 30k. He said I should go up to 40k to have more options and he recommended the 981 model with pdk (ofc). So should I go for that advice or should I go for a 987 pdk and save some money? Thx & Greetings
Both 987 & 981 offers very different driving experience. Also, the 981 has a more modern interior. If you're OK with the 987 interior I would suggest you try that out first. Then after using it for a couple of years, perhaps you can consider to upgrade to a 981 for a different driving experience 👍🏼
There is one more downside for the Tiptronic which I missed out in my video, fuel consumption.
No matter how I drive my Boxster, the fuel consumption is definitely higher than my 997.2. In the end I told myself screw it, if I can't get good mileage (which isn't the point for a Porsche anyways) I might as well drive the car hard! lol
100% it is bad! Really bad, small price to pay for not having to use a clutch 🤣
Haha, indeed!
Just curious, is the FC that bad for Porsche Cayman and Boxster? Can we use Ron 95?
Do the pdk will need clutch replacement too ?
So far we haven't done any clutch replacements yet. Only oil changes
Your triptronic video made me fall in love with it. And it's still relevant today. Well done. The natural step is to go get it and which I did 😂
Congrats! Enjoy
Conceptually torque convertor box:
- actually has more than two clutches...how many depends on the design of the box
- has all the gears always meshed/engaged. It is the action of the clutches that creates the gear ratio effect
- has planetary gear sets that are meshed at more than one tooth. So it's very strong
- is actually two transmissions in series. The torque convertor is in reality an infinite ratio 'gearbox'/transmission. Infinite is a very big number of gears :). The trade off for infinite ratios is transmission efficiency due to fluid flow induced losses, which is why we have torque convertor lock-up, and more to the point, why we even bother with metal fixed ratio gears.
Driving techniques used in a manual box translate to the slush box. Yes you can select and hold a gear setting up for a corner. Yes you can blip the throttle to rev match. Yes you can upshift to limit rear wheel torque. There is no real need to treat a torque convertor automatic as an automatic...as brilliant as some of the new torque convertor automatics are today...they cannot see down the road and read the vext series of apexes and road undulations and pavement conditions...
Humans cannot feel speed. We feel acceleration. We are even more sensitive to changes in acceleration, technical term 'jerk'.
Jerk is the visceral 'kick in the back' that sells manuals and muscle cars, and PDK. People perceived jerk as fast/power. However jerk is also the best way to break your tyre contact patch with the road...so if you want maximum longitudinal acceleration (acceleration/braking) or maximum lateral acceleration ('cornering'), and maximum car control (with the exception of drift or rally environments or maybe a hairpin turn where you want to create high rates of chassis rotation), you want to eliminate jerk. You want the ride to feel...boring.
Interestingly many new higher end cars (BMW, Alfa) are moving away from PDKs back to torque convertors, for the reasons above.
Even Koenigsegg has a hypercar were, I understand, they have done away with fixed ratio metal gears and run with just a giant torque convertor plus an electric hybrid to augment the ICE's bottom end torque delive...As noted before, infite ratio...is a lot of 'gears'.
Nice to see the Tiptronic being covered!! I get so much hate on mine but love it!
Nice watch also!
Thanks!
Yes, it does get a lot of hate but it is not as terrible as they say it is. 😆
@@ThePorscheLover not at all:) I really like it!
Tiptronic is more than enough for touge driving. Thank you for your assurance. Will give some love to the 987.1 that was hibernated in the garage for sometime.
Yes, you should! I was in love with my white Boxster when I got it last year.
Drove to many places, B roads and even took it for an advanced driving course It was good! 👍🏼
This video is helping to sway my attention back to the 958.2 Cayenne, which has an 8-speed Tiptronic transmission. I have test-driven 911s, Cayennes and Panameras so my decision is between those vehicles. After learning about the potential costly repairs that seemed in many cases to be inevitable with the PDK, and seeing that the Tiptronic isn't as sluggish as some would remark, I am willing to give it more consideration. Some would say, why not get a manual? It has been said that a Porsche's clutch isn't too forgiving in stop-and-go traffic.
Good to hear that you gained some insights on the Tiptronic vs PDK topic.
Unless you plan to go for spirited driving with the Cayenne or use it for off roading, I would go for the autos everytime
thank you adrian for this video!
You're most welcome bro
Can’t agree more on the shifting quirks of the PDK from standstill or very slow speeds unlike the Tip box.
Lol, indeed!
Agreed that the Sport Chrono makes a huge difference with PDK. Nice video. Thank you
Yes it does! Especially the response on the lower revs.
Hi Adrian, i have had MY 2008 2.7 5 spd Cayman 987.1 for 4 yrs. And i totally concur with you on the sound. These engines sound amazing when you rev them out. I also have the Carnewall Gt exhaust fitted and it trully sounds like a GT3 car , i giggle every time i push it just like you :). Subscribed.
Thanks for the sub & the view, appreciate it 🙏🏻
I did put an aftermarket exhaust for my first white Boxster previously. However I found that it was a wee bit too noisy when I want a chill drive with the top down.
If it was the 987.1 Cayman, an aftermarket exhaust can be considered. And a must for a 987.2, lol
I like the brown interior better than the black. It just looks more elegant. Beautiful cars.
Yup, agreed on that. I have grown to love brown interior too after driving this Boxster for abit
New to the channel and here in the UK that 987 has the best colour combination and looks in stunning condition nice video and good editing.
Hi & thanks for your support! 🙏🏻
You're looking to get a 987 or already have one?
The 997.1 turbo also has the Mezger mated to a Mercedes 722/NAG 1. That turbo tip is different from the N/A tips.
Thanks for the info
That was an excellent review, thanks
Most welcome, thanks for watching 👍🏼
The PDK is phenomenal. I found the tiptronic uninspiring. Shifts were slow.
I own a 987 ph2 pdk + pcs. I try both PDK is a way better, no delay, and 7 géar so rallye better for motorway
Awesome video bro! Thanks for the lovely exhaust notes too.
Welcome & thanks for the view bro!
Yup, exhaust notes are lovely!
Very good comparative analysis. Thank you.
Thanks & you're most welcome!
Finaly a review that doesnt praise the PDK to heaven. To be honest. Driving PDK in traffic jam and slow traffic is a pain. Jerky and its sounds something is broken when its not. The tip is more comfortable for sure.
PDK in all other situations are superior BUT. Its more likely you drive slow than fast. The jerkyness is very hard to accept for such a expensive car…🤔
Yup, I looked it at from a daily POV as I daily my 997 }
Which I found the response to be different from a standard non dual clutch gearbox.
So there are pros & cons to the gearbox.
very informative, thanks bro
Most welcome, glad you found value in it!
987.2 base models still have the port injection, the same as 987.1. Only 987.2 S and R models have direct injection.
I stand corrected, thanks for the correction 👍🏼
My only gripe about the tiptronic is actually on highway cruising, 3000+rpm after a long drive is tiring
Yes bro, thanks for pointing that out. I drove both my 987.1 & 997.2 on long drives, definitely the 997.2 is the better one with the PDK.
If I was to buy a Boxter or cayman I would consider a 2009 model or newer base model because they don’t come with a DFI which is known to cause carbon build up on valves and bore scoring in cylinders and also doesn’t have an IMS. Otherwise great content and Rolex.😎✌🏼
tbh, carbon buildup is over-rated. There are products in the market that can help to reduce/ remove carbon deposits inside. 👍🏼
Thanks for the great feedback!
@@ThePorscheLover how do you prevent ims bearing failure?
I am also choosing between PDK or Tipstronics.
IMS is something I’m having concerned. Hope can get some advice
So, in the term of money you have to spend on the car and maintenance, do you think you will recommend choosing Tiptonic over PDK for someone who never get it on track?
I would advice getting a good condition car, which can either be a Tip or PDK that is in your budget 👍🏼
Hi there, how has your 987.1 S been? I'm looking at a 08 cayman s myself, but have heard stories about bore scoring and I'm getting kinda cold feet on whether or not I should make the purchase. How has your ownership experience been wth the 987.1 S?
Ive actually sold my 987.1 but in general if you ask the 987 community in Malaysia, it is almost unheard of that a 987 has had bore scoring
Hope that answers your question 👍🏼
Lovely watch bro.
Thanks! 🙏🏻
Btw- what phone holder is that? I think something like that would fit my needs very well. I have a 987.1 cayman.
Yup, I love it. I'm still using for my 997 up til today.
I either got it from Lazada or Shopee, you can search for CD slot mobile holder.
Hope you find it 👍🏼
Great video! I'm considering a 2009 Cayman pdk myself, and just wondering if you have come across any pressure sensor issues with your pdk? The owner of the car that I'm considering said he managed to find an independent garage that would be able to sort out the pressure sensor issue, to avoid a replacement of the pdk - do you think that is acceptable? Thanks!
Hi bro!
Yes, I did come across the PDK sensor issues. Yup, my shop also replaces the PDK sensor too
And so happen I do have a friend who is interested to find a new home for his 987.2. Drop me a WhatsApp bro if interested to chit chat👍🏼
0126730363
Thanks for your video, I'm still torn between a 987.2 PDK vs the 987.1 S. I'm quite limited with choices in Thailand and can't find an 987.2 S with PDK. So it's either the 2.9 PDK or the S with tiptronic.
You're most welcome!
I see, have you test driven both?
@@ThePorscheLover Nope, the 2.9 PDK had a check engine light, the owner said he will sort that out first. The S tip I got to drive around the parking lot so I didn't get a full road experience with it. To make things harder I just got offered a full optioned 2.7 tiptronic for a reasonable price this morning.
Really pulling my hair out now, gut says go with the PDK, but the 2.7 is tempting because it has all the options I am looking for.
Haha, decisions decisions. All the best!
ada Porsche is a bundle of joy already hahaha. Thought of putting X pipes (cargraphic, Js and etc) on the flat 6 engines? *evil grin*
Amen!
For my Gulf, perhaps. But not for the Boxster, it would spoil the dropthetop experience if it was too loud. Learnt it the hard way with my previous white one 😆
@@ThePorscheLover The droptop actually reduces any drone especially if the top is down. The drone is more on cayman because the hardtop reverberates the sound and cabin can be too noisy.
But you need to get a high quality exhaust system, the cheap ones will drone alot...I am running Soul performance full exhaust system and long tube equal length headers and have no drone, especially top down. Not too loud at all.
@Fresh. Sizzle thanks for the sharing. Would love to try out your exhaust one day 👍🏼
@@ThePorscheLover Here's a sound clip sample for you: ua-cam.com/video/0ErfFRvH-uM/v-deo.html
It isn't as loud as it seems in the video, but it has a high pitch sound like a GT3.
Nice watch
Quick query! Does the tiptronic starts at gear 2 after a drive?
Yup, it usually starts at gear 2
Sportomatic > PDK > Tiptronic
Good Job bro 👍
Thanks bro!
Hi Adrian, would like to know how’s the tiptronic 5 speed perform vs PDK 6 speed.
Also is there any manual 987.1/2 in Malaysia?
Hi bro, the PDK is a 7 speed for 987s & 997s. Performance? I did mention that the gear changes are faster in a PDK compared to the Tip bro. Or were you referring to another performance metric?
Yes, there are manuals but it's very rare. If you see one pop up, you can definitely bet it'll be with a premium.
Hi. Would you say that the 987.1 is more engaging/visceral than 987.2?
hi bro, depends on what you consider driving engagement to be. Some ppl associate it with power, some with handling etc.
For me, it's more engaging in the 987.1 cause:
- louder engine sound
- more feedback from steering
what exhaust was on the 987.1?
It is the original non sport exhaust
When I want to spend 20 - 25k for a used Boxster with around 80 - 120 km on it, do I have to go for a specific model? 987? And I think I don't want a "normal" shifter, I either go for tiptronic or pdk (although it seems that pdk boxsters are around 29.000€)
Reading from your comments, what you're looking at would be the 987.1 Boxster with a Tiptronic gearbox.
Which is my car in the video. Mine is the S variant, so it comes with a 3.2L engine & some upgraded goodies like bigger brakes, third centre radiator etc.
@@ThePorscheLover Today I test-rided a Boxster (for about 74k, ofc totally out of my budjet but just for driving a porsche boxster once it was a very cool experience.) and the seller-guy (company) told me I should definately go for pdk because its a way better porsche driving experience or "the real" porsche driving experience, and that's why they stopped building tiptronic and went just for pdk. I told him I want to spend about 30k. He said I should go up to 40k to have more options and he recommended the 981 model with pdk (ofc). So should I go for that advice or should I go for a 987 pdk and save some money? Thx & Greetings
Both 987 & 981 offers very different driving experience.
Also, the 981 has a more modern interior. If you're OK with the 987 interior I would suggest you try that out first.
Then after using it for a couple of years, perhaps you can consider to upgrade to a 981 for a different driving experience 👍🏼
PDK will always be better
In terms of shift speed, most definitely
The tiptronic has no rev matching on downshift…. That’s a deal breaker.
Considering the Tiptronic came out in the 90s, it is what it is
And for rev match on the PDK, you'll need the Sport button or Sport Chrono package
Where do u get your phone holder from ?
I got it from Lazada bro, just search for CD slot phone holder.
Bro...can u review cayenne 2011 hybrid...i plan to buy one tq
If I do come across one, will try to 👍🏼
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Your video was good but u have to stop saying slush box that's rude 😅
P D K =
PROTON DOPPEL KUPPLUNG
PERODUA DOPPEL KUPPLUNG