Damien Willemse is still no. 1. But we are building lekker depth. I have been very impressed with Fassie's defence, he's been putting his body on the line!
On criticising Rassie, I studied philosophy at bachelors level and I found that there were generally two kinds of critiques of primary texts. The first is someone who comes from the outside and tries to find what is wrong with the text according to their perspective. The other is someone who enters the text, assumes that the reason we’re still reading the text several hundred years later is because the author was pretty smart and the text contains an essential insight, and so they try to understand it on its own terms first. I think the latter type is always more interesting, because it actually tells us about the text, while the former is just the person making the critique talking about themselves. There is another popular South African rugby podcast where one of the anchor members is very much in the first camp and every week we just get the same monologue of the guy talking about himself. I think if we say that Rassie is a smart coach we should act like it and critique him in the second way. I think you guys very much tend towards the second kind of critique and, as a result, your podcast is always far more interesting.
Excellent rugby pod, thanks MW and Harry for the insightful discussions, not only about our great sport rugby, but the 'philosophy of life' behind everything, also sport(s).
This podcast fast becoming my favourite. Thanks MW. Against Leinster there was a moment when Cameron Hanekom and Elrigh Louw - with the other Bulls forwards - stalled in a maul and Elrigh basically by himself, in typical AB's fashion of yesteryear, forced the Leinster boys back, stepped over the ball and Hanekom did some damage with it. Boy, that was the moment I realized he got it. Pure grit and he guy has some dawg in him. If only Hanekom can stay injury free, bulk up a bit, it would be awesome to see those two hunt together as Boks.
Hopefully Manie isn't yanked off after 30 min cluthing his finger. I hope he has a MOTM performance without the burden of goalkicking and silences the doubters (which include me at this point)
I've said this once before, Manie might be on the cusp of becoming the player the team just cannot do without. Maybe even become one of the greats. I don't know i just get that sense and maybe Rassie sees that in Manie as well. Yes he is doing bad at the moment and make unthinkable mistakes but when that thing in his head clicks, its going to be game on. The barrage of hate towards him was not criticism is it was full on abuse. Abuse of his character and him as a man. And that is not on. No one deserves it.
If all the great Pollard has done over and over again in test rugby, has not silenced many bok fans from certain parts of our country that wants him out of bok group asap, and that he is not the player we cannot do without, how on earth will Manie with his current bmt problems and inconsistency ever convince most bok fans, since he had such crucial bad performances already when it mattered most? Bok fans a peculiar breed, driven by lots of passionate provincialism bias, whether we agree with all of it or not, that is just the Saffa way and will always be. And in some strange way, it is also our strength, no? Suggestion for a future Lekker rugby pod topic after bok victory this weekend, that will be real interesting to philosophize about: 'The curious case of bias passionate Boks fans'? ;-)
This was the podcast I was looking for after all the other ones didn't really want to talk about Manie. It's was frank and fair. You guys are really having conversations that no one else is having. It's very good.
Hi Harry, I hear you. Interesting stat is that Manie & Handre were neck & neck up to early 2023. But then he fell off the bus, figuratively. Horribly. So stats suggest the selectors knew what they were doing when selecting that RWC squad. Plus Manie is better defensively and his out of hand kicking is also generally better. But, one cannot argue Pollards ice running through his veins. Supercool & collected. Handre, the bigger the moment, the bigger the man. So, I reckon Rassie has got it spot on this weekend with Pollard off the bench. That was Rassie's big error in Santiago. Anyway, great show, huge rugby IQ between the 2 of you, thanks
100% agree with Harry that Rassie could have killed a young bloke’s career had he dropped him ‘because of that kick’; great he didn’t. Also that Rassie said the responsibility for the loss lay with the team missing other earlier opportunities.
What would be super interesting after the RWC concludes is a chat regarding the newer players that appear to have come through well, as we build depth, and also those that didn’t perhaps do as well…
On MW’s point, Rassie himself welcomes criticism & comment; I don’t think any of us should hold back. Of course there’ll be some Rassie supporters who feel he’s beyond criticism; not so! Fortunately anyway most of us admire the guy & marvel at his smarts, but he ain’t perfect! To me the greatest attribute of Rassie is he manages to find & attract the best people, to give them space & scope to grow, and engenders their loyalty over time & trust. Nienaber, Jones & Walters are coach examples.
Hi Sean. Always good to hear from you. I think the issue around Rassie is not necessarily about Rassie himself, but rather people's reaction to him. Similar to the Manie debate, to some he is untouchable and to others, unbearable.
It's not only that 1 goal kick, he needs to be able to find the sideline too. But unless I'm mistaken it was Libboks' kick that set up the opportunity to take the penalty kick and so it was his moment of redemption. We can only imagine how disappointed he must've been and perhaps how determined he is now to perform and Rassie is giving him that chance.
@@groenrizla2513 Only Manie can play himself into a trustworthy goal kicker. Manie has to make a massive effort to be the best in more than one position. Manie has to become like Kolbe. Only Manie can cancel himself out of the Springbok glory. He had a year since the last RWC to work hard for Springbok glory..,.. many are wanting his jersey.
The high tackle law is dubious imho. What is possibility that an attacking team can “play” to drop down in attack and hence “milk” a yellow from defender?
I think all of Rassie's percieved strategies makes for great conversations, but R keeps his cards close to his chest. Only the coaches and the team are in the know, and that is why there isn't any panic. R said a few games ago that we will lose some games, but we have clear strategy forward, albeit the public not being in the know. I think R is the best guy to take us to the next WC, and I fully trust him with it. Still very good conversational topic for us to kick around. R knows where he is going with Manie, and so does Manie. We are in good hands
No panic anywhere. But Rassie was not happy! First time in 2024 he was proper woes. I feel a big response coming and happy the boys will be ultra motivated.
@@megafoonsport it's fine. I listen to the whole thing anyway. It's just if you're going to make the effort to put up the times, may as well load the chapters.
For Rassie, I think play off games are vitally important; or rather the team’s ability to play well in play off games. That’s how we got through 3 x 1-point play off wins in RWC2023. I’m wondering if Rassie maybe gambled freely with the first Arg game, thinking that a possible loss would turn the 2nd Arg game into a fabricated play off and offer his team an extra practice round of play offs. Not saying Rassie gave away that first game, but he probably appreciates any opportunity to expose his team to play offs, even fabricated ones.
Long story short, what better test could the Boks have than to make a win or die final out of the RC and to have it at home, on Ebens' 128th cap. This is it, this is the test, like a RWC QF, SF or final. I expect a Boklash.
I think that's spot on, Libboks' springbok career may well have ended if he wasn't included in the squad, however I think if Sacha was fit, Libbok would've been out.
re "lekker"!! actually afrikaners emigrated to argie around 1910. and the very last generations still praat die taal ... lekker is not new! and you can buy koeksisters in patagonia. i know, i've just been there
No not Afrikaners, in a historical context it was a number of the Boers that migrated there after they were defeated by the British and said they'd rather move to another country than be governed by the colonial British and yes originally they still spoke the Eastern border dialect known as die Taal or Boeretaal. I believe some returned to SA at a time too. The Eastern border dialect was removed from public when the Western Cape Afrikaner intellectuals decided to create 1 dialect in 1920 or 21. Before then there were many different Afrikaans dialects including 6 in the Cape alone. They removed the bantu words the Boers had adopted and the history books were rewritten to create 1 Afrikaner nation with 1 history and as recently as 20 years ago there was still a strong Boer decended community calling for the re-establishment of at least part of the Boer Republics that were stolen by the British, the contraversial TerreBlanche being 1 of them. The remnants of those in Argentina have almost disappeared through intermarrying and adopting the local culture and language. History has change alot since then, even words in SA have been redefined in the dictionaries to become racist or offensive terms, all to align the artificial country of SA with Western globalist agendas.
The evidence with Manie is that the Boks have won 90% of the games where Manie starts. I get the feeling that Harry, especially, struggles with partiality/subjectivity? Harrie talks about manie supporters being emotional, then uses phrases like how he loves Manies, throws in some emotive medieval chanting, talks tears etc. No, Harry is the emotive thinker, not so much the people in the comments. Just my thughts. Anyway, great podcast
Howzit Winston. I use stats fully seasoned. So we try not to use small sample sizes of team outcomes to justify individual participants. Manie has a job to do as kicker and I bet he’s far harder on himself than anyone else. Over a number of years, his goal kicking is between 45 and 65%. That’s not ok. So, wins can come despite not always bc of. Over the same time, with far greater kicks, HP is 80-85%. Many teams would move on. We haven’t. We want ML to succeed. As a WP fan for life, I REEEEEEALLLLLY want it. But we have to live in reality. With less than 20 Tests, ML isn’t a reliable GK
Rassie was complacent, in a game that should be won, by making experiences. As a fan of South Africa rugby, I am not happy at all with the situation where we are now. No margin for errors! One match where one or two yellow cards can be enough to SA be defeated. Let's see what happens (as Portuguese, I have also sympathy to Spanish Language countries, so if Argentina wins it does not hurt so much).
With reference to questioning Rassie, he is very human. But sometimes podcasters are too busy justifying there own misreads. So Rassie's real mistake in Santiago was not starting Manie. Like Kwagga is a great bench player, Manie is a great starter. Finish with Pollard or Sascha, but start with Manie. Anyway, i reckon you 2 really know your rugby and both of you read Rassie well. He is a little off tilt. But you guys under rate Manie and over rate Sascha. Rewatch Sascha in CT, he nearly lost us that game. But, Sascha will be great once he realises the team is more important than his personal glory
Sacha played like a 22-year old star in his second Test on a bad peg against a desperate AB side: such a high ceiling but still so much to learn. Sky’s the likit
@@earlofdurban Yip, Cape Boykie born and bred, Jewish i think : best find of the past two Seasons • MW is VERY sharp in drawing him in and Teaming up Harry is by now our ‘ZA Rugby Football Philosopher and Chief Strategy Analyst’ one can now begin to say… A REALLY supremely talented Guy, well spoken. intellectually as agile as you can get ~ but it is clear to see to anyone Loving this Game so passionately‼️💫🥂 🪖 🇿🇦 🏉
We might miss some of Willie's organizational reading, wonderful servant to Bok rugger, BUT Fassie is becoming our number 1 full back.
Damien Willemse is still no. 1. But we are building lekker depth. I have been very impressed with Fassie's defence, he's been putting his body on the line!
On criticising Rassie, I studied philosophy at bachelors level and I found that there were generally two kinds of critiques of primary texts. The first is someone who comes from the outside and tries to find what is wrong with the text according to their perspective. The other is someone who enters the text, assumes that the reason we’re still reading the text several hundred years later is because the author was pretty smart and the text contains an essential insight, and so they try to understand it on its own terms first. I think the latter type is always more interesting, because it actually tells us about the text, while the former is just the person making the critique talking about themselves.
There is another popular South African rugby podcast where one of the anchor members is very much in the first camp and every week we just get the same monologue of the guy talking about himself.
I think if we say that Rassie is a smart coach we should act like it and critique him in the second way.
I think you guys very much tend towards the second kind of critique and, as a result, your podcast is always far more interesting.
@@kevinewert8546 Thank you. I think we can thank Harry for that!
…this is one of the most sensible and ‘spot on’ comments in critigue i’ve EVER read on a Rugby Football podcast : WELL DONE‼️
Complimént‼️‼️💫
🪖
@@kobusdutoitbosman6240 thanks boet!
I was taught to do this in my intel and philosophy classes. Fascinating you picked up on that.
@@HaribaldiJones-d6d I’m not surprised to hear you studied philosophy! There’s a familiarity to the way you think about things.
Loads of fascinating stuff discussed and commented on over the one our 🎉 super 👌
Thanks for watching!
Excellent rugby pod, thanks MW and Harry for the insightful discussions, not only about our great sport rugby, but the 'philosophy of life' behind everything, also sport(s).
@@BM-vz1938-s8g Don't know if you've seen it before, but you will love Harry's confessions!
ua-cam.com/video/sU2DXZzVMNY/v-deo.html
Really enjoy your chats guys. Thank you.
Cheers DR
Good discussion. Always good listen to you!
This podcast fast becoming my favourite. Thanks MW. Against Leinster there was a moment when Cameron Hanekom and Elrigh Louw - with the other Bulls forwards - stalled in a maul and Elrigh basically by himself, in typical AB's fashion of yesteryear, forced the Leinster boys back, stepped over the ball and Hanekom did some damage with it. Boy, that was the moment I realized he got it. Pure grit and he guy has some dawg in him.
If only Hanekom can stay injury free, bulk up a bit, it would be awesome to see those two hunt together as Boks.
He has great core strength
@@cobusbrits2 you are wide awake ~ WELL DONE❗️💫🥂
bos
🪖
🇿🇦
I think if Rassie had a dream it would have been to win in Nelspruit in front of his own people, even if he needs to suck up a loss in Argentina
@@AdriaanWindt agreed
Great content and Harry's insight is next level. Enjoy everything about this podcast 💪
Thanks a lot, Tom!
Hopefully Manie isn't yanked off after 30 min cluthing his finger. I hope he has a MOTM performance without the burden of goalkicking and silences the doubters (which include me at this point)
Yes feel we all need to get behind this young bloke & will him on to have a great game
A really good explanation and discussion by Harry on Manie/Handre debate.Thanks for a quality program gents.
Thanks!
Love your podcast! Don’t stop!
We won’t!
I've said this once before, Manie might be on the cusp of becoming the player the team just cannot do without. Maybe even become one of the greats. I don't know i just get that sense and maybe Rassie sees that in Manie as well.
Yes he is doing bad at the moment and make unthinkable mistakes but when that thing in his head clicks, its going to be game on.
The barrage of hate towards him was not criticism is it was full on abuse. Abuse of his character and him as a man. And that is not on. No one deserves it.
@@Dee-Dee-y2k well spoken up for, EXCELLENT comment and sportsmanship, loyalty of sterling quality
TOUCHÉ Dee Dee‼️💫🥂
🪖
🇿🇦
If all the great Pollard has done over and over again in test rugby, has not silenced many bok fans from certain parts of our country that wants him out of bok group asap, and that he is not the player we cannot do without, how on earth will Manie with his current bmt problems and inconsistency ever convince most bok fans, since he had such crucial bad performances already when it mattered most?
Bok fans a peculiar breed, driven by lots of passionate provincialism bias, whether we agree with all of it or not, that is just the Saffa way and will always be. And in some strange way, it is also our strength, no?
Suggestion for a future Lekker rugby pod topic after bok victory this weekend, that will be real interesting to philosophize about:
'The curious case of bias passionate Boks fans'? ;-)
@@BM-vz1938-s8g I agree with you.
Manie is at genius level.
I love Rassie! In one video he said "I see dead people" 😂😂😂 his authenticity is to be admired.❤❤🎉🎉
This was the podcast I was looking for after all the other ones didn't really want to talk about Manie. It's was frank and fair.
You guys are really having conversations that no one else is having. It's very good.
We try to be intellectually curious and honest. (Fail at times!😂)
Hi Harry, I hear you. Interesting stat is that Manie & Handre were neck & neck up to early 2023. But then he fell off the bus, figuratively. Horribly. So stats suggest the selectors knew what they were doing when selecting that RWC squad. Plus Manie is better defensively and his out of hand kicking is also generally better. But, one cannot argue Pollards ice running through his veins. Supercool & collected. Handre, the bigger the moment, the bigger the man. So, I reckon Rassie has got it spot on this weekend with Pollard off the bench. That was Rassie's big error in Santiago. Anyway, great show, huge rugby IQ between the 2 of you, thanks
Love this: good substance chat
just another biased libbok sheeple. Pollard showed libbok a thing or two in the 12 minutes that he was on.
Canaan Modie, Grant Williams, Damian Willemse, RG Snyman, Franco Mostert. Above to play England at end of year tour. Frightning additions.....
100% agree with Harry that Rassie could have killed a young bloke’s career had he dropped him ‘because of that kick’; great he didn’t. Also that Rassie said the responsibility for the loss lay with the team missing other earlier opportunities.
What would be super interesting after the RWC concludes is a chat regarding the newer players that appear to have come through well, as we build depth, and also those that didn’t perhaps do as well…
Coming up!
On MW’s point, Rassie himself welcomes criticism & comment; I don’t think any of us should hold back. Of course there’ll be some Rassie supporters who feel he’s beyond criticism; not so! Fortunately anyway most of us admire the guy & marvel at his smarts, but he ain’t perfect!
To me the greatest attribute of Rassie is he manages to find & attract the best people, to give them space & scope to grow, and engenders their loyalty over time & trust. Nienaber, Jones & Walters are coach examples.
Hi Sean. Always good to hear from you. I think the issue around Rassie is not necessarily about Rassie himself, but rather people's reaction to him. Similar to the Manie debate, to some he is untouchable and to others, unbearable.
Love your anologies
Thanks
to stay on top you must lose make you work harder
Why are you guys talking about Manie kicking when we were informed yesterday that Cheslin will be kicking?
It's not only that 1 goal kick, he needs to be able to find the sideline too.
But unless I'm mistaken it was Libboks' kick that set up the opportunity to take the penalty kick and so it was his moment of redemption. We can only imagine how disappointed he must've been and perhaps how determined he is now to perform and Rassie is giving him that chance.
@@groenrizla2513 Only Manie can play himself into a trustworthy goal kicker. Manie has to make a massive effort to be the best in more than one position. Manie has to become like Kolbe. Only Manie can cancel himself out of the Springbok glory. He had a year since the last RWC to work hard for Springbok glory..,.. many are wanting his jersey.
@peacefulheart1431 I think Libbok has dropped to 4th in the pecking order after Pollard, Sacha and D Willemse.
The high tackle law is dubious imho.
What is possibility that an attacking team can “play” to drop down in attack and hence “milk” a yellow from defender?
I think all of Rassie's percieved strategies makes for great conversations, but R keeps his cards close to his chest. Only the coaches and the team are in the know, and that is why there isn't any panic. R said a few games ago that we will lose some games, but we have clear strategy forward, albeit the public not being in the know. I think R is the best guy to take us to the next WC, and I fully trust him with it. Still very good conversational topic for us to kick around. R knows where he is going with Manie, and so does Manie. We are in good hands
No panic anywhere. But Rassie was not happy! First time in 2024 he was proper woes. I feel a big response coming and happy the boys will be ultra motivated.
Yes agree fully
I just want to add that I really enjoy your MW's discussions every week and your in depth analysis and interesting angle of approach
Only a gamble if you can't see past the next Saturday.
As for who finishes, let's hope Lukhanyo comes on as a 13, that's his spot. Kriel can shift to wing or 15.
Un saludo a todos los argentinos que nos están viendo, ¡tenéis un equipo increíble y que gane el mejor en Nelspruit!
Does anyone have an update on Lood's injury??Is he ever coming back?
From what I know he wll be back after the end of the year tour
@@gnarly3256 thx
Can you load the menu of times into the chapters on you tube so people can browse them?
@@W0nderer I thought I had. I'll fix it, sorry
@@megafoonsport it's fine. I listen to the whole thing anyway. It's just if you're going to make the effort to put up the times, may as well load the chapters.
@@W0nderer I fixed it already 😁
For Rassie, I think play off games are vitally important; or rather the team’s ability to play well in play off games. That’s how we got through 3 x 1-point play off wins in RWC2023. I’m wondering if Rassie maybe gambled freely with the first Arg game, thinking that a possible loss would turn the 2nd Arg game into a fabricated play off and offer his team an extra practice round of play offs. Not saying Rassie gave away that first game, but he probably appreciates any opportunity to expose his team to play offs, even fabricated ones.
Rassie gambled on the last Argentina test exactly as he did in the RWC but this time he decided to put the money on a different dog.
Long story short, what better test could the Boks have than to make a win or die final out of the RC and to have it at home, on Ebens' 128th cap. This is it, this is the test, like a RWC QF, SF or final.
I expect a Boklash.
Me too
I think that's spot on, Libboks' springbok career may well have ended if he wasn't included in the squad, however I think if Sacha was fit, Libbok would've been out.
Probably
But can't Manie adequately cover FB with HP at stand off?
Yes probably can but why take off a fullback and put a FH there?
I'm just not sure how much international experience Manie has at FB..
@sakabula2357 meant cover... for Fassi. Anything can happen. If you move KLA, then you upset whole line by shifting Jesse to wing.
Everytime I question Rassie's selection I have some bafoon asking me how many world cups I have won. 😂😂😂
WC 2019 England broken by Am - Mapimpi try. Have been many othere. Sadly Mapimpi not there BUT Fassie is.
I dont think AM is a "Bomb Squad", more injuries
Elrich has replaced Cam as the investment for the future.
@@carlosl-f2433 I think he has maybe replaced Evan Roos but Cam will still get his chance. I'm very excited about him
Upload to Spotify please. 😊
It's up!
linktr.ee/megafoon?ltsid=a735a5d6-7a90-4f75-8e5f-977e4ce99cb6
re "lekker"!! actually afrikaners emigrated to argie around 1910. and the very last generations still praat die taal ... lekker is not new! and you can buy koeksisters in patagonia. i know, i've just been there
Yes I've heard of that...they refused to live under the British I think..Nice bit of forgotten history you brought up there...
No not Afrikaners, in a historical context it was a number of the Boers that migrated there after they were defeated by the British and said they'd rather move to another country than be governed by the colonial British and yes originally they still spoke the Eastern border dialect known as die Taal or Boeretaal. I believe some returned to SA at a time too.
The Eastern border dialect was removed from public when the Western Cape Afrikaner intellectuals decided to create 1 dialect in 1920 or 21. Before then there were many different Afrikaans dialects including 6 in the Cape alone.
They removed the bantu words the Boers had adopted and the history books were rewritten to create 1 Afrikaner nation with 1 history and as recently as 20 years ago there was still a strong Boer decended community calling for the re-establishment of at least part of the Boer Republics that were stolen by the British, the contraversial TerreBlanche being 1 of them.
The remnants of those in Argentina have almost disappeared through intermarrying and adopting the local culture and language.
History has change alot since then, even words in SA have been redefined in the dictionaries to become racist or offensive terms, all to align the artificial country of SA with Western globalist agendas.
The evidence with Manie is that the Boks have won 90% of the games where Manie starts. I get the feeling that Harry, especially, struggles with partiality/subjectivity? Harrie talks about manie supporters being emotional, then uses phrases like how he loves Manies, throws in some emotive medieval chanting, talks tears etc. No, Harry is the emotive thinker, not so much the people in the comments. Just my thughts. Anyway, great podcast
@@winstonwiggill2824 No, I don't think so. Harry is definitely the more objective between the two of us!
Howzit Winston. I use stats fully seasoned. So we try not to use small sample sizes of team outcomes to justify individual participants. Manie has a job to do as kicker and I bet he’s far harder on himself than anyone else. Over a number of years, his goal kicking is between 45 and 65%. That’s not ok. So, wins can come despite not always bc of. Over the same time, with far greater kicks, HP is 80-85%. Many teams would move on. We haven’t. We want ML to succeed. As a WP fan for life, I REEEEEEALLLLLY want it. But we have to live in reality. With less than 20 Tests, ML isn’t a reliable GK
With the Bulls maybe 😅
Rassie was complacent, in a game that should be won, by making experiences. As a fan of South Africa rugby, I am not happy at all with the situation where we are now. No margin for errors! One match where one or two yellow cards can be enough to SA be defeated. Let's see what happens (as Portuguese, I have also sympathy to Spanish Language countries, so if Argentina wins it does not hurt so much).
Yes, take titles on offer as soon as practicable. Life is uncertain. Also, the #1 rank is fun to keep
Go Argentina 🇦🇷
Go Bokkie .
With reference to questioning Rassie, he is very human. But sometimes podcasters are too busy justifying there own misreads. So Rassie's real mistake in Santiago was not starting Manie. Like Kwagga is a great bench player, Manie is a great starter. Finish with Pollard or Sascha, but start with Manie. Anyway, i reckon you 2 really know your rugby and both of you read Rassie well. He is a little off tilt. But you guys under rate Manie and over rate Sascha. Rewatch Sascha in CT, he nearly lost us that game. But, Sascha will be great once he realises the team is more important than his personal glory
Sacha played like a 22-year old star in his second Test on a bad peg against a desperate AB side: such a high ceiling but still so much to learn. Sky’s the likit
Dont forget Faccie's speed which is important against Puma's, the ankletap
Is Harry South African?
@@earlofdurban Yip, Cape Boykie born and bred, Jewish i think : best find of the past two Seasons
• MW is VERY sharp in drawing him in and Teaming up
Harry is by now our ‘ZA Rugby Football Philosopher and Chief Strategy Analyst’ one can now begin to say…
A REALLY supremely talented Guy, well spoken. intellectually as agile as you can get ~ but it is clear to see to anyone Loving this Game so passionately‼️💫🥂
🪖
🇿🇦
🏉
No. He's Canadian. Born in South Africa.
CT boy; ended up working cross-border global scandal etc based where scandal is biggest + baddest (USA like Marco M)
Pumas👍🏻🇦🇷🐆. Boks👎🏿🇬🇾🦒
Boks 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦