I was born into the Pentecostal church and was very involved until the time I was 25. I have been out for about 3 years now and I can’t explain the freedom that I feel. However, it has been very hard to come to terms with the trauma and scars that have been left because of my life in the Pentecostal church. I’m grateful for people who can relate and videos like this assuring me that I am not alone.
Thank you for your talk, I’ve just left the upci/WPF organization in July. I joined when I was 18 years and mustarded my way through for 25 year. I got to a point I could not leave up to the high standards. I thank God my family is not in the church so they supported my journey of leaving, it was so hard. But all these talks have helped me to be strong. I just got my ears pierced and it was such a liberating feeling
Your exactly right about the legalism. It evolved over the years. I appreciated also your statement of "it's a viscious cycle that leaves you exhausted". How true. Good conversation! Thanks.
I just heard her interview on the Cultish podcast and was blown away. I’ve never heard anyone describe everything that I went through and the whole process of coming out of it. It was incredible basically heading my life story being told
Jennifer also has a book you would probably really enjoy. 🙂 It's a more detailed telling of her personal story and her exit from the UPC. It's a great book. www.amazon.com/Free-Legalism-Breaking-United-Pentecostal/dp/1087259134/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Free+breaking+out+of+the+united+pentecostal+church&qid=1613998651&sr=8-1
I'm a former UPC member. I completely understand the Holy magic hair!! It happened to me one Sunday morning. I was called up stairs into the sanctuary during service from teaching my Sunday school class. There the women were at the alter letting down their hair, crying, and speaking in tongs. I was told to go to the alter and let down my hair also. I had no idea what that was even about! I stood there watching knowing in my heart there was something very wrong in doing that, I couldn't do it. I went back down to my Sunday school class troubled in my heart, and mind. That was one of the many things I started to question in my journey out of the UPC. I LOVE your channel! And I want to thank you so much! Glory to God! 💕 I relate to everything!! It has helped me come to realize just how much I was driven by fear, manipulation and what I call... Their holy idol of a dress code.
The prevailing spirit over that organization is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads us to truth and freedom, not error and bondage. The devil will speak truth temporarily to entrap you before the lies begin. By their fruit you will know them.
I was raised UPC also, and I been out for awhile but being raised UPC you feel like you're going to hell no matter what you do ... You'll never be good enough because of all the things you could not do and I still suffer from feeling like everything is going to take me to hell. I do still believe in some of it but I really think God looks at your heart...not what you wear. I went to church group camp meets and I felt so not good enough.. never ever was I ever good enough..😔 And still deal with it.
Thank you for speaking out. I was in u.p.c. for 15 years , when God spoke to me about hair and holiness, it took me awhile but I cut it. I'm out now and I've learned prayer is my covering.
Excellent, ladies! Thanks for doing this- very good discussion that should prove helpful to many. Another woman who has been through it herself needed to interview Jennifer. Men just do not relate the same. One quote from Deanna Jo that stands out and says a great deal is "...And you realize, 'I don't even know who I would have been as a person had I had the freedom to just live a normal life.' But we'll never know now because you can't go back and re-do that. It's over."
It’s sad I left that church about 25 years ago it was hard because of the teaching their very legalistic it’s frightening because they instill fear in you they were mean I feel we lived to please man instead of God I’m so glad I got out I never felt good enough either God is so good and he’s merciful to all of us we are all sinners we all fall short thank God he’s the powerful one and died for us and we are made good through him just listening to you talk brings back bad feelings it’s sad how they feel I still have people that look at me like I’m lost but God knows I’m not going to deal with them or try to convince them I’m saved I know God loves me and it’s his mercy that has saved me
Jesus paid for all the sins of all the world (past, present, and future). That payment is put to your account when you have believed on Christ alone for salvation.
My assurance of salvation is solely the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The gospel is simply 1 Corinthians 15 :1-4. When you have believed you have repented unto life. God bless you.
This is a very helpful video to many and I can relate to most of it. The hair thing caused me so much stress. I actually prayed when I was expecting that I wouldn't have a girl. I didn't want her to go through my hell. My hair went to my heels! After sickness it looked horrible...as you can imagine. God blessed me and I had four boys. I still apologize to them for how we brought them up. I wasn't born into it and was 19 years old when my husband's parents really led me into it by fear. My husband followed. He had never committed to it....but followed me in. I was first to slowly walk away. He finally saw it.
It's funny that you would mention praying for sons because you didn't want a daughter to have to deal with all the dress standards, I know a UPC woman who had 3 sons and was stressed out every pregnancy hoping she wouldn't have girls because of all of this.
I have been out for 18 years from my cultic church, watching these interviews is bringing back so many memories! Our trinitarian holiness pentecostal church had safety pins available for slits too! But that is only if you got in to the building. We actually had a poster on the outside of the entrance door ( I wish I had the forethought to photograph it now ) stating what would NOT be allowed in the sanctuary. The list included shorts for men or women or children, sleeveless clothes, culottes, skirts & dresses above the knee. I remember people being told they couldn't come in because their two year old had shorts on. I made the mistake of making a comment to one of the "holiness" police when she smugly removed a young couple who were vistors to our church because the woman had a dress that was too short. When the "holiness" cop returned in the building she said to me, "I took care of that!" My heart broke and I knew that this was so wrong. I mentioned to another woman in our church, how I felt. My mistake! She said, "if you go to the White House, you would dress appropriately, this is God's house!" I said, "I view God's house more like an emergency room for hurting people who need Jesus. You don't pick out an outfit for the emergency room, you come as you are!" Of course that got back to the Pastor's wife who went on a tirade of "sermons' which lasted for several weeks.
Wow! That sounds like such an oppressive place to attend! "Holiness" (the way many of them believe it is to be practiced) sure does make them mean and hateful. Strange isn't it? The level of control in these churches is so unhealthy and sadly produces a real "knock down, drag out" attitude.
Leaving UPC is never so simple as just walking out the door. Grace is a term that was so often used to denote something you “fall from” if you do anything wrong. I left years ago and am still trying to learn what grace is. I may need the book! There are beautiful people who are very sincere, but they are sincerely wrong.
Yes, you would enjoy Jennifer's book, another book you might consider is Grace Awakening by Charles Swindoll. He has a book and a devotional by the same title and either one would probably help give you a better understanding of the grace of God. One you understand His grace, your faith in Christ will just become so beautiful and restful!
Guess I’ve got some reading to do…watching your videos and hearing of others “escape”, downright heart wrenching. I got in the church when I was 20. I followed along because it was what was taught/preached. If it’s backed by scripture, how could it NOT be from God. Have I really been “deceived” this whole time? After reading matthew 24, I’m starting to doubt. Now, is that doubt from Satan trying to play tricks in my mind. Or, is it God trying to awaken the REAL truth in me?
Sadly, I found politics, a lack of boundaries and control issues to be big problems within the UPCI as well. They pretended that God opened doors...but just like every other avenue in life, it was connections and nepotism that provided the opportunities.
Had the same problem in middle school, I wanted to be invisible to the point I missed 30+ days of school in one year. She’s absolutely right, it does lead you to judge others and that never sat right with me. I still hear comments from my mom that shocks me, I just think “does she realize what she’s saying?”. I remember hearing about the rapture as a 5-6 year old in sermons and it had the hair on my neck stand up! I’m a very laid back person but I remember the arguments and debates I witnessed as a teen and it’s heartbreaking. I had severe self image issues, felt very ugly and never pretty. Since quarantine began and we haven’t attended, I’ve honestly felt so much better and have been researching all what I questioned growing up. Also an introvert like Jennifer so I know the feeling.
I would love to tell my wife and I story, we were members of an Apostolic ppc church for 16/12 years, I was an ordained Minister under the organization. We experienced the exact same thing of the Abuse of power and manipulation of scriptures for control.
I am from a Southern Baptist background and now going into an Apostolic World Christian Fellowship church and I haven't felt more welcomed and loved in any baptist church like I do this one. It's not legalistic either and they don't care if I came from a baptist background.
I loved it! I’m so glad I came across your Chanel about 4 months ago. I was searching for answers and for people who understood me and there you were 😊. You’ve been a blessing to me Deeanna! Please continue your Chanel and putting out such wonderful videos because you never know when someone like me might be searching for answers❤️ Great job ladies!!!! I loved her book also and her cultish interviews!!!!!
Outdoor hockey in a skirt was awful when everyone else was wearing pants! The first time I wore jeans in front of my Dad he demanded I took them off and I told him I'd take them off if he took off his clothing with mixed fibers - if you're going to take literally one old testament scripture, then we have to take them all literally. He couldn't argue. But I'm evil for being rebellious and questioning things. I'm disappointing "the Lord" (their false version of Jesus of Nazareth). 🤢
That was a clever response (clothing with mixed fibers). lol It's funny how they will pluck a verse out of context but completely ignore the surrounding verses (even arguing that the surrounding ones don't apply now).
Someone quoted to me: A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man (Deuteronomy 22:5) referring to jeans. No problem. I prefer when a woman buys her jeans from the woman's clothing department, rather from the men's. department.
Thank you. Great conversation. I can resonate with all of it! The rapture theology ruined the first 3 decades of my life. So I went into research mode as how could a God of love allow this fear and terror? Well, what I found was astounding. Christians for the first 1800 years of Christianity didn't interpret the scriptures/verses this way. The guy who founded the exclusive sect I was born into (left age 33) came up with this interpretation of scripture. He had a vision. In Ireland. Then he took this doctrine to the US. Just like the visions of the Mormon founder, the seventh day adventist founder etc. New doctrine after 1800 of Christianity - run for the hills! Some Christians in the east have never heard of the rapture. It shows we need to research why we believe what we believe. Reading the scriptures isn't enough as we automatically interpret the verses through the lens of what we have been told. Thanks again.
Julia exactly! I was blessed to have read the bible a lot before and after becoming born again, way before I started going to church. Whenever I went to a church and they began their teaching on this topic, I would say to myself "Christ in Matt 24 doesn't teach this". Abiding in Christ has been the Rock through the decades of my walk with God.
I had a guy I work with asked me "Why do the women wear skirts? I told him let me study on a little more before I give you an answer. So when I studied it out I found out not script says that they have to wear a skirt. The answer I found was it's better to be safe than sorry
“Like a man without a country.” I know this all too well. 3 years later I’m still feeling it. Really appreciate your all’s stories! Being dragged to the altar is one of the things that have kept me away from my old church.
Thank you. If you feel that some support might be helpful, feel free to private message me and I can hook you up with some online private Facebook support groups. I know how hard it can be to navigate your healing alone.
“Being dragged to the alter”….that’s how I’m starting to feel and observe. A lady tried to drag me to the alter 1 week ago. Telling me “God’s trying to tell you something but you’re NOT listening”….she had such a grip on me. But, I held my ground. I’ve been feeling “disillusioned” for awhile now. My husband, who’s NOT in church(now I can start to see why), and I(who is in church), are moving to GA. Pastor and others are not happy that I am leaving. I’m leaving that particular church, NOT God. At this point, I may need to find a whole other faith based church….🤨
Most professing Christians believe that Jesus is necessary but not sufficient. They treat Jesus as a supplement to their righteousness. True Christians know that Jesus is their righteousness. PERIOD. Jesus Christ gets all the glory for saving anyone and as such He will not save anyone who is trusting partially in their good works and partially in Him. To be saved you must admit that you are a sinner (deserving of God's just punishment in Hell) and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before and trust Jesus Christ as your only hope of getting to Heaven. You are trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone. Hail to the King (Jesus Christ).
Jennifer speaks about being scared of the rapture...I remember this one time (I was 16) I was staying at a pastors home in Middlesex NB and during the night (I was sleeping on the couch) when this flash woke me up. I looked out the patio door when another flash went by. At the time I couldn't see no rain so my first thought...the rapture! And then I got real scared and began to think I had missed it. So what did I do? The pastor's family was also there visiting and they had 2 small children and one of them was sleeping in the livingroom on the couch. I went to the livingroom to see if the child was still there because I had been taught that children under the age of understanding (12 and under) basically had a green light. Needless to say I was very revealed when I saw the child still sleeping on the couch. It's really only been since the fall of 2007, after much counseling, that I was able to get past my fear. Mind you I still have some moments when those haunting words come back and I have to take my stand against them...
That teaching is so fear inducing, especially if you've been raised that way in a legalistic group. I've heard similar stories from others. I'm glad you sought counselling and have moved forward with your healing.
This thread was about children hearing preaching about the rapture, hell and the end-times...are you saying that the UPCI church has safeguards in place now to protect children from hearing that type of preaching? I've never heard of it. I hear from people on a regular basis who were traumatized as children by these ideas. It's heartbreaking. There's no way all these stories are untrue considering they span different age groups and different countries...and yet all sound the same. If what we're saying makes the UPC sound like a cult...my question would be; what are we saying that isn't true? If the answer is nothing, maybe you need to look a little closer at your organization and the cultic practices (control and fear). I also want to point out that Jennifer, nor Paula, nor I are bitter. I wasn't sure which one of us you were referring to with your bitterness accusation. I'll just assume all of us, since we've all left the UPC and that is the classic accusation made against those of us who leave (to discredit our stories). The UPC does not have a monopoly on "the truth"...Jesus is the way.
@Mckenzy Weills I just would like to point out, Acts 2:37 does NOT read "what must we do TO BE SAVED." Peter had already told them in verse 21, so why would they ask?The only verse where someone asks the question "what must I do TO BE SAVED" is Acts 16:30. Anyway, as Deanna mentioned, I don't think either one of us are "bitter" in the way you think. I feel blessed beyond measure God gave me a revelation of his grace and love for me and now I can walk freely and confidently in his love. I pray all should be so lucky.
@Woman Warrior of God That is one topic that makes me angry and is a real problem within the Christian community in general (although scarier in legalistic groups that offer no assurance of salvation). It's one that I plan to talk about on my channel in the upcoming year. Scaring children about hell, being left behind, the tribulation, and the devil/demons is nothing short of child abuse in my opinion. Most of the time it's done before kids even have the ability to understand any of this. The fact that so many of us were traumatised by it is proof that it was damaging. I know many adults who still have trouble moving past that fear, so you're certainly not alone in that. I'm sorry you went through that as a young child.
@amg salvation should be based on Acts2:38 only but I find churches commanding new testament believers to pay tithes otherwise they say you will be cursed. The apostles never commanded Christians to pay tithes . Christians are to give freely.
Never ending cycle of not feeling good enough? I have never felt this way in 45 years in the UPCI but i do know females who have never been in a UPCI church that always express a feeling of never being good enough. The spirit of inadequacy needs to be rebuked and cast out.
When you leave, you lose your identity. All the sudden you have preferences. Opinions. Ideas. Suddenly you realize that on your best day you could never merit God's grace. What a gift our Lord has bought us. When i left a best friend told me that she believes like me. She said she couldn't leave because she couldn't take the shunning that i went through. Truth is, Jesus is quite literally amazing. Discovering the Bible for the 1st time.
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” - Romans 8:29 (KJV)
I thought you are telling my story as well. I think if we cut our hair doesn’t make us responsible if our husband cheats or if someone else in the church or otherwise decides to cheat on their wife. I had three different men whisper in my ear and I should’ve went to the pastor about it I wish now that I had of. Single person, married when I started going to upc. My husband said he did not marry into the Amish and he did not like me or my daughter wearing skirts no make up he said I look like an old grandma
When I was 7 I vacation Bible school was coming up and I was informed it was time for me to receive the Holy Ghost. I was instructed to repeat the word Jesus over and over as fast as I could. They would surround me and make me do this 3-4 hours each night for five nights. On Friday Night after 6 hours I "received" the Holy Ghost. I am 49 years old now and so confused about that experience. I am careful because I do not want to blasphym against the Holy Ghost. However, is there really such a thing as being filled with the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.
Maybe. But surrounding a child, making her repeat a word or syllables until she can speak in "tongues," is not the way. The apostles laid hands on people and prayed. The Holy Spirit is God. He is powerful, and can fill a person when He wants to. I believe He fills us when we are saved, because He is the One who draws us to Christ. Some people believe there is a second filling. The women at my church did this to me when I was 9. But they made me repeat nonsense syllables. I was not even a Christian yet. Long story. But I doubt my "tongues" gift was genuine, because 5 years later I had a dramatic (to me) coming to faith in Christ. He quietly drew me to Himself. Doubt gave way to faith. Hardness of heart turned to softness in His light. Sorrow turned to joy. The change in my heart was dramatic. That was my rebirth into Christ. I have never been given tongues since I've been in Christ. So the old practice, was just me learning to speak glossalalia with the coaching of others. In my opinion. When I realized this as an adult, I felt I had been scammed as a child. That is wrong. But the Holy Spirit is with me and in me. He makes all the difference in my life.
Tongues is one of the many gifts of the spirit. Not everyone who is filled with the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues. It took years for me to not only understand but accept it. Having been raised upc we're taught you speak in tongues when you're filled with the spirit. This is not so. That scripture is totally taken out of text. God has brought so many things to life after leaving the upc church.
I think we're baptized with the Holy Spirit (receive Him) when we come to Christ and put our faith in Him...then we can be filled with the Holy Spirit at other times in our walk. Mike Winger has great videos on the subject...I've learned a lot from him
Read "The Parable of the Bicycle." The story of a child who couldn't afford one, so their dad agreed to pay the difference, if they saved up x amount of the $. Jesus paid the price of our gap, to perfection, but he does expect us to at least try. It's like becoming a concert pianist. We must do our part, to try, & he pays our shortage. I have seen this kind of judgement come from other churches, as well. Not just UPC.
I've discovered your videos last week..thanks alot for sharing your experiences and knowledge.. much appreciated ex upc and man without a country..it took me alot of time to shake it off. God is love
I was in a service exactly like jennifer explained with taking the hair down.stoneking was the one preaching. I remember me & a friend of mine just kinda stood there looking at each other [we were both thinking it was crazy without saying anything] and didnt participate
Yes! I felt the same...like I lost 12 years of my life, and during those 12 years, I didn't study and learn about Jesus...I learned UPC doctrine and felt guilty that I didn't like how I looked...it's sad cause we don't because we love God, but He's not requiring it at all...thank you for these videos
Going to a hairdresser for the first time at age 22 was a weird experience. My Mom is age 63 and has never been to a hairdresser. 💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️😍
My daughter is a hairdresser who also has short hair and wears pants.She has brought many friends with facial piercings and tattoos into our UPC church over the last 3 years or so.Everyone has accepted them,no problem,baptized.All UPC’s are not the same.Our church is fantastic!
The pastor of our UPCI church said that they consider the American culture to sustain their belief that women should not wear pants. And he said that we should look at the signs on the public restrooms, that how we know who wears what. I thought that the women did not wear pants at all until I went to a PJs night and saw some with sweat pants.
Yeah, interestingly the guys are not required to look to American culture and do the opposite in an effort to avoid following the "styles of this world". They attend conferences dressed to the absolute highest in men's fashion and the latest trending hairstyle. They also have been allowing some of them to wear shorts and play organized sports. Never any leeway for the women though. In regards to the bathroom sign example I read a funny meme that said "It was never a dress, it's a cape". 😉
I pray for all those who had horrible experiences with the UPC. Hopefully those folks are able to move on in life and find peace beyond their bitterness. Be 100% content in what you believe...as I am in the UPC 😊
I appreciate that you pray for those who have been abused by the UPC. I also hope you would have the courage to speak up if you saw abuse happening in your own church (very few do). Jennifer and I both have peace in what we believe. We've placed our faith in the substitutional atonement of Jesus Christ. That's hopefully where your faith is as well (not in the UPCI).
It's not bitterness it's open wounds. Bitterness describes the survivors as being robbing them of the good and only left bitter. Which means your statement undermines each intentional step to evolve while being shunned! To have real complaints and hurts is not conceding to bitterness. My own mother's response was often a judgment about my feelings labeled bitter, it's a slap in the face. Please don't assume that it's very hurtful
And when you make the decision to leave, and like you ladies have said you don't fit in with your old family and you don't fit in your "new" world, it can become lonely and unless you can stay strong, the pull is there to go back. Or in my case I remember when life began to happen I began to think that this was happening because I left the UPC and God was punishing me. I had sat under a UPC pastor here in Ontario who when people would leave the church, would encourage the congregation from the pulpit to pray that God would bring about evil on those people in order to bring them back. So it is tough and one needs to be strong..
Isn't it terrible that a pastor would encourage saints to "pray evil" on to people who left your church, scripture says it's the kindness/goodness of God that leads us to repentance. Had that pastor had any love in his heart at all, he could have suggested that people show love and pray that God would pour his kindness on the ones who left. I think many people can identify with your worry that the obstacles of life you faced right after leaving were God's punishment. It's important to remember that Christians (even the ones who remain in these churches) don't live easy, trial free lives. It's not easy to leave and support is important.
My current pastor says things like that over the pulpit. The whole “whatever it takes to bring them back IN. Even if they lose their legs, an arm, or whatever”. It’s starting to get absurd. I’m sick and tired of hearing these scare tactics over the pulpit and even from the congregation.
Since leaving the organization was made synonymous with leaving God, I had to deconstruct the whole idea of God and a Holy Book in order to successfully exit the organization.
The apostolic church that I grew up in was so strict and arrogant, they thought that UPC was too “wild”. Our pastor would use UPC as an example of how not to dress lol. So we really did look Amish
Yes, there isn't too big of a leap once you start feeling the UPC look "too worldly" and looking Amish! It's funny, but also a hard way to grow up. I'm sorry that was your experience...and that it was tied (as a must) to being a Christian.
I know of churches like that too. I do attend a UPC church in the Ft. Lauderdale Fl area. Our Pastor is a very unique Pastor I have realized in how he loves people. There are a few Pastor's in our area or a little south that think we are too worldly and warn their saints not to associate with us. We are a fairly large church (800 or so)and have people that are brand new to church of any kind and ones that have been born in this church years as well as their families to everyone in between. Those Pastor's could take a lesson from mine about being a CHRISTLIKE SHEPHERD.
I’m a Youth Pastor at a UPCI church. My sister who was also raised in church has left church, so I definitely have a sense of compassion towards you guys. I’m sure if the church you attended is anything like ours they would be glad to have you in service even if you don’t believe everything. I’m very sorry for the bad experiences you have had. That being said, I do think some people within the UPCI have taken a legalistic approach, but Dr. David K. Bernard deals with the fact that we are not trying to earn our salvation by our works in his book “Practical Holiness A Second Look”. He has a whole chapter on “The Dangers of Legalism”. Earning your salvation is not the purpose of Holiness. Holiness is out of love because we are saved by the grace of God. As far as hair goes here is a more academic representation of the actual UPCI view- which is not “holy magic hair” even though a few ministers have adopted that view. Just because something is tolerated by a district doesn’t mean it’s the official teaching of our movement. ua-cam.com/video/CSTzrFQS_KM/v-deo.html
Thanks for your respectful comment. I typically don't approve videos with links (because I don't have time to screen them...I'm sure you can imagine what some people try to share), but I approved yours because I wanted to respond. I noticed that you drew a comparison between us and your sister who was "raised in church" and also "left church". I never know what people mean by that (having heard so many UPC people speak of those who have left UPC churches as being comparable with having left their faith in Christ). Jennifer and I are both still Christians, hopefully your sister is too. Unfortunately, not all churches are tolerant of you when they see that you don't adhere to the standards...there is a grace period, but it runs out eventually and you become a target for every nut who "gets a burden" in service. lol It's hard to attend church in that atmosphere. That being said, I do know UPC people, who view the dress standards as personal convictions and view you as a believer even if you don't adhere. I wish there were more who did. I'm happy to hear that you understand the grace of God, it gives me hope that more UPC people will hear this beautiful truth. I'm aware of the argument for hair (I was born and raised UPC & stayed until I was 26 yrs old)...I address that viewpoint in a 3-part series. ua-cam.com/play/PLHym7IkAZe9NrqCj8MRw0ALLTrhYJIk8A.html While I do understand that "HMH" is not the official position of the UPCI, I'm also aware that it's way more prevalant than it should be (and promoted by a few of their top ministers). I guess I feel that a doctrine that is so heretical (and fear inducing) should be squashed by headquarters if the real reason for licensing ministers and an official organization is to maintain accountability. Considering the top ministers split the entire organization in the 90's by coming up with a mandatory, annual signing of a document (the Westberg Resolution) pledging belief in the articles of faith and that they would preach them...that includes owning a television set, attending "worldly" entertainments and preaching the dress standards... it's hard for me to believe they couldn't easily wipe out this heresy if they really wanted to. You're a young man, but for those of us a little older, the 90's were not the UPC's finest moment. It's been sad and interesting to watch over the last 15-20 years as they've abandoned many of things they so adamently stood on to the disunity of the brethern.
I agree with Deanna, the 90s were a mess for the UPC. That being said, I urge you to investigate a little (not using UPC sponsored materials) the true definition of the word "holiness". There is nothing in the Bible that said our outward appearance makes us "holy". And, if you are open to that investigation, I would also recommend you to research the origins of the UPCI. I think you would be surprised as to what you would find. And while some UPC people I attended church with still talk to me, most do not, including the pastor's wife. So personally, that makes me feel very uncomfortable entering the building. That being said, it's all water under the bridge. God has healed me, with his help and that of a therapist, I am in a great place in my walk with God. Thank you for taking time to watch the video, God bless.
Responsible Faith My Sister just kind of quit going to church all together when she went to university. I know that phrase could be taken wrongly and I do apologize for that. I know the UPCI is a man made organization and that no one organization could hold the entirety of the revival God has for the church. Every organization is going to have problems- some of them bigger than others. The main thing is that people get to hear the Gospel and how to respond to it in faith. There is plenty of room for disagreements among ministers in the UPCI on things like eschatology, certain applications of biblical principles ect. I admire how much you have wrestled with these issues even if you have arrived at a different understanding of them. To me, I’m just sad no one seemed to be there with good enough answers to your questions. That’s one thing that always gets me, but I know when you have been treated poorly by church people it makes it worse. With some of the stories of “safety pin lady” in this video I wouldn’t want to go to that church. It doesn’t sound welcoming. My Pastor preaches not to mention appearances to anyone who comes to our church. It blesses me to see people on our pew that don’t look Apostolic. That means we are actually engaging our community instead of existing in isolation. My Pastor would be upset if he ever heard of a safety pin lady at our church and would have something to say about that not assisting the Great Commission.
@@joshuapearson9950 A huge problem with the United Pentecostal Church is that they distort the Gospel and create what many term as a three-step plan of salvation. If you do not follow their plan and get water baptized just right, if you do not speak in tongues to prove to everyone that you received God's Spirit, one is considered not saved. That is NOT the Gospel. As to there being plenty of room for ministers in the UPC to disagree, through the years they've made that window smaller and smaller and have forced or kicked out many ministers over the years as they have sought to push people out who have held certain differences.
It's nice to hear that your pastor encourages your church to be kind to newcomers without pressuring them to conform to the image of the UPC. I do have to say, I didn't leave the UPC because I was treated poorly by church people. I left because I studied several of the doctrinal points and didn't find them to be scriptural. While I did experience mistreatment, it wasn't the reason I left. As far as your sister goes, sometimes when we're young we make decisions, but as we age we realize things aren't the way we thought. She may feel her need for faith in Christ in time. God certainly hasn't forgotten her.
Wow, I really enjoy this video, left the UPC and have to say first that I loved my church so much, that I was practically living there, I sing for almost 12 years, I teach for around 7 years, but I noticed that with years I wasn’t agreeing with some teachings and when I wanted to point at the subject, every body was looking at me like the black sheep, the church started with little people, it grew cause all the time and effort of some of us did , doing cell groups at homes every week, inviting people to our homes when it can be dangerous but we love God so much that we didn’t care, so we work hard for it, my cell group multiply many times , we saw the growth, but when I spoked about my calling everything everything started falling apart, had dreams like 12 years ago about seeing myself preaching, teaching etc., many so called prophets came in church campaigns etc and every time I used to hide and led the new members to go in the front a d received their blessings, but many times was cut up in that they wanted to pray for me, telling me that do not shut my mouth, that God put words on me , to preach to the hurting, etc to make it short , even ones the service was about to end and crying the man of God preaching that day called me from the crowd I felt overwhelm and scared like you don’t have idea , I felt like Esther going to see the king 😅, he said the same thing in front of my pastor, and he prayed for me , and I could feel his pain , he told me to be strong, I never imagine that when I was ready to talk about my calling which I did, it brewed a great storm, I did preach ones and that was it, to get all the eyes on me , pointing at me when someone preach about woman’s to shut their mouth in congregation, that no woman should teach a man etc , they started humiliating my husband saying like why your wife is speaking in public, and at church, that he wasn’t men of the house, for real this was a nightmare, I continue 3 years like that suffering in silence, my cell group that I gave my life to make grow was taken from me, I end up crying so much, hurting so much, and everything that I heard from the altar was like stones thrown at me, I stood up like a soldier, I took a beating spiritually but I was strong , into I breakdown, I sawed my husband suffering, crying at night, couldn’t take it anymore, one day decided to put everything on the table as a minister with the the pastors but was even worse, never taught like a good well behaved Christian will get that mad and disrespectful, so even we continue one more day and again everything that we have spoke thrown in the altar, that was it, is hard to deal with legalisms and man made rules, I used to see ladies from church at supermarket with work out pants and they were so pale when they saw me, people trying to hide that’s not healthy for anyone, even some try to enforce and posting that woman in pants on Facebook will go to hell and then seen the same person that made the post on pants at the store is ridiculous, spit to the sky and will fall in your face 😬, I have Hashimoto , thyroid decease my hair fall off almost completely I have to wear extensions 2 years cause I’m not supposed to have short hair and will take away my privilege to sing in the altar, I was afraid to every body to see my bold scalp 😬, but is so crazy like I see everyone enforcing this rules and their kids you found them in pants, makeup etc , even they said makeup is for woman in prostitution at that times and when it comes to 15 years celebrations or weddings etc everyone with makeup 😅, so is just hypocrisy, and keeps happening, is just like chains that they can’t break from but want to taste was doing the opposite, I’m so glad I’m out , fulfilling my calling, I’m preaching, and we have a beautiful church, still struggling not going to lie , is hard to break from that , but I want a church for the hurting and they need to now that Jesus set you free, but I want to ask a question, do you still doing everything in Jesus name? Love your videos. Thank you so much, God bless you and your family.
Wow we had a safety pin lady in our church. We even had a package of safety pins in our lady restrooms. 😂 the young women would go into church bathrooms and safety pin each other up. 😣
Thank God I left the United Pentacostal Church International. I was trusting in my works and in Jesus. That's no trust at all. I said it's grace through faith, but I really believed faith plus works equals salvation. I believed that my repenting of sins was contributing to my salvation.
Great video. The “let your hair down, Ladies” was a part of a couple of retreats that I was at as well. One was led by a southern Missouri pastors wife by the name of Janice Sjostrand, I think. Some of the references are taken from the lady who took her hair down and wiped Jesus’ feet. I remember a woman taking off her leg braces and shouting for healing. I saw her the following year back in the wheelchair. It was probably the beginning of my questions about this whole thing.
I was at that service at well Lori! She preached a while then sang a while, while everyone else was jumping around with their hair flying. I think I was pregnant with my daughter during that time, so about 2002??
I see another comment where you said you emailed me, I didn't receive anything. Did you send it to deannajonorton@gmail.com? Maybe try resending it, I's be happy to send you that info. 😊
Rewatching Jennifer Brewer video and I too tried to stay invisible while at school. Though my physical appearance wasn't so different than the other boys, I was aware that I was different from the other kids. Rough experience while at the same I believed I was God's chosen in the school. Lol.. If I could go back in time!
I remember at our old UPCI church they had a pack of razors for any visiting minister or evangelist that would show up with a beard. Strict NO BEARDS rules on the platform and of course that rolled over to the saints and districts as well. Crazy....
It’s true the fear that’s woven in. I’ve been questioning everything that’s taught but every service I attend, seems like the pastor is preaching about our church being the only true church and everywhere else you go will send you to hell. It’s so much pressure that I don’t know what to do.
This is a common behavior with hair in services. Also I have been to a church where I was met at the door by the safety pin lady bc of my split in my skirt🙄🤦♀️I was a PK & 30 years in it....stories for days.
Thank you for sharing that Amber. I've had so many UPC people contend that it doesn't exist as a practice in any of their churches. It's not true of course, but everyone who shares that they've seen it firsthand, helps to prove that it does.
Not to be unkind, but according to Ruth Reider's book in telling a young woman that because she trimmed her hair and didn't protect her "glory" her husband had an affair etc. Well, what was her reason when her husband had an affair and they are now divorced and she is remarried? Did she not protect her glory? I hope people were kinder to her. While I personally hold certain standards, I would NEVER say something so cruel to someone. I can tell you that if I had to choose between outward appearance and fruits of the spirit, I'll choose fruits of the spirit ALL DAY LONG!! I know several ladies who are amazing ladies who their husbands had an affair etc. and I do not see how the woman can be blamed for the man's CHOICE TO SIN. That is HIS burden to bear, not hers. We are ALL responsible for our choices not other people. Life is not perfect, even serving the Lord as a born againbChristian (I don't mean just Pentecostals), but I wouldn't want to be without him. I think people would do well (me included) to study the fruits of the spirit and see how you match up. We probably will all need to REPENT!
We had singers come to our church once and sold bows and hair products. They weren’t allowed back because they sold things that were colorful. And I have also been to the hair services.
Wow, a church that takes a stand against colorful hair bows. I don't even know what to say to that. It doesn't sound like a healthy place to attend. I also appreciate you sharing that you've been in some of those "hair" services. I've had so many UPC people respond to what I've said about the power in uncut hair teachings by pretending that it's not actually a big thing in the UPCI and that I'm making it up. Interestingly, very few of them will condemn the practice...the way some will lay their hair on people for healing or shake it around in an alter/prayer service for added power to their prayers. While it might not be the general stance of the UPCI, it is way more common than it should be and nobody in leadership has firmly and properly addressed/squashed the practice.
Oh no...I remember Bible quizzing...not a good memory for my son and me...he was bribed into doing it so he could get a skateboard from his step dad...many years of practice...all the siblings were out playing but my son had to be in his room practicing... thankfully I've left the UPC and the abusive marriage
Amen! Be a berean (Acts 17:11) Stop being spoon fed, this is a vertical relationship with Christ, not one that goes through “the man of God” - that latter is a catholic concept. Royal PRIESTHOOD - connection with God.
I went to the UPCI in Hawaii for about 3.5 yrs 96 to 2000. The doctrine of one God & baptism in the name of Jesus is 100% scriptural. I haven't been back to any UPC since except for a few times but I still uphold the doctrine of salvation. The trinity is pagan and the doctrine of demons. If you're experiencing legalism or abuse of some sort then get closer to God. If that means taking a break from attendance then do so.
Just wondering if there are big differences among churches. Our church has not taught guilt. It teaches the love and forgiveness bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. If people leave for a time and decide to return they are welcomed. One couple left, the husband was a licensed minister but our church members are still friends with them. Several of us on the ladies planning committee have short hair and pierced ears. This is a UPCI church in Canada. Would that account for the difference?
I really doubt it, it sounds to me like your church is an anomaly and would be considered "worldly" by the rest of the UPCI. I'm happy you have a church that is loving and less dogmatic about some of these things, but it's certainly not common based on all the people who reach out to me privately. Jennifer is from the USA, I am from Atlantic Canada, and we have several friends spread out all over North America who have had very similar experiences to us and grew up hearing the same teachings.
A genuine question to all who have attended and then left the UPCI or similar groups -- If the legalism over clothing, TV, etc were not part of the picture, and only the doctrinal differences existed between the UPCI and mainstream denominations existed, would you still leave? Please give your thoughts. Thanks!
The salvation theology is why we left. The studying of the standards was simply the gateway for us to question everything we were ever taught. If I had found the UPCs version of salvation to be correct, I would have stayed and abided by the standards as I was always taught to obey my pastor.
Like Jennifer, questioning the dress standards and seeing that scripture did not back up the "rules" and sermons I was hearing at church, was the jumping off point for me. I wondered "What else do they have wrong?". At that point nothing was "off limits" and I had to look into it all. I left because of the salvation theology as well. If I had found their version of salvation to be correct, I probably would have left anyway and looked for a church that taught the same salvation doctrine but with less overreach and personal control. The boundary issues were a big problem for me as well.
I feel sad that you're fearful about simply reading a book from a different viewpoint. There's nothing that says you have to change your mind after reading it, but it might help you gain some perspective on where other people are coming from who leave the UPC and end up believing differently. The UPC weaves a lot of fear into their teachings, and that alone should be a red flag. Perfect love (Jesus) casts out fear because fear has torment. Even David Bernard reads several books by Christians who hold different views than he does. God doesn't turn his back on us simply for having questions. Christ brings peace.
@@ResponsibleFaith and that fear, is real. I guarantee, if I spoke about this to anyone in the “church”, about the fear thing, I’ll bet they’ll say “it’s the devil trying to confuse you or turn you”. Yeah, now, I’m not so sure. Maybe it’s y’all’s viewpoints and condemnation that you beat over our heads every service. Some would even say it’s “fear that’s stopping me from getting the victory”. 🤣; yeah, fear from y’all’s brainwashing techniques. Many scriptures are coming to mind that have taken on “new” meaning for me. Even I have had questions, concerns the last few years about their whole standards. Keep up with these videos.
My family is going through this right now. My son has been hurt tremendously at the hands of those I trusted with his spiritual walk. I was even told if I didn't stop I was dragging my son and myself to hell. Cried for days after that horrible unbiblical comment. Trying to figure out where to go from here. No way can we go back.
I'm so sorry to hear that you're dealing with church conflict. It sounds as though your family may have experienced spiritual abuse. Obviously disagreeing with leadership and standing up for your son will not "drag you and your son to hell". That's a manipulative thing for someone to say. If you're interested in resources you can contact me at deannajonorton@gmail.com
You should not be forced to go to church if you want to go you should have went if you didn't want to go you stay home they shouldn't make you go to church then left you a teenager or not that's all right
But as there false prophets among the people, even so there shall be false teachers among you. Who shall privily bring in damnable heresies, and even denying the Lord God that bought them. And many shall follow their pernicious ways, by way of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of. While they promise themselves liberty, they are servants of corruption.
It is sad to see a person deceived by the devil and leave the church, I am troubled that they kept asking "where is this in the Bible?" I went to the church she is talking about and the pastor preached many times on modesty and hair and gave scripture to all points. I will pray for your eyes to be reopened and the truth revealed to you again.
"The Church" in scripture is not the UPCI (I assume you already know this), it's the worldwide body of Christ...a group of people who have placed our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross as the payment for our sins and our subsequent hope of eternal life through the righteousness of Christ. He took our sin on himself, received the punishment for it and in exchange gave us His righteousness. Just because you leave a man made organization does not mean you are no longer a believer. Whether you agree with her view on the dress standards or not is irrelevant, Jennifer is a follower of Jesus Christ and you do NOT have the ability to pluck her out of his hand (John 10:28). Thank goodness!
@@ResponsibleFaith I understand upci is not the only group of people who love Jesus and I am definitely not trying to pluck anyone out of the hand of God. But I also know when someone leaves the church because it does not allow them to sin the way they would like. The Bible has rules on modesty and hair so it's only natural when a person does not want to adhere to those rules that they would accuse the Church of being a cult and ultimately have to escape it so they could follow Christ correctly. I don't want to keep an argument going so I will say goodbye with one last statement, the Bible is not a buffet you cannot pick and choose what you do and do not believe you either believe it 100% or not at all. bless you and I hope you both find your way back to God someday.
You're assuming a lot here Jay. You're assuming that as women we obviously were silly enough to put ourselves through the hellish hateful exit of a UPCI church just so we could cut our hair and wear pants, you're assuming that we didn't carefully study scripture in an effort to understand what it was saying and you're also assuming that what was written in the Bible was not strict enough and therefore God needed your help. Nowhere in scripture are hair or clothing linked to sin or "holiness" (which the UPC has redefined). You also are not even in agreement with your own organization; as I've heard several of the "scholars" of your group sheepishly admit that hair/clothing is not a heaven/hell issue. Many of them have had to re-frame the standards as a matter of "spiritual maturity" when confronted by someone who studies scripture. Nobody condescends quite like a legalistic Apostolic Pentecostal. Your "concern" for Jennifer and I does not come across as authentic and I highly doubt it was love and care that prompted your comment. As to the view of the UPC being "cultist", which many of us come to after we leave, it's usually when we reflect on how much unhealthy personal control existed within followed by the wonderful exit experience that brings us to that conclusion. Nasty treatment, confrontational interactions, shunning and being completely cut off from people we love are all common experiences. I've been out for 17 years and still have members of my own family and childhood friends who exclude me and treat me like a leper...all for leaving a church. How's that for fruit of the spirit? You'd think with all that tongue talking you guys do, you could display more fruit of the spirit than that.
I agree with Deanna, I think it's insulting to assume (which if you watch the video, you would KNOW that isn't the case) that those of us who have left, did so all willy nilly without putting in the time and effort to research the very foundation of our upbringing. If you watch the video, it is clearly said, "it is much easier to stay than to leave". No one in their right mind would walk away from everything and everyone they know and love without valid reason. And even if the "minister taught on hair and modesty and gave scripture" it is in my right and also my responsibility to research for myself and not take someone else's word for my salvation. I also find it interesting that I have been doing these kinds of interviews and writing for over a year, and all of a sudden, people who claim they went to church with me at some point are starting to take notice.
@@bigjay1973 They didn't leave so they could "sin the way they would like." You're describing something as "sin" that isn't sin, and you're ascribing motives to people even though they've told you otherwise (if you, in fact, watched the entire video). One day, should God so choose to move on your heart, you'll see that the "pick and choose" line you used is a strawman argument. These ladies didn't "pick and choose" from the buffet. They simply took what was actually ON the buffet, and put away the things that man added to the menu in crayon over the last 100 or so years.
About the women wearing the bridges the only thing it says in the Bible that women shouldn't wear men apparel with slacks his man apparel that's in the book of Jeremiah the 10th chapter
We should talk. I enjoy your videos i was raised in the UPC terrible experience. I have a Podcast "The Church Boy." I would love to chat on your site. God bless.
Omg 😮 I don’t even know you’ll, but our lives in the church is the same way, long skirt, hair pull back, the more you look like that, the more Jesus love you. This is so sad, so judgmental, our little church was the only church God will save, I can’t believe I thought Jesus only loved my church, About two years ago, after being there 40 years, the Lord said tell your husband how you feel about that place, we both felt the same way, but never shared our concern about that place to each other, because if you spoke against it, that’s the devil in you. We gone and we are do excited God got us from that place, and by the way, we never visit other churches, because all the other churches is hell bound, so after 40 years we stayed at one location. But God knows the plans He have for us. We so glad to be gone. My daughter told me one day. Mom everybody got to die, but everybody don’t live. I felt so embarrassed your child knows you don’t even have a real life, my whole family left that place and now instead of religion, we have Relationship with God. This is so sad how ppl will manipulate your whole life with a control spirit nothing but witch craft. I’m a minister I remember I was about to pray for a sister in the church, and my sleeves wasn’t long enough, so one of the evangelist came to me and said I don’t want you to pray today, and I ask her, why? she said your sleeves wasn’t long enough. My family is in a detox stage, and we are trying to live a balance life. We thought everything was spiritual. Sad sad sad 😞 detoxing is a must after you leave a place like that
I am thankful that i spent my teens and twenties in the UPCI. I never felt like i gave up anything. I dont feel cheated. It is weird to hear females feeling a strong desire to wear pants. I have never felt a desire to wear dresses or to wear shorts in public. I have never felt cheated by the idea of not going to a secular college. I have never drank alcohol or taken street drugs and i count that a blessing and not something i gave up. I have never gotten a tattoo and i count it a blessing and not something i gave up. Perhaps there are other things i am coveting and envious of, however i have never blamed the UPCI for being the source of envy and covetousness.
UPC prepares you and helps you set yourself apart from the world I was raised the same way as yall and I'm still in it bcuz it's the truth and everything that upc teaches if STRAIGHT OUT THE BIBLE ..
The Holy Spirit is our guide, not a flawed man made organization that has undergone so many shifts and splits over it's 75 ish years in existence that it would be unrecognizable to the forefathers of the movement. I also can't help but point out (as a man) how much easier it is for you to remain in the "holiness movement" than it is for a woman. I disagree with your statement that everything the UPC teaches is straight out of the Bible! I've looked, it's not....that's why the rules keep changing and the goalposts keep moving (usually to accommodate someone with clout) Beards were a no-no...until recently when they came in style and some of the young men wanted them. If it's not "wrong" now, it wasn't wrong 20 years ago either! I see shorts on their boys now and they are allowed to play sports and attend "worldly amusements", did God change His mind? Speaking of "worldly amusements", do you know how many ministers go on cruises? That's permissible now too. It used to be "NO TV"S OR MOVIES", now they all watch Netflix on their smartphones and computers. Were they right to crush our family members and drive young people away over foolish things years ago...but now that their own sons/grandsons want to grow beards it's not worth risking the loss of them over something that's not Biblical? You'll have to pardon me if I have no interest in putting people like that in charge of my life. And that's without me even touching on the works-based salvation they teach. I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you on this.
Ladarion Neal AMEN brother!!! I’ve been in for almost 9 years now I’m so thankful. Get your mind focused on Jesus and His Word instead of religion and traditions. People can let us down but Jesus never does. UPC and UPCI teach truth-straight up!! Ain’t nobody got time to be playing patty cake with Jesus. If you want the real deal go to UPC, if you want a social club to make you feel bad shout all you’re choices than maybe it’s not for you. If you want something real you are not going to find it anywhere else! I know bc I searched!
Hello lady, I have listened to you quite a bit, and I am of the persuasion that you left the United Pentecost because of their legalism. As an African, I have been around many denominations, I have experienced the practical power of God and also the powers of darkness in Africa before coming here. I mean real! Many denominations play with God here, and are powerless. It is true that the UPCI is saddled with legalism and many of their ministers redirected focus on appearance more than God Himself. However, the doctrine of inner and outer holiness, water and Holy Spirit baptism can never be scorned upon by God. You walk the best way in Christ in spirit, appearance and conversation and discard the legalism. Be very careful of what you say about the doctrine and what you write about. Lest you will be a culprit to be sacrificed by Abaddon. I cannot say more.
You can’t just say I accept Jesus as my personal savior and you’re saved, the infilling of the Holy Ghost comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues as the spirit Gives utterance ❤️
I respectfully disagree, based on the following verses: Romans 10:9-11 John 3:16,17 Acts 2:21 Acts 16:30-33 Romans 1:16 John 3:36 John 5:24 1 John 5:13 Ephesians 1:13 John 11:25, 26
@@jenniferc.38 Roman’s 10:9-11 was always taught as the “Roman road to salvation”….is how I remember it. But then, the scripture “study to show thyself approved” is another to NOW I’m seeing it’s to almost cipher through the BS apostolic/Pentecostal folks have been taught. I mean, I could be wrong. Some of the other scriptures could be labeled “easy believing”, too. If you just say, “hey, I believe in Jesus” but continue to lie, cheat, steal, cus, have an adulterous life, I could on. That, to me, don’t mean jack squat. If there’s no outward change or even inward change, you’re lying to yourself. Watching these videos is causing 2nd thoughts of all I’ve been taught for 29 years since I came in at 20 yo. I feel betrayed, lied to, manipulated, guilt tripped, shamed, etc. Any support is appreciated: HELP!.
I just dont get the "legalism" complaint against the UPCI. I have been in multiple UPCI churches in 45 years and i haven't seen what they are talking about. My experiences have been no place near what their experiences have been. I wish these ladies could have gone to the UPCI churches that i did and could have talked with me regarding their issues.
You are the rotten fruit of the UPC and everyone of your comments proves that. Dude get a life already you comment on all her videos multiple comments and we get it you are super holy because of the UPC and your standards.
There is no magic in hair, however it is irrefutable that there is power in self-restraint and obedience. Samson did not have power because of his hair. Samson had power because of his obedience. I personally know females, that did not grow up UPCI, who began having power in prayer once they began honoring holiness standards like not cutting hair. I have seen astounding miracles happen because of their prayers.
I dont understand the complaints some people have about a specific church. I have always viewed the church as a place of refuge and healing. I have been attending UPCI churches for over 45 years, and i can not relate to the idea of 'legalism'. I have never felt rapture fear. I have never felt judged. I imagine drama and gossip exists wherever people are, but i have never been privy to either. I also never notice drama or gossip at the workplace. I think certain types of people are sensitive to those things and find them when they look for them.
If you 2 really want to find truth, do what Yeshua did. He was not a Christian, he was a Jew that practiced Judaism. You should become members of a Messianic Jewish Congregation if you really want to walk the walk.
I was born into the Pentecostal church and was very involved until the time I was 25. I have been out for about 3 years now and I can’t explain the freedom that I feel. However, it has been very hard to come to terms with the trauma and scars that have been left because of my life in the Pentecostal church. I’m grateful for people who can relate and videos like this assuring me that I am not alone.
You're certainly not alone Raquel. Wishing you well as you navigate the healing process.
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
I was born into it as well. Left at almost 19 years old. I’m now 25 and still working through it but God has been so faithful to show me some clarity.
Thank you for your talk, I’ve just left the upci/WPF organization in July. I joined when I was 18 years and mustarded my way through for 25 year. I got to a point I could not leave up to the high standards. I thank God my family is not in the church so they supported my journey of leaving, it was so hard. But all these talks have helped me to be strong. I just got my ears pierced and it was such a liberating feeling
Your exactly right about the legalism. It evolved over the years. I appreciated also your statement of "it's a viscious cycle that leaves you exhausted". How true. Good conversation! Thanks.
I just heard her interview on the Cultish podcast and was blown away. I’ve never heard anyone describe everything that I went through and the whole process of coming out of it. It was incredible basically heading my life story being told
Jennifer also has a book you would probably really enjoy. 🙂 It's a more detailed telling of her personal story and her exit from the UPC. It's a great book.
www.amazon.com/Free-Legalism-Breaking-United-Pentecostal/dp/1087259134/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Free+breaking+out+of+the+united+pentecostal+church&qid=1613998651&sr=8-1
@@ResponsibleFaith just ordered it! Thanks!
My prayer is for the Lord to heal those damaged by the UPC .
Amen.
I'm a former UPC member. I completely understand the Holy magic hair!! It happened to me one Sunday morning. I was called up stairs into the sanctuary during service from teaching my Sunday school class. There the women were at the alter letting down their hair, crying, and speaking in tongs. I was told to go to the alter and let down my hair also. I had no idea what that was even about! I stood there watching knowing in my heart there was something very wrong in doing that, I couldn't do it. I went back down to my Sunday school class troubled in my heart, and mind. That was one of the many things I started to question in my journey out of the UPC.
I LOVE your channel! And I want to thank you so much! Glory to God! 💕 I relate to everything!! It has helped me come to realize just how much I was driven by fear, manipulation and what I call... Their holy idol of a dress code.
The prevailing spirit over that organization is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads us to truth and freedom, not error and bondage. The devil will speak truth temporarily to entrap you before the lies begin. By their fruit you will know them.
Modern day Pharisees and all their traditions, rules and legalistic ways. The very same Spirit Jesus confronted and rebuked when he walked the earth.
I was raised UPC also, and I been out for awhile but being raised UPC you feel like you're going to hell no matter what you do ... You'll never be good enough because of all the things you could not do and I still suffer from feeling like everything is going to take me to hell. I do still believe in some of it but I really think God looks at your heart...not what you wear.
I went to church group camp meets and I felt so not good enough.. never ever was I ever good enough..😔 And still deal with it.
Sorry so late responding Shirley. You were always good enough.
Thank you for speaking out. I was in u.p.c. for 15 years , when God spoke to me about hair and holiness, it took me awhile but I cut it. I'm out now and I've learned prayer is my covering.
Absolutely! Christ is my covering.
Excellent, ladies! Thanks for doing this- very good discussion that should prove helpful to many. Another woman who has been through it herself needed to interview Jennifer. Men just do not relate the same. One quote from Deanna Jo that stands out and says a great deal is "...And you realize, 'I don't even know who I would have been as a person had I had the freedom to just live a normal life.' But we'll never know now because you can't go back and re-do that. It's over."
I thought the same Lois. As much as men may try to empathize (which I do appreciate), this is a subject that needed to be talked about by women.
It’s sad I left that church about 25 years ago it was hard because of the teaching their very legalistic it’s frightening because they instill fear in you they were mean I feel we lived to please man instead of God I’m so glad I got out I never felt good enough either God is so good and he’s merciful to all of us we are all sinners we all fall short thank God he’s the powerful one and died for us and we are made good through him just listening to you talk brings back bad feelings it’s sad how they feel I still have people that look at me like I’m lost but God knows I’m not going to deal with them or try to convince them I’m saved I know God loves me and it’s his mercy that has saved me
Jesus paid for all the sins of all the world (past, present, and future). That payment is put to your account when you have believed on Christ alone for salvation.
My assurance of salvation is solely the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
The gospel is simply 1 Corinthians 15 :1-4.
When you have believed you have repented unto life. God bless you.
This is a very helpful video to many and I can relate to most of it. The hair thing caused me so much stress. I actually prayed when I was expecting that I wouldn't have a girl. I didn't want her to go through my hell. My hair went to my heels! After sickness it looked horrible...as you can imagine. God blessed me and I had four boys. I still apologize to them for how we brought them up. I wasn't born into it and was 19 years old when my husband's parents really led me into it by fear. My husband followed. He had never committed to it....but followed me in. I was first to slowly walk away. He finally saw it.
It's funny that you would mention praying for sons because you didn't want a daughter to have to deal with all the dress standards, I know a UPC woman who had 3 sons and was stressed out every pregnancy hoping she wouldn't have girls because of all of this.
I have been out for 18 years from my cultic church, watching these interviews is bringing back so many memories! Our trinitarian holiness pentecostal church had safety pins available for slits too! But that is only if you got in to the building. We actually had a poster on the outside of the entrance door ( I wish I had the forethought to photograph it now ) stating what would NOT be allowed in the sanctuary. The list included shorts for men or women or children, sleeveless clothes, culottes, skirts & dresses above the knee. I remember people being told they couldn't come in because their two year old had shorts on. I made the mistake of making a comment to one of the "holiness" police when she smugly removed a young couple who were vistors to our church because the woman had a dress that was too short. When the "holiness" cop returned in the building she said to me, "I took care of that!" My heart broke and I knew that this was so wrong. I mentioned to another woman in our church, how I felt. My mistake! She said, "if you go to the White House, you would dress appropriately, this is God's house!" I said, "I view God's house more like an emergency room for hurting people who need Jesus. You don't pick out an outfit for the emergency room, you come as you are!" Of course that got back to the Pastor's wife who went on a tirade of "sermons' which lasted for several weeks.
Wow! That sounds like such an oppressive place to attend! "Holiness" (the way many of them believe it is to be practiced) sure does make them mean and hateful. Strange isn't it? The level of control in these churches is so unhealthy and sadly produces a real "knock down, drag out" attitude.
Leaving UPC is never so simple as just walking out the door. Grace is a term that was so often used to denote something you “fall from” if you do anything wrong. I left years ago and am still trying to learn what grace is. I may need the book!
There are beautiful people who are very sincere, but they are sincerely wrong.
Yes, you would enjoy Jennifer's book, another book you might consider is Grace Awakening by Charles Swindoll. He has a book and a devotional by the same title and either one would probably help give you a better understanding of the grace of God. One you understand His grace, your faith in Christ will just become so beautiful and restful!
Guess I’ve got some reading to do…watching your videos and hearing of others “escape”, downright heart wrenching. I got in the church when I was 20. I followed along because it was what was taught/preached. If it’s backed by scripture, how could it NOT be from God. Have I really been “deceived” this whole time? After reading matthew 24, I’m starting to doubt. Now, is that doubt from Satan trying to play tricks in my mind. Or, is it God trying to awaken the REAL truth in me?
I could write an entire book on all the politics and unfairness in my one year of UPC bible college. It’s all about names and money.
Sadly, I found politics, a lack of boundaries and control issues to be big problems within the UPCI as well. They pretended that God opened doors...but just like every other avenue in life, it was connections and nepotism that provided the opportunities.
Had the same problem in middle school, I wanted to be invisible to the point I missed 30+ days of school in one year. She’s absolutely right, it does lead you to judge others and that never sat right with me. I still hear comments from my mom that shocks me, I just think “does she realize what she’s saying?”. I remember hearing about the rapture as a 5-6 year old in sermons and it had the hair on my neck stand up! I’m a very laid back person but I remember the arguments and debates I witnessed as a teen and it’s heartbreaking. I had severe self image issues, felt very ugly and never pretty. Since quarantine began and we haven’t attended, I’ve honestly felt so much better and have been researching all what I questioned growing up. Also an introvert like Jennifer so I know the feeling.
I would love to tell my wife and I story, we were members of an Apostolic ppc church for 16/12 years, I was an ordained Minister under the organization. We experienced the exact same thing of the Abuse of power and manipulation of scriptures for control.
I am from a Southern Baptist background and now going into an Apostolic World Christian Fellowship church and I haven't felt more welcomed and loved in any baptist church like I do this one. It's not legalistic either and they don't care if I came from a baptist background.
I loved it! I’m so glad I came across your Chanel about 4 months ago. I was searching for answers and for people who understood me and there you were 😊. You’ve been a blessing to me Deeanna! Please continue your Chanel and putting out such wonderful videos because you never know when someone like me might be searching for answers❤️ Great job ladies!!!! I loved her book also and her cultish interviews!!!!!
Thank you Chelsea!
Really enjoyed the interview. You and Jennifer had good chemistry. Hope there are more interviews to come.
That's something I would like to do as well.
Outdoor hockey in a skirt was awful when everyone else was wearing pants! The first time I wore jeans in front of my Dad he demanded I took them off and I told him I'd take them off if he took off his clothing with mixed fibers - if you're going to take literally one old testament scripture, then we have to take them all literally. He couldn't argue. But I'm evil for being rebellious and questioning things. I'm disappointing "the Lord" (their false version of Jesus of Nazareth). 🤢
That was a clever response (clothing with mixed fibers). lol It's funny how they will pluck a verse out of context but completely ignore the surrounding verses (even arguing that the surrounding ones don't apply now).
@@BV1180 How does wearing modest apparel destroy someones mental well-being? Just curious
Someone quoted to me: A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man (Deuteronomy 22:5) referring to jeans. No problem. I prefer when a woman buys her jeans from the woman's clothing department, rather from the men's. department.
Uh, yeah...trust me, UPC's and UPI's just dont get that..
They don’t study the culture behind these verses, it plays a huge role.
I had someone tell me the same thing but it was done in the judgemental and condemning way.
Thank you. Great conversation. I can resonate with all of it! The rapture theology ruined the first 3 decades of my life. So I went into research mode as how could a God of love allow this fear and terror? Well, what I found was astounding. Christians for the first 1800 years of Christianity didn't interpret the scriptures/verses this way. The guy who founded the exclusive sect I was born into (left age 33) came up with this interpretation of scripture. He had a vision. In Ireland. Then he took this doctrine to the US. Just like the visions of the Mormon founder, the seventh day adventist founder etc. New doctrine after 1800 of Christianity - run for the hills! Some Christians in the east have never heard of the rapture. It shows we need to research why we believe what we believe. Reading the scriptures isn't enough as we automatically interpret the verses through the lens of what we have been told. Thanks again.
Julia exactly! I was blessed to have read the bible a lot before and after becoming born again, way before I started going to church. Whenever I went to a church and they began their teaching on this topic, I would say to myself "Christ in Matt 24 doesn't teach this". Abiding in Christ has been the Rock through the decades of my walk with God.
Diana Williams…I just read Matthew 24….do you think the false prophets are the UPC/Apostolic preachers out to “deceive” others no?
I had a guy I work with asked me "Why do the women wear skirts? I told him let me study on a little more before I give you an answer. So when I studied it out I found out not script says that they have to wear a skirt. The answer I found was it's better to be safe than sorry
“Like a man without a country.” I know this all too well. 3 years later I’m still feeling it. Really appreciate your all’s stories!
Being dragged to the altar is one of the things that have kept me away from my old church.
Thank you. If you feel that some support might be helpful, feel free to private message me and I can hook you up with some online private Facebook support groups. I know how hard it can be to navigate your healing alone.
“Being dragged to the alter”….that’s how I’m starting to feel and observe. A lady tried to drag me to the alter 1 week ago. Telling me “God’s trying to tell you something but you’re NOT listening”….she had such a grip on me. But, I held my ground. I’ve been feeling “disillusioned” for awhile now. My husband, who’s NOT in church(now I can start to see why), and I(who is in church), are moving to GA. Pastor and others are not happy that I am leaving. I’m leaving that particular church, NOT God. At this point, I may need to find a whole other faith based church….🤨
Most professing Christians believe that Jesus is necessary but not sufficient. They treat Jesus as a supplement to their righteousness. True Christians know that Jesus is their righteousness. PERIOD.
Jesus Christ gets all the glory for saving anyone and as such He will not save anyone who is trusting partially in their good works and partially in Him.
To be saved you must admit that you are a sinner (deserving of God's just punishment in Hell) and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before and trust Jesus Christ as your only hope of getting to Heaven. You are trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone.
Hail to the King (Jesus Christ).
I hope I can understand this more some day. Grace.
Jennifer speaks about being scared of the rapture...I remember this one time (I was 16) I was staying at a pastors home in Middlesex NB and during the night (I was sleeping on the couch) when this flash woke me up. I looked out the patio door when another flash went by. At the time I couldn't see no rain so my first thought...the rapture! And then I got real scared and began to think I had missed it. So what did I do? The pastor's family was also there visiting and they had 2 small children and one of them was sleeping in the livingroom on the couch. I went to the livingroom to see if the child was still there because I had been taught that children under the age of understanding (12 and under) basically had a green light. Needless to say I was very revealed when I saw the child still sleeping on the couch. It's really only been since the fall of 2007, after much counseling, that I was able to get past my fear. Mind you I still have some moments when those haunting words come back and I have to take my stand against them...
That teaching is so fear inducing, especially if you've been raised that way in a legalistic group. I've heard similar stories from others. I'm glad you sought counselling and have moved forward with your healing.
This thread was about children hearing preaching about the rapture, hell and the end-times...are you saying that the UPCI church has safeguards in place now to protect children from hearing that type of preaching? I've never heard of it. I hear from people on a regular basis who were traumatized as children by these ideas. It's heartbreaking. There's no way all these stories are untrue considering they span different age groups and different countries...and yet all sound the same. If what we're saying makes the UPC sound like a cult...my question would be; what are we saying that isn't true? If the answer is nothing, maybe you need to look a little closer at your organization and the cultic practices (control and fear). I also want to point out that Jennifer, nor Paula, nor I are bitter. I wasn't sure which one of us you were referring to with your bitterness accusation. I'll just assume all of us, since we've all left the UPC and that is the classic accusation made against those of us who leave (to discredit our stories). The UPC does not have a monopoly on "the truth"...Jesus is the way.
@Mckenzy Weills I just would like to point out, Acts 2:37 does NOT read "what must we do TO BE SAVED." Peter had already told them in verse 21, so why would they ask?The only verse where someone asks the question "what must I do TO BE SAVED" is Acts 16:30.
Anyway, as Deanna mentioned, I don't think either one of us are "bitter" in the way you think. I feel blessed beyond measure God gave me a revelation of his grace and love for me and now I can walk freely and confidently in his love. I pray all should be so lucky.
@Woman Warrior of God That is one topic that makes me angry and is a real problem within the Christian community in general (although scarier in legalistic groups that offer no assurance of salvation). It's one that I plan to talk about on my channel in the upcoming year. Scaring children about hell, being left behind, the tribulation, and the devil/demons is nothing short of child abuse in my opinion. Most of the time it's done before kids even have the ability to understand any of this. The fact that so many of us were traumatised by it is proof that it was damaging. I know many adults who still have trouble moving past that fear, so you're certainly not alone in that. I'm sorry you went through that as a young child.
@amg salvation should be based on Acts2:38 only but I find churches commanding new testament believers to pay tithes otherwise they say you will be cursed. The apostles never commanded Christians to pay tithes . Christians are to give freely.
Never ending cycle of not feeling good enough? I have never felt this way in 45 years in the UPCI but i do know females who have never been in a UPCI church that always express a feeling of never being good enough. The spirit of inadequacy needs to be rebuked and cast out.
When you leave, you lose your identity. All the sudden you have preferences. Opinions. Ideas. Suddenly you realize that on your best day you could never merit God's grace. What a gift our Lord has bought us. When i left a best friend told me that she believes like me. She said she couldn't leave because she couldn't take the shunning that i went through. Truth is, Jesus is quite literally amazing. Discovering the Bible for the 1st time.
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
- Romans 8:29 (KJV)
I just binge watching about 6 of your videos. Job well done.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed them.
I thought you are telling my story as well. I think if we cut our hair doesn’t make us responsible if our husband cheats or if someone else in the church or otherwise decides to cheat on their wife. I had three different men whisper in my ear and I should’ve went to the pastor about it I wish now that I had of. Single person, married when I started going to upc. My husband said he did not marry into the Amish and he did not like me or my daughter wearing skirts no make up he said I look like an old grandma
Spot on, you ladies did a great job!
When I was 7 I vacation Bible school was coming up and I was informed it was time for me to receive the Holy Ghost. I was instructed to repeat the word Jesus over and over as fast as I could. They would surround me and make me do this 3-4 hours each night for five nights. On Friday Night after 6 hours I "received" the Holy Ghost. I am 49 years old now and so confused about that experience. I am careful because I do not want to blasphym against the Holy Ghost. However, is there really such a thing as being filled with the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.
Maybe. But surrounding a child, making her repeat a word or syllables until she can speak in "tongues," is not the way. The apostles laid hands on people and prayed.
The Holy Spirit is God. He is powerful, and can fill a person when He wants to. I believe He fills us when we are saved, because He is the One who draws us to Christ. Some people believe there is a second filling.
The women at my church did this to me when I was 9. But they made me repeat nonsense syllables. I was not even a Christian yet. Long story. But I doubt my "tongues" gift was genuine, because 5 years later I had a dramatic (to me) coming to faith in Christ.
He quietly drew me to Himself. Doubt gave way to faith. Hardness of heart turned to softness in His light. Sorrow turned to joy. The change in my heart was dramatic. That was my rebirth into Christ.
I have never been given tongues since I've been in Christ. So the old practice, was just me learning to speak glossalalia with the coaching of others. In my opinion. When I realized this as an adult, I felt I had been scammed as a child. That is wrong.
But the Holy Spirit is with me and in me. He makes all the difference in my life.
The holyspirit gives different gifts of the spirit . Not all will speak in tongues. Paul even speaks on this in Corinthians
Tongues is one of the many gifts of the spirit. Not everyone who is filled with the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues. It took years for me to not only understand but accept it. Having been raised upc we're taught you speak in tongues when you're filled with the spirit. This is not so. That scripture is totally taken out of text.
God has brought so many things to life after leaving the upc church.
I think we're baptized with the Holy Spirit (receive Him) when we come to Christ and put our faith in Him...then we can be filled with the Holy Spirit at other times in our walk. Mike Winger has great videos on the subject...I've learned a lot from him
Read "The Parable of the Bicycle." The story of a child who couldn't afford one, so their dad agreed to pay the difference, if they saved up x amount of the $. Jesus paid the price of our gap, to perfection, but he does expect us to at least try. It's like becoming a concert pianist. We must do our part, to try, & he pays our shortage. I have seen this kind of judgement come from other churches, as well. Not just UPC.
Thanks for doing this Deanna and Jennifer! So much good info in this one
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've discovered your videos last week..thanks alot for sharing your experiences and knowledge.. much appreciated
ex upc and man without a country..it took me alot of time to shake it off.
God is love
I was in a service exactly like jennifer explained with taking the hair down.stoneking was the one preaching. I remember me & a friend of mine just kinda stood there looking at each other [we were both thinking it was crazy without saying anything] and didnt participate
Wow! That would be a strange experience for sure.
Yes! I felt the same...like I lost 12 years of my life, and during those 12 years, I didn't study and learn about Jesus...I learned UPC doctrine and felt guilty that I didn't like how I looked...it's sad cause we don't because we love God, but He's not requiring it at all...thank you for these videos
Going to a hairdresser for the first time at age 22 was a weird experience. My Mom is age 63 and has never been to a hairdresser. 💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️💇♀️😍
My daughter is a hairdresser who also has short hair and wears pants.She has brought many friends with facial piercings and tattoos into our UPC church over the last 3 years or so.Everyone has accepted them,no problem,baptized.All UPC’s are not the same.Our church is fantastic!
It’s been 33 years for me. I’ve always wanted short hair and my bf is fully supportive no matter what I do.
The pastor of our UPCI church said that they consider the American culture to sustain their belief that women should not wear pants. And he said that we should look at the signs on the public restrooms, that how we know who wears what. I thought that the women did not wear pants at all until I went to a PJs night and saw some with sweat pants.
Yeah, interestingly the guys are not required to look to American culture and do the opposite in an effort to avoid following the "styles of this world". They attend conferences dressed to the absolute highest in men's fashion and the latest trending hairstyle. They also have been allowing some of them to wear shorts and play organized sports. Never any leeway for the women though. In regards to the bathroom sign example I read a funny meme that said "It was never a dress, it's a cape". 😉
I pray for all those who had horrible experiences with the UPC.
Hopefully those folks are able to move on in life and find peace beyond their bitterness.
Be 100% content in what you believe...as I am in the UPC 😊
I appreciate that you pray for those who have been abused by the UPC. I also hope you would have the courage to speak up if you saw abuse happening in your own church (very few do).
Jennifer and I both have peace in what we believe. We've placed our faith in the substitutional atonement of Jesus Christ. That's hopefully where your faith is as well (not in the UPCI).
I am 100% content with my current beliefs, but I'll always take whatever prayer I can get! My identity lies in Christ, not an organization.
It's not bitterness it's open wounds.
Bitterness describes the survivors as being robbing them of the good and only left bitter. Which means your statement undermines each intentional step to evolve while being shunned!
To have real complaints and hurts is not conceding to bitterness.
My own mother's response was often a judgment about my feelings labeled bitter, it's a slap in the face.
Please don't assume that it's very hurtful
And when you make the decision to leave, and like you ladies have said you don't fit in with your old family and you don't fit in your "new" world, it can become lonely and unless you can stay strong, the pull is there to go back. Or in my case I remember when life began to happen I began to think that this was happening because I left the UPC and God was punishing me. I had sat under a UPC pastor here in Ontario who when people would leave the church, would encourage the congregation from the pulpit to pray that God would bring about evil on those people in order to bring them back. So it is tough and one needs to be strong..
Isn't it terrible that a pastor would encourage saints to "pray evil" on to people who left your church, scripture says it's the kindness/goodness of God that leads us to repentance. Had that pastor had any love in his heart at all, he could have suggested that people show love and pray that God would pour his kindness on the ones who left. I think many people can identify with your worry that the obstacles of life you faced right after leaving were God's punishment. It's important to remember that Christians (even the ones who remain in these churches) don't live easy, trial free lives. It's not easy to leave and support is important.
My current pastor says things like that over the pulpit. The whole “whatever it takes to bring them back IN. Even if they lose their legs, an arm, or whatever”. It’s starting to get absurd. I’m sick and tired of hearing these scare tactics over the pulpit and even from the congregation.
Same with not knowing how to study. Used to being preached at so harshly.
The UPCI ruined God for me. Glad you were able to still keep your faith after leaving, I couldn’t.
I'm sorry to hear that, but I do understand how that could be the case.
Since leaving the organization was made synonymous with leaving God, I had to deconstruct the whole idea of God and a Holy Book in order to successfully exit the organization.
The apostolic church that I grew up in was so strict and arrogant, they thought that UPC was too “wild”. Our pastor would use UPC as an example of how not to dress lol. So we really did look Amish
Yes, there isn't too big of a leap once you start feeling the UPC look "too worldly" and looking Amish! It's funny, but also a hard way to grow up. I'm sorry that was your experience...and that it was tied (as a must) to being a Christian.
I know of churches like that too. I do attend a UPC church in the Ft. Lauderdale Fl area. Our Pastor is a very unique Pastor I have realized in how he loves people. There are a few Pastor's in our area or a little south that think we are too worldly and warn their saints not to associate with us. We are a fairly large church (800 or so)and have people that are brand new to church of any kind and ones that have been born in this church years as well as their families to everyone in between. Those Pastor's could take a lesson from mine about being a CHRISTLIKE SHEPHERD.
I’m a Youth Pastor at a UPCI church. My sister who was also raised in church has left church, so I definitely have a sense of compassion towards you guys. I’m sure if the church you attended is anything like ours they would be glad to have you in service even if you don’t believe everything. I’m very sorry for the bad experiences you have had. That being said, I do think some people within the UPCI have taken a legalistic approach, but Dr. David K. Bernard deals with the fact that we are not trying to earn our salvation by our works in his book “Practical Holiness A Second Look”. He has a whole chapter on “The Dangers of Legalism”. Earning your salvation is not the purpose of Holiness. Holiness is out of love because we are saved by the grace of God. As far as hair goes here is a more academic representation of the actual UPCI view- which is not “holy magic hair” even though a few ministers have adopted that view. Just because something is tolerated by a district doesn’t mean it’s the official teaching of our movement. ua-cam.com/video/CSTzrFQS_KM/v-deo.html
Thanks for your respectful comment. I typically don't approve videos with links (because I don't have time to screen them...I'm sure you can imagine what some people try to share), but I approved yours because I wanted to respond. I noticed that you drew a comparison between us and your sister who was "raised in church" and also "left church". I never know what people mean by that (having heard so many UPC people speak of those who have left UPC churches as being comparable with having left their faith in Christ). Jennifer and I are both still Christians, hopefully your sister is too.
Unfortunately, not all churches are tolerant of you when they see that you don't adhere to the standards...there is a grace period, but it runs out eventually and you become a target for every nut who "gets a burden" in service. lol It's hard to attend church in that atmosphere. That being said, I do know UPC people, who view the dress standards as personal convictions and view you as a believer even if you don't adhere. I wish there were more who did.
I'm happy to hear that you understand the grace of God, it gives me hope that more UPC people will hear this beautiful truth. I'm aware of the argument for hair (I was born and raised UPC & stayed until I was 26 yrs old)...I address that viewpoint in a 3-part series.
ua-cam.com/play/PLHym7IkAZe9NrqCj8MRw0ALLTrhYJIk8A.html
While I do understand that "HMH" is not the official position of the UPCI, I'm also aware that it's way more prevalant than it should be (and promoted by a few of their top ministers). I guess I feel that a doctrine that is so heretical (and fear inducing) should be squashed by headquarters if the real reason for licensing ministers and an official organization is to maintain accountability.
Considering the top ministers split the entire organization in the 90's by coming up with a mandatory, annual signing of a document (the Westberg Resolution) pledging belief in the articles of faith and that they would preach them...that includes owning a television set, attending "worldly" entertainments and preaching the dress standards... it's hard for me to believe they couldn't easily wipe out this heresy if they really wanted to. You're a young man, but for those of us a little older, the 90's were not the UPC's finest moment. It's been sad and interesting to watch over the last 15-20 years as they've abandoned many of things they so adamently stood on to the disunity of the brethern.
I agree with Deanna, the 90s were a mess for the UPC. That being said, I urge you to investigate a little (not using UPC sponsored materials) the true definition of the word "holiness". There is nothing in the Bible that said our outward appearance makes us "holy".
And, if you are open to that investigation, I would also recommend you to research the origins of the UPCI. I think you would be surprised as to what you would find.
And while some UPC people I attended church with still talk to me, most do not, including the pastor's wife. So personally, that makes me feel very uncomfortable entering the building.
That being said, it's all water under the bridge. God has healed me, with his help and that of a therapist, I am in a great place in my walk with God.
Thank you for taking time to watch the video, God bless.
Responsible Faith My Sister just kind of quit going to church all together when she went to university. I know that phrase could be taken wrongly and I do apologize for that. I know the UPCI is a man made organization and that no one organization could hold the entirety of the revival God has for the church. Every organization is going to have problems- some of them bigger than others. The main thing is that people get to hear the Gospel and how to respond to it in faith. There is plenty of room for disagreements among ministers in the UPCI on things like eschatology, certain applications of biblical principles ect. I admire how much you have wrestled with these issues even if you have arrived at a different understanding of them. To me, I’m just sad no one seemed to be there with good enough answers to your questions. That’s one thing that always gets me, but I know when you have been treated poorly by church people it makes it worse. With some of the stories of “safety pin lady” in this video I wouldn’t want to go to that church. It doesn’t sound welcoming. My Pastor preaches not to mention appearances to anyone who comes to our church. It blesses me to see people on our pew that don’t look Apostolic. That means we are actually engaging our community instead of existing in isolation. My Pastor would be upset if he ever heard of a safety pin lady at our church and would have something to say about that not assisting the Great Commission.
@@joshuapearson9950 A huge problem with the United Pentecostal Church is that they distort the Gospel and create what many term as a three-step plan of salvation. If you do not follow their plan and get water baptized just right, if you do not speak in tongues to prove to everyone that you received God's Spirit, one is considered not saved. That is NOT the Gospel. As to there being plenty of room for ministers in the UPC to disagree, through the years they've made that window smaller and smaller and have forced or kicked out many ministers over the years as they have sought to push people out who have held certain differences.
It's nice to hear that your pastor encourages your church to be kind to newcomers without pressuring them to conform to the image of the UPC. I do have to say, I didn't leave the UPC because I was treated poorly by church people. I left because I studied several of the doctrinal points and didn't find them to be scriptural. While I did experience mistreatment, it wasn't the reason I left. As far as your sister goes, sometimes when we're young we make decisions, but as we age we realize things aren't the way we thought. She may feel her need for faith in Christ in time. God certainly hasn't forgotten her.
Wow this interview is amazing. I felt the same way as Jennifer did
Wow, I really enjoy this video, left the UPC and have to say first that I loved my church so much, that I was practically living there, I sing for almost 12 years, I teach for around 7 years, but I noticed that with years I wasn’t agreeing with some teachings and when I wanted to point at the subject, every body was looking at me like the black sheep, the church started with little people, it grew cause all the time and effort of some of us did , doing cell groups at homes every week, inviting people to our homes when it can be dangerous but we love God so much that we didn’t care, so we work hard for it, my cell group multiply many times , we saw the growth, but when I spoked about my calling everything everything started falling apart, had dreams like 12 years ago about seeing myself preaching, teaching etc., many so called prophets came in church campaigns etc and every time I used to hide and led the new members to go in the front a d received their blessings, but many times was cut up in that they wanted to pray for me, telling me that do not shut my mouth, that God put words on me , to preach to the hurting, etc to make it short , even ones the service was about to end and crying the man of God preaching that day called me from the crowd I felt overwhelm and scared like you don’t have idea , I felt like Esther going to see the king 😅, he said the same thing in front of my pastor, and he prayed for me , and I could feel his pain , he told me to be strong, I never imagine that when I was ready to talk about my calling which I did, it brewed a great storm, I did preach ones and that was it, to get all the eyes on me , pointing at me when someone preach about woman’s to shut their mouth in congregation, that no woman should teach a man etc , they started humiliating my husband saying like why your wife is speaking in public, and at church, that he wasn’t men of the house, for real this was a nightmare, I continue 3 years like that suffering in silence, my cell group that I gave my life to make grow was taken from me, I end up crying so much, hurting so much, and everything that I heard from the altar was like stones thrown at me, I stood up like a soldier, I took a beating spiritually but I was strong , into I breakdown, I sawed my husband suffering, crying at night, couldn’t take it anymore, one day decided to put everything on the table as a minister with the the pastors but was even worse, never taught like a good well behaved Christian will get that mad and disrespectful, so even we continue one more day and again everything that we have spoke thrown in the altar, that was it, is hard to deal with legalisms and man made rules, I used to see ladies from church at supermarket with work out pants and they were so pale when they saw me, people trying to hide that’s not healthy for anyone, even some try to enforce and posting that woman in pants on Facebook will go to hell and then seen the same person that made the post on pants at the store is ridiculous, spit to the sky and will fall in your face 😬, I have Hashimoto , thyroid decease my hair fall off almost completely I have to wear extensions 2 years cause I’m not supposed to have short hair and will take away my privilege to sing in the altar, I was afraid to every body to see my bold scalp 😬, but is so crazy like I see everyone enforcing this rules and their kids you found them in pants, makeup etc , even they said makeup is for woman in prostitution at that times and when it comes to 15 years celebrations or weddings etc everyone with makeup 😅, so is just hypocrisy, and keeps happening, is just like chains that they can’t break from but want to taste was doing the opposite, I’m so glad I’m out , fulfilling my calling, I’m preaching, and we have a beautiful church, still struggling not going to lie , is hard to break from that , but I want a church for the hurting and they need to now that Jesus set you free, but I want to ask a question, do you still doing everything in Jesus name? Love your videos. Thank you so much, God bless you and your family.
Cell group, snak and yak, no pants, platform perfection. 😆
Wow we had a safety pin lady in our church. We even had a package of safety pins in our lady restrooms. 😂 the young women would go into church bathrooms and safety pin each other up. 😣
Haha, "safety pin lady"...I wonder how many churches had one.
@@ResponsibleFaith we’ve got safety pins in the ladies restroom.
Thank God I left the United Pentacostal Church International.
I was trusting in my works and in Jesus. That's no trust at all.
I said it's grace through faith, but I really believed faith plus works equals salvation. I believed that my repenting of sins was contributing to my salvation.
"Do not judge by outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
Great video. The “let your hair down, Ladies” was a part of a couple of retreats that I was at as well. One was led by a southern Missouri pastors wife by the name of Janice Sjostrand, I think. Some of the references are taken from the lady who took her hair down and wiped Jesus’ feet. I remember a woman taking off her leg braces and shouting for healing. I saw her the following year back in the wheelchair. It was probably the beginning of my questions about this whole thing.
I was at that service at well Lori! She preached a while then sang a while, while everyone else was jumping around with their hair flying. I think I was pregnant with my daughter during that time, so about 2002??
Jennifer C. ... yep, probably around 2002.
@@jenniferc.38 That sounds positively hideous.
Where do I find the support groups?
I see another comment where you said you emailed me, I didn't receive anything. Did you send it to deannajonorton@gmail.com? Maybe try resending it, I's be happy to send you that info. 😊
I’ll try again!
Just seeking a list of Facebook support groups♥️
Rewatching Jennifer Brewer video and I too tried to stay invisible while at school. Though my physical appearance wasn't so different than the other boys, I was aware that I was different from the other kids. Rough experience while at the same I believed I was God's chosen in the school. Lol.. If I could go back in time!
very frustrating ..I have a upc friend..been hard reaching him.tried a long time .as Im a born again Christian..
I remember at our old UPCI church they had a pack of razors for any visiting minister or evangelist that would show up with a beard. Strict NO BEARDS rules on the platform and of course that rolled over to the saints and districts as well. Crazy....
I guess Jesus wouldn't have been allowed on their platform? lol
@@ResponsibleFaith One would think. How blind was I back then lol
That’s crazy no one has the right to dictate your life like that
Thank you for this!
It’s true the fear that’s woven in. I’ve been questioning everything that’s taught but every service I attend, seems like the pastor is preaching about our church being the only true church and everywhere else you go will send you to hell. It’s so much pressure that I don’t know what to do.
Yes to the nightmares!
Bible quizzing! The only vacations I had were either camp meetings or Bible quizzing trips. First real vacation I ever went on was my honeymoon 😮
As a current quiz coach, the commitment is intense
This is a common behavior with hair in services. Also I have been to a church where I was met at the door by the safety pin lady bc of my split in my skirt🙄🤦♀️I was a PK & 30 years in it....stories for days.
Thank you for sharing that Amber. I've had so many UPC people contend that it doesn't exist as a practice in any of their churches. It's not true of course, but everyone who shares that they've seen it firsthand, helps to prove that it does.
Not to be unkind, but according to Ruth Reider's book in telling a young woman that because she trimmed her hair and didn't protect her "glory" her husband had an affair etc. Well, what was her reason when her husband had an affair and they are now divorced and she is remarried? Did she not protect her glory? I hope people were kinder to her. While I personally hold certain standards, I would NEVER say something so cruel to someone. I can tell you that if I had to choose between outward appearance and fruits of the spirit, I'll choose fruits of the spirit ALL DAY LONG!! I know several ladies who are amazing ladies who their husbands had an affair etc. and I do not see how the woman can be blamed for the man's CHOICE TO SIN. That is HIS burden to bear, not hers. We are ALL responsible for our choices not other people. Life is not perfect, even serving the Lord as a born againbChristian (I don't mean just Pentecostals), but I wouldn't want to be without him. I think people would do well (me included) to study the fruits of the spirit and see how you match up. We probably will all need to REPENT!
We had singers come to our church once and sold bows and hair products. They weren’t allowed back because they sold things that were colorful. And I have also been to the hair services.
Wow, a church that takes a stand against colorful hair bows. I don't even know what to say to that. It doesn't sound like a healthy place to attend. I also appreciate you sharing that you've been in some of those "hair" services. I've had so many UPC people respond to what I've said about the power in uncut hair teachings by pretending that it's not actually a big thing in the UPCI and that I'm making it up. Interestingly, very few of them will condemn the practice...the way some will lay their hair on people for healing or shake it around in an alter/prayer service for added power to their prayers. While it might not be the general stance of the UPCI, it is way more common than it should be and nobody in leadership has firmly and properly addressed/squashed the practice.
Oh no...I remember Bible quizzing...not a good memory for my son and me...he was bribed into doing it so he could get a skateboard from his step dad...many years of practice...all the siblings were out playing but my son had to be in his room practicing... thankfully I've left the UPC and the abusive marriage
Amen! Be a berean (Acts 17:11)
Stop being spoon fed, this is a vertical relationship with Christ, not one that goes through “the man of God” - that latter is a catholic concept. Royal PRIESTHOOD - connection with God.
I would recommend you look up the Hebrew word halal praise.
I went to the UPCI in Hawaii for about 3.5 yrs 96 to 2000. The doctrine of one God & baptism in the name of Jesus is 100% scriptural. I haven't been back to any UPC since except for a few times but I still uphold the doctrine of salvation.
The trinity is pagan and the doctrine of demons.
If you're experiencing legalism or abuse of some sort then get closer to God. If that means taking a break from attendance then do so.
Love it!
Oneness is the genuine doctrine...but quite legalistic in some sense...
Just wondering if there are big differences among churches. Our church has not taught guilt. It teaches the love and forgiveness bought by the blood of Jesus Christ. If people leave for a time and decide to return they are welcomed. One couple left, the husband was a licensed minister but our church members are still friends with them. Several of us on the ladies planning committee have short hair and pierced ears. This is a UPCI church in Canada. Would that account for the difference?
I really doubt it, it sounds to me like your church is an anomaly and would be considered "worldly" by the rest of the UPCI. I'm happy you have a church that is loving and less dogmatic about some of these things, but it's certainly not common based on all the people who reach out to me privately. Jennifer is from the USA, I am from Atlantic Canada, and we have several friends spread out all over North America who have had very similar experiences to us and grew up hearing the same teachings.
A genuine question to all who have attended and then left the UPCI or similar groups --
If the legalism over clothing, TV, etc were not part of the picture, and only the doctrinal differences existed between the UPCI and mainstream denominations existed, would you still leave? Please give your thoughts. Thanks!
The salvation theology is why we left. The studying of the standards was simply the gateway for us to question everything we were ever taught. If I had found the UPCs version of salvation to be correct, I would have stayed and abided by the standards as I was always taught to obey my pastor.
Like Jennifer, questioning the dress standards and seeing that scripture did not back up the "rules" and sermons I was hearing at church, was the jumping off point for me. I wondered "What else do they have wrong?". At that point nothing was "off limits" and I had to look into it all. I left because of the salvation theology as well. If I had found their version of salvation to be correct, I probably would have left anyway and looked for a church that taught the same salvation doctrine but with less overreach and personal control. The boundary issues were a big problem for me as well.
I just bought her book. Hope I’m not going against God by doing it and allowing Satan to control/guide me. Or, maybe, it will help me in my journey.
I feel sad that you're fearful about simply reading a book from a different viewpoint. There's nothing that says you have to change your mind after reading it, but it might help you gain some perspective on where other people are coming from who leave the UPC and end up believing differently. The UPC weaves a lot of fear into their teachings, and that alone should be a red flag. Perfect love (Jesus) casts out fear because fear has torment. Even David Bernard reads several books by Christians who hold different views than he does. God doesn't turn his back on us simply for having questions. Christ brings peace.
@@ResponsibleFaith and that fear, is real. I guarantee, if I spoke about this to anyone in the “church”, about the fear thing, I’ll bet they’ll say “it’s the devil trying to confuse you or turn you”. Yeah, now, I’m not so sure. Maybe it’s y’all’s viewpoints and condemnation that you beat over our heads every service. Some would even say it’s “fear that’s stopping me from getting the victory”. 🤣; yeah, fear from y’all’s brainwashing techniques. Many scriptures are coming to mind that have taken on “new” meaning for me. Even I have had questions, concerns the last few years about their whole standards. Keep up with these videos.
Thank you! 😊
My family is going through this right now. My son has been hurt tremendously at the hands of those I trusted with his spiritual walk. I was even told if I didn't stop I was dragging my son and myself to hell. Cried for days after that horrible unbiblical comment. Trying to figure out where to go from here. No way can we go back.
I'm so sorry to hear that you're dealing with church conflict. It sounds as though your family may have experienced spiritual abuse. Obviously disagreeing with leadership and standing up for your son will not "drag you and your son to hell". That's a manipulative thing for someone to say. If you're interested in resources you can contact me at deannajonorton@gmail.com
You should not be forced to go to church if you want to go you should have went if you didn't want to go you stay home they shouldn't make you go to church then left you a teenager or not that's all right
I don’t know what upci you all were involved in but it’s not the one I’m in!
Jennifer attended a UPCI church in the US midwest and I attended one in eastern Canada. It's the only UPCI there is.
If you attend a perfect UPCI church, I find it interesting you took the time to watch an hour long video about leaving....
@@jenniferc.38 That is a very disrespectful attitude you have. Pretty uncalled for
@@user-pz5mr3rw1k I find it interesting you know my attitude from a one sentence statement. 🤷♀️
I think you meant UPC church. I attend a phenomenal UPC church with a Pastor who genuinely loves people!!
I did not just left...I went out from that cult...their doctrine of that upc is like a communism system....
But as there false prophets among the people, even so there shall be false teachers among you. Who shall privily bring in damnable heresies, and even denying the Lord God that bought them. And many shall follow their pernicious ways, by way of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
While they promise themselves liberty, they are servants of corruption.
It is sad to see a person deceived by the devil and leave the church, I am troubled that they kept asking "where is this in the Bible?" I went to the church she is talking about and the pastor preached many times on modesty and hair and gave scripture to all points. I will pray for your eyes to be reopened and the truth revealed to you again.
"The Church" in scripture is not the UPCI (I assume you already know this), it's the worldwide body of Christ...a group of people who have placed our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross as the payment for our sins and our subsequent hope of eternal life through the righteousness of Christ. He took our sin on himself, received the punishment for it and in exchange gave us His righteousness. Just because you leave a man made organization does not mean you are no longer a believer. Whether you agree with her view on the dress standards or not is irrelevant, Jennifer is a follower of Jesus Christ and you do NOT have the ability to pluck her out of his hand (John 10:28). Thank goodness!
@@ResponsibleFaith I understand upci is not the only group of people who love Jesus and I am definitely not trying to pluck anyone out of the hand of God. But I also know when someone leaves the church because it does not allow them to sin the way they would like. The Bible has rules on modesty and hair so it's only natural when a person does not want to adhere to those rules that they would accuse the Church of being a cult and ultimately have to escape it so they could follow Christ correctly. I don't want to keep an argument going so I will say goodbye with one last statement, the Bible is not a buffet you cannot pick and choose what you do and do not believe you either believe it 100% or not at all. bless you and I hope you both find your way back to God someday.
You're assuming a lot here Jay. You're assuming that as women we obviously were silly enough to put ourselves through the hellish hateful exit of a UPCI church just so we could cut our hair and wear pants, you're assuming that we didn't carefully study scripture in an effort to understand what it was saying and you're also assuming that what was written in the Bible was not strict enough and therefore God needed your help.
Nowhere in scripture are hair or clothing linked to sin or "holiness" (which the UPC has redefined). You also are not even in agreement with your own organization; as I've heard several of the "scholars" of your group sheepishly admit that hair/clothing is not a heaven/hell issue. Many of them have had to re-frame the standards as a matter of "spiritual maturity" when confronted by someone who studies scripture. Nobody condescends quite like a legalistic Apostolic Pentecostal. Your "concern" for Jennifer and I does not come across as authentic and I highly doubt it was love and care that prompted your comment.
As to the view of the UPC being "cultist", which many of us come to after we leave, it's usually when we reflect on how much unhealthy personal control existed within followed by the wonderful exit experience that brings us to that conclusion. Nasty treatment, confrontational interactions, shunning and being completely cut off from people we love are all common experiences. I've been out for 17 years and still have members of my own family and childhood friends who exclude me and treat me like a leper...all for leaving a church. How's that for fruit of the spirit? You'd think with all that tongue talking you guys do, you could display more fruit of the spirit than that.
I agree with Deanna, I think it's insulting to assume (which if you watch the video, you would KNOW that isn't the case) that those of us who have left, did so all willy nilly without putting in the time and effort to research the very foundation of our upbringing. If you watch the video, it is clearly said, "it is much easier to stay than to leave". No one in their right mind would walk away from everything and everyone they know and love without valid reason. And even if the "minister taught on hair and modesty and gave scripture" it is in my right and also my responsibility to research for myself and not take someone else's word for my salvation.
I also find it interesting that I have been doing these kinds of interviews and writing for over a year, and all of a sudden, people who claim they went to church with me at some point are starting to take notice.
@@bigjay1973 They didn't leave so they could "sin the way they would like." You're describing something as "sin" that isn't sin, and you're ascribing motives to people even though they've told you otherwise (if you, in fact, watched the entire video). One day, should God so choose to move on your heart, you'll see that the "pick and choose" line you used is a strawman argument. These ladies didn't "pick and choose" from the buffet. They simply took what was actually ON the buffet, and put away the things that man added to the menu in crayon over the last 100 or so years.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
About the women wearing the bridges the only thing it says in the Bible that women shouldn't wear men apparel with slacks his man apparel that's in the book of Jeremiah the 10th chapter
If you want another interview I'd have allot of insightful things to say.
We should talk. I enjoy your videos i was raised in the UPC terrible experience. I have a Podcast "The Church Boy." I would love to chat on your site. God bless.
Ladies conferences are weird. Never was in a let your hair down one though.
Omg 😮 I don’t even know you’ll, but our lives in the church is the same way, long skirt, hair pull back, the more you look like that, the more Jesus love you. This is so sad, so judgmental, our little church was the only church God will save, I can’t believe I thought Jesus only loved my church, About two years ago, after being there 40 years, the Lord said tell your husband how you feel about that place, we both felt the same way, but never shared our concern about that place to each other, because if you spoke against it, that’s the devil in you. We gone and we are do excited God got us from that place, and by the way, we never visit other churches, because all the other churches is hell bound, so after 40 years we stayed at one location. But God knows the plans He have for us. We so glad to be gone. My daughter told me one day. Mom everybody got to die, but everybody don’t live. I felt so embarrassed your child knows you don’t even have a real life, my whole family left that place and now instead of religion, we have Relationship with God. This is so sad how ppl will manipulate your whole life with a control spirit nothing but witch craft. I’m a minister I remember I was about to pray for a sister in the church, and my sleeves wasn’t long enough, so one of the evangelist came to me and said I don’t want you to pray today, and I ask her, why? she said your sleeves wasn’t long enough. My family is in a detox stage, and we are trying to live a balance life. We thought everything was spiritual. Sad sad sad 😞 detoxing is a must after you leave a place like that
God bless you on your journey!
I am thankful that i spent my teens and twenties in the UPCI. I never felt like i gave up anything. I dont feel cheated. It is weird to hear females feeling a strong desire to wear pants. I have never felt a desire to wear dresses or to wear shorts in public. I have never felt cheated by the idea of not going to a secular college. I have never drank alcohol or taken street drugs and i count that a blessing and not something i gave up. I have never gotten a tattoo and i count it a blessing and not something i gave up. Perhaps there are other things i am coveting and envious of, however i have never blamed the UPCI for being the source of envy and covetousness.
That in kjv and the nk jv bibles
The magical hair hahahahah Jesus nooooo
UPC prepares you and helps you set yourself apart from the world I was raised the same way as yall and I'm still in it bcuz it's the truth and everything that upc teaches if STRAIGHT OUT THE BIBLE ..
The Holy Spirit is our guide, not a flawed man made organization that has undergone so many shifts and splits over it's 75 ish years in existence that it would be unrecognizable to the forefathers of the movement.
I also can't help but point out (as a man) how much easier it is for you to remain in the "holiness movement" than it is for a woman. I disagree with your statement that everything the UPC teaches is straight out of the Bible! I've looked, it's not....that's why the rules keep changing and the goalposts keep moving (usually to accommodate someone with clout) Beards were a no-no...until recently when they came in style and some of the young men wanted them. If it's not "wrong" now, it wasn't wrong 20 years ago either! I see shorts on their boys now and they are allowed to play sports and attend "worldly amusements", did God change His mind? Speaking of "worldly amusements", do you know how many ministers go on cruises? That's permissible now too. It used to be "NO TV"S OR MOVIES", now they all watch Netflix on their smartphones and computers. Were they right to crush our family members and drive young people away over foolish things years ago...but now that their own sons/grandsons want to grow beards it's not worth risking the loss of them over something that's not Biblical? You'll have to pardon me if I have no interest in putting people like that in charge of my life. And that's without me even touching on the works-based salvation they teach. I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you on this.
@@ResponsibleFaith boom!
Ladarion Neal AMEN brother!!! I’ve been in for almost 9 years now I’m so thankful. Get your mind focused on Jesus and His Word instead of religion and traditions. People can let us down but Jesus never does. UPC and UPCI teach truth-straight up!! Ain’t nobody got time to be playing patty cake with Jesus. If you want the real deal go to UPC, if you want a social club to make you feel bad shout all you’re choices than maybe it’s not for you. If you want something real you are not going to find it anywhere else! I know bc I searched!
Not lol . It makes you judge people for not following standards set by man
@@T-storm1 - Keep looking lol .
Paints you have a point
Hello lady, I have listened to you quite a bit, and I am of the persuasion that you left the United Pentecost because of their legalism. As an African, I have been around many denominations, I have experienced the practical power of God and also the powers of darkness in Africa before coming here. I mean real! Many denominations play with God here, and are powerless. It is true that the UPCI is saddled with legalism and many of their ministers redirected focus on appearance more than God Himself. However, the doctrine of inner and outer holiness, water and Holy Spirit baptism can never be scorned upon by God. You walk the best way in Christ in spirit, appearance and conversation and discard the legalism. Be very careful of what you say about the doctrine and what you write about. Lest you will be a culprit to be sacrificed by Abaddon. I cannot say more.
So you just want a quote this verse instead of living it.
What verse are you referring to?
The book of Jeremiah the 10th chapter talks about the cutting of the women's hair it is their Glory
You can’t just say I accept Jesus as my personal savior and you’re saved, the infilling of the Holy Ghost comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues as the spirit Gives utterance ❤️
I respectfully disagree, based on the following verses:
Romans 10:9-11
John 3:16,17
Acts 2:21
Acts 16:30-33
Romans 1:16
John 3:36
John 5:24
1 John 5:13
Ephesians 1:13
John 11:25, 26
@@jenniferc.38 Roman’s 10:9-11 was always taught as the “Roman road to salvation”….is how I remember it. But then, the scripture “study to show thyself approved” is another to NOW I’m seeing it’s to almost cipher through the BS apostolic/Pentecostal folks have been taught. I mean, I could be wrong. Some of the other scriptures could be labeled “easy believing”, too. If you just say, “hey, I believe in Jesus” but continue to lie, cheat, steal, cus, have an adulterous life, I could on. That, to me, don’t mean jack squat. If there’s no outward change or even inward change, you’re lying to yourself. Watching these videos is causing 2nd thoughts of all I’ve been taught for 29 years since I came in at 20 yo. I feel betrayed, lied to, manipulated, guilt tripped, shamed, etc. Any support is appreciated: HELP!.
I just dont get the "legalism" complaint against the UPCI. I have been in multiple UPCI churches in 45 years and i haven't seen what they are talking about. My experiences have been no place near what their experiences have been. I wish these ladies could have gone to the UPCI churches that i did and could have talked with me regarding their issues.
You are the rotten fruit of the UPC and everyone of your comments proves that. Dude get a life already you comment on all her videos multiple comments and we get it you are super holy because of the UPC and your standards.
There is no magic in hair, however it is irrefutable that there is power in self-restraint and obedience. Samson did not have power because of his hair. Samson had power because of his obedience. I personally know females, that did not grow up UPCI, who began having power in prayer once they began honoring holiness standards like not cutting hair. I have seen astounding miracles happen because of their prayers.
I dont understand the complaints some people have about a specific church. I have always viewed the church as a place of refuge and healing. I have been attending UPCI churches for over 45 years, and i can not relate to the idea of 'legalism'.
I have never felt rapture fear. I have never felt judged. I imagine drama and gossip exists wherever people are, but i have never been privy to either. I also never notice drama or gossip at the workplace. I think certain types of people are sensitive to those things and find them when they look for them.
If you 2 really want to find truth, do what Yeshua did. He was not a Christian, he was a Jew that practiced Judaism. You should become members of a Messianic Jewish Congregation if you really want to walk the walk.
Woman needs to hat along hair
Hat long hair?