Leaving the UPCI: Heather and Sterling's Story
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Contact email: deannajonorton@gmail.com
(This email is provided for the purpose of connecting with and supporting people, not for pointless arguments)
Heather's Blog and UA-cam Channel:
trekkingpeaksa...
/ @hhammett1
Spiritual Abuse Articles by Sterling:
www.spiritualab...
www.spiritualab...
This is a Series of Articles relating to the UPCI and cases of Sexual Abuse:
blogs.spiritual...
I’m simply physically crying to hear this!! Proverbs 18:19
19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.
It kills me to hear that you were brought to question your faith because of men.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
Stick close to God. 🤗
I spent many years in oneness pentecostal churches, and I can attest to the fact that some of these people are the prideful, self-righteous, judgmental people you will ever encounter, and don't even seem to realize that their pride and self-righteousness is sinful. And that's doesn't even touch on all of the doctrinal errors.
It certainly can be a very toxic place to fellowship.
Thank you for always having people on your channel sharing their stories! These things happen at a lot of churches. Abuse and trauma is real! It really helps to hear other’s stories ❤️❤️
I’m in that place right now. I left 15 years ago and my husband and family are still there...and let me say, it is TRULY the GRACE of God we’re still together. I’m seen as in disobedience, rebellion (as in witchcraft) and not in the truth, therefore, in many eyes, not saved. They won’t say it, “because they can’t judge.” But truly, if you tell them you don’t believe their doctrine, they would say you’re not saved. Would you please pray for the blinders to be taken off of their eyes? On a side note, and not sure it matters, but I’ve been in pursuit of the Lord and attending a non-denominational church that teaches the Word verse by verse and I am AMAZED. God is so faithful to me by bringing me out; my prayer is that He draws them out through His Word and by His Spirit. Would you please pray for them if the Lord lays them on you heart? I would so appreciate that. Blessings to you DeannaJo. I’m so grateful for your ministry, because even 15 years later, it’s been difficult.🙏🏻
I'm sorry to hear that @Nadine, I can imagine it must be a difficult thing to deal with long term. I certainly will pray for your husband and family. Blessings to you as well. ❤
Making people sign a contract into a pastor is absurd! When a contract was implemented in our UPC church, it sent us on a journey of finding answers to many questions and looking into the word like never before! What we found was the cross and grace and we left the UPC. ♥️
I agree! Contracts and official church memberships are not biblical and can be quite controlling/damaging and even legally binding in some cases. Not to mention the extremes taken in many of these "contracts". I'm glad you've found the cross and grace! ❤️
The first covid death in Oklahoma was a upc minister, yall.
Great video! Ditto, here. Been out for 30 years and it still colors my life at times without me even realizing it.
God bless you folks!
I am so grateful I came across this video, it was extremely helpful. It is shocking how sterling and I have such a similar story. Feels like such a relief to know I am not alone than you Sterling and Heather!
I enjoyed listening to your personal story of leaving the upc . My family has a Pentecostal back ground . I was baptized in a Pentecostal church at the age of 13 while visiting relatives in another state . Later in life , after I married I asked my husband to please let’s start to church with our children. However I soon found out as an adult that I didn’t believe as the church did . It was also a fight to get my husband to continue going . He called it right when he said Honey don’t you see that that so called religion is like a cult . I disagree for a few months . Then I also left and never went back . We tried many churches along the way . They were good but when we moved south we ended up good ole southern Baptist. We love God and each other . The main thing I could pass on to each of you is simply develop a personal relationship with God . We can speak or pray to him in Jesus name anytime and anywhere. Being a Baptist or any other named religion won’t save you . But you faith will . Your personal relationship with the Lord will . My sister has been Pentecostal for over 37 years . But we have made a pact never to compare our differences in christian believes . Respect one another’s right to choose for themselves. However she forgets that I know she is taught to believe that all that are not Pentecostal are hell bound 😂 As long as she doesn’t say it out loud we will be fine . If she ever does, I will simply in jest tell her that I will be in heaven with her but on separate clouds 😜 God honesty only asks us to do two things ( Love one another as he loves us , and to always forgive those that have wronged us ) It truly as simple as that . There are the 10 comments to try to follow. I think we do our best to do that . But we all sin on a daily basis . And if we want forgiveness, then we must have a forgiving heart . When my sister visits me , I will take her to my church and when I go there I will attend her church. But personally when I go to her Pentecostal church and they say pray , I want to put my hands over my ears because they are all praying really loud and to me it sounds like a bunch of geese 😊 As a visitor I can see the domination that the preacher has on the people. My sister won’t make a move unless she clears it with the preacher. The preachers opinion was above her husband’s at all times. That’s why her husband quit going . He has past now . And she says Jesus is her husband now . But she acts like the preacher is . She even runs her finances by the preacher 😳 yeah she’s hooked there . I will just pray for her and all of the rest of us. One day I want to meet my maker face to face . That’s my number one goal . Blessings to all ! ♥️
"A bunch of geese". Haha! Yes, Pentecostals can get pretty loud! I don't like all the noise either. I guess different things work for different people (some people love it). I'm glad you were able to retain your relationship with your sister. I'm sorry her pastor is so domineering. Hopefully some day she will see how unhealthy that is and at least break free from that (even if she remains UPC). Blessings to you as well! ❤
How to leave the U.PC.I.: get quiet, open a 'STUDY BIBLE' & start reading daily for 10-15 min.; stop volunteering; stop attending midweek services, incremental leaving over time; talk to the lover of your soul about all your concerns. In all your action let Him know about them & He will guide you. Pr. 3:6; get involved with an enjoyment group to develop new friends. Keep watching Deanna Jo's channel!
It's sad that in some of the UPCI churches, that some of the people act like they are in high school (the adults).
Thank you so much for your video. I just left the Pentecostal church and this support means a lot!!!!
I am so appreciative of this channel and this video in particular. I grew up in the PAW and identify with a lot of things that were said in this video. After being gone 10 years I am still in therapy building my self confidence and trust in myself and my own instincts. Not to mention the countless other issues I have as a result of growing up in what is essentially a cult. Thank you for building this channel. It has helped me tremendously.
People in my old UPC church blamed my divorce on the fact that we left...forget the fact that my ex husband was a sex addict and cheated repeatedly on me.
So sad the things that are said after you leave. Sorry you had to deal with that junk. My wife left me when i left the church and ultimately divorced me in the process. There are so many scars left from that church its unreal.
I'm so sorry to hear that Susie. Sadly, some of them look for any excuse to point fingers after you leave as proof that they are right and God is only with them. I'm also sorry for the brokeness and abuse you suffered within your marriage. I can relate to some of it.
Just looking at the UPC from the outside (I was pentecostal but not UCP), it seems the men can do no wrong and the women can do no right. Just an observation.
I had been in my first UPC for about six months and my hair was down to my waist so I trimmed about half an inch off of it. This lady in the church went off on me so I spit back how come I have been here 6 months and my hair is down my back and 90% of your women's hair is only to their shoulders because the burn their hair off with perms and have bangs because the spray hair spray on their bangs and burn them off with curling irons. I told her sorry but it is all the same in Gods eyes. If one is wrong so is the other. God sees what you are doing to your hair, if he cares about me trimming my hair, he sees and cares about you all burning your hair. Do not think you are hiding this from visitors or new saints it is obvious what you all are doing. She was so shocked she had nothing else to say to me. The next service the Pastor preached against burning your hair off,lol. I thought that was funny, took a sinner to call them out.
Haha, that's funny @Tammy Burgess. I do know that a lot of those little old ladies with the weird looking "up-do's" only have hair that hits their shoulders as well. I mean you and I both know there's nothing wrong with that, but it is irritating when they're hard on people who don't hide it.
Great interview ! They seem like a wonderful couple . I'm glad they broke free of the UPC . They made a lot of excellent points in the interview . ❤️👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Another comment : I left my UPC church in late February of this year . I've been unhappy for a long time and have been struggling with different things . But I was also unhappy in the church I was going to . They are decent people , but they're also distant . As time has gone on , I've started to question more things and have begun to find certain things about this organization / church to be annoying . For a long time I've wanted to move to a different state and have been seriously thinking about it over the past two years . I've talked to a close church friend about this often . Sometime before I left the church , I mentioned to the pastor that I would like to move to a different place . At first he smiled and said " pray about it ." But then , as he knew I was beginning to question more things and really was unhappy where I was at , his attitude seemed to change . During a meeting I had with him and a church friend he said " you don't want to get out of God's will ."
Ok , true enough , you don't want to get out of the will of God . But isn't it amazing how anytime an individual wants to leave a particular church or move to a different location that person is usually said (or thought) to be " out of God's will " ?
I've noticed this over the years and also by listening to others . It kind of makes me mad . Every person has a right to some kind of happiness or to do what they think is best for themselves . I believe God leads us where He wants us , but the UPC makes Him look like some kind of tyrant . If you make the wrong move (according to how they portray Him) , He will get you or you're life will be totally ruined .
Yes it's like your stranded at that place until the pastor lets you go. They don't care for personal autonomy
@@ws775 I agree and well said .
It's so true, this tactic is commonly used by controlling pastors who don't know their place or understand healthy boundaries. It's a shame people allow it. It's also interesting that "God's will" always looks exactly like the pastor's will in these situations.
This is how I’m being treated. And, to top it off, if ANY visiting preacher comes and might preach on a particular subject matter, it’ll cause someone to think “oh, I guess this is for ME, ya know. The whole “this message is for you, too. God’s trying to tell you something and you’re not listening. If you leave, you’re gonna go to hell”. So, after I’ve prayed/fasted, you’re gonna tell me I don’t know my own mind?
Thank you so much Heather for sharing your story I can identify 💯 with your story. I felt like you were sharing my own story. ❤️
Two points; 1) I thought we were in extreme churches because we had to sign CONTRACTS but now I see I was wrong 2) the couple mentioned how the "Pastor" became the "father"...we had this happen to us several times and I always thought it was super creepy!
My husband and I went to a recommended Pentecostal counselor from our previous Pastor. He said we needed to talk to her. We went to see her and it was the worst decision of our lives to meet with her. I left her office worse off then when I arrived. And it caused more problems and damage to our relationship. I to the Pastor I would never ever go to her office ever again. I told him it did more damage than helped. He said, "it will either heal you or kill you!" Well, it nearly killed us! The pastor stopped pressing me about this issue after that!
Yikes.
Thank you for sharing. This hits home in so many ways.
It is sad and heartbreaking when I learn that someone no longer identifies as being a Christian because of the disgusting treatment that they recieved in a church. From going all out for Jesus, however misguided, to not calling themselves Christian means that they have been really hurt by the ones representing Jesus, who calls us to lay our burdens at HIS feet so that He can take care of us. I pray for the dear brother that not long from now he can consider himself a Christian again. I know from experience the damage that the UPC can cause. How they can disrupt spmeone's walk with Jesus, so I pray that this lovely couple keep a hold of, even the ehm of Jesus' garment, and receive HIS love. Thank you so much for Responsible Faith. It is a comfort to know that it was not rebellion that lead me away from the UPC. Stay safe and continue the work that Jesus has called you to.
@junkmailboxstuff2 The UPC ruined my life but not my love for Jesus. I believe that it is only because of Jesus that I am alive. I have been in and out of a dark pit for over thirty years because of my experience in the UPC. There are some nice and sincere people in the UPC who have been able not to be affected by the misguided leadership.
It's not "sad" if someone is no longer a christian. They can still be good people and live loving, fulfilling lives. The attitude that you're exhibiting is still condescending in my opinion, almost like because they don't think like you they're no longer whole.
I can understand your reaction, but I don't think the commenter was implying that Heather and Sterling are not good people or that they don't have love and fulfillment in their lives. Obviously they are. I'm guessing the sadness expressed comes from truly believing Christianity to be true and watching churches devour and run people off. Most people probably believe they're following the right path or they wouldn't follow it. I guess it only stands to reason many of them hope others will follow it as well.
@@ResponsibleFaith Thank you for taking the time to comment in response to my post. I understood what the commenter was saying. Nonetheless, I still believe it's problematic when people feel like others need to follow their way of life. I'm not a christian, but I don't feel like others should stop being christian because I'm not. I am friends with people who are christian, and I'm totally fine with them just the way they are. But often I don't get that same level of respect because they feel like they need to try and convert me. It implies that one way of life is better than the other. Why not just respect each person's path without feeling the need to win them to your side? Let them have their own thoughts and opinions. I hope I don't sound harsh because I'm not trying to be. It just bothers me because it's the story of my life...lol!
I do understand that, and you don't sound harsh at all. I'm a Christian and I find Christians condescending towards me over things I don't view things exactly the same as them. lol My comments section is crazy! I guess evangelism will always be part of Christianity because of certain scriptures that encourage it and the fact that scripture points to Jesus being the only way to God. Unfortunately, it does lead to a lot of Christians being aggressive, and self righteous and turning people off toward them personally as well as Christianity as a whole. I don't know why they behave that way. I've never been comfortable confronting people (it feels awkward & abrasive) so I just live my faith and love and respect others...and if they bring it up, then I'll talk about it. That's probably one of the reasons I enjoy having this channel. If someone wants to hear what I have to say, they can choose to listen (and then do what they want with it).
It makes me SO sad to hear these stories. I was welcomed into UPC with open arms as I was. And let me tell you I was a hot mess. They did not care at all. They loved me. In a way I had never been loved. Very small church so idk if that is the difference but this is horrible.
I'm glad you were loved and welcomed and that your experience has been a good one. I've always found UPC churches to be VERY welcoming. The problem arises if you disagree or try to leave.
@@ResponsibleFaith You should never discourage someone who feels they have found peace for their life even if it comes about. That is no different than sowing discord.
Every message I've ever listened to from Jack Cunningham is basically how everyone in the pews has a lack of TRUE devotion and how they're lacking in power. Every message also has a line similar to: "You can't be in line with God if you're out of line with your Man of God."
Thank you for sharing your stories! I am sorry for all you had to go through, both the abusive childhood, and the abusive church experiences. My former abusive church wasn't UPC, but a Pentecostal Holiness Independent church and they too threw out the term "whore" quite a bit describing women who didn't follow their fashion standards. I have been out since 2002. It is hard to hear that these practices are still going on in the name of Jesus.
I was affiliated with upc/paw. I had some very hurtful times but also learned valuable things , especially for ministry. Left with blessing and by God's Soverign hand found myself as a pastor of another denomination by special appt of that denominations overseer. Later seminary. I remain a spirit filled, (acts 2) exp which I still preach. I do NOT hold to their holiness dress standard, tho' I do dress modestly. I do Not condemn others. I rightly Divide The Word of Truth and that is what I preach, teach and live. I hold NO Ill feelings (unforgiveness) toward any of them and in fact still have many friends that are upc/paw. That said, many church's of that demonination are very different from when I was affiliated with them.
Just started watching but Oh my goodness my family lives in Milton..never met anyone else from there.
I recall during a service at Cunninghams church, Cunningham sitting in a chair in front of the church and young men in the church came and threw themselves on their knees in front of him and he would lay hands on them. I found it incredibly bizarre and uncomfortable.
Cunningham..what did the Pastor look like?
was this Jack Cunningham?
We had a very controlling, bishop, recently get released/replaced, b/c he would go around trying to squelch anyone discussing politics, especially at church camp, if they didn't agree with his. He alienated 95% of the congregation, & tried pre-empting me from participating in Sunday School lesson discussion, which is a big no-no.
I love your channel. I was raised upci. Both sides of my family several generations. Im in a pretty normal church, but i am telling you, some of the other churches that my sis in law and brother came out of. I wont put up with their BS. I been there and saw it. Some people comment on here negatively, They have no Idea! I am so glad this channel is here. Because of the abuse my sis in law went through, she has no desire to know any of the people in our church. I follow the magic hair and skirt because my mom is old time upci. I care for her because she is 81, but I can rock a bob hair style lmbo!😅 my sis in law comes only to worship. Me too. I am very introverted so I try not to have too many friends, but some of them want to be my friend. I refused to be abused like other churches abuse their people. I go there to worship only. It is a lax church. It was where JT pugh was the preacher. I love it for thier way of being relaxed on dress. Just know that all those preachers take an oath to preach standards. It was a few old men that got together many years ago and came up with rules for hair and dress and sadley it became a doctrine to be saved. I will not be fooled. That is stupid.
I was told if I got remarried I was lost and that God may not forgive me because it was wrong for me to get remarried. My parents brought me to a UPCI church from birth till adulthood. I was told that if I leave the church and my parents go to hell it's on me. The pastor bashed other ministers that he never met. He bashed me and my family to other pastors ruining my reputation. When I see them out in public they won't even talk to me
I'm so sorry you were/are treated that way. Nothing about that showcases the love of God or the fruit of the Spirit. The things you were told are not true.
Miss Heather you are the most adorable, sweet, sweet person, my heart went out to you when you said you couldn't do anything right. I was in a hard core Apostolic Pentecostal Oneness church and I remember that feeling so well. You never let anyone make you feel like that. That was abuse. My story is similar to yours. Sending ❤
Congratulations for leaving such a horrible environment. You will get through it.... I too have said I wished I never had this UPC background...
Thanks for sharing this story. Quite an experience.
Contracts for representing a church, or any organization, should be mandatory. An insurance agent should never insure any group that doesn't require a behavioral contract.
I've lost a lot of friends and community since I left the WPF church. I still have some friends in the Apostolic church, that do talk to me on Facebook sometimes, but sadly, my mom is still with the WPF and doesn't talk to me. So its been a bit hard especially during this covid thing. I still believe in Jesus and walk with him daily. I'm not part of any church group at the moment and am having a difficult time finding a church and making a connection with one. I'm seeking the Lord on this.
I'm sorry to hear about what you've been through (especially with your mom not talking to you). That must be so hard for you. It's ok to take a break and heal a bit before jumping into another church. You're wise to seek the Lord. If you need some support as you wade through this, there are resources and private support groups on Facebook I could recommend. If you're interested feel free to email me for details @ deannajonorton@gmail.com.
I never had contracts, etc. I had a pastor who I believe was an exception to the rule, tho he absolutely was a true man of God, lived and preached truth (not denomination guidelines.
I'm glad to hear you had a good UPC pastor. I know a few sincere ones as well.
All I can say this time is WOW! 😭🙄👀
I’m not even all the way out yet because I know it will destroy my relationship with my sister. But like many others I wish I was never a part of this belief system as she mentioned.
I'm so sorry to hear that Denise...I know a lot of people deal with the very real fear that when they do finally leave they will lose friends and family. It's so sad that things are like this.
This is the most disturbing testimony ever. I have never heard of people who are "christians" treat people like this. I never met people who have been through so much religious abuse.
It is disturbing to realise how much of this goes on in churches. Sadly, I hear from people all the time who have suffered spiritual abuse.
Spend some time in prayer, thanking God everyday, ask God to humble you and show you His ways and ask God for His wisdom and love.
Let God be true and every man a liar
We had such similar experiences as we went through so many mind altering experiences. We lived in same areas in Florida as they grew up and it was so mind altering! I wonder if many will ever overcome it. I had similar experience as this sweet lady and her experiences. 😥
I'm so sorry to hear that! I hope you're doing well now. ❤
@@ResponsibleFaith i am really just dealing with it slowly. My health issues are getting worse but my main comfort is knowing God is always with me and I am working on forgiving those that damaged my mind and shunned me in that organization.
Awe, I'm so sorry to hear that your health is getting worse. Hopefully things will turn around for you. I'll be praying for you.
If your skirt is to the ground, how can they tell if You're wearing panty hose? Do they make you lift your skirt, to prove it, like Pan Am Flight attendants, used to get patted, to make sure they were wearing a girdle, as they had to weigh in, before each flight? Throwing up at the alter? Contracts? Unreal! They hate people moving away, b/c they lose part of their paying flock. Titus 1 preaches against paid clergy.
Here's something scary: my former (UPCI) pastor's wife got a degree in social work and started working in a center right before I left.
Hopefully she sets her beliefs aside and does her job objectively.
I would like to ask if they experienced anything that was of some help to them?
Never heard of having to “sign contracts”. A “spiritual father” is one of heard of. In my current situation, I’ve been advised not to discuss spiritual matters with my “unsaved/non-believing” husband. I need to go to pastor about things. My family has been separated since October 2020(husband ended up in prison because of a lie). We lost everything. I had to move in with my mom. Since my husband has been out, he’s had to go back out over the road driving trucks. We hardly ever see him. Our marriage has suffered and so has our 5 yo son. It’s harder on him than me. Several people, including the pastor, have said it’s best if I stay here, in AZ, and my husband go to GA. So, are y’all serious about splitting up a family just because my husband isn’t in “the church”? What a crock. It’s a scare tactic and I cannot believe it’s being used on me. 🤣🤣🤣….the current church I attend doesn’t believe in internet(unless work related ONLY when it’s at the office), social media, tv(which is a norm), and definitely NOT a smartphone. Well, they don’t know I’ve still got my smartphone. I don’t “advertise” it. They can call it a “hidden sun”, but whatever. I guess they would be appalled with these videos. Boy, if they only knew what I’ve been seeing/hearing. Guess that’s why they preach/teach against internet. Cause if they had it in their homes, more things like these videos would be seen. And, they can’t have that. They also don’t agree with “continuing education”. Especially for the girls. There’s about 8/9 businesses in the church. Those are the businesses all the men/girls/ladies work for. Once the women start having babies, they quit and stay home. Every video I’ve seen so far has hit some nerve in me. I feel LIED to for the 1st time since I’ve gotten the Holy Ghost at 20(I’m now 49).
I asked a out Yeshua. I haven't yet asked about why some parents cut their girls' hair.
Is the pastor, Mr. Cunningham, the one in Chesapeake, VA, if you can say?
Yes, it was Mr. Cunningham.
@@ResponsibleFaith ok. thank you
It is ridiculous...just move on...there are many self righteous...legalistic people who judge others who are less holier than they are...and it can be quite hurting...
Omg I cant believe she walked up to u and called u a whore. 💔 God bless yall thank u for your bravery in coming forward with ur story❤
I have seen UPCI churches put families back together and keep marriages from falling apart. I do understand that victims are victims regardless of which church they attend. I have never felt imasculated in a UPCI church.
I really am sorry you had this experience at church. I hope you go to another church when you got older. So very sad. I love you and hope you really meet Jesus .
The key to a victorious life is never about self anyway...it is about Him...He knows all things even before we blew it...He already knows...and that is the reason for the cross...
Ours would say he was joking too to cover up trying to break families up.
Wonder if you've ever thought about interviewing ministers who have left the Apostolic movement. Steve Pixler has a channel where he talks a lot about how he left the movement. I just think it would make for interesting conversations.
I have interviewed The Henry's (ex pastors/missionaries), as well as Scot Loyd (ex evangelist). I have a couple of others I hope to talk with eventually.
The Israelities of the OT have it better if that be the case in terms of legalism...at least their sins are covered for a whole year due to the sacrifice of the blood of the lambs...but for those who are enslaved by legalism...it seems that repentance and confession becomes a daily affair...however i must add something...the fact is...their doctrine on Oneness is authetic and basically the truth compared to the trinity doctrine...my believe is tongues are not the only gifts of the Holy Ghost...Acts 2:38 states the gift...but it did not specifically state it must be the gift of tongues...there are other gifts too like healing...preaching and also couselling etc...so are these not evident enough for a christian to be a true believer...?
When I went I always found that when I was prayed up in the holy ghost things were much better. You can find fault no matter where you go.
"Finding fault" and experiencing damaging teachings are two totally different things. There are times when there are issues that need to be addressed (not just prayed about). If no resolution can be found, the healthiest thing to do is remove yourself from the situation. Plenty of people do this, even those who are "prayed up in the holy ghost".
If theirs an issue that can't be resolved then ya that's A problem. However that's when you stay at the alter till the problem is resolved. Theirs nothing God can't fix. Kinda sounds like excuses being made for not wanting to be there. If that's the case then by all means go.
@@angiereno9042 GOD did fix it, he pulled us out of the legalism and dogmatic theology!
@@angiereno9042 They've got another gospel.
OSAS is the gospel message.
Saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone for salvation.
You need to check out Renee Roland on UA-cam, it really is all about Jesus.
Salvation is absolutely free.
Rewards are worked for.
Ours would say same!
Is the young lady talking about Robert Mitchell from Houston, Tx.? If so his son and I were very good friends. But I never knew anything about his dad like that. His son and I actually became friends when we were in public school. We showed up at the same private school together the first year it opened and we freaked out because I didn't know he was Pentecostal and he didn't know I was Pentecostal 😆
It's really surprising for me to hear all that about the UPCI organization. I've been going to a UPCI church for 7 years, I have never seen anything like that. I am a black woman so the not-cutting hair does not apply to me. I straight my hair when I want to and comb my very kinky hair when I feel like it. I was baptized in a Trinitarian church and had never spoken in tongues. I don't believe that I have to. I don't wear pants but I put pants on my daughters. some ladies would let me know where I can buy skirt for my girls, then I would just say thank you. I sing in the Choir and take part in different activities. I have never had any problem and nobody has never said anything to me.
I'm shocked (but pleased) to hear that you attend a UPCI church and are involved in choir and other activities while cutting your hair, wearing pants on your girls and not being "baptized in Jesus name". I'm also surprised they're not pressuring you to be re-baptized or to speak in tongues. I would actually think that most current UPC people who might read this would be surprised by this as well. I'm happy to hear that you've found such an accepting UPCI church. I don't think that is the norm.
@@ResponsibleFaith Yeah. Somebody else told me that. I must believe that it is exceptional. Some ladies talked to me about the re-baptism, and brought the passage where some believers got re-baptized in the Bible, but I reminded them that those people were not Baptized in the Name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit since Jesus had not said it yet. They just told me that that was a good point. And that was it.
That's awesome! It sounds like you're firm in your faith and have an understanding of scripture. It also sounds like the people at your church respect your boundaries. ❤ A healthy fellowship of believers is wonderful when you find it.
I refuse to believe that you are actively involved in a local United Pentecostal Church without even being saved.
I was forced in mental health organization for counseling,I was attending Baptist church with a extension of Marriage made in hell going on 13 years ,Let me say ,I will seat my self beside a priest before I would listen to a Kennebec behavioral health psychiatric nurse Any day time of the week , If I am bless by God to be apart of a congregation of Any Pentecostal believing Church on Three days a week to learn , Study , Worship, Forgiveness feel forgiven, My Money in the churches account , why are You leaving a background of holiness , surrendering it to Evilness ,when you own the foundation?😭
Seek PROFESSIONAL help please
My mother and I went door knocking every Saturday morning when I was a little girl.
Just remember,The Doctrinal Truth of what the Apostles taught water baptism in the Name of Jesus and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking with unknown tongue is still the plan of salvation.i left UPC but I believe and teach the Apostolic Doctrine.without outward standards,To dress modestly.. covering IT up,not drawing attention to your self.
The only "plan of salvation" was Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on the cross.
@@ResponsibleFaith do you believe the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation and the book of Acts doctrine? Just asking. No judgement
Some folks need to learn the difference between Descriptive and Prescriptive in the Bible.
Sometimes the Bible tells us what happened in a particular instance (Descriptive). But it isn't telling us to go do that thing.
At other times we are actually urged to do something (Prescriptive).
It's interesting to see religious groups pick and choose what they will obey and what they will ignore. And they often mix up the descriptions (history for learning) and the prescriptions (things we should do).
@@cathygrant1823 Pentecost did not finish the work of our salvation , the cross of Jesus did.
" It is Finished" was shouted from the cross , not Pentecost
@@cathygrant1823 Jesus IS the plan of salivation. If I'm trusting in anything or anyone else to save me, I make that " thing " my Savior. I choose to trust Jesus to save me , He is my one and only Savior !
I was raised ultra-religious no child should be taught religion until they are an adult and they can make their own decisions our brains are too young are still developing when we are at that little just think to yourself teaching children about hell is absolute child abuse I know I saw many kids with psychiatric problems because of religion
So biblical scriptures are questionable? Apparently that was one of those churches that had no proper teachings and didn’t know how to love people in truth. Praying you do still read the Bible with an open heart and mind. Speaking of hair, sometimes i wonder if maybe some of the ladies do cut their hair the way they put them up that it looks like a boys haircut.
Key word. UPC is not a religion
True, it's a 77 yr old ministerial organization.
Except for the pre-existence of Jesus the oneness doctrine and the trinity doctrine are saying the same thing...the trinity heresy teaches one God who manifests himself as three equal persons, just as the oneness doctrine teaches
I heard woman's hair brought up a few times here and how it was taught that it was never to be cut/trimmed. All of this comes from 1Cor.11, as we know, and we can debate all day about what Long Hair is, but its never explained why did Paul teach this to the Churches. Why are women to have Long Hair and men not to? This subject, it seems to be, UPCI/UPC's trademark and it shouldn't be. Again why did Paul teach this?
I did cover this topic in a 3 part series.
ua-cam.com/video/qmDGTTgAvmY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/FyJhkBP33lo/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/rZYvt9QSy30/v-deo.html
@@ResponsibleFaith From what all is said then it was a, Cultural matter?
Getting "therapy" from wise Godly counsel is good. Going to a secular person "trained" at a college or university is a recipe for disaster. No counsel is better than bad councel. Always thoroughly vet any person you take counsel, or "therapy", from.
I remember Mitchell!
Threats of heaven or hell is ,as it is written , Jesus & two hanging beside him,short faith sermon closest to death of Jesus Christ Holiest of Holy, thieves , I wonder what they stole?👸
I don't see how people can be comfortable just hopping around in their faith and saying Yes this is right..oh wait..no I am going this direction now...oh wait no that's not right..I am going to go this way...that's like a leaf blowing in the wind..no ground to stand on..it's nuts!
I don't see how people can be comfortable judging someone who has experienced spiritual abuse and who is figuring out for themselves what they really do believe. Change can also be a sign of growth. I may not share the same beliefs as Heather and Sterling, but I certainly understand the questions they had and respect their right to arrive at the conclusions they did.
@@ResponsibleFaith just because you don't like what I said..doesn't mean its judgmental..
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit
I feel horrible some of you were abused by people in a church, but GOD ALMIGHTY will never hurt or abuse anyone. He’s an all loving, forgiving, saving God! Leaving truth because people have deeply wounded you is no reason to leave truth.
God will handle all abusers and hypocrites! Don’t lose your soul over ignorant people!
Nobody in this video ever said "GOD ALMIGHTY" abused or hurt them, but when a group of people do, it can sure have an impact. It's no surprise when some of the victims run for the hills. Of course that's usually when the church crowd comes at them with "God will deal with abusers" as if it should just be ignored. I haven't seen God deal with many of them down here on earth (although I do know of one) so I would say it leaves it up to believers to deal with them. They don't.
I'm not sure what the intended tone of your comment was (that's hard to discern online), but it doesn't come across as compassionate, loving or empathetic...it reads as a scold. Your other comment "Another thing... I find it very hard to believe some of what is being said. “ praying to God to kill your husband” ? Come on!!!" reads like an accusation of lying. More of the same; Apostolics blindly protecting the reputation of their churches/ministers at all cost. This seems to be the norm when they hear stories like this...and then they wonder why people want to stay as far away from them as they possibly can. Maybe if you guys focused more on the fruit of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit would soften some of you (since all that tongue talking doesn't seem to be helping).
@Lorri O F Who left truth? Sounds to me like these people left deception and the wife ran into the arms of truth Who is Jesus Himself, not a man-made religion. I pray for the husband in his journey. I deeply pity anyone who thinks a man-made organization is "the truth." You may have little bits of the truth. But Jesus Christ said HE is the Truth.
It must be a full time job keeping the proselytizing comments out. I wonder how many times you have had to delete a variation of this comment: "You're wrong, but we're praying that you come back to the truth. Because, we love you and Jesus does too. Bless your heart." I wonder if it's only ex-Pentecostals who can feel the condescension between the lines.
I get so many I just allow them through and try to address some of them, but the condescension in many of the comments drives me crazy as well!
@@ResponsibleFaith Well, I'll be praying for you. 😂😈
It is wrong here to fail to mention, that there are good Pastor's in the UPC , you can not lump them all together.
So true
The whose who, the pks and the people with money have and whole different set of rules
There is a difference between flesh and spirit even tho church people are saying and doing things that they shouldn’t were all born in sin im sorry for all the offenses you all have experienced but church is not about people but about god🙂
Another thing... I find it very hard to believe some of what is being said. “ praying to God to kill your husband” ? Come on!!!
I responded to this in your other comment, but if people want to hear how the story actually went it starts at the 1:16:00 mark. I don't find it hard to believe at all. I stood in a church where a pastor got up and screamed "If you don't pay your tithes you're going to hell", I also know of pastors who will tell their saints "If you don't give God what belongs to him, he'll get it one way or the other" (meaning your car will break down, or something will come up to bring added expenses to keep you from having that money). These guys get pretty serious and threatening when it comes to those "dolla, dolla bills y'all".
@@ResponsibleFaith Church needs a dollar, dollar is what they need....lol
I see the I left the upc Pentecostal videos are back in trend.what y'all don't realize is just because you left it does not change one so how thing in the word of God .I also notice alot of these videos pop up and the main subject is how badly you got hurt .The Bible clearly says offenses will come.To me no matter what if you obey the word of God he will guide you through it all .too many people are all about a religion and not nearly enough make it all about God.....
People leave churches/groups for various reasons, sometimes because they've been hurt, other times because upon study, they no longer believe the groups teachings to be Biblical. During that process a lot of them do get abused as well. Scripture does say that offenses will come but I find that verse often only get partially quoted and in a dismissive way...almost as a "buck up" sentiment when people talk about abuses and hurts they've faced. That verse was not written to minimize offenses as being no big deal...
Luke 17:1-2
1 Jesus said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks (or offenses) will come, but woe to the one through whom they come!
2 It would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be thrown into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.
I do agree that too many people are all about religion and that's probably why they get so angry when people leave specific groups. I agree that God is the center of our faith and that He's with us through it all.
@@ResponsibleFaith ok but what is the point of all the bashing and making insulting comments? I have seen some bad things but I know of that in every organization. Most time when someone leaves apostolic they will rant thereat of their life.i even seen where someone said I have not experienced anything like you said and told them oh you're still young . Whatever the reason for anyone leaving it still doesn't give any reason as to why you post a million videos against that particular organization unless you're A. attempting to so run others away and B .you're still bitter ..
Just because YOU have a bad experience doesn't mean others will.i can see if you're doing whatever it is you're doing now and just left it at that but no ! Each and every video has WHY I LEFT THE PENTECOSTAL APOSTOLIC UPC!! I I mean come on ...
I'm glad you asked what the point is of posting the videos I do about the "Holiness" type churches since you are obviously missing it. These stories are not for people who are still in and happy (I'm assuming you). They are to bring comfort to the walking wounded out here who have experienced similar things and are trying to heal. They're also to help prepare people who are planning to leave. Trust me, it's no picnic.
Hearing other people share their experiences is very helpful when someone is trying to sort through what they've been through. It's also been therapeutic for the guests to share their story and feel like the difficult things they've been through can bring comfort and support to others...sort of turning their pain into something useful. That is the point. Sharing the specific groups they left in the title helps people find them on UA-cam. Yes, there are problems in other groups...but I can only address what I know. If I never mentioned the UPCI, how in the world would ex UPCI people find me? I left over 17 years ago and never really talked about it much until the last year when I realized there were so many of us, that components of our stories were so similar and that maybe my journey could help people who are in the middle of the process...that is what prompted this channel. If you recall, I told the young lady who is still young that I hope she never experiences any abuse. I meant it.
I love your channel.
Glad you enjoy it!
@@ResponsibleFaith I’ve never been UPC or anything like that but my feet had almost slipped till I found channels like yours.
They just needed to go somewhere else, that sounds absurd even for a UPCI church.
...unfortunately, not as absurd as you might think. This channel has given me in the opportunity to hear from many UPC people all over North America (even some pastors who are planning to leave), and things within many UPC churches are more extreme than I originally thought.
@@ResponsibleFaith If anything maybe will help enlighten people to find a healthy UPC church. The stuff these two describe gives you an icky feeling. I went to two different UPC churches in SoCal and the pastors were very nice, nothing like this, no spiritual abuse. I wonder if it's a regional thing as well.
I doubt it, I'm from Canada and have observed some very abusive controlling pastors here, as well as hearing from people all over the US and even abroad with stories that leave me shaking my head.
@@CC-vw1nd i went to a UPC for 16 years and never thought about being abused but after finding these videos i am seeing where our church was abusive or harsh or judgmental to a degree. The one my daughter was in ask her to sign a contract to sing on platform, of which there is no chapter and verse for that, which she opted out on signing. She didnt see it either.
@@CC-vw1nd it can be regional, Cali was very very bad in my experience but Georgia was also a bad experience to me. I’d say out of all the states I’ve lived in only one church in Ohio and one in TN has been more healthy. The healthiest I’ve found is actually a Pentecostal/non denominational style (not upci) in a small KY town when visiting my bf and his family.
Tim downs? Wow. He is remarried.. arrogant he is
Emailed you
Shame on all of you that put down any Church
What are you saying; that man-made religious organizations have complete impunity when it comes to the abuse and mistreat of saints, and that victims must remain silent simply because the organizations are churches? I disagree 100%! It would be VERY dangerous to offer churches this exemption. Right is right, wrong is wrong, and nothing ever gets fixed or made right unless it gets brought to light. Spiritual abuse is a problem in Christianity that needs to be addressed.
Jesus did it all,He said it is finished.all we have to. Do is believe we are saved by faith,grace,perfect love cast out all fear 🙏🏻 Jesus said we will know them by there love.
Meanest is far from loving you sister or brother.
Truly guys you did the right thing by leaving.Jesus looks at your ❤️ not the out side clothing hair jewelry if you stay Ed you would have drank false spirit ual Kool Ade.
Atheist???? 😢
Q hello Deanna Joel I see that smug look on your face the more people you have on your show the hotter it's getting one of these days you will come to a reality if you want to backslide and people on backslide just go on your way merrily until you faced the last breath then he will sit in when you do this you're turning people into back Fighters and it's just going to get hotter and hotter and hotter I look at your into your eyes and Wendy's day is going to wipe that little smug smile off your face for eternity and all the people that want to leave the UPC just go your Merry way back flight and enjoy life as long as you can because the reality is going to sit in when you enjoy your last breath that you have been deceived and let yourself be deceived I have been in this way for 56 years and I have never experienced experience anything greater I cherish my salvation I love the standards of the church
Love your channel. I emailed you a while back o hope I sent it to the correct email address.
I'm a bit behind on my responses right now, but if you don't hear from me within a week or so...you may have sent it to a wrong address.
I hate that your are all hurt and bitter, but you are all just as bad as those in the UPC you are talking about, I have not heard any of you say that you forgive those that you attribute your trauma . Sexual abuse is all denominations. Facts and opinion are to different things. Before you accuse, produce the evidence, other wise it's hear say.
SHUT UP ALREADY.
you are righet