Bless The Maker and his factories. Bless the constructions and logistics. May his passage cleanse the Dark Fog. May he keep the blueprints for his people.
All those resources lying on the ground when you showed dismantling a base in the intro bit have me speed dialling my therapist. I love this game so much.
Is there any advantage at all to still using sorters with boxes at once you have splitters? The power savings alone seems to be a great reason to stop using sorters.
Crazy how different playstyles can be. I also made a "sustainable" first base but I did it with an oil bus. Basically, had a line of refineries across a tropic where all the crude oil went. Then from north to south made a bus with refined oil, hydrogen and energetic graphite. Afterwards I added water, titanium ingot, stone and a bunch of the secondary products like plastic, sulphuric acid. From that bus you can build a crazy number of different products for all the science types and you can scale everything up super easy. Just add refineries to the line whenever you need more stuff. Then once the oil and energetic graphite on the starter planet start running out, just place an ILS at the start which provides it from elsewhere and the factory keeps chugging along the entire game, producing all the sciences.
17:20 you should put a hat on the boxes so you can access the boxes from the planetary view like people used to do with PLS and ILS before fidget spinners were introduced.
" hat on the box " hahaha I like it. Honestly by the time those become available I rarely access the boxes anymore (outside of the mall of course, where this would make sense but the bots themselves kinda remove the need)
@@TheDutchActuary I mean i wouldn't put hats on any intermediary products if i wouldn't intend to have it shipped. Buildings on the other hand don't need fidget spinners at the start. you just don't have enough logistics slots. you may find value in that before you get around putting ILS for hubs. since you can access ILS and PLS all over the planet and can't do the same with boxes (without hats). At this point you may well be beyond that point of your playthrough, but doing that between hats and ILS feels like the logical step. before exporting virtually everything anyways and having an abundance of resources to go around. Imma lazy bastard that can't be asked walking to my mall if i can help it. I even have a blueprint that puts down 12 power pole to charge me up quickly if i need it.
Ironically these kinds of lines with "endless" expansion space in one direction is kind of how I started with DSP though before there were logistics bots (also how I do Space Exploration in Factorio with endless rows of machines heading away from the main bus)- and then I moved on to the modules with planetary and interplanetary logistics stations in my second game after watching your videos. Optimizing the modules - and then making more advanced modules that crafted from more and more basic ingredients became my endgame.
I like the progress from the master build on the starting planet but great information on planning and expand abilities for design. Incorporating them into when moving to the drone production planet
I like the goals. Not having a "starter base" that gets ignored or removed later will make things harder, but does make the transition to later game much nicer.
So a backpressure-routing system for the design. That's a classic (and very good) solution for the design of queuing networks. DSP (and similar games) makes it pretty easy, no need to calculate the Lyapunov function, drift, etc, like you would do when designing a "real" distributed system. As you've observed bots in these games make the connections between nodes easy, but remove backpressure and thus make throughput maximization difficult. Belts have the opposite tradeoff.
All right, I'm going to give this build order a try. I always seem to stall out at about the time I need to get ILS and my production just turns in to a mess of spaghetti belts!
I'm just finishing up my 5th or 6th successful playthrough, and this is how I started my early game, just a simple, easy layout (actually a modified version of Nilhaus's, but similar in functionality) for my jump base. My mid game, I'm pretty sure, was much different than yours will be, as this was my first serious attempt at getting some of the harder achievements, such as "Where No Coal Has Gone Before" and "Before Our Time", and this was the perfect starting system with plural satellites on my gas giant and a nearby star system only 2 lightyears away. I really love this game. Right now, I'm building modular factories with 2 design philosophies employed: Max 1 ILS for inputs and outputs where possible, with the exception of proliferators (I have an ILS at each polar region for feeding lenses to receivers, I just call proliferators to one and feed them to a distributor), and fully maximize the capacity of all blue belts (7200 cargo/min for all inputs and outputs). This has produced compact, efficient, completely modular and expandable factories, and when I'm done I'm going to start reverse engineering them down to yellow belts and sorters in sizes that you can place down with early Mass Construction levels. I just finished my most complicated build, deuterium fractionation, and I found that a belt for inputs (hydrogen) took way too long to ramp the facility up, so I broke the first "rule" and set up dedicated ILSs just for bringing in and proliferating hydrogen, which then goes to distributors. That meant that the single ILS that I was going to use for the entire factory could be used solely for deuterium. Several redesigns later, and I have an entire folder for deuterium fractionation in my blueprints, from a single fractionator on a loop with a couple of tanks and some pilers, to an entire planet spanning facility capable of producing 86,400 deuterium a minute with a little room left to grow. I didn't really want to use distributors, as they're on the expensive side at the scale I needed (14 processors per distributor, including the drones), where the most expensive thing a blue belt uses is graphene, but it made the whole build so much simpler that I think it was worth it, even if I did have to go through and redesign the entire thing.
It is nice to see you embrace the lazy Zen way of doing things. Also how belts are King when it comes to making certain that everything gets at least some of what it needs. An interesting thought comes to mind: is there any point to doing more than the minimal mall on the jumpstart planet? It seems logical to shift all production of various buildings to the first mall planet, so completely bypassing the production of Logistics/PLS/ILS on the jumpstart planet might be the way to go. Avoid pointless duplication and import them to where they are needed.
I got interested and made a test with a new random seed: 95603661-64-A10 Planet names/resources: * Azha I, lava: Iron 22m, Copper 20m, Silicon 1m, Titanium 13m, Stone 1.6m, Coal 360k, construction area: 88%, wind: 70%, solar: 133% * Azha II, tidal locked crystal desert: Iron 24m, Copper 1.7m, Titanium: 2m, Coal 850k, construction area: 99%, wind: 150%, solar: 111% * Azha III, gas giant * Azha IV, jumpstart planet: Iron 3m, Copper 1.7m, Stone 4m, Coal 10m, construction area: 56%, wind: 100%, solar: 92% Part of the joy with this game is getting slightly boned by your starter seed LOL. :) Criterion used for the test: The jumpstart planet would *only* be set up with the base smelting (iron, copper, stone bricks, glass, steel, energetic graphite) and what is needed for the basic buildings and sciences (circuit boards, gears, magnetic coils, hydrogen, refined oil). All buildings required (not very many) to be hand-crafted until setting up a mall on the next/mall planet. All sciences to be drip-fed at 1 per second. Process after the jumpstart planet was running satisfactorily with blue and red science: Since Azha II is lacking silicon and stone, I went for Azha I for those basics: it became my mall planet. A little less convenient with all the lava, however not really bad. Built the full smelting/assembling/mall setup there. Once starting to need graphene: back to the jumpstart planet to make sulphuric acid, graphene, and plastic/organic crystals/diamonds for yellow science. Overall: It is incredibly liberating to not have to worry about all that water on the jumpstart planet. I never felt restricted and never made one foundation. By concentrating solely on science it made getting to blue and then red science quite rapid. Even yellow was much faster than I normally do it. Both planets were run on wind power. The only solar array placed down was the one gained upon research. Ditto for the only thermal power station, which took fuel from a passing belt of coal. Hindsight/Thoughts: It would have made more sense to go to Azha II for that combination of 99% construction area and 150% wind. The tidal locking would make solar incredibly efficient. It would not be a huge hassle to bring in processors and solar panels from Azha I. Bring the stone bricks and sulphuric acid in from the jumpstart planet. Manually to kickstart, then via ILS. Water is used for organic crystal on the jumpstar planet, and sulphuric acid and titanium glass (export once needed). I'm going to have to try this as a playthrough now.
Love me some DSP. Interesting approach. Will be curious how this looks once resources run out in veins. I'm assuming moving ore around at that point once drones and bots are opened up.
These things would be helpful with blueprints 1. tell how big the blueprint is: 90x40 2. tell if the layout is going to be expanded in a future video (adding ILS later) I'm trying to do the Environmentalist achievement, so final blueprint size is helpful to know
Im going to guess the best way is to setup a pipeline into a large warehouse array so you can let it run all night and stack up and then come back and be ready to build the next set of production. I wonder what the best bottlenecks to build from day to day would be. To minimize the amount of time
Setting up large warehouses of items is generally not really efficient. It doesn't take too long to produce most things, and unless you messed up the balance somewhere you should never really have to ' wait ' for items to be produced. The only place where I could see this being somewhat useful, is just after you unlock the ILS and/or start building the advanced miners. Go for dinner and come back to find a few dozen waiting for you, I suppose.
Loved the different approach. This is similar to how I played my first game but I wasn't able to stay focused and it got messy, quick. Are you finding it hard to build it small and focused after so many games of large, complicated builds?
Hey TDA im super glad you started this. Probably do another run myself. Quick question. Your mall is slightly offset by on machine on top vs bottom row. Any particular reason why they are not aligned?
Your previous play through where you utilized modular builds and bots was super inspirational and I believe superior to this build this build a seed based those giant land masses you had very rarely exist in new games and if your build requires you to only play on certain seeds then it's a week build
Haven't played since after proliferation was introduced. Will prob start a new game once the new update is out as can't remember what production is in what system and planet. Other than a spreadsheet any good strats on managing that|?
Naming your planets after what they produce could be an easy way perhaps? I wouldn't recommend trying to rebuild your factories to include proliferation, starting over is probably more fun :)
I guess you start on a large continent, if you don't touch the controls on the intro. But you can land any where, unless they removed the controls in the intro with an update
The nightmare part is half the fun. I restarted my first game AT LEAST 12 times (or more) before even getting to yellow science, just because I felt I could do better. That might not be for everyone of course, but try it!
That probably makes more sense honestly, but when you're the type that lies awake thinking 'wait, what if I do this...' what are you going to do? :D@@indiomie
They slow down over time (you can see this when you click on the oil drill). So they don't technically ' run out' but you'll need to add new sources to compensate for the loss in raw resources coming in.
Mixing it up for once was a lot of fun and comes highly recommend! Speaking of which - hit the subscribe button even if you normally don't! :)
Oo a series literally made for me!
Jeff, we agreed we would pretend it was for everyone!@@jeffstaples347
I was trying to take a nap, and saw your video. Now I'm gonna get back into DSP and probably not sleep for 3 days. So.. thanks?
Whoops!
Bless The Maker and his factories.
Bless the constructions and logistics.
May his passage cleanse the Dark Fog.
May he keep the blueprints for his people.
Back to Dyson Sphere, love it ! Interesting approach, going to be interesting if it scales as intended.
All those resources lying on the ground when you showed dismantling a base in the intro bit have me speed dialling my therapist.
I love this game so much.
Thanks, there goes my coffee lol :D
You could put your boxes on top of a splitter, and then you don't need sorters, just run the line in and out.
I didn't know that. God am I happy to find out.
Is there any advantage at all to still using sorters with boxes at once you have splitters? The power savings alone seems to be a great reason to stop using sorters.
@@BeinDreki sometimes theres belts on the way so sorters can put further away. Not often though
I just started playing DSP about 3 weeks ago! This series is perfect timing!!
Crazy how different playstyles can be. I also made a "sustainable" first base but I did it with an oil bus.
Basically, had a line of refineries across a tropic where all the crude oil went. Then from north to south made a bus with refined oil, hydrogen and energetic graphite. Afterwards I added water, titanium ingot, stone and a bunch of the secondary products like plastic, sulphuric acid. From that bus you can build a crazy number of different products for all the science types and you can scale everything up super easy. Just add refineries to the line whenever you need more stuff.
Then once the oil and energetic graphite on the starter planet start running out, just place an ILS at the start which provides it from elsewhere and the factory keeps chugging along the entire game, producing all the sciences.
Very similar to this approach! Honestly playing around with several different approaches is half the fun of this game :D
17:20 you should put a hat on the boxes so you can access the boxes from the planetary view like people used to do with PLS and ILS before fidget spinners were introduced.
" hat on the box " hahaha I like it. Honestly by the time those become available I rarely access the boxes anymore (outside of the mall of course, where this would make sense but the bots themselves kinda remove the need)
@@TheDutchActuary I mean i wouldn't put hats on any intermediary products if i wouldn't intend to have it shipped. Buildings on the other hand don't need fidget spinners at the start. you just don't have enough logistics slots. you may find value in that before you get around putting ILS for hubs. since you can access ILS and PLS all over the planet and can't do the same with boxes (without hats).
At this point you may well be beyond that point of your playthrough, but doing that between hats and ILS feels like the logical step. before exporting virtually everything anyways and having an abundance of resources to go around.
Imma lazy bastard that can't be asked walking to my mall if i can help it.
I even have a blueprint that puts down 12 power pole to charge me up quickly if i need it.
Ironically these kinds of lines with "endless" expansion space in one direction is kind of how I started with DSP though before there were logistics bots (also how I do Space Exploration in Factorio with endless rows of machines heading away from the main bus)- and then I moved on to the modules with planetary and interplanetary logistics stations in my second game after watching your videos.
Optimizing the modules - and then making more advanced modules that crafted from more and more basic ingredients became my endgame.
I like the progress from the master build on the starting planet but great information on planning and expand abilities for design. Incorporating them into when moving to the drone production planet
Pretty cool! I just stumbled onto your channel, and I really like this!
This is fantastic Dutch. Thank you so much for this.
I like the goals. Not having a "starter base" that gets ignored or removed later will make things harder, but does make the transition to later game much nicer.
So a backpressure-routing system for the design. That's a classic (and very good) solution for the design of queuing networks. DSP (and similar games) makes it pretty easy, no need to calculate the Lyapunov function, drift, etc, like you would do when designing a "real" distributed system. As you've observed bots in these games make the connections between nodes easy, but remove backpressure and thus make throughput maximization difficult. Belts have the opposite tradeoff.
@@PeregrineBFI like your funny words, techno man
Your masterclass was nice but this shit is what I really needed. Nice.
Really looking forward to this series
All right, I'm going to give this build order a try. I always seem to stall out at about the time I need to get ILS and my production just turns in to a mess of spaghetti belts!
I'm just finishing up my 5th or 6th successful playthrough, and this is how I started my early game, just a simple, easy layout (actually a modified version of Nilhaus's, but similar in functionality) for my jump base. My mid game, I'm pretty sure, was much different than yours will be, as this was my first serious attempt at getting some of the harder achievements, such as "Where No Coal Has Gone Before" and "Before Our Time", and this was the perfect starting system with plural satellites on my gas giant and a nearby star system only 2 lightyears away.
I really love this game. Right now, I'm building modular factories with 2 design philosophies employed: Max 1 ILS for inputs and outputs where possible, with the exception of proliferators (I have an ILS at each polar region for feeding lenses to receivers, I just call proliferators to one and feed them to a distributor), and fully maximize the capacity of all blue belts (7200 cargo/min for all inputs and outputs). This has produced compact, efficient, completely modular and expandable factories, and when I'm done I'm going to start reverse engineering them down to yellow belts and sorters in sizes that you can place down with early Mass Construction levels.
I just finished my most complicated build, deuterium fractionation, and I found that a belt for inputs (hydrogen) took way too long to ramp the facility up, so I broke the first "rule" and set up dedicated ILSs just for bringing in and proliferating hydrogen, which then goes to distributors. That meant that the single ILS that I was going to use for the entire factory could be used solely for deuterium. Several redesigns later, and I have an entire folder for deuterium fractionation in my blueprints, from a single fractionator on a loop with a couple of tanks and some pilers, to an entire planet spanning facility capable of producing 86,400 deuterium a minute with a little room left to grow. I didn't really want to use distributors, as they're on the expensive side at the scale I needed (14 processors per distributor, including the drones), where the most expensive thing a blue belt uses is graphene, but it made the whole build so much simpler that I think it was worth it, even if I did have to go through and redesign the entire thing.
86,400 deuterium per minute? Holy cow! Hows your FPS doing?
@@TheDutchActuary In the area of 10-15. My computer is not super happy with me.
Ouch!@@dlaw1954
It is nice to see you embrace the lazy Zen way of doing things. Also how belts are King when it comes to making certain that everything gets at least some of what it needs.
An interesting thought comes to mind: is there any point to doing more than the minimal mall on the jumpstart planet? It seems logical to shift all production of various buildings to the first mall planet, so completely bypassing the production of Logistics/PLS/ILS on the jumpstart planet might be the way to go. Avoid pointless duplication and import them to where they are needed.
I think you're on to something :) Make sure you watch episode 2 next week!
I got interested and made a test with a new random seed: 95603661-64-A10
Planet names/resources:
* Azha I, lava: Iron 22m, Copper 20m, Silicon 1m, Titanium 13m, Stone 1.6m, Coal 360k, construction area: 88%, wind: 70%, solar: 133%
* Azha II, tidal locked crystal desert: Iron 24m, Copper 1.7m, Titanium: 2m, Coal 850k, construction area: 99%, wind: 150%, solar: 111%
* Azha III, gas giant
* Azha IV, jumpstart planet: Iron 3m, Copper 1.7m, Stone 4m, Coal 10m, construction area: 56%, wind: 100%, solar: 92%
Part of the joy with this game is getting slightly boned by your starter seed LOL. :)
Criterion used for the test:
The jumpstart planet would *only* be set up with the base smelting (iron, copper, stone bricks, glass, steel, energetic graphite) and what is needed for the basic buildings and sciences (circuit boards, gears, magnetic coils, hydrogen, refined oil). All buildings required (not very many) to be hand-crafted until setting up a mall on the next/mall planet. All sciences to be drip-fed at 1 per second.
Process after the jumpstart planet was running satisfactorily with blue and red science:
Since Azha II is lacking silicon and stone, I went for Azha I for those basics: it became my mall planet. A little less convenient with all the lava, however not really bad. Built the full smelting/assembling/mall setup there.
Once starting to need graphene: back to the jumpstart planet to make sulphuric acid, graphene, and plastic/organic crystals/diamonds for yellow science.
Overall:
It is incredibly liberating to not have to worry about all that water on the jumpstart planet. I never felt restricted and never made one foundation. By concentrating solely on science it made getting to blue and then red science quite rapid. Even yellow was much faster than I normally do it.
Both planets were run on wind power. The only solar array placed down was the one gained upon research. Ditto for the only thermal power station, which took fuel from a passing belt of coal.
Hindsight/Thoughts:
It would have made more sense to go to Azha II for that combination of 99% construction area and 150% wind. The tidal locking would make solar incredibly efficient.
It would not be a huge hassle to bring in processors and solar panels from Azha I. Bring the stone bricks and sulphuric acid in from the jumpstart planet. Manually to kickstart, then via ILS.
Water is used for organic crystal on the jumpstar planet, and sulphuric acid and titanium glass (export once needed).
I'm going to have to try this as a playthrough now.
watching this while playing NFS heat with no plans of playing DSP till i get another week break from school
You just so neat man!! f love it
Thank you,,,
Love me some DSP. Interesting approach. Will be curious how this looks once resources run out in veins. I'm assuming moving ore around at that point once drones and bots are opened up.
Welcome back to DSP TDA
These things would be helpful with blueprints
1. tell how big the blueprint is: 90x40
2. tell if the layout is going to be expanded in a future video (adding ILS later)
I'm trying to do the Environmentalist achievement, so final blueprint size is helpful to know
Wake up, we have new DSP content!
Im going to guess the best way is to setup a pipeline into a large warehouse array so you can let it run all night and stack up and then come back and be ready to build the next set of production.
I wonder what the best bottlenecks to build from day to day would be. To minimize the amount of time
Setting up large warehouses of items is generally not really efficient. It doesn't take too long to produce most things, and unless you messed up the balance somewhere you should never really have to ' wait ' for items to be produced.
The only place where I could see this being somewhat useful, is just after you unlock the ILS and/or start building the advanced miners. Go for dinner and come back to find a few dozen waiting for you, I suppose.
Loved the different approach. This is similar to how I played my first game but I wasn't able to stay focused and it got messy, quick. Are you finding it hard to build it small and focused after so many games of large, complicated builds?
Considering I just did a rewind of 4 hours worth of work on episode 2 because I went way too big and complicated too fast.... I'd say yes :)
Hey TDA im super glad you started this. Probably do another run myself. Quick question. Your mall is slightly offset by on machine on top vs bottom row. Any particular reason why they are not aligned?
Huh. I actually hadn't noticed that! I think I removed one foundation assembler at some point and never realigned the rest. Nice catch!
I. NEED. MORE.
Your previous play through where you utilized modular builds and bots was super inspirational and I believe superior to this build this build a seed based those giant land masses you had very rarely exist in new games and if your build requires you to only play on certain seeds then it's a week build
@ 15:02 you are standing on a belt that isnt connected. just putting this here in case you havent noticed yet :)
Thanks! Caught it later!
Here I am reviewing for VEE while also watching this video
Haven't played since after proliferation was introduced. Will prob start a new game once the new update is out as can't remember what production is in what system and planet. Other than a spreadsheet any good strats on managing that|?
Naming your planets after what they produce could be an easy way perhaps? I wouldn't recommend trying to rebuild your factories to include proliferation, starting over is probably more fun :)
The redesign step is one of the worst stages of my playthroughs. I look forward to its completion, but I hate having to actually do it.
I guess you start on a large continent, if you don't touch the controls on the intro. But you can land any where, unless they removed the controls in the intro with an update
I haven't tested it for a while, but i'm 95% sure the controls don't actually work during the intro (and never have?)
👍
Still no combat upgrade? 😄
It's coming. December! They posted an update on that. the "P" in DSP is for patience 😉😉
@@AdamSaxton cool thanks 👍
Soon! This is the warm up :)
@@TheDutchActuary cool 😎
i have never player a factory game and want to try this game because it looks really cool but a complete nightmare XD
The nightmare part is half the fun. I restarted my first game AT LEAST 12 times (or more) before even getting to yellow science, just because I felt I could do better.
That might not be for everyone of course, but try it!
@@TheDutchActuary okay now this made me feel much better for restarting my games. I thought people just... went with it.
That probably makes more sense honestly, but when you're the type that lies awake thinking 'wait, what if I do this...' what are you going to do? :D@@indiomie
Do the oil wells actually run out? I've never had one run out. That seed looks great going to try it out today.
They slow down over time (you can see this when you click on the oil drill). So they don't technically ' run out' but you'll need to add new sources to compensate for the loss in raw resources coming in.
Ok yes, I know they will slow down I thought about it later and figured that's what you meant. Thanks.
@@TheDutchActuary
You should really do a new long play full series... no video cuts
i forget who but someone once said "i like to hire lazy people to do a job because lazy people will find the easiest way to get it done"
Don't tell my boss, he still thinks i'm insanely busy.
I believe it was Henry Ford
First!